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"Whole Load Of Crap"-Larisa Alexandrovna Has Low Down On "Therapist" To The Anthrax Suspect

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:48 AM
Original message
"Whole Load Of Crap"-Larisa Alexandrovna Has Low Down On "Therapist" To The Anthrax Suspect
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 09:09 AM by kpete
August 03, 2008
Jean C. Duley... tell us again...

Okay, well the more research I do into the now infamous Ms. Jean C. Duley - the "therapist" who filed a restraining order against the alleged anthrax attacks suspect Bruce E. Ivins - the more her story sounds like a whole load of crap.

Let's rehash Ms. Duley's role in the whole saga.

According to The Smoking Gun, documents they obtained and posted show that Ms. Duley filed a restraining order request against Bruce Ivins on July 24th. In that complaint, she wrote the following (the errors are hers):
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0801081...

client has a history dating to his graduate days of homicidal threats, actions, plans, threats & actions toward theripist. Dr. David Irwin his psychiatrist called him homicidal, sociopathic with clear intentions will testify with other details FBI involved, currently under investigation & will be charged with 5 capital murders. I have been subpoena to testify before a federal grand jury August 1, 2008 in Washington, D.C.


It is hard to know where to begin with this piece of work, but let us start with the obvious:

1. FBI Investigation into Domestic Bioterrorism Attacks Is Open to Duley?

How does Duley know that Ivins "will be charged with 5 capital murders?" She has yet to testify to the grand jury, which means the grand jury has yet to indict him. And why on earth would the FBI investigators read Duley into the case details?

2. Death Threats, Terra Threats, and "theripist" threats, oh my?

The complaint alleges that on July 9th Duley got threats of a homicidal nature, see here.http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0801081... Now, I don't know about you, but I would not wait roughly three weeks to report homicidal threats from a bio-weapons expert, nor would I wait that long to report threats that were made only against me. I have had some personal experience with stalkers. You don't wait when you are frightened like she claims to be. If you are that frightened, you go straight away to the police. She says that on July 10, Ivins is committed to Shepard Pratt psychiatric facility. I have yet to read any account of anyone validating this. But let us assume that he was, Duley alleges that he signed himself out on July 16th, after Ivins went to have a commitment hearing.

Again, if a bio-weapons expert is making homicidal threats and is committed, he does not get to check himself out and if he actually attended a commitment hearing and was granted release, then clearly someone at Shepard Pratt that that Ivins was stable. But in any case, he is out on July 16th, so why is she still not filing a restraining order against him? Why does she wait until July 24th?

In addition to this series of strange claims by Duley, the most obvious issue here is if Ivins had a history "dating back to his graduate days" - so some 30 years ago - of homicidal threats and plans (whatever the hell that means), how was he able to gain access and security clearences to work with Anthrax?

And just what kind of therapist cannot spell the term of her own profession, spelling it "theripist?" She got subpoena right, which is far more difficult to spell (although the tense is wrong) and yet a term that is used on a daily basis in the field that she actually works in she could not get right?

3. Dr. David S. Irwin, come on down...

According to Duley, Ivins was described by a psychiatrist as "homicidal, socipathic with clear intentions" although she does not specify what the intentions are. Again, I have to ask what kind of psychiatrist a). makes these statements to some twit fresh out of school in violation of HIPPA laws, but b). does not file a police report given who the patient is, and c). does nothing to notify Ft. Detrick?

Okay, now with these basics in hand, let's examine Ms. Duley;

1. According to her boyfriend of 7 years, she is in an undisclosed location because she wants privacy. Okay, then why is her boyfriend Mike giving statements to the press? http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1452847

Mike McFadden, spoke to The Frederick News-Post on Saturday from their home in Williamsport and provided a statement on her behalf.

"Jean is currently at an undisclosed location," McFadden said.


2. Duley's boyfriend says she was "reluctant to become involved in the FBI investigation" and then turns around and says "Jean is the kind of person who believes her life is insignificant in comparison with the kind of damage Dr. Ivins is capable of...She sacrificed all this stuff because she wanted to do the right thing. She'll soon reveal what many wouldn't because they didn't want to be involved with it." Which is it, was she reluctant or willing to sacrifice everything because she felt her life was insignificant?

And what is with this cryptic statement: "she'll soon reveal what many wouldn't because they didn't want to be involved with it."

She will soon reveal? Um, this is a terrorism case, it is not for her to reveal anything, rather, it is for the FBI/DOJ to reveal information. And if she had something to reveal, why does she simply not reveal it?
She wants privacy, but dangles this little morsel over the heads of hungry journos?

3. What kind of therapist was Ms. Duley? Well, as of 07/08 http://www.herald-mail.com/index.php?module=displaystor... she had made the Dean's list of a small and extremely expensive liberal arts college called Hood College, http://www.hood.edu / which costs $24k p/y to attend. So I am not entirely clear what degree she was going for or how she was able to pay for it on a social worker's salary. Also interesting is that in 1999 she had gotten a Chapter 7 Discharge, which again makes one wonder how she was able to pay for tuition.


Record 1:

Civil Record Verification: Confirm Case # 9920549 at the Court House
https://www.intelius.com/purchase.php

Defendant: DULEY, JEAN Case Number: 9920549

Filing Type:_____ CHAPTER 7 DISCHARGED_____ Entity Type:_____ INDIVIDUAL RECORD
Filing Date:_____ 19990907___________________Address: 343C FIELDPOINTE BV 103
City:_____FREDERICK State:____ MD Zip:___ 21701 Schedule 341 Date:__ 19991008

Attorney:__ STEVEN COHEN___Attorney Phone: 3019899000
Attorney Address:__________SPENCERVILLE CT Attorney City: BURTONSVILLE
Attorney State:____________MD Attorney Zip: 20866

Assets Available:_________ N Court Code: MD002

Court Name:_______________ GREENBELT Judge Initials: DWK

Unlawful Detainer:________ N


4. If you go back to the statement by her boyfriend above and read the full article, he also says of Duley "She had to quit her job and is now unable to work, and we have spent our savings on attorneys."

Okay, I give up. Why did this woman have to spend all her money on attorneys? She clearly filed the restraining order herself. So how is it that she incurred any attorney fees? Unless, of course, her boyfriend means that she incurred attorney fees for her DUI jury trial http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiry-in... in 06 and ongoing fees relating to her probation? Why did Ms. Duley lose her job? Is it because as a "therapist" working with drug addiction cases, http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.... she was found driving under the influence?

I don't know what to make out of all of this. Is this woman jumping on the bandwagon hoping to pen a book deal or something? Is she simply lying? Is she telling the truth about Ivins? Is she as nutty as she claims him to be? I don't know. What I think, however, is that if this witness was dragged into a court in which I was the defense attorney, her credibility would quickly be shot down. Somehow, I think, we will soon see a Fox Noise exclusive interview with this woman and her boyfriend who will "reveal" what it is that they know. At this point, I am not buying this story and I am not sure why the media has jumped on her claims as though they were gospel.

Thoughts?

Printed with permission from Larisa

larisa, as usual, YOU are amazing-we all knew that there was a pile of crap here, just waiting to be "sniffed" out. As usual, you have NOT let us down, thanks kpete

http://www.atlargely.com/2008/08/jean-c-duley-te.html
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Drug and Alcohol "theripist" (sic) with several recent DUIs...
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 08:51 AM by Junkdrawer
And yet all weekend, she was featured on headline, front page stories that "proved" Ivins was a sociopathic killer.

Watch her disappear from coverage now...
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. How could she know he was gonna be charged before the grand jury
even finished its investigation?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Apparently all of his neighbors knew that he was being watched.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
98. Just curios; By what stretch would she have access to or know any of his neighbors. nt
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. It sounds like somebody told her that the grand jury would indict him....interesting.
Nobody can know what a grand jury will decide until after they've decided, right? Unless, of course, somebody knows that the fix is in...or somebody knows that the suspect won't be alive when the grand jury is scheduled to meet.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. Her "source" may have been FBI agents who interviewed her.
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 01:39 PM by leveymg
FBI investigators wouldn't give her these details unless there was a reason the Feds wanted everyone -- friends, neighbors, employer, therapist, the family dog -- to know that he was under suspicion for a heinous crime.

She may not have gone to the local cops because she thought, initially, the G-Men would protect her. Who might have disabused her of that notion?

They did this to break Ivins, and apparently, they succeeded.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Exactly. Just as they probably told her that their doctors had
evaluated Ivins and that he was a homocidal sociopath. When the story unravels, the finger is pointed at his real doctor who likely knew nothing of the sort.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Yup. The only question is, why are they moving this case now? Leahy?
If I were Leahy, I'd probably prefer this whole thing stay on the back burner until next year, when it can really get the investigation it needs.

One would think?

Or, is there more about this case that's about to come popping out before November?

There's no question the anthrax attacks were an off-the-shelf operation that proceeded according to plans that had been developed and disseminated pretty widely among national security circles. Plenty of room for interested parties to get involved.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Well, if what you want is to slow down Democrats
reminding them of their mortality might be a way to go. "Closing" the case would just be a bonus.

And I don't believe for a moment Obama will want anything to do with this. :shrug:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. It doesn't make sense for BushCo to stir up this shitstorm, now.
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 02:22 PM by leveymg
The whole thing was stone, cold dead until Leahy brought it up with Mukasey, wasn't it? Or, maybe Leahy heard they were moving on the "other" prime suspect after Hatfill was scratched off the list by DOJ. It might be interesting to check the timeline.

The suicide is all too transparent and suspicious. The stink is just going to get worse if this case is "closed".

Absent something from outa the blue -- a really startling revelation about Iraqi (or other foreign) involvement, for instance -- I can't believe that the timing of this helps the WH. Particularly, as the whole anthrax thing was a transparent effort to frame Iraq.

So, I'm skeptical it's being manipulated by Rovian insiders at this point.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. FBI removed contents of Ivins' lab freezer in June.
A timeline would be useful.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Should combine timelines for Hatfill, Ivins, Kelly others who worked on US-UK "Iraq WMD" projects
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 03:36 PM by leveymg
In 2000, Hatfill started working on a CIA contract at CACI with Ivins, Kelly and other Brits at Porton Downs Dstl bioweapons program to build mockups of Iraq biolab trailers that never existed. Same group of UK and US researchers were also working on "replicas" of radiological dirty-bombs Iraq didn't have.

Seems that this entire groups of suicide-prone scientists were building "Iraq WMDs" Iraq didn't actually possess. At the same time, a large part of the US and UK counter-terrorism community were busy running war games based on the assumption that Iraq would attack with these same, mythical weapons that Chalabi's INC was busily "inventing".

Run up and down the timeline - the key neocons - Feith, Luti, Wolfowitz, Perle -- have been involved with "Iraq WMD" preparedness prgrams. Steve Cambone, Rumsfeld's #2, has been at or near the center of this. After he left Pentagon, he took over as head of the US subsidiary of QinetiQ, the privatized part of Dstl Porton Downs bioweapons program.

Add CACI and SAIC into the mix. The WMD programs run through these privatize firms to produce Iraq WMDs are the thread that runs through the monstrous hoax that justified the GWOT and Iraq invasion. See,

US-UK Built Replica Iraqi Dirty-Bomb and Germ Labs Before ... Dr. Kelly was head of the Microbiology Section at Dstl, Porton Down, ...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/27/153157/057/243/...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. We might check Paul Thompson's History Commons.
They might have something up.

http://www.historycommons.org/
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Please post what you find.
Will chack back later. I HAVE TO get back to work.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #70
83. This is the first I've seen of Ivins being involved with the CIA....

at what point would 'mockups' of Iraqi WMDs turn into the real thing? This just gets stinkier and stinkier. These types of black-op programs need to be shut down for good. As I recall, CACI was also a big part of the Abu Ghraib business. Former brigadier general Janis Karpinski has been a key whistleblower in that piece of corruption:

http://iraqforsale.org/karpinski.php
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #70
116. Correction:
Edited on Tue Aug-05-08 07:23 AM by leveymg
Hatfill was under contract with SAIC to build mock biowarfare trailers. This was first reported back in 2003.

According to these initial reports, Hatfill constructed such a trailer near Ft. Detrick at the time of the attacks and DIA later had him train the 75th Exploitation Group to search for Iraqi WMD, even though Hatfill was the prime suspect. By the way, Judy Miller accompanied that unit in its quest for the holy grail as it meandered around Iraq, falsely identifying weather balloon trailers as mobile WMD labs. General Patreaus held a press conference when the weather balloon trailers were found, and confirmed that they were WMD labs, a false statement he never retracted. Cheney and others continued mouthing these charges for another year.

A later report stated Hatfill built several trailers at SAIC as part of a CIA contract. The CIA-produced graphics of an "Iraqi biowarfare trailer" that Colin Powell displayed at the UN, was actually a design for SAIC trailers.

Here's an early report describing Hatfill's work building trailers used to train the 75 Exploitation Group.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1606-200...


Hatfill Trained U.S. Team on Bioweapons
Weapons Expert Had Lost His Security Clearance

By Marilyn W. Thompson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 3, 2003; Page A03

Months after Steven J. Hatfill came under FBI scrutiny in the anthrax investigation and lost his government security clearance, he played an important role in training U.S. intelligence agents and Special Forces for covert missions abroad to search for weapons of mass destruction and was involved in planning security at the U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan, according to documents and interviews with government officials and Hatfill's associates.

Hatfill trained an elite team from the Defense Intelligence Agency on ways to search for biological weapons, worked on secret projects with the Army's Delta Force and sat in on at least one State Department meeting on embassy security in postwar Afghanistan, according to the sources and documents. He secured letters of commendation for his work from officials at the DIA, which gathers military intelligence, and the State Department, which was trying to add protections to safeguard U.S. diplomats.

The disclosure of Hatfill's work on secret bioweapons projects casts new light on the government's investigation of the 2001 anthrax attacks, which killed five people and sickened 17 others. Hatfill, 49, has been labeled a "person of interest" in the anthrax case by Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, though the scientist and his supporters have strenuously denied that he had any involvement in the case.

Hatfill was among an exclusive group of biological weapons experts whose skills attracted the attention of the Pentagon, which needed instructors as it began to focus seriously on the hunt for bioweapons in Iraq, and the FBI, which was looking for people able to carry out the anthrax attacks. Hatfill's involvement with the Pentagon as the anthrax investigation intensified created tension between the FBI and the Defense Department, sources close to the investigation said.

SNIP

Hatfill, who once conducted research at the Army labs at Fort Detrick, Md., played an intimate role in U.S. preparations for the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, designing special equipment and countermeasures that U.S. teams could use in hostile situations. In one top-secret project, he even helped design a replica of the mobile biological weapons production laboratories that the Pentagon believed troops might encounter in Iraq.

Hatfill's work on the mock mobile lab was first revealed in yesterday's editions of the New York Times.

In March 2002, as the FBI's interest in him intensified, Hatfill led a training session for the DIA's Chemical and Biological Intelligence Support Team at Camp Dawson, W.Va., DIA spokesman Don Black said. The agency was preparing small numbers of agents to be sent to Afghanistan to relieve agents in the field. It was also training them for possible deployment to Iraq and other nations suspected of having chemical and biological stockpiles.

DIA and CIA agents assigned to the weapons hunt work with the 75th Exploitation Task Force, which searched for weapons in Iraq in recent months.

To facilitate Hatfill's involvement in the training program, the DIA had to appeal to its training contractor, Science Applications International Corp. (SAIC), to allow the bioweapons expert, who had been stripped of his security clearance, to participate, Black said.

A week before the session began, the SAIC had fired Hatfill amid mounting concern over the FBI's scrutiny of him. But after the DIA's request, the SAIC agreed to allow Hatfill to volunteer in the training program, a Hatfill associate said.

The DIA was so pleased by Hatfill's performance in the specialized training that division leader Esteban Rodriguez wrote a letter of commendation on his behalf to managers at the SAIC. In the letter, dated May 1, 2002, Rodriguez said that Hatfill "consistently displayed unsurpassed technical expertise, unique resourcefulness, total dedication and consummate professionalism. I wish to express my most sincere gratitude to this ultimate biological weapons expert."

Hatfill also secured a letter praising his work for the State Department's Diplomatic Security Service. That letter referred to a "counter-measures program" Hatfill developed for State Department personnel who might encounter biological weapons threats. In another effort with the State Department, Hatfill sat in on one meeting about embassy security in the spring of 2002 but was not sent to Afghanistan on an official mission, said a spokesman for the Diplomatic Security Service.

Black said that "there is nothing to indicate that the FBI objected" to Hatfill's role in the secret training course. FBI spokeswoman Debbie Weierman said the bureau would not comment on Hatfill's work for government agencies.

But other sources said the Pentagon's insistence on using Hatfill as an instructor even as the FBI intensified its investigation of him angered and puzzled some agents on the case. In the summer of 2002, when it was ready for delivery to Fort Bragg, N.C., the FBI demanded to search the mock mobile laboratory for evidence that it could have been used to prepare the anthrax used in the mailings. The searches found nothing, sources familiar with the events said.

While instructing government agents, Hatfill also was undergoing his own specialized training to go to Iraq as a biological weapons inspector for the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC). A medical doctor who once conducted virology research at the U.S. Army Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick, Hatfill was on the U.N. inspection roster but was never deployed to participate in the weapons hunt.

As an employee of the SAIC, stationed in McLean and in Joppa, Md., Hatfill worked partly as a bioweapons and counterterrorism trainer who designed realistic scenarios that could be used to prepare troops, government inspectors and first responders for encounters with biological and chemical agents. A more sensitive part of his job was working with defense and intelligence agencies to design equipment and countermeasures that could be used in an encounter with weapons of mass destruction.

One of Hatfill's most intriguing projects at the SAIC was his design of the mock mobile lab, which was assembled for training of the Delta Force, a commando unit of the U.S. Special Forces based at Fort Bragg. The nonfunctional lab was built on an 18-wheel trailer and fitted with a fermenter and other specialized equipment.

Hatfill planned the equipment, designed the interior layout and stored construction materials in a warehouse before building began, said a source who has seen the vehicle.

In its investigation, the FBI has traced all of the materials ordered for the lab by Hatfill and others at the SAIC, the source said.

The trailer, known at the SAIC as the "can," was under construction in late 2001 at a shop in Frederick, where Hatfill once lived in an apartment near Fort Detrick.


The FBI recently completed a search of a one-acre pond in that area, where it had previously found equipment that some investigators believe could have been used to prepare the letters containing the anthrax bacteria.

Col. Bill Darley, a spokesman for the U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, said that Hatfill also designed a fixed or "static" nonfunctional bioweapons lab for use in training Special Forces in an unspecified location in the western United States.

Darley said he could not discuss details of how these labs have been used in training. The programs, he said, are at the heart of the "dark tactics, techniques and procedures" used to prepare troops for missions abroad.

SNIP





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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #61
94. The statement , "It' doesn't make sense" is all you have to
acknowledge when you are dealing with the dumbasses in the WH....the more they try to cover up the more they fuckup. This is way to convenient and tidied up before they leave the WH.

The counselor seems like a hack, most psychiatrist would not divulget what this women has divulged.

If it doesn't make sense then the administration will do it.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #61
115. The FBI has been dragging its feet on this case because...

all leads point back to the government. Closing the case with Ivins seems to draw attention away from the other players who were being intensely investigated on various blogs around 2002 (as I'm discovering). One interesting piece of info is that the US Government violated the Biological Weapons Convention signed in 1972 based on its anthrax and other research. From a report by Wayne Madsen:


William Capers Patrick III was part of the original Fort Detrick anthrax development program, which "officially" ended in 1972 when President Nixon signed, along with the Soviet Union and United Kingdom, the Biological Weapons Convention. Nixon had actually ordered the Pentagon to stop producing biological weapons in 1969. It now seems likely that the U.S. military and intelligence community failed to follow Nixon's orders and, in fact, have consistently violated a lawful treaty signed by the United States.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yous guys really oughta get paid for this
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 09:12 AM by libnnc
I mean really Larisa...

Excellent work from REAL journalists right there.

K&R-ah

:kick:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. clearly, she is a useful idiot, being used
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. This whole thing is beginning to smell worse and worse
Even Freepers must admit -- in those few quiet instances when conscience actually kicks in -- that the stink around this occult republicon caper is Totally Evil.

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Rosie1223 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you Larisa for being a real journalist
I wish there were many more of you. We all would be so much better informed.

Thanks again!
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
39. Wouldn't you love to see Larisa get the Pulitzer for her excellent investigative journalism,
of the sort that well-paid corporate media talking heads wouldn't know how to do if it bit them on the ass!
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
113. Totally amazing work - rather than a Pulitzer, I'd like to see some heads roll...
I'd like to see this investigation turn into fucking house cleaning over at the FBI, DOJ, Whitehouse, etc....

Then, the Pulitzer. :)
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. What a witness.
If I were her, I'd stay in seclusion. Wonder if that "undisclosed location" is a guest ranch near Crawford or maybe Camp David.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. based on her 'testimony' -- might she deserve 'witness protection' so there is no follow-up now that
the case is to be closed.
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liam_laddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
57. Yeah, I'd say in the Maryland mountains...
having dinner and cocktails with the Veep and the other perps of the anthrax attacks. Ivins was RR'd to his death. The stench of this maladministration and the MSM in swallowing it whole is completely disgusting, although to be expected.
:toast: My deepest heartfelt thanks to LaLaRawRaw and her collaborators for another superb exposure of the fatal disease which is the Cheney administration. God help the USA!
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. If the threats she claimed Ivins made in a group therapy session
actually occurred, why didn't she bring in her supervisors on this? That's the claim she made in the audio of the court hearing. Yet, I have seen nothing from any higher level staff to corroborate this. It makes no sense since they would have been in a position to take immediate action instead of Duley having to wait until the FBI agent assigned to her suggested she file the protective order. (Again, her statement in the audio). And there's her saying in the hearing that she did that because she felt the FBI could not protect her. I mean, WTF?

Many more inconsistencies in that audio. Someone needs to follow up on these.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's real easy to remember how to spell it. The Rapist = therapist.
As for the attorneys fee. Even as a witness I wouldn't talk to the FBI without a lawyer. Also If she knew he was involved in the anthrax attack and didn't report it ASAP. There is the possibility of her being charged as an accessory after the fact. Who knew what when applies.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. Duley is a social worker who simply organized and conducted
group sessions. She was a recent grad with very little experience and money problems. She has had problems with drinking and driving, so much so that she has been arrested for it several times. She is a perfect candidate for manipulation.

And this social worker, who calls herself a therapist, is claiming that an award winning scientist, who has never been arrested for anything, who undoubtedly has at least a Top Secret clearance, is a homicidal danger and has been since grad school. He has been described as mild mannered and kind. Not such a convenient scapegoat but he will have to do because Hatfill filed a lawsuit.

I couldn't write a better espionage story.



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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Again, I cant wait to see the movie!
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 10:30 AM by sheeptramp
It'll have everything.

I hope it comes out soon
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. Someone who is so easily manipulated probably shouldn't be runnin
therapy groups. Maybe FBI can give her a job. Or, another job.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. I really think we need to close this case quickly. Like, NOW!
Far too much information may come out otherwise... ;)
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. Larisa's at-largely article prior to this one mentioned locations
If Ivins lived in MD and the anthrax letters were mailed from NJ, how could Ivins have been in two places at once ? She also mentions scientists and the Tripod II biowarfare 'wargame' going on on Sept 11, 2001, and says the govt. should be looking for its suspects amongst those few. This appears to NOT be what the govt. is doing. Hmmm. Why ?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. Does KO know about this?
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. In the words of Dr. Thompson: "Strange tales from strange times."
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, that is.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. Deffinitely requires another K&R n/t
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. Did you see this post?
"I have been a close friend of Dr. Bruce Ivins for years. The FBI needed a scapegoat, especially after Stephen Hatfill, whose foot the FBI ran over, won a $5.2 M lawsuit against them.

The new FBI director needed a capture in this case. So, they took all of the Ft. Detrick anthrax researchers and put them under intense interrogation.

Bruce was a mild, meek and sensitive scientist. The FBI showed his clinically depressed daughter, who was institutionalized in a mental hospital, photos of the anthrax victims, and said "your father did this." They offered his son $2.5 M and a sportscar if he would "rat" on his father.

Bruce could not stand stand up to the constant harrasment by the FBI. So we have lost a very talented researcher, so that the FBI can close the case...

Posted by :Dr. Gerry Higgins | August 04, 2008 at 07:02 AM"

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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. "They offered his son $2.5 M and a sportscar if he would "rat" on his father."
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 10:40 AM by sheeptramp
How much did they offer his "theripist"?


She apparently had attorney fees, and was living off her savings because of a drinking problem.

Does anyone know if she's driving a shiney new sportscar?



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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Exactly
I am trying to figure out who Dr. Gerry Higgins is.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
110. Gerry Higgins..
Edited on Tue Aug-05-08 01:13 AM by undergroundpanther
Hmmm..

An Anthrax tip...

UPDATE BELOW

To my colleagues in the press running around after the Anthrax story, I have gotten an interesting comment that could be a tip worth following. Let me be clear, I do not know who this is or if the person is using their real name or if any of the allegations are true. But I am also not investigating this story for an article as I am traveling for a different story at the moment. I have the commentators email and will share it with reputable journalists so long as there is an agreement that the person's contact information remain private until you are able to get a release from him. Contact me at my RS account.

For those of you on this story, I think you should see if you can locate the person named and see if you can authenticate that it was them who posted the comment. If it pans out, then your next question to the FBI will be obvious (hint: the son):

##

I have been a close friend of Dr. Bruce Ivins for years. The FBI needed a scapegoat, especially after Stephen Hatfill, whose foot the FBI ran over, won a $5.2 M lawsuit against them.

The new FBI director needed a capture in this case. So, they took all of the Ft. Detrick anthrax researchers and put them under intense interrogation.

Bruce was a mild, meek and sensitive scientist. The FBI showed his clinically depressed daughter, who was institutionalized in a mental hospital, photos of the anthrax victims, and said "your father did this." They offered his son $2.5 M and a sportscar if he would "rat" on his father.

Bruce could not stand stand up to the constant harrasment by the FBI. So we have lost a very talented researcher, so that the FBI can close the case...

Posted by :Dr. Gerry Higgins | August 04, 2008 at 07:02 AM
http://www.atlargely.com /

Simulation skills for training,by Higgins..
http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n4/v55n4.pdf .

http://www.hypercosm.com/company/people/higginsg.html
Look at the bottom of page 65,in this book Gerry Higgins is written about..
http://books.google.com/books?id=4yThE6vChBAC&pg=PA66&l...
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. I found a Gerry Higgins in Silver Spring Maryland
Can't be sure it is the same one. I also find some old articles about Alzheimer's research by a Dr. Gerry Higgins of the National Institute on Aging. This guy?

http://isbndb.com/d/person/higgins_gerald_a.html

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
63. Imagine what the FBI promised the "estranged" brother --- !!!
Didn't this all break loose almost immediately after the Leahy vs Mukasey exchange

on the Anthrax affair in the recent hearing? Supposedly Leahy was following up

with a private meeting with Mukasey ---

In a weird sort of way, that probably pushed them to this ridiculous charge against

Ivins???





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SpookyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
69. Is that real?
"The FBI showed his clinically depressed daughter, who was institutionalized in a mental hospital, photos of the anthrax victims, and said "your father did this."

They fucking did this? Has that been verified?

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. Sickening, isn't it? Deliberate mental torture.
Re "The FBI showed his clinically depressed daughter, who was institutionalized in a mental hospital, photos of the anthrax victims, and said "your father did this."

They fucking did this? Has that been verified?


I don't know if it's been verified or not, but I wouldn't put anything past them.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
120. Remember Gonzales tracked down Ashcroft in his hospital bed---!!!
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
96. Do you have a link to the Gerry Higgins post?
Thanks in advance if you post it here.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. is she a licensed theripist (sic)? i don't think they teach that
at a liberal arts college.

ellen fl
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. No, she's not. She earned a certificate to do drug counseling. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Since many states privatized mental health care, almost anyone can earn such certificates.
I don't know about Maryland. I do know that in many states, mental health care has been completely outsourced to private groups who hire "counselors" with little or no training to run group "therapy" sessions for people arrested for DUI or referred by physicians for mental health care.

In North Carolina there is a huge scandal about this, as it turns out that many of the private companies provided very poor or nonexistent care, for which they were paid large sums of money in contractual fees.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. I was surprised at how easy it is to get one here. n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yes. This woman is no expert. She sounds unstable.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. It's freaky to me that no one questioned her allegations.
No one. Not the judge at the hearing, not the press, nada. :shrug:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
52. I wouldn't have expected the press to question her allegations!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. But, the judge didn't either at that hearing!
If you were a judge and I told you someone was homicidal, wouldn't you want details?! No one asked her a single question about all the charges she made against him.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Good point.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
112. I have known quite a few
unstable "mental health professionals"....It isn't all that unusual.
BTW Psychiatrists have the highest suicide rate if the suicide statistics are grouped by careers...I have met a few shrinks in the hospitals I was in as patients...
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
92. Thereipey, Fineanchill advizsing, counsilling

Are all "professions" that do not mandate a defined course of training.

Even Realtors(TM) must have some formal training.


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Thorandmjolnir Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. Enemy Combatant
Why did the FBI worry about building a case against this man? Couldn't Bush just designate him an enemy combatant and haul him away to some military brig and use "enhanced interrogation " techniques until he confessed?

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VWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
60. Nah, they only do that to "brown" people
Didn't you get the memo?

:sarcasm:
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
65. The stakes are too high here
If this were about an ordinary event concerning ordinary people, perhaps so. But this is a high-profile case, and they still want to maintain the illusion of due process.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
24. Wow! We need to keep this kicked. K & R n/t
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. Anthrax suspects colleague blames FBI for suicide
He calls motives ascribed to Bruce Ivins in mailings that killed 5 ridiculous



Ultimately, Byrne feels Ivins apparent suicide was triggered when he was removed from Fort Detrick by police after ranting about weapons and making death threats, and admitted to a psychiatric ward.

I think he committed suicide when he walked out of the building, escorted by law enforcement officials, Byrne told Vieira. That meant the end of his career. That meant he never had a scientific career.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26007186 /


Researcher Kept Security Clearance as FBI Closed In


By Carrie Johnson, Marilyn W. Thompson and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, August 4, 2008; Page A03

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...



Mahvish Rukhsana Khan


http://www.booktv.org/ShowImage.aspx?ProgramId=9565
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Were $$ offered to his kid?
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Get this....
Among that evidence are two computers used by the public at the C. Burr Artz Public Library in downtown Frederick, according to Frederick County's library director. The FBI removed the computers from the library's second floor last week, Darrell Batson told the Frederick News-Post.

Batson, who could not be reached for comment yesterday, told the News-Post that the two agents who requested the computers did not have a court order but persuaded him nonetheless to surrender the computers. The agents did not mention Ivins, anthrax or Fort Detrick, Batson said, but he would not discuss what they did say.

Debbie Weierman, a spokeswoman for the FBI's Washington Field Office, declined to comment yesterday on the bureau's contacts with library officials.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Public computers that anyone could use?
So are they hiding evidence regarding Ivins...or the real anthrax killer?
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Whos button did Ivins push. bubonic plague?
On July 10, the day he was taken to a hospital for psychiatric evaluation, for example, Ivins spent part of the afternoon at a sensitive briefing on a new bubonic plague vaccine under development at the Army's elite biological weapons testing center, according to a former colleague who talked with him there.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
66. Re the MSNBC article
Like many colleagues at Fort Detricks Army medical lab, Ivins served as an occasional consultant for the FBI during the investigation.

This seems like another change from previous reports that Ivins actually headed up the testing
of samples in the investigation.

We have to go back to the first articles and recheck them ---

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
67. Very courageous of Byrnes to speak out --- I'm sure they all feel threatened . . .
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 02:58 PM by defendandprotect
Re the Washington Po article ---

Daschle comments in that one, especially about the the government investigators

not keeping Congress informed. In other information I've read, that's very clear.

In fact, after a request by one of the Senators a way back there's a comment later

that the government decided against having a meeting with Congress.


I think clearly Cheney set out to get Leahy -- on the way to closing down Congress

which was a threat to them immediately after the stolen 2000 election and especially

after they pulled 9/11. I think a lot of that fear was about COMMUNICATIONS FROM

THE PUBLIC COMING INTO CONGRESS . . . and they definitely wanted to stop that.


Even at this late date, mail is still being irradiated and then dried out for a few weeks!

I would imagine that a lot of information and documents disappeared in that close down

of Congress!!

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
36. Keep digging.
This "theripist" doesn't pass the smell test.

:kick:
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
37. Someone should send this thread to Kieth Olbermann!
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
38. The "NUT" Here Clearly IS NOT Ivins... But DULEY!
Therre is more behind this "suicide" than meets the eye. Hmmm? :puke: Can we say COVER-UP?
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
40. K&R n/t
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. it is a whole load of crap....bush/cheney are the perps
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
43. Yum. This is like eating cotton candy in my brain.
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FraDon Donating Member (316 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. k&r Did you see the hand writing on the restraining order request
she filed against Bruce Ivins on July 24th? It had the competence and confidence of a terrified middle schooler, unprepared for a pop quiz. My first thought was "this woman's been drugged, and/or someone's got a gun to her head."

Keep pulling on the loose threads Larisa and the rest of tribe of citizen journalists; the web of deceit is unraveling.

Truth, justice & reconciliation to follow.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. Irreconcilable differences.
This can only lead to a complete break between us and them.

They're going to prison.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
101. maybe she was in a similar state of mind when she allegedly attacked her husband
projecting maybe?
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
45. IMHO, this is a really amateurish cover-up

But they'll get the media on board and try to hammer it home. I'm thinking that in the meantime, they'll classify everything that could possibly counter the government's version of things. The only hope in getting at the truth is a whistle-blower, and a media that won't let the story die; the latter is unbelievable.
:scared:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
68. Newspapers are going because no one is reading them -- TV is next . . . !!!
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. K&R There are way too many "suicides" connected to
this evil administration.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
48. Wow.
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
49. Anybody else notice what she put down as her "race"?
You can see it on a screen capture in the Salon article. I'm trying to reconcile that with the photo of her that appeared in her local paper.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #49
71. Here's her photo, a typical "white asiatic indian arab" person. Sure.


And this is what she filled in in her report:



Seriously: WTF?

Nothing makes sense in this case.
Everything about this Jean Duley is laughable and scary. She can't even spell he own "profession".
This is one dark, messy, poorly executed mess.

I believe we are only seeing the beginning of this.
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #71
91. au contraire

"I believe we are only seeing the beginning of this."


We have seen the last of her.

The case has been solved.

Move along, nothing to see here.

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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #71
106. BSW?
Bachelors in Social Work? I thought you had to have a Masters in Social Work to be a therapist.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #49
74. sounds like she was trying to push all kinds of buttons
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
59. This is a white-hot investigation by Larisa! Go lady GO!
  Throwin' it down, Intellius style! Ain't no hiding! :thumbsup:

PB
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
62. Grand jury testimony from August 1? What grand jury?
I want more info on this. We knew well before Libby was indicted about the grand jury investigation that Fitzgerald was heading. Who's in charge of this grand jury investigation? And why can't this prosecutor compel Brian Ross to reveal his goddamn sources?
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
73. Thoughts - she's incompetent and ripe for manipulation - the perfect patsy.
n/t
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. I don't think she's in hiding from the press.
Not only is she the perfect patsy, it sounds like she's pretty expendable to whoever set her up. She may just be smart enough to know it too.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
76. nice job Larisa, kpete, smoking gun, etc.
k&r. what a crock of shit this story is. (not the research everyone is doing on it--but the story itself)

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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
77. Easy money bet: a close family member or friend of hers is with The Company.
Count on it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. Do you think so? She just sounds young and easy and stupid.n/t
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
78. I have been subpoena to testify
I have been moran, i have!
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
79. May she's been ...
disappeared?
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. Either that or she's afraid of being disappeared.
The more I think about it, the more unlikely it seems that she's in hiding from the press. She may be just smart enough to know how expendable she is.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #84
107. She's the weak link now
If she names the FBI agent(s) who coached her, she names the people who know who they're covering for.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
81. The brother's interview
on radio was totally incredible. I suppose it was good they let him rant on and reveal he was very satisfied with himself for screwing over his brother and kept repeating the TP word "omnipotent" although he couldn't help sticking it to his OTHER brother as well. Seriously inferior mental abilities I would have to believe is part of his tiff with his siblings in hi-tech science jobs.

The interview on NPR also served to balance the vehement testimonials and incredulity of all his co-workers and neighbors against the smooth but puzzling FBI case being leaked "procedurally" into the media.

All the evidence, the profiles, the investigations cannot possibly be so critically "new". it still looks like a rigged process to break down seemingly unstable employees, starting with better suspects and more plausible personalities. In an election year, one guess, presumably shared by the suspect's associates, is that this turnaround, timed after the embarrassment of losing Hatfill and the settlement, is that this "break"(ironic word) in the case is part of the Bushworld march to victory this fall- added to the glorious surge, modest troop movements, maybe a dip in gas prices and sustaining the stock market on a sea of new paper. I suspect some sort of capture of Bin Laden is only out of the realm of over coincidence according to the measure the press dutifully falls into line.

Cracks are showing here for good reason. The FBI, even before Bush, has screwed with suspects and evidence before. Bush/Cheney have no credibility and the timing stinks.

The only other seemingly sentient beings in the world who would dutifully take the government story at face value are a woeful chunk of the Dem leadership. At least Daschle isn't buying it.

Now as to judgments about this, if it is yet another consistent government fraud, should include the fact the the FBI easily kept its hands off the bio "defense" program thus crippling it into an equally hampered human suspect pressuring routine. Bush and Cheney intruded with their own conspiracies, the very least being the intent to use this or any other incident to justify the Iraq War. They had shots before anyone else in the country. Well prepared and well knowledgeable to exploit easily all disasters, the scumbags. Equally, it is obvious that the FBI can't have it both ways. They are trying to pretend that they had a locked up case but yet kept the "unstable" man free, under extreme pressure. They are quickly trying to reveal their planned progress to the grand jury, etc, their plan to offer him a plea bargain??? and march on to closing the case for some obscure certainty it was just one man. The forensics they offer could have been done YEARS ago, if valid.

After all this it is conceivable that like Osama's chauffeur, this guy is guilty of surprising things, it is just that this government cares not a damn about real credibility and has done too much to ever be trusted without a high bar. A high bar the MSM never raises from their prone lick-spittle pose of trusting naivete.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. Of course Daschle isn't buying it. If this is a cover-up,
it's the most ham-handed, amateurish cover-up I've ever seen.

The only other seemingly sentient beings in the world who would dutifully take the government story at face value are a woeful chunk of the Dem leadership. At least Daschle isn't buying it.

They aren't even bothering to cover their tracks, to the point where it looks deliberate. Just like the surveillance of Ivins was open and intended to drive him over the edge, this "suicide" is a very poorly disguised set-up, intended to send a message.

And Congress--the House and Senate both and Leahy and Daschle in particular--are the recipients of said message. And what they are being told is that there better not be an investigation even after Bush leaves office. No special prosecutors if you value your health. They've been sent that message before with the original anthrax attacks, so I guess the Ivins "suicide" is just a friendly reminder.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #81
119. The brother's interview
Edited on Tue Aug-05-08 11:35 AM by MetaTrope
was, I suspect, evidence that not everybody has turned down the multi-million dollar bribes the NYT is reporting the FBI made to Ivins' kids...
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
85. K&R, Duley is clearly being propped up and supported to feed the media...

hopefully with true journalism such as this, and the noise raised by those closest to Ivins we can start getting some true answers to what really happened.
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
88. they want to close the case - sounds like crap to me - lot more behind this but
they want it off the stage before our war criminals leave IMHO
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
89. As a doctor ...

... if I were 'of interest' to the Bushstapo I would:

1) Take my SSRIs (even though they may not work);
2) Not ride in any airplanes;
3) Stay away from windows.

The dead cannot defend themselves, and we are all, (unless we are enemy combatants, terraists, atheists, black, democraps ...) "innocent until proven guilty" - by the outmoded view of our Constitutional Republic.

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Imalittleteapot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
90. Heard her statement on CNN yesterday and wondered
what kind of therapist publicly divulges information about a patient? I figured that the rat I was smelling was my a continuation of my Bush conspiracy sickness.

Good detective work.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
93. Maybe the author of the note is actually in the legal profession?
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 07:01 PM by Uncle Joe
"And just what kind of therapist cannot spell the term of her own profession, spelling it "theripist?" She got subpoena right, which is far more difficult to spell (although the tense is wrong) and yet a term that is used on a daily basis in the field that she actually works in she could not get right?"

When I spelled checked the note, sociopathic didn't pass muster either?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
95. A crock of crapola to cover Ivins being "suicided".
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gutterpunk Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
97. Regarding the Therapists Spellings......
Here's a hypothesis: Perhaps, being fully aware of the fact that she was being pressured/forced to do the FBI's bidding, Ms. Duley deliberately sabotaged the forms with misspellings in order to clue everyone in on the fact that she was under duress. She's smarter than we think, perhaps.

If she WANTS everyone to dismiss her as a patsy, then she's done her job well--and hit back the FBI--making them look like the bad guys--which they are, of course. But, when the morons over at the Bureau figure it out, she's also going to be in a bad "accident."
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
99. Why did she lose her job and HOW THE HELL is she "paying for attorneys"?
:shrug:

Why would she lose her job as an alcohol/drug counselor over this? :shrug:

Not that such counselors EVER make more than a PITTANCE for their living but, DAYUM, where is the money coming from to pay attorneys?
:shrug:
I mean, who IS this woman?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #99
111. She's had three DUIs in the last several years. Maybe
she had legal expenses over that.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
100. Do we have any testimonials about Ivins other than this woman and the
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 09:10 PM by ooglymoogly
constabulary and is it certain Ivins committed suicide. What are his friends saying?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
102. read the "progress" of this
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 10:12 PM by azurnoir
"therapists" headline statements over the weekend which became more more extreme with each headline going from something like "he may have mentioned something like this" to "HE'S A MURDERING MANIAC" that is not exact but close

Also had to wonder while she's blabbing away to the press if HIPPA law didn't come into effect.
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Ima Misfit Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
103. Irwin was committed to the psych ward because he was
"a danger to himself or others." Based on statements from his friends and colleagues, Irwin was clearly depressed. Any Doctor who believed Irwin was suicidal, would have been required to commit him to a psych ward - so he wouldn't harm himself.

So if Irwin was in the hospital for depression, which seems likely, why would he have been part of a Duley's group session for drug addicts?
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
104. Sheppard pratt??!! OMG that explains alot.
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 11:14 PM by undergroundpanther
WTF,no wonder the incompetence. Sheppard is one of the most lax incompetent,money grubbing,full of shit,bully staffed,toxic psych places I have ever been stuck in.


That place is full of fraud and incompetent shrinks,and mind games.How do I know? I was there,I know people there. I have seen competent,compassionate new staff leave Sheppard , because of all the bullshit,abuses,incompetence and palm greasing and backroom deals going on there.I have heard the therapists ranting about how fucked up Sheppard Pratt is.
Sheppard tried to mix violent offenders in with the regular population,Two I know of personally were disasters.One ended up in murder.I knew the staff who was killed and she was the most abusive mean asshole to patients I was glad to see her leave the program I was at. She went to mount Airy house and a guy with a violent history there killed her, it was in the news and all..No doubt it was his violent tendancies classhing with her fucking asshole personality.

The other assault was on my best friend on a unit I was on.This bully asshole came into my room, I told him to get out, than he tried to assault me ,but I fought him stared him down and ,he backed off.I walked past him,he began to threaten my friend a small built guy,walking down the hall,as I ran to get staff to help contain the situation. By the time I returned with staff who blew off my warnings about this violent patient,as not important..They moseyed out the nurses station, it took them 15 minutes to even walk out the damn door, and investigate what I was so urgent about.They seemed to not even care ,until they saw my friend was being pummeled and was bleeding from the same violent asshole that had tried to assault me in my room.Then I guess they were worried about legal consequences..That got them doing their fucking job.

There are other incidents of where Sheppard staff minimized the risk violent offenders posed to the community and to patients..besides these two.

Sheppard Pratt generally seems to not get it that people with violent histories really are a danger and risk to others.I cannot tell you how many times I was endangered,other patients were endangered because unit staff and doctors social workers,therapists all of them were so oblivious to the risk people with violent histories pose to other patients and the community at large..Sheppard Pratt has some Fucked up priorities when it comes to safety.
Sheppard Pratt was once considering opening a halfway house for violent sex offenders several years ago.I was still living in the area,at that time and I was really terrified by that proposal,and so was the entire Towson area. I was upset by it because I know how Sheppard tends to blow off the danger and minimize the threats people with violent case histories cause.

While treating non -violent patients,many of them were just under stress,not violent at all, they were treated like monsters for not doing as they were told or resisting treatment for reasons staff never bothered to even ask them about.Treating non violent people as if they were dangerous is one of the many incomprehensible things I learned about Sheppard Pratt...
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
105. If I was a conspiracy theorist
I might say that the anthrax attacks right after 9/11 were mighty convenient. They served to keep everyone on edge so that the Patriot act could be easily rammed through Congress. I am wondering if they might not have wanted the case closed before the new administration got in office...
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #105
123. "the anthrax attacks right after 9/11 were mighty convenient"
Nothing any committed coincidence theorist can't explain at the drop of a hat.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
108. This occurred after 9-11, "they" closed the books on that and the only thing remaining was
the anthrax story, which until now was a loose end. Bush & Cheney closing the book on anthrax before they leave Washington while they still have the opportunity.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
109. WSJ article: "Bruce Ivins Wasn't the Anthrax Culprit"
Just posted online, for the morning edition.

This article is wrtitten by Richard Spertzel, head of the biological-weapons section of Unscom from 1994-99, member of the Iraq Survey Group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bruce Ivins Wasn't the Anthrax Culprit


By RICHARD SPERTZEL
August 5, 2008;

Over the past week the media was gripped by the news that the FBI was about to charge Bruce Ivins, a leading anthrax expert, as the man responsible for the anthrax letter attacks in September/October 2001.

But despite the seemingly powerful narrative that Ivins committed suicide because investigators were closing in, this is still far from a shut case. The FBI needs to explain why it zeroed in on Ivins, how he could have made the anthrax mailed to lawmakers and the media, and how he (or anyone else) could have pulled off the attacks, acting alone.

I believe this is another mistake in the investigation.
(...)


Looks like more and more people are noticing the rotting odor of this case.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #109
121. This needs tobe an original post. nt
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
114. kr
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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
117. What Ever Happened To Patient/Client Priviledge?
Most doctors would go to jail rather than disclose patient data. Here we have someone that is eager to tell everything; perhaps even embellishing what they know. What are her motives? Clearly, this does not pass the smell test so it is only smart to check into her background. Does she have a history of misconduct.
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Brotherjohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
118. I thought this woman's story sounded WAY too convenient from Day 1.
As did claims that Iraq may somehow be linked to the Anthrax mailings (MSNBC played a tape of McCain saying that on a 2001 episode of Letterman a couple of night ago).

I hope Obama's keeping tabs on this, in addition to Executive Orders to be reviewed.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
122. You have done it again Kpete
Is there noting you can not do well?
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nikto Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
124. Jean C. Duley is going to end up...
Edited on Tue Aug-05-08 11:37 PM by nikto
...in the same unmarked grave as VICKY ISEMAN.




This whole affair is probably the most ham-handed coverup attempt of any major scandal/murder/plot/intrigue in many decades.

The KKKorporate Media will work hard against the Truth, as always.
That is their solemn, deadly-serious job.

But this one stinks to high heaven and beyond.

It's like the police are "trying" to find a murder victim's body, and
they just refuse to check a van that reeks of rotten flesh
and has blood marks on the outside.

Investigating officers:
"Nah. Must be spoiled tomatoes from the supermarket. Go on. No Problem, sir".

And Hannibal Bu$hCo escapes again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








WE ALL KNOW THIS WAS MURDER AND FRAUD.

Anything other implication is bullshit.

Plain & simple.






The Murderers are going to get away.
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