Talking toddler and mother removed from flight in Houston-Continental Airlines

[RamboLiberal]

You know what it's like when you fly and the flight attendant goes through the security information before take-off. Some of you pay attention and some of you don't. But what happened on a recent Continental ExpressJet flight in Houston led to a woman and her child getting thrown off the plane, and now she wants answers.

---

That's how Penland's son Garron said goodbye to a more than 11 hour delay at the Houston airport. It happened last month on board a Continental ExpressJet plane while it taxied. The one and a half year old repeated 'bye-bye, plane' all though the flight attendant's safety speech.

"As she finished, she leaned over the gentleman who was sitting next to me, and she said, 'OK, it's not funny anymore. You need to shut your baby up,'" Penland said. Penland explained Garron would likely fall asleep soon. The toddler wasn't crying or throwing a fit.

Penland told Eyewitness News, "She said, 'It doesn't matter. Regardless, I don't want to hear it.' And she said it's called baby Benadryl and (made a drinking motion.) And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to drug my child so you have a pleasant flight.'"

---

Suddenly eyewitnesses say the flight attendant announced they were returning to the gate and Penland would be removed from the plane.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5472927

Wasn't it Continental that kicked a tantrum throwing kid off a plane a few months ago? I agreed with that one but this is nuts! I have great respect for FA's. I think they're now getting underpaid and overworked and have to put up with too much crap from passengers, but then I also had one on a recent US Air Express flight recently who was a bit of a "tin god" wanting me to stow a small light purse under the seat and when I questioned it leaned over to my male coworker and inquired "are you flying with her." Geez, I didn't even give her any grief and figuring I was in a no-win stowed it though I figured it was more of a hazard under the seat then my having it on my lap. I had just done 3 other flights where I wasn't asked to stow it.

[Squatch]

1. What do you mean I can't say "bomb" on an airplane?

:shrug:

The flight attendant in this case (if it pans out to be as Penland alleges) is a monumental asshat.

[spotbird]

2. Babies babble,

they also poop their pants and some of them don't use utensils when they eat their Cheerios.

An airline that can't tolerate these characteristics shouldn't allow them on the plane in the first place.

[Sequoia]

3. Airlines must hate babies.

I remember a story years ago about a plane going to crash and the airline stewardess told the mothers to put their babies in the overhead compartments. True. Of course one baby died and the mother came up to her and told her "You told me to put my baby in the overhead and now he's dead." She said she regreteed it so but that was what they were told to do and resinged and had nightmares ever since. She also said not to wear stockings when you fly because if there's a fire on the plane they well meld with you skin.

[RamboLiberal]

8. You're remembering that story wrong

I've heard that FA speak about that accident. That was the United Airlines DC-10 that crashed at Sioux City, Iowa on landing (famous footage of the DC-10 tumbling in flames down the runway). That FA lobbies that children under 2 should be belted in like in autos not allowed to be held on laps. What the FA told the passengers to do was to put the infants at their feet as are the prescribed directions for a crash landing. Of course no parent can hold on to an infant during a crash. One infant did end up tumbling in to the overhead bin during the crash(the fuselage was upside down). A brave passenger heard it cry and reentered the burning section of plane to rescue it. I believe at least 1 infant, maybe more died because they were torn from their parents arms and couldn't be found.

And yes, it is silly for airlines to have their female FA's wear nylon stockings, in a fiery crash they will melt to the FA's (or anyone wearing them) legs. This FA I'm talking about did have her legs burned by the stockings. All FA's should in my humble opinion be in uniforms that are flame-resistant since they are charged with getting the rest of us out of a burning plane.

BTW, the FA is haunted to this day by the lap babies deaths on that plane. The FAA argues that requiring parents to buy seats for their infants would lead to more driving and dying in car accidents. Here's YouTube from "Seconds from Disaster" on that accident and lap babies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC4Q3ofz7SI

[Sequoia]

14. Thanks.

I couldn't remember where I had read that story. That's quite interesting what you relate here.


I was on a flight once from Los Angeles to Atlanta and my husband and I were seated next to a woman who had an infant also (stupid airlines). The fussy attendant came over and said "We can't have two babies here." So a girl in the seat in front of us said she hold our baby and away she went. I was shocked and told the stewardess to have the other woman take another seat but she couldn't speak English and then I said that my husband and I and the baby must all be together so she made arrangements in a huffy way to move other passengers around. Idiot airline. IDIOT!

[fudge stripe cookays]

25. It was on "When Planes Go Down"

A show on Fox back in the 90s. I saw it too.

Jan, the stewardess that happened to, has become a huge advocate of having seats for all babies/young children so they do not have to put them on the floor. She says she is still haunted by that mother.

[RamboLiberal]

27. Also on Seconds to Disaster a newer National Geographic

show. Excellent show that explains how each disaster occurred.

[Sequoia]

91. I remember that plane that flew over the ocean to Hawaii

with the top ripped off....covertible jet rides. That must've been one trip from hell.

[Tesha]

148. An Aloha Air 737, BTW. Lot's of flight time, metal fatigue. One FA lost. (NT)

[babylonsister]

4. OK, now let's hear the FA's side of the story. nt

[Madspirit]

What could possibly justify kicking a baby off a plane?...n/t

[SteelPenguin]

111. The report says the FA claims the woman threatned her

..with physical violence. Who knows.

Officially the woman was removed for threatening the FA with physical violence. I'd like to hear a third party witness though ebfore I make a judgement.

[NaturalHigh]

161. Interesting, I hadn't heard that part.

If the woman was removed for threatening the flight attendant, she could (and should) be charged with a crime.

[snappyturtle]

5. Un-fu''king believable.

I love, used to love, flying. Unfortunately, I just booked a ticket from San Antonio to Chicago so I can visit my 90 year old mother on her 91st b'day. Can't wait to see her but God I hate all the crap at the airports today....and it's all hogwash to begin with. I hope the lady in this story carries this to the hilt and gets an apology and a free ticket or two and red carpet treatment her next time out......And the flight attendant ought to be suspended to take a vacation and get a grip!

[shain from kane]

6. Maybe if his mother's milk was allowed on the plane, he would have settled down with his bottle.

(I know, I know, he was a toddler, and was, hopefully, weaned off his mother's milk. Just making a comment on homeland security matters more than this particular incident.)

[MindPilot]

7. Oh for fucks sake...

While I would be first in line for an "adults-only" airline, this is just stupid. The child was interfering with the safety lecture?! I think that PA has a volume control.

[Lance_Boyle]

9. And the mother presumably has a hand to put over the child's mouth.

Her child's right to babble incessantly ends at the point it interferes with others' rights, or in this case with the safety lecture. Cheers for the flight attendant, and how 'bout some remedial parenting lessons for the mother of the offending tike? Yes, Ms. MyKidSoSpecial, it *IS* OK to make your special darling shut up once in a while.

[RamboLiberal]

12. Yeah I'd like to hear both sides of the story

And while I'm one of those believing the safety lecture has importance, you know 90% of the passengers weren't paying any attention and most of the lecture is unneeded.

As an adult passenger I always take note of the exits, how many rows between me and each exit, read the seat back card on how to open the exits, deploy the slides, etc. Best one I saw recently was lecture was taped and broadcast to overhead screens and seatbacks.

They should throw off passengers who aren't sitting watching the lectures and don't read the seat back cards cause those are the idiots who get the rest of us killed in an accident by not knowing what to do and being jerks and trying to grab their carry-ons during an evacuation. And this has happened in accidents.

[NeedleCast]

17. Some of us passengers

who don't listen to the safety lecture and don't read the back of the seat card don't do so because we're not brand new to this whole flying metal tube thing. At this point, I can give the United Airlines saftey announcedment pretty much from memory. Of course, some people still think that turning on a cell phone while in flight will cause the immediate failure of all electronic equipment on the plane or cause the fuel to spontaniously detonate.

I've always been of the opinion that if the plane crashes there's a very good chance that it's not going to matter where the exit rows are because violent impact with the ground tends to re-arrange where the exit rows are.

And by re-arrange, I mean destroy.

[RamboLiberal]

24. Not all accidents

There have been evacuations caused by fire, engine failure, aborted takeoff where the fuselage is intact but passengers didn't get to the nearest exit and died. Also instances of the stupid fools trying to grab their carry-ons.

[NeedleCast]

29. I know, I was being a little sarcastic

and I doubt you're 100% serious about kicking people off planes who couldn't pass a pre-flight seat back card test.

People tend to panic any time something outside their normal operating parameters happens. If you're not in an exit row, it's likely you're in deep shit because having fundamental knowledge of the seat back card door opening techniques is going to mean dick-all if there are 30 panicked people between you and said door.

Of course, dying in a plane accident is about the same as being eaten by a shark, so I don't really sweat it.

[RamboLiberal]

36. Yeah I was being sarcastic too

But even for seasoned travellers I do think the seat back card reading is a good idea if you're on a new model of plane, or haven't flown that model for awhile or on a different airline. Even the same type of plane but different airline or model can be configured a bit differently. I think the most important thing is know the number of seat backs between you and at least two different exits just in case.

Yeah, odds are that's not the way we're going to die, but then again I'd rather not die cause I was indifferent to taking a minute to count rows or read a card.

[northzax]

90. which is why, despite having flown

20-25 times a year for each of the 32 years in my life, I still listen to the announcements. repetition is key to memory, frankly, and while I am able to recite the things as well, the more times you get the info, the more likely it will pop into your head under stress and pressure. At least that's my thought.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. throw people off the plane for 'not listening'???

so, no exeption for a passenger like me, who could probably recite the safety lecture for at least 3 airlines and do more miles and hours in the air than most senior pilots? Yeah...that makes tons of sense...

sP

[RamboLiberal]

23. Do you read the seat back cards in every plane?

That's what I think is important so you know the exits on each model, how to open the exits, etc. And yeah even though you are a seasoned traveller I think you should still get your nose out of whatever and at least show the FA's some respect during the safety lecture. I'm sure the pilots up front could recite the checklist too from memory but they still do it and in some instances where they have gotten careless and cocky on the checklist an accident or near accident has occurred cause something was set or not set correctly.

I compete in handgun competitions. I've loaded and unloaded hundreds of times. One time I got a little cocky and careless during an unload and sent a negligent discharge downrange. Thank goodness I was at least pointing it down range. That's why during competition there's a safety officer taking me through the checks.
Unload and show clear.
Hammer down.
Holster.
Range is safe.

[TransitJohn]

32. There's nothing

to READ on those seat back cards...they're all in idiot pictures that make no sense....I'd rather they had printed instructions.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. if i am on a new plane then yes, i give them a look

and i am not showing anyone disrespect by quietly working on whatever i need to be doing at the time. i am not on the phone or jabbering away and preventing other people from hearing it. but i am certainly not engrossed by the lecture.

sP

[Bonobo]

41. No good excuse for an accidental discharge. You need to be watched.

[RamboLiberal]

79. Oh Bullcrap - Just about everyone shooting has had an AD

or as many of prefer to call it an ND. If you're following safety procedure it should be down range and no problem except your own embarrassment and an Oh sh*t!. And even the best have been DQ'ed for an AD or muzzle violation. I had the ND happen my first full year shooting and haven't had once since in 9 years - so I learned my lesson. But this year alone I've seen two very skilled shooters have an AD when drawing 1911's from holster. Both rounds went safely down range. One guy actually DQ'ed himself for it. The other the SO let it go cause it was safely down range.

I guess you're perfect. At shooting. At driving. At your job. I really hope you were just being sarcastic cause if you weren't I'd say maybe you need to be watched.

[annabanana]

143. I would rather be next to a crying baby than a nervous arms expert.

[Tesha]

149. Look, what part of the lecture *DON'T* you know by the third time you hear it?

Look, what part of the lecture *DON'T* you know by the
third time you hear it:

Any time you're seated, buckle your ass in or don't complain
to our airline when turbulence plants you on the ceiling of
the plane, head first with a now-broken neck.

The seat cushions float (which we'll tell you) and also
burn in a fire, giving off hazardous fumes and killing
the passengers (which we won't tell you).

In the event of a shoe bomb going off, the oxygen masks
will drop from the ceiling and no, the bag will never
inflate.

Find your nearest exit and count the rows to it (but
we won't actually give you that last bit of *VERY GOOD*
advice 'cause it might scare you).

In the event of the the plane being delayed on the ground
for eight or more hours straight, the toilets may overflow.
Don't drink the blue liquid, even if we ran out of bottled
water five hours earlier.

Did I miss anything?

Tesha

[Ms. Toad]

230. Actually, yes

In the "won't tell you category" when the oxygen masks coming down the plane will likely also begin an immediate spiral downward in order to address the pressure problem. . . but they don't tell you that during the standard safety briefing since it would freak out the passengers. (I don't have direct knowledge of this, but during my far too frequent travels recently I was told this tidbit by a fellow passenger who either worked or still works in the industry.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Kids babbling bothers you?

Do you think it was worth inconveniencing every passenger on that plane because a kid was babbling? I don't.

I'd like to hear the flight attendant's side of this, but if it happened as it is reported here, I would be all in favor of that flight attendant looking for employment elsewhere.

[marions ghost]

42. No it's not worth

putting them off the plane.

However kids babbling DOES bother other passengers if it's loud or goes on for a long time. Parents often forget that a plane is not a playroom. I would not let a child of mine babble enough for anyone to be annoyed. Kids need to be taught to be more quiet in public places.

(This is just a general statement--we can't really know what happened here).

[krispos42]

16. Like a hand over the mouth works

Please. Kids don't have mute buttons and trying to silence them usually only makes it worse, especially with toddlers that are starting to assert their own personalities.

Throw some food or gum at the kid instead. That has a better chance of working.

[LanternWaste]

22. It's not rocket science...

It's not rocket science to tune out one noise while concentrating on another. The guy had additional options.But God forbid he be put off his game for a bit.

Seems to me to be the height of bad form as an adult can more easily control his own actions than can an adult control the actions of a toddler. But then, I've come to expect a lack of civility and accommodating others in this particular country...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. actually, it CAN be very hard to tune some out

i have hearing issues that make it VERY difficult for me to separate audio streams. Not that it matters to me in THIS situation, but it can matter to some...that is why i think, if you aren't going to pay attention, at least be quiet.

sP

[Toasterlad]

28. Look, NO ONE Hates Babies More Than I Do, But...

...it seems clear from the story, if the woman's claim is accurate, that the flight attendant was just another lil' dictator, enraged that someone was interfering with her moment of power. The kid wasn't screaming or whining. Have you ever covered a baby's mouth with your hand? Nine times out of ten, it makes a baby cry LOUDER...not to mention, it's kind of an evil thing to do to a baby, you know? Like the other poster said, the stewardess (she doesn't deserve flight attendant) presumably had some volume control. If her useless safety instructions were really that important, she should have cranked it up. Or spoke louder. Either way, she SEVERELY overreacted. And who knew FA's had the authority to turn a plane around, anyway? I would have thought that would be up to the pilot (who, in this case, should have told her to sit down and shut up).

[VP505]

40. The Captain

is the ABSOLUTE authority on the A/C, apparently he was in agreement with the FA, personally I would have told her to learn a little patience and get her ass back to work.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toasterlad]

62. Oh, I Agree

That's why I started with IF the story is accurate. In this case, we're being told that the passengers are corroborating the mother's story, so I think it's safe to assume it is.

And I'm TOTALLY stealing "precious little crotch droppings" from you. :evilgrin:

[Codeine]

63. It's awesome, isn't it?

"Jizz fruit" and "hump spawn" are also personal favorites.

[Toasterlad]

64. LMAO!

[Ikonoklast]

86. Wow.

I assume that *you* were born as a fully formed adult, and never were a child. Or if you were, you must have been a perfect little angel.

And 'those little shitbags' will be taking care of you when you are a feeble, drooling, incontinent geezer in the nursing home.

[Codeine]

93. I really *was* a very good kid.

My parents didn't believe in letting their children act like animals.

[Ikonoklast]

98. Did they believe in letting their children act

like children?

A babbling two-year old is not acting like an 'animal' He is just acting like a two-year old.

Get a grip.

[Tesha]

150. So how did you grow up to use the foul, abusive language you now use?

I'd surmise something was missing in your up-bringing.

Tesha

[Codeine]

185. I didn't say I was a good adult!

Just a good kid. I'm a foul-mouthed mouthed bastard, but only when the urge to poke the Me Generation with sharp sticks arises.

[Gemini Cat]

162. I suspect your neighbours from your childhood

might have a different opinion.

[Adsos Letter]

173. No...

...you were a very well-behaved "crotch-dropping"...be consistent .

[Codeine]

184. Hoist on my own petard!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scout]

190. apparently YOUR parents didn't teach you any manners. n/t

[Codeine]

195. To be fair

the poster was just using my own words against me. I can't fault a person for doing that.

[nonconformist]

209. Actually, I was being sarcastic

As in "you wouldn't be here if your parents had the same attitude about children as you do, so what a shame, in your opinion, that you were born too".

[Midlodemocrat]

181. .

:applause:

My standard reply to anyone with a kid hating fetish.

[Madspirit]

114. Toddlers are Babies

...and I rather be in a roomful of them than in a room for one second with you. Scary-assed person.
Jesus fucking wept...fascist moments on DU. I really doubt your parents could get a toddler to quit talking. Toddlers are just mobile babies. LOOK IT UP ON A CHILD DEVELOPMENT SITE. If the sounds of life get you this bent, I suggest an icepick to the eardrum. You and everyone around your curmudgeonly ways, will be much much happier.
Lee

[Clark2008]

101. You hate babies?

Do you eat puppies, too?

I understand not wanting children, but how could you "hate" an innocent baby?

BTW, I have the best babies in the world. My son traveled a lot with me as a toddler and never gave anyone, including me, any grief. He was too fascinated by it all. My daughter, even at one month, is showing signs of not being a screamer, either. Maybe I've had it too easy - but they've never really annoyed me.

[Toasterlad]

103. Just Between Me and You, It's Mostly Hyperbole.

But in general, I don't care for children. Which is the best reason I'm not a father.

[orleans]

140. i want to know if the FA gave her little speech all over again once

the mother and kid were safely kicked off the plane.

then i want to know if everyone had to take a goddamn quiz so the FA could be sure they were listening to her.

[yardwork]

43. You've obviously never been responsible for a two year old.

[Lance_Boyle]

53. Actually, I have been.

And I knew how to make said two year old shut up when appropriate. It's not rocket surgery.

[yardwork]

54. Nice.

[SayWhatYo]

94. I tell them that the boogeyman is going to eat them...

[Clark2008]

100. Maybe so, but putting your hand over their mouths doesn't work.

The way I always did it was to whisper to my son. He'd have to shut up so he could hear me. It worked. Works with my newborn when she's screaming, too. At those young ages, they actually want to hear their mother's voice, unlike teenagers. :)

[Clark2008]

74. I can tell you don't have children if you think that would actually work.

:rofl:

[gollygee]

92. You need to learn about developmental stages of children

toddlers don't understand "shut up". And ALL toddlers babble. It doesn't mean this toddler was a bad kid or this mom was a bad mom.

[Madspirit]

110. Toddlers ARE Babies.

Jesus fucking wept. If the sounds of life get you down that much, perhaps a icepick to the eardrum would help...or some earplugs.
Lee

[bread_and_roses]

144. You want the baby "shut up" by stifling him with a hand? Unbelievable

Even given the child-hating I've seen on DU, this about takes the cake. How about educating yourself about stages of child development before handing out advice to parents? Babies, by the way, don't yet have much concept of other's "rights." Your solution - aside from being ridiculous - how much force do you think it would take to actually muffle an eighteen month old child? - would be a pretty sure prescription for ending up with a crying baby - a sound far more disturbing than a harmless "babble."

Nothing more demonstrates what a child-hating culture we are than the attitude of so many adults that they must never, under any circumstances (even in a McDonalds) be inconvenienced in the slightest fashon by infants and small children. The heritage of English and German child-hating child-rearing practices, and the Puritans, who thought it OK to whip infants under twelve months. No wonder we allow so many of our children to go hungry and without health care here, in the richest country in the wolrd.

[LostinVA]

31. My sentiments exactly -- everything you said

[zbdent]

44. I always seem to be flying

Screamin' Baby Airlines ...

[Gemini Cat]

156. That's because flying hurts their ears.

I'd yell too, if I didn't understand why my ears were hurting.

[Codeine]

197. Perhaps putting them in that situation

is inappropriate, then. There are very few situations where a baby "needs" to be on a plane, after all.

[gollygee]

219. People who are hypersensitive don't "need" to be on a plane either

And families sometimes have to travel.

[Gemini Cat]

226. Agree

Especially when they have such low opinions of the next generation.

[NeedleCast]

10. Flight attendants seem to be losing their minds

Last Saturday I'm on a commuter jet flying from D.C. to Boston. It's a 4:45 afternoon flight, about 30-40% full. Everyone gets seated. I'm paid an extra 14 bucks to move up to Economy-Plus for the extra leg-room. I'm sitting on the isle and my row of three seats is empty except for me. Guy walks up from the back of the plane, asks if anyone is sitting in the window, I say no and get up so he can go sit down in the window seat. I go back to my book. He unpacks a laptop and some paperwork.

Flight attendant rolls up and asks him "Sir, did you just move up from the back of the plane?" He says he did. She tells him he has to go back because these seats "cost more" (a whopping 14 dollars more...bear in mind that the plane is less than half full). He asks why it matters what seat he's in when there's lots of empty seats and she rolls her eyes at him and says "BECAUSE. THESE. SEATS. COST. MORE!" He (logically) reasons to her that it doesn't matter if the seats cost more because the airline is not likely to sell them in the next sixty seconds. She tells him that the airplane can't leave until he returns to his original seat.

Customer service, Rest in Peace.

[zbdent]

224. There's problems with "customer service" ... and then there's the problem that

if the attendant gets his/her ass fired for being "lax" ... just think ... "there are plenty of people who would kill to have your job" these days ...

[AspenRose]

11. More from the story

"He wasn't any louder than the adult passengers on the plane," said passenger Stacey Watts.

Watts sat just a few rows back from the Georgia mother and heard the entire conversation.

"Katie was in shock at that point," Watts explained. "You could tell. She was in row 3 and I was in row 6. She just kept saying, 'I don't know what you expect me to do. I don't know what you expect me to do.'"

I feel sorry for that mom. Adults talk during the safety presentation all the time.

I am really beginning to hate flying. And yes, I'm paranoid: My son is 2.5 and I'm pregnant with #2. I keep wondering when something like this is going to happen to me.

[roody]

15. And I just sat through a 4 hour flight with babies

screaming (in delight) most of the time.

[SayWhatYo]

95. I sat through a flight full of middle school kids...

I would rather have a few loud babies than a bunch of loud obnoxious 13 year olds... but ehnn, what ya gonna do?

[gollygee]

102. I was on a train for 4 hours with 6 teenage girls loudly giggling

I'd take a toddler saying "bye bye" over and over again any day of the week. LOL

[truebrit71]

198. A good game to pass the time and withhold the urge to commit multiple murder is...

...count how many times they say 'like'....Trust me, it's like counting sheep....you'll be asleep before you, like, hit, like, Wow, a hundred....

[Fleshdancer]

19. I witnessed a flight attendant getting on her power kick not too long ago

First of all, this story is absolutely ridiculous and I hope the flight attendant gets fired. Kicking a mom and her kid off the plane because mom doesn't want to drug her chatty kid? Insane. Out of all the horror stories of kids on flights, do we really need to punish the kids who aren't screaming and kicking?

I was on a flight one evening from LAX to Austin and one of the flight attendants got angry at the guy sitting across the aisle from me. I'm not sure what set her off exactly but it was weird to watch her threaten to tell the captain that a passenger was giving her problems. Never once did he raise his voice or say anything offensive and to be honest, he was much nicer than I would have been. After 10 minutes of her continuously coming back to start arguing with him again, he finally had enough and politely asked for her name so that he could file a report. This REALLY set her off. When the plane landed, I counted 8 police officers waiting at the gate.

The poor guy was traveling with a friend who was asleep in the seat in front of me during the flight and missed the drama. I filled him in on what I witnessed and gave him my business card in case his friend's lawyer needed to call me. I never got the call so I hope the charges were dropped.

Over the past several years I've noticed a dramatic difference in the attitude of flight attendants on American carriers. Unless I'm flying Southwest, many of them just aren't very hospitable anymore.

[AspenRose]

21. Thank you

"Out of all the horror stories of kids on flights, do we really need to punish the kids who AREN'T screaming and kicking?"

Agreed. If this story is accurate, she was out of line, especially with the Benadryl comment. She needs to find another line of work.

[DemoTex]

20. Returning to the gate was not the FA's decision. It was the captain's.

My guess is that the captain will be doing a rug dance in the chief pilot's office.

[LostinVA]

35. But, as per other passengers' reports, she lied to the pilot

She said the mother threatened her, so the pilot went back to the terminal. Other passengers say this is totally false.

[AspenRose]

38. Another good reason why her ass should be fired.

eom

[MindPilot]

45. Question for Capt D. Tex

If the FA lied to the Captain, and based on that the fight returned to the gate, given all the costs, hazards, administrative overhead and ripple effect of the delay that entailed, it would possibly rise to a criminal act on the part of the FA?

Does the Captain have an obligation to go back and access the situation for himself, maybe send the 1st officer back or will he take the FA at their word?

[DemoTex]

50. Generally, the cockpit crew takes the FAs at their word. Why would you not?

And, generally, if the FAs want to return to the gate for good reason, the captain returns to the gate. However, if the FA lies to the captain and the operation is interrupted (return to gate, divert in flight, declare an emergency, etc.), then serious issues regarding that FA's continued employment arise.

With respect to civil or criminal charges, I think the "no blood, no foul" principle probably applies here. The last thing an airline wants to do is generate publicity over an unsavory incident. In fact, that is why I said the captain on that flight probably got to dance on the chief pilot's rug. Not because of returning to the gate, per se (lied to or not by the FA), but the fact the incident made the news.

[MindPilot]

52. Thanks. I was just curious if there is a formal procedure

or if those kinds of incidents are handled under "pilot's discretion".

[LostinVA]

51. OOO -- good point

[SoCalDem]

26. Yikes.. When I flew with my (then) toddler son, the attendants took turns

playing with him, and letting him "help" them hand out sodas.. They took him all over the plane with them, and then let him crash on some empty seats.. even GAVE him a Delta blankie to take home with him, along with a small plane, wings and playing cards..

Aaaah, to fly again circa 1975 .....

[seabeyond]

76. when i had babies i could not get attendants to leave us alone. they

were all interacting and entertaining my babies, very sympathitic to little ones being thrown into that environment and i dont recall one time my children threw fits or caused any kinds of trouble. the attendants were just nice.....

[SoCalDem]

78. and when we flew with our little baby poodle, they took her out of the carrier

played with her in the aisles and fed her left over breakfast sausages.. our dog LOVED to fly with us.. :)

[fudge stripe cookays]

30. Dayum.

I'm not a kid person, but this sounds out of line.

I had to chuckle during one of my recent flights on American-- I wanna say it was San Diego to Dallas.

They went through the whole spiel with the seat belts and everything and got to the part with the masks when the male flight attendant says, "If you are seated next to a small child...I'm sorry."

I laughed my ass off.

[WolverineDG]

67. "If you are seated next to a child,"

"or someone who acts just like one...." circa 1989 on Southwest. :rofl:

I'd rather listen to a kid babbling "Bye bye plane" repeatedly than one screaming his/her lungs out & destroying my eardrums. BTW most kids scream because their ear tubes are blocked, so I can tolerate & sympathize with that.

dg

[Forkboy]

33. Flight attendants are cranky because they traded their lives away for free airfare to Barbados.

:yoiks:

[Ilsa]

39. FA claimed the mother threatened her. The other passengers say it's a lie.

Sounds like the FA had a bad night's sleep or a hangover and wanted someone to take to task over anything. The passengers are taking the mom's side on this.

[Rosemary2205]

46. Fight attendants gone wild. I've been on the receiving end.

Some of you already know I'm in a power wheelchair.

First off, don't ask me why but I'm on the no fly list - yes, it's really me and not a name like mine - and they've admitted it was a mistake but so far have not fixed it. So I whenever I have to fly, which isn't often, I have to jump through a lot of hoops that usually involves my Congressman.

So, appearantly it's not hard enough to fly alone in a power wheelchair and on the no fly list. The last time I flew, about 6 months ago, I had one of those allergy "nasal drip down the back of my throat choking fits" that turned into big ol' eyes watering sneezing fit. I carry several big men's hankerchiefs everywhere I go and had my face buried in one when I felt someone practically beating on the side of my arm. I try to see who, though watery eyes, and there is a very angry flight attendant wagging a finger in my face saying I don't know what. Those of you with allergies know when one of those suckers gets started you are completely non communicative until it passes. Mine last anywhere from 3-10 minutes and then I'm fine.

So the woman leaves, my fit passes and I'm kinda catching my breath. I look out the window and realize we are back at the gate. The flight attendant comes up and angrily asks where my carry ons are, I stammer out "in the overhead" and ask why. A man sitting nearby says "you have no right to put her off the plane". And that's when I realize I'm being ejected.

For sneezing?

Sure enough the police came ONTO the plane to remove me. And just outside the plane I was told I supposedly threatened the Flight attendant. I was very fortunate that they got the powers that be to hold the plane just long enough to talk to passengers sitting right by me -- who ALL told the same story of what happened. They did make me wait for the next flight -- though they were nice enough to keep my luggage on that plane and make it more difficult for me to be reunited with it.

The flight attendant ended up being suspended for 2 weeks without pay and required to go through diversity training. I never did find out why the hell she did that to me.

[fudge stripe cookays]

69. wtf???!!

Rosemary, that's outrageous.

Did you have any other legal recourse? I hate trivial legal crap, but I would have sued the pants off them. With all you're dealing with already, that had to suck!!

:hug:

[Toasterlad]

104. I Really Agree With Fudge Stripe Cookays.

Also, I love the fact that the world I live in makes the above sentence possible.

[fudge stripe cookays]

116. Well ya know...

everyone enjoys my chocolatey goodness. :D

[bdamomma]

47. young mothers and babies are becoming a target.

unbelieveable

[NeedleCast]

49. and sometimes, they should be

because there are plenty of parents out there who are wholey unconcerned with the comfort of the people around them. I went to see "300" in a theater not long ago, and so did a couple and their infant. I was aware of their presence because said infant would start crying every time something loud happened (so lets say, about 50% of the movie). Finally an usher had to come in and ask them to take the child out.

A little common sense and awareness would go a long way towards preventing this sort of thing.

[JCMach1]

55. deal with it! You were a bratty kid once so don't even

get me started...

[Codeine]

59. Baloney.

When most of us were children our parents actually employed a little technique called "parenting" with their kids; this kept us from being "bratty kids." Most young people today are horrible little savages with no self-control at all, and their parents seem to like it that way.

Sometimes I think that many of today's parents are simply miserable and use their children to punish the rest of us, to make us as unhappy and miserable as they are.

[JCMach1]

68. Like all memories about the 'good 'ole days'

can you say nostalgic amnesia?... kids are kids

[Codeine]

70. Not the "good old days"

but just a handful of years ago. Kids weren't as fat, as stupid, or as ill-mannered as they are now. I work with the public and their dear little offspring daily and I've watched the transformation. If I had behaved even once in the fashion that many kids behave constantly today I'd still be in trouble!

[JCMach1]

73. selective memory is a beautiful thing...

[Toasterlad]

117. People Who Let Children Behave Abominably Always Refuse to Believe There's an Alternative.

I have three sisters. One of them raised her children to be polite and respectful by taking them to task whenever they did something inappropriate. Another raised her child to be an anal little worry-wart by always correcting his behavior if it didn't conform to her way of thinking (which was seldom). And the third raised her children to be free to do whatever they pleased, without regard for the circumstances and the people around them.

The first sister's children would never THINK of acting up in a public place. The second's child would be too afraid to. And the third sister's children would treat any public place as if it were their own living room. While I love all my sisters and all my nieces and nephews, I do not rate their behavior equally, or treat them all the same.

When you choose to become a parent, you have an obligation to PARENT your child. That means teaching the child how to interact politely with others, and to be conscious of the impact they have on their surroundings. It does NOT give you a reason to expect other people to put up with the abominable behavior of your children, or to have patience with your completely half-assed approach to parenting.

If you are too lazy, selfish, or stupid to BE a parent, don't inflict children on the world.

[seabeyond]

119. and they should learn and act it all by 18 months old too, by gosh....

[Toasterlad]

120. Oh, Please. I'm Not Talking About BABIES Here

Read my other posts. I'm completely on the child's side in the OP. However, this thread seems to have evolved into one of those "Children are God's gifts to the world, and any attempt to get them to behave is child abuse!" threads.

A parent with a crying, whining baby should take the baby OUT of a movie or a restaurant where other people are trying to have a good time. Obviously, a parent can't do that on a plane. I ONLY blame a parent for their child's lack of behavior if the parent has an option but refuses to utilize it.

[seabeyond]

122. for me the thread is more a tantrum from adults in line with the very two

year olds they criticize.

i have never seen so many adults go after childrens behavior in such emotionally immature ways.

i didnt see the swarms of out of control children that so many on this board profess to the decade i was without children as an adult. i dont see the swarms of children out of control for the decade i have children. i have not had problems with my children in public, or private for the most part. nor my kids friends. i wonder about all these "adults" unable to adjust reasonably to other bodies around them

it is like listening to my two brothers harp on the rude, inhospitable people taking over our world at every turn. i am amazed how they run into every rude, inconsiderate person, yet continually while i am out and about i interact with generous, fun, nice, respectful, kind people all over the place.

i tend to wonder if it has more to do with the individuals and how they live in their world, what they want their world to be and what they create, than the swarms of rude, out of control, non parented, kids today.

[Toasterlad]

123. Or Maybe You Just Have a Higher Tolerance For It

Many "pro-tantrum" people on this thread seem to feel that a child screaming or crying or whining is sweet, sweet music, and don't understand how anyone could have a problem with it. I'm reminded of the thread a few weeks back about the children screaming non-stop in their backyard, and the neighbor being vilified on DU because she asked their parents to have them quiet down. Many actually said that they ENJOYED listening to children screeching and shrieking at the top of their lungs for hours. People like that will apparently never understand that many of us do not find such behavior "adorable" or "precious".

Again, let me reiterate that in the case of the OP, the parent was completely in the right, and the stewardess was dead wrong. But if that baby had been screeching (NOT "babbling" as in the OP) at a restaurant, and a waitress asked the mother to take the baby outside, the mother should have been mortified that someone had to ASK her, instead of having removed the child herself.

[seabeyond]

124. tolerant. yes i am tolerant. i am capable of understanding there are all

kinds of reasons for all kinds of things. i understand that i do not have the right to control all people that have the audacity to be a part of my environment. but then i also demand that others dont have the right to dictate to me either.

i am not comfortable with whining, not even all the whining i am hearing on this thread from a bunch of adults. whining from adults pierces my brains 10x that of whining children

the kids in back yard screaming in the middle of the day in play?

shut the fuckin windows. i have neighbors working on cars and motorcycles,.... mowing lawns and all kinds of other noises going on. if i am really bothered i know my power is in controling my world and i shut the fucking window. but i am not going to DEMAND that the world accomodates me.

i am watching a world of children behaving better than what i am seeing adults behaving on all kinds of levels. and it is the adults that are teaching the children. so when a child does anything childlike, and these adults that are just sure a child should not be childish reacts in an ugly or nasty way, .... what did that mature adult teach that child

i allow my oldest to listen to these threads. firstly so he sees where people are bothered so he can be respectful and out of their way, well mannered. but also see the adults that have so little patience with children today so he can learn that though they are not behaving well, it behooves him in this house, his own well being and lesson in life, to understand these people are creating a nasty world for them to live in,.... and not step into that trap

i teach my kids that maybe the adult that cuts in line or is rude to them or whatever, may be having a bad day, or a sad day, .... and to give them kindsness and love. and watch when giving this person understanding how not only are you lighting up their world, we give ourselves a little dose of joy

so to the screaming kids or whining kids or crying kids, i give them compassion. what i recieve is no more of that negative force that everyone is so bitching about, in a very positive way for all of us.

it really isnt very hard.

[Toasterlad]

125. It Must Be Very Nice to Be You, St. Seabeyond.

I am glad that you have so much empathy for the world, and never get annoyed or angry at others, except for adults who are mean to children. Since you are raising your eldest child to be respectful of others though, I can't help but wonder why you don't think everybody else should be doing the same thing? Because that's pretty much all the whiny adults on this thread are asking of parents.

[seabeyond]

127. firstly i am not angry at the adults, it is a discussion, and i disagree

secondly, yes i am empathetic, where i shine. because if you will take note in my last post, i am teaching my children to be empathetic with the very adult that is angry with them. yes,... i do enjoy being me. but then i equally hope that you enjoy being you and with all others. because, that is a wonderful way to create and live life. it also gives a lot to not only me, (being selfish) but to so many others.

you suggest that there is actually a single person on this board that would suggest it is ok to teach children to be disrespectful to others. i do not think you will find a single person that feels that way. i suggest that maybe you are interpreting the argument incorrectly. i cannot make you understand what i am saying. all i can do is put it out there. it is yours to make it what it is. if a person choses this to be a battle, them against us, i am sure you will see that i am saying it is ok for children to be disrespectful. also i think there may be a question of respect. what some seem to be terribly offended by as disrespectful, many of us are seeing that it is not a matter of being disrespectful, but of simply being and the others so intolerant they dont want to allow it. again, all in interpretation

btw... lots of sarcasm in you post to me. one of the big things people are on kids butts about is the sarcasm they use. yet... here your parent didn't knock it out of you. here you are as an adult using the very sarcasm that is qualifying for children to be disrespectful and out of control, as if that is really a mature, adult way of interacting with one another.

finally, lets remember what this thread is about. a very little child saying the words bye bye plane. not loud. not offensively, yes repetitively. children that age are repetitive. cant knock it out of them. they will grow out of it.

that is what this thread is about

that is what i am discussing. the people on this board that have issues with this child saying those words more than a couple times.



.

[Toasterlad]

130. LOL. I AM Sorry for the Sarcasm, But the Parents DID Fail to Knock it Out of Me

Actually, they're both pretty damn sarcastic themselves, the bastards. That's probably why our family learned to embrace it and appreciate it. I ENJOY sarcasm in others (ESPECIALLY in children - it ALWAYS cracks me up) and would never try to encourage its absence. But I hope you believe me when I tell you that it was NOT my intention to belittle you; only to make a point. I try to use my sarcasm for good, not evil. O8)

I think the heart of our disagreement IS that we have different ideas about what's respectable behavior from children. I certainly DON'T believe that anyone is deliberately teaching their children to be disrespectful (outside of the Fred Phelps clan or members of the KKK - and I trust we have none of their number among us); it is the absence of teaching them to be respectful that I see. I hope you can see the difference. I actually think it's admirable that you have a higher tolerance for, let's call it "childhood willfulness" than many others. I DO think that children have to be allowed to be children. However, if a child is being disruptive in a public place like a restaurant or a movie, a place where others are trying to enjoy themselves, I don't think it's unfair that a parent take them outside until they settle down. Similarly, if children are screeching non-stop in the backyard, I don't think it's unreasonable for a parent to tell them to keep it down. I fortunately don't have much of a problem with noise in my neighborhood, but I HAVE heard children screeching THROUGH my closed windows...that's a sound that really penetrates. Being respectful of neighbors who might be trying to sleep, or might be ill, or just plain old don't like screeching is a GOOD thing for parents to be teaching their children, I think.

Lastly, I completely agree with your opinion regarding the OP; that was not a case of a child being obnoxious in a situation where a parent could do something about it. I think most people would tend to agree; the nature of the thread just provided an outlet for people to complain about noisy children on airplanes. I think most of us are in agreement that the woman on the plane was treated unfairly.

[seabeyond]

131. and being empathetic, i can understand that in some families they

use it as a means of communication. some families use teasing. i believe that it is a form of belittling ergo being disrespectful, and much of the teasing is really saying a hurtful truth and then saying, teasing. so not allowed to be hurt. we dont have either of that in my immediate family. we tend to say it like it is, and nothing is personal or off limits. ooooooosh, that is a tough one for a lot of people, especially when i go to in laws house.

having said that, i can appreciate how you all have used it as a power of good. and i am not bothered that you chose sarcasm, it was simply a point i was making. higher in all things, even sarcasm and teasing. and i would certainly not want, nor expect all to live life like i see it and live it. would be pretty boring.

i just think sometimes we may see a child have a melt down and give to the family an out of control child, or parent not doing their job. could be that child seldom/rarely has a meltdown. could be the parent is a kick ass parent. i am a considerate driver. i work hard at it. i can do a hundred considerate acts in my driving and then once be inconsiderate out of obtuseness or rushing or just not catching it. the driver doesnt know about the hundred nice things i did. all they see is how we all have road rage, or are rude or whatever. i see kids in schools thru out the school year. i spend a lot of time at schools volunteering. there are very few of these "kids" i come across. but... when there is one, i see them easily and clearly and quickly. they are in the minority, by far. i am running into a strong majority of good kids.

but.... it is important to me too to teach my children well. i see a lot of parents with that goal and intent. utopia we will not achieve.

thank you for your post. i appreciate it.

[bread_and_roses]

146. Thank you, seabeyond (n/t)

[treestar]

132. Every generation that has ever lived has said that when they got

older. These same little brats of today you speak of will be saying the same thing about the generation that follows them.

[Sanctified]

168. I disagree,

The reason it was different back then is because most parents did not take their kids out in public. Your mom was probably like mine and was cooped up in a house all day with 3 bratty kids and we did not go out in public until we were respectable citizens around 5 years old or so. Unfortunately today things are different, a lot of young families can't afford to have the mom stay at home and have dinner ready 5:00.

I remember how shocked my mom was when she was visiting while my daughter was two and we suggested going out to eat, she flat out stated "you can't take your daughter to a restaurant, she will bother the other diners." I explained that we only go to family friendly restaurants, my mom just had a blank look on her face. We ended up taking her to our favorite Vietnamese restaurant where the owners wife always stops by your table if you have kids and plays with them or helps feed them. After eating my mom stated that she wished there were places like that available to her when she was raising me.

[NeedleCast]

60. Yes, I was a bratty kid once

and my parents had the common sense and common courtesy to not take me to places where I could disrupt other people's enjoyment and, should that be unavoidable, they'd at least have enough respect for others to remove from such a place if were at all possible.

Since you're one of the "deal with it" crowd though, I'll just stop by your place later on and make a nuisance of myself. WHen you ask me to stop, I'll tell you that you should "just deal with."

[JCMach1]

72. Of course you parent, but there is a contingent of people (that is a big part of the US population)

that HATES kids... They spout the BS lies about family values and 'child friendly'..., but I challenge anyone who has children to live in a society for any length of time that actually loves their children and then go back to the States and notice the differences...

[NeedleCast]

82. I don't parent

because I don't have children, nor do I want them. I don't hate them either. However, if I had kids I wouldn't subject others to their tantrums if I could avoid it. On a plane, it doesn't bother me all that much really, I mean come on, where they going to go? Grandma lives in a diffrent states, wants to see the grandkids, gotta fly. While there may be a contingent of child-haters out there, there's also a contingent of parents who don't give a rats ass that their kids are bugging the fuck out of other people.

[JCMach1]

89. Not accusing you, but seriously though, if you substituted

the word child for any ethic group in some of the things people say here on DU, you will see anti-child attitude...

[treestar]

134. Are you sure?

Maybe you don't remember.

Not every parent can be perfect all the time.

[seabeyond]

80. i think some of these "adults" have fine tuned "bratty" to fit about anything

a child may do or say now a days. seems to me more and more, if a child dares to speak, regardless of the volume it is the kid being a brat. how dare a child make a noise. if a child dare to be in a funky or poor mood, how out of control they are. while we no longer allow adults to have much leeway or grace in being, we seem to have decided that children must not only not be heard but are offensive to even be seen

[JCMach1]

84. exactly... American society tries to prohibit kids from being kids

I am talking about in a positive way... I will give you an example... The malls here in the UAE are thought of in very much the same way as the old markets, Kasbahs and bizarres. Kids can do things here that would have security calling the cops in the states.

It is quite common to see small kids kicking a small ball around. Parents bring little riding toys for their kids to play on as people sit, talk, walk...

Oh yeah, and kids can talk, play, have fun without adults screaming at them to shut up because they are 'busy' shopping.

Maybe if we let our kids be kids more, they wouldn't freak out in high stress situations such as planes, etc.

Don't even get me started on American Education and the focus in early years on behavior modification...

[seabeyond]

87. further the adults dissing these kids sound more like the bratty out of control kid

than the kid they talk about. maybe it would have behooved all of us if THEIR parents had reigned in the controls so we dont have to deal with their bratty behavior in adult form. bah hahhaa

tell ya.

[assclown_bush]

207. I agree with you whole~heartedly. n/t

[baldguy]

48. By any measure of normal human behavior, children are clinically insane.

They should be treated accordingly.

:P

[Phoonzang]

56. Flame if you want but..

Good. I'm glad they threw the kid off. I'm tired of having EVERY fucking flight I take ruined by babbling toddlers and screaming babies. They either need to do something about them or make a babies-only section.

[Codeine]

61. Fuckin-A right!

:applause: :applause:

[Toasterlad]

66. Normally, I'd Be More Sympathetic to Your View

However, in this case, it doesn't seem like the baby was bothering anyone EXCEPT for the stewardess, who was just pissed because the baby wasn't gazing up at her in awe while she talked. And I can guarantee that the passengers were MUCH more annoyed at the delay of having the plane return to the gate, unload the kid, go back to the runway and resume waiting at the tail end of the takeoff list. We're talking about a delay of at LEAST 45 minutes because one whiny a-hole didn't get enough attention. That's a GREAT reason to have all those people miss their connecting flights.

It's ABSOLUTELY fucking annoying to have a whining, crying baby on a plane, but it's hard to blame the parents in that situation. What are they supposed to do? They, presumably, have to fly. They can't put their baby in the luggage compartment. They can't take the baby "outside" when it gets fussy. I almost never sympathize with parents about ANYTHING (hey, it was YOUR decision to have the kid!) but I DO feel sorry for them on planes.

Restaurants and movies, though? Get your little fucker OUT! :evilgrin:

[BlooInBloo]

112. It saves on typing time when somebody else perfectly expresses ome's views. :)

[Phoonzang]

165. I understand perfectly that

Parents can't really do anything about screaming babies...I still hate it. Especially in an enclosed space. How can I explain it...it's like someone jamming a steak knife in my ear...

Toddlers are a different story, yes. They don't bother me nearly as much as the babies, but still it gets old after a while. Depending on how long the flight was, it was most certainly pointless and more annoying to turn the flight around. They have to travel, I understand this. That's why I REALLY REALLY want them to consider a children's section on the plane. Flights and the inevitable delays are miserable enough without extra stress.

[goodgd_yall]

71. Wear earplugs

You can do something about it; but a child is just being a child.

[SayWhatYo]

96. but but why can child be a child, but an asshole can't be an asshole?

That is like so totally not fair.

[Guaranteed]

118. That's kind of zen.

I think the best comment on the thread.

[Madspirit]

107. Jesus Fucking Wept

What a fascist. Wear earplugs if the sounds of life make you discriminate against tiny people. Fucking unreal man.
Lee

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

135. Babbling toddlers are cute - screaming is one thing but

babbling is sweet - I can't imagine being bothered by it.

As for screaming infants, I feel bad for the infant. It usually subsides in a reasonable amount of time. If not, I'd feel really bad for that kid - to be stuck on a plane in whatever pain the baby is in would be awful for the kid - and I'm sure the parents would be doing whatever they could, so it wouldn't be due to some failure at discipline.

The only solution would be never let infants fly, which doesn't seem very practical.

If this becomes such a problem, the airlines could contemplate no-child flights, I suppose. There might be a market for that. I don't think people with kids would be bothered - they'd probably rather be on a flight with others who aren't going to freak out if their infant acts like an infant.

[Cobalt Violet]

142. I'd rather hear fingernails on a chalkboard than a babbling toddler.

Some people just don't find it sweet at all.

[Sanctified]

170. It's a flight not a cruise ship.

I can't see how something like a flight can be ruined.

[Phoonzang]

176. Well technically...it's already ruined

seeing how your crammed in a metal tube at 40,000 ft after going through security and waiting in line.

[Midlodemocrat]

182. Does breathing bother you as well?

Unfucking real.

[Phoonzang]

183. Yeah....breathing

kid screaming in your ear...same thing.

[Midlodemocrat]

186. You guys talking about all your flights being ruined by kids

must take some amazing routes. My husband travels every single week and has for over 30 years and he could count on the fingers of one hand the times there has been a screaming baby on the plane.

The only time I've flown where there was any type of disturbance was the flight from Atlanta to San Francisco where a man died.

I'll take a crying baby anyday.

[Phoonzang]

192. Maybe I have bad luck

The last 2 flights I had weren't bad, but I fly a lot, and I swear for about 5 flights in a row I was seated by a screaming baby or a toddler. This is something earplugs and an Ipod cannot block out. The best time was when I was sprayed by...something. So maybe I'm tramautized.

[Midlodemocrat]

194. My husband always flies with lollipops.

They worked on our kids' ears and he always carries them because he says there is nothing worse than the frantic attempts by parents to quiet their screaming toddler while getting the stink eye from fellow passengers.

He just says to them. "Look, my own three always cried on ascent or descent, and these worked, would you like one?"

The looks of gratitude he gets are priceless.

[silverweb]

202. Brilliant idea!

I usually only take one round-trip flight a year for the required family pilgrimage on the other coast. It's not a treat, but it's generally tolerable.

Anyway, I think the lollipops are a brilliant idea and I'll make a point of having some with me this year, just in case they're needed!

[Midlodemocrat]

205. Just get the ones that are sealed.

That way the parents will be more willing to accept them. The Saf-T-Pops are even better for little ones.

It really is a good idea.

[silverweb]

210. Excellent advice.

Thanks!

:hi:

[seabeyond]

58. put up with too much crap from passengers... equally passengers HAVE

to put up with TOO much crap from airports, airline sec and attendants and employees too

i would say we have set ourselves up for a very combustible situation at any given time

aren't we clever people

hence one of the huge reasons i refuse to participate in the mess

[Zookeeper]

65. I had the experience of being stuck on a plane with my...

(then) 18 month old, for three hours waiting for the plane to take off. Somehow, I managed to keep him quiet and he wasn't much of a screamer, anyway. But, it left me with the impression that returning to the terminal was impossible unless the plane was on fire.

Since when is a plane turned around based on a FA's snit?

[JCMach1]

75. My worst experience on numerous international flights involved beging stuck between a drunk

retired British adult and very irate and bitchy Arab lady...


The guy reeked of alcohol and drank the whole trip. He then proceeded to move his seat during a meal and knock the lady's tray onto his lap. The ensuing argument I was caught between lasted the duration of the trip on a packed plane.

Oh, and then there was the time on another trip that passengers decided to have a cocktail party two inches in front of me as I was in an escape aisle. I was trying to sleep at the time.

[Codeine]

77. And if you tell those people to knock their shit off...

it's all good and everybody is on your side. If you tell somebody that their precious little darling should just maybe behave like a fucking human being then it's the end of the world. I wouldn't deal with a drunk asshole making my life unpleasant, so I fail to understand why I should be forced to deal with somebody's ill-behaved spunk-monkey making my life unpleasant.

[JCMach1]

81. You cannot reason with someone that drunk, or that irate...

Kids are sugarplums compared to these kind of idiots...

[SayWhatYo]

97. I agree with you, but what do you define as ill-behaved?

From the above article it doesn't sound like the child was doing anything too bad(but there only seems to be one side presented, so who knows)... If a kid is simply talking, or perhaps cries a little, then I don't think that is unreasonable... After all, kids are kids.. Although, if the kid is freaking out of control then that's another story.

[seabeyond]

83. i am thinking of all the irritating adults i have been stuck sittin next to

the old male hitting on me all the way, when i was teen and twenties, touching "accidently". the person that insisted to continue conversations to me regardless of making it clear i dont want to talk. or the adult with so much perfumes i gagged the whole trip. children are low on my list of offensive when it has come to flying compared to some of the adults.

[JCMach1]

85. give me a toddler any day compared to that...

[Zookeeper]

126. I'm much more forgiving of an unhappy toddler than...

a rude and obnoxious adult, who may chose to punch you if you call them on their bad behavior.

The level of hatred for kids on DU, by child-"free" people with selective memories, is truly astounding and sad.

[seabeyond]

129. my husband, two children and i were discussing this thread at the dinner table

just now.

first thing hubby asked, "do these people have kids"?

[JCMach1]

151. some do...

:)

[gollygee]

218. The only thing I really really hate about DU

is the level of hatred for children by some people here. It really bothers me.

[JCMach1]

88. My wife and daughters just left for their yearly trip home to the States

I remember last year. My then 7 year old had about a four hour conversation with a lady from Cypress who was sitting near us. She gave my daughter the purse she knitted while we were flying when we left the plane. My daughters love people, museums, restaurants and many other 'adult' things.

And if you do sit next to my daughter on plane, be sure to ask her what she thinks of Bush.

With her charm and brains, this girl has the ability to be the first woman president. Although I am afraid she may end up DLC as she loves money a bit too much.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. OK, everybody, how about a compromise?

The kid has to go, but the mom can stay.

[RB TexLa]

105. seems she made it clear she doesn't care if those around her have "a pleasant flight"

[Nunyabiz]

108. I dont blame them personally

I cant stand these people with their "golden child" that dont give a ratz ass about anybody around them.

[Codeine]

138. Oh, and they're all fucking "golden children," aren't they?

No parent these days can ever accept that their precious little spunk-monkey is anything other than a magnificent little angel. God-damned sickening, enabling, mush-minded crap.

[truebrit71]

188. Wow do you have kids?

What a fucked up way of looking at things...

[Codeine]

193. Why would I have kids?

Last time I looked there were an adequate number of humans already in existence and little evidence of the species not being able to propagate itself. Perhaps I've missed something? An unexpected shortage of babies worldwide?

:eyes:

[truebrit71]

199. Ah, so you can't find anyone to shag is that it?

With your attitude I don't find that hard to believe...

:eyes:

[Codeine]

201. I've done some research, and it turns out

that shagging doesn't necessarily have to end in pregnancy! Turns out a woman or man can have as much sex as they can possibly stand and not add any more children to our already over-burdened planet.

[truebrit71]

203. Ah, so you shoot blanks then?

:evilgrin:

J/K

To each their own I guess....

[Codeine]

204. NOW I do!

A little snip-snip and all possibility of an "unexpected result" vanished. That may not satisfy a person who views his or other's masculinity through the prism of reproduction, but that's never been something that interested me at all. A quick glance out the window confirms no lack of preexisting specimens of the homo sapiens species.

[Redstone]

106. I'll NEVER fly on an airline with such fucking snotty flight attendants.

Redstone

[BlooInBloo]

109. "No flight for you! One year!" - Flight Nazi.

[MrSlayer]

113. If true she should sue the shit out of them.

What a fucking asshole that FA seems to be.

[Madspirit]

115. I hope the airline gets in trouble deep...n/t

[bobthedrummer]

121. Here is another toddler story-just for comparison to the OP

"State will keep toddler from Portage case" AP via Milw. Journal-Sentinel fair use cited
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=7/12/2007&id=26304

Several of us posted about this horrifying "Portage case".

"The screaming of children in quiet Portage, Wisconsin" (started 6-22-2007)http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1161061

Just posted this for comparison and contrast, RL.

[dsc]

128. The flight attendent was nuts

but I do want to address the broader point being brought up in this thread. There are times when everyone, and everyone includes children, need to be silent. The school I used to teach at had a marvelous chorus. This chorus rehearsed 90 minutes a day plus a whole bunch of extra time just to put on a wonderful concert. They performed music than ran the gammut from Rent to classical pieces. Not one time did I get to hear one of their concerts without some child crying or screaming through one or more pieces despite the repeated requests of the chorus director to take noisy children out. It isn't the child's fault, it is the parent's fault. Not every place is child friendly. Those students in that chorus worked their asses off to produce music and succeeded admirably. They should have been permitted to have their friends, family, and teachers enjoy and appreciate it. But a few selfish parents ruined it for everyone else, including their own children who apparently didn't enjoy themselves.

[treestar]

133. A toddler saying bye-bye plane?

I'd expect the adults on the flight to be smiling in amusement.

[entanglement]

136. She should sue the airline - this is insane

[Codeine]

139. Assuming the facts are as stated,

which I do not assume. Parents lie about their children constantly, and the more egregious the behavior the more disingenuous the parents become.

[Turn CO Blue]

137. The flip side:

I work for an airline, and I will tell you that we get a few calls/letters each month from customers who want us to BAN infants from all flights! And these people are FULLY SERIOUS about it. And you wouldn't believe how rude these customers are about expressing their hatred of babies and young children (and their parents).

[Nikki Stone1]

141. I wonder if we'll get to the point where we have "family" flights and "non-family" flights on

popular routes. Sort of like restaurants. If you go to McDonald's or Denny's during the day, you expect to find families with kids. If you go to an upscale downtown or hotel restaurant during the day, you expect to find business lunches in progress. Children need to be able to jabber (not scream) and professional adults need to be able to prepare for business, so perhaps the answer is two different kinds of flights. After taking a red-eye flight some years ago, with a bunch of happy Christian teens on their way to Florida singing "It's a Small World After All" (and other Disney favorites) most of the night, I can really sympathize with folks who want to fly without unmannerly children and their oblivious parents or supervisors.

This is not to say adults can't be horribly annoying on planes as well. I can think of a few choice examples. And not all children are inappropriate, by the way. Some parents are very good at teaching their children manners; others, sadly, aren't. I just had lunch at a restaurant with a dear friend who kept her two little boys (both toddlers) under superb control in a very friendly and soft-spoken way. When the children did something inappropriate (which wasn't often), she explained to them that it was bad manners. Even with the little guy (about 1 and a half) she was practicing "please" and "thank you". Both kids were remarkably well-behaved for their ages. I would have had no problem traveling with either one of them. Yet, I have seen so many other parents--in restaurants, shopping centers, and other public spaces--just allow their children to scream, yell, sit in the middle of the floor, knock things down, etc. Sometimes the parents are simply ineffective (especially those that yell at their kids or slap them in public); sometimes the parents are just ignoring their children's behavior completely and are insulted when you notice that little Charley or Wendy is banging silverware non-stop on the table or is sitting in the middle of the cereal aisle.

I think the OP describes an iffy situation. The FA was clearly trying to transmit safety information to the passengers. Yeah, a lot of people may sleep through it, but I usually listen pretty carefully (I don't fly often) and it's nice to be reminded of where all the exits are. I think a kid saying "Bye-bye plane" all through the lecture might be a little annoying, but I don't think the kid and parent should be thrown off the plane for it. Maybe the FA was overworked. Union protections are going by the board and a lot of these FAs are working back-to-back cross-country flights and other kinds of crazy hours. It's possible that she was running on empty and the parent's sense of entitlement got to her.

[JCMach1]

152. Yeah, Child Apartheid is what we need...

:sarcasm:

[Nikki Stone1]

155. There are some places children simply don't function well.

Children should not be in Rated R (or other adult themed) movies for example. Completely inappropriate. Children may or may not be able to sit through a symphony or an opera, and probably should not be brought to those kinds of things until they can. Some engaged couples have wedding receptions sans kids. It makes sense if the party is going late and the couple want the wedding to be more adult.

Planes are one of those places where children may or may not do well, usually depending on the age and personality of the child and the ability of the parents to keep their children's behavior within bounds. Notice I did not say "perfect" or "adult-like". Kids are kids and you can't expect them to behave like adults, even on their best behavior. But planes can make any kid edgy, and little ones may have a particularly hard time flying. It might make sense to have special "family friendly" flights that might even allow for seom limited activities for kids.

[JCMach1]

171. I completely disagree... I took my kids from a young age

to performances, museums and restaurants precisely because I wanted them to be socialized to such situations... and you know what, my kids are better travelers, museum patrons, gastronomists, than many adults...

Excluding kids and having low expectations of them in this manner can also be very counterproductive...

In fact, there are many G and PG films that are not appropriate... as a parent, I reserve the right to judge that...

[Ms. Toad]

231. I believe it....

Just look at the posts in this thread - like post #138, for example.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

145. What An Absolute Disagrace. That Flight Attendant Is Disgusting.

All the baby did was cutely repeat "bye bye plane"? How DARE they have kicked them off for that. What the fuck is wrong with some people?

What pisses me off a bit more though is that in my opinion, every other person on the plane should've stepped up and protested the lunacy, and given the airlines a piece of their mind by letting them know how disgusted and angry they are at them turning around for such insane reasons. If I was on that plane I would've totally stood up and jumped in.

What a bunch of fucking assholes. Jesus.

[Nikki Stone1]

157. That flight attendant has lost a lot of union protections, including a decent schedule

She may overbooked, overworked, and losing some of her pension besides. The airlines have gotten worse in many ways since 9/11, and this FA looks as if she just couldn't take the parent's sense of entitlement to have her child babble on and on, interfering with the safety lecture. I don't blame her for getting angry. They shouldn't have thrown the mother and kid off the plane however. There, I agree with you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

159. To Each Their Own. I Find Her To Be An Utter Jackass.

[Nikki Stone1]

164. The mother's uncooperative attitude led to her and her child's removal from the plane

I'll be if she had apologized and had really tried to quiet her child instead of acting entitled and letting her child go on and on, the FA would have been OK with it. An airplane is private property and the airline has no legal responsibility to keep every uncooperative customer on the plane.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

169. Nope. The FA Was Just Quite Simply An Utter Jackass.

Nothing wrong with a small child enjoying the flight and repeating "Bye Bye Plane". In fact, the day this society becomes so blatantly fucking pathetic that such a concept is condemned, then we're truly fucked.

The FA should be condemned for her disgraceful behavior. Not the parent and child. In fact, she should fucking be fired.

[Puglover]

177. God OMC.

In this as in EVERY OTHER situation you encounter you have the crystal ball that sees all and knows all. You weren't there and you don't know the story anymore then I do.

You don't get away from the computer much do you?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

179. What Are You Talking About? All The Fucking Details Are There!

Let me guess: All of the witnesses that said it was perfectly harmless and were shocked at the FA's behavior and actions are all Rove plants under conspiracy to lie and make things up right?

Give me a fucking break.

This FA should be fucking fired. Open your damn eyes and learn how to read an article.

[Puglover]

191. I wasn't there. Neither were you. And yes I can read.

I've worked for a major airline for 28 years and have been consistently amused with passengers "versions" of what actually happened. And in 28 years of working I have never, NEVER seen a Capt. bring a plane back to the gate without a very good reason. Bringing a plane of passengers back to the gate is a BIG DEAL. And I cannot imagine a pilot doing that because a darling little baby was goo gooing during the preflight. Do YOU UNDERSTAND? I have actual EXPERIENCE here. I'm not being a clueless web warrior with an overbloated opinion of my limitless knowledge of what is and what isn't. If the article is acurate, the FA was out of line. You must believe everything you read without question? By the tone of your post apparently so. You must love Fox News. The have all the "facts".

"If I was on that plane I would've totally stood up and jumped in."

LOL yeah...you try that on one of my planes pal and you see how it works for you. You can tickle the baby while you explain yourself to the feds.


As to your Rove comment? Projecting?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

208. Again, The Details Are All In The Article.

I personally don't give a rat's fat ass about 'your' experience, since the world doesn't revolve around your experience alone.

What I do go by is facts. And based on the facts in the article including all of the eyewitnesses testimony about what happened (and they WERE there, so unless you can give me reason that they shouldn't be trusted, we can take them at their word), this FA overreacted and acted in a shameful and disgusting manner. I hope she's fucking fired.

And your faux news comments and other absurdities show you are not someone to discuss things with seriously. Such a weak way to forge debate. :eyes:

[Puglover]

211. Dude you can't keep it together from

pathetic post to pathetic post can you? You can dish out that Rove crack and yet when I respond in kind it renders me unworthy of debate. :rofl:

Seriously now, I don't want to debate with you further. All those vulgarites are showing me what a rough and tough big stoned guy you are.

:rofl:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

212. The Rove Crack Was Legitimate.

You seemed to completely dismiss the eyewitnesses as if they didn't even exist or weren't credible. When such things occur on here, so often there are claims of a Rove conspiracy blah blah blah. So it was a crack at that concept.

But the point you missed due to your limited ability to reason, is the fact that there were several eyewitnesses who WERE there and claimed the FA was out of line and were shocked at her actions and behavior, and that the child didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

But you seem to be ignoring that fact. You seem to want to pretend it doesn't exist, cause it wouldn't fit in to your narrow minded inaccurate assessment of what occurred. Well tough. That is what occurred, and the FA was disgusting in her behavior. Get over it.

But I couldn't help notice that instead of responding to context, all you could do is respond with personal nonsense. You must've realized your argument towards the context quite simply fell apart. :hi:

[Puglover]

220. Okay...

You seemed to completely dismiss real-world experience as if it doesn't even exist or weren't credible. When such things occur on here, so often you appear on the scene with your uncanny extrasensory perception blah blah blah. Is that the result of genetics -- or astral projection?

But the point you missed due to your limited ability to step out from behind your computer every so often and interact with the real world, is the fact that you WEREN'T there, yet you claim to know every last detail, thanks to your sudden, unshakable faith in the mainstream media. With your superhuman ability to perceive the finest nuances of any situation from afar, I am truly shocked that you have not lent your abilities to the CIA.

But you seem to be ignoring the fact that I know what I'm talking about, and you don't. You seem to want to pretend there is no greater authority than you, on every subject, all the time, 'cause it wouldn't fit in to your narrow minded inaccurate assessment of beings lesser than your great and omniscient self. Well tough. What occurred is that you opined on a yet another subject about which you know nothing. That is disgusting behavior. Get over it.

But I couldn't help notice that instead of responding to context, all you could muster was a lame attempt to impugn my real-world experience. You must've realized your inability to budge your ass out of your chair and stopping hiding behind your keyboard which has crippled your ability to engage in a discussion with a responsible adult, with a real life.


Oh and back at ya. :hi:

Oh and on edit. I am done here. You are no longer the slightest bit amusing. Simply pitiable.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

222. I'm Amazed This Is So Hard For You To Grasp.

Your real world experience means DICK in this discussion.

The details are more than enough available. The witnesses are more than enough believable. The fact is you just don't want to believe them or acknowledge them, because you're under this ridiculously misguided notion that your real world experience actually counts for a goddamn thing here. It doesn't. It means jack shit in fact.

And if you are seriously putting forth an argument that your 'real world' experience trumps the actual details of the story and MULTIPLE first hand witness accounts, well, then, excuse me for laughing my ass off heartily.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It is useless going on with you if you are going to continue to be this blind to reality.

Bye now! :hi:

[Puglover]

223. You are right OMC.

It is useless to keep going, because I am never going to be able to "grasp" your concept, your argument or logic. Because I am at least somewhat sane. And your argument simply......isn't.

Good luck buddy. :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

225. Thanks. I Know I Am. But The Rest Of Your Premise Was Like Bizarro World.

I mean, you truly believe your argument is somewhat sane and mine isn't? :spray:

Holy cow, that was too much! Let's revisit positions ok?

YOU are taking a position that the FA was in the right based solely by what you put forth as reasoning on the fact that you have experience and therefore say it is so, even though your position is contrary to EVERYTHING stated in the news story itself and directly contradicts the EYEWITNESS accounts of MULTIPLE witnesses. I, however, am putting forth my position based DIRECTLY on the facts of the story and multiple eyewitness accounts. And you think yours is the sane ground? :rofl:

Okey dokey pokey! Tell ya what: Argue each one of our sides in front of a courtroom and see which premise the judge laughs his ass of at.

Too rich! :hi:

[AspenRose]

174. Because it bears repeating

From the article:

"Katie was in shock at that point," Watts (one of the witnesses) explained. "You could tell. She was in row 3 and I was in row 6. She just kept saying, 'I don't know what you expect me to do. I don't know what you expect me to do.'"


Sorry, that doesn't sound like a mother "acting entitled."

[Bonobo]

213. Should have tazed them, eh Nikkie?

[JNelson6563]

147. I'd have to know more before judging

Though it sounds like the stewardess was out of line here. I must admit some parents make no effort to control their kids. My SIL is one of them and her child has run roughshod over more than one event while she sat there smiling sheepishly. I'll never forget the time a year or two ago, it was my birthday and they came for cake and ice cream. That child screamed repeatedly that she wanted cake and ice cream. I mean non-stop. My SIL did nothing to stop it. After about the 10th time evenmy own kids were looking like they'd like to stuff a sock in their cousin's mouth.

My daughter, recent high school graduate, had a summer job hostessing and busing tables at a restaurant a couple years ago. She would often comehome marvelling at the horrible behavior that many parents let their little ones get away with. This from a girl who loves babies and kids, has always been the neighborhood babysitter and the kids have always flocked to her.

Just sayin' that hey, yeah sometimes people over react to typical baby behavior but, also, sometimes parents need to parent.

Julie

[tammywammy]

154. The thing with this story

is that there are eyewitnesses other than the mother. That makes me believe that the mom's telling the truth.

The FA was way out of line.

[marlakay]

153. 14 hour flight with toddler to Korea from Seattle

My daughter just left a few days ago with my grandson to join her husband, captain in air force now stationed in korea for 2 years. She had no other way to bring him there but by plane and knew in advance no way he would be happy for that long. She brought dvd player with baby enstein dvds and a few toys and they let her bring his sippy cup and milk thank god but that isn't going to last 14 hours!!

She said he got loud a few times and she flew korean air on purpose because she heard the service was the best...she said they tried to help her through the flight. Also my daugher is 4 1/2 months pregnant with second one to so it was a very long flight.

I don't really like to hear screaming babies on a flight who does...but I always feel sorry for the mothers and if I am sitting close try to make funny faces to make baby laugh...

Stewardess probably went to work after a bad nights sleep or a fight with her man...

I think bye bye plane sounds cute and most people have heard that speech about safety a bizillion times.

I love southwest these days, been on 5 different flights now where the FA will either joke with the people, sing to them (really one lady sang the safety rules to us and had great voice we all clapped) I think they are trying hard to get people to like flying again.

[Nikki Stone1]

160. I'll bet the flight attendant had been working more hours than the union would allow

They're losing union protections and are probably overworked and overbooked.

[seabeyond]

187. hour flight from dallas to ama. young woman with baby and two year old

and no help sat right in front of me. had been delayed for hours. was ten at night. everyone tired. i knew she was having it rough. as soon as she started settlin in front of me i started talking to the two year old keeping her busy. and though i was tired too, not my job, and really didnt want.... i helped that woman thru the flight, once off the plane (took little one to rest room, and to the luggage area helping with that... until someone came to help her.

she didnt want to be on the plane. the babies didnt. was something they had to do. circumstances

we used to be a nation where we helped one another. used to have extended family around us. used to have a lifetime in one place making friends.

today.... regardless of what is going on we expect all from a single person without offering a helping hand. and in the struggle to remain standing,... we stand back in all our self righteousness, without the burden and criticize.

i am glad your daughter had some help. the trip is done. i guess some would suggest she leave her baby home, or they both stay away from hubby? not a lot of tolerance with some.

[gollygee]

221. 14 hour flight from LA X to Melbourne

With a just 2-year-old child who had just flown from Chicago to LAX. She only had one tantrum, not long after we took off, but god she was SO LOUD and it seemed like it lasted FOREVER. I swear I would have given her any toy or any kind of candy in the world at that moment if she would just be quiet.

She cried herself to sleep and slept for only a couple of hours. She didn't sleep much the rest of the (overnight) flight but she was very docile and quiet after that. She was always like that - she'd tantrum and it would be awful, but we always knew after she had a tantrum she'd be the sweetest most docile and compliant child on the planet. I hope how quiet she was the rest of the flight made up for that early tantrum for the other people on the plane. :(

The fact is that children are children. They behave like children. It just happens. If people refused to be around or talked like I've seen in this thread about elderly people, disabled people, FFS any group of people other than children, the thread would be locked and mass posts would be deleted. It really bothers me that it's considered acceptable to talk about children like this.

[Beelzebud]

163. Welcome to your new Fascist Dictotorship.

[Nikki Stone1]

166. An airline is a private business, not a government.

A business has a right to refuse service. And if an airline thinks that a passenger is interfering with the safety or comfort of others, they reserve the right to refuse service.

[Beelzebud]

172. Oh you mean private business that is propped up on government subsidies?

That is by the very definition, fascism...

[Puglover]

178. And your post is by definition bullshit.

I've worked for a major for 28 fuckin years and we aren't propped up by any government subsidies. Quit repeating false horseshit please.

[Bonobo]

214. You are the richest kool person I know!!

[Catherine Vincent]

167. I'd have to be there to witness the incident.

It is sad that they kicked the kid and his mom off the plane.

[MilesColtrane]

175. The child was just the catalyst for this confrontation.

I believe the passengers were removed because mom threatened the flight attendant. (at least that's the FA's version of what happened)

It's inconceivable that they were tossed simply because of too much noise.

This was a power struggle between two, obviously, very strong willed individuals. That's a fight that the flight attendant will always win.

[seabeyond]

189. or per witness there was no threat and attendant lied. n/t

[MilesColtrane]

200. Then mom should bring the pain. (and lawyers)

My prediction: there will be a lawsuit followed by an out of court settlement and we'll never know what really happened.

[truebrit71]

196. Wow, having read the replies in this thread there seem to be more than a few folks...

...who were perfect parents and had disciplined their children to the point of total silence on command...

To those of us that live in the real world and actually DO have children, that HAVE flown with them and understand that after an ELEVEN HOUR DELAY they might be a little fractious, in this ladies case I too would have been totally at a loss as to what the Flight Nazi expected me to do...

It seems that the Flight Nazi handled the stress and pressure of the ELEVEN HOUR DELAY more poorly than the toddler who was simply saying 'bye-bye plane'... I hope they fire her intolerant ass.

[assclown_bush]

206. This is WONDERFUL news! I applaud the airline and I will write them to tell them so!

I cannot stand noisy people any more than some people can stand cigarette smoke or perfumes. I am sure the mother and the bag of poo (aka the baby) had it coming to them.

In this day and age we cannot be too careful on flights...I say bravo to the flight attendant for doing her job.:applause:

[Midlodemocrat]

215. You were a to quote you ' a bag of poo' once.

Jesus Christ. :eyes:

[AspenRose]

216. If nothing else, this thread has helped me with my ignore list.

eom

[Ms. Toad]

232. lol . . .

I had never really considered using my ignore list before - but that though did cross my mind repeatedly for a couple of posters in reading these threads.

[assclown_bush]

227. Have you ever heard of PUNCTUATION???

In my book children should neither be seen nor heard. There is nothing worse than sitting on an 11 hour flight with some smelly screeching baby near by. Babies should be put in cargo.

[Name removed]

229. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CarlWoodward]

217. If they can

If they can remove a 19-month-old from a flight for babbling, they should also be able to kick off:

- The overweight passengers who take up half the each seat of the passengers next to them, and act offended if you suggest they should have bought two seats.
- The idiots who are watching hardcore porn on their portable DVD players, which everyone around them can see
- The "corporate travelers" who try to use an enormous laptop and dig through file folders while in the middle seat in coach, letting their papers constantly spill over on their seatmates and treating their row like its their personal corporate office.
- The blowhards who have loud discussions about "the pussy libruls in Congress" and "why we have to keep fighting the terr'rists in Iraq" with no thought to whether the people around them want to hear their ridiculous political comments.
- The couple that makes out loudly during the entire flight with no regard to the people around them.
- The guy who has brought a Thanksgiving dinner's worth of fast food, salty snacks, candy and soda with him for an hourlong flight and loudly consumes it during the next 60 minutes, complete with "aaaahhhhs" and belches as he munches his supersized Greasyburger and fries.
- The salesman sitting next to you who doesn't know how to stop talking to you, even after you've pointedly begun reading a book or even put on headphones.
- The passenger near you who smells.

Hell, crying babies are among the least irritating things I've run across over many years of traveling. The adults are almost always far worse.

[Hekate]

228. After an 11-hour delay the baby says "Bye-bye plane" instead of throwing a tantrum?Good baby!

My gods, I can't believe the sheer volume of hateful and mean-spirited posts on this thread!

On your next several flights may you all be squashed next to stinking drunk adults! Using their air-sickness bags!

Unbelievable.

Hekate