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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:55 AM
Original message
Witnessing our government sell my land for the "crime" of growing pot
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 08:49 AM by Fly by night
Good (really) early morning, all y'all. It is just past 4:20 am Friday morning in my Tennessee deep hollow home as I start this message, though I have already been up an hour. I've already had my quart of coffee, my quiet time on the porch with my two dogs and the young brown bats that play tag above my head on my front porch, before the sun gets up. I have soaked in the claw-foot tub, and dressed for the day, in shorts, work-boots and (for the moment) my favorite t-shirt from 10,000 Waves out west in the other Santa Fe (NM), on the high road up their mountain.

Most of the pieces I share with all y'all about my life and my views, both considerably colored by my eight year dance with federal weasels over my federal medical marijuana case, have been written quickly, as soon as the incident or the urge allows. This one, for several reasons I am well aware of, has taken longer to start. What follows is (and will be) my memory of witnessing our government sell part of my farm for the crime of growing pot ... and giving it away to four dying neighbors.

I could have written this down Wednesday evening, but instead I sat around a friend's kitchen table, with his wife and his kids, to let the day out somewhere I would not be alone (and where I would certainly be understood). These folks have been my friends for 30+ years and they are the most complete married couple I know. They were the right place to start this process Wednesday evening.

I also could have written this any time yesterday – Thursday. Instead, I took advantage of our recent three inch rain to pull more pliant weeds in my late summer Garden all day, to begin the process of building my bookend compost piles, to the north and south of my raised-bed rows, with the offal, the refuse, the wild growth (what little of it) still inhabits my 40+ year organic bread-basket that breaths just beyond my front-porch -- my Garden. She kept me busy and distracted almost all day (with the help of some donated sour diesel from a Nashville friend that provided more reflective fuel for my internal fire). The more time I spent with Her,the more it was clear that She had been neglected by me in the past minutes and seconds, as my hip and the impending loss of my land intervened. Yesterday, I began to make amends to Her and we worked together for hours, Her donating the random weeds that had sprouted in Her presence and me accepting them as a deposit on next year's abundance.

So, after two days of cogitating, here goes. On Wednesday, I drove 60 miles – one way – to witness our government sell some of my land at what should have been the final chapter in my fight to save my farm. The thing is, in saving most of my farm, I have learned just how far my country – or the fundamental, freedom-loving foundation of it – has been lost in our war on (some) drugs. So read and weep (or get mad as hell) and let me hear from you. All y'all -- my virtual friends, my fellow warriors for science, common sense and compassion, my fellow protectors and benefactors of the Goddess.

Here goes ....

It was early when I got up Wednesday, but not too early. The forced sale of my 25 acres (as a plea bargain to save the remaining 147 acres) was not happening until 1:45 pm and it was just now 5:30 am. But the joys of living in my country include ritual, both of necessity and of intention, and my rituals spread out in front of me to fill the hours before my trip north began. No rain yet (three weeks dry here, in almost constant 110 degree heat index, brutal), so I spent an hour hosing cold spring water onto the two late summer Garden rows – the ones with alternating sweet corn and cantaloupes, with one section of sunflowers and another of late yellow crook-neck squash. Soaking them down as much as possible, them and my out-of-place baby watermelons, beginning to look like they just might feed me (and others) yet. Time to (not) kill, time to breathe.

Getting centered is always good, and it was good on Wednesday. In truth, I had been preparing for this day for eight years but, since the government had sprung the sale out of the blue last month, it was still something I was not really prepared for. (As my late (psychiatrist) daddy used to say, "the healing of a fractured relationship does not begin with the separation, but the divorce.") At that moment, though, the 25 acres was not still mine (having signed it over to the weasels in December), but it was not yet someone else's. That was coming now, though, like a freight train.

One good thing about recovering from my hip surgery is that I have become more intentional with my time away from the farm. So today, knowing that I would have to drive north of Nashville to lose my land, I made a list of everything that needed doing in Nashville. Delivering a big sack of sweet basil to a new friend to feed her sons, returning books and movies ("Apocalypse Now") to an older friend, making copies at Kinko's and eating green curry at the International Market. There was more (other) stuff to do, and so I left the land by mid-morning.

The drive to Nashville always provides two choices – follow the Natchez Trace on its secluded gentle roller-coaster ride along the "Path of Peace" or take Old Hillsboro road. The second choice allows me to drive a little bit faster, and to stop in Leiper's Fork, which I did for gas. Another hour or so in and around Nashville completing the chores and there was nothing left to do but show up to the sale. For all that I had done to distract myself, I was still the third one there.

It remains weird that the feds had chosen not to sell my land actually – you know – on the land. Maybe they knew that their extortion of me still rubbed my neighbors, as well as the local media and medical marijuana activists in lots of places, the wrong way and that some of them might show up to shine a "shame on you" light on their activities. Certainly the fact that my neighbors had spent weeks tearing down the gaudy yellow "auction" signs the feds had paid to litter around our back roads, depositing them at the head of my driveway each morning, might have given them a clue. So, for whatever reason, the feds bundled my land with four other sales and conducted the auction as far from my farm as they could get. I am sure they will claim efficiency as their motive – I will always and forever claim it was chicken-shit.

When I arrived at the tidy brick house near an industrial park in Whites Creek, the auctioneers had just started unloading their papers and other equipment. There were a few folks there, including one (a new neighbor I had just met in the weeks leading up to the sale) who had told me he would bid. Then I noticed another neighbor, a carpenter who had built the sun-porch on my home, who was there with another friend of his in hopes of getting the land too. There were at least three other groups of folks, a young man with a "Co-op" hat and his dad, two husky country-looking boys probably in their 40s and an withered old man standing next to a G. Gordon Liddy look-alike. All those folks had made the drive to bid on my land, and they made up two-thirds of the crowd.

In addition to taking bids there, these very efficient auctioneers (who had told me they do a "lot of this" for the government, so they knew their deal) were equipped to accept on-line and phone bids. But they were there to move fast, and then to move on.

Two of the five pieces sold before mine, both nice homes in nice neighborhoods in Clarksville and Nashville. The second one, an almost 3,000 square foot home that looked very substantial and well-maintained in the photos at the auction, went for less than $20,000 – in less than two minutes. Everyone there looked as amazed as me. I would know in a minute just what my land would bring.

But, first, as background (and to introduce a little suspense), let me remind all y'all that my surrendering this 25 acres was to prevent a "summary judgment" decision by my federal judge to give the feds my entire 172 acre farm or to place a permanent $250,000 lien on my property to satisfy our government's view of justice in my case. Justice that, in their opinion, had not yet been satisfied by my $60,000 in legal bills $500,000 in lost salary, eighteen months in a federal Bureau of Prisons halfway house and three years ever since unemployed.

For the crime of growing seven pounds of pot and giving it away to four terminally ill neighbors, a crime that I never denied I committed from the moment that two helicopters and ten four-wheelers descended on my farm. One big lesson here – if you cooperate with the feds, they will want to know just how much bull-shit you can take. (Obviously I can take a lot)

Our final plea agreement, in which I surrendered the 25 acres, saved the rest of my farm and saved me from having to live under the burden of a $quarter-million$ lien for the rest of my life. The feds agreed to take whatever they could get for the 25 acres, in return for which they agreed to get out of my life. (More on that later.)

At the time of our plea agreement, the feds' appraiser had estimated that the 25 acres was worth between $170,000 - $220,000, and that appraisal (I am sure) is what turned the tide toward a final resolution last December. Now back to the sale.


The bidding on my land opened with an on-line bid — of $30,000. (My guess is that this bid came from Arizona, where two other new friends who had already bought 15 acres from me that fronted the 25 acres (for $125,000, two years ago) were trying to protect their rears – and mine.) People whistled in the crowd, and a few jumped in with slightly higher bids. But there was to be no feeding frenzy here today. The bidding quickly stalled, the unseen internet bidders fell silent, and the land was sold ..... for $35,000. To the G. Gordon Liddy look-alike – the only person at the auction who looked out-of-place for my bucolic 'hood.

No matter. After shaking hands with the folks there I knew (as well as to the country folks I did not), I went over and shook G. Gordon's hand, told him who I was and said I would be happy to answer his questions. The first thing that was obvious was that he had never even bothered to look at my land beforehand. He asked how much road frontage came with the land (my answer: "None"). He asked how big the pond was on the land. (My answer" "What pond?") He asked about the driveway. (My answer: there is an unimproved easement, back to the start of the land, but that will require building a 300 yard+ driveway that doesn't now exist.) With each of my answers, G. Gordon's mustache drooped a bit more.

I saved the best news for him to experience in the flesh. I neglected to tell G. Gordon that his new land in the country was bordered by the no-longer-young man from whom I bought the land a decade ago (to keep my then-young neighbor from losing the land to an alcohol and cocaine-fueled bankruptcy) and that neighbor had just moved two dilapidated trailers into his side field to join the dozen rusting cars and trucks up on bricko–blocks already scattered all along my (former) land's western view. Everyone else who bid on my land on Wednesday knew about that scenery. G. Gordon did not.

I can't wait to see his face.

So that was it, folks. Seven years of heart-ache ended in three minutes of cold-cash bids. I was glad (I suppose) that it was over. And I was very glad that my land brought so little to the feds. In fact, I drove home hoping that the last prosecutor I dealt with (dense between the ears, deficient in the heart) would choke on the news of the pitiful return the land brought. Choke on it ... and die.

I have learned and (and re-learned, one day at a time) that keeping an attitude of gratitude is the best way to face everything and recover. So it was on Wednesday. But two things kept eating me, and I suspect they always will. Unbeknownst to me and to my neighbors who bid on the land, they were instructed before the sale that the US Marshalls had imposed another restriction on the sale of my land that would prohibit anyone that day (including, especially, me) from bidding on the land with the intention of selling it or otherwise returning it to me. They repeated that extra-judicial restriction (which none of us, including my judge, knew about or acquiesced to) several times before the sale. Mind you, no one was there to buy the land for me, and I hardly have a pot to piss in these days, much less more money to throw down a fetid federal rat-hole. But just the thought of that final example of arrogant federal flatulence posing for law-and-order reminded me of it all.

And some of that "all" was what the 25 acres meant to me. Even though it was not part of my original farm, it was land that I learned to cut and haul hay on (when I helped my young neighbor's daddy, Sharkey Shouse, put up hay for his jacks and jennies). It was land that I had fenced, not once but twice. It was land I had kept clean, before it was my land and after. It was land from which I had cut firewood, and witnessed the wonder of an ice-storm's aftermath, coating the tall grass and every hanging tree twig and branch with ice that sparkled like a billion little prismic rainbows. That was what that 25 acres meant to me.

What it was to the feds was one more chance to drown the American dream in the drug war's civil asset forfeiture bath-tub, one more chance to demonstrate that growing pot is the crime that keeps on punishing – more than murder, more than rape, more than election fraud or fouling our seas. More than almost anything.

That is where I want to leave all y'all this morning. But – to be clear – I am not leaving you at the end of this story. I am leaving you in the middle of this struggle. No one else (or precious few) should have to go through what my last eight years have been. Our failed war on drugs – and the steroided, well-armed, civil liberties-trampling "drug worriers" that it has unleashed like so many rabid flying monkeys on us – has got to stop. And it has to stop soon.

I helped elect President Obama (almost all of us did) for many reasons, including his pledge to allow cannabis/marijuana to be returned to the medical pharmacopoeia. I celebrated when AG Holder announced last October that the feds would no longer go after participants in lawfully-established state medical marijuana programs. I have been encouraged by the number of states (14 now and DC) who have re-established medical marijuana programs and the several dozen (including Tennessee) who are not far behind. Indeed, there is much to be grateful for.

At the same time, I had to drive 120 miles round-trip on Wednesday for the privilege of witnessing the sale of land that was (and will always be) a piece of my heart. And, three times in the three weeks before that sale, I have experienced my farm being buzzed, low and loud, by the farces of evil – low enough to rattle my windows and blow down my late summer sweet corn – ostensibly looking for pot that only a fool or an insane person (or someone broke and in pain) would plant. Though I have been some of the above, I have not (yet) been all three.

My only recourse for these illegal low-level fly-overs has been to drop my shorts and invite the pilot to fly up my ass. After that temporary relief, my other response has been -- and always will be -- to keep working to overturn the laws that keep these worthless and irrelevant cowardly cowboys in the air. That will be my life's work. I hope it is yours too.

From the banks of my creek, just south of my Garden, on what's left of my farm.

Peace out. Y'all come.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R, sorry to hear of your misfortune..
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Recommend
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
60. Not one crook on Wall Sreet had their billions taken from them.
It's sickening how the government can seize all of the property from people who have even a small quantity of drugs, but you can steal billions and destroy our economy and not be punished at all. If you steal enough you get to keep the millions or billions you steal.

Drug forfeiture laws need to be eliminated and instead have the government seize stolen property and cash from wealthy white collar criminals. No one at BP or on Wall Street have spent a day in jail even though their crimes destroyed our environment or the economy. The reason why the rich are insulated from any punishments are because they own our government and they write our laws.

We need white collar forfeiture laws to take every dime, mansion and luxury car from anyone guilty of stealing more than a million dollars. And then force these criminals to never be able to accumulate more than $12,000 a year for the rest of these lives. At least then they might begin to understand how their criminal actions caused great harm to others.

We need to END the war on drugs and legalize their use, especially marijuana.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #60
115. I like the way you think.
I could really get behind this law. :applause:

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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
124. A Brooks Brothers Suit and a frat brother in office
would have got you a bailout.It never ceases to amaze me how unequal our justice system has become. I have seen even the so-calleed "liberals" here yell about how minor property criminals like car thieves should be locked up (read the post on the dead cat), but the real monsters are never punished. When Koch Industries was caught they just paid a fine. In the last great theft of Democracy only "Scooter"
went to jail briefly. No one from AIG or Goldman Sachs need worry. "The law in its majestic equality forbids both the rich and the poor from begging, stealing bread, and sleeping under bridges. You could find more than eight pounds of pot in just about any penthouse in New york.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #60
128. Brilliant!
"White collar forfeiture laws" to take every dime, mansion and luxury car from anyone guilty of stealing more than a million dollars.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
134. Yet our 'liberal' Presidents haven't supported liberalisation of drug laws. n/t
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
180. +100,000,000,000 and a million more!
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. So they did leave you some land-some part of your farm?
'Sorry, but I missed your earlier posts. How did the government arrive at what they could seize and sell and what they left to you?

If only we allowed for common sense to drive drug policy. My sympathies, but I'm pretty impressed by your ability to put the anger aside and to keep on going.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Here's some background on my case
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 09:00 AM by Fly by night
A short YouTube clip (from the documentary, "The Human Costs of Marjuana Prohibition"), four articles and a link to the web-site created for me to help save the farm when I was locked up in the "house". /

Enjoy (if that's the right word).
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Heavens, what a story... Get thee to a publisher and get a book out
on your experiences. Truly. It is an important story... I've glad you've come through this with a positive attitude and didn't let it destroy you. I hope your health is ok. All the best to you! (from one PH professional to another--kudos)
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
70. I second that. Please publish Bernie, you write so well and have a helluva tale to tell. nt
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #70
86. Third this.
My heart is with you. :hug:
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #86
114. Fourth this. And congratulations for being able to keep the majority of your property.
And for the lack of financial return for the power-outlet-nosed ones. :thumbsup:
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
119. Publish!!!!! Lemonade from lemons and all that!!
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sorry for your loss
You write so easy to read, anyways you need to start writing and doing a lot of it. It seems to come naturally to you. The picture you paint with words is so beautiful.

Have as good of a day as you possibly can is my wish for you today
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's my hope that you are writing this all
so that it can become the book that tears apart the injustice system that has been perpetrated on the American people for these many years.

I am so sorry for the pain this has caused you. It will be made right. I don't know how or when, but I trust that by working together it WILL be made right.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm really sorry to hear you've had to swim upstream like this over some nonsense.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is so terribly f*cked up and yet...
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 08:30 AM by Liberation Angel
many people are unaware of the great risks that happen when you grow your own.

I can't smoke weed myself (although I had my college years etc heh) but the main reason I stopped was because of the risks and because I did get arrested when I was a kid (well, 21) and almost went to jail for a long time in a very regressive pot-law state.

It is one reason I became a lawyer because of these injustices.

My sympathies and empathy are with you.

I actually have a film project on this subject and maybe I can interview you.

You can check out my youtube site linked in my sig line below. It deals a lot with fascism generally and resistance but the medical marijuana issue is good material for film and I have a script in the works on that as well.

Great piece of writing btw! K&R!!!
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you Fly
for continuing the struggle... and for being an excellent human.


Have you ever written up your saga? Ever had any serious publicity? (Rolling Stone, major paper, news show?) I think the more that people see that good, kind, compassionate folk have been railed by the WOD, the less likely they are to blindly support it.

Good luck Bernie...

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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. Can I ask a question...
without being jumped on?

Before, or during the time when, you grew pot, did you know that it was illegal, and if you were caught doing it, what the penalty would be?

Because, you know, I am sympathetic to your plight. I don't think pot...either its use, or the growing of it...should be illegal.

But it is.

And people who know it's illegal but do it anyway, aren't they really bringing their own trouble upon themselves?

Honestly, I don't understand the mindset. People know "X" is illegal, they should also be willing to pay the consequences for doing that illegal thing....


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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Its simple, the laws are fascist and people resist them because it is necessary to resist evil
Growing marijuana and giving it or even selling it (to pay for the costs of growing it) to those who need it as medicine is a necessity to prevent suffering.

The fascist want us to suffer.

But such civil disobedience should not be a crime. We do know that these consequences exist, but to some it is simply survival and righteous activism.

The "trouble" is broughht by fascism and the laws.

But of course we know that fascists do not want us to alleviate suffering and we know they will make us pay (even with our lives sometimes)

I would say do not blame the victims here.

Blame fascism.

But you do have to pay the piper if you want to dance. He paid the fascist pipers a heavy price for being a righteous human being.

Criticizing or berating him for that would be wrong.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. I didn't criticize or berate anybody...
And while I realize that some things should not even BE crimes, the fact is that some things are.

And if a person knows that something is a crime, and knows the penalties but does it anyway, like you said, he has to pay the piper.

Not act like our government arbitrarily decided to sell his land.

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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. riiiiiiggght
Again, your ignorance of the history of social justice movements is simply stunning. Try reading a bit before offering an opinion on such matters, even if that opinion is framed as a question.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. And you don't make yourself right
by being rude and obnoxious.

This isn't about "social justice".

It's about KNOWING something is a crime that is prosecuted on a daily basis, and then whining about the consequences.

Did Rosa Parks whine about being a victim? I don't think so. She knew what she did was a "crime" in those days and did it anyway. But she was ready, willing, and able to accept the consequences without whining and making herself a "victim".

I think my opinion would have been a whole lot different if people hadn't enabled the "victim" mentality by feeling sorry for someone who knowingly flouted the law.

Encourage rebellion...some laws need to be changed.

Rebellion is a good thing.

Encouraging the victim mentality? Well that just sucks.

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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
93. Now, I'm really confused.
Who exactly is the whiner?
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
131. So Rosa Parks wasn't a victim of racism?
I think your problem is that you do not grok the semantics.

You are blaming the victims for complaining about oppression because they "broke the law". The laws themselves are crimes against humanity.

It is a pity that you do not see this and still accuse the OP of "whining"

That is shameful, I am sad to say.

You should be ashamed of yourself (and stop being so self righteous too)


It is terribly unseemly.

And Rosa Parks was not really making a statement. She was just tired and that was the only available seat and that was a f*cking crime. This man did not WANT to break any law, he wanted to bring hewasling to thew sick. Sure they knew there might be a price to pay fto the fascists, but doing the right thing was more important.

I''ve had this debate before: It peeves me when people say WELL if you violate and unjust law then you should willingly accept that you have commit a crime and do the time and be happy about it and quit whining.

That, to me, is BS.

If the law is a crime then breaking it is no crime and being pissed and hurt because fascists think it is is the natural and really only human response.

You should empathize not call him a whining self-created victim.

Nothing could be much further from the truth of this matter.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
139. This man's story is "whining" . . . . ??? And you don't question the "consequences".... ???
Did you hear the government response to his giving assistance to ill neighbors?

Prison -- legal fees -- interferences with his ability to be employed --

threatened lien on his property -- and finally the loss of 25 acres valued at

close to $200,000 sold for $35,000??

Is this what you want your government to be doing?

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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. I did not say that you did. BUT...
Certainly the decision to prosecute and to sell the land was arbitrary, capricious and an abuse of discretion as a legal matter.

It was an abuse of his and the patients' Constitutional rights.

The criminals here are the prosecutors imho, not the victims. Which "crime" is greater, getting medicine to the sick who need it or stealing a person's land for doing that.

Is all I'm sayin'.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I will answer your question with another question
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 09:36 AM by Tsiyu
Can I ask a question? Without being jumped on?

Before, or during the time when you made your post, were you aware that for many people, cannabis provides the only safe, effective relief for their pain, nausea, muscle tremors, stiffness, anxiety, depression, flashbacks, nightmares and/or lack of appetite? Were you aware, when you made your post, that adults ought to be able to choose between cannabis and other pharm products which substances they - those grown, free American adults - put into their own bodies and what side effects they are willing to endure to get relief?

Because, you know, I'm not really sympathetic to people who say "but it's illegal." As a female, I know it used to be illegal for me to vote or own property, and I never made the illegality of either something I would show even the slightest regard toward.

But yet, some people can only see the "rule" and never actually look at the people affected by that rule. Some people can only see the "rule" and can never think beyond it.

Honestly, I don't understand that mindset.

"The legislators, Prison Industry, law enforcement agencies, all make a boatload persecuting sick people and those who help them....and I can see families torn apart, jobs and lives destroyed, but I, John Q. Public, think it's all YOUR OWN FAULT!!!! So just deal with it!!!!"

Maybe the help people receive from Cannabis is what makes them take such a risk. When you know someone suffering, the "rules" don't mean jack shit.

This post was about the consequences; the OP appears to know them well. If your only observation is that "the law makes this illegal," thanks, but we already know this.

This post begs these questions, rather than your own:


"How can we change this so more people are not hurt?"
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Sorry, but sarcasm doesn't make your case any stronger
As I said

I am not unsympathetic to the need for medical marijuana, or even marijuana just for the sake of smoking it.

It shouldn't even be a crime to smoke or grow it.

But. It. Is.

people are totally missing my point.

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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. no, we "get" your incredibly myopic "point". you are not misunderstood.
You're just wrong, no matter how you try to sneak your sycophancy into the form of a question.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
30.'s just so incredibly
healthy and helpful to not only BE a "victim" but to encourage someone else to be one as well.

Let's all be victims.

Because, you know...victims don't have power. Victims just get kicked around and screwed over and abused.

"It's a law that shouldn't exist, but it does, and I flouted it and look at what these EVIL people did to me!!!!

I'm nothing but a victim!!!"



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
76. But we ARE victims when our government
becomes oppressive. What else do you call oppressed people?

Since I became aware of this case a few weeks ago and began reading about it, I did not see someone with a victim 'mentality'. I saw a victim FIGHT BACK. And he has a right to describe that fight to the rest of the world.

Were the Founding Father's whining when they complained about the British king's unfair laws? Maybe it is justified to complain sometimes?

If someone punches you in the face, then you punch back but they knock you out because they are far more powerful, is it whining to relate what happened in an honest way, rather than pretending to be happy about it?

I do not see whining in the writings of Fly By Night, I see a documented case of gross injustice in a very regressive society which will remain that way if more people do not have the courage to stand up and fight.
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. That isn't sarcasm. It is making a point.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. And I wonder what "point" that would be?
That I'm way too stupid to understand the dubious "complexities" of not whining about doing something one knows is illegal?

That enabling someone else's victimhood makes them so much more intelligent and "moral" than someone of my limited mental capacities?

You know, I'm not even saying "never flout a law".

What I AM saying is that if you're going to flout a law, don't bitch and whine and cry about it when the expected happens.

In other words, don't be a Professional Victim.

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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. You are acting like a very sad, myopic, thread hijacker who is extremely self-absorbed
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 11:26 AM by slampoet
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. You are acting like a very sad, myoptic, thread hijacker
who is extremely self-absorbed and does not have enough compassion to fill a thimble. Don't be surprised if no one wants to converse with you.
For those of us in the election reform movement who count Bernie as our virtual friend, he is just keeping us posted on his life and times. I for one, value the man, the friendship and honor his struggle. I have a picture of his farm sitting in my office window. He lives in my heart through his writings. I have learned a lot from him.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
90. Well stated. In Wisconsin pressure is coming forward to legalize
this helpful herb.

March 24,2010

The bill, currently pending in the Wisconsin Legislature, is the Jacki Rickert Medical Marijuana Act, which would allow for the use and growth of medicinal cannabis in the treatment of certain illnesses.

Among the speakers present were Gary Storck, president of Wisconsin NORML and spokesperson for IMMLY, veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, an Ojibwa Indian performer and others who have diseases for which they say medicinal cannabis is the best option.

“We are here today to raise prayers and awareness in the state Legislature,” Storck said. “We can’t go another (legislative) session without having legally available to people who can benefit from it.”
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