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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:41 AM
Original message
What I've learned at DU lately...
If Hillary points out that Obama would be vulnerable against McCain on the question of experience, she is endorsing McCain.
If Obama praises Ronald Reagan, the poster child of the team were trying to beat, for bringing accountability back to government, thats no big deal.

If Republicans vote for Obama its because he was able to convert them to our side.
If Republicans vote for Hillary, its because theyre trying to sabotage us.

If the media picks on Hillary, it shows how divisive and unpopular she is.
If the media picks on Obama, its because they are shilling for Hillary.

If Hillary supporters refuse to vote for Obama in the general, it shows they were never real Dems to begin with.
If Obama supporters refuse to vote for Clinton in the general, its because Hillary is so evil that their consciences simply wont let them.

If Hillary runs an ad that basically asks who do you want in charge during a crisis, its fear-mongering.
If Obama runs a Harry & Louise clone ad about how Hillarys healthcare plan will hurt fixed income seniors, its not fear-mongering.

Feel free to add your own!

(I wont deny there are double standards coming from some of the Hillary supporters too, and feel free to post those as well. But when it comes to vilifying the other side and having this my candidate can do no wrong attitude, I really think theres a lot more of that coming from the Obama side. From what I can see, most Hillary supporters on here are realistic about her flaws and weaknesses but we still think shes the better candidate. Honestly, before I came on DU and saw all the animosity, I thought Clinton/Obama would have made an unstoppable ticket. The great majority of us do not want to paint Obama as the Antichrist, were just sick of the hypocrisy. Were sick of some Obama supporters acting like Hillary is evil simply for trying to beat their guy in the primary -- and then accusing Hillary of entitlement. We resent Hillary being accused of using a scorched earth policy while ignoring the fact that the Obama campaign used phony charges of racism to demolish the African American base of Hillary and Bill -- whom you might recall was nicknamed our first black president because of the great relationship he had built with black voters over decades. And that was when Hillary was the likely nominee how did they expect her to recover from that in the general? And yet many Obama supporters still act like Obama is above it all. He's not the Antichrist, but he's a politician just as Hillary is, and he has flaws just as Hillary does -- both in his record and in his personality.)


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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. I hate posts like these.
They add nothing to the conversation.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think it adds more than most of the posts I see. (nt)
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. I think you misunderstand
What "Hnmnf" is thinking doesn't add to the conversation are the threads you are talking about in your OP(Original Post).

Welcome To DU Nine :hi: :toast:
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm afraid the anti-Hillary stuff has gone way overboard lately on DU
This will not serve us in the GE no matter who wins.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I think there is anti-hillary and Obama stuff that has gone overboard
You just notice the anti-hillary stuff more because his supporters make up 76% of DU
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. I know. Facts and truth add nothing to the conversation. n/t
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. I'm sure you do hate them....
they point out the hypocrisy of the Obama supporters. It's obvious to everyone but you guys.

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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not helpful to anyone
Sounds like something that rhymes with droll. I will give the benefit of doubt this time, but I'll be watching.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You must be joking
Troll? This post is practically the most civil on the entire page.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Nine, Everybody is called a troll at least once
Don't worry about it. Many times it's a troll calling everybody else a troll.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
45. Notice that Bonnie doesn't display her
personals...I wouldn't worry.

Welcome...a thoughtful post.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. I didn't know you
were the new troll catcher? With no profile, it's hard to tell who's the troll and who's the catcher, sometimes. You know how it is. Well. Wow! Nice to meet you, BanzaiBonnie. Thanks for doing such a good job. Keep up the good watching. And a belated welcome to DU.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. Is that a threat?
You do know it is against the rules to call someone a troll or threaten to stalk them, don't you?
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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. great post, thank you! nt
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Good post ... you nailed it. n/t
:kick:
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southern_dem Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. Trust me
I had just started on the board when the whole Reagan thing started and the pounding Obama took over it was deafening.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. You are absolutely right. n/t
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. Your parenthetical is reasonable, but there are several Hillary supporters here who aren't.
I'd say it's pretty even. After all, DU is nothing if not full of passionate people convinced of their own righteousness. :) Welcome.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you :) (nt)
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. OK
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
44. Great! Thanks for the links. n/t
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AGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
15. Obama was basically implying that Hillary and McCain is the same in his speech today , no outrage
on Du.

Not suprised.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
16. Welcome to DU! But it did sound to me like she was comparing McCain favorably to Obama.
It's gonna take a while for me to forgive her for that one. I would say the same if Obama had done that to HRC. And I didn't like his Reagan comment on iota either and I make no excuses for it. It almost made me vote for her.
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. excellent!
you've illustrated the double standard so beautifully. i can't even listen to progressive radio anymore. my favs until the last few months - randi rhodes, stephanie miller and ed schultz - have become horribly negative against hillary. i finally said enough and turned them off. i don't have cable tv, but i've seen clips here and there and the double standard is astounding. obamarama walks on water, whereas hillary is a floating turd. unreal. it's so typically sexist AND racist. SHE can't do anything right while the sexist slurs are bandied about like crazy, and HE can't do anything wrong because if you dare suggest it, YOU'RE a racist. or hillary's a racist. or bill's a racist. oh, give me a break.

the most recent obamarama talking points this morning about hillary's comments regarding her and mc cain's experience vs obama's speech are another perfect example. it's divisive to the party. oh, how DARE she! horrible... wicked... shameless... rovian... the very people pushing this - olberman, rhodes, miller and schultz to name four that i can think of this moment - know very well politicians have about 5 seconds to make a point and that everything is about sound bites. i get what she's trying to say in a sound bite - why don't they? i'll tell you why not... because they have their marching orders. bash hillary at all costs. sickening. and besides, that, if people are that thin-skinned then i've got news for you when the repukes come gunning for whoever the dems nominate. i want a fighter. i was so disappointed in edwards dropping out because i wanted him to fight for the right to fight for me - and he didn't. i want a president who's been knocked down over and over and refuses to lay down. i don't want a fluff piece who can't take the heat of a little itty bitty sound bite or any criticism whatsoever. based on the reactions of the obamites, you people would have keeled over after 10 days into hillary's time in the white house - and she lived through 8 years of it and then her years as a senator. when obama gets a spine, and his supporters get one as well, i'll reconsider my position - until then... go hillary!!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. It's time for Clinton and Obama to turn their sights on Republicans.
I'm seeing attacks on Dems from them, and kisses blown to the Repubs who have striven mightily to dig America into a deep shithole.

Who gives a shit if a tough fighter is fighting their own? What in hell is the value of that?
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. well...
that's where we differ. i don't necessarily see the bloodbath that's being described on a daily basis. it's a little scrappy, but c'mon... we'll have plenty of time to mend fences. why is it that the girls always have to play nice or risk being called a bitch or dirty, but the boys can "pull hair, kick, slug" and use all sorts of other distasteful tactics (passive aggressive sexist remarks, for example) with nary a comment? i truly think this line of bull that hillary is playing dirty is just that - bull.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. President Clinton is attacking Dems too.
Edited on Wed Mar-05-08 03:14 AM by Kurovski
And golfing with GHW Bush. He'd instill a little more confidence if he'd go build a few houses with Carter.

The old time politics just don't appeal to the young'uns. that's a fact. They don't care what's between the legs when it comes to that. I'm not sure your theory has much merit because younger people are used to, and accept females being tough and such.

Edit: The time for fighting each other is done. The Repubs have their nominee. It's time for both OB & HRC to be challenging McCain, Then we can see who the best "fighter" is against the opposition.
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. look...
i'm still seething about bill and george getting all cozy. pisses the holy hell outta me. seriously. i do have some issues about bill. but when i voted for bill, it wasn't because he was married to hillary and i won't be voting for her or not because she's married to bill.

that being said...

there are two strong dem candidates running for the nomination. if i were running against obama i'd make damn sure everyone knew why i was different from him. i wouldn't want to give the voters any reason to choose him over me if i could help it. so... i'm not going to go for the "let's make nice for the party." there will be plenty of time to deal with mc cain and heal whatever wounds have been inflicted. politics are ugly. and once the sites are set on mc cain it's going to get so ugly, he won't have a chance. so stop worrying. you people are acting like mccain is superman when in reality... well, c'mon won't you? that's the best the repukes could do. hahahahahahahahaha. trust me. i'm not worried. the man's old and batshit crazy. and a liar. and an adulterer. and a hypocritical ASSHOLE. and a flip flopper. he's so easy.

give 'em hell, hillary!!!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. I'm just going to post here so no one mistakes my post below
as being directed toward your post! :-)

My concern is still election fraud in its many forms. I hope whoever the nominee is, they get a huge turnout to make theft impossible. It's why I don't like to hear that folks won't vote at all if "so-and-so" is the nominee.

I'll vote for either, and I actually care little for neither.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Obama wants to get all cozy with republicans, too.......
but that's ok because it's Obama, a perfect example of what the OP is talking about.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. I can't really stand either of them, so you can learn that too.
Your post stinks like rotten tripe. Your broad generalizations are obvious and vomitous.

Both their campaigns are replete with copious amounts of bullshit, and neither really faces up to the reality of what is occurring in this nation.

And so, of course, this is exactly why they are even allowed to get this far at all. Their lack of deep and affective relevance is what has brought them so close to the prize.

They're both politicians, they're both just piles of animated hamburger like the rest of us. And I'll be selecting the slightly fresher pile of meat, thank you very much.

Lucky me. Such a fine selection from which to choose.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
23. What I've learn: Hill supporters, even in victory, are still extremely spiteful..
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
24. I'd like to exntend a hearty Welcome to DU to you.
Excellent post. :thumbsup:
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
25. Does he really have a "Harry & Louise clone ad" now?
I hadn't heard that one. That REALLY low if true.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
27. your OP is a crock of shite
you think you are better than DU, particularly DU's Obama supporters/Hillary haters. I think DU was better before your 'contribution'.
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Liberal Dose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. Posts like these make my heart sick that once again, I have to hold my nose and vote nt
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
34. Well said.
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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
35. excellent post.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
36. What I know. The Dems have a shot at my state, NC, if Obama
is the nominee. Do I have to keep going?
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
37. one more...
Hillary is not a viable candidate because Republicans hate her with a fiery passion and would never let her win.

If a Republican operative attends a public event for Hillary and wears an inflammatory shirt, it's because racist Republicans love Hillary with a fiery passion and make up her base, NOT because Republicans are dirty tricksters who pull divisive crap like this every election.


(Incidentally, what was the name of the Republican operative who claimed he had been beat up by Kerry supporters at a rally in 2004 and it turned out he actually did it to himself on purpose?)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. I can't believe you kicked this.
Oh wait... I can.
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goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
38. lol
1. reagan isnt running for president. hes dead. plus he didnt belittle hillary there.
2. republicans have specifically been asked to vote hillary to keep the dem feud going.
3. i dont see a bias on either side so ill skip that one.
4. both sides are making a mistake if they wont vote against mccain.
5. her ad was not specific about anything - it looked like a brinks home security commercial for gods sake.

once one of our guys seals the deal to move on, we all need to just focus on voting against mccain. if you dont like hillary or obama, forget about them, just dont be an idealist and go with the lesser evil at the very least. dont help the other side, you will regret it if they win. bush already had his 8 years, dont let mccain give him 4 more.
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Nine Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. my responses
1. Obama didn't just praise Reagan's charisma, he praised him for bringing "accountability" back to government after the "excesses" of the 60s and 70s. This election year, more than most, is not going to be just about individual candidates; it will be a referendum on the policies of the Democratic Party versus those of the Republicans. Bush is not running, but his failures are a drag on every candidate with an R after his name. Democrats have a built-in advantage this year because everyone is running on "change," and it's the Republicans who have been in power all this time and have to answer most for these screw-ups. When Obama praised Reagan in that manner, the poster child of modern Republican policies, he essentially tagged them as the party of responsibility and associated our Party with the "big government" label (a label Bill Clinton helped us lose). Reagan may not be literally running for office, but his "ghost" is appropriated by every Republican candidate all the time. Obama's remarks diluted our Party's strength as the party of change this year. That said, I don't think his comments are going to do that much damage in the long run. But I think Hillary's will hurt us even less, even if Obama wins the nomination. The Republicans were always going to attack Obama on his inexperience; it's an obvious weakness that has been commented on long before Hillary mentioned it. Obama was always going to have that vulnerability running against McCain - that was Hillary's point. Hillary didn't say anything that everybody didn't already know. It's an indisputable fact and McCain doesn't need a clip of Hillary saying so to make that point. However, if Hillary becomes the nominee, you can expect the Republicans to use the Obama campaign's reckless and phony racism accusations to try to suppress our base. That doesn't bother you?

2. Republicans are playing games. I think it's just as likely, if not more so, that they prefer that Obama face McCain. But that's just my opinion. They pull so many sneaky tricks, I think it's foolish to think we can figure out what their real strategy is. I suggest we ignore their shenanigans and stop using them as an excuse to smear our candidates. I am somewhat shocked, though, that some Obama supporters seem to think that the Democratic Hillary supporters are a bunch of racists but that the Republicans voting for Obama in primaries are chomping at the bit to put a black junior senator from a blue state and with a Muslim name into the Oval Office. I wonder why Obama can't work his magic to overcome the racism of those Hillary supporters? I guess all those lifelong Democrats supporting her just aren't as open-minded and progressive as those lifelong Republicans Obama is winning over.

4. I agree.

5. I agree, her ad was a perfectly generic "Who do you want in charge when there's a crisis?" ad. It didn't specify what type of crisis. It didn't even mention Obama. She wasn't screaming "Red alert! Panic!" like the Bush administration does every time they want to suppress more of our liberties. She wasn't telling us terrorists were coming to get us in scuba diving suits. It was the antithesis of the "Which candidate would you like to share a beer with?" question. Her campaign theme has always been about substance over style, actions over words, solutions over pie-in-the-sky promises, experience over wishful thinking. Fear has nothing to do with it. She was just asking voters to get serious for a minute. The crisis phone call is not some far-fetched possibility, it's an inevitability. That's what presidents do.


I agree with you - the important thing is to get a Dem in the White House.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. SPOT.ON.
:kick: & :thumbsup:
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
41. Beautiful post
You nailed it.

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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
43. Excellent post
and Welcome to DU.
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