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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:28 PM
Original message
"We Stand With Israel Now and Forever"
March 24, 2002

Remarks of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at the "We Stand With Israel Now and Forever" Rally at the 92nd Street Y in New York City

As Delivered

Thank you very much, Mort. I would like to thank all of you here today for convening this important show of solidarity and support on behalf of Israel, the people of Israel, and freedom-loving people and democracies everywhere.

I would like to thank the Conference of Presidents, UJCIsrael Now and Forever, UJA, JCRC, the 92nd Street Y and those of you who are here with us at the Y and others who are with us throughout our country and, indeed, throughout the world.

You know, just one month ago I traveled to Israel in order to convey the support and solidarity that New Yorkers and Americans feel toward Israelnot just at this moment, but support we felt long before, and support that we will continue to feel in the future. I traveled to Israel to demonstrate that we stand with Israel now and forever.

When I met with people on the streets, outside Sbarro's pizzeria, at Hadassah Hospital, and in a variety of settings throughout Jerusalem, I conveyed the same support and solidarity that we are demonstrating here today. Similarly, when I met with the Prime Minister, the Defense Minister, the Foreign Minister, and with other military and government officials, I made clear that we in the United States count on our government-- the American governmentto stand with Israel now and forever, just as the people of America stand with the people of Israel.

Today I am here not only as a United States Senator, not only as someone who has been to Israel seven times, who has supported the government and people of Israel for over twenty-plus years, but as an American citizen with one singular message the United States and Israel face a common threat. Make no mistake about it, the attack on the United States here in New York and at the Pentagon on September 11th comes from the same well of hatred and evil that stalks Israel. It is not possible for us to imagine confronting and winning the war against terrorism here and abroad, without our helping Israel win it at home.

Many of you know that during my husband's administration I did everything I could to support four successive governments of Israel. I believed then as I believe now that it is not for the United States to dictate to Israel the best way for Israel to defend herself and her people. Just as we expect our friends and allies to support the decisions of our elected governments, we stand with the government of Israel.

Make no mistake about it, as Israel defends herself, it does so because it is clear she has no alternative. The collapse of any effort to try to achieve a safe and secure resolution of the disputes the Palestinians have with Israel and the ensuing violence rests solely on the shoulders of Yasir Arafat. I want to be very clear about this, the responsibility for the violence and the collapse of the Camp David and the Taba discussions rests only with Yasir Arafat. He has failed as a leader. He has been unable and unwilling to reign in the forces of violence and terrorism, and he leaves a trail of violated vows and deaths along a path that should have and could have led to peace and life.

We know that he continues to exploit children in pursuit of his own aims. Whether it is through textbooks that he permits to be used in the classrooms of the Palestinian Authority or the encouragement of young suicide bombers. The use of children to further violence and political aims is absolutely unforgivable and needs to be condemned as such.

And we know something else don't we? We know the violence encouraged and permitted by Arafat, can still be ended by Arafat. If he were to choose today to renounce terrorism and other acts of violence, he could demonstrate in both English and Arabic that it is not just rhetorical support, but it is actions that count. Arafat can and must apprehend, prosecute and imprisonand keep in prisonknown terrorists.

Most important, because of what has happened during the last several weeks, he must be held responsible for those groups who act in his namethat means, Force-17, his own special security force. It also means Tanzim, the armed wing of Fatah. He failed to dissolve the Al-Asqa Brigades but this week we learned what the consequences for that failure was. I believe Arafat must be made to understand that the United States and all civilized nations stand with Israel in having zero tolerance for terrorism. And if he fails to do it himself, it will be done for himwith or without his agreement.

Let me add a word about the latest development concerning Iran and Arafat. When I was in Jerusalem I spoke about my deep concern that the relationship between the Palestinians and the Iranian government was deepening. At that time the evidence that I had came, of course, as we all know from the interception of the Karine Athe discovery of the boatload of weapons on its way to the Palestinian Authorityand from intelligence reports concerning Iranian involvement with the Palestinians. Well we know today, from the front page of the New York Times, that Iran and Arafat have forged a secret connection. The arms shipment aboard the Karine A loaded with 50 tons of illegal weapons mostly manufactured in Iran, is unfortunately, is just one part of the problem that we now face with respect to Iranian sponsorship of terrorism and its even greater involvement on behalf of the Palestinians.

The Palestinians' effort to forge an alliance with a patron-state of terror is something that deeply concerns us. Arafat's alliance with Iran represents a dangerous collaboration, not only for Israel, but for all of us. It is true that the axis of evil that includes Iran, is something that directly impacts our security. Now we know more clearly than ever that it is directly aimed at the heart of Israel as well. Despite the efforts of some in Iran to make reform in the government and despite everything we know about the desire of young people in Iran to rid themselves of the yolk of religious tyranny, the fact remains that Iran is the most active state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Therefore this latest news must be taken seriously, not only in the American capital, not only in Israel, but also in Europe. The Europeans must recognize that Iran poses a threat to all of us.

The hard-truth is that we are now engaged in a global effort against terrorism that is aimed at any democracy and aimed at any freedom-loving people. It is a dangerous time for Israel, but I would add, my friends, it is also a dangerous time for the United States. We need to recognize that our support for Israelour friendships and the relationships that many of us have with family and others in Israelis an important commitment because of what Israel represents and because of what we have in common with Israel. Our support for Israel is instrumental to our global effort to try to combat terrorism.

The other day, I signed a letter to the President and Vice President Cheney, along with Senator Schumer, saying that we do not believe that Vice President Cheney should meet with Yasir Arafat at this time. The reason I signed that letter is we have seen no movement whatsoever from Arafat. We have not seen the kind of action from Arafat that sends any message or signal that we can expect a resumption of efforts, on his part, to try to implement Tenet or Mitchell. Just as we never do anything to encourage terrorism, we cannot reward the status quo. We cannot agree to meet with Arafat and then get nothing in return for that meeting. Therefore, I hope that the President and the Vice President will think long and hard before they have such a meeting, unless or until there is a definite movement that everyone can agree represents a change of direction on behalf of Arafat.

I hope all of us, as we stand together with Israel and as we defend our democracies, will do so with the spirit of, not only the resolve I saw in Israel, but also with hope. Speaking of hope at a time like this may seem naive, it may seem out of place, but I know later in the program you'll hear from my wonderful friend Elie Wiesel who has said on numerous occasions, "There is no alternative for a free people, other than hope." We cannot give in to fatalism and pessimism. If we do, we would simply be handing a victory over to our adversaries. We have to be smart, hard-headed, tough-minded and focused. We must also believe we will see our way clear to a better future.

When I was in Jerusalem I had many experiences that I will carry with me for the rest of my life. I would like to share with you two of those experiences, in particular. I think we in America can do an even better job of telling Israel's story to the world. If you go to Hadassah Hospital, what do you see? You see people being taken care of no matter who they are or where they come from. I visited two young soldiers, both victims of the most horrific suicide bombings, bombs filled with nails and nuts and bolts designed to inflict the maximum injury upon these young people. One of the soldiers was still in very serious condition. His mother had invited me to come visit with her son. His mother was on one side of the bed and his father on the other, holding up a picture of his son prior to the bombing. He was a handsome, bright-eyed, young man doing his service, not only for his country, but for freedom. Before I said goodbye, one of the patient's surgeons said, "I'm sorry you did not get to meet the doctor who's taking care of this young soldier. His doctor is a Palestinian."

Then I visited with some other victims, one of whom was also a young soldier. He was Ethiopian and had been brought to Israel years ago for safety. He grew up loving Israel and loving to be reunited with his Jewish traditions and beliefs. He was on duty when he saw a suicide bomber. Just as our brave fire fighters did here in New York, he ran toward that bombertoward danger not away from itand he threw himself on him and absorbed the shock of the bomb.

Now what does that tell us about this country we stand with and defend? There is no place else in that region where you would have refugees from Ethiopia taken in and assimilated and made part of the society. There is no place else where you would have a hospital, largely supported by Americans, where Israeli and Arab doctors work side-by-side caring for victims both Arab and Israeli. Whenever someone asks me about Israel, I ask him or her, "Where else can you find a democracy in that part of the world that believes in freedom, human dignity and human rights, as Israel does? Where else can you find those ideals exemplified in the way I saw it at Hadassah Hospital?" That typifies what we are fighting for.

The perpetrators of the evil that stalks Israel and stalks the world, believe they own the truth and simply dismiss the rights and dignity of fellow human beings. They must be stopped.

I hope all of us will do everything we can to make sure that, not just the people who are in this auditorium, but people throughout America Jew and non-Jew alikeunderstand that when we stand up for Israel we are standing up for the fundamental human beliefs of democracy and freedom and we are standing up for America.

Thank you all very much.

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?i...
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Speak for yourself, woman.
Because you certainly do not speak for me.

Maybe Marc Rich can pony up $30 billion so we won't have to cough up our hard-earned dollars so Israel can go on the offensive.
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Middle finga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree she and the rest of our pro-Israel politicians do not speak
for me. A real leader IMO should let it be known that they intend to be an honest broker between Israel and Palistine.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. we stand for them...
give them billions of dollars a year, give them the most advanced weapons and missle weapons systems, we give them political capital and in return we get to condone the daily atrocities that isreal commits, we put our propaganda machine in full swing to make isreal look like the country that is being imposed on instead of the agressor and of course we get to look like the enabler to the middle east bully that we are.
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Old Vet Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well said friend!
I feel the same way.
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Babsbrain Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. and God forbid you question it
or you are called an anti-semite.

They can bomb a US Navy ship, but if you complain, you are called an anti-semite.

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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. No, when you talk about "negative Jewish influence", like you did
you get called an anti-Semite. Funny, that... you get called an anti-Semite for using anti-Semitic language. Surprise!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. What the fuck are you talking about
All the people you mentioned in your previous misguided thread are *American* citizens of Jewish religion/heritage, *not* Israelis. Or are all Jews supposed to be Israelis to you?
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Babsbrain Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Show me a Jewish person who does not work to preserve the Israli state.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Noam Chomsky
Next!

Are we still all the same now?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Noam Chomsky. Norman Finkelstein. Tony Judt. Ilan Pappe.
Want any more examples?
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
61. s/d
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 03:29 PM by entanglement
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. Is this a serious point?
"Show me a Jewish person who does not work to preserve the Israli (sic) state." ????


All Jewish Americans work so hard, in lockstep, preserving their motherland! :eyes:

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. OK, you said it not me!
And most Jews outside Israel are not 'of Israeli descent', unless you go back a couple of thousand years.

The negative influence of Jewish politicians is *terrible*. In America, they always vote for right-wing policies. *sarcasm* That's why 5 of the 23 senators who voted against the IWR were Jewish. 22% of the anti-war senators, and at that time 11 or 12% of the Senate as a whole. But you don't really need the dreadful influence of people like Feingold and Boxer, do you?

And what about those dreadful Jewish members of the Supreme Court? They both voted against the Bush vs Gore decision in 2000. Against those five good Christians who gave you and the world Bush!

How wonderful that there aren't more Jewish voters in America. A few more, and you might have got Gore elected by such a large majority that even Jeb Bush and the Supreme Court couldn't stop it. And that would have been dreadful, wouldn't it?
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Seriously. I didn't know Babs Bush was posting on DU n/t
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. Another thing that she didn't mention is our defense of Israel in the U.N.
The entire U.S. turned against France (Freedom Fries, etc. :eyes:) for threatening to use their veto and sanctioning an unprovoked war against Iraq. They consulted their constitution (remember? we have one, too!) and decided that sanctioning this war would have violated that...

But what was never publicized in the mainstream news was the use that the U.S. had made of their vetos, over the years. France had used their veto power exactly twice in the entire history of the U.N. The U.S. had used theirs 87 times, mostly in defense of their ally, Israel, despite their repeated violation of U.N. sanctions, while we used Iraq's violations as our excuse to invade... :shrug:

As for the war with the Lebanese, we could have stopped that in its tracks, if we had ceased supplying Israel with financial aid and weapons. This double standard may be lost on those who watch the mainstream news, but it's sure not lost on the rest of the world, especially in the Middle East... :-(
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Another reason she dominates the polls. Bravo. nt.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. But another reason she will *NEVER* get my vote. *NEVER*. (NT)
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wow... When did Israel become a part of the USA? Statements like
these are the reason people hate us for "our freedoms"...
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
42. Same way other countries are. What? You don't think we'd say, "We stand by Britain,
now and forever"??
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. Of course we wouldn't say that about Britain. We fought them in
a war, remember. We would say we are Britains ally and share the same principles of Democracy with them.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good thing none of the other candidates supports Israel.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I am sure they do - feel free to post what they say about it
I just came across this while looking for something else.

:)
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
66. hey check this Ray Mcgovern video out......
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 05:25 PM by wildbilln864
link

Near the end he says, "We offered a treaty to the Israelis in 1967. The Israelis said thanks but no thanks. Why? Because treaties require internationally recognized boundaries. The Israelis had just taken over the west bank and Gazza and didn't want to hear anything about defining international boundaries and didn't want to assume the mutual obligations that a treaty partner has to inform the other if they're going to take off and bomb some other country."

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Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:54 PM
Original message
Hillary, My Un-Candidate
That cuts it for me. You can't mischaracterize or backpedal now. Clinton's unmistakable, unconditional, unilateral endorsement of Israeli politics has just lost her one heretofore undecided voter.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well put, Raejeanowl.
A wind such as that will blow the undecideds off the fence.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
24. who is your candidate and what is their position on Israel?
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. I think if she thought she could win by supporting Bush unconditionally, she'd do that too.
But you'd think a normal person would have at least some differences.

Nothing Sharon did(who was Israeli p.m at the time of the speech) concerned her at all?
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Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hillary, My Un-Candidate
Edited on Sun Sep-23-07 03:56 PM by Raejeanowl
Sorry-duplicate
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Watch it now
All these truths re: Clinton/Israel will bring forth the "anti-Semite" calls from the neo-Zions any minute now.

I can hear them warming up and emailing each other already...
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Stop AIPAC now!
Ari Berman. AIPAC's Hold The Nation: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060814/aipacs_hold /

Kathleen Christison & Bill Christison (former CIA analysts), The Power of the Israel Lobby: Its Origins and Growth, CounterPunch, June 16, 2006: http://www.counterpunch.com/christison06162006.html

Frank, Joshua. "Entrenched Hypocrisy: Hillary Clinton, AIPAC and Iran", Dissident Voice, January 3, 2006: http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan06/Frank03.htm

Rob Lipton. AIPAC, Congress and the US Peace movement, MuzzleWatch blog (Jewish Voice for Peace): http://www.muzzlewatch.com/?p=170 /

George Soros. On Israel, America and AIPAC. New York Review of Books. April 12 2007: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20030

Grant Smith. Is It Time To Rein in AIPAC?: http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/15521/i...


TC
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Another
this is fucking insanity. They get away with it because americans are largely unaware of the Israel lobby and the fact that it does not represent all of Israel. At all! Much like our neocons do not represent us!

:grr:



http://www.stopaipac.org/
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That, I see, as the problem exactly
Likud is the minority right wing party in Israel. The neo-cons have the 25% base in the U.S. They have hijacked both countries and anyone who suggests that is improper gets slimed as being 'anti-semitic'

Nice racket.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. Exactly.
I know PLENTY of Israeli citizens who want peace with their neighbors. Likud's neo-cons have the American neo-cons from both Parties backing their every war-mongering move.

Iran is up next!

TC


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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. Don't just kvetch. Organize! www.StopAIPAC.org
No lobby for war can withstand the will of the people for peace.
www.StopAIPAC.org

People are scared in the US, to say 'wrong is wrong,' because the pro-Israeli lobby is powerful.
Well, so what? For goodness sake, this is God's world! We live in a moral universe. The apartheid govt. was very powerful, but today it no longer exists.-
Desmond Tutu, Nobel
Peace Prize Winner
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's a shame that our politicians don't
approach I/P with more open minds and a fairer stance, but if she's the candidate, I'll be voting for her.
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Niccolo_Macchiavelli Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Hey great, the next pres will also continue
this wise and peaceful approach. I'm really looking forward to a democratic US-President. There will be peace in Middle east.

(i don't need that sarcasm tag, do i?)
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. with this crowd you do
and if the hill crowd gets their way be prepared for 4 or even 8 more years of the neo-con NWO agenda.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. Democratic Party is fundamentally committed to the security of our ally Israel
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. and opposed to human rights for Palestinians. which will bring no security for Israel.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
43. Apparently, tons of other Arabs are equally opposed (or did I miss that offer
of land by Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Jordan (HAHA! Jordanians EXPELLED the Palestinians!), Syria, etc., etc.?)
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. only the Israeli military expelled Palestinians from their homes
The other nations have not treated them well, but they came as refugees. (Much to the delight of the US and Israel)

In Palestine they were home, until the campaign of ethnic cleansing began in 1948.

I don't know why people somehow excuse Israeli policies of dispossession by pointing out other nations not treating the refugees well.

Many times refugees from conflicts are not treated well... we saw that in WWII, and it was tragic.

Are you trying to say that Palestinians are just not worthy of human rights?
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
64. Speak for yourself.
Our ally?

Please.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. Sorry Hillary...you don't speak for me.
I'm in favor of letting Israel fend for themselves.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. I think it worth noting that this political speech is from March '02 (as is also cited by OP)
The 6 months after the hijackings and crashes of the planes were almost surreal. Placing this in the time context might be a good exercise.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
54. She has gone further to the right on this issue since then, that's true.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. Her remarks shows her complete solidarity with the likes of Arial Sharon/Olmert, the right-wing of
Israel.

Nothing about human rights of Palestinians (that's for progressive people)
Nothing about International law. (what kind of person do you suppose her to be? who needs international law when you have a vast military and nuclear weapons?)
Nothing about ending occupation. (why should Israel end occupation? The US will support them FOREVER)
Nothing about the suffering of Palestinian children at the hands of the IDF, and the hundreds of children who have been killed in the last several years, or those held in Israeli prisons. (what lobby group do such children have in the US does Hillary have to worry about?)


www.stopAIPAC.org
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
57. Those things weren't mentioned because
The 92nd Street Y is a JEWISH organization. Though their programs are pretty awesome and many people take classes or participate there, this is a YMHA (Hebrew Association), not a ymCa, so her comments about standing with Israel were directed toward her audience.

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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Many Jews want to see fairness brought to US policy in the Middle East,
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. I'm sure they do...
I was just answering why she most likely didn't address the other "peoples" and/or causes that you suggested she mention.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Sorry, you are not permitted to make
ugly and false accusations about the dem candidates at DU. Your hate on for Hillary (someone I don't support for President) has really gone over the top now.

Calling HRC a racist is revolting.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Hillary is a public figure who opposes human rights for Palestinians
that is revolting.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. it is ugly. It is not false.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. This was yonks ago - Arafat is dead now, and a lot has changed
For the rest, I'll just say that it depends what 'supporting Israel' means. In my view, the best way to support Israel is to encourage all sides to negotiate for peace. One of the worst ways is to try to egg Israel on to fight Iran, as Cheney may have been doing.

The world would be safer with *any* Dem as president, as compared with Bush and Cheney. I just hope the world can survive the next 16 months.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
48. she promises, time and time again, to oppose human rights. I take her at her word.
She supported the attack against Iraq.
I take her at her word.


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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
29. An important book to check out (NPR discussed it last week):
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 11:26 AM by polichick

<>

The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy (Hardcover)
by John J. Mearsheimer (Author), Stephen M. Walt (Author)


From Publishers Weekly

Starred Review. Expanding on their notorious 2006 article in the London Review of Books, the authors increase the megatonnage of their explosive claims about the malign influence of the pro-Israel lobby on the U.S. government. Mearsheimer and Walt, political scientists at the University of Chicago and Harvard, respectively, survey a wide coalition of pro-Israel groups and individuals, including American Jewish organizations and political donors, Christian fundamentalists, neo-con officials in the executive branch, media pundits who smear critics of Israel as anti-Semites and the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, which they characterize as having an almost unchallenged hold on Congress. This lobby, they contend, has pressured the U.S. government into Middle East policies that are strategically and morally unjustifiable: lavish financial subsidies for Israel despite its occupation of Palestinian territories; needless American confrontations with Israel's foes Syria and Iran; uncritical support of Israel's 2006 bombing of Lebanon, which violated the laws of war; and the Iraq war, which almost certainly would not have occurred had been absent. The authors disavow conspiracy mongering, noting that the lobby's activities constitute legitimate, if misguided, interest-group politics, as American as apple pie. Considering the authors' academic credentials and the careful reasoning and meticulous documentation with which they support their claims, the book is bound to rekindle the controversy. (Sept.)
Copyright Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.


Book Description (Amazon.com)

The Israel Lobby, by John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen M. Walt of Harvards John F. Kennedy School of Government, was one of the most controversial articles in recent memory. Originally published in the London Review of Books in March 2006, it provoked both howls of outrage and cheers of gratitude for challenging what had been a taboo issue in America: the impact of the Israel lobby on U.S. foreign policy.

Now in a work of major importance, Mearsheimer and Walt deepen and expand their argument and confront recent developments in Lebanon and Iran. They describe the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the United States provides to Israel and argues that this support cannot be fully explained on either strategic or moral grounds. This exceptional relationship is due largely to the political influence of a loose coalition of individuals and organizations that actively work to shape U.S. foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction. Mearsheimer and Walt provocatively contend that the lobby has a far-reaching impact on Americas posture throughout the Middle Eastin Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, and toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflictand the policies it has encouraged are in neither Americas national interest nor Israels long-term interest. The lobbys influence also affects Americas relationship with important allies and increases dangers that all states face from global jihadist terror.

Writing in The New York Review of Books, Michael Massing declared, Not since Foreign Affairs magazine published Samuel Huntingtons The Clash of Civilizations? in 1993 has an academic essay detonated with such force. The publication of The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy is certain to widen the debate and to be one of the most talked-about books of the year.


<http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/d... >

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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
32. She doesn't speak for me on this one
Its time to get back to a fair an honest foreign policy.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
40. If she believes that, she'll never succeed in making peace in the ME.
Until it's recognised that the failure of Camp David was the result of Barak being unwilling to make a decent offer to Arafat, and that the Israelis will have to go far further than he did in making concessions, no peace will be achievable.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Are you joking? Barat offered the store!
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 12:13 PM by WinkyDink
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_campdavid_2...

Yes, some argue that Arafat could not have accepted less than "Right of return", but since when has THAT been a post-war tradition?
Maybe some Jews would have liked the "Right of return" to Poland, Austria, Ukraine, Czechoslovakia, France, Germany,....
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. He didn't offer enough land to make a viable Palestinian state.

There is no way the Palestinians can accept less than that.

He also didn't offer nearly enough concessions on Jerusalem.

Israel has to accept that it will not be able to hold onto much, if any, land outside its own borders, or to maintain sole control over Jerusalem.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. the comedian offered the store? a 7-11?
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 12:27 PM by Tom Joad
you might mean Barak, and he offered disjointed Bantustans.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1113

The seemingly endless volleys of attack and retaliation in the Middle East leave many people wondering why the two sides can't reach an agreement. The answer is simple, according to numerous commentators: At the Camp David meeting in July 2000, Israel "offered extraordinary concessions" (Michael Kelly, Washington Post, 3/13/02), "far-reaching concessions" (Boston Globe, 12/30/01), "unprecedented concessions" (E.J. Dionne, Washington Post, 12/4/01). Israels "generous peace terms" (L.A. Times editorial, 3/15/02) constituted "the most far-reaching offer ever" (Chicago Tribune editorial, 6/6/01) to create a Palestinian state. In short, Camp David was "an unprecedented concession" to the Palestinians (Time, 12/25/00).

But due to "Arafat's recalcitrance" (L.A. Times editorial, 4/9/02) and "Palestinian rejectionism" (Mortimer Zuckerman, U.S. News & World Report, 3/22/02), "Arafat walked away from generous Israeli peacemaking proposals without even making a counteroffer" (Salon.com 3/8/01). Yes, Arafat "walked away without making a counteroffer" (Samuel G. Freedman, USA Today, 6/18/01). Israel "offered peace terms more generous than ever before and Arafat did not even make a counteroffer" (Chicago Sun-Times editorial, 11/10/00). In case the point isnt clear: "At Camp David, Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians an astonishingly generous peace with dignity and statehood. Arafat not only turned it down, he refused to make a counteroffer!" (Charles Krauthammer, Seattle Times, 10/16/00).

This account is one of the most tenacious myths of the conflict. Its implications are obvious: There is nothing Israel can do to make peace with its Palestinian neighbors. The Israeli armys increasingly deadly attacks, in this version, can be seen purely as self-defense against Palestinian aggression that is motivated by little more than blind hatred.

Locking in occupation

To understand what actually happened at Camp David, it's necessary to know that for many years the PLO has officially called for a two-state solution in which Israel would keep the 78 percent of the Palestine Mandate (as Britain's protectorate was called) that it has controlled since 1948, and a Palestinian state would be formed on the remaining 22 percent that Israel has occupied since the 1967 war (the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem). Israel would withdraw completely from those lands, return to the pre-1967 borders and a resolution to the problem of the Palestinian refugees who were forced to flee their homes in 1948 would be negotiated between the two sides. Then, in exchange, the Palestinians would agree to recognize Israel (PLO Declaration, 12/7/88; PLO Negotiations Department).
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
51. ................
with comments like that no wonder the Palestinians are so pissed at us.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. You should walk through the West Bank, Alyce.
If they know you are american, there is a certain "danger".

You will be offered tea/coffee/and then another cup of tea. and sweets.
Palestinians will ask about your life, and they will tell you about their life... and they will tell you they like Americans. They hate Bush.

Overwhelmingly, they do not hate americans.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. thanks Tom.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
62. WHY, Hillary?
:puke:
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
63. Um, YOU might Senator Clinton but I surely don't...
...But don't let me interrupt you mid-pander.... :eyes:
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