Gen. Clark made a major move tonight on Geraldo....

[Gloria]

If the video goes up anywhere, watch it!!

First off, Clark said that what Abazaid said today was basically a "theory"...all the "ifs" about how we could succeed in Iraq.

More importantly--Clark said that there was only a window "of a few weeks" for Bush to engage nations in the region etc. and that at that point, it would be time to get the troops out, in the right way.

Now, what he did tonight was switch the emphasis on his plan, the plan he presented a couple of weeks ago to the Out of Iraq Caucus, that was impressed by his presentation.

He is moving his plan along in terms of boxing in the "pro-more troops crowd" of the DLC, etc.

For several months he has talked about a "window" of a few to 6 months for Bush to execute a bunch of suggestions, knowing full well Bush wouldn't do it.

Well, the "window" is up in a few weeks. And, appropriately, he shifted the emphasis from all the suggestion to getting the troops out in the right way. Previously, he spoke of executing several suggestions, and that if it wasn't done, the American people would have a right to demand the pullout of troops.

Clark is working his way to the that goal, it seems as if the clock is ticking for him to start emphasizing pullout, rather than "success" in Iraq....

This should get interesting!!! Clarkies???

[JDPriestly]

1. Clark is one of the few rational voices on the Iraq mess.

Good for him.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Anyone that sticks it to the DLC is fine with me.

It is obvious even to many Republicans that the Iraq War is unwinnable.

[Spinzonner]

3. The war was won

It's the peace that's unwinnable

[FrenchieCat]

28. If there is no peace,

doesn't that leave us "still at war"?

[wiley]

41. US Soldiers are attacking small and large cities in Iraq.

How could the war be over?

[loudsue]

4. Clark knows BETTER than anyone in the republican machine does

about what needs to be done. Clark totally rocks. We need his voice of sanity and knowledge more often!

:kick:

[Dinger]

5. And To Think, He Could Be President Now

Not that we have one now, but I get the chills thinking about what might have been.

[karynnj]

19. More realisticly, holding some position in the Kerry administration

but for voter suppression in Ohio. I know he couldn't be Secretary of Defense, but his views are so close to Kerry's he'ld likely have been involved in some real way.

[FreedomAngel82]

65. Yes

Could he have been a Secretary of State? I think him being apart of Kerry's administration would've been great since he does know what he is talking about military wise.

[Rowdyboy]

6. He plays his cards carefully, as is appropriate for a serious person

I think Clark will play a big roll in the 2006 elections, especially with the surge of Iraqi war vet Dems running for congress. Hackett of Ohio has been joined by a half-dozen other Democratic vets running for house seats and I have high hopes that there will be a decent success rate for these guys. Combined with campaigning with non-vet Democrats, that would be good for the country and help him solidify his standing in the party.

[ksclematis]

8. This could be Wes'es strategy

to break with the Bush/Rummy ideas of "winning in Iraq" and align himself with Hackett and the war-opposing Dems & Repubs and "create" a more Dem policy on the war. This would also distance him from Kerry, Hiliary, et al who voted for the Iraq war.

I also agree with Rowdyboy!!!

GO, Wes, GO!!!!

[Lena inRI]

54. Yep, I've been reading between Clark's lines all along. . .

so back on August 30, when he was guest blogging on TPM, I asked him:

So, General Clark, would you reconsider your "change the course" idea for an "end the course" one asap?

I'd like to think I read his "intent" correctly. . .it's been 4 weeks since. . .keep on pushing General. . .I'm following your lead!

:loveya:

[AllyCat]

7. Wish I'd seen Clark. Instead, I saw Abazaid.

Could not believe how well he stuck to the talking points and refused to answer any actual questions (if one can call the words coming out of Timmy's mouth questions). All I could do was think "liar" everytime Abazaid spouted some nonesense about Iraq.

Leave it to Clark to have actual words of wisdom and an actual freakin' PLAN for how to do things. If only BushCo would listen...but as we all know, they won't.

Keep on it General! The rest of the U.S. is starting to slowly, slowly see what you are saying is correct.

[lostnfound]

12. When Abizaid said insurgents rarely hit targets of military significance..

I thought about how the families of a couple of thousand soldiers who have died there would feel to hear that. The latest is a beautiful young woman.

General Abizaid, meet Air Force Airman 1st Class Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 21, of Riviera Beach, Fla.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Very sad!

:cry:

[FreedomAngel82]

66. It seems lately

the democrats are coming out in full force with plans which is good news because I think it shows they're serious about getting re-elected. They're starting to campaign early.

[welshTerrier2]

9. great to hear !!

did Clark indicate what information caused him to speed up his timeline ??

i wonder if it was last Thursday's testimony by our top two Generals in the Middle East that there is only one (previously 3) Iraqi battalions capable of handling battles without US support ... or perhaps it's the devastating realisation that we are fighting "insurgents" who are perhaps as 96% Iraqi Sunnis and NOT foreign jihadists ... or perhaps Clark understands that the new constitution was influenced far too much by the US and totally puts the screws to the Sunnis and codifies a tyranny of the Shia and Kurd majority that virtually guarantees an untenable future for Iraq's Sunni population ...

Clark will be a very welcome addition to the "withdrawal movement" if and when he takes that position ... of course, i'd like to know more about what he thinks about attacking Syria and Iran ...

[Gloria]

10. Geraldo quoted Abazaid and even wondered if the trial/execution of

Saddam would make the Sunnis want to give up....Clark said, no way.

Clark was pessimistic on everything. When Geraldo wondered how we could "win" when we were down to 1 Iraqi battlion and asked Clark what he thought, Clark, without hesitation, said that Geraldo was right in his doubts.

It really was quite shift of emphasis....

[welshTerrier2]

13. link to either video or transcript?

if anyone gets a link, it would be great to see or read ... what's the name of the show and what station is it on? ... maybe they have a website ...

perhaps it's time for Clark to write an updated essay on his Iraq views ...

[Gloria]

17. It was Geraldo's show on FAUX tonight 10 pm ET

I don't know if they do transcripts or video.

I taped it, so I have it for future reference....

[welshTerrier2]

20. thanks ...

no wonder i had no idea about the show ... i never watch that network ...

[Texas_Kat]

18. Please don't leave the implication hanging out there

"about what he thinks about attacking Syria and Iran".

I know you didn't mean that you think he believes we should...... but it would be nice if you'd reword it.....

maybe "i'd like to know more about what he thinks about Bush attacking Syria and Iran ..."

[welshTerrier2]

22. well, OK ...

"i'd like to know more about what he thinks about bush attacking Syria and Iran ..."

you have re-phrased my question exactly as i intended it !!

[Texas_Kat]

23. Thanks for clarifying anyway.

There's waaaay too much misunderstanding going 'round lately.

I truly appreciate your good humor about it.

:hi:

[Clarkie1]

24. He thinks it's as nutty as calling them "the axis of evil."

Clark say on almost every appearance he makes that we need to be TALKING to Iran and Syria, which shrub is not doing.

From today's appearance on "Geraldo":

"But, the problem has always been - a diplomatic problem, involving Syria and Iran who want pieces of that country. They want their people to have those pieces...So we've got just a few weeks left to try to put a regional dialogue together around the presence of our troops. We've got to keep the training going, but we've got to have a way to get out of there, keeping in mind the larger problem of the War on Terror, the protection of Israel in the region, and all of our other friends who are counting on us to do the job right."

[Maraya1969]

11. Off topic a little but I will never forget Bill Reilly telling General

Clark how to fight in Iraq. What a freaking jerk that man is! And while falafel man is spewing stupid stuff Clark was very poised and respectable. If it was me I think I would have smacked that falafel up the side of his head.

[Jai4WKC08]

55. Clark on O'Reilly tonite, I think

Hasn't been announced by WesPAC yet, but Fox was running ads all last nite and he's listed on the schedule at 8pm edt on their website.

[CarolNYC]

68. Well, this should be interesting....

It is posted on securingamerica.com now. Looks like he'll be on at the beginning of the show...

[LittleClarkie]

14. Kerry's window is up in December, according to what he told Cindy

I wonder if both of them will be saying the same thing pretty soon, re: get them out. Kerry's comment was if we aren't going to do what we said we were going to do in Iraq re: stabilizing it, then he doesn't want any more lives wasted.

I expect "do or die" for alot of people is coming up now, with the elections in December. If things don't improve after that, I expect support to go down even more.

[capi888]

15. Wes Clark Loves His Country and his Soldiers!

Wes put his experience and knowledge out there for the BushCo to sieze upon to resolve the issues with Iraq. They said, the Dems didn't have a plan, however, it was before them all the time, via Wes. The situation has become a travisty. He has suggested a direction to the current Gov't time and time again, however, because of political views, they didn't heed his warnings. The window is closing, few weeks left, before the whole Country goes up in smoke. I have no doubt, after watching Wes tonight, that he is saddened by the incompitence of this Administration policies, while our sons and daughters are dying for a war that cannot be won!
Now people are beginning to realise that Wes Clark has been dead on with the analogy of the War in Iraq! We cannot win, with the policies of the Bush Administration...
What a horrible mess we are in....

[Clarkie1]

16. I missed Geraldo, but this makes sense.

Clark has always said there was a limited window of opportunity in Iraq, and if that window passed then in effect a plan B takes the place of plan A. It's contingency planning.

I can't comment anymore until I see the transcript or video.

[Clarkie1]

21. TRANSCRIPT

"General Wesley K. Clark and Geraldo Rivera - At Large with Geraldo Rivera" - 10.02.2005
"General Wesley K. Clark and Geraldo Rivera - At Large with Geraldo Rivera" transcript
Fox News
October 2, 2005
Geraldo Rivera: Commanding General John Abizaid of Central Command told Tim Russert today on Meet The Press that he doesn't see any reason we won't be reducing our forces following December's Iraqi elections, assuming successful elections. General Wesley Clark joins us, former NATO Commander. General, what am I missing here? I just don't, I just don't get how we can promise, or even with the the ifs that he gave, announce to the American people that there is going to be a draw down of forces when our commanders on the ground are saying we don't have enough to hold the ground.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Geraldo, we've never had enough troops in Iraq. That's simply a fact. And, if you look at the scale of Anbar province and consider that we've got one battalion plus of a thousand troops out there working on one village in that province, you realize how overwhelming the problem is. But, what's missing in the Abizaid statement is the assumption that he's making that the Iraqi's are going to be increasingly well-trained and we'll be able to turn over a lot of the fighting to them. The thinking is, that with the Iraqi troops coming up and getting better trained and more capable of fighting insurgents, and that if the Sunnis will participate in the election, and if a government will form - that will take the recruiting draw out of the al Qaeda forces and out of the insurgents. The U.S. forces will leave and the Iraqi government will be able to carry on. It's a theory.

Geraldo Rivera: It's a theory but I think it's, I, I hesitate to put it this way General, but to me it's very cruel to the families of the G.I.'s serving over there, and I think it's misleading to the American people, I, I have to be frank with you, having been there six times, I don't think there is any way, absent walking away from that situation, now there's only, as I understand it, there's only one brigade of truly combat trained, combat ready Iraqi's right now. I don't know, I would guess, you would need at least twenty to, to have any hope of holding that that violent country against these, these scum insurgents. They're not insurgents, they're terrorists who blow up anybody. They are attacking Shiite civilians. Mothers, women, children. You know I just don't see it.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Geraldo, I think you are right. I think the mission is in great trouble. It's been in trouble for a while. We never really began it the right way. The military is doing everything they can to hold it together, given the resources they've got. But, the problem has always been - a diplomatic problem, involving Syria and Iran who want pieces of that country. They want their people to have those pieces. The Kurds really want independence. You are going to see infighting politically between the Kurds and Shiites. You've got Shiite militia that are fighting each other underneath the presence of the British down in the southern region. So there are explosive tendencies in this country that are liable to break loose on us. What the military is trying to do is stick with the plan. I honor those troops that serve. I love them. I know General Casey, General Abizaid. They are some of the greatest officers we have ever had in the Army, but, this mission never started the right way. It's never had the resources we need. It's never had the leadership at the top. It's never done the diplomacy in the region, and the truth is what General Abizaid said in his testimony on Thursday, "we're part of the problem when we're there." We have to get our troops out of there. We just have to do it the right way so we can leave behind a hope of something better than a seething al Qaeda recruiting hotbed.

Geraldo Rivera: General, I have a final question. I was just with a, a Colonel I was with in Iraq, a wonderful man, who suggests that perhaps the trial of Saddam Hussein, and his conviction, if he is indeed convicted, and we assume based on the, the mountain of evidence that there exists against this man in his own words, in his own documents, that he will be convicted, and ultimately executed. That, that might be the, you know the point of no return for some of the Sunnis to say, hey wait a second, he's not coming back. The old Baathist days are not coming back. Let me jump in on the future. Let me participate and so at lest shred or shed from the insurgency the Sunni mainstream and leave just the ah, you know the al-Zawahiri fanatics, that slender minority of the Iraqi's to fight us.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I would be surprised. In fact, the Saudi Foreign Minister was here last week. Made a very pessimistic assessment. You heard tonight, probably on the wire services that I think our readers have heard, our listeners have heard that the Kurdish President has called on the Shiite Prime Minister to get out of the government saying he's to factional. He's to divisive in the government. This is not going well on the ground. I'm afraid the trial of Saddam Hussein is simply going to aggravate the ethnic tensions. So we've got just a few weeks left to try to put a regional dialogue together around the presence of our troops. We've got to keep the training going, but we've got to have a way to get out of there, keeping in mind the larger problem of the War on Terror, the protection of Israel in the region, and all of our other friends who are counting on us to do the job right.

Geraldo Rivera: General Wesley Clark, thank you very much. I appreciate it, sir.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you Geraldo.

[Tom Joad]

25. Is this war mismanaged? Or is it a crime?

From what i read here, Mr. Clark seems to think this the central idea here is that it is mismanaged. (Of course, one could say it is a mismanaged crime, but i am not getting that here)

What we should be doing is demanding the Troops Out Now. I do not want another invasion, to come in a year or two, with promises of "this war will be better managed".

No, this war is a crime. It is not merely a "mistake".

We must tell every politician demand our troops to get the hell out now, we do not want to hear a strategy that leaves us there for another year. The troops should be withdrawn unconditionally. If they do not favor this, they must tell us why their children (or better, they themselves) are not on the frontlines.

[Clarkie1]

26. I do not believe Clark has ever used the word "crime" explicitly.

He has, however, said it was an unnecessary war...and we should only go to war as a last resort, and only when absolutely necessary for our national security.

[FrenchieCat]

27. I don't think that "General" Wes Clark

is addressing the "crime" issue of Iraq in his two questions 4 minutes (appearance)...

Clark's statement of "a few weeks" is the most "immediate" that has been suggested by any Leading Dem thus far.

Think "Exit Strategy"...because that's the place the General is at now... it seems.

[wiley]

40. Rumsfeld and Cheney must be picking each others' skin off

over Wes Clark. They just hate that he is right.

[Clark2008]

44. We must, must we?

I don't agree with you that we demand our troops out now without an exit strategy that wouldn't leave Iraq to spiral into another Afghanistan, so I WON'T be demanding any such thing.

Not all Democrats (or Democratic-voting independents) agree with you, Tom, so, to make that blanket statement is pointless.

[Gloria]

29. Important reflection--I have to say Clark seemed pretty dejected about

all this, he pursed his lips and looked pretty downbeat. Which, he would, of course. This is one time I'm sure he wishes he could be wrong. I think he's terribly worried about whether it's even possible to pull troops out of there safely, as per his original plan. It looks like the disintegration is just going to make that difficult if not impossible.

Just yesterday I was reading in the foriegn press about the British forces. How they may even be in danger of being DRIVEN OUT, overrun by insurgent forces. It just is simply unbelievable, what a mess this has become.

[CarolNYC]

31. thanks

Thanks, Gloria, for posting this.....Thanks, Clarkie1, for posting the transcript.

I do hope a video does show up because I haven't seen it but, from what I've heard, you're right Gloria and he did seem very very pessimistic about where the situation is right now...What a mess!

[FourStarDemocrat]

42. It's understandable-our troops are struggling under *'s misguided policies

They were forced to go in under false pretenses, thousands have been killed and injured, and we are in a worse quagmire than ever with only 1 Iraqi battalion out of a hundred properly trained and equipped to defend themselves 2& a half years after being "liberated". Clark really loves this country and our troops. He's said in the past that we HAVE to make good in Iraq now that we're there, so it probrably hurts him to see that Bushco is continuing to make this an impossible situation. And yes, Britain now is expected to pull out in the near future. I don't blame Clark for being depressed and pessimistic over this, as most in the 'reality -based' community are.

[blm]

48. It was plain to see. No statesman wants the forces to fail.

The fact is that Republicans don't understand the military and/or other cultures enough to win any war anymore.

[Texas_Kat]

61. Grim, Gloria.....

Clark looked very grim.....

[Avis]

32. Change of heart

I have been arguing this war with an elderly gentleman for weeks. He was so convinced that Bush knew what he was doing. Tonight he sent me an email that said he had watched Clark (no doubt because it is his favorite channel) - but that he now really believes there is little hope that we can make things right in Iraq. I can't believe it - he really is starting to believe this is wrong.

[FrenchieCat]

33. Well it's good to know that Wes is making a "dent" in the Fox "dens",

aka, Fox viewer's family rooms. The more we grow the percentage of those who understand the futility of Bush in Iraq, the quicker we'll be able to minimize this nightmare!

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Wow. Evidence that Clark actually is having an impact

by being on Faux News. Thanks for the account.

[CarolNYC]

36. Avis

thanks for that account...Hopefully, Wes is reaching some others too...

[Clark2008]

45. Wow!

Another voter flipped.

Wow.

Thanks for telling us of this story, Avis.

[Donna Zen]

34. General Clark has been against this entire war from the beginning.

Nevertheless, he also doesn't want the outcome to be as bloody and dire for our future as it is shaping up to be.

I was not surprised to hear that he had "necked" it down to a few weeks. The latest ICG report was essentially saying that, and since Clark is part of that group, one would think that he had some input into that statement.

It important to understand how Clark has described his thinking process. One begins with many possibilities and so one can take those possibilities and look for a solution. With each change in the situation, the number of possible solutions is lessened, things change.

Unlike politicians, Clark doesn't spin. This is not about "his" positioning for 05, 06, or 0-anything. This is about what is, what will probably happen, what he sees from what he knows--and he has forgotten more than most people will ever know. He doesn't shit around with the truth when it comes to life and death.

I once told WT2, when Clark says get out...it is time to pack. I stand by that statement.

Unmaking Iraq/ICG

[Donna Zen]

37. Latest Front page of the ICG

6 World conflicts

snip....

Six conflict situations around the world deteriorated in September 2005, according to the new issue of CrisisWatch. Iraq is heading toward de facto partition and full-scale civil war. The International Atomic Energy Agency voted to report Iran to the UN Security Council for violating its obligations under the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. The situations in Côte d'Ivoire, Kyrgyzstan, Mozambique and Thailand also deteriorated.

[CarolNYC]

38. you know,

We sit around here arguing over who said what when and what does it mean...even discussing with glee the possibility of folks like DeLay going to jail...but the fact of the matter is that the world is going to hell in a handbasket and there's not a hell of a lot we can do to stop it right now...It's a very scary world and becoming scarier every day....with no light at the end of the tunnel that I can see right now. :(

[Donna Zen]

39. Which is why Carol

....I keep supporting Wes Clark. I trust him, which is more than I can say about just about any politician. Oh sure, there are a few. But do they understand the world, and do they have the credentials to be trusted by the American people on both sides of the aisle?

I'm for one am not filled with glee.

[ElectroPrincess]

43. Nope, Clark merely educated the Right Wingers about how

they could pull out of Iraq with their political a** intact.

He did nobody any favors because soon it will be made to sound like it was "The Administration's" original idea.

How many ways can one say *we're screwed" without an independent media?

Clark is a highly intelligent survivor. But no, I'm not Idol worshiping the man just yet. ;)

[Donna Zen]

46. So would you rather get out with more dead?

"It doesn't matter who gets the credit, what matters is getting the job done." ~WKC

I don't give a f**k who gets the credit, I want out with the least possible death. We've had enough.

[CarolNYC]

53. yeah,

I'm thinking that how Bush is going to look coming out of this is not high on Clark's list of priorities when the lives of our men and women, the lives of the Iraqi men, women and children, and the lives of countless others who will be affected by how this all plays out are at stake.

[blm]

47. I find it very interesting in that he and Kerry are still so in sync on

this and yet the media still claims the Dems have nothing to offer on Iraq.

Kerry said on his return from Iraq last month that there was about a 2 month window for the military to turn this around. I don't see how BushInc can do that since they refuse to alter their own failed strategies.

I believe that Clark and Kerry probably talk more to other world leaders than Bush does.

[Totally Committed]

50. At this point, if I were a world leader,

I would talk to anyone but the Bush Administration on Iraq!

What an effing mess they have made!

[NCarolinawoman]

73. The Clark family and the Kerry family seemed to have grown close during

campaign 2004. I think Clark and Kerry had respect for each other despite the old wounds from the primaries. Clark wore himself out campaigning for Kerry/Edwards more than most people realize. Also, after the election, Chris Heinz hosted a small get-together for General Clark and some of Clark's local grassroots supporters in Heinz's NY apartment. I think this was early last spring.

During John Kerry's first debate with the Shrub, it was Wes Clark whom Kerry chose to be back- stage to furnish moral support, advice, etc. Each candidate could choose one person for this. (Did "W" choose Rove or Karen Hughes?)

Anyway, my point to all this is that it may still be possible that the two of them confer with each other and are friends; all politics aside.

[blm]

76. They've been friends for many years. When Kerry testified for gays to be

allowed to serve openly in the military, it was Clark who backed him up on that. Not many Dems came forward then, but I'll never forget that Clark was one of them who didn't leave Kerry hanging out there on his own with such an emotional and divisive issue.

[1932]

49. Gloria, are you sure you're not making a big leap there?

In the second last question he says we have to get the troops out, but we have to do it the right way. He doesn't explain what the right way is except to say that Iraq can't be left as a hotbed for Al Q. recruitment. At TPM Cafe for One recently, he said that the right way had to do with "success" -- a term he defined partly in a reply to a question from welshTerrier2 where he suggested that it meant that we create a government in Iraq with which we do not have to fight to get oil.

In response to Geraldo's last question, Clark says that there's only a small window of opportunity to get things right in Iraq in terms of other countries accepting US troop presence.

Clark doesn't say explicitly in this interview that the troops should pull out once that window closes. For all you know, once that window closes, Clark's answer to the other question would still take precendence: we wouldn't be able to pull troops out if it would leave behind a hotbed for Al Q. recruitment despite the fact that neighboring countries didn't accept the US troop presence.

I believe he said in another interview (he definitely does not say it in this one) that the public would be right to ask for the troops to be removed if no progress is made in 6 months. This is a statement that cuts both ways. To some it might sound like a deadline for getting things right after which we leave if things aren't right, but to others it might sound like he's saying that Cindy Sheehan is jumping the gun on demanding troop withdrawal and we need to wait 6 months before we start asking that question. He doesn't say that the government should listen to the public in six months. He's just saying that the public can start asking that question.

I don't think this Geraldo transcript brings anyone closer to understanding what Clark thinks should be the circumstances that precede troop withdrawal, other than to say it is the long term goal for the US, and it has to follow some notion of success (which is nothing new from Clark or for anyone). Although you can infer that he's saying there should be a troop pull out when the "window closes" that certainly isn't explicit and it's not the only possible reading from this statement. Furthermore, to do that, you have to link two separate responses to two separate questions that Clark doesn't link himself. It's seems to be a big inferrential leap that isn't justified by the transcript to this interview.

[Gloria]

63. What struck me was the emphasis he put on getting the troops out

and how he characterized Abazaid's happy time scenarios as "theory."

He's HASN'T gone as far as to say that there would be an immediate pullout or a timetable, a la Feingold. But he shifted from pushing his part of the plan that features getting all the nations in the region to meet, diplomacy, etc. first, to saying that in a few weeks any chance will be gone and that we'll have to look at getting the troops out.

How that happens is another issue....it is possible that the diplomacy part would be rejiggered once some sort of withdrawal was in the works.

All I'm saying is that Clark shifted his "weighting" of his view of what's going on. Things are deteriorating politically within the country which seems to be heightening his sense of gloom. He dropped any talk of a "success strategy" in Iraq, that's for sure....

[1932]

69. I don't think he's has joined up those two ideas as clearly as

you're saying they are joined (ie, the window and the pull-out).

Norman Solomon said about Clark's position on Iraq that he has "blended criticism with ambivalence, equivocation and even triumphalism." Clark's M.O., in my opinion, is ambiguity. Part of him appeals to the people who are afraid and have given in to the Republicans' frame for reality and want a war-time president who will pursue matters in Iraq until victory or "success." Another part of him needs to convince progressive democrats that he's some version of anti-war that progressives will embrace.

I think your take on this interview reveals another case where Clark is sufficiently ambigous so that if you're progressive, you see what you want in him, and if you're not, you could see other things in him. He's playing both sides of the fence. He has used the idea of pulling out the troops in one paragraph, in response to one question, and he has said "window" in other paragraph in response to another question. If you want to believe the US should stick it out, well, you have Clark saying we're not leaving until we've left behind something that won't breed terror. If you want to believe that he's setting a time frame for withdrawing troops, you can infer that as well (which, for a crazy, but obvious, reason, is the way the entire anti-war argument has been pigeon-holed -- either you're for a withdrawal time table or you're for continued occupation; why can't anyone simply talk about whether soverign nations are really soverign or if they have to be made in the image America chooses for them?).

In any event, Clark's statement is much too vague to be claiming that he's made a radical shift from previous postions. I agree that he's dropped his oft-repeated clarion call for talking with neighboring nations in this interview, but it's not as if that's incompatible with what he's saying here. Furthermore, given that he has constantly criticized Bush's tactical calls for Iraq, I'm not sure how significant it is that he seems glum about prospects. It's just another way to say, with body langugage, the same thing he has consistently said about the Bush strategy.

If anything, this transcript (and your representation of it) is another example of the "ambiguity" strategy.

It's like when one "meets" with Cindy Sheehan. FAIR did a report on CounterSpin last Th/Fri on McCain's meeting with Sheehan, and you could see a lot of the things they were saying about the media portrayal of McCain apply to some things I saw written here at DU about similar meeting (or appearance at the same event) with Sheehan by a certain person. With McCain, the ambiguity of both meeting with someone who is anti-war and not being for a pull out enabled Tweety and others to cast McCain in light that was favorable from all angles -- from left and right and CounterSpin poked some holes in that fabrication.

[BootinUp]

67. You're good.

You avoid ever quoting Clark as you misinterpret and/or twist the words in his every statement . I advise anyone reading 1932's interesting take to go search out Clark's actual statements for yourself.

[1932]

70. It's not so much that I am good,

as it is that this is obvious from reading the transcript of this interview.

I also encourage people to read Clark's actual words.

They're above in this very thread in the post that indicates that it includes the transcript.

[Ice4Clark]

51. VIDEO of Wes on Geraldo

He was brilliant as usual. Yes, somber but he knows way more of what's going on over there then we can even imagine. It's clear, the window of opportunity he's spoken of so often is nearly closed and his heart and concern is with the men and women in uniform. If we must leave, we need to withdraw with minimal casualties and hopefully not leave Iraq in total civil war, which is what he and all of us have feared. Our loss of the peace will forever haunt us as a nation.

CLIP

[CarolNYC]

52. thanks much, Ice! n/t

[Totally Committed]

58. Thanks, Ice!

I didn't get to watch last night.

[FrenchieCat]

71. Yes, thanks very much Ice!

[AX10]

75. Thanks!

[sadiesworld]

56. Gen. Clark putting the moves on Geraldo Rivera?

Who knew?
:P

[Totally Committed]

57. Disturbing and funny... at the same time.

Geraldo.... ugh!

:rofl:

[npincus]

59. never was a big Clark supporter BUT

if he the Dem who pledges to get us the hell out of Iraq NOW then he is my guy for 2008.

[Nederland]

60. Clark is Gay?

I never knew that. :)

[BootinUp]

62. lol. n/t

[nvliberal]

72. Took the words right off the my keyboard.

It's sort of like the thread title which said Ted Nugent was "turning on" Bush.

[FrenchieCat]

77. I don't know.....

But his wife seems happy and satified. :shrug:

LOL!

[FreedomAngel82]

64. Besides a pull out I think

that is the only thing left. To get the other countries involved. I remember back in January Kerry did a mid-east tour and talked to other leaders in the area. According to him they were all ready to send their troops in to help with boarder control etc. but Bush hasn't taken them up on their offer. *sigh* He doesn't give a damn about this "nobel mission" in Iraq. Just getting the oil to make tons of money.

[AX10]

74. Go Wes Go!

This is why I support him. He's honest and has the plan!

:dem:

[roseBudd]

78. I quote Clark in my antiwar flyer, download, print and distribute it...

download:

http://bushcheated04.com/war2.pdf

[BootinUp]

79. nice flyer, good choice of quotes. n/t

[roseBudd]

81. Flyering is incredibly easy. We can be the media if enough of us flyer

I do select car windshields, political books at the library, and the display window of empty free newspaperr racks at bus stops.

[Kahuna]

80. Wes is a treasure and a gift to us Democrats... I'm said for the

"Democrats" who can't see it.

[AX10]

82. thanks again.