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How do you feel about the Bush surprise visit to Baghdad?

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:40 PM
Original message
Poll question: How do you feel about the Bush surprise visit to Baghdad?
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 01:42 PM by WilliamPitt
I have to admit to being conflicted on this one. It was a crass photo op using soldiers, again, as a prop for His Failurehood, exacerbated by the fact that they shouldn't even be there, shouldn't be so far from home on this holiday and, of course, should not be dying for a lie.

But I do have to say that if it were any other President visiting troops in another conflict, and saying THANK YOU to the troops for their service, I'd think it was a wonderful gesture to surprise them with such a visit on Thanksgiving.

So I am torn. I hate the man and everything he stands for, I hate his war, I hate that he has gotten so many people killed, and I hate that his lies have deprived these guys of the chance to break bread with their families.

But if it was an act that made the troops feel good, feel comforted, feel like they haven't been hung out to dry, even for a moment if it beat back the darkness, then it was a good thing for him to do.

Part of my reasons for feeling this way, perhaps, are because I'm up here in the New Hampshire woods with one TV channel that is showing 'Miracle on 34th Street,' so I may be missing the whoregasm from the mainstream press that you all are seeing. Feel free to correct me.

So...the surprise visit was:

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. A campaign appearance.
Orchestrated by Karl Rove.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No doubt, but
that doesn't speak to my rationale about the troops.
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. i agree
looks good to the idiot republicans who cant think beyond their nose.

all that matters now to george w bush is getting "re-elected". everything that he does has to do with that goal.
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. He should stay there
until the war is over. Somebody hand him a rifle.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. ANY other 'President' Visiting the Troops
would NOT NOT have sent them there based upon a fucking LIE, for HIS/HER OWN POLITICAL agenda and the agenda of his NEOCON cronies.

nothing to be 'TORN' about here. they aren't there legitmately. they are dying for HIS ideals.

Nuff Said.

FUCK HIM!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. It is always jaring
to read you go off on a CAPITAL-LETTERED RANT...and then be presented with this giant smiling ass.

:)
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. balance my brother
the world is all about balance

:D
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Cush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Only FAUX is still covewring it
someone on the LBN thread stated that the CNN anchors mentioned LBJ & Nixon going to 'Nam....and how things turned out afterwards..
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. How many of the troops in Iraq even knew he was there?
How many will ever find out?

This was a PR stunt in answer to Hillary's visit to Afghanistan. It's already had its effect. My Dad didn't know that Hillary planned her visit last week, and said to me, "Have you heard? George Bush is in Iraq and Hillary's in Afghaniustan." The media has already countered Hillary's actions with Shrubbie's.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Counterpoint
1. Would they have reported on Hillary at all without this Bush trip?

2. Bush can't come back and profess some great understanding of the Iraq situation after having ghosted the place for two hours. Hillary's in-depth visit will allow her to do just that, for far longer and with more impact.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. ahhhhhhh but that is where your wrong brother Will!
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 01:56 PM by matcom
he WILL come back and profess some great understanding of the situation!

Bush's NEXT photo op: "I have BEEN to Baghdad. SPOKEN to the troops. I "feel their pain" of not being with their families during this time........."

Cement it.

on edit: "They are already writing that very script over at FAUX."
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. You think Bush's visit helped Hillary?
:shrug: I don't follow

On 2, what has Bush done for or against anything that the American public saw him as doing anything other than noble and presidential? He could fall off a Segway and they'd call it a sign from god that Bush is the king.

Americans (especially those led easily to the Repuke trough) don't look at anything objectively. They project their own feelings. Hillary understands the situation in-depth? Who cares...she's Hillary. Where's Bill's dick?
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Even if it was a photo op...if the troops felt better..than so be it
Will not make me vote for him...and I doubt it will effect any one who feels as I do.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
69. You know I'm watching it on CNN now
and those troops don't look all that thrilled. At one point there was a shot from the back and not all of them even stood up. That was sort of strange.

Another point, they say the troops were surprised but there must have 2000 flash camaras there. Did they hand them out? Maybe they did.
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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Chickenhawk Bu$h is copycatting Sen. Clinton -- as safely as possible;
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 02:10 PM by Vitruvius
guess he'd look too much like the scaredy-cat chickenhawk he is if Hillary visited the troops (in Afghanistan) and he stayed home.

(Upon edit): Bu$h is already out-of-there; he flew into the heavily guarded Baghdad airport, stayed 2 hours and 32 minutes, never left the heavily guarded airport, then got the hell out of there.

Unlike Sen. Clinton, he doesn't have the guts for a real visit.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm going to vote 'totally crass'
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 01:51 PM by liberalmuse
Because he has ignored our soldiers up until it started hurting him in the polls. Now he flies to Baghdad on Thanksgiving, when he knows most Americans will be home and tuned in to their televisions for the parades or football. This is utterly disgusting. If he had done this months ago, then I would have thought, 'Good', but this visit is being done for his benefit alone--not because he gives a crap for our troops. I have to admit, this is a brilliant way to up his poll numbers. The mindless sheeple in this country are watching, and it can only help him.

On edit: I agree that if this helps to raise the morale of our troops, crass or not, it was a good thing in the long run.
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. Somewhere in between...
I have to agree that I am also torn because I feel it was a crass photo op disguised as a meaningful gesture. But for the troops the drop by must have been somewhat uplifting, I suspect even for the ones who do not support bush*.
Also, I am now convinced that the Rove beetle must frequent sites such as this because a huge ongoing complaint here has been about bush* not visiting the troops in Iraq and not paying proper respect to fallen soldiers and there families.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. 'WilliamPitt is a scum-sucking Bush apologist whore'
is making some headway. :)
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SOteric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Hey!
You can't call yourself those names. That's our job.

:loveya:
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. Campaign Stop!
:puke:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's no big deal to me. It's a photo op.
Period. This is made to seem like some HUGE sacrifice on Chimpy's part...sorry, I can't see it that way.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. It scares the shit out of me
Taking risks like this only heightens the possibility that Dick Cheney could have been our president and that chills my soul.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. AUUUUUUUUUGH!
you just scared the shit out of ME!
what an awful, awful thought.

Of course, we all know he tells * when to wipe his ass
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BringEmOn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
74. Dick Cheney isn't our president?
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SOteric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't know the truth of them, but I hear a great many rumours
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 02:01 PM by SOteric
from local service families (Seattle is surrounded by 5 military bases) that the service men and women are short on rations, short on equipment, medical and hygiene supplies, being shorted their pay in some instances and have a wide variety of issues with the Veterans Affairs office.

I think it's a wonderful morale boost. But if true, it's much like giving Christmas candy to starving children, it's of little substance against that backdrop. I'd have preferred to see the U.S. spend the amazing amount of money that the trip must have cost to feed, equip and pay fairly those men and women who do battle in this country's name, however small a dent that may have made in their concerns.

I think, absolutely, that the Commander in Chief ought to review his troups and take and active interest in their morale and well-being. I'm glad in whatever way he's done so that he's done so. But I also think he should have done it long ago. He should have scheduled a surprise visit long before campaign season. He should have been there in the sweltering heat of Iran in mid-August listening to the brave men and women in the armed forces speak eloquently about physical exertion in killing temperatures.

At this point, it seems a little self-absorbed, self-serving. In my opinion, it's slightly less than generous.

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Military Brat Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
70. "much like giving Christmas candy to starving children"
Excellent point. bush is the empty calorie president (sic).
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. Remember these were hand-picked troops
The reaction would have been more lukewarm had he gone to meet with the Reservists and Guard who have been deployed so long that their families in the States can barely survive.

It was crass Will but it was a brilliant move for Bush and I'm sure it did indeed cheer many soldiers up.
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Morale boost? Doubt it....
How many saw or knew he was there? few.
Of those who did see him I guarantee you as a veteran that THEIR day was interrupted by the visit and extra work.

Surely someone thought it was just marvelous and Christian of him to "sacrifice" his holiday to pop over to Baghdad for a couple of hours but to most in the military these showboating visits mean extra work and interruption of YOUR time off for the politician's personal gain. (And, yes, that means Sen. Clinton as well). Its hard enough to be away from home on holidays and what little you get in the way of time off or holiday cheer is precious. Politicians coming over to enhance their own credentials as humanitarian, caring souls is just an annoyance.

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
75. Yeah but I watched and heard them cheering
and for the last hour have been sitting here with Fox news blaring in the back-ground. They're doing the same thing they did on AFN during Gulf War I- showing kids every few minutes who are broadcasting messages home to their friends and family and blessing Bush and the US.

I'll tell you my views as a fellow veteran. This isn't the same thing as some Congressional visit when you're in garrison... This is a visit from your Commander in Chief when you're in the middle of a war zone. Unless these soldiers were total REMFs, they were brought back for this which means warm showers and a better amenities. It couldn't possibly be an inconvenience to their day because it wasn't a visit/tour- there were no rocks to paint and no motor-pool to pretty up.

Where do most of those kids get their news? Heaven alone knows how much of the propaganda they haven't swallowed. During my 20 years in, I couldn't believe how brain-washed the normal Army was (I was Intel doing a real job, I mean the same job I would be doing during war-time vs training for war). I met very few people who didn't question the party line they were fed.

I know there are always some but they are few. I don't think this war has changed that. I think with time and news they'll start opening their eyes but I don't think just yet. Do you ever read the military boards? The blind faith in Bush is enough to make you gag. They rumble about Rumsfeld but not about Bush yet.

I will be happy the day I beleive what you do- it's just not yet. Bush is a GOD to most of them, a real courageous cow-boy good old boy God to them.

Did you hear the deafening roar when he walked in? I think this stunt was cheap but I can already hear the news spreading over there "The President was here!" "The President came to see us!".

The reaction you stated is what mine or yours would have been but I remember the genuine, real excitement when some asses would come visit.

I wish I thought as you do. I really do but having been there and seen it, I just can't. Where were you?
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Bush HAD to make the trip since this has become
a tradition for presidents to go to visit some of the overseas troops on Thanksgiving. If he hadn't gone it would have been noted in the media. Wouldn't be surprising if he tried to make out this was a first for a president. How could the braggart resist?
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. It shows his cabal is on a learning curve
they are responding to the only other association of Bush and Iraq image we have. The "Mission Acccomplished" fiasco. THAT probably seemed like a solid gold world class idea at the time. Until Iraq descended in into the third ring of hell.

Note several important differenece:
he didn't "land" while they all stood waiting at attention.

He "arrived" like a favorite brother at a Thanksgiving holiday feast.

He wasn't wearing military garb. He was informal commander in chief attire.

These are subtle yet major clues that the machine has adjusted to a new game plan. We all know the question about his lack of presence in this theater were beginning to swirl at high levels.

The machine can learn. Look out.

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Salviati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. What I think about it...
If any of our soldiers are heartened by shrubs visit, I'm glad that they were able to get something out of it. It still doesn't make his actions any more honorable, as they were undoubtedly taken under the crassest of political motivations. I really hope that some of the soldiers are able to make some lemonade out of the lemons that they keep getting handed by this administration, but I hope that as well they are noticing that he was in and out, stopping just long enough for the photo-op...
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pippin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. Totally gratuitous, and self serving
They rounded a few token soldiers for the photo op. Bush did not visit "The Troops" because "The Troops" were in places where their lives are on the line and where the cowardly thief in chief would not dare venture. He flew in on a jet that had its lights off and was heavily protected. He stayed at the airport for TWO HOURS for heaven's sakes. Didn't even have the courage to go into the field and see what it was really like for these women and men who have to face the hatred he helped bring on.

The whole thing was a pathetic attempt to one up Hilary and a total farce. Sorry Will, much as I respect everything you stand for I don't share your view on this one.
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whathappened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
28. should have given
hima gun a let him fight his way into the turkey dinner like the rest of our fine troops had to
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. as politically motivated as it was
I'll give him kudos for making it a "personal visit"

but it won't make me like him or vote for him

heard on one news blip that Bush* wanted to land a jet on one of those whaddayacallits....ships of the desert...

:evilgrin:
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. He's still human
Sometimes I forget that, and the visit to Iraq reminded me. Even if you count everthing that was done to get him there as cynical and his entire speech as being canned and basically meaningless, you could tell he felt it, and that matters too. I'm not the greatest judge of body language, but I think Bush MIGHT have had some dawning of awareness there. I don't know if I am too avoidant of Bush to judge, but that might have been the first REAL emotion I've seen from him (if you except discomfort and whatever is behind that smirk).
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. He's human allright. Hillary was gonna embarrass him.
He wasn't gonna let a girl beat him.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. I like that she did it
He looks like he is reacting to her. He can't make judgment about a "photo-op." She looks like she is reaching out and touching base with the troops and in light of his visit she looks more genuine - aftger all she is actually spending time there. She "wins" on all counts because Bush is now behind in his own game - even though Hillary isn't playing. Go DEMS - even if the soldiers hate you they can't KILL you (well they can, but they won't) and because of that you can reach them, demonstrate your commitment listen to their concerns and throw it back in Bush's face. We should draft prominent Democrats to spend at least a day in Iraq every day until the election (pie in the sky!). Maybe its the Thanksgiving spirit, but I can't hate Bush today.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. His REAL emotions involved the following:
1.) F&%$, I'm losing the military vote, so I better smooze and smooch some G.I. arses.
2.) People don't like their children being used as cannon fodder for my oil buddies' profits, and many are even daring to publicly say so. Gotta cover my backside with some serious spin on that one.
3.) Just gotta squease some tears out, like my most dreaded threat, GENERAL Wes Clark, or I'm toast in '04. But on the other hand hanging out with Pops on the golf coarse 24/7 sounds a lot better than shoveling out of all the shit I'm in now.
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economic justice Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. In between
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 02:13 PM by economic justice
As much as I hate the guy, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on a lot of things. I think we should stick to slamming the guy on things that are clearly black and white.. His trip to Iraq was actually a fairly gutsy thing and it clearly meant a lot to the troops. I guess I don't really see anything wrong with the trip. Had he just gone home to Crawford we would have been complaining about that too. He's a prick and I don't intend to sound like I am defending him. But, today he did something right. It wasn't much, but it was something and I'll wait to bash him on the next stupid thing he does, which (no doubt) is right around the corner. But today, maybe because it's Thanksgiving, I'll say I am mixed about it, and lean toward giving him a pass on this.
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. #1, Everything Bushmonkey Does Is Without Merit
Merit to the world that is. There's probably some financial merit in it for the pukes somehow, other than selling cars on presswhore TV.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. If it were my child in harm's way over there,
I would consider such a visit insulting and explotative. Obviously those young men and women are simply cannon fodder to * and his Pax Americana cabal. He can go back home to relative safety, while our troops are constantly being pot shot at and know any second could be their last.

P.S. The process of typing this response made my choice of responses on the poll clear. I wasn't before.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. Did he tell the cannon fodder that they should be proud to
kill and die so his corporate buddies can get richer? Did he take his personal cook like he did to the UK? Did he tell the troops that they will soon be joined by his daughters? Was he wearing his flight suit? Did he ask for campaign contributions from the poor saps who are stuck there despite the "Mission Accomplished"?

What a guy! How very courageous of him!

As Opus would say.."Ptooey!"

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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
37. Do you think that he'll attend a funeral now?
I haven't paid that much attention to the shrub's* November surprise. When they interrupted the football pregame with a breaking news from faux I listened to see if maybe hinkley had met up with the smirk*, when they didn't announce that, I checked and nobody else had coverage.
so, I figured photo op, when he takes responsibility for the 435 dead American soldiers, and for all the wounded in VA hospitals now, all the men and women who will never walk again, will never see again, will never hear again, then maybe I'll give the moron* a little credit.
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. To answer your question...
Sort of, but I think it'll most likely be some kind of tribute dedicated to all the fallen soldiers and wounded as well. So yes, the bush* PR will cook up something to have a photo op for the other major criticism against bush* involing the troops.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
38. Here you go- ANGRY soldiers in Iraq
50 troops pissed AWOL's departure put them in danger-read this


But other soldiers grew angry that their departure from the airport was delayed for an hour, while they waited for Air Force One to depart. Finding the door barred, about 50 troops got into a shouting match with the soldier blocking their exit. The streets of Baghdad were too dangerous to delay their departure any longer, they shouted.

"Do you have any idea how many IEDs are on this road?" one soldier shouted, referring to improvised explosive devices or roadside bombs. "I have to get back to my base. I don't want to lose a soldier because the president wants us to sit here."

http://highmarkfunds.stockpoint.com/highmarkfunds/newsp...


With thanks to Rmpalmer! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. dear Mr Pitt
i think it speaks highly of you that you wish to project the spirit in which you would do such a thing. sweet warm fuzzy spirit. but, you really know, i am convinced of that.

keep on!

peace
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
41. Why did he have to keep it a secret?
Other Presidents have made similar holiday visits in times of war without having to be covert about it. Could it be he knows how hated he is, and what a big target he has become?
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
42. a cold calculated Photo OP, PERIOD.
..
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scottcsmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. It does boost morale
From a soldier's point of view, having the President visit is a huge morale booster. Although W's daddy didn't visit my ship during the Gulf war, he did visit troops in Saudi Arabia, and I know they were thrilled that he came to visit. Even though we didn't get a visit from George H.W. Bush, my ship was host to Gen. Colin Powell and Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf. Gen. Schwarzkopf gave a speech to my shipmates and it boosted morale quite a bit.

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mcar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. Somewhere in between
I hate to say it but it was a brilliant political move: crass, but brilliant. The SCLM (so called liberal media) must be going ape over this.

It probably was a boost to a lot of those soldiers, too. He'd be doing them a real favor if he brought them home but this is probably the best he has to offer.

I personally think it's a hypocritical, cynical PR stunt, done with little to no sincerity. But, it probably cheered the troops.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. this is probably a dupe, but pertinent to that sentiment.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Tinoire, sorry. i knew i'd seen the link SOMEwhere here. thanks. n/t
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Lol! I just had to make the same apology to the original poster rpalmer
when,after swiping it from his original thread, I posted it in the same LBN "Bush in Iraq" thread where he'd also posted it.

Trigger happy fingers lol!

:hi:

Peace
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
46. some merit but damn little
simply a transparent rush to look like he has more balls than Hillary. A little too little and a little too late. Most will see through the stunt. Even most of the troops will feel the emptiness of the gesture. He will make taxpayers mad with the constant expense of flying him around the world in search of photo ops they can actually end up using for the coming RAH RAH season.

Our job is to keep the screws to the Rove Propaganda machine to assure that pictures from each and every stunt are rendered useless. Another job is to keep up activities which remind the troops that we support, remember and hold them dear every day of the year

Hugs to Raven from grateful DUers!

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booksenkatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm sure this has already been said
(and I'm still trying to catch up on all the "Bush visit" posts) but my feelings are that it IS the right thing to do, but why the hell does he end up reaping praise for doing what he should have done in the first goddamn place?? Plus, doing it in this "surprise" manner just makes the moment all about HIM, the Movie Star, etc., and that's the puke-inducing factor for me.



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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #48
53.  it IS the right thing to do,
but he did it for all the wrong reasons and most people will know in their bones that is wrong
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
50. If he had stayed a day or 2 that would have been great
but 2 hours? that puts it "somewhere between" for me.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
52. For the wrong reasons, he did the right thing.
They shouldn't be there. And he did it for a campaign photo op and a chance to upstage Senator Clinton.
But it was the right thing to do; even if it is too little.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #52
92. Exactly
Right thing...presidents make this gesture during war times. Some actually feel it is their duty and become connected with the troops and their role as CiC. The troops they come in contact with may feel honored.

Wrong reasons...never have I seen such a crassly executed photo op. I just had a wonderful dinner so I refuse to puke, but I swear to god, this makes me sick.

This is not about the troops, this is about holding on to power. Junior has been getting beat about the head because of his attitude towards the troops. Since that's what it took to get him to act, then he must be judged by his motivation. All fuck head, no cattle.

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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
55. first positive thing I've said about the POS
since he started running for office
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aeon flux Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
56. Putting your life on the line for a racist genocidal war
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 03:02 PM by aeon flux
while being asked to slaughter non-combatants and combatants alike who unlike yourself are legtimately acting in defense of their country.

I don't know how anyone can actually be proud of that shit.
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
58. Pure optics - Rove's game plan being carried out
Image is everything.

Rove wants "popular war-time President" burned into the minds of the masses.

It's working.

The carefully crafted London visit, where the terrorists helped Bush and his "War on terror=War on iraq" message overshadow the massive anti-War rallies by attacking British interests in Turkey, worked out well for the Boy In A Bubble. The American media spent far less time covering the protests after the attacks. The Turkish terrorist event helped to provide cover and justification not only for Bush, but for the beleagured British PM Blair. Blair immediately seized on the attacks as a form of vindication.

What could have been a disaster was somewhat salvaged and Bush supporters could point to how "courageous" the Resident was for "taking on" the commie, pinko British peaceniks.

A few days ago at Fort Collins, Bush once again used soldiers as a photo op and a chance to defend his Iraq policy. CNN also made sure you knew, via the dreaded news scroll, that the glorious President had met with "families of casualty victims". Bush's speech was filled with the usual lies (he once again alluded to Iraq being connected with "terrorists", ergo 9-11), but it didn't matter to the slavish media who so obediently take their directions from Karl Rove.

It has become apparent that America is being slowly marched towards a latent military dictatorship. And I fear that this has been part of the PNAC plan all along. And I truly fear that it might actually happen. It depends on if the American people finally wake up. For as long as the majority of the American people still believe the myths and fantasies of the 9-11 attacks, as long as they believe this "War On Terror" is such a scourge that they must abandon their critical thinking, civil liberties and right to dissent to achieve a victory that may take a lifetime, as long as they are willing to allow the Bush Family Evil Empire to consolidate their wealth and holdings at the expense of the working class and the indigent, then I foresee no other outcome but the eventual installation of a totalitarian system. The glorious, noble, caring, saintly and courageous President George W Bush will be the tool that the Military Industrial Complex uses.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Yep. This was to defuse the disastrous Chicken Hawk One landing...
with its equally disastrous "Mission Accomplished" message.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Rove thinks Bush is expendable. Landing on aircraft carriers and visiting war zones are NOT what you do with real sitting Presidents.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
59. I voted OPTION #4
Not because I believe Mr. Pitt is an apologist for Bush or a 'whore'. I have great respect for William Pitt.

I take an attitude that is far left of liberal. To me 'liberalism,' although its 'heart' may be in the right place, prolongs the agony of not only our troops in Iraq but all of us who are suffering under the yoke of growing fascist Tyrany. There is absolutely NOTHING about the current administration that is NOT a lie--from its oath of office through the events of 9/11, to its statements about Iraq, to "Mission Accomplished," to this new piece of cynical theatre. * is a sock puppet for a treasonous criminal cabal. Nothing he says or does should be given even the slightest credibility or glint of integrity.

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joanski01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
79. I agree with you.
You've got the big picture, and that's exactly what I believe. This cabal doesn't do anything for anybody. Whatever their actions, it's for their own benefit.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
61. It's a bit like thanking Satan for turning down the flames to a low broil.
But in keeping with the holiday, if what * did gives comfort to our people on the front lines, then maybe that's okay.

However, the move was as calculated as a ship in a bottle -- note the timing of the in-'n-out" visit -- it'll be plastered all over the news outlets, on one of the bigest TV-watching days of the year.
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LastTime2BeFree Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
62. Crass my ass
If President Gore were to do this we would never call it crass. You know it, I know it and everybody that is concerned about out troops knows it.

I don't care which president does it...it is ALWAYS a good thing to do.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Yeah, I think "out troops" should be "out" too...
:evilgrin:
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LastTime2BeFree Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Blame Clinton
Don't ask...Don't tell. Remember that cop out?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. LOL- I want the troops out of Iraq, not out of the closet. n/t
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. Of course we would be praising a REAL president.
One that was actually ELECTED - GOT THE MOST VOTES.

An HONERABLE, DECENT MAN - not an AWOL chickenshit chickenhawk who USED LIES to get us into this mess in the first place!

Served honerably - VOLUNTEERED for duty in Vietnam - not AWOL or jetting around the country WORKING FOR A REPUKE CANDIDATE when no others could manage this when they would be FIGHTING.

Yes, there are many reasons why PRESIDENT GORE would have been right and supported.

But then again, PRESIDENT GORE wouln't have lied and cheated us into going there in the first place, and we'd be in the 3rd CONSECTIVE TERM of unparalleled PEACE and PROSPERITY here at home and abroad.

Of that, I have no doubt!
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
64. Clark should use it in a commercial that starts
to run Monday. With a narrative saying that it was nice of the President to go to Iraq for two hours and head home but the men he ate with will be there for a very long time, and why? Then the voice over should say that the President went home whenever it suited him during his military service, without regard to his orders, and eventually just quit, but the men he visited with will report for duty and risk their lives, for what?

I dont necessarily like Clark best but his use of this photo op in an ad isnt impeachable.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
65. It would be a nice gesture
If he brought increased pay, benefits, and new flak jackets.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
66. Mostly, it's evidence of how easy it will be for Bush to manipulate
Iraq to his benefit over the next year.

Of course WE see it for what it is. But 75% of Americans are going to think he's a pretty good guy for doing it.

I suspect his approvals go up a little bit this week.
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Military Brat Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
68. Watching bush is like watching a cartoon character
You know, if there weren't so much at stake, I'd be laughing my a** off as I watch him grasp at straws. He kind of reminds me of Wile E. Coyote" with his stupid schemes.

BTW, I saw the photo, and he looks like crap.
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LauraT28 Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
71. Makes me sick!!!!
I didn't even finish reading the story, and immediately came here!

GIVE ME A BREAK!

:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
72. Makes me want ot puke!
NOTHING that "man" has done or can do will ever make me feel anything but absolute disgust.

OK - he could do ONE thing - LEAVE AL GORE'S HOUSE! That would make be feel good about him, sort of.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
76. Somewhere in between
I'm mean he was only there long enough to say he
was there . served mashed potatoes for 10 min .
I mean come on he should of stayed longer to give
the appearance of caring .

I still think he should be doing more to support
our soldiers.

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remfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
78. This isn't "any conflict"
and this isn't "any other" pResident.

Of course it made the troops (the ones that were there) feel good, but bush has proven in the past that he is more that willing to stage appearances for political gain, that he is quite capable of using troops for photo-ops, and one cannot help but look at subsequent events with a jaundiced eye.

And if it talks like a photo-op, walks like a photo-op, and dresses like a photo-op...it probably is a photo-op.

Everything, and I mean everything, they do is politically motivated.
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drscm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
80. This man has not publicly honored the dead
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 05:18 PM by drscm
returning from Iraq or Afghanistan. Why? It is not a good photo op to remind people of the consequence of his war. This man has not visited the hospitals where those who were maimed are suffering because of a war which he unilaterally started. Why? It is not a good photo op.

The fact is he could have done either of these without leaving the boundaries of the United States, but has done neither. He could have done it TODAY on Thanksgiving, but he is not concerned about thanks. He is concerned about being re-Selected to serve his corporate masters.

Visiting the troops in Iraq - those that are alive, those that have the luxury of a Thanksgiving dinner (unlike many who are patrolling) - is nothing but a blatant photo op. He is using these human beings, as he uses all human beings, as a backdrop for his reelection campaign.

As I pray daily for my two nephews in the military and a nephew-in-law who may soon be called up for service in Iraq,I also pray that God may relieve me of my anger and the despair I feel because of this power-hungry and war-mongering administration and it's puppet pResident.

I am only surprised that he did not include a trip to Saudi Arabia to raise funds for his campaign, considering all that he has done to protect them from incurring any wrath for the part they played in 9/11.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Well put.
:thumbsup:
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
82. I think the troops could sense it wasn't really about them
It was a glorified photo-op and they know it--this makes it particularly crass.
Re the smiling troops: either the Bushit loyalists were personally chosen to "be surprised"--or they are smiling at their private in-jokes about their glorious "leader" and how he has done jack for them except make their lives a living hell.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
83. The is like a roschart test. The response tells you more about
the responder than it does about the Bush visit.

No President is totally evil or totally good. Bill Clinton also visited troops in the field. It was a good thing to have done, even if he did have his own purposes for it. Not good enough to change my vote, but it was a good thing.
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drscm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. No president is totally evil or totally good?
I would like to agree with that, but I am having a hell of a time finding the good in this one.

The day he made fun of Karla Faye Tucker was the day I realized that this man is simple evil.

Perhaps you could educate me, what good has he contributed to the world - and solely not his corporate supporters? I look and look, but have not found any.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. I would agree that
every human has the potential for good. * has squandered that potential. For whatever reasons, he has made choices. Just his environmental policies alone would make an army of orcs envious. He has abused the children of the planet with images of violence, fear and war. Of course I could go on and on, but the point is he made his choices. He drove whatever goodness he was born with into exile. I believe everyone is capable of redemption, but the man seems a bit too arrogant, egocentric, immature and possibly insane to come clean.

His Iraq trip? Sure he should have gone a long time ago, but he's still a liar and a murderer, nothing will change that.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
84. as a tax payer, i want to know how much it cost. anybody know?
these god damned liberals spending my money on publicity stunts.

how many schools could have been built?

how many old folks could have had medicine?

how many new cops on the beat did it cost?

how many new fire fighters did it cost?

how many college scholarships did it cost?

how many miles of new roads did it cost?

how many tons of pollution could have been removed from my air and water?

THAT'S THE REAL COST OF THIS FUCKING STUNT.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
86. Hey...the B&W version of "34th Street" is one of my favorite movies...
...of all time! Call me sentimental and an old-time southern romantic!

Okay...the greetings are over, now to the nitty-gritty.

I have no doubt in my political brain that Coke-N-Smoke was sent to Iraq in complete knee-jerk reaction to Hillary's trip to Afghanistan. Can you imagine what it was like in the White House when the Junta heard THAT news! LOL!! Rove must have been just livid trying to kick Coke-N-Smoke's butt on AF One. Wonder who had to explain to Pickles why Herr Numbnuts couldn't be home for Thanksgiving?

Wish I'd been a fly on the wall watching that ant-hill when it got kicked over! :D

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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
87. Hillary's visit made BBC News
FWIW
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
88. Now that a leader with WMD's is finally in Bagdad, maybe we should
nuke the place.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
89. He did it to counter
any negative talk about his not attending funerals or allowing the traditional ceremony for dead soldiers returning and the misson accomplished fiasco. Remember, this is the administration who started the war for oil. Anything else - anything, IMO, is political trappings. This one is meant to make him look daring and caring when he is capable of neither.
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. Exactly!! First Campaign stop of the '04 election.
If Bush had been engaged in paying tribute to the dead and wounded instead of hiding our casualties, maybe I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'll eat my computer if footage from this visit doesn't show up as campaign ads.
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gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
90. It seems like a good thing
but then it was George Bush who flew in to "thank them" do you suppose he thanked them for making all his friends rich and for fighting an unjust war that only benefits corporations......I doubt it....if I was there it would make me sick.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
94. at least he didn't parachute down into Baghdad.....
I hate the bas-terd also.
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populistmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
95. It's all about the campaign ads
Plain and simple. He filmed a commercial under the protection of fighter planes and hundreds (if not thousands) of soldiers. This guy has no heart. If he did, he'd be attending funerals rather than photo-ops.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
96. I am mixed as well
A President visiting the troops on Thanksgiving is a positive gesture. He put himself at some limited risk to do so. I credit him with a noble gesture, even if the mostives were not so pure.

On the other hand the speech, while apparently rousing for the troops, was clearly a political photo op.

Bush has been wanting to make this speech in some place where the response would be nothing but cheering. There are few if any other places he could have gone to accomplish this.

A reporter had an interesting note to add, even as Bush* was leaving, she could hear the intermittent explosions of mortar rounds landing in the distance.
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salmonhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
97. Mr. Pitt, there is not a response in this poll...
...for what, in my opinion, has more truly taken place. Firstly, it was no crass venture; make no mistake about that. In that We The People are by article entitled to know where our president is within any reasonable template; presumably being known I should say as to risks surrounding the dealings (I'm not talking about peering into secret meeting, that would be silly; but he already conducts far too many personal affairs at his ranch in Crawford and this has been accepted by the populace) with our Federal Government; this visit is for me the first 'shake-down cruise' of a new world order CEO doing and not saying whatever the hell they ask of him.

So long as the media continues to marvel as to the amazing systemic circumvention of all things American there is every likelyhood that more and varied such activity is to sometime follow upto and including the absence of 'a president' that the American people can even point to at all.

I expect more of these very stunts in the future.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
98. Using American troops as an accessory to his lies is despicable...
This is normal for this guy and his thugs. The feepers probably are all walking around with big woodies.
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