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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:56 PM
Original message
Obama's unusual transition: Already a co-president
Source: McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON America has never seen anything quite like this: The president and president-elect acting like co-presidents, consulting and cooperating on the day's biggest crises.

"It's pretty unusual," said George Edwards, a presidential expert at Texas A&M University, in College Station.

What Princeton University professor Julian Zelizer calls "the split-screen presidency" is the result of several historic forces converging this fall: . . .

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/56399.html



The extraordinary conclusion to the article:

"It's not unusual for the president-elect to have news conferences, but in an economic crisis, it's particularly important that you give people confidence," Edwards said.

Bush has his own motivations.

"To a large degree, Bush's legacy is in the hands of Barack Obama," said Tim Blessing, the director of the presidential performance study at Alvernia University in Reading, Pa. The more they're seen working together, the more Bush could get some credit for any Obama successes next year.



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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. George W. Bush is finally getting his on-the-job training. n/t
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sure seems that way, doesn't it? Bush already seems a bad memory, though he will likely continue
moving inept, ideologue cronies into Civil Service positions as long as he can. The Last Dance on his trashing of the federal bureaucracy.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Still waiting for his big pardons.
"I pardon Uncle Dick and Turdblossom and I double dog pardon my own self. Heh heh heh."

Here's an important tip, though. The President does not have authority over the War Crimes tribunal at the Hague. He can't pardon himself from that.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. maybe bush should get a govt post - how bout ambassador to...afghanistan or iraq? nt
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I only want him and the entire Bush family out of our lives, forever.
I fear the infestation will continue with Jeb and others.

Enough. Begone. Enjoy your wealth and privilege, and leave this nation alone.

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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. At this rate, Obama is heir to the same fortune
I haven't seen him do anything that suggests a change in the existing policies at all.

He's appointed familiar insiders.

He's backpedaled on campaign promises.

He's acquiesced on bail-outs for Wall Street.

Same old, same old bullshit.

He lied.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. What?
He's not even in office yet what the hell..
Calm down.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Pathetic.
You are free to find another site on which to post.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. is there a name for your group?
a website or something?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Then I guess I'm batshit insane
Because except for the color of his skin, Obama is turning into just another politician, who threw out all kinds of wondrous promises to sucker the voters into electing him, and within a fortnight has already started to go back on those lovely promises. Maybe he's even worse, because he knew how desperate we were and how eager we were to put our trust in him.

His economic team is nothing but recycled Greenspan believers. Greenspan and Rubin and Phil "King of Deregulation" Gramm are the ones who got our economy into its present mess.

He's already let it be leaked that he might not roll back the tax breaks granted to the super wealthy because it might not be good for the economy. Excuse me?????????????

He's said nothing about the utter and complete and total lack of transparency in the CitiGroup bailout, while still demanding that GM kowtow. So much for Main Street over Wall Street.

Where's his outrage over the Wachovia exec severance lucre?

Where are the new faces in his cabinet? Clinton? Richardson? Geithner? Is he gonna keep Gates?

Where's the "change"? It looks like more of the same to me. More status quo. More can't change horses in midstream. More delay on the war. More delay on this. Leave don't ask, don't tell alone. More "christian" morality. What's next? Leave the Hyde amendment in place? Reverse Roe? Halt stem cell research indefinitely?

I wouldn't put any of it past him.

And we were so gullible.


Tansy Gold
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It is good, yet sad
to find someone on this board that feels like I do and for the same reasons.

Thanks for your post, Tansy Gold!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Stardust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. Tansy Gold, I'm afraid you're gonna be flamed, but I hafta say, he worries
the shit out of me. When I heard about the hinted-at un-repeal of the tax cuts, I felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach. Maybe it won't happen, but I've got a real bad feeling. I'm sure I'll be accused of being a concern troll...so be it.

I keep hoping that something will happen during this transition that restores the hope we were all so desperate for. We shall see...
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. I've been flamed before, and by better flamers than present company.
If I were really a pro-Hillary, anti-Obama person, I ought to be cheering on the appointment of so many Clinton carry-overs. I'm not. I'm appalled.

And if I were anti-Obama, I'd be prefacing my criticisms with "I Told You So," which I'm also not doing. I honestly believed he meant what he said during the campaign, the whole "Change" thing, which now apparently means changing the faces but not so much the policies.

While I don't think a blank check to GM is the answer to the auto industry woes, I think blank checks to the Wall Street firms is about as wrong a response as there can be. Yet I hear not a peep from the Obama economic team. not a peep. Oh, wait, they're all tied to Wall Street. Why would they peep?

And why are there leaks about not repealing the tax cuts for the aristos? Wasn't this like a cornerstone of the Obama campaign? Wasn't this is thing that made Joe the Plumber so pathetic? And isn't it starting to look like the most crass of campaign lies?

Oh, I know, there will be plenty on DU who are loyal supporters of the president elect, who will support him through thick and thin. There are those who will caution that we wait until he's actually in office and actually has the power to do things.

And I know many of them will label me a concern troll, I who have been here since 2002 as Tansy Gold and since before that under another name. I don't care. I'm going to speak out.

We supported and we voted for Barach Obama because we thought he was different. We thought he was honest and straightforward and meant what he said. We trusted in his sincerity. We looked foward to a future that would bring about change for the better. So far all we're hearing are familiar names and even more familiar broken promises.

George W. Bush is on his way out. He is effectively reduced to presidential pardons, lighting the Christmas tree, sparing a turkey or two, and signing evil little regulations into law. His cabinet is being replaced and the new team is being transitioned in. Obama is president elect but he is also president in waiting, being briefed and prepared to take over. What we're seeing now is the prelude to his presidency, and so far, it isn't living up to the billing.

Tansy Gold
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Stardust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I foolishly thought the honeymoon would last forever. My dreams are crashing
with lightning speed. Looks like DU will have a post-election raison d'etre after all.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. The cornerstone to Obama's campaign was tax cut to 95% of the working middle class......
and he hasn't changed his mind on that.

The Bush tax cuts will expire quicker than it would take Pres. Obama to get a bill through congress and make it pass. Why spend political capital and invite a fight on something that is going to happen anyway, when there are so many other things to do?

Obama + Let Bush Tax cut expire = efficient pragmatism and the conservation of energy and political capital better spent elsewhere.

His other cornerstones is to get us out of Iraq in 16 months, a green job economy and education.

He talked about GM, and like you said that he doesn't believe that they should get a Blank Check.

In reference to the Bank Bail outs, he has had plenty to say about them. Him screaming about a done deal after it has been done (was done on Sunday) ain't gonna help us, the Stock Market, or the economy. He's not there to wag his finger......that isn't what he was elected to do.

You said that Obama lied. I say that you are lying about Obama.

As an Accountant, I will only say that the disclaimer letter that accompanies Financial Statements always warns.....this information not for those who are not informed about such matters. I consider you uninformed, jumping to false conclusions, and sliming our new President in the process.

He's not the magic Negro, and he's not even sworn in yet.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
50. Your idea of what he should do scares me.
He is trying to keep our economy from crashing but you seem to have no interest in that.

I'm glad he's doing what he is doing. He sure is adding to my confidence in him.

I'm still pissed about Hillary as SOS, but his economic policies are halfway making up for it.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. What he's doing is installing many of the people RESPONSIBLE
for the problems with the economy and charging them with fixing what they broke.

That's a real confidence booster, yep, yep, you betcha.

And I have a whole lot of interest in keeping the economy from crashing, but I don't agree with what Obama is doing toward that end. If he were bringing in people who came from a different economic tradition, I'd consider him to be sticking with his mantra of change. But he's bringing in long-time insiders with ties to the worst collapse-inducing policies.

Obviously, you have a different opinion. <aybe you're still basking in the glow of the victory and not ready to begin a hard critical analysis of what is actually being done. Not what's being SAID or what was said two weeks or two months ago.

During the confirmation hearings for Gonzalez and Alito and Roberts and a host of other boooosh appointees, we all knew what was going to happen. We screamed and screamed at the Dem "leadership" for caving in on these horrendous appointments. We saw the lies that were being said, the empty promises that were made about bi-partisanship and non-partisanship, and we knew that they were lies and we weren't afraid to say so. We watched Pelosi and Reid take impeachment off the table and we knew what was coming.

Why then are there calls to lay off any criticism of Obama? He's not jesus fucking christ, for crying out loud. He's not perfect. And if I have a problem with some of his appointees, I think I have a right to express those misgivings here on Democratic Underground. I'd prefer to do so without being labeled batshit crazy, but I can deal with that if need be.

Obama made a big deal about his tax plans regarding those who make over $250,000 a year and those who make less. So many of us have said that a progressive income tax, one that puts more of a burden on those with higher incomes, is an absolute necessity to fixing the economy. Reagan's "trickle down" economics, beloved by Grover Norquist and his anti-tax ilk, DON'T WORK. Delaying the repeal of boooosh's tax cuts will only exacerbate the current problem. We knew this during the campaign, so why are some of us suddenly going in the opposite direction? Isn't the definition of insane, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Cutting taxes on the wealthy didn't work to fix the economy for the middle class in 1980 and it won't work in 2009. So why is Obama reneging on this cornerstone of his campaign? Why? Does he all of a sudden think, in contrast to what he said a few weeks ago, that if we continue to cut taxes on the rich, the economy will miraculously recover? It didn't under Reagan. . . .so isn't Obama's policy, or at least the kind of policy promulgated by his economic team in previous lifetimes, same old, same old, and what "changed" result can we expect?

If what he's trying to do is keep the stock market from crashing, he's doing little to help the economy. The market and the economy are two different things, and they've become more and more divorced from each other as a direct result of policies implemented by Greenspan, Gramm, and their subordinates, including Robert Rubin and Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner. They're all great supporters of The Markets, but not so much The Economy.

I generally don't go around calling fellow DUers batshit crazy or abysmally uninformed. I might hint that a little bit of self-education would be a worthwhile pursuit, but I tend to avoid direct insults. I think I'll stick to that policy, at least for now.



At least for now,


Tansy Gold
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Geithner was warning about all this stuff years ago.
I don't know why you hold him responsible. If anyone is at fault, it is Bob Rubin. Rubin ruined Citi too by insisting they do more credit derivatives.

And of course, Bill Clinton played a big part by basking in deregulation and also Andrew Cuomo who could have but didn't stop predatory lending when he was at HUD.

Lastly, if you think increasing taxes 3 percentage points on the top bracket for an extra year will save us I think you are crazy. In the end, all the Bush taxes will lapse and we are back to where we were 8 years ago.




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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Geithner's ties are to the Fed, to Rubin, to Summers
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/22/us/politics/22policy....

there are a lot of people who have been "warning" of collapses and problems, but far more important is what they propose as solutions.

Geithner has been working with Bernanke and Paulson on the current spate of bailouts. As head of the NY Fed, he has close ties to Wall Street. As a protege of sorts to Rubin -- and Rubin himself is now an Obama appointee -- there are additional ties to Citi. Geithner also has ties to Summers. And since both were Treas Secy under Clinton, with the ties to Gramm and repeal of Glass Steagall, Geithner is hardly free of taint.

Insiders, insiders, insiders all.

Change? where? I don't see any change. . . . .

As for the 3% tax increase, it isn't so much the AMOUNT of the increase as it is that there would have been one. The mere announcement of Geithner's appointment as Treasury Sec'y is given credit for boosting the stock market two days in a row. Has to be merely psychological effect, since he hasn't proposed let alone implemented any policies. So what kind of psychological effect could the imposition of a 3% tax hike have on the millions of tax payers who see Obama following through on a big campaign promise? And likewise, what kind of psychological effect would the FAILURE to implement that hike have? What kind of ammunition will it give the opposition, regardless how weak, fractured, and demoralized the opposition may be at the present time? Obama becomes a flip-flopper, a liar. No better than booosh.

How many voters were reluctant, for whatever reasons including but not limited to simple racism, to vote for Obama but did so because they were finally persuaded that he was going to act in their best economic interest? How much support will his reneging on that promise cost him?


It has already cost him




Tansy Gold

Tansy Gold
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. You are being unreasonable, in my opinion.......and sliming Obama needlessly.
Edited on Tue Nov-25-08 02:11 AM by FrenchieCat
and since you were a Clinton supporter at one point, I'm not quite sure of why you are so outraged at Clinton's economic policies and those who ran it at this point.

It is like you are blaming Rubin and anyone associated with him for having designed an airplane that crashed after a decade of successful flight service, without questioning the pilot, the maintenance crew or the age of the plane.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Having been a Clinton supporter at one time does not mean
I found no fault with her or with her husband.

I've said elsewhere that

A. I supported Obama enthusiastically and without reservation when he became the nominee.

B. That my support of Clinton included reservations about her insider status and close ties to an administration that had contributed much toward the ultimate economic chaos.


Just because I was at one time a Clinton supporter does not mean I'm a PUMA (whatever the fuck that is), and the loathing sometimes shown here toward anyone who breathes a word of support for her is occasionally overwhelming.

For all the chatter in the media, including the comments in the OP of this thread, one would think booosh had abdicated and Obama ascended to the throne twelve days ago. If that were the case, why was the Citi deal put through if Obama didn't "approve" of it with his, pardon the pun, Rubinesque economic team virtually in place? Did he or didn't he approve? Was he or wasn't he involved?

The Clinton economic prosperity was built on a solid foundation established over a period of 40 years and that had already begun to deteriorate via the policies of the REagan and booosh 1 terms: erosion of union bargaining power, lowering of upper tier taxes, etc. Clinton's economic legacy was NAFTA, WTO/GATT, and repeal of Glass-Steagall, all of which directly set the stage for the soaring Dow, Enron, massive outsourcing, easy and destructive credit, and so on. Bill Clinton did much that was not progressive, and those who turn a blind eye to it are foolish. The tech bubble was on his watch, and the houses that were built and sold in 2002 in El Mirage, Arizona, that first alerted me to the potential for a massive housing bubble were in developments planned and plotted in 1998 and 1999. Yes, these were local and state authorities, but the developers were companies that were allowed to expand and the mortgage brokers were companies that were allowed to develope BECAUSE OF Clinton era economic policies.

Obama promised much. He came into the campaign with far less experience than the other candidates and therefore far less of a political record to run on, whether good or bad. His oratory and his message carried him. That he is now assembling an administration that might have been designed by Bill and Hillary Clinton is more than a bit ironic. That he now appears to be reneging on some of his cornerstone campaign promises, and doing so even before taking the oath of office, makes those of us who were never quite blinded by his radiance perhaps a bit more easily critical.

I saw Obama's election as inspiring. I have watched the videos and looked at the compilations of photographs with a lumpin my throat and tears on my cheeks. I saw the mood in this country and around the world changed in a twinkling, and I hoped that more than just the mood would also change.

But I am a cautious person who reacts viscerally when my trust is betrayed. And my trust, once lost, is never easily regained.


Which is why I remain


Tansy Gold
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Then Bill Greider of The Nation is equally unreasonable
Edited on Tue Nov-25-08 06:13 PM by Tansy_Gold
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


edited to add this for those too lazy to check out the other thread:

Obama's Treasury Pick Has All the Wrong Ideas
By William Greider, TheNation.com. Posted November 25, 2008.

Timothy Geithner is an architect, and now an enabler, of the unfolding crisis.

A year ago, when Barack Obama said it was time to turn the page, his campaign declaration seemed to promise a fresh start for Washington. I, for one, failed to foresee Obama would turn the page backward. The president-elect's lineup for key governing positions has opted for continuity, not change. Virtually all of his leading appointments are restoring the Clinton presidency, only without Mr. Bill. In some important ways, Obama's selections seem designed to sustain the failing policies of George W. Bush.

This is not the last word and things are changing rapidly. But Obama's choices have begun to define him. His victory, it appears, was a triumph for the cautious center-right politics that has described the Democratic party for several decades. Those of us who expected more were duped, not so much by Obama but by our own wishful thinking.

Let us stipulate that these are all honorable people, smart and experienced veterans of Washington combat. But they represent the Democratic party that mainly sees itself as managerial -- making government work better. The long era of conservative dominance has taught them to keep their distance from big reform ideas that promise fundamental change of the system. Their operating style is incremental and cautiously practical. They conscientiously avoid (or actively block) propositions that sound too liberal or radical. Alas, Obama is coming to power at a critical moment when incrementalism is irrelevant. The system is in collapse. Financial chaos won't wait for patient deliberations.

Events have confronted Obama with a fearful symmetry between past and present, illustrated by his choice of economic advisers. On Friday, we learned that Timothy Geithner, president of the New York Federal Reserve, would become his new treasury secretary and Larry Summers, who held the same position in the Clinton administration, would be the White House overseer of economic policy. On Monday, Geithner was busy executing the government's massive rescue of Citicorp -- the very banking behemoth that Geithner and Summers helped to create back in the Clinton years, along with Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan and Robert Rubin, Clinton's economics guru. Now Rubin is himself a Citicorp executive and his bank is now being saved by his old protege (Geithner) with the taxpayers' money.

<snip>


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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Like I said.......
Edited on Tue Nov-25-08 06:25 PM by FrenchieCat
You can feel that Obama has lied, and betrayed you in the cornerstone of his campaign, which he didn't....

It has little to do with The Nation's article in where the author states that he doesn't care much for Obama's SOT pick, BUT believes those who are now surprised were'nt paying attention....as he so states,

"Those of us who expected more were duped, not so much by Obama but by our own wishful thinking.

Let us stipulate that these are all honorable people, smart and experienced veterans of Washington combat."


What you say and what the Nation author says are not the same thing. I find Nation author to be more reasonable than you have been in your postings.

But you are free to feel as strongly as you do, if it helps you. I'm not you, and you are not me...and to each his own. I stronly support our current President Elect and you believe him to be a liar to took advantage of you. And so it goes. :shrug:
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. The familiar insiders you're talking about are from the administration that worked, not the Bush
administration of incompetents.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Rubin is a student of Greenspan and the rest
are students of Rubin.

Not everything Clinton did was good. Repeal of Glass-Steagall, orchestrated by Greenspan and Gramm while Rubin was Treasury Secy, directly led to the economic catastrophe we have now.

We do NOT need these people back at the economic helm.

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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. The repeal of Glass-Steagall got us into this mess.
And I wonder if Rubin's wunderkinds are going to be able to get us out.

It actually may already be too late for us to disentangle ourselves from the corporatist mess. We may already be there and just not have realized it.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Trying to beat The Great Indiana Primary Fail, are ya? You're off to a strong start tiger!
:rofl:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Note: i REALLY hope they let your post stay, so that the other DU whiners....
Can see what their faux-Dissent-Is-Patriot!-Squawk!-Dissent-Is-Patriotic!-Squawk! about a guy who's unemployed PREDICTABLY leads to.

It would present a wonderful object lesson - which no-one would learn from, because we're Americans, dammit!

:rofl:
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. Are you ready to impeach?
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. HE'S NOT EVEN IN POWER YET!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Actually, "normal" DU Obama critics have declared that response forbidden.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 10:41 PM by BlooInBloo
Yes, I know.


EDIT: Clarified subject.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
57. Yet there it is and uncensored.
Did someone get their feelings hurt?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
59. Yeah! What a failure Obama's First Minus-27 Days have been!!
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Well said.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I forgot about young Pierce
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. Mars. (nt)
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. move over, Rover
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theoldman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Super cool shades.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Power abhors a vacuum, and Bush is pretty much an empty suit n/t
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. This was bound to happen
This was bound to happen. chimpo is completely overwhelmed at this point and President Cheney is busy in his bunker with several large industrial shredders. chimpo is hoping that he'll get credit for something that President Obama does before Jan 20.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. Eight years is a long time without a president n/t
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Obama cares more about the fate of the country than about his "legacy".
A nice contrast.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thank goodness, because it's obvious that Bush just wants to run out the clock
And Obama is well aware that we can't have that.
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. No, Bush wants to funnel Billions if not Trillions more into his cronnies pockets
before he bails.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. i think most of us
would be happy if the bushies just went away. sooner the better.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bush's legacy
He accomplished lots more than presidents who didn't serve two full terms; he combined the economic prowess of Hoover with the ethics of Harding and the honesty of Nixon.
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. not to mention many of the virtues of Hitler
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
62. C'mon, another Hitler comparison?
I always thought of Bush as more like Mussolini.
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ryanmuegge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. His presidency will mark the end of poverty as an academic phenomenon
It will soon be the new norm.

Several decades from now, he will also be seen as the president who curbed the population problem with his economic policies.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. Ouch! (nt)
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. "Hey Barack, can you give me a hand with this. I think it's broken..."
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. Bush's legacy was in his own hands. Remember, he was the
decider.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
28. Really, the only thing left to discover is that bush voted for Obama.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. For all the tin foil talk of Bush conduct a coup..
I have to give him credit for being graceful about the transition of power...the last few weeks have been Bush's best by far. Hopefully it holds out for the next 58 days.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
38. Haha, how perfect.
Bush, President for 8 years, needs lessons from Obama, 4.5 years ago was a State Senator.

Obama seems to have a knack for it. The young newbie is the most mature person in politics.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Obama is the adult and Shrub is the child
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #45
56. yeah did you hear what he said today?
Something to the effect that when they make a move, they will let Obama know...right. It's more likely the reverse. I don't see any moves being made--except maybe chimpy on his bikey workin' out.
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RollWithIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
40. Fuck Reagan, Obama is the real Great Communicator... I trust his judgement
I actually think it would be horrible right now if Obama was reaching out to find out everything he can about the problems going on right now.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
63. Reagan was never a great communicator.
He just sounded like one compared to Carter and Ford. The last eloquent President was Kennedy.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
42. Let's face it co-operation is good for unity and in turn Barack's security. I'm cool with it >
just speaking personally.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. It's certainly an interesting opening. I doubt I would have gone for it....
but (a) what the hell do I know? and (b) that doesn't mean it can't work.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
46. It's Teh Awesomez when DUers beat the big boys to a story!
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
60. Hope its not just to call it the Obama depression.
They'd love to effect rhetoric to blame it on Obama for years and years and years.
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