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San Francisco's "religious left" supports gay marriage bill

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:09 PM
Original message
San Francisco's "religious left" supports gay marriage bill
http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=14548&sd=12/09/...

Leaders of what openly gay California assemblyman Mark Leno affectionately described as San Francisco's "religious left" lined up on Tuesday to declare support for a bill he authored that would allow same-sex couples to get married in California, arguing that the measure was a logical extension of the principle mandating separation of church and state. Flanking Leno in the sanctuary of Glide Memorial United Methodist Church, clergy representing Baptist, United Church of Christ, Metropolitan Community Church, and Unitarian congregations said the bill is consistent with Christian teachings because it promotes equality for gays and lesbians.


go Mark go!
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don;t say Gay Marriage
say Gay Marriage Benefits
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Why?
...
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Because
it takes what people are against "Gay Marriage" and what people think it is.. forcing church to hold gay weddings and turns it into what it really is about.. the benefits that gay marriage would provide to stable relationships.
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Then it would be better to term it...
...civil marriage. If you still include the term gay marriage in it, then you are still gonna turn off the masses.
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. True
but using "Gay Marriage benefits" takes the phrase away from the right.
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. No it doesnt at all!
The religious right has a problem with the term "gay marriage." By using the term "gay marriage benefits" you can bet your last buck that they will have a problem with it.

If the left wants to frame this issue then they need to take away gay, and marriage in the same sentence. Civil marriage which is exactly what it would be is a far better option. And an option which would work with both the religious right, and the LGBT community.
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JusticeForAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. This does not fly
Anytime you use the words "gay" and "benefits" in the same sentence you will have right wing freaks screaming "Special Rights!"

Universal Marriage seems like a better suggestion that someone offered below.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Don't say "Gay Marriage Benefits" or anything else with "Gay" in it
Say "Universal Marriage Benefits"

The republicans have "gay" on *their* agenda. Repeating the word, even to defend it simply keeps their agenda on the table.

Make it *our* agenda ...... Universal Marriage Benefits.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. What about Methodist Lesbian Clergy?
I think that one went thumbs down in the Methodist Church.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Actually United Methodists have lots of gay clergy and bishops.
I just found this out. As a denomination, they are perhaps the most liberal of those related to the old line Protestant order (e.g. as opposed to Unitarian and New Age churches).

Turns out the reason for the trial and defrocking was marriage, not being gay. Single persons--hetero or homosexual--who are ordained in that sect must vow to remain celibate. That's the rule that she broke.

Who knew?
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I dated an out Lesbian Episcopalian Priest once...
At least it appears Episcopals have a leg up on Methodists.
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mslux Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Left Orthodox Against Marriage
Again I will state: The State has no business being involved in marriage. That is a religious matter.

Three years separated our religious then civil "marriage." The civil was for the same reasons gays want the right to marry: legal, financial, and insurance benefits.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Glide is the one...
church I might actually attend here in SF.

It literally rocks! :)
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Glide is super! Cecil Williams is awsome ... and he gives good hugs.
I would go there occasionally when I lived in Silicon Valley ... taking an hour to get up to the city. I was never able to get through a service without goosebumps and tears. It's really neat. I aslo never left after the service without saying thanks to Cecil on the way out, always with a hug. (Hugs are good for human beings and other living things.)
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I went there 32 years ago
when I lived in Berkeley for awhile as a kid. Then to my delight Cecil Williams was the speaker at my graduation! Yeah, Im proud of that church alright!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. wooo--hooo!
san francisco rocks!
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. See, here's the conflict I have with this...
...we complain when the Church or Christian values are forced onto us by the "Evangelicals" or "Neo-cons", but yet we smugly demand they give in to our wishes and recognize gay marriage. If the Catholic Church, or any other church for that matter won't sanction Gay Marriage, then fine, no gay marriage. But that should in no way stop Civil Unions from being recognized by our government.
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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Not the same at all. Churches don't have to marry gay people
and i don't want to force them to either.

That's called 'choice.' Right Wingers don't want you to choose you values.
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