Oh shit

[nadinbrzezinski]

just now, buildup of Naval forces in the Persian Gulf per Air America radio and CBS News.... as a "warning to Iran" DOD is denying

[Cleita]

1. Don't know how I think about this.

(It's pretty negative.)

:kick:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. As I said, oh shit

will go searching for a link now

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. found one... Reuters 2 hours ago

US to warn Iran with naval buildup in Gulf- CBS

WASHINGTON, Dec 18 (Reuters) - The Pentagon is planning a major buildup of U.S. naval forces in and around the Gulf as a warning to Iran, CBS News reported on Monday.

A senior Defense Department official told Reuters the report was "premature" and appeared to be drawing "conclusions from assumptions." The official did not know of plans for a major change in naval deployment.

Another Defense Department official called the report "speculative" and a Pentagon spokeswomen declined to comment.

Citing unidentified military officers, CBS said the plan called for the deployment of a second U.S. aircraft carrier to join the one already in the region.

The network said the buildup, which would begin in January, wad not aimed at an attack on Iran but to discourage what U.S. officials view as increasingly provocative acts by Tehran.

The report said Iranian naval exercises in the Gulf, its support for Shi'ite militias in Iraq and Iran's nuclear program were causes for concern among U.S. officials.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N18217613.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. thanks yahoo and cbs gave me none

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I hate it when they read it and

then I can't find squat

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. Google news

seems to give me the best hits... use lots of key words. I used "Persian Gulf naval buildup"

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I did, should I return mozilla???

I have to find humor in this... hard to do that... god I hate these morons

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. I'm one of those lazy people still using IE

just can't seem to work up the ambition to add another piece of software to my poor old machine. lol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I mostly use Mozilla

due to its security features... and I still get crap, but far less

[seemslikeadream]

3. Reuel Marc Gerecht - To Bomb, or Not to Bomb

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/100mmysk.asp?pg=1

....


The opponents of military strikes against the mullahs' weapons facilities say there are no guarantees that we can permanently destroy their weapons production. This is true. We can't guarantee the results. But what we can do is demonstrate, to the mullahs and to others elsewhere, that even with these uncertainties, in a post-9/11 world the United States has red lines that will compel it to act. And one nonnegotiable red line is that we will not sit idly and watch a virulently anti-American terrorist-supporting rogue state obtain nukes. We will not be intimidated by threats of terrorism, oil-price spikes, or hostile world opinion. If the ruling clerical elite wants a head-on collision with a determined superpower, then that's their choice.

....


Seymour Hersh: Cheney Says 'Whether Or Not Dems Win-NO STOPPING Military Option With Iran'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2757350

“This is the largest massing of military power in the region, and it is gathering for a reason.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2753952

Does anyone still believe the US will launch a full scale invasion of Iran?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2856177

[Trajan]

16. Now THIS is the scary stuff ....

THIS is policy hawks gone mad ....

THIS is Neocon thinking at its cynical, inhumane worst ....

I guess a failed Iraq venture is not enough for them ....

They need MORE failure in Iran before they depart the america polity for good ....

This is shameful war mongering at its worst ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Yep, I have believed for a while that

they'd at least try to attack Iran... now that is materializing... christmas gift to the nation perhaps?

Afetr all these a-holes believe in the wonderful smell of napalm in the morning... :sarcasm:

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

20. A head-on collision with a superpower?

Funny, seems like Iran has been at that since, oh 1979 or so, and is still around, no?

[rollopollo]

27. Persuasive?

How does an essay like this possibly convince people that another war is in our national interest? I read the full article, and it was fairly long, and I didn't see one benefit for America. He somehow worked into the article discussions of socialism, Iran's "basketcase" economy, critiques of "realism", internal Iranian politics, and a cursory rebuttal of possible reasons why we shouldn't bomb Iran. But noticeably absent was: What would the United States gain by bombing Iran? CIA and UN estimates put Iran at about 10 years away from having a nuclear weapons program. We are moving towards an embargo through the UN Security Council to deny Iran materials that could be used to weaponize their nuclear technology. Whatever Iran's ideology may be, they don't pose a direct threat to the United States. They lack the motive and the means to attack us, lacking ICBMs. Sure Iran funds Hezbollah, and while we don't condone that, Hezbollah has not attacked the US and there are no signs or reason to believe that they will (although if we bomb Iran, they may have a reason) Colin Powell recently said we were stretched thin in Iraq...so if Bush wants to send more troops to Iraq, where will the troops come from to attack Iran?

Bombing countries is not something we should take lightly. This arrogance of power will come back to haunt us in an age when rising superpowers such as China and India will require us to use finesse and diplomacy. We underestimated the challenge in accomplishing our objectives in Iraq. And now, while the Iraq situation is "grave and deteriorating" rather than focusing exclusively on salvaging this effort, we are letting Afghanistan burn and considering armed confrontation with another Middle Eastern country. I am speechless.

[Selatius]

37. This will provoke a region-wide war that will impact the entire world if done.

We will face Iran and possibly other countries like Syria on the battlefield, and on the economic battlefield, we will face Russia and China.

You may as well consider it a two-front world war.

[RC]

39. determined or deluded?

"If the ruling clerical elite wants a head-on collision with a determined superpower, then that's their choice."

[cynatnite]

4. Link here...

The Pentagon is planning a naval buildup in the Persian Gulf as a warning to Iran. New Defense Secretary Robert Gates warns of "a calamity" if the U.S. fails in Iraq. David Martin reports.

http://www.cbsnews.com/

It's a video on the right side of the page.

[babylonsister]

8. Yep:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2657972

[seemslikeadream]

10. Should We Worry About the Saudi Threats?

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/americaabroad/2006/dec/18/should_we_worry_about_the_saudi_threats

Let us also hope that Prince Turki al-Faysal, the architect of Saudi Arabia’s jihad strategy of the 1980s and 1990s, did not abruptly leave his post as Ambassador to Washington to take charge of the new jihad campaign.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

22. Or did he quit because he would not

be part of it?

[MADem]

24. Your link explains it all, really....the carrier off Iran is a Christmas gift to the Saudis

It's George's way of saying "In the middle eastern region, we still love YOU best, House of Saud!!" See, I'll even rattle my saber carrier at your enemy to prove my affection!!!

And no doubt it IS in response to Turki's fit of pique....

These are nervous times for Saudi Arabia. The Kingdom appears to have thrown its customary caution to the wind. In Opinion pieces, through leaks and in face-to-face talks with the Vice President who was hastily summoned to Riyadh, Saudis are expressing their deep frustration with the turn of events. Their long investment in Lebanon is coming undone, Iraq is breaking up into a hostile Shia unite and a potentially troublesome Sunni “al-Qaedaland”, both sharing borders with the Kingdom. More worrisome, the Shia-Sunni conflict in Iraq has somehow metamorphosed into a broader Saudi-Iranian competition at a time when Iran seems to hold most of the cards—in Iraq and Lebanon, and over the Palestinian issue. Iran is emerging as a hegemon with nuclear capability at a time when U.S. staying power in the region is open to question. Saudis fear an aggressive Iran, but perhaps fear even more an opening in US-Iran relations—which would then confirm Iranian status in the Persian Gulf and relegate them to second-class regional status. Not a surprise that King Abdullah has objected to U.S.-Iran talks.

[Rex]

11. What? All the strike forces finally arrive?

That was one big list of naval weapons. Did they send the new GHWB carrier over there? With that big ugly picture of their soon-to-be owner? The Romans could have only dreamed of such weapons.

[seemslikeadream]

15. CBS video

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2279916n

[lvx35]

19. thanks, you rock. nt

[bobbolink]

17. It's been in the "pipeline" a long time.

These plans have been there for quite a while, and unless something big blocks it, it will happen.

Lovely.

[Az]

21. You don't move that much firepower without having planned it out

The big question is does George pull the trigger or is he just bluffing. We got no boots to put on the ground there. We can shell and bomb but we can't hold a damn thing.

[flyarm]

23. NADIN..WHEN YOU SAY "OH SHIT" MY EARS PERK UP

AND I PAY ATTENTION!!

and i will repeat your words..

"oh shit!!"

fly

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. You and I have been in this since '02

so this one made me go, OH SHIT... I wonder if this is what our misleader desires for a Christmas gift, right before the Dems take COngress

War powers would kick in and he'll have 90 days to run roughshod

[Doc_Technical]

26. I wonder if one of the ships is the USS Vincennes.

This ship and Iran have a bad history.

[maveric]

46. I've worked aboard that ship many times as a contractor.

I'm not really sure but I beleive that it was de-commissioned a couple of years ago.
That is a scary looking ship too and being on board was eery to me.

[flyarm]

47. USS Vincennes.

ONE MAN IN MY LARGE INTERNET GROUP'S SON IS ON THAT SHIP ..I BELIEVE IT WENT OVER THERE SOME TIME AGO..IF I AM REMEMBERING CORRECTLY!

FLY

[haele]

53. Vincennes was decommissioned in July of 2005.

Not gonna be there.

Haele

[Oilwellian]

28. Our kids in Iraq are sitting ducks

They'll be Iran's first target if we bomb them. But I think that's the intent. The psychopaths must have their perpetual, moneymaking war.

[originalpckelly]

29. Gulf of Tonkin = Gulf of Persia?

:shrug:

I wonder how long until we hear about destroyers being fired on by underwater missiles.

[TahitiNut]

30. I don't think there's any doubt that the insane bastards in the White House ...

... are salivating for another 9/11-like 'event' as an excuse to ramp up the killing in the Middle East. War = profits. It's as simple as that. These people profit from human suffering and death, in any way they can.

[Az]

31. Possible explanation for the supposed surge in Iraq

Could be * pushing for more boots to send to the middle east just not to Iraq.

[haele]

32. Clinton used to do that when the US wanted a country to pay attention...

But everyone knew he would do it to put strength behind diplomatic activities. Clinton could usually be trusted not to actually use the military force he had show up unless the situation was totally in the crapper and bullets were already flying in the area. Clinton understood what Teddy Roosevelt meant about the political advantage to be seen to practice to "speak softly but carry a big stick".
I understand the current "Oh, shit..." I don't trust the ol' weeds fer brains not to pull the trigger and start something just to be able to yet again proclaim "I'm a wartime prezdent, heh, heh..."
Emulating the Gulf of Tonkin like some sort of sophomoric Risk move that is just his style - I'm sure he calls it "mixing it up" because he's bored and needs something to entertain him. He's the type to think it even better if Nukes were involved.

Haele

[aquart]

36. Any leader does it. It's called "a show of force."

It's a diplomatic tool in sane hands. It says, we disagree, and we have the power to back up our disagreement.

Right now, we do NOT have the power, so the show of force is only going to make us look ridiculous. Oh, and dangerously insane, too.

Bush is still partying like it's 1999.

[Old and In the Way]

33. There bastards are all in.

What do they have to lose? They know what's in store in 2007 and 2008. They are guilty of so many high crimes and misdomeaners, it would take a few hours to just read the indictment. When you are guilty of gross criminal negligence (9/11) and warcrimes, what's to stop you from starting another? Their hope is that another "event" might get them martial law and then they can declare war on us - Americans who are willing to hold these criminals accountable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. I actually look forwards to readying the indictment n\m

[GreenZoneLT]

35. Don't worry about it

Even W has to have Congress authorize a strike under the War Powers Act, except in retaliation against an attack (e.g., Libya in the '80s after the disco bombing, Afghanistan after Khobar Towers, etc.). If he was going to do anything, he'd already have a casus belli to complain about.

This is just meaningless saber rattling; the usual "talk loudly and carry a stick you're not going to use" Bush has been using so successfully against North Korea and Iran for six years now.

[northofdenali]

38. ...

:popcorn:

Oh shit about sums it up.

[annabanana]

40. They have to hurry up and attack... before a moderate

force among the populace has a chance to develop. This is friggen crazy. There was just an election in Iran that proves that there is a desire among the people for a new direction in that country. (I know, I know.. they can't because of the Mullahs. . )

There are people there who DON'T HATE AMERICA!!! Clearly the cabal can't let that go unimpeded. If we attack, any desire to have anything at all to do with America will dissappear in a blazing instant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2942190&mesg_id=2942190

[seemslikeadream]

41. Dollar dropped in Iran asset move (and more)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6190865.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse

http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_19564.shtml

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2006/8/23/23238/6451

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLJU5bDgo3T8&refer=home

[seemslikeadream]

45. Saddam Turns His Back on Greenbacks

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,998512,00.html

[spanone]

42. While worrying about 'surge' maybe Georgie intends to sucker punch Iran.

I put nothing past these thugs, nothing.

[BluePatriot]

43. I wonder if someone just decided to do research...

...regarding that speculation floating around about carrier group movements a while back? Or, is this different?

Anyway, am keeping an eye on the region regardless...just have a sense of creeping dread about the whole thing.

[Norquist Nemesis]

44. Well, that's ONE new way forward to ditch Iraq

Iraq already told Bush that if we go to war with Iran, they will side with Iran.

[Dead_Parrot]

48. Hmmm.

"If the ruling clerical elite wants a head-on collision with a determined superpower, then that's their choice."

Score 5 point for guessing which is the clerical elite, and which is the superpower.
Score 10 point if you can convince me that you're right.

:)

[JNelson6563]

49. What is the latest on this?

:shrug:

[HuffleClaw]

50. maybe bush'll let us know at 10:00 during his surprise press conference?

[SpiralHawk]

51. "I has officially declared Armageddon against Evil Doers." - Commander AWOL

"Shrewd republicon cronies can surely find a way to make Massive oil and munitions war profits off of this."

- Commander AWOL

[lectrobyte]

52. What do you all think about Iran and the Dollar/Euro switch? Is that their

real threat to us?