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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 06:57 AM
Original message
Minot AFB Crew Commander found Dead + Minot AFB Clandestine Nuke 'Oddities'
Edited on Mon Feb-02-09 06:58 AM by mod mom
Coincidence?

Minot base crew commander found dead
The Associated Press
Posted : Monday Feb 2, 2009 7:02:28 EST
MINOT, N.D. The body of a missile combat crew commander from the Minot Air Force Base was found by police, and the cause of his death is under investigation, the Air Force says.

A statement issued by the base Sunday said the body of Capt. Jonathan Bayless, 28, was found Friday night. Police did not give details but said it was in an area north of the city soccer complex, and they are awaiting autopsy results.

Col. Christopher Ayres, the bases 91st Missile Wing commander, said Bayless was a training chief with the 91st Operations Support Squadron. He had been at the Minot Air Force Base since March 2005.

Bayless went on active duty in May 2003, the statement said. Base officials did not list his hometown but said he had been assigned earlier to Vandenberg Air Force Base for missile combat crew member training.

-snip

http://airforcetimes.com/news/2009/02/ap_missilecrewcom...



Minot AFB Clandestine Nukes 'Oddities' By Lori Price, www.legitgov.org Updated: 30 July 2008

The following section was compiled by 'The Pundit.'
Since the Minot story broke a week ago about the missing nukeclandestine operation from Minot, we have the following (for those who are paying attention):

1. All six people listed below are from Minot Airforce base
2. All were directly involved as loaders or as pilots
3. All are now dead
4. All within the last 7 days in 'accidents'

http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=10465
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AI...
http://www.kxmc.com/News/161562.asp
http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=140988
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2007/07/20/news...
http://www.komotv.com/news/local/9679367.html

-snip

Air Force brigadier general dies of gunshot wound 28 Jul 2008 An Air Force brigadier general died of a gunshot wound that likely was self-inflicted, a spokesman said Monday. Brig. Gen. Thomas L. Tinsley, the commander at Elmendorf Air Force Base in Anchorage, suffered a gunshot wound to his chest late Sunday night and was pronounced dead within a half hour, said Col. Richard Walberg, who assumed command at Elmendorf after Tinsley's death. "To the best information, it's possible it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound," Walberg said at a news conference. The weapon was likely a handgun. His previous 22-month assignment was executive officer to the Air Force chief of staff, Gen. T. Michael "Buzz" Mosely, who in June resigned under pressure in an agency shake-up. Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates ousted both Mosely, the Air Force military chief, and Air Force Secretary Michael W. Wynne, the agency's civilian head, holding them accountable for failing to fully correct an erosion of nuclear-related performance standards. One concern was a cross-country flight in August 2007 of a B-52 carrying armed nuclear weapons.

US missile alert crew falls asleep on the job 25 Jul 2008 It was 9.30 in the evening. The crew of three air force members decided to rest a little and within 15 minutes they were fast asleep. They awoke several hours later. The only problem was that the room in which they were snoozing was the missile alert facility at Minot air force base in North Dakota. Directly beneath them was the underground control centre containing the keys that can launch ballistic missiles, and in their care were metal boxes containing the secret codes that allow the nuclear button to be pressed. The incident is the latest in a series of foul-ups and poor ratings for the Minot air force base. Last summer a B-52 bomber was loaded with six air-launched nuclear missiles and flown, unbeknownst to its pilots or crew, across America.

Air Force says officers fell asleep with nuke code --July 12 incident was at Minot AFB, location of other incidents 24 Jul 2008 Three Air Force officers fell asleep while in control of an electronic component that contained old launch codes for nuclear intercontinental ballistic missiles, a violation of procedure, Air Force officials said Thursday. It is the fourth incident in the past year involving problems with secure handling of components of America's nuclear weapons. The incident occurred July 12, during the changing out of components used to facilitate secure communications between an underground missile-control facility and missile silos near Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, according to Col. Dewey Ford, a spokesman for the Air Force Space Command in Colorado.

Air Force declares lost B-52 crew dead 24 Jul 2008 In a solemn statement early Wednesday, 2nd Bomb Wing Commander Col. Robert Wheeler bore bitter news of tragedy to Barksdale Air Force Base and the surrounding community. The Air Force and Coast Guard have given up hope any of the six crew members of a Barksdale B-52 that crashed Sunday north of Guam are alive. Five of the lost airmen were assigned to the 2nd Bomb Wing. The only other base in the world at which B-52s are permanently assigned is Minot Air Force Base, N.D. Its 5th Wing has been peppered for years with 2nd Bomb Wing personnel, and vice-versa, and it has not been unusual over the years for a commander or a vice commander to move from the 5th Wing to the 2nd Bomb Wing.

Air Force Finds Lax Nuclear Security 02 Jul 2008 Most overseas storage sites for U.S. nuclear weapons, particularly in Europe, need substantial improvements in physical security measures and the personnel who guard the weapons, according to a newly available Air Force report. The Blue Ribbon review of nuclear security was conducted after it was discovered that a B-52 bomber had flown across the United States, from Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, with neither the pilots nor ground crews aware that six cruise missiles under one wing held real nuclear warheads.

http://www.legitgov.org/minot_afb_nukes_oddities.html


On edit...The new information was posted by Unhappycamper on the Veterans Forum but I thought it would get more attention here.


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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Any "Coincidence Theorists" on this board anymore?. . . . n/t
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Is it a coincidence that War w Iran was brought up recently by Israeli Ambassador?
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's very, very strange.
I'm going in search of my tin chapeaux. :tinfoilhat:
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. I hope it leaks enough radiation to be detectable...
it seems there may very well be a hot outlier sitting around somewhere where it might generate the most leverage.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. Death by suicide: "The weapon was likely a handgun"
:wtf: Did he have time to box up and mail the weapon elsewhere before expiring??
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. Another Coincidence?
When you have that many "coincidences" for one air force base you seriously need to question if they really are just coincidences.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Unhappycamper's post in the Veterans forum
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. "Move along. There's nothing to see here." - Republicon corporate media Brown Nosers
Edited on Mon Feb-02-09 08:15 AM by SpiralHawk
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. This is bad kimchee.
It's one thing for someone to put their brains on the barracks wall rather than face the draconian retribution for a monumental FU. Six dead goes off the circumstantial scale.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R 'cause I just bought Alcoa stock.
But seriously, I thought the other five - or at least several - had been debunked months ago.

On the other hand, after the past eight years, I'm willing to wait for the jury trial. That's one hell of a skeezy bunch we just booted and they did their best to perform a complete Xian conversion of the Air Force via the Academy and Pentagon brainwashing sessions.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I missed the de-bunking-googled it and got another incident unrelated about a toxic
gaseous cloud from a train de-railment.

Are you saying the nuke on plane incident was de-bunked or explanations to the multiple deaths?
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. The deaths ONLY. Five nukes, six nukes, no nukes, never happened, one missing nuke.....
But you've got to admit, they sure made the story about that last missing nuke disappear pretty damn fast.

If I wasn't quite clear enough, there's nothing I wouldn't put past the BFEE.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm very skeptical of anything originating at legitgov
I used to love that site until they ran with this story. Being retired Navy, the "oddities" caught my eye immediately; however, after following up on the links Lori Price provided to "prove" the story, I found many descrepancies that did not support the "oddities". I e-mailed my findings to her, thinking it would give her an opportunity to correct the story.

Silly me. I actually thought a site calling itself "Legitimate Gov't. would actually care about the facts. Apparantly I was mistaken. Not only did a get a response basically gaffing me off, but the "facts" were never changed. Needless to say, I have lost all faith in the articles printed there unless I can verify them through other sources.

Having said that, there are problems with the nukes at Minot that are being addressed by the Pentagon.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Are you skeptical about connecting the deaths or in the actual transfer of nukes
from Minot to LA?
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I'm not skeptical about the transfer of nukes.
The Pentagon has acknowledged the serious problems associated with that. In fact, heads rolled when Gates fired some very high-ranking AF officers, and that's been well documented, including news releases from the Pentagon.

My problem is with trying to connect unrelated deaths with the improper handling of the nukes. Unfortunately, I did the research quite awhile ago and don't remember all the specifics, but the deaths did not seem related, happened in different parts of the country over a period of several years (if I remember correctly), and included people who had no connection to the nukes. When I e-mailed Lori with my concerns, she said she knew and that's why she'd used quote marks, ie, "oddities", etc.

I was very disappointed that she would seemingly report something as serious as that in that manner. I found it very misleading and disingenuous, to say the least.

She did the same thing in reporting the massacre at Va. Tech. Since I'm from southwestern Va. and have good friends on faculty at VT, I knew there was no "conspiracy" there.

I have no problem with believing there are now (and have been) conspiracies. I tend to be very skeptical about taking things at face value. My first instinct is to question everything, especially if it involves the Gov't. In fact my mantra is: A. Follow the money, and B. Who benefits(imagine a question mark here-time to buy a new keyboard,lol!). Guess what I'm trying to say is that I take stuff from that site with a grain of salt until I can verify it with other sources.
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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. If Two Different Sources Present "Facts" That Contradict Each Other,
how can you determine which source is telling the truth?

Answer: Simple. The source that provides the evidence you've been seeking to support your own personal opinion on the subject is telling the truth. The other source is run by left-wing/right-wing extremists and/or conspiracy nuts.

And that is what I've learned from this thread so far...........
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
15. Dave Lindorff has written alot about this
Edited on Mon Feb-02-09 10:28 AM by Juche
My impression of this event was that this was an attempt by the US (this incident where nuclear weapons were sent from Minot occurred about a week before Israel bombed Syria's nuclear reactor in early september 2007) to have a joint bombing with Israel where they would hit Syria's nuclear facilities and the US would hit Iran's nuclear facilities. Or maybe we were going to give the weapons to Israel and let them strike both Iran and Syria. I don't know. Supposedly after the intel agencies and air force figured out what was going on they mutinied and stopped the program. So after that there was a plane with nuclear weapons just sitting at Barksdale. Hence the whole cover story (whoops, we accidentally transferred nuclear weapons cross country. Silly us) and the fact that everyone associated with it is ending up dead.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. Prediction: An act of nuclear "terrorism" will occur.
Edited on Mon Feb-02-09 10:35 AM by arcadian
Possibly on our soil, possibly on an allies soil. Pakistan or Iran will be blamed. We invade. Totalitarianism at home(we didn't have far). It's as American as apple pie.

:tinfoilhat:
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I hope the Joint Chiefs haven't been listening to Tommy Franks with a glint in their eyes.
Edited on Mon Feb-02-09 03:06 PM by MilesColtrane
"If the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government." -Franks
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. THIS IS ALL A LIE.
I say that in caps to try and get people to realize that the noise about the six dead people is a TOTAL and COMPLETE lie. None of the people they talk about had ANYTHING to do with the B-52 that flew with nukes, and all but one died BEFORE the B-52 flight happened.

Some of them were civilian employees, some of them hadn't even been within a thousand miles of the base for weeks. One guy shot himself after having a falling out with his fiancee and her family, a couple of civilians got killed in an accident when their motorcycle hit a car, another guy died on leave while hiking in the Florida Everglades.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. You and your damned inconvenient facts...nt
Sid
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Too bad his facts are wrong
Edited on Mon Feb-02-09 12:22 PM by Juche
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/69

2 died in July, 3 in September and 1 on August 30th. The event was August 30th. So it is 4 who died during/after, not 1. FTR, what would be nice is to get an investigation into this issue just to clarify it, not debate it online. But realistically that won't happen. It'll be blown over and anyone who says that we need a serious investigation to clarify the inconsistencies will be shouted down.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You'd be more credible if you weren't citing a conspiracy theorist site...
...which has been known for COMPLETELY FABRICATING INFORMATION.

This is like asking Rush Limbaugh for an objective opinion on the Bush administration. It's crap.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. You might be more credible if your facts hadn't been disproven with 10 seconds of googling
Edited on Mon Feb-02-09 04:08 PM by Juche
If you need a better site, the OP has local news listings of these deaths and when they occurred.
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Bryan Sacks Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. LOL! n/t
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Claiming something doesn't make it so.
The assertion that all these people, or even any of these people, were involved with the Minot nukes flight has been debunked. The idea that they all died mysteriously within a week has also been debunked. Try to cherry-pick all you want, it doesn't change the facts.
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Bryan Sacks Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Never mind the fallacy there: Dave Lindorff's site is a 'conspiracy theorist site'?
The same Dave Lindorff who wrote "The Case for Impeachment" with Barbara Olshansky?

I'd be interested to know when he ever fabricated information.

Or do you mean the American Conservative? What did they fabricate? Not that it's relevant, of course, since the story is written by Dave Lindorff. But enlighten me.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. I went to the thiscantbehappening site and read the article. What is with people who
are supposed to be journalists failing to put dates on crucial events. The article repeatedly gives dates with NO YEAR so one is left to wonder if the writer is pulling our proverbial leg or doesn't understand that the reader would benefit from a viable chronological account of the events in question. There is a note in the intro that says the article appeared in 2007, but that's the extent of dating. Google says the flight took place in '05.

Oh well. So much for accuracy and precision.

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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. Reminds me of a local case a few years ago
A guy was found in the woods. Hands were tied. He was stabbed and possibly beaten. He was shot twice. His shoes were at the side of the road and there was no dirt on his socks.

Police ruled it a suicide.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
26. This sounds very suspicious
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. A Statistical Improbability
There is no way the weapons would have moved without a top-level directive to do so, because of treaty obligations dating to the Cold War, because of the potential for really big problems in the wrong hands, or if there's a crash during transport. There are radiological reports needed because of the gamma activity inherent from the design of these things, dealing with where they went, who was exposed, how much dose, etc., which requires a monitored crew. Things like this are most vulnerable to interdiction in transit.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. If this doesn't lead the corporate media network news, they should just give up their
license!

This is unbelievable!

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, mod mom.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. ***LINK*** to unhappycamper's original thread ...
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. What a deeply disturbing concatenation of improbable coincidences.
I'm just glad that's all it is.


















:hide:
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. O M G!!
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. I don't get it.
I'm naturally VERY skeptical of these sorts of things, but this seems a little too odd even for me.

But here's what I don't get. Why would someone be targeting all of these people? Throwing the word "nuke" in there will get you 40+ recommendations on DU, but it doesn't explain exactly why that's so intriguing.

Why do you or anyone else into this Minot Air Force base thing think this is happening/happened?
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. There is no way the weapons would have moved without a top-level directive
There is no way the weapons would have moved without a top-level directive to do so, because of treaty obligations dating to the Cold War, because of the potential for really big problems in the wrong hands, or if there's a crash during transport. There are radiological reports needed because of the gamma activity inherent from the design of these things, dealing with where they went, who was exposed, how much dose, etc., which requires a monitored crew. Things like this are most vulnerable to interdiction in transit.

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. They weren't supposed to be moved.
Short version: Most of our nuclear-tipped cruise missiles are being decommissioned. Due to almost all military resources being devoted to keeping Iraq running, that job is behind schedule. Being backed up, and in violation of proceedures, the missiles which still had live nukes inside them were being stored in the same bunker with the missiles which had had their warheads removed already.

The loading crew charged with getting the things onto the B-52 heading for Barksdale grabs six dead missiles and six live ones, thinking they've got 12 dead ones. The officers in charge of the ground crew fail to make the mandated full checks, and the error isn't caught.

The B-52 makes the flight to Barksdale, and sits there on the tarmac until the crew there comes out to remove the missiles, and on examination realizes that six of them are still nuclear-armed.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. Have you ever spent a winter in Minot?
I think if I were on my 2nd or greater winter in Minot, I might think about eating a bullet myself.
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CLG_News Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
n/t
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