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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:24 PM
Original message
Cynthia McKinney - Obama Buyer's Remorse
(I don't agree with her views but I still wanted to post this for those who hadn't seen it).

http://www.voxunion.com/?p=1085

Of late, Im been approached by four types of voters: one voter type knew about our Power to the People campaign and enthusiastically supported it. They find themselves in the position of not wanting to say, I told you so too loudly, but certainly say it among themselves and to each other.

Increasingly, though, theres another type of voter that is contacting me, expressing Buyers Remorse for having supported candidate Barack Obama. These voters can be futher subdivided into three categories: those who voted for Obama, not knowing very much about our Power to the People campaign; those who voted for Obama, knowing a lot about Rosa, me, and the Power to the People campaign, but who chose instead to vote for Obama out of fear of a McCain/Palin White House; and finally, those who knew about our Power to the People campaign and were hostile to it because they were suspicious that our campaign was designed to deny the White House to candidate Obamathe spoiler campaign. Fortunately and hopefully, because of the integrity with which we ran our campaign, those in this latter category are few in terms of their numbers in communication with me.

For me, the number of people contacting me expressing regret for having voted for Obama is a double-edged sword. That is, it indicates that prior to the election, we were not able to seal the deal with a significant number of our natural voters. There are many reasons for that, but being severely underfunded lies at the base of that failing. However, on the other hand, these expressions of buyers remorse indicate that people knowingly allowed themselves to be swept into the voting booth and vote against their values.

I am happy that more and more people are freely expressing their support for the platform of the Power to the People campaign. I am extremely happy that more and more people express their interest in supporting me in another political endeavor, be it another Congressional or White House run. I am particularly pleased that people are willing to explore the possibilities that politics outside the box of two-party conformity can provide. But I have to admit that I am saddened by the fact that so many people fail to understand that in the transaction of a political election, there is no warranty for buyers remorse. The crescendo of well-financed political propaganda is all geared toward achieving the desired result on election day and there is no denouement.

The desired result is to have as many voters as possible stay within the political confines of either of the two special interest parties because their candidates have already been vetted and have agreed to certain restrictions in the area of public policy. Thats why our Power to the People campaign was the only one talking about instituting full employment and a living wage, subsidizing education through college so that students would not have to take out loans to go to college, creating green jobs (like solar panel manufacture) in neighborhoods blighted by abandoned big box buildings, having former Comptroller of the U.S. David Walker perform audits of the companies that got bailout money, nationalizing the Federal Reserve, creating publicly owned neighborhood banks, thereby finally creating an economy that worked for the people instead of the special interests. And shutting down the military-industrial complexs Empire America.

Our agenda provided a clear route to an end to torture, rendition for torture, warrantless wiretapping, spying on U.S. citizen activists, and an end to war. Not just an end to the war on terror, but a clear end to war and occupation. And now that the Obama Administration has used its Justice Department to argue in court in favor of those who ordered torture, and to defend Bush Administration policies of torture, rendition, warrantless wiretapping, and extra-legal treatment of so-called enemy combatants, most of whom have committed no crime (like six-year Guantanamo Prisoner number 345, Sami El-Hajj, who was on the Dignity with me as I tried to make it to Gaza). On these issues, the Obama Administration is consonant with the Bush Administration. No wonder Bush et al have more to worry about from the small-d democrats in Spain than from the big-D Democrats in Washington, DC.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have no remorse. I think my President is doing a good job. I guess
she's entitled to her opinion, I choose not to read it.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. The old head in sand approach, eh?
""I choose not to read it""

Yes, Gawd forbid you choose to read something that might, just might get you to question your beliefs!! That's the way to stay edumacated, right?

Thankfully not everyone is so hard-headed. What she has to say makes a lot of sense in the light that some in our party do side with the slave owners against us slaves. Given who Ms. McKinney is and her history, she does have a better picture of the slave/slave-owner realities and she elucidates that vision well.

But you choose not to read it?? And some people wonder why this country is in such a mess....
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. You knock yourself out. Cynthia McKinney is a sore loser and is
only out to promote herself. I need not read her hit piece on the President. Since you don't know my history, I don't think you can tell me how her ramblings will open my eyes to anything. I hope whatever she writes educates you to the fullest! Enjoy!
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Sore loser?
Anyone who is not in the upper class is a 'loser'. And she speaks well for us losers. You don't want to hear any of it and you are so bold as to tell everyone, that it makes me wonder if you think you are one of the 'winners'.
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Synicus Maximus Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
243. How is an ex- Representative daughter of another ex-Represent ive
not upper class? Cynthia was my congress person and is a nice person but she is not middle or lower class.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #43
65. I don't think she thought she would win, so she's not a "sore loser" -- I admire McKinney very much
Edited on Tue May-05-09 09:19 AM by LostinVA
I almost voted for her in the General Election.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #65
268. I don't know, Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes.
Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens.

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Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #37
50. I also chose...
...not to read this.

Should I read diatribes by Glen Beck just because he questions my beliefs? Pol Pot? Timothy McVeigh?

No...I am not really comparing McKinney to the previous mentioned assholes, but why should I bother to read something that I will disagree with and will not convince me otherwise?

This country is in a mess for a lot of reasons...the least of which being some people not reading some hit piece by a kook.



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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. Close mind, eh?
""...should I bother to read something that I will disagree with""

That's a typical closed mind reaction. And McKinney is nowhere near your list of her opposites.

I read it and while I don't totally agree, she makes some good points. Read it and see for yourself.
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Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
84. Agreed...
...that McKinney is no where near the Pol Pot and Tim McViegh - but some of her rants (and I have read many of them) have been close to Glenn Beck in off kilter ridiculousness.

I did read the article...I was just being obtuse to make a point. Looks as though I failed...happens a lot.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #50
62. I wouldn't exactly compare McKinney to Pol Pot.
She's a little out there on some issues, but she isn't advocating genocide. She's just got another point of view, and I think she's earned the right to be heard and have her views attended to.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #50
94. You chose not to read but are posting anyway
Edited on Tue May-05-09 10:56 AM by proud2BlibKansan
LOL
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
121. Cynthia McKinney is nothing less than a complete
whack job who needs to crawl back under her rock where she belongs. Why anyone still bothers to listen to her useless paranoid drivel gibberish is beyond me.

I wonder how she would have liked President McCain and VP Palin. Something tells me her simple mind doesn't even begin to grasp how different it would be and not in a good way. She's just one of those "celebs" who always has to have something to bitch about and is NEVER happy with ANYTHING. Oh, and did I mention what a total, complete paranoid whack job she is? Nothing she writes or says deserves any attention whatsoever.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #121
167. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
104. Same here. McKinney used to be my rep
I will always respect her for her time in office, but it looks like she has lost her bearings.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. So I gather that the sun revolves around the Power to the People campaign?
Edited on Mon May-04-09 09:28 PM by Xipe Totec
As if that was the only criteria on which to base support for Obama?

A little self-absorbed IMHO.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Self-serving sore loser. n/t
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just completed my quarterly remorse check. None was found.
Ms. McKinney is mistaken, as national polling clearly indicates.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. (shrug) A month old article from someone who's in the 25% who doesn't like Obama. That's nice.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sorry, Cynthia, but I'm not--and the vast majority of Obama voters are happy with their choice.
Sorry you're becoming a female Ralph Nader--there's treatment for that now.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm pretty damn happy.
It's been a little over 100 days and it's amazing the shit that's starting to show up on DU more and more. Who fucking needs this? There's being critical, and then there's this BULLSHIT being splattered all over DU. Go lament with the freepers if you're so disgusted with Obama. They'd love to have you.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. McKinney is way out there on the fringe. Ignore. nt
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yeah I was reading that she actually appeared at an anti-semitic thing
hosted by KKK. I don't exactly know how that worked but, yeah. She's fringe.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. It's sad. I don't like to watch it. nt
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
67. Link?
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
124. She's been a blatant, unapologetic anti-semite
for years, she's totally disgusting. She and her father blamed her congressional loss several years ago, before she won again two years later, all on "teh joooooooooos." Fucking bigoted whack job.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #124
131. Um, her father said that, not her.
Feel free to carry on with your frothing-at-the-mouth, though.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. Yes, and she's made more than enough of her own
hateful anti-semitic statements. And she should know all about frothing at the mouth statements as well. Nice try, thanks for playing.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. For instance?
Come on, show me something she's said that's anti-semitic. :shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #132
135. You do this in every thread about Cynthia and you never produce anything
to back it up. If she really were an anti-semite, it wouldn't be very hard to show, would it?

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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #135
161. No, no, I'm sure he's still looking.
:sarcasm:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #161
171. I've met Cynthia and in the company of every kind of progressive
including Jews. She didn't turn green, smoke didn't come out of her ears and she didn't shout blood libels. She was terrific.

This anti-semitism libel is bullshit. I'd think people would be more careful of the horrible things they say about people they don't know.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #171
180. I hope to meet her someday as well.
The only thing keeping me from voting for her this time around was the fact that I live in a swing state, and even that decision was made at the very last minute after pining over it for weeks.
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #171
237. Bullshit?
She doesn't have to scream anti-semitic remarks and blame it all on the "J-E-W-S" as her father so famously did after his defeat. She lets the New-Black Panther Party do it for her.

Following McKinney's concession speech, a reporter attempted to ask the Congresswoman why she thought she lost. The New Black Panther member interrupted, shouting, "Why do you think she lost? You wanna know what led to the loss? Israel. The Zionists. You. Put on your yarmulke and celebrate."

"This incident is reminiscent of the 2002 campaign in which Rep. McKinney's father "blamed the J-E-W-S" for her defeat," said Ms. Rose. "Rep. McKinney did not distance herself from the anti-Semitic comments then, and her service in Congress has been clouded by a perception that she also harbors such feelings."

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4869_12.htm

McKinney is at best a conspiracy theorist and at worst a functioning paranoid, she doesn't hide her hate for the "Zionist" very well either. I will never understand why anyone with half a brain takes her seriously. You seem to be the only one on this thread doing so.

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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #237
264. No "proof" here
Edited on Thu May-07-09 12:45 AM by ProudDad
just your paranoid lame opinion....

Still waiting for "proof" of her "antisemitism". <crickets>


Hint: Being against the fascist theocracy that "governs" Israel is NOT anti-Semitic...
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #264
266. Calling me "paranoid"
while coming to the defense of one of the most paranoid people this side of Lyndon LaRouche is absolutely hilarious and I am sure it is completely lost on you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
130. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
134. LOL!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
172. link x 2?
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. The only remorse I could have would have been to vote for Cynthia..
fortunately I never have.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. No remorse here.
Edited on Mon May-04-09 10:00 PM by WilliamPitt
There's a whole sub-set of political-circuit people who made their living traveling the country getting paid to criticize Bush. Now that he's gone, they're critics without a target, i.e. without a paycheck...unless they find a new one.

Same phenomenon as the people who made bank ragging on Clinton for whatever. It's called "the rubber-chicken circuit," and it's been going on since Washington and Jefferson's day.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I didn't know that.
thanks for that education about the rubber chicken circuit.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I say this with sadness
Edited on Mon May-04-09 10:09 PM by WilliamPitt
...but it's a fair portion of the whole 9/11 conspiracy thing, and a large part of why legitimate 9/11 inquiries have fallen apart. Someone's out there peddling "thermite bombs took down the Towers/missile hit the Pentagon" because enough people are willing to pay to hear it...but those assinine theories have subsumed legitimate lines of inquiry, cuz those didn't pay.

10% of the country will pay handomely to hear someone tell them their worst fears are true...and there are plenty of people willing to fleece that 10%. It's true on both sides of the political aisle. Why do you think so many demonstrably deranged right-wing conspiracy theories never die? Vince Foster, drug-running at the Mena airport, the Clinton Body Count, etc.? It's because someone gets paid to keep those stories alive by keeping them alive. Bev Harris is another example: taking legitimate inquiries into electronic voting machines and subsuming the entire investigation with nonsense out of a motive for profit.

Permanent critics, out of their niche but still milking the cow.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Agreed.
The main knock on McKinney is that she's gone too far, she's fringe, she's critical of Israel (all things that have been said about Obama too, incidentally, and by all the wrong people) etc.

However, I've never seen Cynthia McKinney make a fuss over something that she didn't believe in, and didn't communicate thoughtfully and passionately about. Hardly someone I would accuse of being a cynical bottom-feeder.

She took her office to the limit, and was the opposite of everything that we complain about in our Dems...too timid, afraid to tackle the wrong people or the elephant in the room. People are all for a brass-knuckle Dem who's willing to sacrifice their political career for what they believe is right until they get one and realise how messy actual change is.

Cynthia McKinney was made an example of over and over again, humiliated, taken out of context, all because she wasn't willing to play the game. And she's still out there doing it, despite all of that.

But now she's just a nutty, cynical person just because she's not satisfied with Obama. That's ignorant bullshit. Based on everything we know about Cynthia McKinney, OF COURSE SHE'S NOT SATISFIED WITH OBAMA. That's evidence of consistency, of character, not cynical calculation. I don't agree with it, but I don't think she's doing it for selfish reasons. Indeed, only a fool would think that there was some personal benefit in taking on Obama from the left. And I don't think McKinney is that fool.

And I like Obama. But Cynthia McKinney deserves more respect than the dismissive nonsense getting posted in this thread.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. agreed. ultimatley pitt will defend the party not the principle.
the opposite of mckinney.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
125. Sorry, I don't consider blatantly hateful anti-semitism
whack job theories and paranoid anti-everything-that-doesn't-agree-with-me rambling drivel to be "principles" worth defending and I don't want them in my party, either.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #125
228. wow, you're really spoiling for a fight.
we'll see what you say in 2102 when you want my vote. i'll remember you.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #125
250. You've yet to back up your assertions.
So you've got about no credibility on that topic. Although I see it doesn't stop you from continuing incessantly.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
70. Thank you so much
The falsehoods and attacks on McKinney on DU show that THEIR attack on her worked. She wouldn't play their game, so they marginalized her. "American Blackout."
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
91. .
:thumbsup:
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #33
265. Hear, Hear! (n/t)
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
38. Gawd, Pitt
The way you say that one would think you were afraid of questioning Bushco.

Being that Bushco presented their theory in a way that is full of the typical loopholes and deceit so common from Bushco, it makes all questions quite necessary, but here you are, tirading against the questions!! How far we have fallen!!

It's as if they now own you!!
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
39. +1...
Edited on Tue May-05-09 08:28 AM by SidDithers
though you criticized the 9/11 truthiness industry. Now the nutters will come out of the woodwork.

Sid

Edit: spelling
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. They were never in the woodwork
which is part of the problem.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. Oh?
Gawd forbid we examine the Bushco relationship to 9/11 and try to get to the bottom of what really happened?

Man, with friends like you, who needs enemies?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #46
90. So there's no bullshit being peddled within the 9/11 Truth movement?
Edited on Tue May-05-09 10:34 AM by WilliamPitt
Really?

And so calling something bullshit means one is against all of it?

I was doing 9/11 investigations waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before it was cool, my friend. This is one area where I will not be lectured at. Where were you in December 2001? I was researching 9/11 and getting my research published both in books and in articles. I was going from town to town speaking on it, I spent years on it, until the bullshiters within the "Truth" movement so thoroughly polluted the inquiry with nonsense that, basically, the whole fucking thing came crashing down. I was there from the beginning, and saw a lot of good and important work get stepped on in favor of "Giant Laser Space Frisbees Took Down The Towers"-type horseshit, and we're all the worse for it because the important questions (Unocal, Karzai, Turkmenistan pipelines, Lila Helms, Taliban in Houston, etc.) weren't sexy enough and never got answered. The bullshit made it easy to dismiss the whole thing, which is why I believe a lot of that bullshit was deliberately injected into the debate so suckers would buy into it and freight the whole thing with crap until it all stalled out. Which is exactly what happened, so spare me the indignation.

Friends like me were working for you eight years ago on this. Don't you dare lecture me about it.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #90
99. Well now
So you gave up? You quit? Taking the easy route, now? Did, as you say: the 'bullshit deliberately injected' scare you off so far as to now paint anyone who speaks about it as a nutcase? It was important then but not now? It got a little messy and you washed your hands of it?

Thanks. It is hard to accept failure, I know. I have been flailing away and failing, but at least I don't label truthers as nutcases or whatever the fuck you were trying to call us.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #99
107. I didn't do that and you know it.
Read what I wrote above again and show me exactly where I paint all Truthers as nutcases. Go ahead, I'll wait.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. You didn't
But you agreed with whats-his-face who has called us lots of names. I went back to edit my post, but decided Pitt is strong enough to take it, so I let it stand.

Ya know, the Election Reform movement was badly declaimed for sometime in a similar way as 9/11 truthers, but since the Diebold issue was far and away simpler to uncover, we eventually won out.

We need people like you to come back in and discuss the matter once again. Call bullshit where you see it and call Bushco where you see it. History demands we not let Bushco write the 9/11 story all by itself.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. It's so hard now.
Edited on Tue May-05-09 12:59 PM by WilliamPitt
And not to give offense, but your reaction upthread is a lot of what makes it so hard. Please tell me if I'm mischaracterizing, but when I called BS on some aspects of the Truth movement above, you came down on me pretty hard. "Gawd forbid we examine the Bushco relationship to 9/11 and try to get to the bottom of what really happened," you wrote. "Man, with friends like you, who needs enemies?"

THAT is a fair portion of the reason I wound up shoved away from the Truth movement. I DID try to get to the bottom of it, and I helped to uncover and disseminate a whole shitload of damning information But to question any aspect of Truth questions is to slaughter somebody's sacred cow, which leads to reactions like "Oh so you buy the official story" or "Yeah, asking questions is bad," or some permutation of precisely what you wrote to me.

I worked on all this long and hard, and spent several years getting publicly kicked in the balls for my trouble, because for too much of the movement, questioning one part amounts to questioning the whole. I mean YEARS, and every single time I wrote or said anything that didn't cater to some Truther's orthodoxy, I got the firebombing-of-Dresden treatment but good. I've been getting hate mail from the Right for a decade, but nothing they ever said comes close to the bile I got from Truthers because I didn't think a missile was fired from beneath the planes that hit the Towers, didn't believe a missile hit the Pentagon (because I have a friend who saw it happen and another who was comrades with the pilot who died), didn't believe something or other that was patently nonsense but, apparently, off-limits to criticism. I got fed the fuck up, and if you were in my shoes, so would you.

Blaming me for my inability to kick through the nonsense isn't fair. I tried my ass off, but I eventually lost out to three groups within the movement who exist now in this awful symbiosis: those who believe unsupportable theories and peddle them relentlessly, thoise who peddle unsupportable theories to discredit the line of inquiry or to make money, and those who want to hear their worst fears "confirmed" by any source they can find, and thus buy into all the garbage that has paralyzed the movement.

It ain't my fault, and I did my best. All my work is still out there, in two books and God only knows how many articles and speech transcripts. I gave at the office, sir, and anyone who wants to can pick up my work and run with it. Be careful, though; you're bound to be called some rotten names in your travels.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. If I were in your shoes...
...indeed. You have been a lightning rod. Even my lightning attacked you. McKinney is in many ways in a similar boat as you. Me? I'm just a hack.

My apologies, Mr. Pitt.

Still, I got what I wanted in a way, and that was to get you to write a bit about the situation. And, it isn't pretty. I recognize most of what you wrote. The movement, such as it is, is greatly diffused and quite frustrating. But the end is what is important and Gawd damn it, you have some influence and I want you participating again!! Like 100's of others.

So, if you can find a way to dust off some of your more factual based discoveries and present them again, it may be much appreciated. Try to ignore those who might come at you with the lightning (apology again) and see if we can't write the history as it need be written.

But, hey, can't blame you if you don't, just thot I'd give it a go.

Peace.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #118
129. Gretefully accepted
and thank you. :hug:

You may indeed be on to something. The movement, unfortunately, has kinda fizzled out due to its own shortcomings and out of sheer exhaustion. The untenable stuff isn't as loud anymore, so maybe it's a good time to get back to talking about the serious stuff.

Food for thought.

:toast:
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #115
209. Reminds me of the only jury I sat on.

100% of the evidence favored the plaintiff. The entire defense was, "he doesn't look too injured to me." Sure, all we had to ignore all the medical evidence that said he was injured because, you know, he didn't LOOK injured.

The first vote went 9-3 in favor of the defense. That was nine White people voting for the White defendant, with two Black people and one White (me) voting for the Hispanic plaintiff.

I didn't point out the obvious racism since insulting people is no way to convince them of anything (hey, DUers, you read that?). I simply pointed out the 100% evidence fact and asked them to argue. They tossed out a few arguments, but none of them really had any heart in their arguments. They knew they couldn't really justify it and would probably have reached the proper verdict if not for what happened next.

They asked the other two people why they voted for the plaintiff.

"He wouldn't sue if he wasn't really injured," replied one.

"I think he's lying, but he was probably talked into this by his slickster lawyer, and I don't want to see him get stuck with the legal bill when the defendant's insurance company can cover that," replied the other.

For the next few hours every attempt to bring it back to the 100% evidence point was ignored. The nine wanted to argue against the above two points instead. And they had plenty of heart for arguing against those two points.

Ultimately, we awarded the plaintiff property damage, but nothing for personal injury. Then the judge asked us to stay afterwards to be interviewed by all the lawyers because, "this ruling makes absolutely no sense whatsoever." Even the defense attorneys told us it made no sense. I didn't stick around. I just tossed out, "it was racism, and I'm not going to sit here and argue about it." Then got up and left to a chorus of denials.


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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #115
210. So let me see if I've got this straight...
You were just trying to get to the bottom of things, and got kicked in the balls and called a lot of names for your trouble, but Cynthia McKinney is fleecing people on the rubber chicken circuit. I'd be inclined to believe you, because you're in a position to know if the nasty rumors about her are true, but it sounds like the main difference is that McKinney continued to dig into the less pleasant stuff after you decided to get out to preserve your reputation/sanity. If you know something, feel free to say it. But saying that a fellow progressive advocate is basically a self-aggrandizing huckster is a mean charge worth backing up if you really know it.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #210
216. "self-aggrandizing huckster"
Look who you're talking to, dude.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #216
223. That's cold, man.
Will has been busting his ass for all the right reasons for the past decade at least. I will abide unsubstantiated nonsense posted about him no more readily than about McKinney.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #115
235. Actually, I had a similar experience...
So I'll quote you:

I worked on all this long and hard, and spent several years getting publicly kicked in the balls for my trouble, because for too much of the movement, questioning one part amounts to questioning the whole. I mean YEARS, and every single time I wrote or said anything that didn't cater to some Truther's orthodoxy, I got the firebombing-of-Dresden treatment but good. I've been getting hate mail from the Right for a decade, but nothing they ever said comes close to the bile I got from Truthers because I didn't think a missile was fired from beneath the planes that hit the Towers, didn't believe a missile hit the Pentagon (because I have a friend who saw it happen and another who was comrades with the pilot who died), didn't believe something or other that was patently nonsense but, apparently, off-limits to criticism. I got fed the fuck up, and if you were in my shoes, so would you.

Blaming me for my inability to kick through the nonsense isn't fair. I tried my ass off, but I eventually lost out to three groups within the movement who exist now in this awful symbiosis: those who believe unsupportable theories and peddle them relentlessly, thoise who peddle unsupportable theories to discredit the line of inquiry or to make money, and those who want to hear their worst fears "confirmed" by any source they can find, and thus buy into all the garbage that has paralyzed the movement.


Really. In this field I worked at least as hard, and daily, and got kicked in the balls, many many times, and fed the fuck up.

Now. How is this a reason...

a) to blame Cynthia for anything here, or to bring up these issues in this thread?

b) to lose sight of which remains more important - 9/11 deception and exploitation by the Bush regime, and the imperative to get disclosure and justice, or the relentless and/or opportunistic stupidity of many "truthers"? (Use of the term to describe oneself is already a tip-off.)
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #90
101. Disinfo agents were and still are hard at work to muddy the waters of 9/11 Truth with bullshit.
If you really cared enough about the truth, you wouldn't have given up and let those bastards get away with it.
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CrawlingChaos Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #101
136. How true, earth mom
I'd go on but since my previous post got removed for mysterious reasons I can't fathom (even after a careful reading of the rules), maybe there's no point. So I'll just say that, clearly, you're quite correct.

Remember in the first Gulf War they hired PR firms to go out and pose as outraged citizens incensed by the phony babies-chucked-out-of-the-incubators story? Disinfo agents have always been part of the playbook.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #90
106. You go, Pitt, tell 'em off
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #90
147. I was there before you, sir...
and worked very hard to build a movement that committed hara-kiri with the bullshit you decry.

Nevertheless, that's no excuse for you to now claim that the "Loose Change" bullshit is what keeps you away from the real questions of September 11th.

An outrageous cover-up was perpetrated by compromised permanent insiders like Zelikow-Hamilton-Kean. They presented a report so fraudulent that in their later memoirs the chairs pretended they had nothing to do with it, and this was done officially on the taxpayers' dime. Someone who cares about truth, accountability and justice will devote their energies to uncovering what the 9/11 Commission omitted and covered up, not to complaining that people you yourself describe as a fringe have made the issue too unsexy for you.

Cleland resigned calling the Commission a whitewash and a scam, and pointing to the agenda of war that the unelected Bush regime implemented thanks to their 9/11 exploitation. Millions died, world politics was transformed by 9/11 exploitation, and you want to pretend the unpleasant conspiracy theorists keep you from talking about it. The Commission produced a report based on testimonies extracted by torture, and interviews held under the guard of Bush regime "minders" who intimidated the interviewees.

That means everything in the world and should be what a real fighter for justice and truth talks about, rather than wasting time with empty complaints about people you characterize as powerless but who nevertheless supposedly stop you from doing the right thing.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #147
154. Iraq got in the way, sir
My departure from the Truth movement was in no way solely based on the ocean of bullshit that flooded the thing. It helped, but I also had to focus on Iraq beginning in June of 2002, and as important as the 9/11 issue was and remains, my head has only so much RAM.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #154
224. Iraq? You mean the aggressive war that could never have been waged...
Edited on Tue May-05-09 06:11 PM by JackRiddler
without the deliberate false linkage of 9/11 and "al Qaeda" to the Saddam Hussein regime? As practiced by the very same Bush regime that simultaneously exploited 9/11 and prevented any chance of an impartial investigation of 9/11? I believe this most essential deception of the Bush years was No. 2 among the Kucinich impeachment articles. (Remember him? That would be the campaign you were working for in 2004. He didn't seem to lack the mental RAM to see the connections.)

Their motives and causes may have varied, but the Iran-Contra veterans and Cheney world-domination set who came together at PNAC and other clubs wanted an agenda of aggressive war that was impossible without some overwhelming pretext of foreign threat. They even said so.

Then they literally seized power in a fraud election, as you presumably are still willing to say yourself.

Then, there is no doubt that at the least they knew some kind of pretext of foreign threat was about to arise (something you were also willing to say once). Then, voila, it happened! Then they implemented the agenda they knew would not have flown with the people otherwise, and blocked all investigation into 9/11 despite the gaping questions and their own adoption of it as their quasi-religious justification for everything they did.

And they lied and stole and killed and never stopped. And shall these criminals now retire to more fat years as corporate princes, the younger ones to await a return to government in four, eight or twelve years more?

A last question, Pitt: What priority do you today assign to full investigation, disclosure and justice for all crimes of the Bush regime? If they get away with what they did, then constitutional government no longer exists, but perhaps you believe otherwise, or don't really care about it. Does that justice still rate any of your mental RAM? Or will you say the need to focus on more immediate problems prevents you from thinking about it any more? (Or, for that matter, from maintaining a coherent narrative of your own history?)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #224
227. I don't need to justify myself to you, sir.
Edited on Tue May-05-09 06:16 PM by WilliamPitt
One of us uses our real name here. One of us doesn't.

I do the best I can, and that's the best I can do. Always have, always will. The very day I have to justify myself to a screen name fashioned after a comic book character is the day they'll wind me in my shroud.

Physician, heal thyself.

Cheers,

William Rivers Pitt
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #227
231. This is ad hominem...
Which means simply to attack the messenger, whether fairly or not, usually when you can't deal with the message.

Need I remind you who came in to this thread, which wasn't about 9/11, with his non-sequitur complaint that stinky "truthers" make 9/11 disclosure an unhappy issue for serious thinkers?

And when others respond to your own, unprompted statements, in which you talk with self-praise about your own experiences as a former seeker of 9/11 truth, is this how you answer? Funny how you don't use the screen name excuse with the other 99 percent of DUers who aren't using their real names. It's a sad retreat, Pitt.

While it's sport here to pick screen names (mine isn't based on a comic book character, but came to me spontaneously for whatever reason, and I don't take it very seriously), it's never been a secret who I am and you'll find many DU posts with my own name. This is an Internet debate board, more a salon than a publication, but even if I'm wrong as often as people speaking spontaneously in a loud environment will tend to be, I am neither ashamed nor intimidated.

Nicholas Evangelos Levis - Successor to the Leonide throne
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
146. I'm sure you know what "poisoning the well" means..
And, IMO, that's exactly what most of the "explosives/thermite took down the WTC towers" is..

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livefreest Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
29. i would have thought really that the Bush administration has
provided material for countless books, seminars, motivational speeches (how you can rob the government in a month or less), so much material!
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
232. You aren't serious, are you?
People were paid just to criticize Bush?

Your tin foil hat is much too tight, Bush was criticized for legitimate reasons, no one had to pay a soul to criticize him - he made enough mistakes and committed enough abuses in office that no one had to "travel the circuit" they just had to speak the truth about his screwed up administration.

Really, WP, you have posted some very strange shit over the years. IMHO, this is just one of the stupidest of the strange.

:eyes:



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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Increasingly...as in last month it was 5, this month it's 6?
Really, I am fine with her asserting that her way would be better, but i don't buy her contention that the contents of her inbox mean anything significant. I do this kind of thing for work - if I'm selling something in a market where there are no competitors, I can honestly say 'it's the undisputed leader' - which sounds a lot better than 'nobody else thinks it's worth trying to sell this sort of thing'. It's technically true, but it's also a persuasion tactic.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
41. self delete - wrong place....nt
Edited on Tue May-05-09 08:28 AM by SidDithers
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. She's tossing a pebble at a battleship. No damage reported.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. A legend in her own mind.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
72. McKinney has done so much for rights and for the downtrodden
Edited on Tue May-05-09 09:25 AM by LostinVA
She fought teh man. She deserves much more respect on here than she gets.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #72
128. The downtrodden for her doesn't include Jewish victims
or any other victim who isn't "worthy" in her worthless estimation. She deserves no respect and needs to crawl back under her rock where she belongs.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
140. what has she actually done for the downtrodden?
and evidently her constituent services suck. she hasn't done 1/100 of what Bernie Sanders has done. she's a poseur. a narcissistic and paranoid piece of work.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #72
253. Are the downtrodden any better off then they were before Ms. McKinney was elected to office?
:shrug:
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #253
256. Oh, much more, to include volunteerism and charity ... much more than ALL THE BLUE DOGS
in the world. :P
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Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. Cynthia McKinney has gone a bit around the bend.
She has really gotten into the conspiracy stuff. She is a reoccurring guest on Alex Jones' radio program where she says things like 5000 people were executed after hurricane Katrina.


Just sayin'.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Well 3600 did get washed out to sea
or eaten by alligators.
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Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes indeed.
The death toll was higher than we were told. Of that I'm personally quite certain. McKinney was talking about executions.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'm happy with my vote and I'd happily vote for Obama again!
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. I very much regret
Ms McKinney's off the deep end.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. Really? "buyers remorse"? according to the polls Obama's approval is around 66%
I don't take her comments seriously since she was one of his opponents in the last general election. I take it as seriously as if McCain said that people have been coming up to him saying they voted for Obama and now have "buyers remorse."
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. No Ms. McKinney, I have absolutely no regrets about supporting President Obama.
He seems to be conducting his White House pretty much as he conducted his campaign -- No Drama Obama, smartest man in the room.

All those folks who hope he'll fail -- for them, the dynamite goes boom in their faces.

Hekate


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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. No regrets when I think about McCain/Palin. I helped with Obama's
campaign to protect myself.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
26. Obama is the best vote I have ever cast
I have no regrets and doubt I ever will.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
27. Do you know see how nuts she is?
I rest my case.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Actually not entirely.
But I don't regret my vote because it might would have led to McCain/Palin if she had gotten it.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
31. she's pathetic.
she isn't taking being utterly irrelevant, well.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
32. Who? (nt)
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
35. Pipe dreams...
Good luck with your agenda under any administration!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
36. Ms. McKinney - your bus to obscurity has arrived.
Perhaps 8 years ago this woman impressed me and I did feel bad when the GOP used the GA open primary elections to get her booted out of office. But these past few years she's gone off the deep end and someone who I have not had much respect for.

I have no remorse for voting for Obama - only pride. I think Ms. McKinney is just pissed that she is on the path to obscurity and she can't get there quick enough.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
42. Shouldn't she be looking for the bodies of the 5000 people...
she said were executed during Katrina?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjewdHb8UY

Sid
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. Well
Have you ever found the WMD in Iraq? Funny that folks here should attack Ms. McKinney while the big criminals go free. No, not funny.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Perhaps you can link the youtube video...
where I claimed there were WMD in Iraq.

Oh, and I know funny when I see it.

Sid
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Why Not Both?
I'll attack those who lied about WMD and crazy lady who claims there were 5,000 people executed after Katrina without a shred of evidence to back it up.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. Because
One person DID do it, the other is just reporting.

But you knew that, right? So why such a stupid question?
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Well, your red herring aside
It's not really a stupid question at all. Cynthia is not "just reporting." She made a claim with no apparent evidence to back it up. Pretty much the same thing Bush did. I'm not going to hold her to a different set of standards because she's a so-called progressive. When you make a claim like that, you better be ready to back it up with pretty solid evidence or people are going to call you out on it, and rightfully so.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. But
I read where she got her info, did you?

No, the reason you pick on her is that you are scared of her. She brings scary truths right to you and like others above you prefer to not hear these truths so you attack. And I answered your god-damned stupid fucking question, and you say she did pretty much the same as Bush did? Gawd!! You compare the two and expect any respect? Fuck that!
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #60
71. Wow, okay....
I'm not scared of Cythia. The last federal election should be a pretty strong indication why. There's nothing scary about a claim with no proof to back it up unless, I guess, you're just a hysterical person in general. I'm not. The difference between you and me is that I'll call bullshit when I see bullshit no matter which side of the fence it's coming from.

There appears to be a wide gulf between the two of us in what we accept as "truth." Your definition seems to be "someone I agree with said is so it must be true." I'm a little more skeptical, that's all. I require pesky things like proof before I'm willing to accept a statement as "truth."

Yes, I read where she got her info and it still contains zero physical evidence. If you've got what you think is some sort of proof feel free to post and I'll weight it accordingly.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. Equivalencies are not your strong suit...
Edited on Tue May-05-09 09:14 AM by SidDithers
I asked why McKinney isn't spending time trying to validate a claim that she made.

You asked why I'm not spending time trying to validating a claim that I never made.

Not. The. Same.

And I have attacked those who lied about WMD. But this is a thread about nutbar Cynthia McKinney.

Sid

Edit: fixed awkward wording



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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. Go fly a kite.
It is so idiotic that anyone spends any time attacking McKinney while Bush walks free.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #63
68. McKinney is a loon...
and it's no surprise you're defending her.

Sid
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #68
100. Well
I least I don't defend Bushco. Who, BTW, she is fighting.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #100
112. That kind of binary thinking is one of the things I found most contemptible about the Bush
administration, and it isn't any more attractive when it comes from people on "our" side.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. And you?
What do you think? Who is McKinney fighting? And who is she fighting for?

You don't have a clue how I think but you see me blowing away the people who are blowing hard on a person who blows away Bushco, so you feebly try to blow me. Figure out what side you are on, K?

Bushco is our enemy, right?
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. No, that's not how it works. The enemy of an enemy can still be a dipshit.
You know who else hates George Bush? Fred Phelps. He hates him a great deal, and spoke out against him and his administration vehemently for the last eight years. But, alas, he's an asshole. Unfortunately, by your metric, his opposition to Bush is all that matters, and he deserves our allegiance. See where your reasoning takes us?

Just because someone hates something you also hate, it does not mean that they aren't batshit crazy attention-mongers who are more interested in how many cameras they can get pointed at them than actually doing good work.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Good post. You said it better, and more nicely, than I was going to...nt
Sid
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. Fred Phelps?
Never even paid him any mind except to know that he is against us. Call it binary, but that is what draws the line, so your Fred is of no consequence.

I still don't know what your problem is. But I do McKinney has many stances against our great over-arching enemies, at least my enemies - I realize they may not be your enemies, I don't know.

If you read the OP you'd see what I am talking about per McKinney. She lays out some good points and nobody is perfectly aligned so we go with what's good and unite where we can to maybe someday win. Do you want to win? Then unite.

Call it binary, or whatever, but there are always shades of grey and we have evident enemies that deserve our undivided attention, is the way I see it.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #122
126. No, by your own logic, the underlying philosophy of an adversary of Bush is not
as important as the opposition itself. You don't get to have it both ways.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #126
169. Heh


The underlying philosophy is everything. Phelps is wrong to start with, while McKinney's means a lot. People Power is the basis of her philosophy and while she is not perfect she has done more than you and I ever will.

So, you fail.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #169
184. "The underlying philosophy is everything."
I'm glad you agree with me.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #100
242. Now you're just making shit up...
You and McKinney, a couple of peas in a pod, where matters of truth are concerned.

Sid
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
218. I think she's slipped her cracker...
But she was right about the execution of people during Katrina. They were executed by virtue of the US government ignoring them. You really didn't get that?
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #218
229. No, she said they "were killed execution style, by single gunshot to the head,"
Not that lack of governmental oversight led to their deaths, that they were actively shot and killed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #229
259. Wow... I never heard about that... eom
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #218
240. She was a bit more specific than that...
She said they were killed by a single gunshot to the head. They weren't murdered by neglect.

Sid
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
45. I do agree with her in many areas,
and always enjoy reading about what she has to say.

Thanks for posting.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
49. I have no remorse
I think Obama is doing well and have no sour grapes having voted for him. Crazy Cynthia is about dead ass last in the list of parties I would have voted for.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
51. That woman is nuts.
She's become an embarrassment to this state.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #51
75. No she isn't, and no she isn't
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. That's their opinion, and that's your opinion.
Neither is fact. They are both just opinions. You are allowed yours, they are allowed theirs, regardless of how you might feel about the subject of that opinion.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #75
92. The Democratic primary voters in her district seem to think so:
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #92
251. Georgia has an open primary system
You cannot assume that only Democrats voted against her.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
54. Agree or disagree, I'm still surprised by the hateful tones in this thread
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #54
73. Indeed
With this mindset, we are doomed.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #73
80. I started a thread last week re this notion of, if you disagree w/me, then you're CRAZY
I get so tired of seeing so many fall right in line with that tendency.

It usually goes something like this:

Person A holds to the orthodox, mainstream view per his/her background assumptions

Person B conversely holds to a dissident, heterodox view

Hence person A automatically and immediately relegates person B as "crazy/delusional/ignorant/wingnut," etc

I gather that since so many do this they must not realize how ridiculously childish it is, and only gained such cultural prominence due to it being a favored right-wing tactic on talk radio and M$M
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #80
98. Yep
Mainstreamers think they are not crazy, that they are the sane ones. But they have supported the mainstream establishment as it has driven this country over a cliff while lying to the people the whole way.

Have they no conception of their being fooled and deceived? McKinney is trying to tell them the truth and they can't handle it. They won't even listen...Gawd!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #54
77. McKinney threads are always like that on here, as are Oprah threads
And, both BLACK WOMEN have done so much for other people, even if sometimes they believe their own press too much. I wonder why these two BLACK WOMEN garner such responses on here? Why do YOU think? And, both have such falsehoods thrown out about them.

Really weird.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #77
143. Don't forget Condi Rice threads.
I wonder why all three BLACK WOMEN garner such responses on here? Why do YOU think?

That IS really weird.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #54
89. True, but then again, I do think her supporters could react less vehemently to criticism of her
Sometimes it seems none is allowed. I've seen even civilly stated criticism of her be shot down as hating and how dare you and she's done so much and you've done NOTHING. First of all no one here knows what a poster has done or not done just by the fact that they are here and writing on the board. Being here doesn't mean they're not doing things to make the world better.

As for me and my opinion, I think that nothing will ever have the power of her very first protest. She was just a Gold Star mom looking for answers and standing in an obvious place waiting to get it. It was simple and compelling. She can do what she wants and maybe some of it is helpful, but she is not a god, and as a public figure she is just as open to criticism as anyone. Sometimes I get the feeling her supporters hold up her Gold Star mom status as a shield, resulting in the aforementioned "HOW DARE YOU!"

That annoys me.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #54
120. I'm not. n/t
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
204. I am surprised that you are surprised (nm)
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #54
246. DUers display this level of vitriol on a daily basis.
Why are you surprised?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #54
257. Some of the most hateful rhetoric that I have observed has come from WHITE MEN.
It's funny how that works. :eyes: Also people love to parrot "She's Crazy" as if they will be given a cracker as a reward. :shrug:

I believe we've slipped into the inane comedy that was a successful SMEAR CAMPAIGN ... a lesson to all others who don't "play ball" with the power elites of either party. :(
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #257
277. Those darn white men. Damn their souls, anyway!
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
57. Clueless Cynthia McKinney riding her iStallion in the wrong direction.

She was on the same ballot in most states that Barack Obama was on and by huge numbers voters rejected her agenda and chose him instead.

She was hardly a player at all.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
61. No regrets for me
Or for most of the American public, apparently.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
64. This is a woman who introduced the Tupac Shakur Records Act!
Nuff said!
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. Well, Joe Biden wrote the bill the put Tommy Chong away
"Check out the people you're voting for.... "For instance, Joseph Biden comes off as a liberal Democrat, but he's the one who authored the bill that put me in jail. He wrote the law against shipping drug paraphernalia through the mail - which could be anything from a pipe to a clip or cigarette papers." ~ Chong
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #69
82. Apples and oranges. n/t
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. Ha...apropos on my part...sorry, my bad - not being a rap fan I had no idea of what that is
...as I said, all things considered, apropos :smoke:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. She also pushed for Dr. King's assassination records to be unsealed
Edited on Tue May-05-09 09:57 AM by LostinVA
As well as many, many other positive things.

TPTB didn't like her, so they took her out, even though they ahd to lie and set her up to do it.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. In the interviews I've seen w/her she's very outspoken re the unconventional...
It was she who termed much of how our govt operates as a "crime syndicate," a reference I still use. Sorry I jumped in w/o realizing the point you were making ... I was just taken aback that so many were hurling such nastiness at her.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #88
278. If anything I think McKinney's gotten off relatively easy in this thread.
She has earned a far higher degree of disdain, IMO.

If We the People are the government, 'crime syndicate' is a bit uh, untoward. And if government is so tainted why does she seek to lead it?

McKinney is not leadership material on a national scale. She's a walking ego, and a very angry one at that.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
138. Sounds like Biden was a much more effective legislator
Edited on Tue May-05-09 02:12 PM by Freddie Stubbs
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #138
149. Care to flesh that out? You're in favor of Ashcroft & Co making an example of Chong?
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #149
160. I doubt he's in favor of anything,
Other than someone with a "D" next to their name "winning."

Politics isn't about theory anymore, it's about rooting for the home team. And the minute McKinney dared to attack Democrats, people here turned on her like it was a fucking football game.

Either that, or the supposedly uber duper super lefty McLefties on this site are as clueless, ignorant, or spineless as the rest of the whimpering moderates I run across in real life.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #160
165. Yep, got that. I'm still surprised that anyone here would take the pro-Ashcroft position re Chong
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #149
247. I was contrasting his ability to get legislation passed as opposed to her inability to do so
Edited on Wed May-06-09 08:17 AM by Freddie Stubbs
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #64
78. So?
Watch "American Blackout."
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. If you haven't yet, watch American Drug War: The Last White Hope - War on Drugs
Edited on Tue May-05-09 09:38 AM by Echo In Light
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #64
79. So?
Watch "American Blackout."
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
123. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?
Lots of people care about the murder of a talented young black man, and the fact that, as in many cases with murdered young black men, police can't be bothered to figure out who did it.

I guess if Miley Cyrus was gunned down, people on DU would be up in arms about it, though, so I guess I should consider who I'm talking to.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #123
137. Oh PLEASE!
It's not the job of Congress to legislate that "all Government records related to the life and death of Tupac Shakur should be preserved." Of all the issues facing this country, the life and death of Tupac Shakur is not even on the list for probably 99.9% of Americans, if not more.

I'd be more impressed if she took an active role in the lives and deaths of young black men NOT named Tupac Shakur!

This is a woman who, while showing great concern for a dead rapper, attacked civil rights icon John Lewis after he failed to endorse her. The Pulitzer Prize winning Cynthia Tucker noted McKinney "doesn't have the prestige or power to pass a resolution in support of sweetened ice tea." Congressional Black Caucus member Rep. Alcee Hastings said "we avoid her. Cynthia won't approach people beyond her real friends." I guess they're bigots too, huh?

And Miley Cyrus? LOLOLOL! Get real!
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #137
156. How presumptious of you.
Maybe some constituents or others connected to Tupac lobbied for a voice in Washington and only found her. I seem to remember Tupac's mother, Afeni, being connected to McKinney in some way. Who are you to tell Tupac's mother that her son's death isn't that important in the grand scheme of things (probably just because you "hate gangsta rap")?

And I didn't call anyone a bigot. I just suggested that maybe the world doesn't revolve around you and what you alone thinks is important.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #156
168. Must be nice "being connected to McKinney" and getting special treatment.
I wonder how many other mothers of slain children feel knowing their child's death is not important to McKinney since they are not "connected to McKinney?"

No, you didn't use they word "bigot," but you know as well as I do what your ridiculous remark "I guess if Miley Cyrus was gunned down, people on DU would be up in arms about it, though, so I guess I should consider who I'm talking to" means.

The only thing "presumptuous" here is that Tupac Shakur's life was more important to McKinney than that of her constituents. Did she introduce legislation of behalf of any of them? I guess to McKinney, ones life only matters if that person is rich and famous and has a personal connection to her in some way.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #168
175. Wow, you're all over the place.
Tupac grew up around Black Panthers. His mother was an activist for a long time. I'm sure she and Cynthia ran in similar circles. Despite what you're suggesting, I seriously doubt there's this all-powerful cabal of ex-Panthers secretly currying influence among our legislators.

And Tupac was a public figure, and a very powerful voice in the hip hop world. His murder shocked and outraged a lot of people, as did the police not giving a shit about solving it. Take a look outside of your bubble sometime.

I find it ironic that you have Matthew Shepard in your sig, and yet you're willing to downplay the influence of Tupac and the effect of his murder. I mean, Matthew's just one guy, right? What makes him so special? :sarcasm:
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #175
192. There's something wrong with you.
Was Shakur killed because he was black? Was he a victim of a hate crime?

Was he just some innocent black man, minding his own business, who was singled out simply because of his race, or was he killed because he chose to associate with people who don't think twice about blowing a person's head off over some disagreement?

Hey, guess what - lots of people are killed, black and white, through no fault of their own. Shakur doesn't fall into that category. He lived his life on the edge and that's how he died. That's too bad, but for you to suggest that his life is more important than anybody else's is insulting, and for you to compare his death to Matthew Shepard's is outrageous!

I never said Tupac Shakur's life and death didn't matter, all I wa saying was McKinney should have used her position to advocate for those who didn't have platinum records hanging on the walls in their multi-million dollar mansion!

If you don't understand that then there's nothing I can say to make you understand.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #192
195. And if you're going to be obtuse, there's nothing else I can say either.
I'd like to think that your belittling the death of Tupac (because of some stereotype you have of "gangsta rappers") was definitely not your finest moment.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #123
139. Why would she do this and ignore the murder of The Notorious B.I.G.?
:shrug:
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #139
150. Obviously she's part of the West Coast rap gang
Plus, she probably knows that Biggie put the hit out on Tupac.

It's all part of the massive cover up of the Tupac murder.

;)
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #139
157. So on one hand Tupac's death wasn't important enough for her to bother
And on the other hand, she should have also focused on Biggie's death.

You and your friend need to conference call before you start trolling these threads.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #157
173. Why is Tupac Shukur's death more important than anybody else's?
Why is he so special? What about all the other thousands of young black men who just happen to not be famous? Why no special legislation for them? Just because they're not famous their lives don't matter?
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #173
181. Why is Matthew Shepard's death more important than anybody else's? n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #181
188. Do you think Tupac's death was a hate crime against
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:02 PM by Occam Bandage
a group that was afforded no Federal protections against such crimes? Are East Coast rappers a threatened minority?
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #188
194. East Coast rappers may very well be....
But no, of course I don't think Tupac's death was a hate crime.

But, like Matthew Shepard, the outrage over Tupac's death was not just about his death, it was also representative of a much larger grievance. Trying to turn this into some sort of evidence of "special treatment" by Cynthia, as the other poster is doing, is as ridiculous as suggesting that Matthew Shepard's mother was getting special treatment when she was invited to Congress last week because of hate crimes legislation that was passed in her son's name.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #181
199. You seriously need to get a grip.
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:16 PM by Political Tiger
You honestly think comparing Tupac Shakur to Matthew Shepard is somehow going to make you, or McKinney, look less crazy?
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #199
202. And you need to read my replies and express yourself a little better.
You started this whole subthread with your hypocritical, paranoid little tirade about "special treatment."
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #202
208. LOL!
All I posted was "This is a woman who introduced the Tupac Shakur Records Act." That's hardly a "tirade!" And I said absolutely nothing about "special treatment" until you jumped in and started spouting off about Shakur's mother "being connected to McKinney."

No, I express myself very well, and I have read your replies closely, and responded to them accordingly.

Seems the only one suffering from any paranoia is you who incorrectly claims I "started this whole subthread with your hypocritical, paranoid little tirade about "special treatment"" despite the fact that all one has to do is look at my post that "started this whole subthread" to see that that is patently false.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
66. That woman is our Bachmann
Stark-raving loony.
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #66
111. Haha... Cynthia McBachmann.
She's a clown. I can't believe some many people on here respect and defend her.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #66
226. bwah
:thumbsup:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #66
245. No she isn't. She left the Democratic Party
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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
74. Dear Ms. McKinney...
Please go over there and sit by Sheehan and Kucinich in the irrelevancy section. Thank you.
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RubyDuby in GA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
76. Don't go away mad sweetie, just go away
We've known for quite a while in GA that she deserves her batshit crazy label. And before folks jump on me and say but...but...but...she was right about this or that...even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
83. K&R n/t
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
93. From 2006/DailyKos: 15 Reasons to Quit Cynthia. . .Local Perspective
Edited on Tue May-05-09 10:54 AM by DinahMoeHum
"Yes, Cynthia, We Can Quit You"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/6/173637/0320

IMO, the 15 points made in the essay say it all about her, and why she was ultimately rejected by the voters in her own district.

As for me, I have no regrets whatsoever in voting for Obama - the alternative was and still is too unthinkable.



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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #93
97. Great Article. Nothing more really need be said.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #93
105. I find McKinney both pitiful and contemptible
and that article is an excellent explanation as to why.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #93
158. Thanks!
Very nice article! :hi:
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
95. Oh God, I wish I'd voted for John McCain
oh, the remorse!!

Woe is me!!

:cry:
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
96. The only remorse I have
is having liked McKinney, she's become quite a nut...
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
102. McKinney is one of the few voices speaking the truth.
Not surprised to see the same old names on this thread-doing their best to silence her and paint her as fringe which she is not. :grr:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. Is it the truth to say that Al Gore has a low negro tolerance?
that's just one of the "truths" McKinney has been known to speak. Sbe was an ineffective rep and was voted out by her constituency because of it. She had a poor reputation when it came to constituent services.

Yes, she's the fringe. She has no influence on virtually anything. And no one is trying to silence her. She's free to say whatever she pleases- as am I.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. Holy cats! They found all those prisoners she said were executed in the swamp after Katrina!?
Why wasn't that on the news!?
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Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #102
113. LOLZ
No one here has any power to silence Cynthia - heck no one anywhere does.

She can say whatever she wants to say. However, if someone disagrees with her - they have the right to disagree. Or is that not how it works??

5000 executed in the swamps (one of her better statements)- how is that NOT fringe??

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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #113
148. She didn't say that, she reported that a National Guardsman had said that
Edited on Tue May-05-09 02:57 PM by LostinVA
And, even though it wasn't 5,000, there were at least 50 prisoners killed, as reported here and in the MSM. She was a huge force in helping those hurt by Katrina. She isn't Fringe in the least, TPTB have just worked very, very hard to marginalize her, and to have people think she is "Fringe."
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Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #148
151. Link...
...I am unable to find one to the story about 50 prisoners being killed....executed in the swamps.

I hate to ask for one for I am pretty good with search engines...

Being from Georgia, I have kept up with Cynthia and her father - sorry, but I am not influenced by the great MSM AND I find them both to be fringe kooks.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #148
177. She also reported it was "confirmed" from "multiple sources."
Edited on Tue May-05-09 03:49 PM by Occam Bandage
You don't say things are "confirmed" if you actually mean they're "wild speculation you once heard from someone." That's her problem: she's credulous. She'll believe anything anyone tells her.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #102
142. Is honest commentary or criticism okay with you, or do you think no one has the right?
People will have their opinions, and she is not immune.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #142
163. Funny, because I have seen little honest commentary or criticism
about the points she raised in the article anywhere on this thread. This whole thing has been one big ad hominem.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #163
179. Agreed. I never realized she was such a controversial figure here
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #102
176. Ahahaha. Ahahahahahaha. Ahhahahahahaha.
*gasp*

Ahahahahahahahahahaha.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #102
219. no, and the hostility towards her just shows you
how pathetically low our expectations are for our government, our society, ourselves, and our neighbors in the world.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
244. McKinney aspires to lead. However, you wouldn't know it judging from
her public career.

McKinney has been spectacularly ineffective in reaching more than an extremely small and marginal handful of people even angrier than she appears to be and among the whole batch of them I see or hear not one leader.

Least of all Cynthia McKinney.

McKinney's commentary quoted in the OP is astonishingly out of touch with what is happening in the country. IMO it was also characteristically self-promotional as well.

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
109. LOL Politicians have become commodities
'Buyer's remorse.'

Marketed, bought, sold, traded (Specter-ed).

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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
119. I stopped reading and started counting instances of "I" and "me"
Then I got bored of that, too.

She's self-appointed and self-interested.
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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #119
153. 8 I's, 7 me's {nt}
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
127. Fuck That Whackadoodle Cynthia Mckinney. She's Nothing But An Irrelevant Ignorant Moron.
She's bonkers!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #127
141. What'd she do, kill your brother?
That's alittle over the top don't you think?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #141
144. Not Over The Top In The Slightest.
W h a c k a d o o d l e
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
145. Oh my god, I've been making an ass of myself on this thread
Wrong Cindy. Sorry folks.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
152. To be honest...
...nobody really cares what you think, Cynthia. Sorry.
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
155. I am still waiting for her to produce the evidence
that she has of 500 people killed during Katrina and dumped in the bayou.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #155
159. Five hundred? You give her too much credit for plausibility.
She thinks that five thousand were executed in the swamp.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #159
162. Link?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #162
174. Here.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #174
182. OMG That's cool!!
I've never seen that before!
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #162
178. Here you go.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #178
183. Oh for fuck's sake.
:banghead:
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #183
186. Indeed. n/t
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #183
187. Yup, she basically admits in the video she has no proof
She heard it from a mom, who was told by her son, who signed a "silence" agreement, that 5000 people were executed and dumped in the swamp.

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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #187
190. That's some pretty potent crazy right there.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #187
191. But she did say she had confirmed it with the Red Cross. nt
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:07 PM by Occam Bandage
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #187
196. She doesn't "admit she has no proof" at all.
She tells a story she's been told and says it should be investigated.

So silly of her to say the treatment of prisoners during Katrina should be investigated because all those mainstream Democrats are all over that. :sarcasm:


Prisoners of Katrina
By Olenka Frenkiel
BBC reporter

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, while thousands fled New Orleans, the city's prisoners were trapped. Fresh eye-witness accounts reveal what really happened to those left behind, and how crucial forensic evidence was simply washed away.


Nearly 7,000 male and female prisoners were left behind

In September 2005, long after most people had fled a devastated city, inmates of Orleans Parish Prison - many of them shackled - were still waiting to be rescued from the blazing heat and the stinking floods.

"They basically abandoned the prison," says Vincent Norman, a chef arrested for an unpaid fine who found himself locked in a cell for days.

Norman should have been there no more than a week. Instead, abandoned without food, drink or sanitation as the waters rose, he was in prison for 103 days.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/524198...

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #196
198. "Some prisoners are mistreated" is not "the Red Cross told me 5,000 people were executed."
Not even remotely similar.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #159
189. Nopers. She recounted a story she was told and gave her sources.
You don't know what she thinks. She also said it should be investigated.

In the wake of prisoners being abandoned in their cells when the water rose, do you seriously believe it shouldn't be investigated?

Do you have any idea of the things that happened during and after Katrina or of the information vacuum or of the stories that were making the rounds? Apparently not.

I'll go with Cynthia and all her efforts in service of liberal projects and not with someone with a keyboard tearing her down out of context. :)
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #189
193. She's credulous. A normal person would not simply accept the story,
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:08 PM by Occam Bandage
nor would they claim they have "verification from insiders who wish to remain anonymous in the Red Cross that this is true."

Simply accepting and repeating as fact what other people tell you, no matter how incredible, and no matter how little evidence they have, is a sign of The Crazy when it comes to politics.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #189
200. I believe she said the story had been confirmed, but please correct me if I am mistaken. n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #200
201. The quote was,
"And I have verification from insiders who wish to remain anonymous in the Red Cross that this is true," per the linked video.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #201
205. Yeah, I'm honestly not sure which is worse--either she knows that she's lying, and doesn't care
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:45 PM by Raskolnik
that it hurts the efforts to investigate *real* instances of prisoner abuse or government misconduct during Katrina, or she is so gullible, so removed from reality that she believes that just because she *wants* to believe it, it must be true.

Either way she's a dipshit.

edit dyslexic spelling
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #200
203. She gave both of her sources AND then she said it should be investigated.
But if you already don't like Cynthia, it's pretty easy to take this into the realm of nuttery and not hear what she actually called for, an investigation.

There were all kinds of stories floating around after Katrina, including one that said someone had deliberately blown up the levies. This one is no more nor no less unusual unless you take it out of context.

And she didn't call for a prosecution as if the act was a matter of fact, but for an investigation.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #203
206. "A mother" and "insiders in the Red Cross who wish to remain anonymous" are not "sources."
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:27 PM by Occam Bandage
For all we know she made up both. I'm absolutely certain that she made up the latter, in fact, because I strongly doubt that the Red Cross "verified" the story to her. Now, I'm sure the former existed in some form, because I doubt she's creative enough to make the whole thing out of whole cloth, but that doesn't excuse anything. I'm sure someone told her a growing urban legend, and she believed it because she'd a credulous nut, and so she ran with it and made up some shit about the Red Cross to make it sound more believable.

It's true that there were tons of crazy stories. It's not true that rational people accepted any of them as likely. Nutbags took it as an opportunity for nuttery, and that's it.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #203
207. Yes, there *were* all kinds of stories floating around after Katrina
and only the most gullible and/or dishonest, called press conferences to pass them on.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #207
211. You are misrepresenting that press conference but that's par for the course
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:52 PM by EFerrari
as are your gratuitous insults. 'Way to go!

:)
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #211
212. Please point out how I am misrepresenting anything McKinney said.
Thank you in advance.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #212
213. Cynthia did not call that press conference to pass on that story as you claimed.
That's just ridiculous but in line with the rest of your posts to this thread.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #213
214. She called a press conference, and used the opportunity to pass on a ridiculous story
You can excuse lies and/or fantastic gullibility all you like, but I don't care for either.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #214
220. Ah. Those goal posts must get pretty heavy after a while.
And thank you for again smearing both me and Cynthia.

It should occur to you at some point that it's possible to disagree without sliming the people you disagree with.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #220
238. As much as you'd like to make this discussion about you, it really isn't.
You haven't posted anything to demonstrate that Cynthia McKinney was not either lying or grossly gullible when she made her silly statement about the government executing 5000 (five thousand!) prisoners in the swamp after Katrina. Nothing. Zip. Zilch.
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #159
221. Wow
I knew there was a 5 in there somewhere but even I wasnt thinking she was that crazy.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #221
234. Yep. According to her, the Feds executed twice as many people as died in 9/11,
Edited on Tue May-05-09 06:53 PM by Occam Bandage
or to put it another way, more Americans were secretly executed that day than died in the war in Iraq.
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #234
236. You would think that if that were the case
she would have done some kind of follow up, but I see no evidence that she did,yet there are people on DU that take her seriously.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #155
170. Thats really all there is too it
If you make statements like Cynthia made, you've GOT to expect people to ask for some level of evidence. For me at least, it's the same argument I use when dealing with the woo-woo crowd. All they have to do to bring me over to their way of thinking is simply provide proof.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #155
185. She said the matter should be investigated and she's right.
Privatizing our prison system is costing us millions if not billions and the deaths in custody go largely unreported.

Who else is talking about this? No one.

But, it's easy to twist what she said into some kind of crazy CT. Much easier than doing the work to verify, let alone, to do anything about the prison industry.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #185
197. No, she isn't right. The government does not have the resources
to launch full investigations every time anyone proposes a bizarre conspiracy theory with neither evidence nor witnesses nor anything of the sort. If I say now that someone told me Barack Obama murdered one supporter after each rally for fun and then covered it up, should the government launch an investigation?
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #197
254. Considering what a complete and utter clusterfuck Katrina was
there isn't anything that's too small to investigate. Everything and anything should be on the table. There were white people hunting down black men for sport and bragging about it for fuck's sake! It was and continues to be a complete mess. But because it's not being covered on the TV many pretend that everything's okay. It's not okay and it should be properly investigated. Something that has yet to happen.
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #185
222. It's easy to "twist"
into a crazy conspiracy theory because that is what it is. She didn't say in the press conference that it should be "investigated" inferring that there was a theory. She said it DID happen,McKinney said she has verification of the alleged crime by insiders at the Red Cross who wish to remain anonymous. No one takes her seriously and there is a reason for that. I, like many think her tin hat is on a little tight.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #222
225. Go listen again and get an intepretor if English isn't your first language.
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #225
230. Maybe you should think
before you misspell "interpreter" and claim that English isn't someone's first language.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #230
239. Ha!
Well played, sir or madam.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #230
241. Oh snap!..nt
Sid
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
164. No buyers remorse.
I voted for Obama KNOWING he was a "Centrist" (Half-Republican) with strong ties to Wall Street, and has promised to keep the WAR in the Middle East going for as long as he is President.

And THAT is exactly what we got.
The ONLY thing worse is the other alternative in our two party system.

While I do not have "buyers remorse", I am DEEPLY dissatisfied with our current rigged political system, and I applaud McKinney and everyone else who is speaking out from "The Left".
We have been taken for granted by the Centrist (Half Republican) leadership of the Democratic Party for way too long.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
166. Greens and Republicans really are quite alike.
The only thing they ever consistently believe is that the Democrats are wrong.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #166
258. Oh, so now anyone who LISTENS to "a green" is not a REAL Democrat?
Damn! Watch out lest you be stating that if we're not with the RIGHT-WING COPORATE BLUE DOGS then we're not real Democrats. :crazy:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
215. They have to stop making shit up...
I'm sick of them all.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
217. i appreciate her power to the people campaign
it's sad that our expectations have been so lowered by 30+ years of rw propaganda that many of us can't even envision a truly better world that works for the many, not the just the few.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
233. She has as little sense as Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck.
Edited on Tue May-05-09 06:57 PM by TexasObserver
I agree with some of the things she believes in, but that doesn't change her basic nature or problem. She's a boisterous, loud mouthed, fairly ignorant person of ordinary intelligence who has the same lack of judgment as other such loud mouths, from Michael Savage to Cindy Sheehan.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
248. McKinney has not much or wisely invested in the social contract, IMO.
Edited on Wed May-06-09 08:53 AM by saltpoint
She does not align herself with the community apparatus that anonymously works to get things done. She aims for the marquee headline every single time.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to lead. Not having the instincts to lead, however, is a significant impediment. The instinct for leadership, IMO, is nowhere present in the personality of Cynthia McKinney.

There is about Cynthia McKinney some oppositional instinct against evaluating self within society. As a result, her public remarks are laden with I Me I Me I Me I Me -- which is the language of victimhood. If self serves within the society, the self needs to be quite small and the society must be quite large.

An argument can be made that McKinney has valuable points to offer the public debate on key issues. A stronger one, IMO, can be made that she is not equipped to make that argument herself.

I would say she appears insufficiently aware of the need for leaders (at any level) to understand and accommodate more than one point of view simultaneously. Her refusal (or inability?) to do this results in her "victimhood." She is an ideologue and not a public servant, at least in her role as a national figure.

She is perceived by many to be a loose cannon. I think that's close enough an assessment, but she is a cannon somehow pouring oil over itself rolling around on the deck. IMO she does not speak truth to power but rather she barks inflammatory propaganda to victimhood. IMO it serves little purpose and has resulted in her extemely conclusive and richly deserved marginalization. Note the persistent impulse she has for defining herself through conflict and victimhood.

I do see in McKinney a 5-star, top-drawer 6th grade teacher. She would be in charge of 25-30 (?) kids who are 11 or 12 years old or so. I think she would do a splendid job. I think her students would greatly profit from her as their teacher and adult support. It is a public service position defined with "We" and not "I." Pay Cynthia McKinney to introduce Harriet Tubman to 6th graders. That is noble work.

If Cynthia McKinney wants to change the perception that she is not a self-promoting inflammatory look-at-me wacko propagandist, alarmist, and hothead, then I suggest she stop acting like one.


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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #248
255. Oh stop with the inflammatory rhetoric. Wacko? No, she's not.
Edited on Wed May-06-09 11:11 AM by ShortnFiery
I know this is not popular but McKinney may not be as intelligent or affable as Obama, but she is MUCH MORE GENUINE.

As far as friends and family are concerned, I value "genuine" over "perfect politician" every damn time.

Bless you Cynthia McKinney. Like your fellow American Patriot, Dennis Kucinich, you have the COURAGE to speak truth to power. :patriot:
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #255
260. Do you think the government executed 5,000 prisoners in the swamp after Katrina? n/t
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #255
261. I can definitely see where you in particular would find McKinney appealing.
She's a hot head. She's also a career failure. She'll continue to be the second so long as she's the first.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #261
270. You seemingly are so damn brilliant in judging other people's faults.
Edited on Thu May-07-09 12:58 AM by ShortnFiery
Oh how I wish I could take "a peek" when you look into the mirror and judge #1. :evilgrin:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #270
272. Ol' Cynthia racked up a full 161,000 votes in the 2008 election.
Awesome.
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Tyrfing Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
249. Sadly its gotta be asked
What exactly does Cynthia present as an alternative? A "better funded guerilla campaign"? In some ways thats exactly what Obama was ironically enough (although "guerilla" is over-the-top when it comes to Obama).

"Power to the People starts" with people not $$$, starts in the workplace not the halls of power, agitation not legislation

Love ya Cynthia, but this is just not very convincing or compelling..look around and tell me it isn't time to stand up to the Boss and management. Gotta think big, not grovel "Oh please let me play your electoral games too, Mr Rich and Powerful White Man"

Maybe we can't win the world in one go, but at least the Moon.. ;)
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
252. Yes, I can relate but we can MAKE Obama better. One thing he is - An extremely intelligent and
Edited on Wed May-06-09 11:05 AM by ShortnFiery
and super-skilled POLITICIAN.

Obama will do what he HAS (what WE, THE PEOPLE DEMAND FOR HIM) to do to thrive ...

It can be a Win-Win for our Country and "The World" IF we keep informed and active. :thumbsup:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
262. McKinney's career could be assessed as a lost opportunity. She has the
brains and the ambition to attach herself to the traditions of civil liberties but the accurate read, IMO, is that she attaches herSELF to those traditions and in the process shrinks the traditions.

In true public service it is the self that is dissolved into the greater good.

McKinney's flip of that point to promote herself to such a degree is pre-adolescent. In an actual adult it's the equivalent of political road rage.

The woman could do a lot of good. But she isn't doing much of anything at all doing her righteous rage number.

A woman who is suffering in an abusive relationship and who is working 2 jobs to feed a child and whose boyfriend or husband is alcoholic needs a brainy, courageous, and effective advocate at the other end of a Call-for-Help line that she read off a 3 X 5 at the local laundry mat.

Cynthia McKinney does not speak for that woman. Cynthia McKinney speaks, most of the time, for Cynthia McKinney.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
263. McKinney finished last among the major minors. That is, of the
Edited on Wed May-06-09 11:46 PM by saltpoint
third party tickets who had some level of profile in at least some of the states and territories -- Barr, Nader, etc., she finished last among them.

She only managed to get on the ballot in 32 states.

She drew a raw total of 161,000-some votes. That's it.

It strains credulity to think that McKinney is launching anything close to a viable political movement with a smidgeon over 161,000 votes.

And this in a U.S. election in which a record number of votes were cast.

Obama / Biden Democratic 50+DC 69,456,897
McCain / Palin Republican 50+DC 59,934,814
Nader / Gonzalez Independent 45+DC 736,804
Barr / Root Libertarian 45 524,524
Baldwin / Castle Constitution 37 196,461
McKinney / Clemente Green 32 161,195
Others - total (see below) 226,908

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential...


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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
267. We all know that Cyn was a little nuts
This proves it.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #267
269. Bullshit! The Power Elites decided that all those who don't bow to established power memes MUST
be punished and branded "nuts."

They said the same thing about Paul Wellstone and they still call Dennis Kucinich "Nuts" too.

If that's NUTS, then I'm proud to be associated with those three American Patriots. :patriot:

WTF is wrong with some folks who "like a game of gossip" must repeat the M$M memes that DESTROY those who don't submit to established authoritarian memes ... as if it makes them all a part of some super-special secret club. :crazy:
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #269
271. Do you want to take it back a notch?
That was pretty nuts.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #271
273. No more NUTS than you judging other people just to jump on the proverbial bandwagon.
Edited on Thu May-07-09 01:03 AM by ShortnFiery
You're part of "the sheep."

That is probably more PATHETIC and COWARDLY than NUTS.

Yes, I'll take NUTS over GUTLESS any day. ;)



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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #273
274. Thanks for the confirmation
Please, while you can, do something for our friends in California.

Thank You.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
275. "Being seriously underfunded" indeed. People will put up the cash if
there's a good reason to, by and large.

It was the widespread and deeply-felt view of the electorate that Barack Obama deserved their campaign donation money, and not Cynthia McKinney.

McKinney's fourth paragraph contains this throbbing slab of victimhood:

- - -

"But I have to admit that I am saddened by the fact that so many people fail to understand that in the transaction of a political election, there is no warranty for buyers remorse. The crescendo of well-financed political propaganda is all geared toward achieving the desired result on election day and there is no denouement."

- - -

My god, what a piece of crap writing that is. McKinney's remark begins with the double nominative "I" -- She tells us she has to admit sadness, a sadness she has experienced. What she's so sad about and must confess is that "so many people fail" to grasp the absence of a "warranty" for voters. That is factually unsound, as the election process permits voters' reconsideration of an incumbent representative. True at the national, state, and local levels.

It also permits the electorate to reject shrieking, self-promotional provocateurs in overwhelming numbers, as was the case in voters' choice of Barack Obama over a loose cannon like Cynthia McKinney.

The "well-financed political propaganda" McKinney assails here was to a very historical extent the money from small- to middle-income Americans. But if McKinney's claim can be advanced as an accurate read, McKinney gets to whine as the victim of the electorate's "failure to understand" the process.


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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
276. As to the comment of McKinney's that "(Al) Gore's Negro tolerance level has
Edited on Fri May-08-09 05:20 AM by saltpoint
never been too high," I wonder how she would respond if a Caucasian Democrat asserted that "Cynthia McKinney's white tolerance level has never been too high"?

And as to that point generally, a record number of U.S. Americans voted in the 2008 election for Barack Obama, suggesting that the electorate's Negro tolerance level is perhaps higher than McKinney thinks it is.

http://www.slate.com/?id=2064530



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