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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 12:51 AM
Original message
Neil Boortz.................
Who is he and what political ideology does he adhere to? The reason I'm asking is that a woman I've been communicating with on the net stated that she looks up to him and that his views mirror hers. I think I remember him as being a wingnut if I'm not mistaken, but before severing all communication with her I want to be sure. Any help?
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. I believe he is a wingnut.
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. He claims
to be Libertarian, if I recall correctly. I find him more tolerable than Rush and Hannity, which isn't saying much..
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. He claims to be Libertarian...
...but he only criticizes Bush when Bush isn't acting conservative enough. Boortz has never spoken a kind word about anyone to the left of Limbaugh.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Hi Buzz Clik!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Libertarian for some
is a cover for some repugs who want to appear to be outside the gop.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
45. He HIDES behind that Libertarian monikor....
Hell,if Libertarian's core beliefs on how this country should be run are that close to Republicans then why the HELL would we need a Libertarian Party? My guess is that when Neil found out about outrageous money being made by screaming radio hosts(well,as long as you bashed Dems)he quickly put in his resume'.

He was probably told they already had 50 right wing nut cases but not ONE Libertarian. Oh OK,now I'm a Libertarian. Boortz is totally full of shit about 99.9% of the time

David
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Boortz -- primo rightie rabble rouser
Boortz has a daily talk show and website. He is adored by the stereotypical neocon knuckledraggers from coast to coast. His website posts a series of talking points for his adoring fans in which he harps on trivial everyday events as if the "Liberals" are taking over the world. He's roughly on the truth-telling same par as Carl Limbacher of NewsMax, but Boortz actually has a measurable IQ.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't Neil the guy that
went stomping off the much-missed (by me, anyway) Donahue show that was on MSNBC? He thought he was being unfairly treated by all the liberals (ahem) that were on that particular night? Pulled off the earpiece and stomped out like a petulant child.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
43. Yep,he walked off....
Then I think he came back later or the next day and did the show. Its just fucking amazing what happens to these Reich wing screamers when their not on a show with the usual "stacked deck" of 3 or more other Re pigs and one shlupping Dem.

Like Peggy "nooner" Noon an or Ann "the man" Colter on Hardball they can't take the tough questions. They curl up in a fetal position or just walk off.

David
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. Okay..............
I can see that this relationship is going nowhere right from the start. Another poisoned mind, too bad, in many other respects she seemed quite nice but I couldn't tolerate a relationaship with someone harboring that ideology. Thanks!
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JasonDeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. Right wing wacko, heres the link if you want to waste your time
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Unless she gives great cyber-sex, dump her
Edited on Wed Dec-31-03 01:19 AM by mitchum
Boortz is a jackass who claims to be a Libertarian but he's never met corporate welfare he didn't love.
On second thought: dump her anyway. There are LOTS of women out there
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. he's a wannabe-rush
rants may be slightly different, but the message is the same

"liberals" bad, neo-cons good

he defines liberals as anyone that disagrees with him

rants and raves alot about "government schools" (public schools, properties being taken by imminent domain, and "big government" - but slams any proposals by Dems/liberals that would make the very changes he wants
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LMacNeill Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. changes...
I agree that Boortz is not ecaxtly "nice" to those who disagee with him -- but he never made any claim to be a "nice" guy, did he?

I, for one, would like you specifically list any of those proposals by Dems/liberals that you claim would actually make the changes he wants?

I've yet to see much from Liberal Democrats that would actually improve the cause of freedom -- NOT that I'm saying the Republicans have all the correct anwers, because they rarely get it right any more...

But the Libertarians are all about allowing people to freely govern themselves (Boortz included, for the most part)... Who could find fault in that?

The Libertarians are the true liberals (note the lowercase 'L') because they believe in freedom, first and foremost. The word liberal (and liberty and Libertarian, and liberate) is derived from the Latin word "libre" which means "freedom" or more specifically "to free." (as in "To free the slaves...")

I listen to Boortz on WSB here in Atlanta, and make up my own mind as to whether or not his particular ranting of the day makes any sense -- and I'd advise everyone else to do the same, with an open and tolerant mind...

Laurence MacNeill
Atlanta, GA
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. His ideas
are 19th century. We live in a more advanced 21st century. He claims we are like a socialist totalitarian state. In fact, we're not even close. Not all programs to help people progress in society are big brother take over plots nor are they huge wastes of money. There are many ways to become a third world country. No government programs (like libertarian ideas call for) is one way.
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LMacNeill Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Social programs...
Boortz's ideas ARE more like those that you heard in the 19th century -- back when America was still truly FREE. No income tax, very little tax burden on the American worker... I agree that going back entirely to that time would be a bad idea, but private charitable orgnizations are the answer, not government programs...

Government programs are almost NEVER a good solution to a problem -- have you ever known the government to be able to do something better than an individual or private organization can do it? (Look at the difference in test scores between students in public schools and private schools/home schools. Look at the difference in reliability, speed, and cost between the USPS and FedEx/UPS/Airborne. Look at the decrease in the cost of air-fare since the government stopped regulating which airlines could fly where and what they could charge to do it (the US Airline Deregulation Act of 1978). Look at the INCREASE in healthcare costs since the government got into the health-care business in 1964. I could go on and on...)

Private charitable organizations are the way to take care of the "less fortunate" in society. Using the FORCE of the government to take money from those who have it and give it to those who may or may not deserve it is not appropriate... Use of FORCE in nearly all cases (except self-defense) is totally inappropriate... (I'm cotinually surprised at those who abhor war, yet support the use of government force -- e.g. taxation -- on their fellow citizens...) Is it not the same thing when you take my money at the point of a gun in your hand, as it is when a government official that you elected takes the very same money at the point of a gun in his/her hand? One is called Buglary, the other is called Taxation... One gets you 5 years in prison, the other gets you re-elected...

Appeal to people's humanitarian side and ask them to GIVE their money to private charitable organizations -- some may choose not to, but I believe that most people would choose to give at least some percentage of their income to charity to help those who truly need it... Heck, even with our current, OUTRAGEOUS tax burden, we still see $BILLIONS given to charity every year -- imagine how much would be given if there were very little tax burden?

Think about it...
Laurence MacNeill
Atlanta, GA
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. LIL,I'll take USPS package delivery over UPS any day...
What do you think UPS or Fed-Ex would charge for daily mail service--and that includes Sat? Think you could get a letter to Hawaii for .37 cents? No damn way. Of course they would blame it ALL on those over paid union workers,totally forgetting that USPS employee's are also union.

Sounds like your a fan of Boortz's 23% em..."consuption" tax. Funny how he skirts over the Sales Tax name--because thats what it is. Well,what a shock,works out GREAT for guys like him and Pigboy that make millions per year,works out SHITTY for people with a family and only dragging down 15K per year.


David
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LMacNeill Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Nat'l Retail Sales Tax
The National Retail Sales Tax does NOT hurt those making 15K per year, because there is NO TAX on basic items of everyday living -- basic food, shelter and clothing... So the people who only buy the most basic items (i.e., the POOR) will pay ABSOLUTELY NO TAX! Additionally, they will no longer have ANY Social Security or Medicare taxes withheld from their pay, meaning they take home their ENTIRE paycheck every time!!! Everyone would get essentially a 20% (or more) payraise!

If you CHOOSE to buy items that aren't basic necessities of life, then you will pay tax... A 50" HDTV or a Lexus SC430 would bring a LOT of tax in... (Don't see many poor people driving Lexus SC430's). It's truly the MOST FAIR tax in the world! The poor pay NO TAX AT ALL and the rich (who buy expensive things) will pay the MOST tax of everyone!!!

Visit The Fair Tax Webpage to get all the details... I'm telling you, if you'd open your mind just a LITTLE BIT and actually READ and COMPREHEND the Fair Tax, you'll be a convert just like me...

Laurence MacNeill
Atlanta, GA
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LMacNeill Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. USPS vs. UPS/FedEx
The USPS can deliver a letter to Hawaii for $0.37 because it ALSO charges you the same $0.37 to deliver a letter across town!! The one makes a lot of money to subsidize the other...

If UPS/FedEx were to run it's services that way, then I'm quite sure it could beat $0.37 to Hawaii... But frankly, I'd prefer paying $0.10 to deliver across town while paying $2.00 to deliver to Hawaii...

Laurence MacNeill
Atlanta, GA
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. "No income tax amd very little tax" And no services.
You ready to be digging your own septic system and obtaining your own water resources? Hate those paved roads?
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LMacNeill Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Services...
Admittedly, paved roads are paid for by taxes -- but they're CONSUMPTION-BASED gasoline taxes... You drive more, you buy more gas, you pay more tax... Very simple and efficient...

Water and Sewer, however, are NOT paid for by taxes -- don't you get a Water Bill every month? That's what provides for the Water/Sewer, not taxes...

Laurence MacNeill
Atlanta, GA
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
46. Libertarians favor USAPatriot Act?
Dunno if Boortz does. But you comment "I've yet to see much from Liberal Democrats that would actually improve the cause of freedom." Us Liberal Democrats here on DU quite broadly and vociferously favor rolling back this massive curtailment to our civil liberties. And it's not just us nutjobs on DU.

I am concerned that the USA PATRIOT Act goes too far in expanding the authority of government investigators, and that it does so without sufficient oversight. We need to make sure that we are taking responsible measures to meet the needs of the time. That's why I'll call on Congress to fully review each provision of the Act, study the ways in which each has been used in practice, and eliminate those provisions that unduly threaten our civil liberties.
Wesley Clark


Now I'm not a libertarian, but I kinda thought the philosophy, in addition to being adolescently over-awed by Ayn Rand and wanting to privatize everything from highways to the air we breathe, had something to do with being, y'know, anti-BigBrother 'n' stuff. But maybe I'm wrong about that.
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LMacNeill Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Patriot Act...
Point well taken -- I forgot about the Democrats wanting to repeal the Patriot Act... You are absolutely correct on that one -- the Patriot Act is an abyssmal deterioration of our rights...

Laurence MacNeill
Atlanta, GA

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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. Neal Boortz...
Edited on Wed Dec-31-03 04:44 AM by Sandpiper
Claims he's a libertarian, but is really a neocon, chickenhawk Bush apologist. Real libertarians can't stand the guy.


Here's an excellent article by a real libertarian on what a lying, Bush lickspittle, Neal Boortz is:

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2003-12-18/fishwrapp...


And another by John Raimondo, libertarian, and founder of the website www.antiwar.com :

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/jspecial112603.html
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BigBigBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Link doesn't work
The creative loafing one - I hang at another board with this chest-thumping Boortz fan, I'd love to have a genuine libertarian critique.

Boortz is a tedious Limbaugh wannabe, I just laugh when I hear his name. He's perfected the Liberal strawman assault to a tee.
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. Here is some stuff from the Libertarian Forum
Both of Sandpipers links worked for me!

Here are some links from libertyforum.org, they let anybody post there and respect your opinion as long as you do not flame.


http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=new...

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=new...
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GreenInNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-03 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. Boortz is from Atlanta
He was a local AM talk show moron in Atlanta back in the early 90's. He and Hannity were on the same station along with a guy who would make Rush look like a Clinton lover. I was in college at the time down there and delivered furnature in the afternoons. The station they were on, WSB (Welcome South Brother, I kid not) had the best traffic and if you know Atlanta I had to have good traffic reports to get my deliverys done therefore I had to listen to the three of them every afternoon. People would laugh at me because I would be yelling at the radio in my truck.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Yes, I listen to WSB to and from work because of the traffic reports.
In the morning, it's OK cause it only has news, weather and traffic. But in the afternoon, Hannity is on and I listen to his rantings. Keeps my blood pressure high.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. welcome to DU!
don't let door.......
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Be easy on them
they can't help it. Their canned thought is difficult for them to overcome.
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INTELBYTES Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Let em stay!!
Let's see if he can defend his statements. What about it Usuck? How bout those job losses since shrubs been in office?
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. I think this is some 10-year-old using his Mommy's computer.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. He claims to be libertarian
but is a wingnut that trashes Dems and/or any government social program. Just another part of the cult.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. Boortz a libertarian??? thats an insult to
all liberatarians. Boortz is very pro war contrary to liberatrian antiwar stance.

kucinich.us

deanforamerica.com
clark04.com
sharpton2004.org

Tom DeLay:"I challenge anyone to live on my salary" <$158,000 a year>
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jeepndesert Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. Boortz, Libertarians, Democrats, and Republicans
Edited on Sat Jan-03-04 05:18 AM by jeepndesert
The one thing I don't like about Boortz is that he tends to criticize everyone. I don't like how he criticizes obese people and smokers. Both are already lepers of society. Criticism of these groups of people is like stepping on the toes of someone because they can't run. He is doing nothing but fueling the fire of the mob to enact such things as banning fat people from flying and banning smokers from having a beer and smoke in their favorite smoke-filled lounge, not to mention unjustified taxes on soft drinks (most fat people drink diet sodas anyway) and taxes on cigarettes (most smokers die before they collect federal longevity insurance, a/k/a Social Security, and rot insurance, a/k/a Medicare).

I would say in Boortz's defense that he will go on the record to say he doesn't support the banning of fat people on airlines (perhaps charging them for two seats) and raising taxes on smokers (perhaps giving them a Social Security tax credit for smoking). It is part of his whole desensitivity training thing...getting people to accept the faults of people so that real solutions can be found to the problem--usually through the free market with Nicorette and Weight Watchers--or general acceptance of these problems...she is a whale, and he smokes like chimney, but we will accept them anyway if they don't run off asking for government handouts and special priviledges. We are all born with our obstacles.

I think Libertarians suffer from the same problem as many Dean Democrats. Both have the inability to listen to the concerns of the opposition. They both feel they know everything and everyone who disagrees is just stupid even if they are scholar and a president of the country.

I use to be Libertarian but now just consider myself agnostic. I try to listen to the concerns of others.

While I don't like public education, I think it would be wise to invest in children by turning public schools into private schools, and giving parents a voucher to spend at any school of their choice for their children. The children win in that every child gets an education that works to keep them as a customer.

While I believe we should allow drilling for oil in Alaska, cutting down trees in California to prevent forest fires, global warning/cooling is caused by solar activity, I do think it would be wise for the government to invest in alternative energy sources. FDR did great when he invested in hydropower.

Libertarians are an odd lot. I went to a Harry Browne event in Atlanta one year. It was interesting to see Boortz and the transvestites hanging out together. A true cultural melting pot of individuals wanting to retain their individuality.

Capitalism is a great thing. It is there for you 24/7. You are more likely to find a convenience store to fill most of your needs 24/7 when most churches will be closed.

I don't believe in the War on Drugs. It is a waste of money. We need to accept pot smokers as stupid pot smokers and quit wasting a CEOs salary to hunt down a drug user or an average household income to keep one behind bars. Pot smokers should be productive members of society, working at the convenience store or cooking the french fries to serve the needs of the busy, hard-working people.

I do support the war effort in Iraq. I actually admire Bush for taking this one head-on instead of a weak, botched Jimmy Carter helicopter rescue attempt. We actually won a lot of friends in the Middle East. It happens when a soldier acts professionally to prisoners or helps a civilian. It happens when an American soldier risks his own life to help another country gain some freedom for the individual and fight against a tyrant in power. The American soldier is not only a trained professional in the use of deadly force, the American soldier is a trained professional in diplomacy as well.

There was a protest march in Iraq. It was in support of the American presence and a protest against terrorism. We have friends in Kuwait now. We have people in Afghanistan who have lived in poverty and who are now receiving basic goods from such organizations as the Red Cross and Save the Children.

In all, I have been pleased with Bush. While Clinton was still in office, I remember when the economy started to sink in terms of the dotcom bust. I even felt it coming as early as 1996. There were way too many people entering the industry to make a quick buck without any background of what they were doing. This was a boom/bust correct that sent the economy in a down spiral. Bush did the right thing to promote tax cuts. While tax cuts are slow to restart investment and job creation, they do give way to meaningful investment, job creation, and prosperity in the future. Privatizing education was another good step, rediverting tax dollars to a more cost-effective private education system and away from the various teacher unions and boards of do-nothings of public education. About the only thing Bush did wrong is not look for for a wise investment into alternative energy.

It would be nice if they towards more privatization of Social Security into national longevity insurance and move health care towards major medical insurance...whereas the consumer picks their insurance policy from private sector or public sector and it is guaranteed to stay with them throughout their life--meaning if the private sector provider goes bust the government acquires the insurance companies assets and maintains the customer's policies. They pay for the insurance premiums while they work and have the government subsidize the premium while not working.

As far as helping the homeless...I think we should revisit Thomas Paine's Agrarian Justice plan. Thomas Paine basically innovated reverse Social Security...People pay land taxes and these land taxes are redistributed to everyone when they turn 25 to be used to purchase land. There is some justification that we, as humans, deserve a little bit of land and natural resources to exist but we must work to build the fishing rod and work to plow the field if we want to continue to exist. We need to revist this policy in regards to land. In today's world, the modern extension to this is to invest in the child's education so that they can compete in the modern world.

I was born being different. I have difficulty with speech. I have worked hard to overcome this disability and become a productive member of society. I'm not fortunate. I just work hard. And I don't want some nitwit Democrat who spends his time whining about Florida recounts of Al Gore, the former bootlegger, the former stoner, the former pro-life Republican, the former environmentalist, the former identity crisis goon, the now wanna-be Saturday night live comedy. I don't want a Democrat driving around in Mercedes in San Francisco to tell me I should pay more taxes. I work very hard for the money I earn. While it is a lot now, it isn't going to always be a lot because my job burns me out mentality. I have to save and invest money for when I know mentally I'm not going to have what it takes any more. I don't want a Democrat telling me they know what is good for me when all they do is try to claim George Bush has the IQ of a monkey, when it is obvious he probably has an IQ higher than average.

If Bush does something wrong, tell me how he should be handling the U.N. How can George Bush get every nation to back the United States in the dismantling of a tryanny when many of those nations, like France, are ruled by tyrants themselves. Many nations didn't want to get involved because they didn't want to become targets of terrorism themselves.

Tell me, how can George Bush handle homeland security better. Having a department does help because that department ultimately is given power and responsibility that everyone works together to fight terrorism.

While I do think Zell Miller was an idiot when he proposed to buy every child in Georgia a Mozart CD when he read an article that children who listen to classical music tend to do better in school, the Democrats should listen to Zell Miller a little because he is telling you how Democrats lose their swing voters. I hated Zell Miller as governor, but he has turned out surprisely well as a Senator with his philosophy of doing what is right for Joe Sixpack.

What I don't like about the Republicans are people like Hannity and Rush Limbaugh who act arrogantly, much like the Democrats. I don't like the Christian Coalition. I don't think religion has any place in government. I think we should privatize education partly for this reason too. You wouldn't have had the social tensions that resulted in Columbine with one arrogant idiot christian/jock trying to exert power over another arrogant idiot goth and vice versa. The whole goth vs. christian/jock thing is basically a vanity rivalry between two hypocritical groups. I do believe in the end of the War on Drugs, turning stoners into productive chefs of french fries or multi-millionaire entertainers. I do believe in gay marriage. Marriage after all is just a social contract between two people that will result in divorce eventually no matter if they are two good opposite-gendered Christians or two gay people trying to build a life together. Unless the Christian Coalition can get over the War on Drugs or gay marriages, I have no sympathy for their cause.

I am also against corporate welfare. I think Democrats and Republicans are both guilty of this. It is just the nature of government and the abuse of power. Corporations wouldn't need welfare if you kept the taxes on them just to cover the expense of the regulation of the market to protect against fraud, etc. Corporations don't even pay taxes anyway...it is the consumer that pays corporate taxes if the corporation is more effecient than their mom/pop competitor. There is nothing wrong with getting a 2 cent corporate burger. There is nothing wrong with getting a $5 mom/pop burger. Some of us work harder and deserve the mom/pop burger. Some of us don't and deserve the 2 cent corporate burger.

I will go on the record of saying Clinton was a better president than the first Bush and Reagan. Reagan was better than the first Bush. At least Reagan had a goal of helping the economy and winning the Cold War when he ran up the national credit card beyond limits. Bush Dubya has been a remarkable president, if not one of the best. He approaches the job with true integrity and the combined wisdom of many people to really do what is right and productive.

Howard Dean is way out of touch. There are several Democrats who are way out of touch. Dean can't win. Even the Clintons recognize this and are supporting Wesley Clark. You win no votes when you say one of the best presidents is an idiot. When a Democrat claims Bush is an idiot, the Democrat is as stupid as a Republican who claims Clinton is an idiot. You don't win votes that way. You win votes by saying Bush is a good president and want to build upon successes while adding a few other new proposals to improve on his record...such as maintaining lower taxes and more efficient government, cutting wastes, continuing the bush's path of foreign policy, proposing investment in alternative energy (a form of corporate welfare), getting rid of corporate welfare in places where it isn't needed, moving social security and medicare in a private direction while moving healthcare in a public direction to where both insurance and social security to where both would insure adequate coverage for everyone while being cost effective and responsive, and giving parent's choice in education (I've heard Democrats discussing support of vouchers), etc. You don't win votes by appeasement of tyrants and proposing to charge more money for wasteful government. Even gay atheists who smoke pot, volunteer to build houses for the homeless, and who give money to feed children in Afghanistan work hard for their money.

I could rant all day. I try to stay away from politics...but decided to rant for awhile since I haven't ranted about politics in about 2 years.

As far as the Libertarian woman, perhaps you should take it as an opportunity to learn and expand your horizons rather than close them. Better yet, you should leave her before she leaves you because you're closed-minded?
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jeepndesert Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Wesley Clark best choice, Howard Dean is an embarassment
Edited on Sat Jan-03-04 06:12 AM by jeepndesert
Wesley is your best chance of beating Bush though I don't think Bush is beatable. Wesley has the ability to sway people with his charisma and background. Wesley also seems to be in with the Clinton camp, which means he would govern like Clinton but hopefully without Monica around to provide fringe benefits.

Gephardt has shown himself as an effective politician even though he doesn't have the charisma to win. Gephardt I think has improved a lot as a politician in this campaign. If Dean wins, the Democrat Party will lose a lot of support and be embarassed in the general election. The only good outcome would be that Gephardt was forced to become a better politician in his attempt to defeat Dean.

Howard Dean is a loose cannon. Howard Dean is going to be embarassed, especially if he starts to act like a far-left Democrat. Loose cannons don't win the trust of the voter. It is appropriate that Al Gore endorsed Howard Dean because in a lot of ways, Howard Dean is a loose cannon. It will not even be close in Florida this time. Too many Perot supporters in Florida will be voting for Bush now they know he isn't anything like his father and better than Jeb. Howard Dean doesn't inherit the Clinton legacy. He just inherits the Clinton's goon, Al Gore, the former pro-life Republican who is now "Green" and who claims to have invented the Internet (actually it was the military who invented the Internet so that military personnel would have access to porn in the event of nuclear war--the porn part is a joke). I can give you more history as far the Web, but I'm sure you don't want to hear about Gopher, SGML, HTTP, Mosaic, Netscape, and even the history AOL as a private network for the C-64.

I personally swung away from the Democratic Party after the performance of Jimmy Carter (a great man, but a horrible president who was just ineffective at everything) and away from the Republican Party after the performance of the first Bush and the realization that Reagan ran up a huge debt to finance an economic boom. The first Bush raised taxes to pay for the Reagan debt. The first Bush should have cut government spending (at the expense of public sector jobs to save the private sector jobs). Our only saving grace through it all was having the Ludwig von Mises/Milton Friedman economist, Alan Greenspan, to fix the monetary problems of the Jimmy Carter years and manage our currency effectively even with a Reagan credit card debt and a dotcom bust.

Clinton almost swayed me, but I couldn't tolerate his coziness with Henry Waxman and the other Nazis to unjustly raise cigarette taxes. Clinton did do a good job at keeping the economy at bay by not hurting it though I wouldn't say he helped it either. He just reaped the rewards of a dotcom boom to claim balanced budget (if not waste it).

The dotcom bust was just too much for it though and the second Bush walked into office with a failing economy. There is too much debt to increase government spending blindly like in the Reagan years. Capital returns were too meager to raise taxes like the years of senior. The only way to fix it was to cut consumer taxes (broad-based tax cuts) to favor spending (business) so that businesses would increase profits or sales so that people would start paying capital gains again, and eventually businesses would start to hire and expand again. Marginal tax rate cuts were long overdue because of inflation pushing people into higher and higher tax brackets--making people feel tighter and tighter wallets even though general economic productivity is up. Bush is having to spend in the red, but it is the only thing he can do until the capital gains start pouring into the government coffers again. This time though the politicians will have less money to waste if they want to claim a balanced budget since Congress finally listened to Greenspan to keep income tax rates aligned with inflation so that the poor will not become poorer.

After the First Bush, I have thrown away my vote to the Libertarians. Though I'm thinking of returning to the Republican Party out of fear of another Al Gore/Howard Dean and because the second Bush has performed so impressively.

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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Re Gore, internet: do you prefer to be called a liar or an ignoramus?
I'm referring of course to your use of the tired, GOP-generated lie that Gore claimed to have "invented the internet." You claim to know a lot about the internet, but apparently you've never bothered to use the thing to check your own assumptions or you would know that this is a canard. What he said was "During my service in the US Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

Did he have the right to make that claim? Yes.

Do we know who Vint Cerf is? He's sometimes known as "founder of the internet." He's Chairman of ICANN. Do we know what ICANN is? I'll let you use the internet to find out. Or Robert Kahn, aka, "Co-founder of the Internet"--heard of him?

Here's what Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn have to say about Gore's claim:


Bob and I believe that the vice president deserves significant
credit for his early recognition of the importance of what has
become the Internet.
<snip>

Al Gore and the Internet

By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf
Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the
Internet and to promote and support its development.


No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the
Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among
people in government and the university community. But as the two people
who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the
Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a
Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to
our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.


Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his
role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the
initiative in creating the Internet." We don't think, as some people have
argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover,
there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's
initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving
Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and
promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it
is timely to offer our perspective.

<snip>


You can read the rest here. It goes into some detail.

I'm not actually a big Gore supporter. But it does piss me off when people who seem to think they're intelligent go around passing off right wing lies as if they were reality.
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
22. He is an idiot.
FU Bortzth.
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Tulsa_Libertarian Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
23. Oh Yeah!
Boortz rocks! Give me the chics e-mail!
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Coldgothicwoman Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Boortz Rocks?
The man wants to do away with Public Education for the love of the Goddess! Somehow, he thinks 'Government Schools' are a bad thing. Much better, of course, for the poor to remain poor and the wealthy to pass their jobs to their own offspring.

I find your reason to be unreasonable. But I will not insult you.

(The Mods gave me my lesson about that! :P )
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes. And get this,
his job at the POST OFFICE put him through law school, yet he hates the government.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. small wonder a Libertarian likes the man
-
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
42. This thread is being majorly attacked by Boortzies
Edited on Sat Jan-03-04 09:21 AM by librechik
just keep an eye on the other guy's post count--and don't feed the trolls
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. A couple of months ago Boortz was trashing our own DU
on his website.

kucinich.us

deanforamerica.com
clark04.com
sharpton2004.org

Tom DeLay:"I challenge anyone to live on my salary" <$158,000 a year>
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
32. Run, run as fast as you can........
in the other direction. If she likes Boortz, she's a CON.
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. the only good thing he has ever supported
is the ending of the drug war and the legalization of marijuana and hemp
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
37. Scared of Mike Malloy...
The aptly named Boortz apparently refuses to debate Mike, won't even be in the same room, too easily caught in his lies I guess...
Boortz is a right wing knee jerk reactionary loser who secretly wishes he could have had some of that sweet poon that Clinton was drowning in...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
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