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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 02:28 PM
Original message
Asian carmakers on a roll in the U.S.
Asian carmakers on a roll in the U.S.

By Alan Ohnsman and Naoko Fujimura Bloomberg News
Friday, December 3, 2004

Nissan Motor and Toyota Motor shares rose Thursday after a report showed that Asian automakers increased their record share of the U.S. auto market last month.
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The U.S. market share for Asian carmakers was 34.5 percent in the 11 months through November, which compared with 32.6 percent in all of 2003, the U.S.-based research group Autodata said.
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November sales rose 26 percent at Nissan and 4.4 percent at Toyota, lifted by Nissan's Armada sport utility vehicle and Toyota's Scion brand.
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"Japanese automakers are a threat for the U.S. carmakers," said Naohiko Sasaki, a fund manager at Kokusai Asset Management. "Toyota and Nissan are winning customers with their ability to design and develop new models."
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Toyota's shares rose 1.6 percent to 3,870 in Tokyo. Nissan shares gained 2.1 percent to 1,101. Honda shares added 2.5 percent to 5,010.
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Toyota, the world's largest carmaker by value, has a market capitalization of 13.9 trillion, or $136 billion, based on its share price of 3,870.
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That is larger than the combined market value of General Motors, Ford Motor, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen and PSA Peugeot Citron, according to Bloomberg data.
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"If it's not utter fear in Detroit, it should be," said Dennis Virag, vice president of Automotive Consulting Group, based in Ann Arbor, Michigan. "Toyota is the industry benchmark in quality and reliability, and Camry and Corolla continue to be workhorse models. Nissan has done a terrific job in terms of developing products that have generated real excitement."...cont'd
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http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/12/02/bloomberg/sxcar....
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I used to only buy US manufactured vehicles.
I wanted to support US workers and keep money in the US. In addition, I do a lot of my own auto maintenance and US vehicles were cheaper and easier to work on. However, now that the US manufacturers are outsourcing all their parts, many "foriegn" based automanufacturers actually have more parts produced by US laborers. There are some requirements under auto import laws that encourage "foriegn" based companies to manufacture here in the US. US cars are no longer easier to work on. My wife has a '98 Taurus with the dual overhead cam 6 cylinder motor. It took me an entire day to change the plugs because the intake manifold covers the rear three plugs. I put the word foriegn in quotations because the only thing US about Ford and GM is that they have headquarters in the US. With globalization, it doesn't really matter a great deal where the company is based since they operate over the entire world. Heck, Chysler is now owned by a German company. I now own an Toyota Tundra and am happy as clam with it.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I used to own ONLY foreign vehicles...Mazda, Toyota, Saab
Edited on Fri Dec-03-04 03:09 PM by Dover
and was so very pleased...efficient, long lasting, reliable, few repairs. But recently I needed to buy a truck and bought a Dodge Ram diesel. Very good as far as design for comfort. And the Cummins diesel has never been a problem (21 mpg)although it ought to be filtered like the diesels in Europe. It's just that the rest of the vehicle has fallen apart. I'll never buy American again until they reach the standards of the foreign vehicles. I've also been appalled that the American companies in particular created the insane idea that big gas guzzling engines was our future. Pathetic!
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. ram 1500 v6 here, had it for 3 months. it's been pretty good so far.
like the mileage, and the power is decent. cab is nice and big, but they could step up the quality of fit and finish.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. i`ve owned alot of different cars over the
years. the 4 best cars i`ve ever owned-51 mercury,96 model saabs,72 honda crx and a 1997 dodge intrepid.
remember-most of the japanesse cars are made by american workers-
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The workers aren't the problem.......n/t
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. So far, the Big Three are in the "Denial" phase.
Their official position appears to be "it's a flash in the pan". I imagine they won't be able to sustain the denial much longer, so we can expect the anger, barganing, and depression phases any day now.

"Acceptance" will never happen, if their previous clobbering by Japan is any indication.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. They probably want Bush to bail them out, like the gov't did in the 70s
which is what started this whole problem for them -- a fear of competition.
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Toyota is the only major "blue" company
Someone else posted a list of manufacturers with their contributions to Democratic vs. GOP candidates. All the major car companies exc. Toyota gave most heavily to the GOP.

Among the cars we've owned: Volvo. Ford. Chrysler. VW. Subaru. Toyota.

The Volvo, Ford, and Chrysler ended up costing us a fortune in various repairs.

The only cars we'll even think of buying now are Lexus (Toyota) and Subaru.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Check out a Scion tC and you'll see why.
Edited on Fri Dec-03-04 05:40 PM by ReadTomPaine


At around 16K well equipped it's head and shoulders over most domestic cars in its class, and it's just one of many. Tend to prefer european cars myself, although I have owned my share of Asian automobiles.

RTP

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TrueAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sorry, but that car is ugly
UGLY.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I disagree, and the fit and finish are head and shoulders above others..
Edited on Fri Dec-03-04 05:52 PM by ReadTomPaine
It reminds me of a 3/4ths scale G35 coupe w/o the silly taillight treatment. However... Ford, Pontiac & Chrysler do have the new Mustang, GTO & 300C on tap for you, and those are fantastic cars and all American as well. They are just a bit more pricy, starting at about 10K more for a Mustang GT and going up from there.

RTP

On edit - some pics

GTO


Just love the new Mustang's looks.


300C
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I test drove one of those cars, it's a nice little ride
but it's not for the taller folk and by that i mean 5'6 and above.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That might be the case...
I recall during my look at the car that headroom seemed fair but not great - FYI I am not very tall, but I'm taller than 5'6". I can imagine it might be tight for someone around or over 6' tall however. What impressed me the most was the quality for the money. That's alot of car for 16.5K.

It's clearly a more nicely put together auto than domestics of the same class, with trim materials quite good and panel gaps very uniform and close. It's pretty powerful for an economy car as well, with 160 HP and a factory available supercharger option that boosts output to 200 HP, so it's got beans and room to grow performance-wise as well.

Nice ride, as you say. Once you start to hit around 22K, the market really begins to open up however.. so many good models it's an embarrassment of riches to be an auto enthusiast now.

Enjoy all you can before Peak Oil :)

RTP

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. I have a Buick and a my wife has a Honda
My Buick was made in Canada and the Honda in Ohio. So what's a foreign car anymore? :shrug:
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. It get very complicated when you start to look at who owns who...
Ford owns Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin & Mazda.

GM owns Subaru, Hummer, Saab, Vauxhall, Opel, Holden, Suzuki, Isuzu, a slice of Fiat & Daewoo and until not too long ago Lotus.

Daimler Chrysler (A hybrid themselves) owns Mitsubishi & Hyundai (currently divesting themselves of both), Smart, Maybach and Kia (via Hyundai)

Volkswagen owns Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Skoda, Bentley and has a long association with Porsche via Ferdinand Piech.

BMW owns Mini, Rolls Royce, Austin Healey and Triumph.

Oh, and before I forget, Renault is heavily invested in Nissan & Infiniti.

And there are more - whew!

RTP
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Germans make the best cars,the new Chrysler 300 is proof they win everywhe
VW is the best selling car in China and Brasil. Who would have thought that the French could turn the Japanese auto industry upside down? Well. if the Germans get loose in Japan it would be Toyota's worse nightmare. Lucky for them, Mitsubishi had almost as much debt as California. In a few months, over a hundred thousand a year all new 5cylinder VW Jettas will come pouring over the Mexican border to give Toyota and Honda all they want.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Well... your assertion is arguable, however..
Edited on Fri Dec-03-04 10:53 PM by ReadTomPaine
.. it would be a very good argument :) Germans certainly are among the very best automakers in the world. They are amazingly consistent, the cars are uniformly excellent, and they are fairly reliable to boot. Other makers might trump one aspect or another and there are the occasional misfires (Bangle styling on the new BMW's for instance), but on balance, it's very hard to beat em. Audi interiors, BMW sportiness, Mercedes luxury, not bad if you don't mind the fairly gentle price premium. Not a big fan of actual VW's myself. There have been some reliability issues with those cars of late. The Touareg has a very nice interior however, even tho I don't care for SUV's, I was impressed sitting in one.

Interior of Touareg


After sitting in one for a test drive, Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman of product development and chairman of GM North America (and big time auto enthusiast to boot) remarked that every interior designer at GM should sit in one as a lesson on how to design an interior properly.

RTP
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Who wud of thunk it.
LOL!!!
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