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You think democracy is dead in OH? Get a load of PA!

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:28 AM
Original message
You think democracy is dead in OH? Get a load of PA!
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 02:01 AM by Bill Bored
They certify the Diebold DRE without the VVPAT because the VVPAT preserves the order of the votes cast on each machine. Secret ballot = no Diebold VVPAT. They won't allow the VVPAT in the state. But of course the paperless DREs are just fine.

The central count op scanner correctly read only Republican votes.

The precinct count scanner worked fine, but they don't certify either one because of -- you guessed it -- the Hursti hack!!! Nice going!

Now instead of paper ballots, they've got DREs that can't be audited.

<http://www.votetrustusa.org/pdfs/Pennsylvania/PA%20SOC%... >

Then, a month later, they certify EVERYTHING except the precinct count scanner! Why not??? Hursti hack!
<http://www.votetrustusa.org/pdfs/Pennsylvania/PA%20SOC%... >

So in a state with straight party voting, which can be exploited about 20 different ways, esp. with paging DREs and Central Count scanners, they have paperless DREs, no precinct count scanners and a central count scanner that mysteriously only correctly counted Republican votes!

When I read these reports, I felt like I was gonna lose my lunch.

Bye bye PA! It's been nice having you in the Republic all these years but it looks like the party's over.

So who is this Secretary of the Commonwealth, Pedro A. Cortes, anyway and how come he certifies central count optical scanners that only count Republican votes? I guess it was just a glitch.
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Kalisiin Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. HOLY SHIT!!!
I'm a PA Resident. Do you mind if I cross-reference post this over in the Pennsylvania Forum??
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. No, I don't mind.
But if I were you I'd get some voter-verified paper ballot laws on the books ASAP because that's the only way you're going to stop this crap.
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Kalisiin Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Thanks
I cross-posted this in the Pennsylvania Forum.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. We have a PA Election Integrity Group and we need your help.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/votePA /
Please join us!

And please visit our main website at:
http://www.votePA.us
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Kalisiin Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. Application To Join Submitted, Letters Sent
I've done it all. I want to kick the Republican's ASS this year...and the only way to do that is to make sure we have fair election machines. We already know that if the vote is counted accurately, we will undoubtedly win.
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Please please please, spell out the terms you abbreviate so others...
can understand what you're talking about. One full spelling, typically at first reference, is adequate. Even commonly abbreviated terms -- CIA,FBI,DHS -- should be spelled out at first reference so people who speak English as a second language will understand. To do otherwise is, frankly, not only impolite but self-defeating: I follow all vote-fraud stories but couldn't follow yours because due to all the abbreviations I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about -- and I am not exactly dense, thank you.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Try this website:
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. Key to abbreviations
DRE = Direct Recording Electronics = TOUCHSCREENS with no auditability whatsoever

VVPAT = Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail = "toilet paper roll" printers attached to touchscreens which preserve the order of the vote
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Kalisiin Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Okay...
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 10:00 AM by Kalisiin
OH is the commonly accepted state abbreviation for the American state of Ohio. PA is the commonly accepted state abbreviation for the American state of Pennsylvania. VVPAT is the abbreviation for Voter-Verified Paper Audit Trail. did I miss anything?
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. No. But you could add VVTPR
Voter Verified Toilet Paper Roll :evilgrin:



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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. re: "The central count op scanner read only Republican votes."
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 01:46 AM by Wilms
Do you mean the Cumberland episode? (Perhaps not but people really need to know about it anyway.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Sorry, I edited that to say "correctly read only Republican ballots" nt
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 01:55 AM by Bill Bored
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. OK. Then what does "correctly read only Republican ballots" refer to?
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Diebold central count Op Scan. Read the links please.
And then decide: Would YOU have certified them?
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. You (ok, we) New Yawkers are in such a hurry.
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 02:25 AM by Wilms
OK, got it. It was during a test of the Central Scanner for a mock primary election where the repub totaled correctly, but the dems didn't, including different wrong totals on subsequent attempts.

Bottom page 6. It's a .pdf.
http://www.votetrustusa.org/pdfs/Pennsylvania/PA%20SOC%...

Hope you caught the subway. :evilgrin:

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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. That is quite bizarre.
It seems that having established that the machines were completely unreliable, they went for the machine whose reliability can't be checked.

Well, I suppose that's logical. There can't be any mismatch between count and audit if you can't audit the count.

So that's alright then.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Actually, it was the OpScan that blew the test.

If I read correctly, the DRE passed, and was certified.

Still, the Hursti Hack, it is alleged, can be done to a DRE. So it would have been reasonable for the PA SoS to de-certify the DRE's along with the OpScan.

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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yeah, that's what I meant.
The OpScan blew it (but would have been checkable) so they go for one they can't check.

Like buying a boiler without a safety valve, because the one with the safety valve seemed to overheat.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yes. I agree. Conditionally.

Like, what are PA's auditing and recount rules worth?

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Who is this Secretary of the Commonwealth, Pedro A. Cortes, anyway


Secretary of the Commonwealth, Pedro A. Cortes
http://www.dos.state.pa.us/dos/cwp/view.asp?a=1120&q=44...


He is a Dem
http://www.politicsnationwide.com/profile.asp?ID=940


Got some high marks (along with GA's Cathy Cox, and NM's Rebecca Vigil-Giron) for "efforts to streamline the process for restoring voting rights to thousands of people with felony convictions by making registration information more easily accessible".
http://www.demos.org/page346.cfm


And he gave UniLect the boot.
http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_conten...


So, yeah. How come he certifies central count optical scanners that only count Republican votes? :shrug:
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. Ohio . . . Florida . . . Pennsylvania . . . seems that BushCo will . . .
easily have enough states in their proverbial pocket come election time to ensure continued Republican dominance of both the Congress and the presidency . . . they're setting the table now in states from coast to coast, and they'll serve the meal come Election Day . . .
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. What happened with these lawsuits?
Westmoreland County PA: lawsuit heads to Commonwealth Court
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And Bucks County?
Lawsuit aimed at electronic voting
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/pe...

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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Westmoreland County UPDATE HERE. (It is in Commonwealth Court.)
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R n/t
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
16. k&r
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's going to be a long hard fight--with so many corrupt Democratic
election officials, and little or no help from the Democratic Party leadership.* But please remind yourselves that the election reform movement is still in its infancy, compared to other civil rights movements, that a government with so little popular support cannot continue--it will fail--and that we still have a lot of public education to do.

Most people are savvy about Bush and his lies and other evils, and do not support him or any of his policies (opposition to Bush and Bush polices about 60% or higher, across the board, all issues, all polls, over several years, and including 60% or more disapproval of Bush/Cheney as prez and vp over the last year), but they are not savvy about, a) the ILLUSION that corporate media creates that we, the majority progressives, are in the minority (very demoralizing and disempowering to people), and b) the control of our election system by rightwing fanatics (i.e., ES&S, Howard Ahmanson, the Chalcedon Foundation--horrid stuff, and of course its brethren at Diebold).

It's hard for people to suddenly doubt everything--all the media, voting, democracy, our country's leadership, the Democrats. But that's what you must have the capability of doing, to be able to understand the election system and how invalid it is, and how much it has screwed us over. And word of mouth takes time, even supplemented by the internet (which the Bushites are now trying to get their vampire teeth into--with their spying apparatus).

I'm sure we will win, eventually--because our cause is so righteous and so clear, and because of the thin basis of support the Bushites have. They really cannot govern us (the great progressive majority). We are too many.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. PLEASE know that MANY of those so-called "Democratic" election officials
are merely rethugs in Dem clothing.

In Ohio (2004), rethugs often required employees to be registered as Dems.
Even the Chair of the Ohio Democratic Party had been a life-long rethug.

... But we both reach the same conclusion: it's important to stay aware and be prepared to doubt.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
25. .
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. Another PA Election Integrity Group
Keystone staters, please sign here!:
http://www.coalitionforvotingintegrity.com /

They're suing Cortes too!
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Here's the lawsuit info. VERY good to hear...note my bolding.


Coalition for Voting Integrity files lawsuit against Pedro Cortes, Secretary of the Commonwealth

Press Release, January 18, 2006

Doylestown, PA, Jan. 18, 2006 The Coalition for Voting Integrity, and its co-founders Mary Ann Gould and Ruth Matheny, filed a lawsuit today against Pedro Cortes, Secretary of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The Complaint alleges that Cortes erroneously discounted lever voting systems, applied inconsistent certification standards to the voting systems being reviewed for Pennsylvania, and that the integrity, security and proof of the voters ballots are not being sufficiently considered to satisfy United States and Pennsylvania constitutional standards.

snip

The complaint alleges that Cortes is applying glaringly inconsistent certification standards to the alternative voting systems being considered. He has no established, written certification standards to apply to all systems. After officially certifying several touchscreen voting systems, Cortes then introduced the concept of hacking to the issue. He used this concept to specifically exclude an optical scanning system, based on a report that votes could be manipulated. There is overwhelming evidence of major security flaws in touchscreen systems acknowledged in a September 2005 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report .

snip

http://mysite.verizon.net/resq4lzq/cvi/id127.html


http://mysite.verizon.net/resq4lzq/cvi/id127.html

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. OK, I guess we'll keep them in the Republic a bit longer then. nt
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
31. Uh, where's our Dem Governor?????????????
I hate this shit...where is the Democratic Governor, legislature?

RECOMMENDED.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. the state legislature is controlled by the GOP
they aren't going to say shit...
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Got it, that explains a lot. Thanks. n/t
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. He doesn't recognize the problem, and most of the PA Dems don't either.
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 07:23 AM by demodonkey
Rendell has told activists that the "buttons" work fine in Philly (they use the horrible, ancient Danaher 1242) but our Gov and all other Dems in PA who ignore this issue do so at the peril of their elected jobs and their party.

Philadelphia's desire to hold on to their Danaher machines (and use their HAVA money to reimburse themselves for them) is creating a backlash against VVPR and our two wonderful bills, HB 2000 and SB 977, in the whole state.

In the meantime, (with Philly's blessing, IMHO) ES&S and other characters are moving in to the other areas and pushing paperless DREs over Optical Scan or even systems like AccuPoll that do produce a decent voter verified paper.

FMI visit our website:
http://www.votePA.us

And PA people please be sure to sign (!):
http://www.congressweb.com/cweb4/index.cfm?orgcode=VTUS...
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. kick
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