I can't believe we missed this and is the meaning behind Bin Laden tape

[AnIndependentTexan]

The tape wasn't meant to say bad things about Bush it is a warning to the American people. Stop listening to the spin and pay attention to this because it is something we have talked about here at DU.

The warning is that if the American people RE-ELECT George W Bush then AMERICANS will be responsible and not the policy. It is a warning that if Bush wins the election they will hold us fully responsible and come after all of us. The attack would only happen if we re-elect Bush. We have wondered what the world would think and they are warning us big time!

[Francesca]

1. my husband and I agree

totally with your logic and have been discussing the tape for the last few hours.

[ewagner]

2. Sort of got that sense

immediately............

OBL is a maniac....a killer....but the rest of the world is holding US, the citizens of the United States accountable for OUR CHOICE and OBL is echoeing that.

[aquart]

8. True. But the cockroach is not entitled to dictate our choices.

Just because he agrees with us, does not give him validity or status. He remains a cockroach.

[The Magistrate]

13. Well Said, Sir

Whoever is elected, the country wants him to squash Bin Laden like a bug and poop on the goo....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[ewagner]

21. Wasn't implying

that OBL gets to set the rules....

the rule (Americans can ratify or reject Shrub's disasterous foreign policy) is already in place in the mind of most of the civilized world.

OBL is echoeing it for his own, murderous purposes......

OBL is a lying murdering son-of-a-bitch

[The Magistrate]

30. No Implication Against You, Sir, Was Intended

Please accept my apology for not making that clear in my comments.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Rose Siding]

50. "...poop on the goo"

There's something wrong with me. The Magistrate said "poop" and it's cracking me up.

What a day. First the Pentagon presser's comedic value is cut short by botched Bush confetti, then OBL goes all psych-out new age on us.

Poop. ROFLMAO I'm coming apart here!

[yardwork]

20. The enemy of our enemy is still our enemy

[jefferson_dem]

36. Bingo! The last thing we need is a lecturing from that sick-fuck asshole

about who we should select as president. We sure don't need to be told how important this election is. Some here may not agree, but this election is a "within family" squabble. And he needs to butt the fuck out.

That said, let's crush the hell out of chimpy next Tuesday...for the simple fact that OBL is still around to spew his shit, if nothing else.

[gardenista]

39. Agreed. And this should be part of Kerry's response, IMHO. nt

[American liberal]

66. Ted Koppel said the same thing during his closing comments tonight...

although not in so many words.

[feistydem]

3. If we re-(s)elect Bush the whole WORLD will hate us.

[clydefrand]

4. I agree with you because there is no other way IMHO that

you could interpret his message saying that we will be responsible for further attacks.

[KittyWampus]

5. i agree. just cause many americans have their heads up their butts

doesn't mean the rest of the world does.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. that was what i took away from the translation..but i wish i spoke farsi

i don't trust bush*s WH translations

[rullery]

32. FYI Farsi is the language of Iran, or Persia.

Bin Laden speaks Arabic, not Farsi.

[southern democrat]

7. I am totally for Kerry.

With that said, George Bush will scare me into voting against Kerry. And Osama will not scare me into voting against Bush. I am voting FOR John Kerry.

[polmaven]

15. But many people out there do NOT

have the intelligence to come to that kind of a conclusion. Bush is counting on the ignorance that fear can breed in many, many people who are too intellectually lazy to do their own thinking.

[Hello_Kitty]

45. Yeah but they're already his base so I don't think he'll pick any up

I don't believe there are really any undecideds left either.

[txindy]

53. True, but the ones who will respond are KoolAid drinkers and for B*sh now

B*sh gains nothing from this. Are the college students voting against B*sh and the possibility of a draft going to suddenly vote for him and volunteer to go to Iraq because of this tape? No. If anything, those on the fence will go to Kerry because OBL suddenly makes a reappearance on their TV three entire years after Bush's "Dead or Alive" bluster.

I like Ron Reagan's response to this tonight on Buchanan's show. Paraphrasing, "This will not change the outcome of the election. Anyone who changes his vote because of this tape needs to be taken out back and hit in the head with a shovel." LOL!

[rocktivity]

76. Osama wants Bush to remain in office. That's why he spoke out against him.

If we've gotten a correct translation of the tape, and if the speaker really is bin Laden, he's implying that it would be in America's best interests to vote for Kerry because he would act more "responsibly". But Osama's trying to set us up just as much as Rove is.

The purpose of the tape is to get us to resent Osama for trying to influence the election and vote for Bush in retaliation. But why WOULDN'T Osama want Bush to remain in office? He's is an Al-Qaeda recruitment poster boy, unable to justice ahead of greed, and most important, hasn't been competent enough to catch him! Why in the world would he trade all that for the intangibles that Kerry would bring to the table?


rocknation

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

9. I really don't give a shit what mass murderers say

that goes for OBL and bush.

But I get your point, yes.

He seemed very calm and soft-spoken, weird. Not the way I expected him to be.

[RBHam]

10. Bin Laden just reads the script...

The Black Ops people write it...

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. It looks like OBL

and Hamid Karzai go to the same tailor.

Besides the camera is too far away to know who the hell the actor in the video really is.

[UpsideDownFlag]

29. "It looks like OBL and Hamid Karzai go to the same tailor."

you think? they're both from the same region and culture. do you share a tailor with anyone in your neighborhood?



there are good points to be made about the bush/saudi/bin laden connection...that wasn't one of them.

[rocktivity]

43. Ding Ding Ding! RBHam, you're our grand prize winner!

Now that there's reasonable doubt as to the authenticity of the tape, I find it quite odd that "Osama" would confess to being behind 9/11 and mention that Bush fiddled while the second WTC burned. What a perfect way to build up sympathy for Bush!


rocknation

[LibertyorDeath]

71. Thank You!

"Bin Laden just reads the script..."

The Black Ops people write it...

Can you believe this shit 4 days to go & like magic up pops

The Boogie man.

God they must think we're Wankers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. So OBL Is Saying To Vote For Kerry...

If folks take away that mesage OBL couldn't have given Bush a bigger gift...


Actually OBL is using reverse psychology he wants Bush to win because it's good for recruitment...

[roseBudd]

25. I think OBL is saying pay attention to the hypocritical policies of

our government. The majority of Americans are so self-centered it has never occured to them to wonder why Palestinians are willing to blow themselves up.

It's always been about the policies. And the bases in Saudi Arabia.

[AnIndependentTexan]

37. bingo

[Wind Dancer]

62. I agree with rosebud57, post 25!

"I think OBL is saying pay attention to the hypocritical policies of
our government. The majority of Americans are so self-centered it has never occured to them to wonder why Palestinians are willing to blow themselves up.

It's always been about the policies. And the bases in Saudi Arabia."

Worth repeating!

[newsguyatl]

12. you are exactly right

but this can't be said in mainstream, b/c it'd come across as if we were "listening to" obl and "obeying" him.

but you're ABSOLUTELY right on target.

"neither bush nor kerry can protect you," only YOU can.

IOW, DON'T reelect this fool, or you'll have to pay the consequences.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Cuz He Wants Bush To Win...

Bush is God's gift to terrorists...


They should have a picture of him with the caption "Uncle George Wants You"...

[Kingshakabobo]

31. It's the the Colonel Klink syndrome. Osama wants the chimp at the helm

[carolinalady]

78. I don't think he cares which one is in office.....

I interpreted him as saying that the Am. people better start pressuring our government SOON to do something with Israel and Iraq or he is going to attack regardless of who the President is. I also do not think he will attack this week. I think he has just set something in motion that will occur in the next several months but at the same time using the waiting time by acting as if he is giving us time to fix these problem. One anylyst said this on TV and I agree. I think more moderate Arabs have been pressuring him to tone down the rhetoric to increase recruitment.

[txindy]

52. I can see that.

I thought that's what he was saying, too. I've always thought the world would blame us, the American people, if we re-elect B*sh -- or allow him to steal the election, again. They blame B*sh now, but they'll blame us, too, if we don't stop him. And we're the only ones who can.

[BruceWane]

16. Well, I would say that it seems more like

our security does not hinge upon Bush per se, but upon the actions that result from our policies. Granted, those actions that would certainly occur during a second Bush term would severely jeopordize security, but Bush's re-election alone won't kick off terrorist attacks. If Kerry won and somehow became brain damaged enough to continue th heavy-handedness of the current administration, we'd be in the same danger.

It's a warning the the american people need to keep a tighter leash on the actions of our government, regardless of who is occupying the oval office.

[Mr_Spock]

18. Hmmm, I was about to say that you're crazy

Then I finished reading and said - yeah, I think you are right!

[The Wielding Truth]

19. Well haven't you felt responsible all along? We are supposed to

elect representatives who do our will. Too bad we got a stray wire that runs it's own machine. Now if he is reelected the majority will be charged with approving of his actions. He won't win . People have to be sick of this.

[BruceWane]

24. Sure, *I* have felt responsible all along,

but the vast majority of americans are completely disconnected. They don't understand foreign policy for shit, because it's complicated and they can't be bothered to put in any time and effort to understand it because The Apprentice is on the tube. Idiots and their priorities.

It's a big, big wake up call, and it's in a manner that is a lot clearer than 9/11/01. A shot across the bow. Pay attention, or the next shot is gonna do damage.

[baltodemvet]

22. Osama Hates America--period.

Don't burn your braincells trying to play this record backwards.

He probably prefers Bush because he's so stupid: "Oh, no! Please don't throw me into that briar patch bre'r Shrub!" But make no mistake about it--he hates us and everything we stand for DEM, REP not a dimes woth to him.

[zinsky]

23. Good Call!!!!!!

If the cowboy-booted moron gets re-selected, look out! We may see the first suitcase nuke exploded in the U.S. - perhaps several simultaneously in different cities. That is a signature of al-Qaeda's.

I hope more people pick up on this subtle but powerful insinuation. Not that we should let this mass-murdering fruit loop dictate who is our president, but to me, bin Laden has opened the door to reconciliation with the Muslim world - if we throw Bush out the door.

One moral lesson I wish we would all learn from these past few years is this:

We will NEVER kill our way to peace!

[Rev_Karl]

26. Don't listen to Bin Laden at all...

It doesn't matter what he said. Take away his power and ignore him. He's a fundamentalist ass. Your feelings about the election should be no different than yesterday because of this. He gave up his political rights as a human when he approved the murder of innocents. It doesn't matter what he says at all because he is a mass murderer. NEVER take advice from the like of Bin Laden, Manson, Jim Jones, Hitler, Stalin etc. They must have no influence - ever.

You may agree with some of the things he says or not, but it doesn't matter. Because he cannot gain legitimacy through murder.

It doesn't matter what he says because he can't be trusted. No one who supports unjust killing should have ANY influence whatsoever.

We'll vote for whoever we want. Hopefully everyone will do what they think is right. I don't care what anyone says, celebrity, terrorist, shill or blowhard.

I supported Kerry yesterday because he is a good, smart, thoughtful man and I will do the same on Tuesday. A good person votes their conscience and I'm sure you will.

[wanpete]

27. I agree totally!

Osama is truly a depraved madman. But, with all that said, I truly think he was trying to encourage Americans to think and not to just be lead blindly by spin, fear, and emotion.

[Robbie67]

28. Think about the rest of the world

Consider what everybody else (not bin Laden) will think about the US if George W. is elected. That will be the end of American pre-eminence in the world.

[pauliedangerously]

75. You got that right

A lot of fine people will move from this country if Bush is re-elected, and we will be the laughingstock of the planet.

[Gregorian]

33. It's independent of the president.

It has everything to do with our foreign policy. Which has quite a lot to do with energy consumption.
He just told us what some of us knew already- stay away. Stop meddling.


Two major differences with Kerry are-
He's not an oil man.
He advocates alternatives to petroleum.

[lynintenn]

34. exactly what I thought when I heard it

[GreenPoet64]

35. Sadly, I think you are right.

[gardenista]

38. Totally agree. HOWEVER. Soon after taking office, Kerry, in the course

of his duties, despite his superior intellect, and the fact that he lives in the REAL world, will do something, at some time, to piss off Bin Laden, and we'll be in the same boat.

I completely get what you're saying. But it goes without saying that Kerry will go after Bin Laden with both barrels as soon as he takes office. I'm sure Bin Laden knows this.

It is an intersting situation, and interesting to speculate on Bin Laden's true motives.

[arewenotdemo]

42. Given the usual duplicity of American foreign policy

is it really beyond the pale to suggest that bin Laden believes (now that he has won the war by finishing off Bush) that Kerry may be open to negotiation?

Don't forget that he was once one of our guys in Afghanistan.

[gardenista]

54. No way. Bin Laden knows this is a fight to the death. He loves that

He is an extremist. No negotiation.

If I thought for a second that Kerry would negotiate with Bin Laden, I would be working actively against him. Now, I *do* know that Bush would do *anything* for oil. That is why we're all fighting like hell to oust him.

[arewenotdemo]

58. Not suggesting that Kerry would negotiate with OBL

I agree he never will. But I am wondering if bin Laden may be tired and think that suicide is for the little guys like Atta. The same way that the Chicken-in-Chief thinks that the fighting and dying is for the little guys.

[gardenista]

60. I think he's too crazy to think of negotiating. Kinda like Nader. nt

[AnIndependentTexan]

40. rosebud57 in post 25 also picked up on the meaning

[DemocracyInaction]

41. We had a poster a few nights ago who

either lived abroad or was in contact with friends abroad. He said that people even in Europe do not condmen the American people for the shit of Bush and his administration. They know that the courts gave us this scum. BUT he said that the sentiment is that IF we elect this bastard in November it means that we approve of what he has done and THAT means Americans will be targeted all over the world. If we elect him, they will no longer give us the benefit of the doubt. Damn this fuckng peice of shit. There are so many places to visit in this world and so many people to get to know and this dimwit who was so incurious that he never traveled anywhere in this world with all his family money, has just closed it all down to all of us and to our children. I was looking forward to it in retirement------now I can go travel America and gaze upon the same shittin' strip malls and corporate ad tripe from sea to shining sea.

[fortyfeetunder]

59. That sums it up

There is universal disdain outside the US borders. But Bush's Murka is just so lame and clueless about it.

[geek tragedy]

44. This is extremely unfucking helpful!

Osama does not want Kerry to win. Spreading this kind of crap is the surest way to ensure four more years.

[AnIndependentTexan]

46. We aren't spreading anything step away from the tapes

Why can't people step away from the tapes and look at the message? Forget who is saying the words but think what the world is thinking while viewing us right now? This isn't a matter of Kerry or Bush, but a MATTER OF AMERICANS future with the world.

[The Magistrate]

49. One Reason, Sir

As in most every other instance, so it is in this: the messenger is far more important than the message....

"Politics ain't bean-bag."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[geek tragedy]

56. Osama bin Laden does not speak for the world.

I refuse to listen to what the man says or explore his message.

People who let bin Laden get inside their heads are being fools.

[Orangepeel]

47. Oh, bullshit

Osama doesn't care who is President. He's a nutcase that wants a holy war.

[StupidFOX]

48. He basically said, "You don't touch us, we won't touch you", but

he kinda already hit us. Sorry, war's on.

I see it more as a taunt that anything else. He suggests that no president could do what's necessary to stop him. Sounds like a challenge to me. Let's show him how the Democrats go on the hunt.

[YouLiedTheyDied]

51. Spain

Did you know they got a videotaped warning 2 days before an attack? If there is an attack Shrub will get to look like a "hero" with another photo-op before the election. I wouldn;t be surprised if Rove faked the tape and would even blow up something to steal the election. Disgusting!

[Catherine Vincent]

70. I thought of that too.

Will have to be careful this weekend.

[Nordic]

55. Osama has said that all along -- it's his rationale for killing civilians

because we live in a democracy and we approve of our leaders.

Therefore we are guilty of our leaders' crimes.

He's got a good point. It's the reason I want Bush in jail. I don't want him running around killing innocent people in my name and with my tax dollars.

[Technowitch]

57. I disagree

The message is that REGARDLESS who we elect, it's the policies that he objects to.

Anybody with half a brain knows that Shrub's inane prattling about OBL and terrorists "hating us for our freedoms" is a bunch of bullshit twaddle. They hate the fact we support oppressive dictatorial regimes when it suits us, interfere with other countries' internal affairs whenever we like, and often impose policies that grind populations into poverty.

Oh, and we then have the arrogance to insist that our 'democracy' is how they all ought to be living, and if they don't, we'll deliver it in the form of cruise missiles.

OBL's primary gripes were 'infidel' troops on Saudi soil after Gulf War I, and our knee-jerk support of Israel policies to the exclusion of giving the Palestinians anything. That's it. Not our freedoms, but very specific complaints.

And what does Shrub do? He bombs the shit out of a country that hasn't done anything to us (it was Kuwait they attacked originally, if anybody remembers), and creaties thousands of new willing martyrs to terrorism.

Yes, OBL is a violent fiend. He is a murderer and a religious fanatic. He is a terrorist.

Our problem is we have a different kind of terrorist in the White House, only he pretends to he's something else entirely.

[bloom]

61. see this thread for a good article about what other Arabs are saying...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[SoCalDem]

72. They hate us for our "meddling"

and when it comes to meddling, our foreign policy gets an Oscar.

the world is our Kleenex.

[Robert Oak]

63. I agree that's the message and unfortunately

the psychopath of the sand just said it.

even though it's probably true, I don't know what it means
and American's natural reaction is to say "fuck you" and do the opposite.

[Kimber Scott]

64. I believe you are right, however, Israeli/Palestian policy does not

seem to change much with presidents. (Except that Bush seems to have given a wink and a nod to Sharon over the past four years.) What I think he's (OBL) saying is no matter who we choose, we need to push for policy change. I don't see that happening. (We may push. I dont' see a change.) This is the moment al-Qaida and other Islamic fundamentalist terrorist organizations will point back to and say, "We offered you a chance to end this war..."

While I offer no apologies for any terrorist action, there is no excuse to harm innocent people, I also feel hopeless in knowing our government will stand, bullheadedly, on policy that is feeding the cancer in the Middle East. If an equitable solution can be reached to the Israeli/Palestinian problem the terrorist tumor that has formed around it will begin to deminish and could, conceivably, disappear.

Only my opinion, of course.

[Carolab]

65. Amen AND it also means

that if Kerry is elected, it is up to US to make sure our foreign policies don't keep us in danger. In other words, WE have to get our elected officials to turn this whole thing around.

[democratreformed]

67. I didn't need OBL to tell me that. I already knew it. n/t

[last1standing]

68. I think he's saying "Vote for bush*"!

This video was a lesson in pop psychology. By denigrating the chimp he figures he will build up anger, hatred, and fear in this country. Anger, hatred, and fear play right into both bush's and bin laden's hands.

Unfortunately, unless Kerry can turn this back on both of them with a positive message about cleaning up bush's* mess, I think it will work.

[MileHiStealth]

69. Osama's letter to America ... 2002

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,...


<snip>

3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.


<snip>


He has some very valid points ...

[Kenneth ken]

74. thanks

welcome to DU

[fizzana]

73. This also blows apart the idea that

"they hate us for our freedoms"

No they don't hate us for what we are, they hate us for what we do.

[bandy]

77. I couldn't agree more

That was my first thought! Hope fence sitters don't take this challenge and run to Bush (that was my second thought).