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Dead voters on rolls, other glitches found in 6 key states -Chicago Trib

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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:59 AM
Original message
Dead voters on rolls, other glitches found in 6 key states -Chicago Trib
Edited on Sat Dec-04-04 09:59 AM by Rose Siding
...A Tribune analysis of voter records suggests that more than 5,000 dead people remained on the rolls on Election Day in New Mexico. The presidential election there was decided by 6,000 votes.

And New Mexico is not alone. The Tribune's review of voter data there and in five other key states--Florida, Iowa, Ohio, Michigan and Minnesota--found widespread flaws in the integrity of voter rolls.

More than 181,000 dead people were listed on the rolls in the six swing states, despite efforts to clean up the country's voting system after the 2000 election.

Thousands more voters were registered to vote in two places, which could have allowed them to cast more than one ballot.

Further, more than 90,000 voters in Ohio cast ballots without a valid presidential choice. Either they decided not to choose a candidate, the machine failed to register their choice, or they mistakenly voted for more than one candidate.

And the FBI is investigating allegations that Republicans in Florida mounted a large-scale campaign to tamper with ballots.
...
Also in Florida, Democratic congressional candidate Jeff Fisher, who was defeated Nov. 2, said he had seen e-mails outlining a Republican plot to steal the presidential election. The plot, he said, involved election workers who created bogus voter registrations. The workers then rigged computers to show those ghost voters had cast ballots for Bush.

The FBI confirmed that Fisher had filed a complaint and that agents were investigating.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0412...
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you, Chicago Trib!
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martinolich Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. ...I have to tell ya...You guys are great!...I'm new here, but
the DU is rapidly becoming my daily oasis of wit and wisdom!

ps. ...This news is especially pertinent to me, since, like Daysand, I'm also a Chicagoan....."Bush..The Man for the Dead" (!)...Love it!!
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Welcome to DU martinolich!
:hi:
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martinolich Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. ..Thanks, Laheina...!...:loveya:
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Welcome to DU!
And keep your eye out for the Chicago DU gatherings. There are quite a few of us.

We tend to have more fun than we really should under the circumstances. :evilgrin:
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martinolich Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Thanks, Bat Boy...and I certainly will!
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prairie Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. The Voting Dead
This really gets better and better. How can we believe Bush belongs in Washing D.C. for anything more than just visiting? Actually, we can't. This country can't be that moronic! At least that's what I keep telling myself.
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canadianbeaver Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
52. Welcome to DU Prairie...
:hi:

good to see ya here!
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Lizzie Borden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. A lot of us can probably remember the 'good old days'
when Mayor Daley of Chicago always turned out the vote for the Dems by allowing the dead to vote, so I'm not surprised this was reported by
the Chicago Trib. It's something they would find very familiar.
(the old mayor Daley-not his son)
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. There's nothing sinister about registered voters who've died.
My stepfather died in December 2002 and continued to be registered. There's not a damned thing that 'automagically' removes someone's name as a registered voter when they die.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. the problem comes in if those people can be shown to have VOTED!
Some more number crunching required here.......

Hi, TN :hi:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well, clearly. But that's NOT what's reported.
All that's been reported is a number of deceased voters still registered, and the numbers reported don't seem at all out of line to me.

It's only speculation, at this point, that one or two scenarios may indicate fraud:
(1) Someone voted under their registration, and/or
(2) They were registered after they died.

While I put absolutely nothing past the corrupt and malicious reichbots, I think it's important to keep focused.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Where was it people said they went to vote
Only to find someone else had voted in their name?
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Good catch!
I remember that too.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Exactly. This could even hurt our cause
If these voters didn't vote, there's nothing to this.

Notice how this story is constructed under the headline. Lots of dead voters are registered, it says, but they didn't vote or anything. Just another glitch in this inefficient old election, along with all of those lesser charges of FBI investigations into a rigged election...

The order and emphasis plays down the more serious charges by lumping them under a more sensational but more empty charge, making all the charges seem like more symptoms of a beauracratic mess, rather than possible vote fraud.

Let me know when the headlines start leading with the more serious charges.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. My husbands name was gone
I looked at the roll book when I signed in. He died in 2003 I thought perhaps it was because I went to Sec of State and notified them of his death.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. That's precisely why most places do a "2 missed elections" purge
so that people who have moved or died are regularly removed. If you are just apathetic for two elections, you must then re-register.

They usually advertise on tv and in the paper about 3 months before an election to "remind" people to check on their status.


I wish that the Democratic Party would designate August as "Voter Registration Check-Up" month.. That would insure that at least once a year, people would be thinking about their voter status, and there might not even NEED to be the frenzy every election..
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. That's why the Repugs went after the Inactive Voter lists
It was easy to steal people identities if you knew they wouldn't be showing up on election day.

An SOE told me that the Repugs were very interested in the Inactive Voter list and Absentee Ballots. Now just put two and two together.

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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I know three people either directly or indirectly who were
made to vote provisionally in Ohio because someone signed on their name for voting.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. You need to contact one of the Democratic groups investigating voter
fraud charges in Ohio. And you need to do it fast. Please take the time to do this to find out what you need to get your 3 friends to do to help get this stuff worked out.
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FoundInTheMaise Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. Can you document this charge and get it out to major media?
If you can prove this was the case then it could be a heroic Dem win!
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent!
Thanks for the link! I wonder how many of those deceased registered cast a vote from the grave? I suspect that is to be investigated. I am very glad to see this being reported in a mainstream paper!
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Ms_Mary Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. I was amazed there was an opinion piece in my local red paper this week.
It's eeking out there a little at a time, mostly due to the "rumors on the internets." I only wish I didn't feel so pessimistic about the liklihod of this bringing about a change.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. will Colin Powell comment?
or is he only concerned about voting integrity in the Ukraine.

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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. "The dead have risen and the're voting Republican !"
~ Lisa, The Simpson's :silly:


:hippie:
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. You beat me to it! "Now it's personal!" n/t
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Must be the Rapture.
Edited on Sat Dec-04-04 12:23 PM by genieroze
It's the night of the living dead rethugnakins.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. Life imitates art.
Again! :crazy:
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. wondering if this story is inoculation to election overturn in ohio
where the challenge was just filed by grassroots contingent headed up by Cliff Arnebeck, National Co-Chair, Alliance for Democracy. The repukes might already know that they have been caught with their hands in the central tabulating cookie jar in Ohio -- Kerry could become our real President -- so, why not cast doubt and aspersions elsewhere to undercut the legitimacy of a REAL potential overturn.

see story on cspan.org - click 2004 vote at left nav bar - click on video clip of Arnebeck -- well worth 1/2 hour
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. BUSH ! The Man for the DEAD !
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. makes sense, He represents a culture of death n/t
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. LMAO!
Now THERE is a campaign slogan for the ages. :evilgrin:
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. Ok LA Times...it's safe to come out of hiding...
and not 6 months from now.
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. I find it ironic it was a CHICAGO paper reporting that.
Given all the crap we catch here in Illinois about the Chicago "Dead vote" and the Chicago machine, it is funny as hell that it was a CHICAGO paper reporting it about someplace else!

Carry on--local amusement moment is over now...

Laura
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. And the FBI investigating this is run by Porter Goss, right?
n/t
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. No porter Goss runs the CIA n/t
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. OMG! Read this excerpt:

And the FBI is investigating allegations that Repuketards in Florida mounted a large-scale campaign to tamper with ballots.




Very, very interesting, indeed!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. 110K extra votes x 31 states "won" = 3.41 million vote mandate
Not all states could deliver 110K extra, but those were assuredly "made up" in Florida, Texas , New Jersey, California, and some other realllly red states that no one would ever question..

THAT was the reason he visited CA and NJ...to "justify" a larger count than would be expected.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. I nominatd this for the homepage.
Not only is this MSM really looking at voting irregularities, it examines them on a national scale and links them together. It's the most coherent piece I've seen, and encompasses FBI in Florida and statistical data from Berkeley in a very readable style.
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. the question is?
Edited on Sat Dec-04-04 01:46 PM by cleofus1
How many of these dead people voted? I assume it is very difficult for a dead person to notify the registrar that they will not be showing up at the booth this year.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. I can hardly be bother to hope
I don't want to be disapointed when nothing is done about these machines.
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IStriker Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
32. Not certain, but I believe there is something in motor-voter that prevents
the local people who maintain the voting rolls from purging dead people, etc. We need to find out and demand that our congress people fix all this stuff that is an invitation to fraud before the next election. I don't think there is any way to find out if dead people voted or how many people voted umpteen times in different counties or different states.
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noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Didn't the Chicago Tribune....
endorse B*sh for president? isn't this curious?
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martinolich Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. ...They did, indeed.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. Best thing I've read all day:
"And the FBI is investigating allegations that Republicans in Florida mounted a large-scale campaign to tamper with ballots."
Please oh please let something come of this.

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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. We''l all own Fisher a huge THANK YOU if they nail the Repukes to the wall
He's been pushing non-stop for investigations since 11-02-04.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. 90,000 people didn't have the President choice registered
thats the deficit Kerry is losing by!!! This is gets uglier and Uglier!!!

Dead Voters voting???

Ghost voters!!! Incredible!!!
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Candide Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
43. Didn't they get this idea
from an episode of the Simpson's ? Truth is stranger than fiction......
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AlexHamilton Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
44. FBI Investigation
Does anyone have any more information on the FBI investigation detailed in this article?

Alex Hamilton
Read my latest article: Support is More Than a Magnetic Yellow Ribbon on Your Car
Visit my website: Impeachment by the People
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. Dead people voting?
isn't this what the repugs (including limpballs) have been accusing us of doing for the last 14 years? The repugs tactic of accusing us of doing the very thing their doing has been amazingly successful.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
47. dead voters and other "GLITCHES"....do you feel the propoganda
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NJ_Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
49. It'd be nice to know someone in the FBI, so they...
Edited on Mon Dec-06-04 07:40 AM by NJ_Lib
... could tell us if this is really being investigated, or if it's being, ahem, "investigated"...
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propagandafreegal Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
50. In NY I saw a dead relative on the voter roles also. nm
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
51. Kick
:dem:
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