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READ!! -- NSA doc proves "Bush Authorized Domestic Spying BEFORE 9/11"

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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:22 PM
Original message
READ!! -- NSA doc proves "Bush Authorized Domestic Spying BEFORE 9/11"
From Truthout:

"The National Security Agency advised President Bush in early 2001 that it had been eavesdropping on Americans during the course of its work monitoring suspected terrorists and foreigners believed to have ties to terrorist groups, according to a declassified document.

"The NSA's vast data-mining activities began shortly after Bush was sworn in as president and the document contradicts his assertion that the 9/11 attacks prompted him to take the unprecedented step of signing a secret executive order authorizing the NSA to monitor a select number of American citizens thought to have ties to terrorist groups."

snip

"But according to people who worked at the NSA as encryption specialists during this time, that's not what happened. On orders from Defense Department officials and President Bush, the agency kept a running list of the names of Americans in its system and made it readily available to a number of senior officials in the Bush administration, these sources said, which in essence meant the NSA was conducting a covert domestic surveillance operation in violation of the law."

snip

"According to the online magazine Slate, an unnamed official in the telecom industry said NSA's efforts to obtain call details go back to early 2001, predating the 9/11 attacks and the president's now celebrated secret executive order. The source reports that the NSA approached U.S. carriers and asked for their cooperation in a 'data-mining' operation, which might eventually cull 'millions' of individual calls and e-mails."

Link to article: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011306Z.shtml
Link to NSA document: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB24/nsa25.pdf


This completely undermines BushCo's claim that Congress's Authorization of Military in Afghanistan gave them the "statutorial exception" for warrantless wiretaps. It couldn't...because it hadn't happened yet!!

I haven't looked through the NSA doc fully yet, but it wouldn't hurt to also try and get the testimony of that unnamed telecom industry official mentioned in the last paragraph of the article.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. We knew this, but this is the best way I've seen in presented.
K&R.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Thanks, I knew some had seen it but a couple of us thought
...it was well worth re-mentioning!
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democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I find it hard to believe that Senate Democrats don't know this. n/t
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I do too.
Of course, I was surprised at the level of ignorance regarding Diebold, PNAC, etc.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. We should make certain the press and Dems in Congress have copies...
...of this. Gets Gonzales for lying to the Congress, too.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
57. perhaps someone should send it to Keith O
What say you?? Although it may be even too hot for him to touch.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. Stephanie Miller is talking about the pre 9/11 spying
on today's show - maybe K.O. should pick this up

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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #57
64. I did
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catmother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. so if the monitoring were working wouldn't they have caught
the 9/11 highjackers before they hit us?
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. That's assuming they were actually monitoring for terrorists
The thing to bear in mind is that regardless of why BushCo were eavesdropping, they broke the law to do it.
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catmother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. of course. i know that. but that point can be brought up -- if
he was listening for terrorists -- well. what happened dubya??
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Quite so
I didn't mean to talk down to you, sorry.

You're right, if this gets out (a big if) people will definitely want to know what good any kind of wiretap is if warrantless ones didn't stop 9/11. And it adds another failure to Bush**'s scorecard.

But I think that would be a natural, automatic response to this information. It certainly was for me. The thought that needs clarifying in the general public is that none of these wiretaps were legal -- and this proves it.
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catmother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. exactly. nt
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gilpo Donating Member (601 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
72. It could be part of the source for PDB "Binladen determined to strike..."
Which we all know he ignored anyway. My thought is that they have been spying on political enemies, not real enemies and that is why they had to circumvent FISA.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-09-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
85. That's the question I have as well...
With outgoing Clinton telling incoming Bush that terrorism and al Qaeda were his number one concerns, and with the revelation that Bush was spying before 9/11, who the Hell was he spying on?!?!? It's a question that needs answering!

Oh, and the Aug. 6 PDB ("Bin Laden determined to strike within United States") should have most certainly prompted him to order the NSA to monitor their calls. Yet, 19 terrorists hijacked 4 planes. Makes one wonder...

Also on a personal note: I'm convinced now that Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen. Considering what we know know about NSA spying, the 8/6 PDF, the Clinton/Bush meeting, etc., it answers why Bush did nothing when told by Andy Card that "we are under attack." He already knew...
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Total Information Awareness -
That's exactly what's going on here. Interesting LTTE:

Who will help when Pentagon nabs you?

Back in February 2003, Capitol Hill agreed to bar the Department of Defense from implementing a computer surveillance scheme called "Total Information Awareness." There was concern about a program that would enable federal authorities to dig into the details of the lives of American citizens.

That concern has not penetrated our executive branch. Using the umbrella of "executive privilege" and a rather vague reference to the Constitution, the current administration has again placed our sacred right of privacy in jeopardy. Our history, in general, supports the view that the danger of violent individual acts is far outweighed by government activities which do not respect the dignity and privacy of its citizens.

We are all terrified by the thought of being blindsided by terrorists with bombs or germs. However, that terror can in no way compare to the horror of an overzealous government suddenly allowed to examine each of us with a microscope.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...


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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. Were they looking for terrorist before 9/11? Then why didn't they
see it coming? Something stinks.

I'm more inclined to believe that they were spying on their political opponents.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. they had this little program, and oh yea...
Something like 14 warnings from the intel. departments of other countries.

LIHOP if not MIHOP
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. They were looking in Florida, silly.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Don't these men look like they could have graduated from a
Hitler youth organization?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. My ex stepfather was in the Hitler Youth.
They look just like him. :puke:
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, that is why I am puzzled at the Dem strategy in the hearings
stressing the need for protection. Not one of them brought this document up for discussion.

Also I would like us to encourage those repubs, who are going against turd blossom' s threats:

snip

The sources said the administration has been alarmed over the damage that could result from the Senate hearings, which began on Monday, Feb. 6. They said the defection of even a handful of Republican committee members could result in a determination that the president violated the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Such a determination could lead to impeachment proceedings.

Over the last few weeks, Mr. Rove has been calling in virtually every Republican on the Senate committee as well as the leadership in Congress. The sources said Mr. Rove's message has been that a vote against Mr. Bush would destroy GOP prospects in congressional elections.

from:
http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Rove2.htm
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Also, none of them brought up the outsourcing of NSA functions spelled
out in the same document.
These are private companies folks.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. think gannon/guckert!!
was gannon at the hearing for a purpose?? was he there sending a message?? a threat??, a warning to any who came down on this?? was he there as a warning to dems or rethugs or both??

remember he never got a capitol hill press pass ..so how did he get into the hearing yesterday????????

and why exactly was he there?????????

hmmmmmmmmm

fly
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
43. Too bad Rover....
this issue is much, much bigger than simple Republican vs. Democratic politics. Some Republicans may still honor the Constitution.
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. So why didn't they catch the 9-11 hijackers they keep claiming
they 'mighta coulda woulda shoulda' caught if this program had been in place prior to 9-11?
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. They weren't looking for Terrorists
They were doing a Nixon, that's why they didn't find the hijackers.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. Maybe the program wasn't about catching terrorists
Maybe it never was?

But again, the main point is that regardless of who Bush** was looking for -- even if he were doing it with the best intentions (snort, chortle) -- he did it illegally. The distinction between legal and illegal is what's important.
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LuCifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. DUHbya should have spied on his Aug. 6, 01, PDB
But nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sadly,the NSA hasprobably been doing this for years before 9/11 BUT...
that doesn't mean we can't catch shrubby in his web of lies
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Is it possible it was
going on during the Clinton Administration?
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
71. They were
and that's all I can say about that.

I have first-hand info. I can tell you that much.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. I remember reading a book about it a few years ago
At the time I dismissed it as tinfoil hat stuff. Not anymore.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Well, my hubby was a spy.
I can say that much because it's not a secret.
He was Army.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. EVERY DUer needs this information. K & R
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. Once again, Ken Mehlman was bragging right after the 2004 Election
That the Bush/Cheney campaign targeted voters the same way corporations target consumers, through data mining. They used the NSA in their campaign operations, and it would also explain why nobody has ever been charged with impersonating a federal officer in Ohio on election day.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. Domestic Spying prior to 9/11 for what reason?????
Political gain???? Paranoia????? Arrogant Abuse of Power???? Psychopathy???? ALL of the aforementioned?????
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. To KEEP power.
x( They can blackmail whomever they please. They can plan PR strategy based upon info they acquire. They can be dictators.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Preemptively setting up for REX84 suspension of constitution
Don't you think ? Pretext for war may be discovered early. They couldn't take that chance; and also Rove couldn't live without domestic surveillance on his 'enemies'.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Concentration camps?

They'll probably start with Arab and Iranian-Americans first.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. The stuff I've seen just says any 'dissenter' to the wars planned
and after the 'national emergency' is signed off on by Bush, or whoever is president at the time. BTW, Immigration and Customs Enforcement is now the leading DHS intelligence unit under the realignment of government since 9-11. FEMA has been re-arranged as the source of the power, so this means more executive orders have been signed off on since the FEMA / Rex 84 stuff.

See you at band camp !
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Their would be too much public outrage though....

if they started rounding up dissenters. I think first they would go through and round up criminals and potential terrorists, like they have already done, then once a big war breaks out they might step it up a notch. It would probably take a big domestic event, when everyone is afraid to say anything, and then I guess FEMA could take control.
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pushycat Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
76. No need to go to all that trouble. Just bring out the new laser
weapons for crowd control. Who wants to chance getting blinded, pacemaker jammed, skin glued to the sidewalk? http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/015...

They are testing these in Iraq:
http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2004/11/29...

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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. I believe that a major reason for the spying is to get BLACKMAIL material
to keep GOPs, Dems, media and other key people toeing the Bushie regime line. I'm not the only one thinking about how the Bushies enforce complliance with their criminal agenda. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (2-6-06 GD): Ex-Reagan official- Dubya uses spying to blackmail media & Dems

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (2-6-06 GD): Rove Threatens Republican Senators...

The second of these current threads talks about how Rove is threatening any GOP Senators who dare to question the NSA spying legality with political non-support. But really, can't you see Rove doing his usual behind-the-scenes arm-twisting and dirty tricks, letting them know (through intermediates so that deniability is preserved) that he's got tapes of them with male or female prostitutes or documents showing them taking bribes? Even if he MAKES UP a charge of corruption, it would quite possibly destroy a reputation.
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. This doesn't even matter,
it's just frosting on the cake. The FISA statute was updated FOUR times to accommodate any new needed authorities. Bush didn't want to go anywhere near that FISA judge with what he was doing. He just thought it would never be found out.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. It does matter
The crux of BushCo's defense is Congress's post-9/11 authorization to invade Afghanistan. Bushbots keep parroting that like it means something. It doesn't, for the reasons you state. But the administration have boxed themselves in with this excuse. How can they now defend warrantless wiretaps conducted PRE-9/11?

To me that's a bit more than frosting on the cake...but I've been known to get overly optimistic about these sorts of things.

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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. You got it! KICK!!
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. Does the committee have this?
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Don't know
Has anyone emailed/faxed this article and the NSA document to the committee? Who ARE the committee and do we have a list of email addresses/fax numbers?
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
37. Which means these wiretaps couldn't prevent 9/11.
Doesn't that kind of taking a huge, steaming crap all over Bush's only argument in favor of them?
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #37
52. Actually it means that the arguement Gonzo used to justify the taps is....
fallicious through and through. He was baseing the Presidents authority on the Resolution of Force from 9/11. If the spying pre-dated 9/11, his legal justification collapses.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
38. We need to get this to the hearings (Leahy) if there is time. I cannot
do it because I only have about an hour a day on the computer.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
40. Does ANYONE have the emails and faxes for the committee members??
Please, we should be sending this article and the NSA doc to each and every one of them!!

And a kick for good measure.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
41. Another kick for the evening crew
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'd be happier reading this on the front page of the Times.
But.......I know better.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. fucking KICK KICK KICK KICK!!!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. fucking KICK KICK KICK KICK!!!
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
50. and apparently it didn't stop 911
so the program is fucking useless. As are the idiots in the WH.

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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #50
59. Well, Rummy Already Told Us That
Remember that both he and Cheney, in the last 30 days essentially guaranteed we would be attacked again. So, from their own mouths, we know that everything they've done has been useless. Not only does this document establish it, their statements prove they know it to be true.

They have accomplished nothing!
The Professor
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #59
81. Well
I was being rhetorical. Now I'll be dead serious -- 911 was an inside job, and the next attack will also be an inside job.

You don't actually think that everything they're getting away with for the past five years is because of a dumb luck terror attack that they "never could have imagined" on September 11th, 2001, do you?
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
51. K & R
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 07:23 AM by mikelewis
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
53. howcome this doc is public?. . . . n/t
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
54. My phone has been tapping.....
Ever since my eighth grader wrote a controversial paper about why and how we could not economically afford this war. Yes- she also pointed out that the loss of life was also not worth going to war over.
Another little sidebar of this school year included a state representative's attorney telling me that I sounded like I was at war with my daughter's school. I had asked the school's superintendent to investigate an incident that involved a knife being put up to my child backside. These are two different issues, but we found the attorneys response concerning, and had noticed considerable phone troubles shortly after this. Also my husband was audited by the IRS. This may be coincidental. What has anyone else with objections to this war experienced?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
55. He had other motives for Wiretapping!!!
:argh:
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
56. Stephanie Miller is talking about the pre 9/11 spying
just thought you all would like to know.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. Great!
(I think.) What was she saying?
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. basically was saying what the truthout article was saying- about
how this program was enacted/authorized before 9/11 and that the program has ensnarled thousands of people as opposed to the limited spying that admin says that it does.

They did a really good job.

Has anyone been emailing K.O. with this stuff?

I know that this story has been out for weeks but I think that people may actually pay more attention to it in lieu of this weeks hearings.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. OK - I contacted K.O. - here is my message
Keith - I am a huge fan, please do not let this story fall in the cracks - we/America is counting on you.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011306Z.shtml - story from truthout.org

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB24/nsa25.pdf - link to NSA document

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... - link to all inclussive discussion at DU


email address:

countdown@msnbc.com
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. countdown@msnbc.com - K.O. email address if you all would like to
contact him about this.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Thanks!
I just did.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. no sweat and
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 11:51 AM by stop the bleeding
:kick: :dem:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
67. kick and recommended!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Atmashine Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
68. Well, this Act was well before 9/11/01
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_...

"The Act obliges telephone companies to make it possible for law enforcement agencies to tap any phone conversations carried out over its networks..."

Should this be read as law enforcement has the direct ability to tap our phones, without the need of someone at the phone company to 'tap' it using a warrant; or that phone companies merely need the technical means to tap regardless who is doing it?
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. This must mean with a warrant
The police and FBI have obvious need to tap phones in certain situations; they have to secure a warrant from a judge before asking the phone company to put the tap in place. If they don't have a warrant and prosecute based on evidence from wiretapping, all that evidence is bound to be thrown out by the trial judge.

At least, that's what I've absorbed from watching Law & Order. ;-)
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
69. kick
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feistydem Donating Member (994 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
70. This is H-U-G-E! Thanks for posting. You got my recommendation.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
75. kick
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
78. Did you know there was a Trojan virus called DeepThroat?

:rofl:

My anti-virus software just reported an attack!
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Hmmm. I wonder if the NSA is sending out viruses
to attack liberals?!? ;)
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. I don't know, but I had just been at a site called....

cryptome.org

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
82. Kick, unable to recommend this 24 hrs
But I hate them today just as much, or more (if possible), as I did yesterday.
yay for hate! :bounce: :party: :bounce: hate party! I could be a Rethuglican...
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-09-06 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
83. Thanks, this is what I was looking for, I forgot to book mark it
nt
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-09-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
84. The most important part of the pdf document is the cover page.
On which is prominently featured the date. The second most important part of the document is a grammatical feature: the tenses of the verbs used.

Nothing in that document can actually refer to anything that had happened under * as fact, because the document was drawn up pre-*. It can refer to past events as fact, for they presumably happened; it can refer to current practices as practices, which is to say, the way things should be done; and it can make claims about future events. The latter two ways of referring are irrealis, and I prefer to think I'm not part of the irreality-based community.

One needs get no further than the cover to conclude that if the pdf is referring to illegal acts, it's referring to them exclusively under Clinton. Otherwise, we're led to a temporal paradox of the sort that Capt. Janeway would cringe at.

The article's referenced because of a practice that existed under Clinton. Intelligence collects info, and provides it with the names stripped out; under Clinton the intelligence collection was only done legally, the argument is, and that's what the pdf refers to. But if the Powers That Be affirm that the made this assertion rather less frequently than * & crew. It was legal under Clinton; it's legal under *. It may be taken advantage of improperly under *, but that doesn't make it illegal.

There's the illegal wiretapping that's the current buzz. There's this practice. Confuse them only at the risk of being confused.
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-09-06 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
86. Hmm. If started so early, Cheney likely did it, and also under Poppy *.
Just a guess...
:banghead:
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