Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

How to STEAL an Election -- for real!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 02:47 AM
Original message
How to STEAL an Election -- for real!
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 02:58 AM by Bill Bored
This was called to my attention by Wilms, but I've been talking about it on and off for months now -- ever since I read my first Diebold GEMS User Guide.

Here is how you rig an election, even though they apparently had voter-verified paper ballots -- and it wasn't even Diebold!

Read it, link to it, email it, kick this thread, nominate it, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

HELP END THE MADNESS!


<http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2005/11/11/news/news... >

The Republican was voted for by all Democrats who chose the straight ticket option for their party, unbeknownst to the voters. The explanation by this reporter is clear, unlike some others who've written about this and unlike some of our leaders both inside and outside the election reform movement.

Thank him for this informative story!
jhilton@cumberlink.com

He wrote: "Both candidates party affiliations were listed correctly on the ballots used by voters." Proving that even voter-verified paper ballots don't mean shit unless they are audited or recounted by hand.

Unlike the hack we've seen on TV, in this real-world case, the precinct totals would have matched the central tabulator totals. And no one had to take apart any memory cards or reinvent the wheel to make this happen. It's just a feature of the software -- your tax dollars at work.

Now this is just a local judges' race in some place called Cumberland County, PA. But imagine if exactly the same thing happened in just the right counties in a few swing states to select Shrub in 2004, or even in 2000.

Somehow, this one was caught; the paper ballots were recounted. But for every one of these that are caught, there are probably a dozen more that aren't.

SO WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Take heart. Ken Melhman (sp?) was completely demoralized
on "Meet the Press" this weekend. Listening, I thought I was having an acid flashback.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Well perhaps this story will cheer him up.
After all, if they're unpopular, they can just steal elections now!

Happy days are here again Ken!

(Maybe he just didn't get the memo.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Maybe he's a method actor. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. We'll have to watch what happens here.
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 03:28 AM by Carolab
They still need to count the provisionals.

But you're right:

"However, a programming error by the countys ES&S voting machines awarded all votes by Democrats casting a straight-ticket ballot to Keating. The problem involved a software coding error in which Keatings political affiliation was mislabeled as Democrat.

Straight-ticket Republican votes were not awarded to either candidate. So the hand recount subtracted straight-ticket Democrat votes from Keatings total and added straight-ticket Republican votes. Meanwhile, Rhoades gained straight-ticket Democrat votes."

What I wonder about is this:

"County officials rechecked all other candidate races and confirmed that the error is limited to the Carlisle-area magisterial district judge race."

How did they "recheck"? Did they hand-count these too? Or did they check the software? And if so, how? Did they call in ES&S techs to do it, since it is considered "proprietary"?

And was the software-coding error in the machines themselves? Or in the central tabulator? These were scanners. How do we know that memory cards were not "misprogrammed"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think they are using the term "programming" rather loosely
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 04:09 AM by Boo Boo
in this piece. This really sounds like a data entry error. They probably just needed to check all the ballot data to make sure that the candidates were entered with the correct party affiliation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I think you are correct.
But it shows how this sort of thing can be exploited and abused to favor one candidate over another, and that's the point.

They should start printing these ballot definition files on the sides of milk cartons! After all, they are missing and exploited right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. They or their VENDOR probably checked the ballot definition programming.
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 12:05 PM by Bill Bored
There is nothing proprietary about this part of the application, or at least there shouldn't be. You have to be able to view it to set up the election. Now, BoEs may be reluctant to release it to the public, but as far as I know, this is not considered a trade secret. This IS THE ELECTION! What you see on the screens or the paper ballots is meaningless.

As far as memory cards...that's what this exploit does -- it misprograms them! It's usually done from the tabulator (server) side before the election and then propagated to every machine in the jurisdiction. Otherwise, the problem would only exist in one precinct. With Diebold, it's just a point and click sort of thing. I'd assume ES&S is similar.

Once again, these are not just tabulators -- they're Election Management Systems! (Or in this case mis-management systems!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. k-n-r-! Thanks BB! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. kick and recommend. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. The outrage is there, but was instantly replaced by MTV or another thought
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 11:45 AM by Land Shark
For explanation of what i mean see this thread:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Yes, I hear Aruba is a popular vacation destination for the MSM. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bill, can you cross post in GD politics? I've found this kind of thing
gets a lot more hits there and it helps to spread the word so we aren't just preaching to the choir.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Feel free to do so. We should cross-post this to every blog on the Net! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. cross post to blogs--
I think we need a master list- On a new thread
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm outraged that
the public was allowed to look at the proprietary software of a voting machine company :sarcasm:. Next thing you know, they'll want to do this in national elections as well. Before too long, the voting machine companies will have no rights at all, and then how will our votes be counted?

So, do you think that this information can be used to get us a fair recount in Ohio?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Ohio??? They have elections there?
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 10:46 PM by Bill Bored
Compared to Ohio, this is a walk in the park!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poet Lariat Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Until this is resolved...they can trump any fight on any front.
Not that I'm stopping any fights on any fronts. We need another Cindy Sheehan of election reform to bring this into the MSM selective spotlight. My guesstimate count for those who could "qualify" for this position (based on their misappropriated vote), numbers in the 10's or even 100's of thousands. Finding people with her guts makes the numbers go way down...(exception for all good DU'ers of course)

Thx Bill Bored
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. Was it stolen? Or an honest mistake?
Whatever, it is the smoking gun that we have been searching for. The article says it was a simple programming error.

Well now, if a simple error can throw an election, create havoc for liberty, truth and freedom, (in a judge's election to boot!) then we have all the proof we need that elections can NOT be run using a machine so easily Errorized.TM

If it were stolen then the programming error was not an error but made to appear as an error. The programmer would have simply eliminated the one small correct section of code and made the election be miscounted and the intent to throw the election to one of the candidates hidden behind a simple error.

If it were an honest mistake then it is simple proof that we can't have any confidence in an election in which 70% of the vote was counted by similar types of machines.

Therefore the conclusion must be that the 2004 election was incorrect, quite possibly stolen, and undeniably questionable. There is reasonable doubt about who really received the most votes in any 2004 election.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Lots of votes were lost by Dems on straight party voting in several states
So why are people putting up with a system; and an election where its known that peoples votes weren't being counted in the way they intended them. Seems elections are a game controlled by those in power these days, with the results manipulated. Maybe democracy isn't possible given todays advanced technology that makes manipulation easy.


http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peggy Day Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. In Ohio, they rigged the machines that
were trying to get election reform for the better(5). IMO
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Why are people putting up with it?
Edited on Mon Nov-14-05 10:34 PM by Bill Bored
First of all, it's not being explained properly.

There is too much emphasis being placed on the security flaws, the hacking, the changing of totals on central tabulators, the Clint Curtises, the DiebThroats, and all the rest, and not nearly enough on what a single insider or small group of them can do, either accidentally or deliberately, using the "certified" off-the-shelf hardware and software already paid for with our tax dollars.

I'm not saying it's wrong to uncover or demonstrate security flaws or hacking, but when the system already facilitates cheating without such sophisticated tampering, isn't it more important to show how this is possible?

Instead, we've had activists physically taking apart op scanners and reprogramming them and demonstrating vote switching in back end databases on TV while the exploits in this story (and worse!) could have been carried out by anyone with access to the system, without any computer expertise to speak of, and without detection except by the most stringent auditing of voter-verified paper ballots and/or ballot definition programming.

And by the way, Straight Party Voting is illegal in 33 states.
But all the machines can do it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Ellen at voters unite says the vendors make a TREMENDOUS
number of ballot programming errors. This is not often talked about; we mostly talk about rigging and hacking. What caused the initial infatuation with voting machines ANYWAY?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Vendors shouldn't even be doing this "programming!"
This programming IS the Election. If vendors are doing it, then the election has been privatized and should be subject to legal challenge. Just ask Land Shark.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. you are totally preaching to the choir, bill. My point was that IN
ADDITION to vulnerability to fraud, they are also extremely vulnerable to error and this is not even discussed. Even those who don't believe election theft is a problem ought to be able to relate to high error rates and no quality control. I can't see a single thing to recommend DREs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. Paper ballots NOW! Hand counts NOW!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. might be some dupes didnt get a chance to claen it up
Blogroll
http://www.agonist.org /
http://americablog.blogspot.com
http://www.annatopia.com /
http://www.archpundit.com /
http://www.bartcop.com
http://www.blogpulse.com
http://atrios.blogspot.com /
http://www.bagnewsnotes.com /
http://www.boomantribune.com /
http://www.bopnews.com "
http://bodyandsoul.typepad.com
http://www.burntorangereport.com
http://www.juancole.com
http://coloradoluis.typepad.com
http://dir.salon.com/topics/joe_conason
http://www.crooksandliars.com
http://dcmediagirl.com
http://www.dfakc.org
http://www.j-bradford-delong.net
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com
http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com
http://www.gadflyer.com
http://g10.blogspot.com /
http://icasualties.org "
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com
http://kidoaklandblog.blogspot.com
http://www.leanleft.com
http://www.leftinthewest.com
http://www.liberaloasis.com
http://liberalstreetfighter.com
http://majikthise.typepad.com
http://margaretcho.com/blog/blog.htm
http://www.maxspeak.org/mt
http://www.myleftwing.com "
http://www.nathannewman.org/log
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com
http://www.offthekuff.com/mt
http://www.pacificviews.org
http://www.pandagon.net
http://politicalwire.com
http://rittenhouse.blogspot.com
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com
http://seeingtheforest.com
http://xnerg.blogspot.com
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com
http://www.swingstateproject.com
http://www.talkleft.com
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com
http://www.prospect.org/weblog
http://tbogg.blogspot.com
http://www.thismodernworld.com
http://www.unbossed.com
http://www.jameswolcott.com

Dems and Allies
http://www.fromtheroots.org ">From the Roots</a> (DSCC)
http://www.democrats.org/blog ">Kicking Ass</a> (DNC)<br />
http://blog.dccc.org /">The Stakeholder</a> (DCCC)<br />
http://www.ndnblog.org /">NDN Blog</a></p>

http://www.dfakc.org




http://www.cannonfire.blogspot.com
http://www.canofun.com/blog/default.asp
http://www.crooksandliars.com
http://www.dailykos.com
http://www.democrats.org/blog
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com
http://www.dailyhowler.com
http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyr ...
http://gadflyer.com
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
http://www.isthatlegal.org
http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/Index.htm ...
http://www.juancole.com
http://www.liberaloasis.com
http://mediamatters.org
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870
http://www.mydd.com
http://www.mysterypollster.com
http://www.neuralgourmet.com
http://www.newdonkey.com
http://www.oliverwillis.com
http://oracknows.blogspot.com
http://www.pandagon.net
http://pharyngula.org
http://politicalwire.com
http://www.radioleft.com
http://www.rawstory.com
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com (contains GRAPHIC language)
http://www.swingstateproject.com
http://www.theleftcoaster.com
http://www.thinkprogress.org
http://www.thismodernworld.com
http://www.tpmcafe.com
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com
http://www.warandpiece.com
http://www.comearmageddon.blogspot.com

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KatieB Donating Member (431 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Same thing happened in Wayne County, NC with ES&S in November 2002
Guess the Company just has not figured out all those bugs....
I sentthis to VotersUnite.org They are keeping track by state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep 16th 2014, 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC