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Chicago school forfeits football game because of Confederate flag display

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Nambe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 11:50 PM
Original message
Chicago school forfeits football game because of Confederate flag display
STRONGHURST, Ill. (AP)


A Chicago charter school with an overwhelmingly black student body forfeited a scheduled football game because the host team has a Rebel mascot who carries a Confederate flag. Now the state's high school association says it will investigate.

The team from the Longwood Campus of Chicago International Charter School was scheduled to play Saturday at Southern High School in the western Illinois town of Stronghurst.

But Longwood coach and athletic director Bill Ham said Southern coach Scott Dillard called Tuesday and asked if his school's Confederate flag ritual would bother the Longwood players, who are from Chicago's South Side. ---

Ham said Dillard told him later that the flag would be excluded from the game, but he said he and Longwood Director of Schools Robert Lang decided to forfeit anyway to make sure that there were no confrontations between fans of the two teams. ---

Ride Dont Drive Its Global Cool
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ginantonic40 Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. WTF?
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous.
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. What's ridiculous? That some people stood on principle and opposed...
What's ridiculous? That some people stood on principle and opposed
the "traitors' and slavers' flag"?

Atlant
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Living down south
You get used to seeing this flag. Lots of people, not just down here but everywhere in the U.S., fly that flag as a way of telling the federal government to shove it.

After a while, you get used to it.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I'm in Chicago and I only see it down south and in rural areas.
The people in my community would be shocked to see it and would view it as a racist symbol.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. I Don't.
That's what the Gadsden Flag is for.
The "Stars and Bars" are so popular because "them uppity niggers don' like it" and that's all there is to it.

Farting in the general direction of the Fed has zilch to do with it.
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Melsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Would love to see
a high school with the Gasden flag as their mascot. That's the one with the snake that says DON'T TREAD ON ME.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. I live in the Deep South
and I do see it everywhere also, but my take on why it is displayed is different from yours. When I see it I immediately think the person displaying it is racist, if it were a simply a way to show disenchantment with government then African- Americans would display it also and that never happens. Yes, I can and do live with it, but it is a racist symbol.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. never mind
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 11:48 AM by salin
I had to reread the story - who brought the issue up (the team with the flag) and who ultimately forfeited (the chicago team).
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. they fly this vile flag because they are racist not because

they want to tell the gov. to shove it.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yep....my alma mater still fly 'em proud too.....*gag*
:evilfrown:

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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Forgive me... but just a year ago (or was it to)
wasn't there a bruhaha in a catholic school atheletic league in Chicago about white schools being afraid of playing at (or having fans come to their school)?

Note that it is the represenative from the white school with the flag that a) calls to ask if the charter school (urban) would have problems, then b) says they won't do their regular ceremonies (wtf are those?), the c) calls again and forfeits "just in case" there are problems over the schools symbols.

Could it be the same thing as the bottom line of the Catholic school bruhaha - that the school is harboring stereotypical fears and is working for an excuse to avoid the game?

Or, on the otherhand - could it be that someone is recognizing that the non-racist symbol of southern heritage could be interpreted by others as a racist symbol of slavery and recognizes that perception by the receiver is as legitimate as perception of the holder - even if the perceptions vary?

From either direction (the latter being much more charitable), the story is noteworthy.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Symbols are mutable.
That's what makes 'em symbols. Folks could argue until they're blue in the face that the swastika is an ancient and respected symbol, with a history that dwarfs WW2. Nonetheless, I doubt many would see it as other than a symbol of hatred -- even though (assumedly) the vast majority of Germans really didn't think so at the time.

Whether principled 'rebels' like it or not, the confederate "X" has been adopted by racist groups. The symbol is thereby mutated by those attitudes and prejudices. (At one time, the KKK and the 'burning cross' was viewed positively by most. Watch "Birth of a Nation".)
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CShine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. That's funny.
This kind of thing would never happen down where I come from in Alabama. Wanna see some publicly displayed Confederate flags. Just drop in on my hometown. I can show you plenty. Nobody forfeits football games over any of that down here.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Just a matter of time...
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Do you find that acceptable?
If so, could you explain why?
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Hi CShine,
The overwhelming majority of people in Chicago, be they black, white, or other, would not want to see the Confederate flag anywhere.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. That is only because they dont have the power
to forfeit the games because of it. There is no doubt that it is a racist symbol and the fact that African-Americans in Alabama have to endure that sort of disrespect by the white community is a sad commentary about Alabama indeed. The fact that the Africian-American community cant prevent the use of this horrific symbol should not imply that they support its use.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. Reality
That banner is an emblem of our shameful American past and belongs on the tombs of fallen Confederate soldiers, gathering dust amongst the dead.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Along with hooded robes
and lawn jockeys.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's not just racist, it's treasonous n/t
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. that's a very good point
If we're going to talk symbolism, how do conservatives justify the glorification of secession, especially when patriotism is so big these days?
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. I agree...
And I have to wonder why a school in Illinois of all places -- the "Land of Lincoln" -- would have as its mascot a confederate holding a rebel flag. This is disgraceful!!!!! Do you think any schools in the South might have a black federal soldier waving Old Glory as their mascot? I think not.

Shameful, racist and disgraceful. This school ought to be ASHAMED.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. REALITY: The *SONS* of Confederate Veterans are ALIVE but not well
.....in my community...they march to City Hall every chance they get to protest the Confederate flag being taken down...which was only a few short years ago....my high school are the Mighty West Monroe Rebels....there is a flag painted on the water tower...and it's customary to drive around the day of games with as many flags flyin' outta yer vehicle...and carried to games and waved proudly :puke:

....I am so ashamed to live in this cesspool of ignorance and hate...but but that's STILL THE REALITY :evilfrown: Sad but true :cry:
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NickDanger Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Ignorant people are everywhere
My hometown in NE Wisconsin has its version of Georgia Redneck.
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FireHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. You can hardly blame them.
The Confederate flag stands for slavery in all it's forms. There is no "higher" element to it. Flying that ugly thing is the same thing as the KKK and their robes. There IS no difference between the two.

I should know. I live (now) down South. I know how that flag is viewed--and slavery is the #2 link in it's long, long list of disgusting attributes.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. They should just went in there and kicked their ass in football
strong, quiet, and full of pride, they should have just left it all out there on the field. teach 'em a lesson and some respect....
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Atlant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. There may have been genuine concern that they would have...
Given that the football teams are teenage boys, there may have been
genuine concern that they would have kicked more than just the
oppositions' asses and may have used methods other than moving the
football around the field tin order to do it.

That is, the adults may have concluded the kids (on either/both
sides) might become violent if provoked.

Atlant
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Except the other coach - forfeited the game - he didn't want
the kids from Chicago to come in and beat his kids on the field.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Never mind - I misread the story
The coach from the flag's team raised the issue - then in response after talking with the students, the chicago team forfeited.

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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. Here's Another Reason...
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 03:49 PM by theHandpuppet
...that Confederate Battle Flags have no place in our schools, no more than Nazi swastikas, nor should the symbolism be trivialized.

Fort Pillow and the Confederate Battle Flag: Why this flag is a shameful symbol of RACISM! Here's an excerpt from an article to be found at: http://www.tnstate.edu/library/digital/BlacKs.htm

In the West Tennessee area, the USCT (United States Colored Troops) fought in the battles of Moscow, Brice's Crossroads, Memphis, Tupelo, and the Fort Pillow Massacre. At Fort Pillow (April of 1864), Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest and his larger army massacred black soldiers and black families who sought to escape or surrender. Forrest's racially motivated Confederate troops yelled and waved their pro-slavery symbol (the Confederate battle flag) and swore to give "no quarter" to former slaves who joined the Union army. After Fort Pillow, the Memphis USCT wore medal badges defiantly inscribed with the words, "Remember Fort Pillow". (Note: Nathan Bedford Forrest was the founder of the KKK!) -- poster

Tell me why ANY school would have a rebel soldier and the Confederate battle flag as their damn mascot! May I suggest some alternatives if a school wishes to adopt a Civil War soldier and flag as a "mascot":



or
http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/sections/hs/fisher/black-...


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