NY: Computer Tallies Can't be Trusted
[View All]
Replies: 147
 | Wilms
| Started: Jul-26 10:57 PM |
#0 |

Its not that an accurate reliable machine can't be built....it's just easier to hide the fraud by... |
yourout |
Jul-26-09 11:17 PM |
#1 |

the risk is more limited with Lever, whereas with computer |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-27-09 12:28 AM |
#2 |

Important for NYers |
clear eye |
Jul-27-09 04:44 AM |
#3 |

New York Anomalies: 19 Levers stuck on Bush, none on Kerry (EIRS) |
WillE |
Aug-12-09 12:55 PM |
#4 |
 
So are you saying computer tallies CAN BE TRUSTED then? |
Bill Bored |
Aug-12-09 03:14 PM |
#5 |
 
Oh, and maybe you can explain how 19 broken machines out of 7,000 in NYC... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-12-09 03:46 PM |
#6 |

You have avoided the facts presented in the post and appear quite defensive. |
WillE |
Aug-13-09 01:22 PM |
#7 |

Damn right I'm defensive! Here's why: |
Bill Bored |
Aug-13-09 01:57 PM |
#8 |

Define Dem Share |
Bill Bored |
Aug-13-09 02:22 PM |
#9 |

Do you think that would be a lot of trouble and risk just to pad the popular vote? |
Wilms |
Aug-13-09 11:46 PM |
#10 |
 
580,000 NY late votes; analysis of incidents, county size, Urban Legend…and a response |
WillE |
Aug-14-09 12:57 PM |
#11 |
  
Everyone knows the problem, at issue is which is worse? |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Aug-14-09 02:36 PM |
#12 |
  
Sorry, but you DO have to explain HOW the machines could have miscounted so many votes. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-14-09 02:48 PM |
#13 |
 
Sorry to waste your time with facts |
WillE |
Aug-14-09 04:52 PM |
#15 |
 
Are you going to answer my question or not?: How many lever machines had to be hacked... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-14-09 05:23 PM |
#16 |
 
A response and some questions for you |
WillE |
Aug-14-09 04:26 PM |
#14 |

well, there you go: unsupported dogma |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-14-09 05:24 PM |
#17 |

These reports sound like a Primary with separate Dem and Repub machines. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-14-09 08:44 PM |
#18 |

Thanks for using the word "believe". That's honest. Belief, while limited, is all we have. |
Wilms |
Aug-15-09 12:30 AM |
#19 |

Your comments indicate some confusion and a touch of desperation |
WillE |
Aug-15-09 01:17 PM |
#20 |

Confusion? Projection? |
Wilms |
Aug-15-09 02:25 PM |
#21 |

The raw data show that Bush didn't do better compared to 2000 in the precincts with the largest WPE. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-15-09 02:54 PM |
#22 |
 
: Motive, Means, and Opportunity |
WillE |
Aug-17-09 02:52 PM |
#24 |

I guess I'll stick to one or two odd claims per post |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-17-09 04:38 PM |
#25 |
 
Oooooo! |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Aug-20-09 02:57 AM |
#41 |

the scary thing is, he still hasn't figured it out |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-20-09 06:31 AM |
#42 |

Who said levers were "fraud proof"? Other than you claiming someone did, that is? |
Wilms |
Aug-17-09 11:57 PM |
#26 |
 
The HNYVA of 1892 |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 01:01 PM |
#27 |

HCPB zombies don't seem to realize HCPB is not on the menu. |
Wilms |
Aug-18-09 11:27 PM |
#35 |

No paper trail? How about NO RECOUNTS? |
Bill Bored |
Aug-19-09 01:39 AM |
#38 |

Levers are the “gold standard” with an 11% WPE? |
WillE |
Aug-19-09 04:25 PM |
#40 |

WPE is no standard at all. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-21-09 12:27 AM |
#44 |

Too time-consuming to respond to all this but... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-19-09 01:10 AM |
#37 |

There can be no stuffing of votes? |
WillE |
Aug-19-09 03:52 PM |
#39 |

You think Open Source means Hand Counted or what? |
Bill Bored |
Aug-21-09 12:02 AM |
#43 |

: Let’s summarize an analysis of the facts. Warning: slow load. |
WillE |
Aug-21-09 04:28 PM |
#46 |

"slow load"?! (snark redacted) |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-21-09 08:37 PM |
#47 |
 
(crickets) n/t |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 04:51 PM |
#54 |

Finally, something about Voting Systems! |
Bill Bored |
Aug-21-09 11:35 PM |
#48 |

More red flags! Average NY WPE: Bush 8.0 (1988,1992,2004); Clinton 0.6 (1996, 2000) |
WillE |
Aug-23-09 11:38 AM |
#49 |

Bush was running for reelection in 1988? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 01:03 PM |
#50 |

You need to take an algebra class |
WillE |
Aug-23-09 02:56 PM |
#51 |

oh, brother |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 04:46 PM |
#52 |

Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-23-09 06:38 PM |
#55 |

O RLY? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 07:02 PM |
#56 |

1 was wrong. You were right. I know Bush was VP. Address the wpe anomaly |
WillE |
Aug-23-09 08:59 PM |
#57 |

I take that back. Another look at the top 15 NY counties and the Urban Legend. |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 08:20 AM |
#58 |

"I was essentially correct in my prior analysis." You were? And TIA? |
Wilms |
Aug-24-09 10:09 AM |
#59 |

"Hell, let’s be honest: it’s impossible." |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 10:37 AM |
#60 |

There is much to refute here, but it's very easy to do. Just watch. |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 01:09 PM |
#61 |

it's boring to correct you over, and over, and over again |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 01:43 PM |
#62 |

That was a truly weak response - as expected |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 03:32 PM |
#63 |

"Kerry won ALL three exit polls"? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 03:54 PM |
#64 |

Here's a NY 2004 True Vote Sensitivity Analysis. Did you ever do one? |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 05:17 PM |
#65 |

all this is facially silly |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 06:00 PM |
#66 |

What's incredulous is your faith-based jargon and avoidance of analytical thought. |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 06:31 PM |
#67 |

"Now I know how Galileo felt." |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 06:38 PM |
#68 |

If you used exit polls in your "analysis " it was to thrash them n/t |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 11:02 PM |
#71 |

spoken like, yes, a fundamentalist |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 08:59 AM |
#74 |

Better things to do? Yes! Tell us how many lever machines would have to be HACKED to account for... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-24-09 10:35 PM |
#69 |

See post #49 |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 10:59 PM |
#70 |

This is not about "trusting exit polls" . It's about considering ALL the evidence... |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 11:16 PM |
#72 |

How many machines was that again? nt |
Bill Bored |
Aug-25-09 12:21 AM |
#73 |

for your convenience... |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 11:12 AM |
#75 |

Thanks for bringing all this back in full view again |
WillE |
Aug-25-09 05:55 PM |
#76 |

"Do you have any proof that they weren't?" |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 07:02 PM |
#77 |

I accept your recession |
WillE |
Aug-25-09 09:26 PM |
#78 |

yeah, well |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 10:03 PM |
#79 |

No, I'm still here :) |
Febble |
Aug-26-09 06:30 PM |
#80 |

wanna play "Urban Legend"? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-15-09 03:14 PM |
#23 |

This will not make your day. It will spoil it. |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 01:19 PM |
#28 |

you just aren't very good at analysis, apparently |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-18-09 02:51 PM |
#29 |

Your disinformation campaign rolls on |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 04:56 PM |
#30 |

sigh |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-18-09 05:54 PM |
#31 |

Mr. Other, you have been exposed |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 06:34 PM |
#32 |

uh, no |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-18-09 08:47 PM |
#34 |

(crickets) n/t |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 04:50 PM |
#53 |

CORRECTION TO LATE NY PAPER VOTES; EXIT POLL COMPARISONS |
WillE |
Sep-01-09 08:12 PM |
#145 |

4.5 years and you're still making "corrections". That's inspiring. n/t |
Wilms |
Sep-01-09 09:51 PM |
#146 |

You never have to correct a thing. Cuz you never do analysis. Very uninspiring. |
WillE |
Sep-01-09 11:24 PM |
#147 |

## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ## |
DU GrovelBot |
Aug-18-09 06:34 PM |
#33 |
 
Well, we're gonna let an exit poll define your programming. OK, Grov? |
Wilms |
Aug-18-09 11:29 PM |
#36 |

The reality is we have had GOP election theft for decades . . . with complicity of corporate press . |
defendandprotect |
Aug-21-09 03:12 AM |
#45 |

Election Fraud is endemic. These TIA graphs debunk all the Disinfo. |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 01:17 PM |
#81 |

TIA FAQ: whined about, but never refuted |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 01:32 PM |
#82 |

You concede when all you can do you is cherry-pick |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 02:31 PM |
#83 |
 
I didn't cherrypick |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 03:15 PM |
#85 |

He refuted it in spades |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 02:43 PM |
#84 |

nope |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 03:30 PM |
#86 |
 
No point in trying to discuss? Of course, because you can't. |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 04:45 PM |
#87 |

what point have I not responded to? be specific |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 05:07 PM |
#88 |

Once again, you are hoisted on your own petard. |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 07:45 PM |
#89 |

trash talk aside, you're wrong again |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 10:04 PM |
#90 |
 
You conveniently ignore the analysis which refutes you |
WillE |
Aug-28-09 01:05 AM |
#92 |

And I thought electronic vote counting schema was a pretty iffy way to determine outcomes. |
Wilms |
Aug-28-09 01:33 AM |
#93 |
 
Distracted? Uh, this is a thread about why we should trust computers to count votes in NY, right? nt |
Bill Bored |
Aug-28-09 08:31 PM |
#97 |

you're simply misrepresenting the PA exit polls |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-28-09 07:10 AM |
#94 |

A FREE online book about Kerry's 2004 landslide |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 11:22 PM |
#91 |

TIA FAQ Response Summary Update - Includes 2008 reference |
WillE |
Aug-28-09 09:09 AM |
#95 |

my double dog dare stands n/t |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-28-09 10:26 AM |
#96 |

The analysis that you won't do proves you dead wrong once again. Your move... |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 10:19 AM |
#98 |

sorry, you're still pwned |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 11:11 AM |
#99 |

Your myths vs. the facts. Now show us your cherry-picked PA LV polls |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 12:33 PM |
#100 |

Hmmm. "true activists are winning" you say. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 12:55 PM |
#101 |
 
Show us your numbers and stop whining! |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 01:07 PM |
#102 |
  
I'm whinning. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 01:17 PM |
#104 |
 
Take your pick. Column A or Column B? Steak or Pork? |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 03:20 PM |
#105 |
 
Analysis is anything but black and white. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 03:31 PM |
#106 |
 
HS Litmis test?I have no problem with your having a problem... |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 04:04 PM |
#108 |
 
It's time for you to recognize some facts..... |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 02:44 AM |
#115 |

Gimme an example. |
Wilms |
Aug-30-09 03:07 AM |
#116 |

Strawman. You avoid my question and are putting words in my mouth. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 03:19 AM |
#117 |

Don't be silly! Activism was a result of the radical Bush regime and FL 2000. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 04:25 AM |
#118 |

Activism was muted in 2001; it became widespread in Nov. 2004 |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 10:58 AM |
#119 |

Ah, but most Dems in Congress voted FOR HAVA! They considered themselves to be reformers! |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 09:46 PM |
#120 |

You just don 't get it, do you? |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 10:41 PM |
#121 |

You're still not listening. And may well never. |
Wilms |
Aug-30-09 11:12 PM |
#122 |
 
You avoid the content of the post. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 11:34 PM |
#125 |
 
Human Miscounts? |
Wilms |
Aug-31-09 02:00 AM |
#134 |

I don't CARE what the polls say. They are just polls -- not voting systems. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 11:17 PM |
#123 |

In fact, where are all the true-believers? |
Wilms |
Aug-30-09 11:28 PM |
#124 |

Now it is clear... |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 11:45 PM |
#127 |

I have no troops. |
Wilms |
Aug-31-09 02:03 AM |
#135 |

You really DO have blinders on. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 11:42 PM |
#126 |

You wrote: "No one is contesting that the levers are accurate." Good! Then my work here is done. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 11:46 PM |
#128 |

No, your work has just started.. |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 12:11 AM |
#129 |

Didn't Bush run in 2000? |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-31-09 12:22 AM |
#131 |

Bush was NOT the incumbent in 2k. He was in '04. He had means, motive and opportunity. |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 12:35 AM |
#132 |

Welp, at least we agree that it is a ... |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-31-09 12:51 AM |
#133 |

but, WillE, |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 06:16 AM |
#137 |

You either don't read or you quickly forget: Motive. Means. Opportunity |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 07:53 AM |
#139 |

projection much? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 08:36 AM |
#141 |

of course he can "have it both ways" -- think about it |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 06:06 AM |
#136 |

You want to talk about "blind faith"? OK. |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 08:29 AM |
#140 |

darling, you're in a panic |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 08:57 AM |
#142 |

Show us YOUR numbers. Here is the NY True Vote analysis you WON'T DARE do. |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 09:59 AM |
#143 |

as usual, you have no counter to ANY of my points |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 10:31 AM |
#144 |

You really *are* an optimist!!! n/t |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-31-09 12:20 AM |
#130 |

you didn't respond to any of my points |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 01:16 PM |
#103 |

As usual, you are a no show |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 03:53 PM |
#107 |

care to try again in English? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 04:21 PM |
#109 |

Now about those LVs and Rvs- you have shown us NADA |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 04:54 PM |
#110 |

JIm Lampley on Bradblog in 2005 |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 05:40 PM |
#111 |
 
Must Listen! Jim Lampley of HBO on Bradblog in May 2005 |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 07:05 PM |
#113 |

I recall that interview. Was very happy to hear it. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 07:48 PM |
#114 |

here's an interesting part |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 06:19 AM |
#138 |

no, you haven't |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 05:56 PM |
#112 |
Your feelings or comments on the Holt Bill
[View All]
Replies: 28
 | WillYourVoteB...
| Started: Jul-18 04:21 PM |
#0 |

Holt Bill? |
FLAprogressive |
Jul-18-09 04:28 PM |
#1 |

Holt is supporter of electronic and privatization, generally, so always an imperfect champion. |
MarjorieG |
Jul-18-09 04:29 PM |
#2 |
 
wasnt there an amendment added to allow levers? |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-18-09 09:43 PM |
#5 |

I think we're still trying. When Ellen Theisen, Teresa Hommel and Debra Bowen, etc, met a convention |
MarjorieG |
Jul-19-09 02:01 AM |
#6 |

The bill is flawed - deeply - but some progress is required... |
althecat |
Jul-18-09 09:38 PM |
#3 |
 
clicked on your graphic for scoop |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-18-09 09:42 PM |
#4 |

Holt Bill is GREAT!! |
Democracy Cop |
Jul-19-09 08:35 PM |
#7 |
 
Join NYVV. Like you, they are promoting electronic vote counting. n/t |
Wilms |
Jul-19-09 09:47 PM |
#8 |
 
I am ambivalent about the Holt Bill, but feel that the levers should be allowed |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-19-09 10:19 PM |
#9 |
 
Agree: Holt Bill is GREAT. |
UnitedVoters |
Jul-20-09 09:08 PM |
#10 |

Whoa! ALLCAPS! |
Wilms |
Jul-20-09 10:31 PM |
#11 |

Yes indeed. HOLT BILL IS GREAT. |
UnitedVoters |
Jul-20-09 11:39 PM |
#12 |

"this silly non-issue" |
Wilms |
Jul-20-09 11:58 PM |
#13 |

There ARE pros and cons |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-21-09 01:56 AM |
#14 |

IMHO the pros FAR outweigh the cons -- the Holt bill is great. |
UnitedVoters |
Jul-21-09 09:49 AM |
#15 |

I'm sure you mean well, but the "perhaps" is |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-21-09 12:54 PM |
#16 |
 
My use of the word "perhaps" is absolutely correct because I don't actually know for sure.... |
UnitedVoters |
Jul-21-09 07:06 PM |
#18 |

nope, sorry |
OnTheOtherHand |
Jul-22-09 08:55 AM |
#22 |
 
So if I don't swallow everything a former for-profit vendor says its ad hominem? Sorry NOPE to you. |
UnitedVoters |
Jul-23-09 11:50 AM |
#23 |

welcome to DU "United Voters" and please do tell us more... |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-23-09 12:26 PM |
#24 |

and "UnitedVoters", please tell about your activism |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-23-09 12:27 PM |
#25 |

it's pretty simple, actually |
OnTheOtherHand |
Jul-24-09 08:26 AM |
#28 |

applying YOUR logic directly to YOUR intent PERHAPS |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-23-09 12:34 PM |
#26 |

the new ES&S DS 200 IS a combo DRE and optical scanner |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-21-09 12:57 PM |
#17 |

HR2894 will force it to be used as a non-tabulating ballot marker only... |
UnitedVoters |
Jul-21-09 07:09 PM |
#19 |

See this post. |
Wilms |
Jul-21-09 11:11 PM |
#21 |

It won't pass this session. nt |
Bill Bored |
Jul-21-09 09:21 PM |
#20 |

For the record, I am ambivalent |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-23-09 08:47 PM |
#27 |
How The Election Integrity Story Broke Here On DU - An Interview With Althecat On Oped News
[View All]
Replies: 33
 | althecat
| Started: Jul-11 04:24 AM |
#0 |

Dear ERD... please KnR The Cross Posted GD Thread Here |
althecat |
Jul-11-09 04:26 AM |
#1 |

Out of curiousity why would anyone in DU unrec this thread... its about DU? |
althecat |
Jul-11-09 08:57 PM |
#2 |
 
Du wrong place to promote Bev Harris on anniversary of Andy Stephenson's death |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-11-09 10:06 PM |
#3 |

deleted |
althecat |
Jul-11-09 11:07 PM |
#4 |

May have broke here, but also got buried here |
kster |
Jul-13-09 12:07 AM |
#5 |
 
Hi Kev, |
althecat |
Jul-13-09 01:29 AM |
#6 |

"taken over by difficult people" ? irony considering you honor someone who was banned from DU |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-13-09 01:10 PM |
#7 |
 
If Andy is as magnanimous as you depict him to be (I never knew him) do |
diva77 |
Jul-14-09 01:20 PM |
#15 |

I'm sorry, but you just don't know what we went through back then, |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-14-09 05:47 PM |
#17 |

The OP glorifies someone who screwed alot of people |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-14-09 06:15 PM |
#19 |

No shit, if I was Andy I would haunt every one of them, good God |
kster |
Jul-15-09 12:16 AM |
#22 |

How dare you presume to speak for Andy?! |
Stephanie |
Jul-15-09 03:12 PM |
#26 |

Did the DU, "election reform," four become five I don't think we |
kster |
Jul-17-09 12:20 AM |
#31 |

"Holt" is the bully on a public playground |
kster |
Jul-14-09 02:21 AM |
#9 |
 
I'm not excited about fed leg, but at least Holt isn't raising money off of this issue |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-14-09 02:43 AM |
#10 |
 
we had some HCPB only activists in one county in my state and you know what they got? |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-14-09 03:07 AM |
#11 |
 
KSTR, Holt isn't stopping states from passing their own laws, how's your paper ballot law coming? |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-14-09 12:35 PM |
#14 |
 
I'm looking forward to reading about how you are championing |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-14-09 05:50 PM |
#18 |
 
KSTER, hand counted paper ballots are a "certified" voting system in my state |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-16-09 02:04 AM |
#30 |

Difficult? |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-14-09 09:55 AM |
#12 |

"Bev to blame" for Holt's handling of election reform? |
Wilms |
Jul-14-09 11:28 AM |
#13 |

No, go back and read what I wrote |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-14-09 05:41 PM |
#16 |

I stand by my reply. |
Wilms |
Jul-14-09 10:17 PM |
#20 |

Holt initially was open to discussion |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-15-09 09:11 AM |
#23 |

If that makes you feel better about yourself...by all means. |
Wilms |
Jul-15-09 11:14 AM |
#25 |

You miss the point |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-15-09 03:56 PM |
#27 |

Again, it's a wide range of people. |
Wilms |
Jul-15-09 10:23 PM |
#28 |

Skinner's statement on banning Bev Harris from DU (over her threats and continued disruption of DU) |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-13-09 01:13 PM |
#8 |

kick.nt |
kster |
Jul-14-09 11:05 PM |
#21 |

Rather interesting |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-15-09 10:19 AM |
#24 |
 
David... leaving you out was an oversight |
althecat |
Jul-17-09 03:11 AM |
#32 |

Thank you, Alastair |
Kelvin Mace |
Jul-17-09 11:08 AM |
#33 |

Al, your efforts are appreciated |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-16-09 02:01 AM |
#29 |
Instant Runoff Voting's Unintended Consequences to Democracy
[View All]
Replies: 26
 | WillYourVoteB...
| Started: Jul-06 03:35 PM |
#0 |

Instead of verifying, counting a true first vote, we'd have to use complex electronics, vulnerable |
MarjorieG |
Jul-06-09 04:20 PM |
#1 |
 
IRV works well in my city and ENHANCES election integrity |
xxwwyy |
Jul-07-09 12:54 PM |
#5 |

Burlington Instant Runoff Election riddled with pathologies |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-07-09 08:27 PM |
#8 |

oh, and welcome to DU xxwwyy - but Fair Vote is not noted for election integrity or trasnparency |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-07-09 08:30 PM |
#9 |

seems to work fine here in San Francisco n/t. |
greeneyedboy |
Jul-07-09 02:58 AM |
#2 |
 
That was my understanding - that it really worlks well there. |
truedelphi |
Jul-07-09 03:32 AM |
#3 |
 
Seems? |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-07-09 08:15 PM |
#6 |
 
Grand Jury report on problems with IRV in San Francisco |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 05:07 PM |
#17 |

Sounds to me like a problem in implementation, not an inherent system problem... |
cascadiance |
Jul-07-09 07:02 AM |
#4 |

IRV is "a kind of voting voodoo with election officials in the role of witch doctor" |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-07-09 08:19 PM |
#7 |

People vote now for the lesser of two evils and not their first choice... |
cascadiance |
Jul-07-09 10:06 PM |
#10 |

IRV has entrenched the two-party political system wherever it has been tried |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-07-09 11:28 PM |
#11 |

You just said here that a third party choice could finish ahead of one of the other two... |
cascadiance |
Jul-08-09 12:59 AM |
#12 |

Besides failure to help 3rd parties, IRV makes election rigging easier |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 01:26 AM |
#13 |
 
It isn't about helping third parties, it is about helping the system to represent voters! |
cascadiance |
Jul-08-09 05:39 AM |
#15 |

IRV fails that too, because you can hurt your preferred candidate BY voting FOR him/her |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 05:06 PM |
#16 |

I think you need to explain this because your statement isn't making sense to me... |
cascadiance |
Jul-08-09 05:45 PM |
#18 |

Show documentation where IRV has helped 3rd parties |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 07:26 PM |
#19 |
 
I have NO ties to voting vendors, but I DO see the value to the principles of IRV... |
cascadiance |
Jul-08-09 10:35 PM |
#22 |

whn the largest "non profit" supporting IRV also supports voting vendors |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 11:43 PM |
#24 |

Do you feel that there isn't a problem with the major parties ignoring big segments of the populace? |
cascadiance |
Jul-09-09 12:33 AM |
#26 |

why is Fair Vote, the main IRV proponent - partners with voting vendors? and sells election services |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 07:31 PM |
#20 |

A lot of both flawed and honest companies pursue solving certain problems... |
cascadiance |
Jul-08-09 10:22 PM |
#21 |

you support IRV even though it harms election integrity, doesn't work, confuses voters & raises cost |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 11:41 PM |
#23 |

That's your assessment, not mine... |
cascadiance |
Jul-09-09 12:19 AM |
#25 |

IRV will not usually prevent a STRONG 3rd party from winning |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-08-09 01:28 AM |
#14 |