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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:40 PM
Original message
Sorry about the purging business
Maybe my approach was off. I guess I was off base. Sorry if I offended anyone. At least I got your blood pressure going. :toast: I would defend you all against the pukes and I would be honored to be at your side while we beat Bush.

:pals:
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Apology accepted.
:toast:
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're the best Bleachers!
:hug:
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. We got your back!

Nothin' to it.

:pals:
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for your apology.
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 06:46 PM by library_max
And the expressions of friendship. I started a thread partly in response to the purge thread, "A Question for Kerry Supporters and a Question for Kerry Detractors." http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Maybe it's another approach to what you were trying to do.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's okay...nobody listens to you anyways
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 06:46 PM by rucky
:)

It's as if it never happened.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sorry is not enough.
You'll have to do a lot of binging to make up for that post:

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:
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Exgeneral Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You can't take back something that is being held up nationally
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 06:55 PM by Exgeneral
I just got an email of your purge post from a friend in Michigan who got that post forwarded from Howard Dean supporters in Georgia.

You made quite a splash there pal.
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MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yeah, I got it too, it is getting around pretty quickly on the web.
eom
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Is it linked somewhere.
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 07:45 PM by Bleachers7
I would love to own up to it.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I have had made a splash before.
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 07:46 PM by Bleachers7
So far the biggest splash was when I made Limbaughs show. Is it posted somewhere on the web?
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Probably just a few dozen Dean yahoo groups so far .. give it time
n/t
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. sounds like you're proud that you made it on Limbaugh's show
:shrug:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I think that was for something completely different
maybe someone can refresh my memory...
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. I am.
It was Clark saying that Limbaugh is "full of shit" to me. I posted it on DU. That's how pillboy found us.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. I wouldn't be proud that I got quoted on Limbaugh.....
I'd be prouder to get quoted on the Mike Malloy show.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Maybe you should hear the quote.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. You must have been bad when I wasn't looking.
:spank:

I don't know why, but I'm sure you deserve it. :D
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. So we won't get to see Siberia?....
:thumbsdown:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. lol
That's not what I meant.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. blood pressure
lets you know your still alive right? :)

Not to worry, the BFEE make us say strange things sometimes. I am sure most all DU'ers will pardon you.

:toast:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Sorry if you were offended.
I guess I was off base.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I understood what you were saying. Sometimes I express myself
too directly for a message board. But really I though you were spot on, from my perspective at least! :loveya: Bleachers!
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Gulag for me?
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 07:49 PM by cynicalSOB1
If that's spot on, may I suggest a big Kerry you.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. NO!
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 07:57 PM by saywhat
I believe that Bleachers was trying to point out how we must unify or we will disintegrate. If some want to destroy the Dem Party then maybe it's time for them to leave. That makes sense to me. I certainly don't want you or any other Dem to leave the party, but get real. How can we defeat * if we are constantly undermining our, presumptive, nominee. Yes, there's still a snowball's chance in hell of Kerry not getting the nom, but I'm talking about probabilities.

We're all in this together (I HOPE) and will support the Dem nominee with the ultimate air of defeating the *. * is a bad as it gets, right?, and we have to get him out, right? I'm really believing that Kerry can do this, and that's a very good thing! I've had to go through a painful loss and transition when Clark dropped out, but he wants us to move on. I dearly love the General and Gert and believe that they and we Dems in general are on our way to rescuing this country from the jaws of death. Please, let us all stand together. :hug:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Great way to unify
Purge the big tent into a pup tent.

:eyes:
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. My post flew right past you, did it.
OH, WELL.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I read it as
those with differing opinions are no longer welcome in the party, we are to be purged, or at least that's what ol'Bleachers wants.

I will not unify behind *Kerry*, BUSH-LITE!
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. That's not what I was saying.
It had nothing to do with Policy or positions on issues. It had everything to do with Drudge and Democratic candidates.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Then I guess alot of us need to be sent for improvement of our...
DLC approved reading comprehension skills.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. What I forgot is that the DLC needed to be purged also.
I do not appreciate them putting up articles saying that the democrats have come back to reality or whatever crap they are spreading. They have been part of the problem too.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Please delete that
the mods will take it off.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Let them.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. Hmmmmm
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 08:24 PM by Walt Starr
Interesting response. That's what I received in three different emails.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. So, you're saying that if a Dem candidate gets the nomination,
either in 2004 or any other future time, but is not the one you want to win in the GE, then you'll vote against him/her? If this is true then yes, I'd think you'd be better served by declaring yourself an Independent.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. CynicalSOB once said
that he would prefer Bush to Kerry because there is no difference.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. Aye.
Iraq, NCLB, Campaign Finance, Medicare,...

On the things that really matter to me there isn't much of a differnce.

Should I vote for Zell just becuase there's a D next to his name?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. It depends
In a senate race or anything else other than the presidency, have fun. The GE is just way to important to make a stand. I see it as life and death.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. So....
Zell without the endorsement> Bush?

I'm a Democrat but I won't vote for anything with a D next to it.

Would you vote for Traficant or Torecelli for president?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. If they were my only choice against Bush
ABB I guess. But realistically they would never get that far and Kerry is not like those 3 guys.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. How is Kerry that different?
His war vote was just craven. Good Americans died, mind you.

Traitors are worse than enemies. The wound strikes deeper.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
93. I was against all that stuff
And I am still not a full blown Kerry supporter. I argued against all that crap here on DU. But, Kerry has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate. Kerry will help us with judges which we desperately need. And Kerry is right on a lot of issues too.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #93
100. And Kerry is still liberal after voting or allowing all those things?
"When given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat acting like a Republican the voters will always choose the real thing"

Kerry won't be able to do anything but lessen the loss until another Bush arises.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. And my response is........................................................
:puke:

Ahhh, that feels better.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Reading a call for purges as "unifying"
has nothing to do with the Democratic Party I have been a member of for more than two decades.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. Why did Bleachers bother to apologize.
He wasted it on many here it seems. :thumbsdown:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. There are certain things that I refuse to ever forgive
Apologies are meaningless platitudes that only serve to make the one presenting the apology feel better.

Forgiveness must be earned. I see no reason to forgive the purge post.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. Well, don't hold your breath waiting for me to EARN your forgiveness
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOL!!!!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #76
83. Well you weren't the one apologizing
for making a post that is now all over the internet in emails.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. All over the internet in e-mails???????????????
Who the fuck cares?
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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #89
205. I believe some people were already so hard of heart
no apology would be sufficient, which kind of renders indignation into puffery.

It does not detract from the sincerity of the apology, or the meaning of the gesture.

Bleachers, good on you.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. And DU posts aren't meaningless platitudes?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. You are one of the best, Hedda_foil!
I really enjoy your posts and you make me proud to be a fellow Democrat.
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Whoa! hedda!!!!
:hi:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Apology not accepted
I received three copies of that post via email from three different people who do not know each other but know me. All three people know I hang out on DU and were amazed such a thing would be posted on an allegedly Democratic web site. None of the three have spent more than a few minutes here, and now none of the three will ever spend time here.

:grr:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Walt
Like I said, I was wrong. Sorry Is it linked on the web?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Clear text in the body of an email n/t
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. I think you just got caught up in the
excitement generated by the tnr article and it sounded like a good idea to you? It's really not your fault that the official Party leaders want to punish dissenters. And maybe you just followed their lead?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:01 PM
Original message
Actually I got the word "purge" from them
But I was prompted by a DUer here. A certain DUer was going off on Kerry with the Drudge stuff. He was going at it relentlessly. I was getting frustrated with someone speculating with lies. I was not talking about voters.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
41. what if the lies turn out to be true----what then?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. I have said somewhere on here
That I will be incredibly hostile towards Kerry. That means that he ran for president knowing that was in his background. He would have known that it was coming out. That would be bad.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
108. I've made appeals in ATA
to 'purge' DU of Drudge type *reading materials* .. The decision of admin has been to trust us to use 'responsibly'. Maybe we need a reminder, don't Drudge and Drive.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #108
170. I hope they start listening to you.
How about starting a petition for DUers to send to the adms. I'll sign.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. I appreciate the apology
that was big.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. your apology is NOT accepted....
and you wonder why Dean supporters don't like the Democratic Party? The Democratic Party I once knew was inclusive of all its members, and did not recommend any fucking "purgings"----the Democratic Party you espouse is a fascist, intolerant party.

That IS not my Democratic Party.....
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. I thought this was FreeRepublic?
And these types of posts are the best part of that place. Where else could I be threatened with purgation?

To Bleachers: Karl Rove thanks you!
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. It has nothing to do with Dean.
I never used Dean's name once in there.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. I never said it as is, I just insinuated, correct?
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. the post you made earlier referred to the TNR article of purging
Dean supporters from the Democratic Party. :mad:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Not exactly
I used the word a different way. The word itself meant something, but I had not read the whole article. I thought it was a good word to express how I felt.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. I wouldn't call "purge" a good word.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. I agree now.
Sorry
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Paulie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Sincerity or PRIDE???
Hard to tell, considering the person seems pretty happy about making the news and the rounds on the net.

Looks like the thread was deleted, I only saw the first parts of it. Enough that I went to lunch instead of post. The originator should have probably done the same. Too late now.

Sibera would be too good.... how about a spider hole???
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. Your Excellency!
Too bad I'm a Protestant.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
62. Sorry
Sorry, sorry sorry
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Run GrovelBot run!
The purge is coming!

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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Run GrovelBot run!
The purge is coming!

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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
54. I think this apology is tearing open wounds more than promoting healing.
Maybe it would be better received when people have had more time to settle down.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. It was fine
until someone told me to F off. Now it's a mess.
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texasmom Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. I just want to say
that I have no idea what your post said, but your apology seemed very sincere to me. :hug:

You've also tried to explain what you were trying to say, apologizing over and over as you're explaining. Geez. I don't know what else you can do! :shrug:
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. I posted it above.
Hurry.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. look at post 66, and see why we're upset
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #61
85. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. I don't think we're much of a minority.
We might very well be a plural majority, hence the fundraising begging.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #88
94. Yeah, right, lol!
You'll be asked for money if you're on any number of Democratic e-mail lists. Don't flatter yourself! :D
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #94
104. I think I was referring to DU, I don't remember the last drive being
anywhere near this pathetic.

So Dean and his army is irrelevant.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. Guess we're just a mean bunch of S.O.B.s
Very sad.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #54
79. What else should you expect.
Let me give you a situation--

When teaching I have 3 simple rules for my students.

The Three R's

Rational Thought
Respect for other peoples opinions
Responsibility for one's actions or lack thereof.


Your post and now this one apologizing broke all three of those rules in one way or another. Intended or no-- an apology does not suffice for many. You'll just have to accept the responsibility and the ramifications.

It's part of life and we all have to grow up and realize that we don't get "do overs" when we want.

The internet might be "the ether" but you're dealing with human beings all the same. We all have little if any clue about what people are dealing with on a day to day basis-- we all come here in support of various candidates and many take the process quite seriously.

The purging thread was quite wrong.
The apology thread might be accepted by some and rejected by others.


You will just have to live with that. It's called life.

I, for one, do not accept your apology. I do not think you even begin to understand the effects of the thread on many people.

This is not a game or a competition.



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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. I agree completely, but I believe you did not intend to direct this...
post to me.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #84
92. Nope--
So sorry about that--wish I knew how to move it.

Damn technology...*goes back to shack to write manifesto*
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
81. Guys,
This primary season has all of us a bit high-strung. Many of us have experienced the occasional brainfart and posted extreme views which, in retrospect, we might have wanted to present differently or even not at all.

I'm willing to take Bleacher's apology at face value.

Maybe it might be a good idea to take a step back while emotions may still be a little bit volatile over the subject? Just a thought.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. The problem is that many of us don't believe it was a brainfart.
Furthermore, the feelings behind it are obviously real and the threats are intended.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #86
102. Does this threaten you?
This party needs to stand for something. It needs to grow. It needs to be
focused on serving the American people. It needs to concentrate on winning
elections. And most of all, it needs to be united.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #102
109. You know winning isn't everything, this isn't a game.
Howard is about standing for somethings, growing the party and focusing on people not lobbyists.

United behind who?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. Howard has also said repeatedly
that he will stand behind the nominee. Will you renounce him then?
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #111
127. No, he can do as he wants. We aren't blind followers.
He's got no choice but to do it, we do have a choice.

On to 08!
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #127
141. What if a Dem is up for reelection in '08?
On to 2012?
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #141
147. If it's from the Kerry-Zell wing of the party, no.
At this point I'm still a bit on the fence but it's probably Dean write in. I've been wavering a bit on this.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #127
164. And exact;u WHY does he have NO choice?
I thought Howard was the personification of an independent outsider? Or is he something else entirely?
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #164
169. He's a major figure in the Democratic party.
Howard has too, we want Bush out too. However, the foor soldiers are not in the same position, we can move as we please without utterly damning the nominee. We aren't cultists you know.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #102
168. Bleachers, uniting isn't purging
Get your vocabulary straight ok? You apologize but then you dig a deeper hole.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #86
124. To an extent, I agree
The feelings were pretty apparent behind the original "purge" post. I'm willing to entertain the notion that Bleachers was feeling an immense amount of frustration and blew his top. What we say in a pique of anger is not always what we would say after having had time to give more deliberate consideration to an idea.

A segment of the progressive wing of the party is feeling betrayed by the party itself for a variety of reasons. And a large segment of the party is feeling betrayed by elements within the progressive wing due to their refusal to get in line like good little soldiers. That mutual sense of betrayal IS something which will have to be worked out for the party to survive, and it isn't surprising some of the first exchanges to directly address the subject are volatile and extreme. The sense of betrayal inspires powerful emotions.

The issue does need to be addressed in some context. I'm suggesting that maybe people are still a little too close to it after the earlier post....it might be beneficial to take a step back, take a few deep breaths and then try and address the topic constructively instead of just being mad at each other.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
87. apologies should be accepted, always
I can't believe someone extended an apology for a wrong they felt they perpetuated, and some people can't accept it.

I think alot of people need to read up on Mohandes Gandhi
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Hitler says, I'm sorry and the Jews accept, correct?
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. hehehe...illogical extrapolations don't prove points.
read about Gandhi

I don't believe in god, but you should read about Jesus Christ too.

forgiveness is and should be absolute, if it is asked for it should be granted.

I can't believe I have to state this on a liberal BBS
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #96
116. I am under no moral obligation to forgive anybody fo anything
none.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #116
125. well, you are right
you aren't...you aren't under any obligation to be morally correct either.

To treat other humans in the best manner possible...as you want treated yourself...if you forgive yourself for things you upset yourself with, you owe it to your fellow humans to do the same with them

it is just a matter of treating people like you are supposed to, you aren't obligated to do it, but it is still correct to do so.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #125
158. I don't live by the princiles of Judeo Christianity
nor Ghandi.

I don't have to either.

I support the death penalty. I believe murderers get what they deserve when a needle is stuck in their arm and they deserve no forgiveness.

I believe somebody had better be contrite when apologizing, or else they have no chance of me accepting their apology.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #158
159. fine
I don't respect that viewpoint
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #159
165. Fine
I cannot respect yours either then.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #165
167. doesn't matter, as long as you are on the correct side of an issue
as I am
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #167
173. I am definitely on the right side of this issue
You are in the wrong, IMO.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #173
176. ah, the revolving reply
naa na naa na naa naa, you are still wrong

imo
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #176
178. Whoopde doo
I thin you're wrong and I think Ghandi was wrong on many things.

Malcom X had the right idea about many things. If a man pushes me, I punch. If he pulls a knife, I pull a gun.

Apologies and accepting apologies are signs of weakness.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #178
180. You've convinced me. This works much better with my inner nature as well
Thanks! :-)
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #178
181. whatever
fuck violence and the pain it creates...fuck the world that say's war and violence is the way it has to be.

we are an immature species...we truly are

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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #181
183. We're only human.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #183
184. so what
that is no free pass for people to give up on finding truth and creating a better world
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #184
185. They are searching for truth. They just don't see eye to eye with you
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #185
187. well
those of us enlightened know...sadly it is only a small precentage of society
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #184
188. In the meantime, old men grab little girls from car washes
then rape and kill them.

This is a violent and dangerous world we live in. Homo Sapiens has yet to evolve into an intelligent species.

Accepting reality is all we can do.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #188
190. reality is common
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 09:29 PM by OhioStateProgressive
idealism is a higher plane

exist in it and the world may live longer
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:33 PM
Original message
Reality is truth
Idealism is dreaming.

WAKE UP!!!
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
193. i'm sorry you don't want a better world
I think it is worth it
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #193
200. Utopian bliss is impossible
Every attempt at establishing it has failed miserably. It goes against basic human nature.

Homo Sapiens is imperfect and as such, is a violent race. There can be no better world so long as one among us is violent. All there can be is survival.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #200
201. I obviously disagree(nt)
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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #200
210. All there can be is survival? What an empty barren
view of life. Good lord, why even bother?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #181
186. There is one penalty for repaying violence against you with peace,
a swift and often painful death.

One must react to the reality of the world one finds oneself thrust into. The world is a violent and scary place. If one reacts to violence against oneself with naught but sitting down, that one is described by a single word.

Victim.

I own a gun. I have defended myself, both unarmed and armed, on many occasions. I am not afraid to take another man's life if that man is threatening my life with violence. That is the reality of this world.

Police and laws can only be reactionary forces. knowing how to defend oneself and being prepared to kill if necessary in order to survive is a proactive approach to a violent world.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #186
189. truth
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 09:29 PM by OhioStateProgressive
is the opposite of what you posted

I would rather die than have the blood of another on my hands
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #189
194. Interesting
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 09:36 PM by Walt Starr
I would kill without hesitation if I found myself in a kill or be killed situation. I would kill without hesitation if I was in a situation where another man was directly threatening my wife's life.

I would have no remorse whatsoever. I would be doing what is necessary. The choice would not be mine, it would be the man threatening me or mine.

Edited to add: Maybe my military training is coming through here, but this is how one must react to violence.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #194
195. i reiterate
I will die before I take a life
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #195
197. For your sake, I hope you never face a moment of truth.
Seriously, in a kill or be killed situation, I fear ou would be a victim rather than a survivor.

There is but one meaning to life, survival.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #197
199. well
I would also give my life to save yours so you never have to make that choice either
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #199
203. Here's a quandery for you
You say you would die to save my life. What if this were the situation.

Another man is about to kill me, you can stop him from killing me. All you have to do is kill him. Would you kill to save my life?

Personally, I'd rather know somebody willing to kill to protect my life than die to protect my life. It takes real courage to be able to kill.

Patton spoke a unique truth to his troops:

"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

Patton was brilliant in his honesty about combat.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #203
204. sorry
I would die for anyone...I would kill for no one.

I understand that maybe this is somewhat naive of me...maybe it would change.

I don't have respect for Patton...he was a Militaristic animal
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #204
206. Patton was a true American hero
He was a brilliant srategist and singlehandedly saved more lives in World War II than any other man because of his brilliance. Had he not done what was considered impossible in the winter of '44, thousands upon thousands of American lives would have been lost.

Should we have just rolled over and accepted Hitler? Hitler is the perfect representation of the evil that exists in this world. The Pattons of the world are required because there are Hitlers in the world.

No amount of idealism will ever alter that simple fact.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #206
207. war is wrong
and Patton was great at it

that makes him a big asshole in my eyes
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #207
208. So it was wrong to take out Hitler?
Man, that's pretty messed up if you ask me!

War is necessary. World War II was a righteous war.

Korea was wrong.

Vietnam was wrong.

The Gulf Wars were and are wrong.

World War II was 100% necessary as was Patton.

Without Patton, we'd REALLY be living under a Nazi regime today.

I cannot respect anybody who cannot respect that simple truth.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #208
212. in the grand scheme of things
I think World War Two is what happened because of World War One...out of the faults of all nations...we were responsible for Hitler...our citizens financed him...War resulted, I am not going to get into the argument about whether it was necessary or just
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #178
209. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. Apologies should be offered when things have calmed and be phrased so...
as to avoid continuing conflict.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. you may be right
but I don't believe it is good reason to not accept an apology
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #97
107. There is an old Jewish custom (i heard) that says if one fails to..
apology after three seperate attempts to apologize then the guilt is transferred. I think that the issue here is way to hot to touch at this point and I can completely understand those not willing to accept the apology yet.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. I understand why as well
but since we all know that we are supposed to accept apologies, why would we condone those who choose to do other than what is morally right?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #110
113. There is no moral obligation to accept any apology.
None.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #113
131. hehehe
look, you are right, there isn't

but it is still wrong to not accept apologies

just like violence is always wrong, all apologies should be accepted...I am sorry you aren't aware of this
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #131
138. If there is no moral obligation to accept an apology
then refusing to accept an apology cannot be wrong by definition.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #138
142. well, generally treating people bad is wrong
but everyday I find people disagreeing with me
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #142
149. Refusing to accept an apology is not treating somebody bad
It is exercising my rights.

If somebody murdered my wife and was on the gurney just about to get a needle in the arm was to apologize, I would proudly and loudly state, "I will not accept your apology you murderous bastard now take the punishment you deserve!"

Nobody is under any obligation to accept any apology. The existance of the apology indicates the one making the apology wronged the person or persons being apologized to. I do not have to forgive somebody for their wrongdoing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #110
118. I believe that they have the right to refuse
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 08:50 PM by JVS
Especially if they feel that the apology is insincere.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #118
135. I practice no religion in the Judeo-Christio-Islamic traditions
ergo, I am not only under no moral obligation to forgive and accept an apology, I am also under no religious obligation to forgive and accept an apology.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #135
139. it doesn't matter if you do or not
it is a simple matter of treating human beings correctly...and accepting apologies is part of it
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #139
151. No, accepting apologies is not a part of it.
There is no reason to accept an apology if you cannot.I refuse to accept this apology, especially since I do not consider it sincere.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #151
155. love is the answer
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 09:00 PM by OhioStateProgressive
being able to accept apologies means you have to be able to open your heart

anything less is a form of revenge, and we all know revenge is wrong
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #155
161. It's not a form of revenge
Revenge would be me taking a hammer to somebody over words.

I'm no Christian nor am I a follower of Ghandi. If attacked violently I will fight back and I will put another man down if I feel threatened enough by that man.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but I live by the reality of the world I live in.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. A. it is revenge, otherwise I wouldn't have said it
and

B. your "message" is incorrect whether I like it or not

it's right and wrong and you can only be on one side of it
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #162
171. What's wrong is giving over power to people who have wronged you
by forgiving them.

That's a major sign of weakness of character, IMO.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #171
172. try again
again, your opinion or message is wrong
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #172
174. Nope
Yours is.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #174
177. pee wees big adventure
I suppose this is more fun than watching tv

so for that I thank you
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #177
179. Not really
But you're still wrong, IMO.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #179
182. what kind of cookie would you like?
you advocate violence and revenge...I don't care what you value as right and wrong anymore
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #182
191. I advocate defending myself and my family
I advocate recognizing those who would do harm to me and mine and eliminating those threats.

I advocate reality rather than hopeless dreams.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. well
I think that is a surface analysis type of philosophy

truth is obvoiusly a bit deeper than that
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #192
196. Your "truth" depends upon everybody believing as you
Sounds pretty false to me.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #196
198. I am finished
I have stated all I want to say on the matter.

my argument remains intact
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #135
144. yeah. I have to agree.
Especially considering the nature of this apology
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. Apologies will be accepted by some
When the apology is heartfelt.

The "my bad" quality shows to me that it was not.

It appears that many feel that this is a game. It isn't.

Gandhi was principled and stuck to said principles.
They were well thought out offered up.

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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. I guess it is a philosophy difference
since i believe those principles to be correct I live up to them.

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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. No real difference really
But to bring Gandhi into this situation is not relevant.

To accept the apology and move on would be to ignore the issues that were raised by the offending thread.

This is not the time to "sweep things under the carpet"

We cannot afford to have folks discuss such vile things as "purging a party" and then go--sorry, my bad. Bygones?

And again. The initial post of this thread...not an apology to begin with.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #112
117. I see a big difference
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 08:50 PM by OhioStateProgressive
and I see the Gandhi reference for what it is...accept apologies 100%, for all reasons...because it is fair and right, and we should always resist human impulses that force us to lose touch with our inner knowledge of right and wrong

we know we shouldn't be mean and angry with each other

why allow ourselves to do it if we know it isn't right?
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #117
126. OK then
So you accept apologies--but then you ignore all else?

Sorry--I think there is mix up in interpreting both Gandhi and his actions and words here. I'll agree to disagree on this however.
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texasmom Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #117
154. OhioStateProgressive
:yourock:

You're inspiring me to go read more in-depth about Gandhi this weekend.
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OhioStateProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #154
157. thanks:)
I appreciate it :pals:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #154
163. Seconded
Ghandi was a man for all to learn from.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
95. I thought I was the only one! I got an e-mail too!
I had already read this for myself on here, and a friend sent me an e-mail this afternoon with the original post (cut & paste).
She asked me how I liked being a "pariah of the party"???
Much to my dismay, I could see she had copied it to at least 15 other people we know - ugh...

Let me mention - she's a Republican.
She thinks I am in the wrong party (kinda feels that way too).

I had no idea that other people were getting the same thing!

The collective bum's rush, heard 'round the world.

Nice work.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. really? this is precisely we cannot accept this apology from
the same author of that post that is now making its way around the world to Dean supporters, showing them how much their Democratic Party does not want them.....
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #98
114. I'm sorry, I didn't know I was Terry McAuliffe
Geez, how much power and influence do I have?
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #114
132. apparently you had some influence because that post you made
is now going around the world in e-mails. Aren't you proud?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #132
156. Proud?
I am not sure if I am proud. If it makes people think in a positive way, that's good. I have a feeling that isn't the case and it is unfortunate. I am sorry if I have upset or hurt anyones feelings. I hope we all stand together to challenge Bush.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #98
121. yes, & I hate talking about Dem party stuff w/Repubs!
Made me feel like a complete ass.
Felt like I had to justify why I am a Dem for only the 1000th time. Not to mention, some of these folks I was actively working to get them to our precinct convention (the people she forwarded to).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
99. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #99
105. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
103. I didn't see much
of the thread before it was zapped from existence. But I did read the original post. This is being way OVERBLOWN folks. While the writer of the post chose some words badly, the post was about unity to beat bush. The writer suggested that some people who were in the party don't belong. SHIT that gets suggested around here at least 10 times a week in various posts. And I didn't see where any specific group was talked about other than thsoe who refuse to vote for the nominee, who by definition have already excluded themselves. So maybe I am missing something?

flame away
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #103
115. Here is what EarlG had to say in ATA
"That thread was awful, and I mean almost every single post in that thread.

"Purging" the Democratic party? Cheering Matt Drudge?

The thread has been deleted.

And by the way, please keep your personal flame wars out of this forum."


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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. Yes I saw that, so it was other posts too i guess
not just the original that was so offensive?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. A huge number of those posts supported the original
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #115
122. I never
ever ever cheered Mat Drudge. I said this:

Third, any "Democrat" that enjoys repeating media lies (like Kerry's
special interest charge) or uses baseless information from guys like Drudge
needs to go. It is not appropriate to enjoy using baseless smears.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #122
129. So you apoloogize, but maintain that your position was correct.
I've considered this apology. I reject your apology.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #129
136. I can't win.
I no longer agree with the full content of that post. Here is what I agree with:

Third, any "Democrat" that enjoys repeating media lies (like Kerry's
special interest charge) or uses baseless information from guys like Drudge
is wrong. It is not appropriate to enjoy using baseless smears.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #103
119. No flames here.
We just differ on the issue of whether it was overblown or not or whether the apology was actually an apology.

I wonder if folks realize the effect the initial thread had on some?
I mean--have they actually tried to think about it--or is this whole board just some outlet for impulsive thoughts? If folks think they can just spout off and then pull and "etch a sketch" move and make things better, we're in for a hard year.

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #119
128. Sorry
but you should have seen the constant threads about how Drudge is right or probably right. Kerry is a philanderer and whatever else. I said this:

Third, any "Democrat" that enjoys repeating media lies (like Kerry's
special interest charge) or uses baseless information from guys like Drudge
needs to go. It is not appropriate to enjoy using baseless smears.


I said that Drudge was unacceptable. That's partly what set me off.
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maccaroni Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. But Drudge IS RIGHT.
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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #133
213. up IS down
right IS left. I get it now.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #128
140. I'm sorry too.
If this post was directed to mine--

Then I am sorry too, but I cannot accept your apology. Your initial post in this thread does not reflect that you realize the ramifications of your actions. In other words--no remorse or reflection showed up there.

No--I don't want some long winded apology-I would not be so presumptious.

I just wanted to point out to you and others that folks need to think long and hard before they start acting impulsively.

We all need to reflect a bit more.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #140
145. Thanks
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #119
130. What I do not understand
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 08:49 PM by Jim4Wes
is why any one individual or group felt targeted by the post, my recollection is it spoke in general terms about people who actively worked against getting the nominee elected. What did I miss?
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #130
134. because it was clearly referring to the TNR article which spoke
of the same "purging" of the Democratic Party by getting rid of Dean supporters.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #134
137. I referred to one word in an article I didn't read.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #137
143. well, that's funny
because that article spoke about purging the Democratic Party of Dean supporters.....and your post spoke of purging the party of those who did not clearly stand behind Kerry, thus implicitly referring to them as Dean supporters.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #143
152. Are you saying that Dean supporters will not support the nominee?
If that is something you know as fact then fine. I have seen supporters of many candidates here at DU upset about their candidates not winning. I am not TNR and I was not referring to any one crowd.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #137
153. Apologizing and then arguing your points
is NOT apologizing.

:eyes:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #153
160. Geez
I said that the word purge and the overall sentiment was off base. I still believe that Drudge is a bad source. That will never change.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #137
202. The word "purge."
The word has a lot of impact on older people who remember the first time that word had international meaning, and, I think, most strongly on descendants of Russian immigrants.

You may or may not recall the use of the word 'purge' in the Stalinist Soviet Union, and what that means to people.

It's a word that pushes buttons for a lot of reasons.
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texasmom Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #103
146. That's how I read it, now, too...
The message was about unity and fighting the common enemy.

I do think that people who still have a candidate in the race would read it differently than I do. I feel like a different person since Clark withdrew. None of the attacks faze me, and I know it's because I'm not emotionally invested anymore.

I can understand why the post would have offended, but I've read many things that have offended me here, especially when Clark was doing well. My blood boiled, but if one of those people had apologized--can't remember one doing so--I don't think I would have spit it back in their face. I just put them on ignore and ignored a few threads.

I just think that some people are more adversarial than others and aren't interested in forgiveness. I also think that many others, who would normally accept the apology and move on, have too high an emotional investment right now, and that just puts them on edge more. Oh well...

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #103
211. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #211
214. Move on?
Ok.

I'll just get over it. Move on. (If I had a nickel for every time that's been said.) What's next pictures of babies crying?

Offended by talk of purging then a half hearted apology and now told to move on.

Okey dokey. Baaaaaahhh. I'll move on.

*wonders where everyone's going...they just disappear up ahead..oops, cliff.*

Some folks were quite offended both by the initial thread and the remorseless "apology."

Guess what--some folks might have a point. Do only certain opions matter?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #214
215. The point has been made *I think*
Is more outrage needed? At some point a discussion should make progress or be ended, it seems the since no progress is being made between the various positions that it is time for the second option. Just a suggestion.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #215
217. I would agree in most cases
But this seems to be a pattern.

First: Bad thing goes down

Second: Told to move on.

Sometimes folks need to work to stop the cycle.

Too much was swept under the rug leading up to the 2000 election and soon thereafter.

Right now the rug is *bulging* and there just ain't room for more.

I agree that it's frustrating and tedious for some--but nothing worthwhile (i.e. a complete airing out of the situation) is easy.

I'm quite happy at the discussion to be completely honest. It has been interesting to see folks raise key points concerning the nature of the process, the nature of arguments, and the real power of words.

As long as folks don't get their knickers in a twist and take things personally then a healthy robust discussion of the issues is a good thing in my book.

I may disagree with some folks views and will state it--but I don't think these "opponents" are bad people. (woefully mistaken, as would be anyone who disagrees with me ;-) , but not bad.)

I've seen discussion of Gandhi, political discourse, the nature of apologies, etc discussed here-- if anything else--it's a healthy process for which the starting poster should be thanked.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #217
218. Point taken
Nice post,

I also like discussion to continue even on *controversial* issues as long as we can all acknowledge the right to opinions and not get into simplistic repetitive arguments.

I do understand the issues raised here, disenfranchisement and so on. I have been trying to accept the end of my candidates campaign, and I was a true believer I guess you can say, so its been a bit painful to see it end. My vote on 3/2 cannot bring it back you know.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
148. Thanks for the apology Bleachers7
I am a Democrat. I am a Dean supporter. There is absolutely no contradiction between the two.

Let me share a few lines from an email I received from Glen Maxey, who is heading the Dean campaign in Texas, discussing the possibility that by the time our primary rolls around on March 9 the nomination will have been decided:

When and if that happens, we must move forward and do everything in our power to defeat George Bush. I don't need to lecture anyone on that point. If you think not voting, or walking away from this because Howard Dean is not the nominee, and leaving this repugnant, disastrous administration in office is wise, then in my opinion, you shouldn't have been here in the first place.

I agree 100 percent with that sentiment.

There's a lot that needs to be fixed in this party, there's even more that needs to be fixed in this country. Anyone who thinks that either task can be accomplished by first driving people away is committing suicide. Anyone who thinks that only one candidate is good enough to lead us into the promised land is just plain nuts.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #148
175. that quote
Edited on Fri Feb-13-04 09:42 PM by drfemoe
doesn't sound the same taken out of context of the entire email. Mr. Maxey is not that harsh.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #175
216. That email as a whole
Discusses how he recommends Dean supporters here should act given the two possible scenarios: either we are still actually competitive; or we're not, in which case what's really important is how this great movement inspired by Howard Dean can continue past the primaries, past the convention and past November. But there is nothing in it that weakens his ABB sentiments that I have quoted.

I still think that Howard Dean is our best candidate for President. I am still talking to people, still winning some over to Dean. I am still reminding people that we are still in the race, still in second place. I am still contributing on a regular basis. On the morning of March 9 I am going to vote for Howard Dean and that evening I am going to caucus for him. But come November 2, if the name on the ballot happens to be John Kerry or john Edwards or Dennis Kucinich I will vote for him. Just like Howard Dean will.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
166. OK, it's cool
No biggie.
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