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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:52 PM
Original message
No U.S. Casualties in Iraq for 7 Days
That's good news to be sure but that it IS news is sad.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1...

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military has not lost a soldier in combat for seven days, and despite a bomb attack on a convoy in Baghdad Monday, the country has witnessed a rare period of relative calm. Nevertheless, Britain announced plans to send 1,200 more troops to bolster its force in the south.

Also Monday saboteurs hit an oil pipeline 30 kilometers (18 miles) southeast of Kirkuk. The line that had been carrying 35,000 barrels a day from the Jabour oil field to the main pipeline that originates in Kirkuk was shut down.

In the only reported attack Monday, Iraqi guerrillas bombed an American patrol as soldiers were driving out of a tunnel in the center of the capital, the military said. The attack wounded two soldiers, damaged two Humvees, one of which turned over and caught fire.

AND THIS

But street crime, kidnappings and carjackings still bedevil the country and Bush's words and promised spending were no solace to Moataz Charek, a 47-year-old chemical engineer who lost his job after the Americans occupied the country.


"President Bush, with due respect, is lying. He promised freedom. I want to ask him were is my freedom when I don't feel safe leaving the house, when I don't feel my wife is safe when she goes to work, when I don't feel safe sending my children to school," he asked.

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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't believe it.
Aren't casualty figures classified?
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well the have been saying about 15 attacks a day
The article states that the attack that wounded two was the only one reported.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
44. THIS HEADLINE IS BULLSHIT
Don't think for one minute things are going good. Don't underestimate the CHIMPANZEE'S handlers. When the deaths were 2 or 3 a day, the public outrage started to stir. The handlers are now apparently imposing a "no report" policy.

Now with the NFL, high school and college back in session a SEDATED ON SPORTS public will resume their naps and short snoozes.

A woman said to me yesterday, "its all so dreary---- I wish it would go away"

Well it is going away, at least from the news----there is obviously no one in the "FREE" press with any courage or fortitude.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wouldn't be so sure
My brother heard something about the DOD last Tuesday. They weren't going to report any causalties anymore. That's unconfirmed, I just thought I'd put my two cents in.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. No, I heard that last week.
What the DoD announced was that they were no longer going to report attacks in which nobody dies. That means we could have 25,000 wounded, but as long as nobody dies, they won't report it.

The title of this article is factually incorrect as well. Casualties include dead AND wounded. There have been casualties in the last 7 days, just no deaths.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. no deaths
but how many injuries are they hiding. They admitted last week that they don't publish the statistics on injuries.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Great question, by NOT reporting wounded the Pentagon has caused
the word casualty to become synonomous with dead, which it isn't.

We ought to be asking why Rove is so afraid of pictures of Cheny or Rumsfeld visitin recovering wounded...the obvious answer being that they don't want to shed any light onto that subject.

With superior body armor we are having a lower rate of American's killed, but it is generating wounded numbers that don't look so good.
The media is being contributing by this by not pressing. Powell gets away with saying things on MTP like the US honestly and openly reports its casualties...


The nightly news ought to sound like this "In Iraq, No American dead today, our requests to the Pentagon for number of wounded continues to go unanswered."

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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. msnbc said the casualty #'s are classified
After the speech last night, Nora O'donnell said that a few days ago, lawmakers met with admin types and were given the actual #'s, which *shocked* the Congress people. They were also mad that the counts had been classified.

There is mention in one of the articles on msnbc, but not with the details she gave. Something is up.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Nora O'donnell link?
That sounds linkworthy.
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travisleit01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Here you go:
snip-

"Shortly after the speech, NBCs Norah ODonnell reported that a growing number of lawmakers, including Republicans, have lately expressed dismay at administration efforts to keep classified the number of U.S. casualties in Iraq. ODonnell, speaking on MSNBCs Hardball With Chris Matthews, said those casualties included more than 1,100 wounded in the conflict to date.

Vice President Dick Cheney, in remarks on Friday, acknowledged that the wars in Iraq and in Afghanistan have come with sacrifice.



http://www.msnbc.com/news/951994.asp?vts=090820030410
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Excellent, thanks. n/t
n/t
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Strangely, the quote you posted doesn't appear at this link
Are they scrubbing embarrassing revelations already?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. This headline is bullshit
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 12:59 PM by DoYouEverWonder
The definition of the word casualty includes dead and INJURED.

And I guess that civilian from Halliburton who got killed a couple of days ago, doesn't count?

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've been noticing the reports of attacks
have dried up. Is it because they're not happening, or because so many are happening the Pentagon is in panic mode? Mark me down for number 2.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Read above also they weren't reporting all the attacks anyway
They only reported the ones in which there were casualties, dead and wounded. Apparently they have stopped doing that.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Could be because they're having a "crackdown"
I've noticed this. The U.S. military announces it's cracking down on whoever the bad person/group of the moment is, raids a lot of homes, causes chaos, and casualties go down for a while. Then, the second they let up, a bunch of Iraqis offended by the "crackdown" start lobbing bombs and sniping at soldiers.
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peterh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. The dead get reported rather quickly
A cut on the finger to losing a limb or two does not get reported unless a life is lost in the same incident.
At least thats what Ive read.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. crap
They've redefined casualties. In the history of warfare, 'casualties' has always included wounded.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Exactly - they can't change the definition because they want to
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. LIE! LIE! LIE!
On all of the cable networks this morning they were reporting 2, possibly 3 casualties from a bomb. Supposedly, it was either dropped from an overpass or set by the side of the road. My understanding is that 2 of them were seriously injured.

So, maybe there weren't any FATALITIES but there definitely were some CASUALTIES.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. "injured" is even to my mind antiseptic
This ain't Gunsmoke, they don't give you a shot of whiskey and tie a bandana around the wound.

There was an article on Ward 57 at Walter Reed in the NY Times( I believe thats right) a few weeks ago. The "injured" are devistating injuries in many cases. Sad. I think most people (as I said I even think "whoo" when I hear that there are no deaths) have no idea how life-altering many of these injuries are.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
42. "injured"?
As they said in, I think, Band of Brothers, injured is when you fall down and break something, wounded is when you get shot. :(
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. You mean no KIA's
KIA + WIA = Casualties

The reason it is considered a casualty is that to the military unit, a KIA OR a WIA is a LOSS of a unit member which diminishes the ability of the military unit.

Casualty:
a military person lost through death, wounds, injury, sickness, internment, or capture or through being missing in action
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Sagan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yeah, they never tell you about the wounded, though...

The Pentagon wants everyone to think that a "wounded" soldier got shot through the flesh of his arm and tied it up with his camo bandana, making an appropriately heroic grimace. Then, he refuses to go to the hospital because he wants to stay with his squad, fighting the Nazis...err.. I mean the Japs...no no, I mean terrahists...

In reality, these guys have legs blown off, organs ripped up, head trauma, 3rd degree burns......

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. See #19
You put it much better than I did.
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Sagan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. nah...

Great minds think alike, in any case. :)
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. US troops might not be venturing out in the open as much.
So far 37,000 police officers have been trained for a force that is supposed to reach 75,000 by the end of next year. At the same time US military patrols in Baghdad have been drastically cut back, apparently in an effort to limit casualties.

That has left the Iraqi police often alone on the frontline of their country's new relentless crime wave.

Mr Khalid and the three others in patrol N-Five spend much of the day driving through known troublespots and setting up checkpoints to search cars for guns and explosives. Their district is probably the most dangerous in the capital. Al-Saddoun is a sprawling commercial area with more than 900 small hotels which attract itinerant workers.

All the troubles of a modern Western city - drugs, prostitution and gang crimes - are just as prevalent here. Thousands of the criminals released from jail by Saddam in an amnesty in October last year have returned to their lives of crime in districts like al-Saddoun.


Baghdad's Mean Streets. (Guardian Article)
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Beat me to it Johny n/t
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. This means one thing if true
We are no longer sending the soldiers into areas where we are not wanted. They are staying inside well fortified bases and are giving control of the country to anyone with an AK-47. Not good news for your average Iraqi trying to carry on with his or her life.

Don

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You mean like in Kabul?
And isn't that going fantastically?

I didn't think of that, you and Johnny Canuck were right on it.

Again the lack of deaths is a great thing but it seems that even in war (see posts above) W&Co. are cooking the books.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. "in combat"
Also casualties doesn't just include deaths. It includes wounded who are permanently removed from the battlefield. The AP is using the word wrong.

CASUALTY
Pronunciation: 'kazhooultee
  1. {n} a decrease of military personnel or equipment
  2. {n} an accident that causes someone to die
  3. {n} someone injured or killed in an accident
  4. {n} someone injured or killed or captured or missing in a military engagement
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/casualty
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wounded are Casualties..as others have correctly pointed out
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 01:42 PM by Solly Mack
they are all listed as casualties....the headline is misleading...no, it's an out and out lie.

There may have been none killed...but there have been casualties.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. A running log of US Military WOUNDED in Iraq and Afghanistan . . .
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Photo gallery of the wounded . . .
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Wow! The media needs to be showing this!
oh I forgot. The media isn't interested in reality.

This is reality.

This is what people should see.

Thanks for the link.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. Actually, another here (WP)
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
31. Yahoo has revised their headline!
For 7 Days in Iraq, No U.S. Combat Deaths


Maybe someone lurking here, let them know the real definition of casualties.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
32. Casualties include the wounded, not just the KIA
and the Pentagon has been fudging on the numbers, and in the way the count those numbers.
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piece sine Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. First things first...
I'm grateful that none of our countrymen and women died this week. We can and should debate the difference between "casualties" and "fatalities," but let's not lose sight of our humanity, and humans react to the death of others -- or the absence of those deaths in this case. (Sorry -- every so often the pacifist in me flairs up!)
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
34. "Only two legs and an arm lost by American soldiers!"
a triumphant victory.

Just so you know, the term "Casualty" includes the injured.

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fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. The reason combat casualties are down -
I was listening on KCRW (local NPR, Los Angeles) to someone with military experience from the "Bring Them Back Home Now" organization (didn't catch his name) who said that soldiers are venturing out a lot less on patrol and are staying behind the wire a lot more where they are safe from attack.

They're suffering less casualties but at the same time they have ceded more freedom and safety to the resistance.


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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. "soldiers are venturing out a lot less" . . .

TYY
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Patriot_Spear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
40. Bush* is hiding the casualties...
A blind man could see it- I'm amazed they let NBC run an article that throws it right out there.

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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. Are we bragging or complaining?
What kind of shallow record is that?
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
45. Living in "Da-nile", waste deep into the deep muddy
Punched up "Hitler + living" in Denial" and found this article, sorry if this old news, I have been gone for few days. My guess this a little professional jealousy in an attempted cut at rank amateurs (I will keep posting anyway)

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/jgoldberg.htm

'Bush equals Hitler' adds up to holocaust denial

By Jonah Goldberg

We may be living in the worst period of Holocaust denial since the Nuremberg trials. I'm not referring to the twisted morons who insist that the Holocaust never happened the way the Monty Python guys insisted the parrot wasn't dead. I'm referring to the legions of Holocaust deniers in the Democratic Party, on the Web, on college campuses, in the mainstream press and, most acutely, in my e-mail box every morning, who reduce to the Holocaust to a triviality.
In America today - never mind Europe and the Middle East - ostensibly sophisticated and enlightened people see nothing particularly controversial about comparing George Bush to Adolph Hitler and the United States of America to Nazi Germany.
The examples are everywhere. Vanity Fair magazine asks if Richard Perle and Joseph Goebbels were "separated at birth." Whole Web sites are dedicated to the most astoundingly stupid and superficial comparisons between George Bush and Hitler (they both liked dogs, for example).
At every event protesting war, Bush, America, this, that and the other thing, one can find pictures of various administration officials in SS garb or bearing Hitler mustaches. On the Web, leftwing forums like Democraticunderground.com overflow with insubstantial people bolstering their self-esteem by pretending to "speak truth to power" to the unfolding Nazification of America.
(snip)


It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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