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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:10 AM
Original message
Honestly, I find "Nice post Hitler" offending
as a German I have to live with the general guilt over what happend in the 1930s and 1940s even though I was only born a lot later.
Now, that man did so many unbelievable and horrible things, I don't think that his name ought to be used in such a way.

My 2 cents. So please, if you wanna say it .... don't say it to me.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. I understand...
and let me take it one step further.

I was having a spirited discussion with someone very close to me about this the other day...

I am of Italian descent and was raised Roman Catholic. As I grew older, I have leaned towards having agnostic tendencies, but have not yet lost all of my "traditional" faith.

There are many good people of faith here on DU, just as there are many good agnostics and atheists.

I tend to actually cringe for the believers when God is referred to as "dog", or their faith is generally put down. People believe what is best for them to believe, and their faith need not be criticized.

I'm guilty of the Hitler thing (once), and I will apologize to you for that.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. For me, religion is a private matter
For myself I have to say I am of no religion. But I honour the faith of others and won't make funny comments about it or anything else.

The Hitler post was maybe funny every now and then (even though I didn't like it from the beginning) but I get the feeling it is posted more often these days. And I just don't like that.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is over used.
I really do not think that bad intent is there when it is used, but I can certainly understand how it would be offensive.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oh I don't doubt that
that the people don't have any bad intents. It is more that they don't really think about it. For them it is is just a funny post, for me it is a constant reminder of what Hitler did.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, I understand...
and I'm glad you posted this.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Oh, comparing God to Dog is totally out of line...
Dog needs our support and compassion, God can take care of himself.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
104. Nice post, Torquemada!
(Actually, I agree with you.)

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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. What Hitler did is so nearly inconceivable
that people are forced to use humor to diminish it.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I understand that
and I loved the movie "Life is beautiful" by anm with Roberto Benigni for example. I know that you have to make fun of it to take the horror out of it. But for some reason to read it here almost every day it isn't funny to me.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Understood, and thanks for standing up for your feelings.
:hug:
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. I think you shouldn't feel any sense
of personal responsibility for what happened in Germany before you were born.

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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I know I shouldn't
and logical I don't. But the general guilt card is still played. For example: Germany is not allowed to criticize Israel for its politics toward the Palestinians. The second someone does, Germany gets hit with the guilt card again.

And for some reason, when I read that post, it is like they compare the poster to Hitler in that moment. And that is - in my eyes - not funny.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I was born in America
and I take no responsibility for slavery or Indian massacres. I just denounce them, as I'm sure you do with Hitler. Germany has, as far as I can tell, dealt very well with its history.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. After reading "American Holocaust"
I feel guilty of being an European.

No, we shouldn't feel guilty about what happened before we were born but - as you said - we should show compassion and make sure something like that will never happen again. But as history shows, it does happen again and again. And then I wonder if people are ever learning at all.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I can understand that
I'm afraid Americans will be feeling guilt or at least responsibility for what W has done in the Middle East long after he's worm vomit.



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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Just do the world a favor
and make sure a Democrat is sworn in as president in January 2009. Then the world will be able to forgive you. :)
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I wish I could guarantee that
I think, though, that Bushco has rendered Republics unelectable, so I'm not too worried.

Of course, I and millions of others thought that in 2004, too.



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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
58. If you look at the long-term history of things...
W is fairly tame in terms of effing up the Middle East. Which is FAR more of an indictment on European history at-large than it is a cleansing of Bush.
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DarkmoonIkonoklast Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
79. (F)eeling guilt ... for what W has done in the world
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 02:01 PM by DarkmoonIkonoklast

DAMN what W has done in the world... I'm more concerned with atoning for what We, the People, have allowed the State to do in the name of the Nation!
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. I've wondered if this would come up
Americans still tend to be somewhat isolationist at least, compared to people in other countries, and probably certainly to Europeans, since going from country to country there is similar to going between U.S. states. We don't really "think globally" as much as we'd like to think we do. Add to that the fact that we've never actually experienced war, and you have a people who can sometimes be pretty insensitive to our fellow Earth dwellers.

Something else I've thought of: Whenever "Fawlty Towers" comes up, someone always mentions the episode "The Germans" and John Cleese's brain-addled "Don't mention the war!" bit. It's probably the best-known bit from the series, but I always cringe a little when it comes up because I wonder how it makes you feel.

I'm truly sorry, MissH. I wouldn't hurt you for anything. I hope you know that.



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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. I know that you wouldn't hurt me at all
and I know that you stopped saying it to me after I told you the first time. And I appreciate that.

About "Fawlty Towers" ... I laugh and cringe at the same time when I see that episode. It has some brillance in it that is undeniable. There are other episodes I can laugh more about though.

I am wondering though - about your first paragraph. The US got involved in WW2 too and Pearl Harbor was the result of Hitlers politics. Also, a lot of jewish people escaped to the US, so it isn't like the US was on a totally different planet and didn't had anything to do with it.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Yeah, I worded that badly
I meant that we've never fought a war here "on American soil," as many are oddly fond of saying and I think that contributes a great deal to the insensitivity of the right-wingers. They seem to see war as a combination of a football game and a John Wayne movie, so it's easy for them to toss about crap such as "Bomb 'em back to the Stone Age."

Incidentally, I think that's also why there was such incredible outrage and "Kill 'em all" reactions to 9.11. Such a thing had never happened here (Pearl Harbor notwithstanding; in 1941, Hawai'i qualified as "foreign soil" to many), and there was a very great sense of "Who would do this to us??" As twisted as it sounds, I think if a few U.S. cities had been bombed in WWII, many Americans might have a more compassionate attitude about war.



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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. OK, that makes a bit more sense
but then again .... you had the Civil War, which wasn't a piece of cake either. But I guess that is too far away again for people to identify with. (not sure it is the correct wording for what I want to say).
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. You're right
I'd wager the U.S. Civil War seems to most people as it does to me a part of a different America.

All the more reason we need to learn about it, and not by watching "Gone With the Wind."

Incidentally (again), I'm honestly afraid a lot of people think "Pearl Harbor" was an accurate portrayal of that battle. That's how much confidence I have in our school system.



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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. Actually...the US wasn't as helpful to Jews as most think...
If you go to the US Holocaust Museum you will find disturbing evidence that the US government (Including FDR) knew bad things were happening to Jews but didn't do much to alleviate it. AND they did actually put caps on the amount of Jews that emigrated.
I'm paraphrasing here to some extent but FDR is quoted as saying that the US needed to limit the amount of Jewish immigrants because otherwise the US would be overwhelmed by "those people". Its why so many went to Canada and even South America..easier immigration laws.
The US is guilty, of at least passive neglect. I think thats part of the reason this country is so vigorous in its defense of Israel in some ways..lingering guilt knowing that they could have done more
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Great Britain was the same
the put a limit on the amount of Jewish immigrants to let into the country.

I know there is still the question why the allies didn't bomb the train tracks to Auschwitz.
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Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
88. As were so many other Europeans countries. . nt
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DarkmoonIkonoklast Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
81. what about the laws restricting Golda Meir...
... when she came to post-war America, seeking arms for the Militia of the soon-to-be Israeli State...

   whose side were 'We, the People" officially on then?
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. Nice post
Beautiful :loveya:
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Just saying how I feel
nothing more and nothing less.
OK, maybe get the people to start thinking a bit more when they post certain things.
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I understand how you feel MissH
I have been guilty of saying that in jest in the past.
I will now stop I apologize if I have ever offended you with it.
How long should one pay for the sins of their fathers.
It sort of makes me think if this was an Iraqi board would they be saying "Nice post American".
And I also think that many know that not all Germans agreed with what Hitler did as not all Americans agree with what Bush is doing.

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Freedom Knight Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
25. Being of German decent myself, I understand how you feel.
That name has an interminable meaning with hate and torture. When you say you are German people have a flash in their eyes that you know is their minds linking that man to you by culture and country alone.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Fortunately I haven't encountered bad experiences yet
as being German. But you are right, the connection will be always there.
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DarkmoonIkonoklast Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
82. ... and wasn't the little weiner actually a Viener? Wasn't he Viennese?
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
27. I hadn't yet, now I won't
You have already stated in this thread that logically you should not take this guilt on...I agree and up to now have operated out of that premise. Sadly that premise did not cover reality well. I recall a suggestion I made awhile back in the photography forum, I thought honoring our military would make a good topic. You were far from impressed and I did not understand why. (I have met men in the German Army...they were who I had in mind when first we discussed this). Now I sense a differing reality, one where I may have pulled back a thin scab revealing a bad wound...My Apologies for that, I really never meant to be offensive, (or so thoughtless).

The world is rapidly turning into a global community, bush may be the last world leader to victimize it with his countrymen sharing the blame. Even today, the world can share some of the blame for bush. The nations of this planet have it in their power to say no to bush, to slow down his mad designs and even to stop his mad wars, yet they do no such thing. Why hasn't Germany started up economic sanctions against America? You should ya' know...so should each and every Democracy on our planet! The affairs of one affect all, the affairs of all can effect the one even more-so!

I saw your response to O.R. where you asked us to put a Democrat in power. Let me tell you that as good as that sounds, that may not solve the real problem. We ALL hope for the best, we want to believe that the Democrats will ride in on their white horses and save the day John Wayne fashion. The harsh truth is, anyone can ride a white horse.... not all Democrats are what they seem...we shall all have to wait and see. If you see a future administration act like the prior administration... well just keep that notion of economic sanctions close to hand and keep funding your military ok? Don't feel too obligated to any recent history... We The People of America may need your aid should our out of control government go further off the deep end.
c





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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Thank you chnktl
Alone the knowledge that Bush isn't any longer the pResident of the United States will give the people back hope. The hope, the diplomacy will be used again to avoid wars, not to start them.
My feelings are because of Bush, the world became a more scary place to live. He triggered of something that no one can predict how it will end.

In Germany there is a latent Anti-Americanism at the moment. The Germans don't trust Bush and were shocked when he "won" again in 2004. Now, I know that the people of the U.S. aren't equal Bush, like the people of Germany aren't equal Hitler. To say "Nice post Bush" wouldn't be well read by the people. Like I don't like to read "Nice post Hitler.

Honestly, I was more than happy when in 2002 Schrder and the SPD won and not the CDU. Because then Germany would have been part of that war in the Iraq in some way. OK, we allow the US military to use our airports and allow them to fly over Germany and I don't know what else our government allows that the public doesn't know. But at least our soldiers aren't in that mess.

No idea if I make sense or if I tried to put too many thoughts in one post :crazy:
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
28. My two cents...
I actually don't mind it, when its used in a humorous fashion (any more than nice post, Stalin)
I think as someone whose entire european relations were killed by Hitler, I do have a right to be offended by it. But I am not. Maybe because I feel that by making Hitler into a joke, we are in effect diminishing HIM (and not the horror of what he did, IMO), something I know he woould hate.
I am much more offended by people who say what was the big deal with Hitler anyway..he did do some okay things or even (and you will find this attitude here sometimes)--whats the big deal? The holocaust wasn't any worse than A,B, C..people who have indeed forgotten the true magnitude of what happened there. In fact I have been truly offended by some liberals whom, in saying war is never justified, will minimalize the Holocaust to me..Now THAT is much more offensive to me than some casual flippancy.
But I do understand why you don't find it funny.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Thank you for your post turtlensue
thank you for your openess about your family.

About your second paragraph, that people are saying Hitler did good things ... there was a scandal in Germany end of last year. A (former) German news speaker, Eva Hermann, "published two books about her concept of role male/female roles and family policy"
"She gave a public comment in a press conferecnce where she stated that the esteem for motherhood was abolished by the 68-movement along many values after they were abused by the Nazis. She explicitly distanced herself from every praise for the Nazis, but criticised the 68er's iconoclastic attempt to redefine values and traditions." (quotes from Wikipedia)

She got fired from her position. You see. Not only do Americans minimalize the horror of the Nazis, Germans do to.

Again, thank you for your post.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
42. She prefers this: "Nice post, Snyder!"
:rofl:
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. PFFFT!!!
:rofl:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
33. NIce post, Thatcher
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. I don't find your post helpful n/t
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Good grief
If you ventured into the other forums more, you'd know I'm an ardent defender of Germany's anti-Holocaust revisionist laws, and their right to prosecute people under those laws. I've been called a fascist by posters for defending this right. My best friend's grandmother lost her whole family -- entire family as in over 100 people -- at Auschwitz. I have mentioned this before.

I'm not the originator of the "Hitler" joke, and as bad as Thatcher was, she wasn't Hitler.

It is the Lounge. It was a joke to lighten a serious thread.

Whatever.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Sorry
guess I'm not in the joking mood in this thread. I didn't ment to offend you.

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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #41
95. Delete
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:47 AM by billyskank
.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
87. Nice post, Hitler
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
34. Would you find the retort "Nice post, Mad King Ludwig" offensive?
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 08:30 AM by Bucky
Never mind. It lacks the equivalent poetic oomph. But for what it's worth, I think most DUers associate Germans more with the guys who bought out the Springfield nuclear plant.

Now pardon me while I daydream about the "land of chocolate".
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. The Bavarian King Ludwig
didn't systematicly kill millions of people because of their religion in death camps. So you can't compare them.

I am sorry, I can't really laugh about it.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. What's yer point Hindenburg
:rofl:
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
39. It makes me cringe too
My grandfather emigrated to the US because Hitler would have killed him. He was part of the "national guard" that put Hitler in prison before he came into power. My Nana emigrated a few years later. (They met in the US). I still have relatives in Germany as you know. I guess I share my own sense of guilt.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. I am glad for your family that your grandpa could escape
too many people didn't think Hitler would do what he did.
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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
40. I agree with you MissHoneyChurch -I've always found the term offensive
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 08:47 AM by socialdemocrat1981
For exactly the same reasons you mentioned, MissHoneyChurch. I'm glad you raised the issue -it has been something that has been annoying me for a long time :thumbsup:

FWIW, I'm not German or of European descent but I have friends whose family were of German descent who lived through WWII and I've been to the Holocaust Mueseums in both Washington and Sydney in addition to having done extensive reading and research on the subject
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Thank you
I am glad I am not the only one who finds it offensive.
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tjwmason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks for posting this.
I think that it is almost impossible for us to understand what some terms mean to those with perspectives different from our own.

I do not for a single moment blame Germans generally, especially those born decades later, for the horrors of Hitler and the Nazi regime - but I can imagine a German feeling such guilt, and we should recognise this and take due account in what we post. The modern German nation is a victim of the Nazi regime as well. :hug:
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Unfortunately not all Germans feel such guilt
otherwise the Neo-Nazis wouldn't be around.

Every country has its skeletons in the closet, we Germans have to live with Hitler.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
46. Thank you
I am so glad you brought this up. I don't understand why or know when it began being used here..I just know I was shocked the first time I saw it.

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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. I don't know either when it began
but its been around too long in my opinion. I doubt I can stop people from using it, but at least I said something instead of gulping the whole time.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
50. I wouldn't say it to anyone
:hug:
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. No, you wouldn't
it is not your style :hug:
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
51. Good for you MissHoneychurch.
I have never seen the humor in that particular post and I've never used it. And like so many Lounge posts that get repeated ad nauseum, it gets old really fast.

As another thread points out, some ridiculous things seem to catch on and everyone has to use them again and again; I have no idea why.

Again, good for you for speaking up.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Was it posted in the Lounge the first time?
or GD? I have no idea actually. But it doesn't matter, it is just as offensive.

Don't ask me why things get repeated over and over again. Its like with little kids. First time is funny, the next hundred times not anymore.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. "First time is funny, the next hundred times not anymore"
Boy that just describes the Lounge to a tee. No offense to anyone, thats a bit of its charm, if a bit annoying at times... :)
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. True dat
:)
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. I don't know where it got started.
But you are so right about the repetition being not funny. I don't get how someone makes a typo or spells something wrong and forever after that is how the word must be written. I don't get that either. The Hitler post never seemed funny to me, at all.
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
105. My theory is that it's a way for lounge "regulars" to decipher between who fits and doesn't fit...
it's like any organization or group - each one has both written and unwritten rules and ways of conducting oneself. These little "inside jokes" are a means to separate the milk from the cream, as it were.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Or the 'Cool' Whip from the...









Eh, you finish it. :)



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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. the sour milk?
:rofl:
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. Got Dork?
:hi:



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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #105
110. I disagree
I think it might be a bit of a group joke, but mostly its a running joke between certain posters who like to josh around with each other. I find that I have a series of running jokes with different individuals on this board (for instance Big Yak which is in my sig line, is running joke in the Skeptics group--when newbies post we tell them about it too). My goodness, if madinmaryland didn't respond to me by saying that or Nice Post, Snyder! I would worry he wasn't feeling well!
I have been a social outcast most of my life and I know when someone is using something as social barometer, and this isn't one of them. I will however attempt to cease using at as Miss Honeychurch has made very good points on the subject.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
54. As a white male that has to deal with guilt over everything from...
slavery to the patriarchy-at-large even though, like you, I had nothing whatsoever to do with nearly any of it (nor did my family, in terms of slavery), I think a few posts that are in jest should be the least of your worries.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
55. I absolutely understand that...I have a very good friend who is German, though
she went to school and live in the US for about 10 years. She has alwaybe been VERY senstitive to casual / "humorous" Hitler / Nazi references.

I'll remember your request, even though I generally don't use the "Hitler" comment.

Redstone
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #55
62. I guess it has to do with growing up in Germany
it was a long painful process to judge over our own people and speak out.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
57. It's certainly ran its course
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
59. The difference between a German and a Nazi...
...is as obvious to me as is the difference between an American and a Nazi...or a Canadian and a Nazi...a Mexican and a Nazi...a Brizilian and a Nazi...(you see where I'm going, right?)

I'm sorry that you put all that guilt on yourself. I wish you wouldn't. You didn't do anything wrong.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
63. Hey sweetie.
Got your card in the mail. I've been waiting to send something back until the end of Girl Scout cookie season. (Hope you like cookies-I plan on sending a box over!)

The "Hitler" comments suck. That's all there is to it. And people who make the comments blow chunks.

(BTW-the girls have chosen Germany as their country to study and represent for Girl Scout Thinking Day this year. We plan to have loads of fun.)
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Just sent you a pm
saw you in another thread.

I LOVE cookies :)

Honestly, I never saw the sense in that sentence anyway. What is it really supposed to mean?


btw, if the girls need some help ... let me know :hug:
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. I'll check out the pm in a moment.
And I never understood the sense of making the comment either. My grandmother was of German heritage and she hated any mention of that man while she was alive. (May she rest in peace now.) And my daughter is half German-her father was first generation born in the US of German parents. (They both came to the US as teenagers.) We tend to be a bit hyper-sensitive about those type of comments.

I hope you like Thin Mints. They're the best cookie ever, especially since they make money for the Girl Scouts.

And they could always use help with something. If you have any ideas let me know.

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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. So you know exactly how I feel
:hug:

Never had Thin Mints but I heard good things about it.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #68
73. I know exactly how you feel.
We're very careful about what we say, not only because of our German heritage but because of a college friend. Her great-uncle didn't make it to the US-he died in a camp.

It's offensive to those who are German and it's offensive to those who lost family because of that man. A smart-ass crack of that nature belittles their loss.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
65. What part of Germany are you from.
I was able to trace my lineage back to 1609 in Southern Bavaria, near the Austrian border.

:hi:

I've never been to Germany, though my father was there is the early 50's.
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. At the moment I live in Frankfurt
but I grew up in Eastern Germany. And my family comes from what is now Poland and Czech Republic. And further down someone came from Switzerland. Really hard to trace :)

:hi: Come on over, it is a beautiful country.
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
101. I always thought you were English living in Germany.
I think it's because of your meet-ups with billyskank, swimboy, etc.

You grew up in East Germany? I don't think many on this thread can wrap their heads around what you've seen in your lifetime.

That includes me. :)
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
69. yes. I can understand that.
:hug:

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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. Thanks Tuesday
:hug:
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Haole Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
70. First of all...
You should not feel guilty. It certainly wasn't your doing.

Secondly, please accept our apologies. Words are powerful things and sometimes we forget that.

:hug:
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Thanks KC2
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 10:30 AM by MissHoneychurch
its not like I feel personally guilty, but as a nation.


:hug:
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
74. i think most americans do not experience the same guilt for sins they were not really part of
as germans do. i am sure its cultural. for instance a lot of indians have severe guilt over the practices of sati. i would personally find it very hard to joke about it.

i think the idea of carrying the sins of our culture with us differs from culture to culture.

thats just my take on this.

anyhow i dont use it cos i dont understand it. :hi:
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #74
102. I think we have taught ourselves never to apologize.
And from that, we never have learned to feel shame for our actions. We still believe in this idealized "mythos" of America - that we always are on the side of righteousness; that any war we fight is just. That we always are the "good confederates" that other nations can rely upon in times of need.

We see ourselves as the White Knight in the darkness of "Over There," always looking for a maiden to save.

But that is the ideal of America that clashes daily with the reality of America - the reality that is becoming more clear every day.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
75. Agree. 100 percent.
I cringe when I see that term used at DU. (And I understand about cultural guilt, although I'm not sure "guilt" is quite the right word. "Shame" that people with whom I share a least a partial cultural history would maybe be a better word.)

:hug: :hug:
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. Agreed. 100%
with the wrong choice of words. Maybe it is a mix of both.

:hug:
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yorgatron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. you need to watch "The Producers"
the original version with Gene Wilder and Zero Mostel.
there's nothing wurst than a sour kraut :crazy: :silly: :eyes:
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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. I am very German in that
I love Sauerkraut :D
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
80.  I gew up in an ethnic German neighborhood
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 02:31 PM by mycritters2
and an ethnic German church. I'm really more Scot than anything, but I identify more as German. But I don't feel any guilt about Hitler, for a couple of reasons.

First, my ancestors left Germany in the 1840's and 50's. They were German liberals, who had to flee after the failed Prussian Revolution of 1848. Or they were pacifists who left to avoid conscription in the Franco-Prussian War. They saw the oppression and suppression that was part of 19th Century German culture, and chose to leave it behind.

With others of like-minds, they came to this country and formed German communities with others who had rejected parts of German culture, but held onto what they loved--their faith, their food, their music, their literature. And they passed much of this down to me.

Hitler (who really was Austrian) and his ilk came along way after my ancestors had left. I've known people who were in Germany under the Third Reich, members of churches I've served. So, I've been reminded of the connecetion between my life and those days. But the rise of Hitler is attributable to more than just the gullibility or evil of the German people.

Hitler was made possible by the convergence of the reparations payments forced by the victors in WWI, the worldwide depression of 1929, and centuries of anti-Semitism. For which of these factors are the German people responsible? The anti-Semitism. It's an awful thing, and I ams ashamed of it (though I've never seen it among German Americans I've known). The other factors were caused by others, or were out of anyone's control.

I also take great pride in the fact that Germany has worked hard to keep Fascism from rising again, and has created a progressive culture on the rubble of its past.

I've been as close to these things as anyone my age. I once belonged to a Turnverein that had been a meeting place for the Bund in its day. My home church called the youth group "Jugend Verein" until I was in college. Trust me, I'm German! I acknowledge the fact that my ethnic group did awful things to others. Hitler was evil, about as evil as can be. But I'm not responsible for him. He does not represent the German I know, and if he did, then they'd deserve to be condemned. And ridiculed.

I hate Hitler as much as anyone. And feel free to joke about the bastard. I'm a German American. I'm not a Nazi. And neither is anyone I know.

Besides, as every true German American knows...Hitler was an Austrian!

Have a beer! The polka band is starting up!!
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
83. Nice post, Edi Amin.
:hide:
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
84. Isn't it some inside clique joke? I can understand your offense. nt.
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #84
100. It IS cliquish...
...and old...

...and apparently hurtful to a nice DU poster.

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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
85. Hey MissHoneychurch
I do all of the travel for the German consulate here!!!!!!

They rock!!!!

:hug: :hi:


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StrongBad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
86. I find your thread interesting
Especially hearing about how Germans collectively still are haunted by that era. I always wondered what happened after WWII ended. Did the citizens immediately realize what they supported was evil and deserving of denouncement? Or were there still a lot of true believers of Hitler's message for decades afterwards? Please forgive my American ignorance of history outside of the U.S, but it's fascinating to me nonetheless.

In either case, although I never found the "Nice ___, Hitler" offensive (and only funny the first 100 times stated), I can understand where you're coming from and why it may be bothersome.

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DarkmoonIkonoklast Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #86
93. re: 'true believers in hatred...
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:15 AM by DarkmoonIkonoklast
   My first job (early 1970) after out-muster from the Corps in '69 put me in contact with an unrepentant ex-Nazi who handled payroll for my employer...
   This woman was horrendous!
   She missed no opportunity to 'remind' us all just how misunderstood her Fuhrer had been... having only recently discovered that i might have had a paternal grandmother who had used 'unusual methods' to get her son and herself out of Auschwitz (or so i had been told the previous winter by a putative cousin in los angeles), and having been raised (with apologies to steve martin) a poor black child, i was hard-pressed to refrain from treating this horrid old woman as she deserved.
   to un-confuse those who are, naturally, confused by the afore-mentioned genaeology, my paternal parent, an israeli army scientist, only participated in my conception -- an act which i often refer to as 'a run-by siring'... my mum was, and remained to her dying in '87, AfrAm both personally and culturally! she married a florida black man upon finishing nursing school in '53...
   i find such 'jokes' to be, at the very least, in dreadfully poor taste, ignoring, or being horribly insensitive to, the real pain inflicted upon so many, by those to whom the 'humor' refers.
   would anyone be similarly cavalier in responding to the use of 'nice ___, Custer', or the pain and -- most likely -- rage exhibited in response by some native american?
   or responding to the use of 'nice ___, Klansman', or the pain and rage exhibited in response by some african-american?
   Miss Honey, please forgive us short-sighted and all-too-often self-centered Yanks... someday, if we're VERY blessed, we might develop an ability to step outside of our utterly undeserved self-congratulatory smugness, and think about the effects of our words BEFORE we release them!
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #86
103. Read 'A Child of Hitler' by Alfons Heck
It'll answer your question from the standpoint of at least one person a lad who as a leader in the Hitler Youth was commanding troops at 17 and wrote of his experience as a 10-year-old at the 1938 Party Congress in Nuremberg, "From that moment on, I belonged to Adolph Hitler, body and soul."



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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
89. I get it...
.. and I appreciate your posting your feelings. They seem real and valid to me.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
90. I've used it before as a joke, but now that I know it's hurtful to you I won't.
I am capable of learning stuff once in a while. :)
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
91. I have a very German name and it doesn't bother me a bit.
In the lounge "Nice post, Hitler" is poking fun at the hyperbole often found in the General Discussion forum. Pretty much any genocidal madman's name will do, but Hitler is the most popular, followed by Stalin.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
92. I don't like it either.
Never really thought of it as being offensive until you brought that to my attention just now but I just think it's one of those overused Lounge slogans that gets stale pretty quickly.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
94. Nice Post Cheney nt
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
96. I agree Ms. HC, and thank you for having the courage to say it.



I never found the "Hitler" posts to be particularly clever or otherwise funny to begin with, now the overuse is annoying, and I can certainly understand where it is offensive to you and others. But for me to say that would not have been nearly as meaningful or effective as you saying it. So, thank you.


:hi:


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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
97. Someone said it to me yesterday, and I was confused.
Did I miss something else?!
I was a little confused and a bit offended. :shrug:
Duckie
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
98. Thank you for speaking up about it...
:hug:
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
99. My great-grandfather's first names were "Adolph Bonafice"
He and my great-grandmother were German immigrants in the early part of the Twentieth Century.

I don't have as direct a cultural connection being a third generation American, but I understand the difficulty that some Germans have with this issue. A couple of years ago I met a couple of German journalists who described the push for a Neo-Nazi group to protest during the German elections, and what an uproar it caused there, especially given the nature of Germany's free speech laws that outlaw the denial of the Holocaust.

I guess the idea behind the "nice post, Hitler" concept is that it's satirizing how we sometimes mindlessly toss out labels to shame one another's posts.

But I'm sorry if that has been upsetting. The last thing we need to do is upset our international friends any more than Bush already has.

~Writer~
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Call Me Wesley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
108. Well,
it's an easy way to increase the post count I guess. :P Godwin's law brought to humoresque.
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