Bus driver fired for stem cell remark

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12/02/busdriver.stemcell.ap/index.html

An elementary school bus driver was fired after sharing a statistic she had read about embryonic stem cell research with students, then encouraging them to tell their parents about it.

Julianne Thompson, 42, told students in November that actor Mel Gibson had said in an article that embryonic stem cell research had not produced a single human cure in 23 years.

Some parents complained and school officials in the Buffalo suburb fired the driver.

[VegasWolf]

1. 1 fundie down, 59 million to go!

[Old and In the Way]

4. She'll probably be hired as Scretary of HHS

She's qualified, by Bush standards.

[rodeodance]

9. gotta get rid of Tommy Thompson first!!

[MountainLaurel]

71. You did see the news that he's leaving?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31377-2004Dec3.html

Frankly, my bet is that they're gonna nominate the guy on the FDA panel who thinks that prayer is a suitable treatment for PMS and menopause.

:scared:

[Sabriel]

26. Transportation, more likely. Or is she overqualified? n/t

[Old and In the Way]

30. Maybe both?

Streamline government....

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

5. How do we know she was a fundie?

Perhaps she wanted the students to tell their parents how fucking stupid Mel is?

[VegasWolf]

11. Don't the parents already know that? n/t

[BlueStatesForever]

43. Where is the Republican outrage

about Mel and his stupid movie. Why aren't they telling him he should just act and shut up?

At least liberal Hollywooders aren't trying to pretend they know anything about science! Mel needs to STFU.

[BareskinMatt]

24. So much for free speech

I see no cause for firing this person.

[LiberalFighter]

27. Not on company time with kids PERIOD

Teachers, bus drivers, medical personnel have a special duty towards children.

[flygal]

38. Exactly - my driver's ed teacher used to play Christian music on the car

radio. He was seriously disturbed. It was very distracting to me since I hate that crap. If the bus driver wants to make a message make publish a LTTE like we all have to.

[Guaranteed]

61. Eh...I have no sympathy for this woman, but

to be honest what she said was NOT bad, at all.

It's not like it was religious. She was just repeating a "fact" she had heard somewhere else.

[CheshireCat]

68. Free Speech is dead!

Of course I disagree with what she said, but she should not be fired. If she had stated what she believed to be a fact that supported stell cell research and was fired for it, Most of us would all be upset about it.

If I were still teaching, I would not know what I could say to my students without getting fired. How can anyone get to know their students anymore? Same with the bus driver. It is becoming impossible to develop relationships with with kids anymore.

[tsuki]

41. Thank you. My first thought was, what if it had been a pro statement.

[tandot]

53. Her job is (was) to drive kids to school ... not to spew mis-information

and try to manipulate children.

This has nothing to do with free speech. I don't discuss politics or religious opinions at my place of work. Keeping your mouth shut about these issues is especially important when dealing with other people's children. Unless, of course, your child is going to one of those "religious" dummyfication schools and parents consent to mis-inform their children in the name of God.

[PeteGammons]

70. Was it misinformation?

Can you point to a site where I can find some of the things that have been cured with embryonic stem cells? I was under the impression that nothing had been yet...

[tandot]

73. And if we let ignorant religious fanatics decide, we'll never find out

You are aware that those embryonic stem cells come from cells created through invitro fertilization. These are left-over cells that weren't used in the fertilization process and are usually discarded - or "flushed down the drain" ... or "aborted"

So anyone having a problem with embryonic stem cell research should also be completely opposed to invitro fertilization.

Here are some promising links:

http://www.stemcellresearchfoundation.org/WhatsNew/November_2004.htm#9

Researchers Use Human Embryonic Stem Cells To Create New Nerve Insulation Tissue That Can Aid Spinal Cord Repair

For the first time, researchers have used human embryonic stem cells to create new insulating tissue for nerve fibers in a live animal model—a finding that has potentially important implications for treatment of spinal cord injury and multiple sclerosis


http://www.stemcellresearchfoundation.org/WhatsNew/October_2004.htm#2

Embryonic Stem Cells Correct Congenital Heart Defect In Mouse Embryos

A study published in the October 8, 2004 issue of Science describes a previously unsuspected capacity of embryonic stem cells to influence neighboring defective cells and restore their capacity to function normally.

Researchers at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center report that 15 embryonic stem cells injected into early embryos of mice whose hearts were genetically predisposed to develop a lethal defect, rescued the heart from developing the disorder by not only producing normal daughter cells that were incorporated into the defective embryonic heart but also by releasing biological factors into the nearby vicinity. This prevented neighboring heart cells from developing into defective tissue.


We could, of course, just give up any hope and never investigate any of these promising treatments. Maybe all pharmaceutical companies should just stop investigating any promising new treatments for diseases because it just takes too long to see results. /sarcasm


On Edit: My point is that I want my kid's bus driver NOT to talk to my child about politics or religion in general. Neither pro nor con. NADA, ZERO, ZILCH. It is not their job to "educate" my kids on political or religious issues. I don't go around and tell every child I see that Bush is a complete idiot.

[conservdem]

76. It does appear to be a violation of her right to free speech.

She was not even given a warning.

[The Wielding Truth]

81. Did she really do any harm? If this is her livelihood shouldn't she

have a chance to explain and be given some lenience. There may be a lot more to this story. If not and she just made a comment about stem cell research this action of taking her job seems excessive.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. Why would anyone quote Mel Gibson on anything other than

making movies?

And, I guess we have no freedom of speech anymore.

[UpInArms]

45. really, he's just a member

of those librul hollyweirders /sarcasm

[bluestateguy]

3. I love it when Bush voters lose their jobs

[Winamericaback]

6. I dislike fundies as much as the next

But instead of being fired she should have been told that that wasn't appropriate. Its her job to drive the damn bus not teach the children riding in it.

[rodeodance]

8. I think she got that message!!

[VivaKerry]

7. Jeeze, did the school lose so much funding under bush

that they have the bus driver teaching science 'on the way to school'? What in sam hill is the problem with a bus driver saying anything at all to kids????

No, no freedom of speech (even if the speech is factually incorrect). Geeze.

[CindyDale]

12. Yeah, but you shouldn't mention the name of a porn film maker around kids.

[President Kerry]

15. and you shouldn't have a phallic avatar...

;-)

[CindyDale]

48. Sorry, Mr. President

Here I thought I moved to Florida for the sunshine, but it was actually a Freudian thing.

[last1standing]

49. It is not free speech to spew propaganda to a captive audience.

This was a government employee who had no certification or authorization to force her opinions on children. It is the very same situation that, for now, keeps organized prayer out of the classrooms.

So what about this qualifies for free speech protection?

[Book Lover]

10. Hm. I have to confess that I'm of two minds

I am not sure she should have been fired. Reprimanded because what she did was against the rules of the job, yes. Reassigned to another route maybe. But fired completely? Maybe it's the after-dinner beer talking, but I'm just not sure. Plus, if suit is filed and she wins, the district is out those funds... Maybe I need to think on this a bit more.

[benddem]

21. if she's drinking beer

before she drives...she really should have been fired. What a stupid twit. I wouldn't want that woman driving my child anywhere.

[Book Lover]

35. No, no, no *my beer*

Sorry if I was unclear...

[Buck Rabbit]

56. Pour the Coors down the drain, drink a couple Widmer Hefeweizen

brued in Blue Portland Oregon and report back that beers opinion.



<edited out Hefeweizen induced big typo, little ones can stay.>

[Book Lover]

59. Coors?

What do you think I am, a heathen? Only Anchor Steam and your recommended Widmer Hefe for this girl :-)

(But shouldn't we be having this talk in the Lounge?)

[dave502d]

13. Free country,wrong. n/t

[last1standing]

50. Where is the freedom for these children?

Do they have no rights? Is it free speech to force your opinions and beliefs onto a captive audience?

The only rights being violated here are those of the children and their parents.

[Guaranteed]

62. She only said one thing. It's not like she told them they were

going to hell or something, either.

She should have been warned to leave politics out of her job. This is not that big of a deal.

Again, though, I have no sympathy for these kinds of people.

[depakid]

14. Since it's form CNN- I have no idea WHY any of you

would believe for one second that you have even one or two salient details of what actually happened- much less the complete or even a half way objective summary of the story.

Sheesh, people.

[jobycom]

32. Very true. nt/

[Eric J in MN]

34. Firing way too harsh.

If the discussion was inappropriate, she should have been given a warning.

[Feron]

37. I agree

If she didn't get the message after being warned and kept sharing the "wisdom" of Mel Gibson then fire her. But, at least give her a warning first.

[Renew Deal]

16. That's annoying

I'm sure Julianne will get another job.

[private_ryan]

17. I hope she sues and wins big

what if she supported stem cell and was fired? Freedom of speech is for all of us. Maybe talked to and warned, but not fired.

How do DUers with no jobs or anyoen who ever lost a job feel?

[Inland]

18. Her job is to drive kids, not indoctrinate them.

I don't care if anyone agrees with her or not. You don't send your kids to school so someone with all of the qualifications of a bus driver can teach them.

[private_ryan]

19. nonsense

freepers say the same about public school teachers. A warning would've done it. Getting fired is a major punishment

[Inland]

25. maybe a warning could have done it, and maybe the freepers have a point

if you agree that it shouldn't have been allowed.

[QC]

22. "all of the qualifications of a bus driver"

Damnable uppity peasants!

My dad drives a school bus. He doesn't discuss politics with the kids, of course, but the fact that he drives a bus doesn't make him a fool.

[Inland]

23. He's your father. Nobody elses.

So he doesn't get to indoctrinate the kids just because they are stuck with him as he drives the bus. His not being a fool and not discussing politics with the kids, by the way, might be related.

[QC]

29. Let's be honest for a moment, shall we?

If this woman had been fired for speaking in favor of stem cell research or John Kerry or something else we like, we would be feverishly searching the web right now for something in Grand Island to boycott, writing furious letters to her hometown paper, loudly denouncing her freeper boss for trying to silence dissent, etc.

Because I value my own right to speak my mind, I'm willing to cut others some slack for doing the same. She should have been reprimanded, but firing is a bit much, unless she has a history of this sort of thing.

Besides, it's dumb to give people like her the opportunity to portray themselves as martyrs to free speech. We all know how much reactionaries love to fantasize about being persecuted.

[Inland]

40. Maybe reprimanded, not fired, but I can't defend her or anyone else

for "speaking their minds" to a captive audience of someone else's kids.

And no, I would not feel differently for speaking in favor of stem cell research or John Kerry.

Parents have a right to raise their kids, and in order to maintain public schools, there can't be political or sectarian speaking of minds.

[rhyfeddu]

64. Amen, QC

Unless there is more to this than we know, it makes us as reactionary to "go straight to FIRE, do not pass go, do not collect a shitty paycheck".

And was this grade school or high school? Did the kids start the conversation or did the driver? There are supposed to be steps to firing someone (starting with documentation of past offenses and usually a "3 strikes, you're out" clause), to prevent abuses. I want the same standards for the RW as for us, to protect us all in the end. It spooks me to hear this "Fuck 'em all" attitude here, regardless. Just call me a liberal, bleeding heart :shrug:

[conservdem]

77. Good points.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

20. she shouldn't have been fired unless she was warned about this before hand

people sometimes don't realise they are overstepping their bounds. i think this person deservered another chance unless she has had a problem with behaviour like this in the past.

firing someone over a single incident like this seems very brash.

[genieroze]

28. Just curious

Is what she said true? That embryonic stem cell research had not produced a single human cure in 23 years.

Then she said later
"I learned that free speech is definitely not free," Thompson said.

Well tell that to that nut in Alabama that wants to ban books mentioning homosexuality in any form.

A bill by Rep. Gerald Allen, R-Cottondale, would prohibit the use of public funds for "the purchase of textbooks or library materials that recognize or promote homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle." Allen said he filed the bill to protect children from the "homosexual agenda."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777619

[jobycom]

31. The test to me is whether we would support the firing of one of our own

on the same grounds. I doubt it. Unless her comments were more specifically religious or political, that is.

If a DUer was fired for telling kids that there were no WMDs in Iraq or for telling kids that dinosaurs roamed the Earth twelve million years ago, I doubt we'd be sympathetic, yet both could be construed as political or religous statements by fundies. On the other hand, if this driver said something like "You're all going to burn in Hell if you support stem cell research," that's a different story.

The story's too vague to know the details, either way.

[RandomKoolzip]

33. That sucks. They shouldn't have fired her.

Look, it was a stupid thing to say, and she shoulda kept her fundy yap shut, but it's shit like this that gives fuel to the misconception that liberals are the "PC police," and it'll fuel Hannity/Limbaugh rants for weeks to come.

They should not have fired this woman. They should have given her a stern warning. You know how much bus drivers make? They make shit. Great, some parents, probably upper-middle-class ones, got some working-class woman fired for expressing her religious beliefs. This idjit woman shoulda known better, but ousting her from her job is no better than a freeper outing a DUer to his/her boss. Especially 'cuz she's poor.

We still have free speech here in America, even if it's speech that is disgusting or hateful or merely disagreeable; this is what (presently) separates the USA from fascism. If I'm allowed the right to say "George Bush is a cokehead and he fucks goats while sucking the cocks of dead Egyptians" (which I do everyday, as a mantra; gets me goin' in the morning (better than coffee!)), then the fundies should have the right to express their bullshit superstitions and proseltyze to any carbon-based lifeform with ears, whether said lifeform likes it or not.

Fuck it. Liberal double standards are just as odious as conservative double standards. (But conservative PEOPLE are sixty-seven times as odious as liberal people.)

[daleo]

36. On the merits of the story, I don't think she should have been fired

That said, my guess is there is plenty more to this. I wouldn't be surprised if she made a practice of religious indoctrination, and this was the final straw. We have seen this pattern repeatedly, where only a few facts of a much deeper story are reported, and when the full facts are out, the story is much different.

I seem to recall a story during the election along these lines - an elementary music teacher in New Jersey, I think. When the full set of facts were revealed, the vice principal's actions were much more reasonable.

[tuvor]

39. We'd better defend her right to free speech, bushkisser or not.

'Cause after they're all forced into silence, guess who's next?

[Bridget Burke]

42. We've only heard her side of the story so far.

www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=6983360

"Education authorities in the town were not immediately available for comment." She's suing & having her moment in the spotlight.

[billfromwny]

44. She Could have been a Fundie

I live only a couple miles from that town, and it's pretty well heeled and Republican, so not sure why she was fired.

[billfromwny]

46. Did a little digging

She definitely is a Jesus Freak, also was handing out "factoids" to the kids about various issues.

[KansDem]

47. Perhaps, then, this incident is the culmination of several like incidents

I wondered if this was all to the story.

But reporting it as such makes her a hero in the minds of fundies/freepers.

I particularly like this statement:

But Thompson said there is nothing in her contract that prohibits her from expressing facts or opinions. She is considering legal action, saying officials have yet to explain why her comments were inappropriate.

"I learned that free speech is definitely not free," Thompson said.

I suppose if religious zealots can decide for research scientists whether stem-cell research is valuable or not, then bus drivers can relay the musings of movies stars regarding the same topic...

[Moloch]

51. I think she's a fundie nutbag,

but was it really necessary to fire her from her job?

I think that's kind of ridiculous. She's entitled to her opinion.

[tx_dem41]

52. Some people really rejoice in someone losing a job

I agree that she should have been reprimanded. Unless she had a history of doing this and had been reprimanded before, she should not have been fired.

[daleo]

54. My hunch is, this will prove to be the case

I think when the full story is out, she will have a history of proselytizing to the children on the bus.

[tx_dem41]

55. I guess we will see.

Until then (and possibly even after that), I gain no joy from what has happened to her.

[PATRICK]

57. CNN is the story here

playing to the emotions of the persecuted wacko wing, when it is obvious to anyone there would be a pattern of behavior involved, not a single titillating incident. Bad journalism, but it also serves to make the sacked person a martyr for trivia or a cause. it makes the parents themselves sound spiteful and trivialized. Nor is any science brought in to the story either which is why 47% of Americans go their merry whimsical poorly informed way not accepting Evolution.

This kind of reporting has ceased to be folksy cute or a joke as it often is in the radio or urban legend releases of infotainment media.

On the other hand, we here at DU take these tripe stories at face value for issue significance. Consider the source. Always.

[VegasWolf]

58. She shouldn't be allowed to drive with that mental impairment. Listening

and believing what mister right-of-Opus-Dei has to say
is the first sign of a severe psychosis developing!

edit add missed words

[Igel]

60. It's an empirical question, isn't it?

Everybody I know is convinced that either companies are lined up to dump money into embryonic stem cell research, but aren't allowed to; or that there are lots of clinical trials right around the corner. A few are convinced that clinical trials and cures are already available in Europe. All three strike me as false assertions, but I'd like to be proven wrong.

Gibson's hardly an authority on it. Neither's Fox. Both have their opinions; far be it from me to tell either he can't speak his mind if people want to listen.

Assuming that we've heard the whole story, isn't it like a busdriver saying that cold fusion research hasn't proven itself to mainstream physicists yet? Few would bat an eye (although people might wonder why she said it). Just no political or media hubbub over that particular topic.

[0007]

63. Leave it to CNN to be right in the middle

I can see the poll now in my mind's eye.

Was the fired Bus Driver deprived of freedom of speech

Yes = 40%

No = 45%

Undecided = 5%

[stanwyck]

65. Surprised she hasn't

been hired as a science teacher here in Georgia. Or, what passes as science here in Georgia. "Creationism". Because fundie minds just can't grapple with scientific concepts. Or that a God would have created science. I guess "their" God isn't as smart as ours. Figures. Afterall, the blue states make up the top half of the IQ scores. And the red states, well, they're where you'd expect the "creationists" to be -- at the bottom.
Be glad she was only responsible for driving.

[QC]

66. The state-by-state IQ thing is an urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

[patcox2]

67. Snopes has its biases, but the methodology I have seen was flawed.

Snopes is a bit quick to debunk things that aren't politically correct. But that aside, the analysis and data I have seen used to produce that state by state IQ comparison seemed weak, lots of assumptions were made, inconsistent data selection state to state, I don't necessarily beleive it.

The fact is that it requires a special kind of extreme intelligence to deny reality, sometimed it takes more intelligence to deny reality than to accept it. As someone once said, conservative intellectuals are engaged in the most difficult intellectual endeavor of all, attempting to find a moral justification for greed.

[mainer]

69. Aw c'mon. she's just a bus driver.

My son used to get into arguments with his high school bus driver (a Bushie) all the time. They'd argue all the way to school and all the way home. My son's conclusion: "Well, I guess that explains why he's still just a bus driver."

[Book Lover]

74. Just a bus driver?

Thanks for the classist attitude. I guess when I was working as a maid and laundress, you would have judged me as stupid, too.

[QC]

80. Yeah, and back when I was waiting tables

I really should have kept my mouth shut about politics and such, since I was just a waiter.

The casual, unconscious snobbery around here is really breathtaking sometimes, isn't it?

[GinaMaria]

72. people make some poor decisions

if you think about the kids you come in contact with, I mean really think about {b]them, then there is no way you would bring up stem cell research. How about focusing on what they need and giving them that for those brief moments of contact? How about "It looks like you worked really hard on the picture, Sally" "Your Mom/Dad must be so proud of you" "You have such nice manners" A little positive reinforcement will do a lot more for a kid than preaching about Mel Gibson's beliefs.

[Liberal Chad from WI]

75. Mel Gibson is NUT along w/ his dad

Just do a little research on Opus Dei and you will know what I am talking about.

[SoCalDem]

78. Gee whiz.. Personally, I go to Mel Gibson for ALL medical dilemmas

He's the leading authority on all things "medical-research-ie"..:eyes:

[flaminbats]

79. my bus driver was a racist!!!

she used the n-word and called Mexican-Americans..w_t-b...ks

she wasn't the only one, I had a teacher in the vocational department who also felt the n-word was appropriate, and punished any student who criticized him for using it! He also would mock me and others by calling us white ni..ohhh how insulting! :eyes:

Despite complaints..the principle, school board, and county superintendent never did anything to correct the disgusting behavior of these county employees.

What is happening in this country??? Today I saw a bumper sticker that stated "You're Only an American If you believe in God"