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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:49 PM
Original message
Military Shows Off New Ray Gun (AP)
Military Shows Off New Ray Gun


Wednesday January 24, 2007 9:16 PM

By ELLIOTT MINOR

Associated Press Writer

MOODY AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. (AP) - The military calls its new weapon an "active denial system,"
but that's an understatement. It's a ray gun that shoots a beam that makes people feel as if
they are about to catch fire.

Apart from causing that terrifying sensation, the technology is supposed to be harmless - a
non-lethal way to get enemies to drop their weapons.

-snip-

During the first media demonstration of the weapon Wednesday, airmen fired beams from a large
dish antenna mounted atop a Humvee at people pretending to be rioters and acting out other
scenarios that U.S. troops might encounter in war zones.

-snip-

Anyone hit by the beam immediately jumped out of its path because of the sudden blast of heat
throughout the body. While the 130-degree heat was not painful, it was intense enough to make
the participants think their clothes were about to ignite.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6368907...
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. While the 130-degree heat was not painful?
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Freedom is On The March!
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. That article doesn't make sense.
It's not painful but people think they're clothes are about to catch on fire?
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Probably kind of like sticking your hand in a hot oven
since your hand is not making direct contact with the surface it's acquiring heat more slowly so it's not "dangerous" per-se, but it does cause discomfort eventually. Considering the fact that the beam i only 130 deg. The heat from the laser must be more direct. Apparently the people were not seriously hurt in the tests, but I doubt they were completely uneffected and the weapon will not be used in test situations.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. People pretending to be rioters in a war zone? Don't they mean "attackers"?
Oh. Wait. Nevermind.

This isn't designed to worry "the enemy." It's designed to worry us.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Active Denial System, meet "The Retroflector."
Don't go to a protest without a retroflector!

Multidirectional retroflector patent invention
Multidirectional retroreflectors and methods of reflecting light beams from multiple directions are provided. The multidirectional retroreflectors utilize a ...
www.freshpatents.com/Multidirectional-retroflector-dt20...

Corner Cube Retroflector - What does CCR stand for? Acronyms and ...
What does CCR stand for? Definition of Corner Cube Retroflector in the list of acronyms and abbreviations provided by the Free Online Dictionary and ...
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Corner+Cube+Retro...

Retroflector - US Patent 6974218
Retroflector - US Patent 6974218 from Patent Storm. A layer composite of plastic material forms a retroreflector and includes at least one transparent ...
www.patentstorm.us/patents/6974218.html

High efficiency cube corner retroflective material - Patent 4938563
The present invention provides a retroreflective material which is efficient at high angles of incidence and which may be individually tailored so as to ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/4938563.html

High efficiency retroreflective material - US Patent 4895428
The retroflective material of claim 1 wherein said tetragonal faces meet said base at substantially 45 angles. 5. The retroflective material of claim 1 ...
www.patentstorm.us/patents/4895428-claims.html

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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. I just looked up another thing, Faraday cages...
are used in home microwaves as shielding. I wonder if that would help? It's much easier to build a Faraday cage, I've seen the MythBusters on Discovery channel do it.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. A Faraday Cage or other shielding has one major drawback.
Unlike a Retroflector, it doesn't give you the pure joy of directing the beam straight back at the guy shooting at you.

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Sir Jeffrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Relax...
The article explicitly says this weapon is slightly better than sticking your head in a microwave.

:sarcasm:

"The system uses millimeter waves, which can penetrate only 1/64th of an inch of skin, just enough to cause discomfort. By comparison, microwaves used in the common kitchen appliance penetrate several inches of skin."
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. "several inches of skin" !?
:wtf:

I'd heard of being thick-skinned, but who has several inches of the stuff?

Unless they're going to use it to get bush out the Whitehouse, of course.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I just looked this up on wikipedia and "skin depth"
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 05:04 PM by Gonnabuymeagun
is a measurement for the radio-waves it uses. Perhaps the reporter was confused. Here is he link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_depth
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Ah, that would explain it
Good find. :)
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Put your hand in a microwave, you'll get the idea.
They have designs for larger versions that can cook whole neighborhoods. This is just to get us used to the idea.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. I was expecting a picture of a Reagan grandchild.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. See prior thread (includes discussion of counter-measures)
Air Force tests new ADS Weapon on humans and dogs
Tue Dec-05-06 12:38 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...




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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. ...
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 05:12 PM by originalpckelly
stupid me.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. We could create a turtle like the Romans used to do with their shields:
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Wait a second, it's a faraday cage...
which is not the same because it won't let em waves in or out.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Taser guns are/were only the begining. These weapons will get....
worse and worse and worse. :argh: The world has turned to shit since * took office!

:argh:
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yeah "non-lethal" weapons, right. We know what non-lethal means.
They don't *have* to kill you, but they can be used that way.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Exactly. They are supposed to be called "less than lethal".
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Chaff
I suspect this weapon will not work if you can flood the air twixt you and it with bits of tinfoil and confetti, I suspect, even a 1mm hz. It is like microwave, only jumbo size.

BTW, If you think they can't dial that waveform any old way they like, you're dreaming. But metallic chaff should be effective regardless, I believe.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. Actually, this type of microwave weapon can be easily defeated...
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 05:12 PM by originalpckelly
I was cooking a stuffed bell pepper in the microwave when it donned on me that creating some sort of gel which would have a high water content could give people protection from this.

Did more research, home microwaves use a Faraday cage.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. Article says that being wet makes the microwave beam worse. n/t
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. I want one!
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SanCristobal Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Am I the only one who thinks this story is cool?
:hide:
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yeah, haha...
so funny, tell that to the people exercising their rights who get microwaved.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Yes.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Yup
Frying people, or giving them the impression they are being fried, is not cool in any sense of the word.
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SanCristobal Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Ok, it's not cool in a temperature sense, but it is pretty cool as far as
bad ass weapons go. Wouldn't you rather have people incapacitated by microwaves then killed by bullets?
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. No
This is a form of torture, meant to prevent people from assembling peaceably, plain and simple.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. In practice it will not be incapacitated, by cooked alive...
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 05:28 PM by originalpckelly
by microwaves or shot by bullets which are relatively limited in quantity and firing rate. One machine gun has have to have a lot of bullets to shoot down or threaten a crowd, this however, has the ability to do major harm to the crowd. One person can and will have a lot of control.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Do you remember how the police acted in New York during The RNC?
Imagine if they could just fly a helicopter overhead microwaving people to herd them into holding pens.

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SanCristobal Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yes, and supposedly they had sound guns pointed at the crowd.
What difference does a cool new gun make? Cops use tear gas, rubber bullets and nightsticks today, and used dogs, batons and water guns 50 years ago. The state will always have to power to break up organized groups of people if it wants to, the 1st Amendment be damned. The same claims being made about this weapon could be made about anything that lets someone injure another person. I still say this news is cool.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Eventually, cops will use this to break-up rowdy parties, clear the streets...
when a VIP's motorcade is going by...

make sure people aren't watching the cops when they're arresting someone...

keeping the homeless out of the park at night...

Oh, the possibilities for abuse are endless.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. But What About The Old Ray Gun??
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
37. Great - a TORTURE gun, just what we need. For the country 'that doesn't torture'.
I wonder if these will be given to cops in place of the problematic tasers they now use?
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