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Wes Clark has compromised his integrity for HRC.

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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 04:57 AM
Original message
Wes Clark has compromised his integrity for HRC.
Edited on Tue Mar-04-08 05:51 AM by lamprey
I remember like yesterday Wes slamming Bush for using 'fear as a political weapon' in his response to the State of the Union address 2004.

Today he stands behind Hillary, a dutiful soldier, participating in the sharpest fear campaign since LBJ.

I remember the Deaniacs dismissing as a Clinton stooge. I never gave them the time of day. In 2008 I am beyond confused.

I am sorry WesDem, CrunchyFrog, I can't believe in him any more. At the end of the. a compromise pays off.

Edit. I have substituted 'compromise' for 'mortgage'. That word was too strong. What I am saying here is Wes is just another politician, and I expected so much more from the man I believed in, who stood against genocide, without compromise.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I just don't understand the need for people to demonize
I really really don't get it.
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Franks Wild Years Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. But it's not.
It's truth. I have less respect for Clark than I do for George W. Bush at this stage. Much less.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. I am not demonizing. I am sad beyond measure.
Another loss of innocence I suppose. They are all politicaians, including ofcourse Obama.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I don't see the OP demonizing
Seems more like an expression of disappointment. Having said that, I don't see how anyone can deny that Clinton is running a sharply negative campaign. I don't think that makes her evil or a traitor or any of that nonsense, but it's absurd not to acknowledge that that's the shape of her campaign at this point.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. And Wes said he would never countenance that.
WesDem no doubt will put me one ignore. The conversations we had on forclark seem so long ago now.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. "Wes Clark has mortgaged his integrity for HRC"
I don't see how saying someone has 'mortgaged his integrity' can be seen as anything but demonizing.

Is there something substantive there that I missed?

Additionally, though I disagree about the characterization of the Clinton campaign, it seems unfair to tar Clark with any and all 'sins' of the campaign. That's why I see this as more demonizing.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. It's certainly strong criticism, but it's not demonizing
and there's a difference. As for Clinton's campaign having gone negative, there's really not much disagreement about that among analysts and pundits.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. Well, I support Clinton. Did >I< mortgage my integrity?
Did the other DUers who support her?

It's an insult without substance and therefore a smear.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. It's not demonizing. It's the deepest disappointment.
A mortgage can be paid back. It's a fine line, but I don't believe he's sold out. He believes HRC would be the best president, still he is averting his eyes from the sort of fear campaign that he saidhe would never countenance.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. What really scares me is that I believe you guys truly don't see it.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. I am not demonizing a man who believes HRC will be the best president
Edited on Tue Mar-04-08 05:27 AM by lamprey
of the USA. Perhaps compromised his integrity would have been a better phrase. If you can't remember how passionately Wes abhorred political fear campaigns, then I guess you don't see it either.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. When you can look at the Clinton campaign and not automatically see it in the worst possible light
it becomes easier to see what's going on.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. I am trying to keep an open mind.
Really. The 3am ad is a classic fear bomb.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. You don't get that we REJECT the politics of fear and smear...
really? And ALL that participate in it. Be they republicans or democrats.

After all of the Fear and Smear from Rove and his ilk, you don't really think that it's OK to have the "red phone rings at 3am" campaign JUST because a democrat launched it?
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Saying someone has mortgaged his integrity isn't a smear?
Ok.

:eyes:
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. If compromised his integrity is more acceptable, so be it.
At the end of the day, Wes is just another politician. As are they all.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. it's a sickness, LeftCoast
it proves the crazies are not all in freeperland
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. I wish I knew how to open some eyes around here
I'm at a loss though.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. So am I.
Edited on Tue Mar-04-08 05:33 AM by lamprey
beyond confused. Reaching a conclusion.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. Let me remind you, gently...

3. Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.


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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wes has been a friend of the Clintons for years.
You shouldn't hold it against him for sticking with his friends.
I love Wes and I am rooting strongly for Obama.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. 'Fear as a pollitcal weapon'
it was one of the most passionate statements he ever made. Yes. I think he believes that Hillary would be the best president. As for her campaign, the end justifies the means.

Where is the man who threw himself down a embankment to rescue an injured soldier? I don't know.
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I think it will all be over soon.
And the average voter will forget all of this.
This is just a tense time I think.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's a cult! He has turned into a Hillbot!! n/t
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. No, he's taken out a mortgage.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Good thing we don't have any demonizing going on..
Because then someone might say the Obama campaign is going negative.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. wes was always very strong in the clinton camp. ive thought from the beginning
that he would be hillarys vp choice.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I agree. I am mourning.
He will stand by the Clinton camp, wherever Mark Penn leads them.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I can see Wes serving as Secretary of Defense
Congress can vote to waive the 10-year rule. They already did it once before.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. He'd be a good one too!
That is if he isn't too demonized by his own party before November.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Wes would make an excellent Secretary of Defense.
Edited on Tue Mar-04-08 05:24 AM by lamprey
It will take an act of Congress to amend the 10 year rule. but his understand of international military/political strategy is second to none
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. All he needs to do is not catapult the propaganda.

He can support Hillary, endorse Hillary, say Hillary will make a fine President and would be a great Commander-in-chief.

But he doesn't have to get down in the mud with her and help her fling the poo at Obama.

Just like Colin Powell didn't HAVE to agree to become Chimpy's SecState where he was used in the most vile way to launch a war of choice against a people who were innocent.

Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Agreed.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
37. Have an example of where he did that?
Fling poo? Lay down with dogs?

WTF are we talking about here?
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Wes - (I would never) 'use fear as a politcal weapon'.
HRC is running a sharp fear campaign. Wes is playing along, standing beside her.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Sad, really sad.
What you Obama folks are willing to twist to your ends.

Even to taking down Wes Clark?

Who will it be next, I wonder??

Give us a break already. The Obama fatigue is setting in.....


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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. WaPp - Playing the fear card
- 3am a classic fear attack. You are twisting like Chubby Checker.
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
17. It's the same thing McCain did for Bush...
...
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. Reduced to compromised salesmen.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. No, he would be an excellent VP or Secretary of Defense.
But is he turning a blind eye to something he has previously condemned. He is just another politician. They all are.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Wes owes too much to the Clintons. Too bad.
They'll never let him forget how much.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
36. And I lost all remaining respect I had for McCain then too.
Not to mention Colin Powell at a later date.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Bush attacked McCain personally.
If anything the Clinton's are loyal. But Wes has turned his back on principle. Just another politician.
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