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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:26 PM
Original message
If Bush thinks NAZI thing is bad, wait till JFK stuff goes public!
It's about time that the mainstream media started giving some play to the NAZIBush Organized Crime Family Axis.

http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031...


There's something that the Bushes fear even more, however. That's the family connection to the JFK Assassination.

Did you know a "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" was de-briefed by J Edgar Hoover in the hours after President Kennedy's murder? Did you know this "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" gave Hoover the names of "Cuban Americans" Bush thought might be involved in the President's murder?

http://www.geocities.com/verisimus101/wcr/nixon-bush.ht...

http://www.freeworldalliance.com/jfkmurder/thetruth.htm

Did you know George Herbert Walker Bush's friend George de Mohrenschildt is the only man known to have been friends with both Bush and Lee Harvey Oswald?

http://www.lizmichael.com/bushykno.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/ohwhy/Bush.html


If not, you're not alone. Once our friends in the Press start to pick up on it, America will fast become a very different place. A place of Laws again. Thank Goodness. The Bush Organized Crime Family is going to need it once the 9-11 stuff gets REALLY investigated.



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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. CUBANS! Of course!
Most of us asked WTF when Bush started going after Castro. But why should we be surprised? The very thing Jr. did when he got selected was to seal all Poppy's old files. Then seek revenge on Saddam for dissing Poppy. Now he wants to take out Cuba.

It all makes so much sense now.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. GOOGLE: Operation NORTHWOODS
In brief, it was a plan authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1962 that called for staging terror events in Florida and the southern United States including the hijacking of American civil airliners and the detonation of bombs in public buildings to garner public support for an invasion of Cuba. JFK vetoed the plan. Later, during the Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962, several of the JCS would characterize Kennedy as a coward for not launching nuclear war against the Soviet Union.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
98. OUCH!!!!!.................
This wouldn't look good on The bushies resume!!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #98
119. The powers-that-be used Dallas to build support for Cuba invasion...
During the Cuban Missile Crisis of October, 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, almost the entire cabinet, and most of Congress that had been briefed wanted JFK to launch a nuclear strike against the Soviet Union, even if it meant global nuclear war.

Thanks to Adlai Stevenson and Bobby Kennedy, the President ordered the government agencies to work out an alternative. That was the embargo. For his trouble keeping the world from ending, JFK was branded "soft" on communism and worse.

One of the things that has most troubled me about the JFK assassination is that there is so much evidence indicating government duplicity in the killing. Chief among these is the concerted efforts to paint Oswald as being a communist sympathizer who wanted to shoot the President and then flee to Cuba.

(This is in addition to the trail created before the assassination: One man purchased trucks in Oswald's name. Another took a car dealer on a harrowing "test drive" and said he'd be "coming into money" soon.)

A man impersonating Oswald appeared at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City. The CIA, for decades, stated the man was Oswald only to later recant and state they don't know who the man was. Well that, to me, shows SOMEONE went to a lot of trouble to point the finger at Castro. I think these high-ups are the ones who today want to overthrow Castro. Their cheerleader-in-chief, Smirk Bush.



This is the man the CIA top brass claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Striking there's no similarity. Notice the forearms, those of a very strong man.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
100. This is incredible info Octafish!
I hope that they hound this guy down!!!

And imprison every one of his off-spring!!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #100
107. If there was ever a need for a Citizen's Grand Jury, this is it...
... I'd volunteer to be the guy to deliver the subpoena, slap the handcuffs on, read the remaining Miranda rights, frog march the bloody lot of them out of the White House, the Pentagon, the Congress, the Media, Wall Street, the boardrooms and every place else that shields them and has benefited from their TREASON.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. You'll have a lot of help...
because it's been a LONG time coming..
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #111
123. Thanks, Pennsylvania! There's hope afloat...
Here's one guy who just might want to help us get a REAL Attorney General on our side...



John Kerry, left, sails with President John F. Kennedy
aboard the 62-foot Coast Guard yawl Manitou
in Narragansett Bay on Aug. 26, 1962.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
97. Don't forget about the Venezuelans too!
They have been on a vendetta for a long long time!!!!

We just need to catch these bozos on tape some where!!!

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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think the legitimate press is starting to zone in.
I've noticed the PBS news programs are casting an increasingly critical eye on the Bush administration and the Iraq mess. As for the media whores, the only thing that will change them is low ratings or being sold to owners with good journalistic standards.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. The tide's changing.
Let's hope it floats our boat and grounds theirs.

You're right, Clete. It is perceptible. These guys have begun to change their tune. Who's paying for the musicians is another matter. It may be that the inside cabal knows Bushler is damaged goods and are showing him the door before he manages to destroy everything. Either that or they're setting us up for the kind of government we deserve.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
60. I think there is a big crack
in the intelligence community, particularly the CIA (Christians in Action) and FBI. People like Wilson, Crowley on the one side and the "faith based bunch" on the other. Bush's treason in the Plame affair has deepened that division IMO.

Great thread here.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. If you think the JFK is bad
Wait till the stuff that Prescott Bush was actually Elvis comes out!!!

:tinfoilhat:
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You can't even spell your name right
its Brainscrub not "brainshrub". Jeez....... :eyes:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. "What was Raymond doing with his hands?"
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. "He wasn't a Communist, Mother. He was a Republican."
My favorite line from "Manchurian Candidate" - super movie!!
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
61. Is that really a quote from the movie??
I gotta get this. :bounce:
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
56. Ha, Ha, Ha, a picture for all occassions
Is that from "The Manchurian Candidate"?

Just coincidently I read about the guy who coined the term "brainwashing" in Russell's book "The Man Who knew". Forgot his name. I might look it up again.

Funny as hell. :bounce:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #56
75. "Fun with Hydrangeas"


Here's the outstanding script by the late George Axelrod:

http://www.geocities.com/emruf/mc.html
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #75
77.  Oswald / HIDell was linked to Korea!

That is about as close to Manchuria as it gets.

Here is more from Russell's book:

"AlekHidell was also an alias known to have been used by Lee Harvey Oswald in many of his 1963 activities, Nagell was alleging that an Oswald tourist card had been in his possession." (pp. 113)

"Some researchers have speculated that "Hidell" was Oswald's own weird composite of "Fidel" and "Lee Harvey". Others think it might even be a combination of "Jekyll and Hyde". Warren Commission files contain a statement from a John Rene Heindel, who has been stationed with Oswald at Atsugi, saying that fellow Marines often referred to Heindel by the nickname "Hidell". The commission's conclusion was that he simply borrowed the name from his old acquaintance. (Footnote 38)(pp.170-71)

In my conversations with Nagell, it became clear that the "Hidell" alias had a particular significance. In fact, it was some kind of code name in an intelligence operation. Its origins, once again, track back to the Far East and go far beyond anything Oswald might have thought up on his own.

We were in Nagell's living room at our very first meeting when he volunteered that he knew "precisely where the name Hidell came from and why it was used". He went on to say that the Warren Commission was off-base but that neither did the "Hidell" usage emanate directly out of either CIA or FBI headquarters-- even though dossiers of both agencies would reveal Oswald's use of several variations of the name. (39)

" The pseudonyms 'Albert' and 'Aleksei Hidel' were given to Oswald." Nagell added, "by whom, could be discovered by CIA authorities by breaking the last name into two syllables and by determining precisely what those syllables meant. " (40)

After that I spent a long time puzzling over certain references made by Nagell in some of his correspondence:




-Is "Hidell" a name...or does it signify something else?"
-- "Who suggested the name "HIDell" for use by Oswald in his Fair Play for Cuba venture? Why? Did Nagell ever spell his name 'Nagel'? Was Oswald ever furnished a Mexican Tourist Card under the name of Albert Hidel? Why? Of what significance is the name 'Albert'? Alek? Aleksei?" (41)

Nagell seemed to be saying that if you dropped the last letter of the "Hidell" surname--or, for that matter, on his own name--it bore a different meaning. It was some kind of signal.

Then, in 1978, we had a short discussion about the language of intelligence, Nagell told me that the CIA generally used six-letter cryptonyms to designate certain operations, or even individuals within operations (42). Yet Nagell implied that the CIA did not know the real root of the six--letter HIDELL name. So it followed that some other agency, familiar with CIA cryptonyms, might have made it out to look like a CIA derivation.

The KGB, Nagell also imparted to me, sometimes used five-letter words as code name, Drop the "L" from Hidelll or Nagell and that's what you have. Since Nagell, as a "double agent, " was working several sides of the street, might the variation on the alias depend upon which side he, or Oswald, were communicating with? That is, if Oswald even knew who was really behind his use of the name.

I set about dividing the name into syllables. I also noted Nagell's deliberate underlining of the HID half. And, in perusing the documents he had filed with the Court of Claims about his early military career, I observed that he had underlined "HID" not only pertaining to Oswald. He also did so harkening back to his mid-fifties career with Military Intelligence's intelligence outfit, the Headquarter Intelligence Division, or HID, forerunner of the Korean CIA.

Also , among the papers seized by the FBI after the bank incident was a typed slip of paper listing sixteen Korean names under the heading "H.I.D" And, as noted earlier in this chapter, Nagell's notebook accounting of 1962-63 meeting places in a number of cities had "JAPANEZE GOV'T--ROK." at the bottom.




Could this be the connection? I arranged to meet with Nagell at a place in Hollywood called the Raincheck. Early in our conversation, I said. "I think I know where the Hidell name came from" We were sitting a couple of feet apart at a corner table. Nagell looked at me with a quizzical expression.

"You gave Oswald that name to use," I continued. "HID is derived from the Korean intelligence outfit that you worked for the FOI. and 'ELL' are the last three letters of your own name."

Nagell did not reply. He stared back at me, did not deny it and quickly changed the subject. (43)......" (pp.170-72)



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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. And then the Reverand Moon links up with Japaneze fascists
in late 62'.....the Axis powers re-unite.

This is excerpted from Robert Parry's book Lost History (pages 200-203):

"Moon's Korea-based church got its first boost as an international organization when Kim Jong-Pil, the founder of the Korean Central Intelligence Agency, brokered a relationship between Moon and one of Japan's leading rightist financiers, Ryoichi Sasakawa. Sasakawa had been jailed after WWII as a war criminial, but was freed, along with Yoshio Kodama , by U.S. military intelligence officials eager to enlist their help in combatting leftist political forces in Japan.......

In the early 1960's, Kim Jong-Pil's intelligence contacts with these right-wing leaders proved invaluable to Moon, who had made only a few converts in Japan. After Kim Jong-Pil opened the door to Kodama and Sasakawa in late 1962, 50 leaders of an ultra-nationalist Japanese Buddhist sect converted en mase to the Unification Church, giving it a strong base in Japan that remains to this day.....






Dark side of the Moon by Bob Fitrakis (Reprinted with the permission of Columbus Alive. This article originally appeared in the 24 February 2000 issue of that newspaper.)

After Texas Governor George W. Bush faltered in New Hampshire, a spooky and shadowy right-wing network came to his rescue in South Carolina, turning a certain primary defeat into a double-digit victory. As the Washington Post noted, An array of conservative groups have come in to reinforce Bushs message with phone banks, radio ads and mailings of their own. Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen asserted that Bush embraces the far-right fringe. From the racists who prohibit interracial dating at Bob Jones University to the moronic Confederate flag wavers, from Rush Limbaugh to Pat Robertson, and from the most extreme elements of the right-to-life movement to the Moonies, the Bush family network prevailed. NBCs Tim Russert pointed out that George W. was now indebted to Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and the Christian right..........

In 1977, Congressman Donald Fraser launched an investigation into Moons background. The 444-page Congressional report alleged Moonie involvement with bribery, bank fraud, illegal kickbacks and arms sales. The report revealed that This is excerpted from Robert Parry's book Lost History (pages 200-203):

"Moon's Korea-based church got its first boost as an international organization when Kim Jong-Pil, the founder of the Korean Central Intelligence Agency, brokered a relationship between Moon and one of Japan's leading rightist financiers, Ryoichi Sasakawa. Sasakawa had been jailed after WWII as a war criminial, but was freed, along with Yoshio Kodama , by U.S. military intelligence officials eager to enlist their help in combatting leftist political forces in Japan.......

In the early 1960's, Kim Jong-Pil's intelligence contacts with these right-wing leaders proved invaluable to Moon, who had made only a few converts in Japan. After Kim Jong-Pil opened the door to Kodama and Sasakawa in late 1962, 50 leaders of an ultra-nationalist Japanese Buddhist sect converted en mase to the Unification Church, giving it a strong base in Japan that remains to this day.....

Through WACL and other political relatioships, Moon built bridges to right-wing forces in South America during the 1970's. As DEA agent Michael Levine noted in his book Deep Cover, the DEA arrested Jose Robeto Gasser in May 1980 for allegedly smuggling 854 pounds of cocaine base. To Levine's amazement, Gasser, the son of a Bolivian WACL leader, 'was almost immediately released' for what Levine suspected were geopolitical reasons. Gasser's father was a leading figure in the coup to overthtrow Bolivia's left-of-center government. The putsch on July 17, 1980, became known as the Cocaine Coup because it gave the drug lords free rein of the country and allowed protected shipments of coca base in Columbia.
s 20,000-member Unification Church was a creation of Korean Central Intelligence Agency (KCIA) Director Kim Chong Phil as a political tool to influence U.S. foreign policy. The U.S. CIA was the agency primarily responsible for the founding of the KCIA. The Moon organizations have denied any links with the Korean government or intelligence community. Moon, who is Korean, and his two Japanese buddies, Sasakawa and Kodama, first joined together in the 1960s to form the Asian Peoples Anti-Communist League with the aid of KCIA agents, alleged Japanese organized crime money and financial support from Chinese Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek. The League concentrated on uniting fascists, right-wing, and anti-Communist forces throughout Asia.


And then Poppy's close link to Moon:

pp. 290-92


"..Bush's links to South American underworld figures also extends through Rev. Sun Myung Moon's business political-religious empire. In the 1960's and 70's Moon's Unification Church developed close ties to organized crime figures in Asia and South America. In 1980, Moon's organization collaborated with a right-wing military putsch in Bolivia that turned that country into the region's first narco-state.
Over the next two decades, Moon poured hundreds of millions of dollars into conservative political organizations. Though losing an estimated $100 million a year, moon's 'Washington Times' newspaper became a flagship of conservative movement. Yet, according to Moon's close associates and court records, Moon has financed his operations, in part, with vast sums of cash smuggled into the United States as well as through a suspected money-laundering base in Uruguay. (102)

In recent years, as his religious mission in the United States has shrunk to about 3,000 members, Moon has grown bitterly anti-American. In speeches, he has denounced the United States as 'the kingdom of Satan' or as 'Satan's harvest'. In one speech on Aug 4, 1996, Moon decried American 'individualism' and declared that 'the world will reject Americans who continue to be so foolish. Once you have this great power of love, which is big enough to swallow entire America, there may be some individuals who complain inside your stomach. However they will be digested. (103)

Despite this anti-Americanism, Bush has maintained close ties to Moon and the Washington Times. In 1991, when Wesley Pruden was named the new editor, Bush invited Pruden to a private White House lunch 'just to tell you how valuable the 'Times has become in Washington, where we read it every day". (104)

Once out of office, Bush went to work for Moon as a paid speaker in Asia, the United States and South America. Bush's office has refused to divulge how much Moon's organization paid Bush, but a source close to Moon put the total high as $10 million.

Bush proved especially valuable when Moon launched a newspaper in South America. The theocrat confronted a skeptical reception because of his past support for the region's brutal military dictatorships and evidence Moon associates to the drug trade. On Nov. 22, 1996, Bush came to the rescue. He flew to Buenos Aires and paved the way for Moon with Argentine president Carlos Menem.

Bush also was the keynote speaker at a gala reception for the new newspaper, 'Tiempos del Mundo'. With Moon sitting just a few feet away, Bush lavished praise on the theocrat.

'I want to salute Reverend Moon, who is the founder of 'The Washington Times' and also of 'Tiempo del Mundo', Bush declared. Alot of my friends in South America don't know about 'The Washington Times', but it is an independent voice. The editors of 'the Washington Times' tell me that never once has the man with the vision interfered with the running of the paper, a paper that in my view brings sanity to Washington."

Bush's praise thrilled Moon's supporter. 'Once again, heaven turned a disappointment into a victory.' proclaimed the'Unification News', the church's internal newsletter. . But Bush's claim of journalistic independence at 'The Washington Times' was false. Since the paper's inception in 1982, editors and reporters have resigned in protest over editorial interference by Moon's lieutenants. The first editor. James Whelan, resigned in 1984, confessing to 'blood on my hands' for giving Moon legitimacy.

Former President Bush, however, seemed to have no such qualms. One source close to the Bush camp said the ex-president saw the value of building an alliance with the powerful Moon organization as an asset for his son's presidential run.

Given the failure of the Washington press corps to hold the Reagan-Bush administrations accountable for much these past two decades, the ex-president might have good reason to assume that the pattern will continue through 2000--and maybe, that the 'lost history' will stay lost forever...."


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HalfManHalfBiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. I did not know we had a spelling bee champion here
Congratulations. And, yes, I think Oswald was a meanie.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. As the Roman playwright Seneca warns us:
"Cui prodest scelus, is fecit"-- the one who derives advantage from the crime is the one most likely to have committed it.
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HalfManHalfBiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. Excellent. A Latin Scholar.
Yahoo Groups can be very enlightening. Nevermind the embellished translation.

What did Seneca say about dumbasses?
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #92
106. Oh so you are into self-exploration these days?
:bounce: , hee, hee :bounce:

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #81
116. 9215's called a Contributor.
9215 adds to the conversation. People who read what 9215 posts LEARN something. Writing something of value takes work and someone who cares a Democrat.

OTOH: Anybody can be a smart ass, even on a half-ass post of zero worth. Those are people who just criticize. I don't know what to call them, but what they do takes something important away from a discussion.

So, Half and Half: Why are you so interested in denigrating DUers who are interested in learning about the JFK assassination and the rise of the BFEE? Don't you think the events of today have their origins in the events of the past? Not trying to come off half-cocked. I just want to know.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. 'Brain shrub' as in 'small brain'?
Appropriate name! :toast:
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
43. Or that Prescott
Was and still is the Chairman of "United States of America - China Chamber of Commerce" during the downing of our spy plane and holding of hostages right after "flightsuit" took office and was in China during nagotiations to get the hostages back after they dismantled our plane and charged us $1mil for storage.

http://www.govsux.com/chinechamberofcommerce.htm



Retyred In Fla

So I Read This Book
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Different Prescott Bush -- USCCOC head is Poppy's brother. not dad
The Bushes do recycle their family names. Or should I say inbreed?
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getbush Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
51. Nothing compared to....
Wait till it comes out that Bush actually has a brain, albeit small.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. George de Mohrenschildt?
I'd like to know more about Bush's link to de Mohrenschildt.

De Mohrenschildt was a White Russian in Texas, a CIA man, and closest friend to Oswald after Oswald's return from Russia. Quite possibly Oswald's CIA handler. It was de Mohrenschildt, I believe, who got Oswald set up in Dallas.

On the day de Mohrenschildt was to testify before the House Select Committee, he was found suicided.

In his address book was found the old entry "Bush, George H. W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland."

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Check out ciajfk.com
It's one of the most difficult sites to navigate I've discovered. It's worth the runaround. It really has a treasure trove of all things de Mohrenschildt, including letters written to Poppy and documents linking Kissinger to Poppy and de Mohrenschildt.

http://www.ciajfk.com /

If the following still work, there's a photo from Dealey Plaza taken a few minutes after the assassination seeming to capture a tall, thin, patrician looking fellah with male pattern baldness and bearing a striking resemblance to the hunched figure of one George Herbert Walker Bush.

http://www.ciajfk.com/images/ghwb.htm

http://www.ciajfk.com/images/ghwb-2.htm

Yeh. I wish de Mohrenschildt had lived to talk to Gaeton Fonzi, the investigator for the House Select Committee on Assassinations. Fonzi was to have met with the guy that very afternoon. The last person "the Baron" met with his last morning was author David Lifton
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. I like the way your mind works, Octafish,
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 12:00 AM by Minstrel Boy
because mine seems to work in a similar fashion. :toast:

Thanks for the links. I've been to that site before, but as you say, it's horrible to navigate. I'll need to give it another go.

Have you read Fonzi's The Last Investigation? I need to track down a copy. Looks like it's out of print, though it's highly recommended. Sprague's forced departure from the helm of the House Select Committee on Assassinations meant, finally, there will be no "truth and reconciliation" on the Kennedys and King coming from Washington. We're on our own.




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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Thanks Minstrel Boy! Same goes!
Yes, I've read Fonzi's book. The guy was a crackerjack investigator and it shows in his writing. He spends a great part of the book drawing a map showing who's who and what's what and builds up a case to support the CIA-Cuban Ultranationalist-Mafia-axis.

The most important part I remember is he thought the physical evidence of the case alone was proof of conspiracy. Fonzi said the President's jacket, shirt and tie had bullet holes that were inconsistent with the three-shot scenario of the Warren Commission (Thanks a lot, Arlen Specter, you traitoreous turd).

The shirt and jacket each had a hole below the right shoulder blade. The tie indicated a shot passed cleanly through the knot, meaning there was a bullet that either came in or went out that way. That's two shots (one of which was supposed to have caused both holes and then gone on to wound Connally through the chest, arm and leg). The third, of course, was the one that exploded the President's head.

So, it becomes (practically) impossible to account for the fourth shot, which hit the curb near a policeman and bloodied a bystander. That's the information that caused the lickspittle Specter and his masters on the WC to come up with a new explanation.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. Not David Lifton ... Meant "Edward Jay Epstein."
My sincere apologies. Didn't notice my mistake until a half hour past the edit grace period. Sorry to Mr. Lifton and Mr. Epstein both talented investigators and authors.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks, I'd thought I'd recently read it was Epstein.
Probe's anthology "The Assassinations" mentions also that David Ferrie's last known visitor was Washington Post national security reporter Georger Lardner Jr., who said he left Ferrie's at 4 am on the day Ferrie was to be called before the Grand Jury.

Lisa Pease writes that de Morenschildt and Ferrie dying on the day they were to testify, with their last known visitors being journalists, "may truly be bizarre coincidences. But it's not impossible to believe that someone was monitoring the activities of Ferrie and de Mohrenschildt through these journalists, and if information was to come out that might be particularly sensitive, someone may have seen fit to silence the witnesses."

When I read that, I was reminded that it was the New York Times' highly compromised Judith Miller who received David Kelly's last email, the one in which he mentioned "many dark actors playing games."
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
26. I'd like to know more about this de Mohrenschildt
This is a fascinating thread.

I've never heard this name before, de Mohrenschildt. Any more info on him?

A book to read?

Octafish, you post the best threads.

xx
S
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Stephanie, you say the nicest things! Same goes!
From what I know, George De Mohrenschildt is the only man known to have been friends with both George Herbert Walker Bush and Lee Harvey Oswald. The guy had both their names and contact info in his address book. From what I remember, he even included Bush Sr's nickname, "Poppy," and Bar's birthday.

When Oswald was new to the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, De Mohrenschildt who until then had hung out exclusively with country club oil-exec types took "the working class loner and loser" under his wing. There are good indications De Mohrenschildt was Oswald's CIA "handler," or the guy who kept an eye on a former or current contact or agent. Oswald, based on government records and the facts surrounding his "defetion" to the Soviet Union, was CIA-connected, if not an asset.

There are at least two outstanding books on the subject: Professor John Newman, a retired US Army major and a former instructor at West Point, wrote "Oswald and the CIA." Professor Philip Melanson, who teaches at a Massachusetts state university, wrote "Spy Saga."

Online, an excellent biography from Oliver Stone's JFK web site:

Baron George De Mohrenschildt -- he did not use the title, but claimed it based on his Swedish grandfather's commission from the Queen of Sweden -- was born in Czarist Russia near the Polish border. He spoke at least six languages; was married four times; and is alleged to have performed services for at least three intelligence agencies, including the CIA, the OSS (the CIA's predecessor), and French intelligence. His biography remains one of the great marginal mysteries related, at least by circumstance, to the Kennedy assassination. De Mohrenschildt could at various points of his life count as personal friends such notables as President Lyndon B. Johnson, Texas oil billionaire H. L. Hunt, then-Zapata Oil chief George Herbert Walker Bush, and Janet Auchinchloss, mother of Jacqueline Kennedy. Not to mention Lee Harvey Oswald.

De Mohrenschildt told the Warren Commission that, while living in Texas, he'd heard from friends of a young Russian-speaking American with a Russian-born wife living in Fort Worth, and was intrigued enough to arrange a meeting. He said he'd informally inquired about Oswald with a friend, J. Walton Moore of the CIA's Domestic Contact Service. According to the Baron, Moore informed him that Oswald was "just a harmless lunatic." Moore adamantly denied ever discussing Oswald with De Mohrenschildt, but acknowledged that he had a long-standing relationship with the Baron.

In 1977 De Mohrenschildt was recovering from a nervous breakdown. He tracked down at his daughter's home in Florida by author Edward Jay Epstein, then researching his Oswald biography, Legend. The Baron claimed that he'd deceived the Warren Commission on one significant issue: He hadn't asked J. Walton Moore about Oswald; Moore had first mentioned Oswald to him, as far back as 1961, when the "defector" was still in the USSR. Upon Oswald's return, Moore suggested De Mohrenschildt look into Oswald, as the Domestic Contact Division was anxious to debrief Oswald, and apparently Oswald had refused their overtures. In exchange for some assistance from the Agency in smoothing out bureaucratic details of his planned move to Haiti, De Mohrenschildt befriended Oswald and allegedly passed along information to Moore. (Perhaps correctly, perhaps not, Epstein did not believe him.)(1)

De Mohrenschildt's life took a serious turn for the worse after the assassination of President Kennedy. Called back from Haiti to testify before the Warren Commission, De Mohrenschildt would later claim he'd told the Commission what he believed it wanted to hear, characterizing Oswald as "an unstable individual, mixed-up individual, uneducated individual."(2) "He had nothing. He had a bitchy wife, he had no money, was a miserable failure in everything he did."(3)

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfkcameooltmans.html
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Nottingham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yep I think Bush better find that Leak or More Bush Leaks will be out
:bounce:
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Poppy is the only man on earth that doesn't remember
where he was on that day.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Strange so many "conservatives" can't remember
... important personal information about that terrible day:

E Howard Hunt, of Bay of Pigs and Watergate fame, testified in a civil trial he could not remember where he was the day of the assassination. Hunt was suing a right-wing rag that published an article stating he was in Dallas. Hunt couldn't even convince his own kids where he was. They must have suspected something was wrong after seeing the resemblance to one of the "tramps" arrested jumping a train in Dealey Plaza minutes after the shooting. Oh yeh. Hunt had his ears surgically altered, making it difficult to use to make a positive id.

http://www.ajweberman.com/coupt3.htm

Some others of note:

Tricky Dick Nixon said he couldn't recall where he was. First he said he heard about the assassination while riding in a cab in NYC. Then, year later, he remembered he was at a "Pepsi convention" in Dallas after so many eyewitnesses placed him at the airport the morning of 22 November 1963.

J Edgar Hoover said he couldn't. Although Anthony Summers found evidence he was at a party at some Texas oil barons along with Nixon.

Lyndon Johnson helped arrange the motorcade route and seating arrangements, insisting until overruled by JFK that his Texas liberal rival Sen. Ralph Yarborough (ch. sp.) should ride with JFK rather than Gov. John Connally.

Then there's the rest of the men Nixon called "The Texans" James Baker, Robert Mosbacher and George "He'll do anything for our side" Bush, along with the Murchisons, Hunts and assorted oil barons.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. I wonder how Hoover could forget where he was as
he is the one who called Robert Kennedy to inform him that JFK had been shot (at least that's what I've read). I've always assumed he did that with a certain amount of glee.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
117. Hoover spent the next day at the Race Track...
...with his trusted right-hand Clyde Tolson, according to Anthony Summers and Edward Livingstone.

Here's a nice overview of some reasons to suspect Hoover's involvment:

EXCERPT...

J. Edgar Hoover

J. Edgar Hoover strongly disliked, and in fact hated, John Kennedy. Hoover began collecting smear material on Kennedy's personal life when young Jack was in the Navy, and he continued to monitor JFK's private affairs until the day of the assassination. There is evidence that Hoover provided LBJ with derogatory information on Kennedy that enabled Johnson to blackmail his way onto the ticket (64:271-273).

In 1979 the HSCA discovered that the FBI had recorded conversations in 1962 and 1963 between various Mafia leaders and their subordinates in which threats to kill JFK and wishes to see him murdered were expressed (28:290; 56). Incredibly, Hoover never reported these threats to the Secret Service. Even more disturbingly, he did not mention them to President Kennedy, nor to Robert Kennedy, who was the Attorney General (and Hoover's boss) at the time. And, after the assassination, Hoover saw to it that little if any evidence of Mafia involvement in the shooting reached the Warren Commission (28:281-303).

Hoover's principal motive for wanting President Kennedy dead is fairly obvious: He knew JFK was not going to reappoint him as the director of the FBI after the 1964 election. In addition, Hoover felt Kennedy was an immoral, bleeding-heart liberal who was endangering America and the free world. (In point of fact, Kennedy was quite conservative on economic matters and had shown a willingness to stand up to Soviet aggression. Furthermore, under Kennedy's economic policies, which included generous tax cuts, the economy performed well, as even conservative leaders like Jack Kemp and Donald Lambro have noted.)

For more information on Hoover's role in the assassination, I would recommend Mark North's book ACT OF TREASON: THE ROLE OF J. EDGAR HOOVER IN THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY.

Resources:

28. John Davis, MAFIA KINGFISH: CARLOS MARCELLO AND THE ASSASSINATION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY, Signet Edition, New York: Signet, 1989.

64. Anthony Summers, OFFICIAL AND CONFIDENTIAL: THE SECRET LIFE OF J. EDGAR HOOVER, London: Victor Gollancz, 1993.

CONTINUED with more info and an interesting listing of possible suspects and motives...

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/griffith/Suspe...
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
69. Bush's ailment is known as "Waldheimer's Disease"......
Remember the flap about Austria's UN ambassador Kurt Waldheim back in the early Reagan years when they found out about his Nazi past? He said he couldn't remember.

American Medical Dictionary (3rd Edition):
"Waldheimer's Disease": Occurs when people grow old and forget they were/are Nazis.

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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Ever think about...
<tinfoil hat> how many of the evil things that have happened in America in the past 40 years can be connected to poppy Bush? I'm not talking about 7 degrees of separation, either. I mean, the Bushes being good friends with the Hinckleys, for instance? Coincidence? I think not! <tinfoil hat off>
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. It's a straight line of crookedness.
Bay of Pigs.

JFK Assassination.

Vietnam.

Heroin from SE Asia.

Watergate.

October Surprise.

Reagan shot and Neil's having dinner w/ Hinckley brother.

Iran-Contra.

S&L lootings.

Nugan Hand Bank.

BCCI.

Iraq-gate.

Whitewater Bushwa.

Monica Bushwa.

Selection 2000.

ENRON Energy policy.

Wall Street/Arthur Andersen rip-offs

9-11.

USA PATRIOT Act

(This is just off the top of my head. Please add to the crooked accounting.)
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lynndew2 Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Come on now. We know that all of that is due
To Bills Penis.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
39. Gerald Ford!
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 09:34 AM by peekaloo
Warren Commission/Congress to Vice President/President and lookee who is head of C.I.A. however briefly.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
125. I remember that President Carter re-opened the JFK investigation...
and that the investigation was abruptly shut down once Reagan took office...and we all know who really ran the White House at that time: Poppy!
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
62. I think you got all the big ones
But there are certain side connections which feed back into those big events in an interesting way. For example, both Baker and Botts and Akim, Gump have close ties with the Bushes and also with various Saudi and BCCI figures.

And there are also some curious matters having to do with Sidney A. Adger, a Houston business executive and close friend of George H.W. Bush who died in 1996. It was Adger who got the speaker of the Texas Legislature to go to the head of the Texas Air National Guard and get W. that pilot's slot during the Viewnam War.

Adger's son, John Adger, was the partner of Robert Corson, a Houston developer and reputed CIA operative involved in smuggling and money laundering. Corson died in 1992 of a supposed suicide after being charged for his part in the savings and loan debacle -- but it's also been claimed that he had turned government informant and was implicating people involved in Iran-Contra.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #62
113. ... and James R Bath brings us to bin Laden and 9-11.
From Pete Brewton's The Mafia, the CIA & George Bush:

EXCERPT...

One of Mischer's business partners, Jack Trotter, is listed as a reference on Bath's resume. A source close to Bath said that Trotter was one of the Houstonians most responsible for introducing Bath around Houston and getting him wired into the right business circles. Bath and Lan Bentsen brokered a number of multi-thousand-acre tracts to syndications formed by Trotter, who was trustee for Senator Lloyd Bentsen's blind trust.

Another reference on Bath's resume is Sidney A. Adger, the father of John Adger, Robert Corson's former partner, and of Stephen Adger, Kappa Sigma brother of Walt Mischer, Jr.

A small Houston accounting firm, Weatherford Kinton& Associates, which allegedly did work for a Mischer company, also did the accounting, according to White, for Bath's most interesting company, Skyways Aircraft Leasing. However, when Mischer was asked about Weatherford Kinton, which offices itself in the headquarters building of Mischer's umbrella corporation, he replied, "I don't know them."

Skyways Aircraft Leasing began on July 2, 1980, as a company callled Cotopax Investments, registered in the Cayman Islands. Then, 29 days later, Cotopax changed its name to Skyways Aircraft Leasing Limited. On July 24, 1980, the directors of Skyways Aircraft Leasing met in George Town, Grand Cayman Island. (Interestingly, the meeting was a week before the name change was registered with the Cayman Islands authorities.) The directors named Bath as president and director and then resigned. All of the stock was made into bearer stock, which meant that it belonged to whoever possessed it. In his sworn deposition in the lawsuit against White, Bath refused to name the owners of the Skyway's stock. (Documents filed in another lawsuit indicate that Sheikh Khalid owned Skyways. White said Skyways had at least one airplane, a Gulfstream, that was on a long-term lease to an Abu Dhabi oil company.)

CONTINUED...

http://www.webcom.com/~pinknoiz/covert/brewton.html
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #62
122. and Walter Mischer, a Texas power broker
financier who is closely linked with Poppy Bush and also to Carlos Marcello, a suspected hitman of JFK, and Marcello and the Carousel motel.....

In Brewton's "CIA, Mafia and George Bush".
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
71. Whoa Nellie - My mind reels at this list, octafish
dots connecting all over the frikking place. it's just too horrible.


"I think the American people--I hope the American--I don't think, let me--I hope the American people trust me."
- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2002
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
90. The heroin from SE Asia is interesting
Poppy was chief liasson to China in the early seventies when the dope started to flow to the US from China. In Jan. 1976 the first load from Bejing came to the US. This was the same month Poppy became head of the CIA and shortly after that Chilean Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffit were murdered in Dupont Circle.


http://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/092300a.html
By Robert Parry
In early fall of 1976, after a Chilean government assassin had killed a Chilean dissident and an American woman with a car bomb in Washington, D.C., George H.W. Bushs CIA leaked a false report clearing Chiles military dictatorship and pointing the FBI in the wrong direction.
The bogus CIA assessment, spread through Newsweek magazine and other U.S. media outlets, was planted despite CIAs now admitted awareness at the time that Chile was participating in Operation Condor, a cross-border campaign targeting political dissidents, and the CIAs own suspicions that the Chilean junta was behind the terrorist bombing in Washington. ..........



http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/100599b.html
.....That night, Sen. James Abourezk, a Letelier friend, found himself sitting near Bush at a state dinner at the Jordanian Embassy. Distraught about the murders, Abourezk asked the CIA director to commit the spy agency in the effort "to find the bastards who killed" Letelier. Bush vowed to help and added, obliquely, "we are not without assets in Chile.".........
One of the advocates for Pinochet's freedom has been George Bush, the former CIA director and later president. In his letter to the British government, Bush called the case against the former dictator "a travesty of justice" and urged that Pinochet be sent home to Chile "as soon as possible.".......
http://www.tni.org/letelier/tniips/bush.htm


Former President George Bush is acting strangely these days <1June1999>, as if he may have something to hide. On April 12 The London Times reported that Bush had written a letter supporting former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet, whom British authorities have detained since October while trying to decide whether to let a Spanish magistrate extradite and try him for crimes against humanity. The Times quoted Bush's letter to former British Chancellor Lord Lamont, calling the accusation against Pinochet a travesty against justice. Britain, Bush concluded, should allow Pinochet to return to Chile........

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Terrorism/GBush_CIA_S... .
Nothing the agency gave us helped us to break this case," said federal prosecutor Eugene Propper in a 1988 interview for the story I was drafting for Newsweek. The CIA never volunteered Ambassador Landau's cable about the suspicious DINA mission nor copies of the fake passports that included a photo of Townley, the chief assassin. Nor did Bush's CIA divulge its knowledge of the existence of Operation Condor. .......
As it turned out, the Bush campaign had little to fear from my discoveries. When I submitted my story draft with its exclusive account of Contreras's role as a CIA asset Newsweek's editors refused to run the story. Washington bureau chief Evan Thomas told me that Editor Maynard Parker even had accused me of being "out to get Bush."
Note: Parry was fired from Newspeak at Poppy's behest.


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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bay of Pigs was Poppy's project.
Bush Sr claims he was never in the CIA except when he was the Director in the 1970's.

Yeah right :eyes:

It's no secret that CIA operatives don't admit to being in the CIA. The Plame case is all about that. But old George can easily be placed at the CIA in the 1960's (as the J Edgar Hoover memo proves) but more specifically, Poppy can be connected to the Bay of Pigs operation, which (for those who may not know) was an attempted coup of the Castro regime in Cuba, supposedly carried out by Miami Cuban immigrants.

Three boats used in the Bay of Pigs operation were named the "Houston", the "Zapata" and the "Barbara".

George HW Bush's adopted hometown, his oil company, and his wife.

Some of the Cubans involved in the failed coup were seen in Dallas on that horrible day in 1963. And Poppy was in Texas too, though (unlike any other human being over the age of 5 at the time) he can't seem to recall where he was when the President was murdered.

Oddly enough, Dick Nixon was in Dallas that day too, speaking at a PepsiCo board meeting. Pepsi was one of the corporations pushing hardest for the invasion of Cuba, since the island was a source of cheap sugar under the Batista regime.

What a small world, huh??

(BTW, sorry for not including any links here, but this info can all easily be found with a Google search.)
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I think Dick Nixon owed his start in politics to Prescott Bush, too, IIRC.
It is a small world, isn't it?

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Small and very, very bad.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Yep, Tricky Dicky and the BCE go way way back....
Nixon helped some of Prescott's Nazi buddys get out of various legal entanglements in the late 40's, many of whom moved to the US and became (wait for it.....) Republicans!!

And Grandpa Prescott rewarded Dicky with the #2 slot on the 1952 GOP ticket behind his "golfing buddy" Ike Eisenhower.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
44. Yes, they go way back indeed
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Lee Harvey Oswald's last words by Mae Brussell
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Excellent summation.
Why would Kissinger and Ford appoint a guy whose only real experience, that was public, was heading the RNC and serving a term or two in Congress?

Gee. That turd Scarborough's practically done that. Plus, he's already had an innocent woman murdered in his office. He might be over-qualified.

It seems they would appoint spooks to boss the spooks. And once Bushler got in, oh boy, were they happy. Support when asking Congress for money for whatever was wanted. Support when keeping the secrets the House Select Committee on Assassinations. A perfect stooge.

Some pertinent and impertinent info:

http://www.lumpen.com/coup2k/coup2k-links.html

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nannah Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. great job of connecting the dots!
things only appear random when you haven't identified a pattern that connects apparently disconnected elements. and what are the odds that all roads would lead to bushwa by accident.

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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
34. Some responses to your comments....
--The Zapata Offshore Oil company was formed in 1953 and was a good cover for Poppy's CIA activities during that period of time;

--I strongly suspect that Poppy's real job during WWII was as an agent for the OSS. The OSS liked to parachute agents into the Pacific to rendezvous with a sub. The sub would then get close to shore in an operational area and off-load the agent. I've always felt that the "Poppy was shot down" story was a cover to explain the piece of film of Poppy boarding a sub. The OSS liked to recruit Yale grads with a background in sports as well as secret societies. Sounds like someone we know doesn't it?

--Nixon denied being in Dallas at least three separate times. Once he realized that someone had tracked his flight arrangements in and out of Dallas, he then tried to say that he had been in Dallas for a Pesico board meeting. There is no record of a Pepsico board meeting during the period in question.

--A lady by the name of Madeleine Brown wrote a book a few years ago entitled "Texas in the Morning" where she detailed her long love affair with LBJ. She wrote about a party at Clint Murchison's home on the evening of November 21, 1963. She states on page 166 that the following people, among others, attended the party: J. Edgar Hoover, John McCloy, Richard Nixon, George Brown, R. L. Thornton, and H. L. Hunt. Other folks have stated that a few former and current CIA personnel also attended along with a few members of the military. Toward the end of the evening LBJ arrived in a real foul mood, and all of the males immediately moved into a private meeting area behind closed doors. LBJ's remark to Brown later that night was as follows "After tomorrow those G..D... Kennedys will never embarrass me again--that's no threat--that's a promise."

--According to JFK's secretary, LBJ and JFK had argued violently the night of the 21st about seating assignments in the motorcade. LBJ wanted Gov. Connally (LBJ's friend and political ally) to sit with him in the VP's car and he wanted Sen. Yarborough to sit with JFK. The only concession he got from JFK was the placement of the cars in the motorcade...JFK's limo went first, followed by a Secret Service car, and then LBJ's car. Normally, both the President's limo and the VP's limo were placed one behind the other with Secret Service cars fore and aft. After LBJ left for the party at Murchison's, JFK asked his secretary to draw up a memo stating that LBJ was not going to be on the 1964 ticket.

--E. Howard Hunt's name pops up with too much regularity from the CIA operations in Central America, to the days of the Cuban Task Force, and onwards to Watergate. Frank Sturgis' name also surfaces during the same time period and events along with that of Bernard Barker.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
64. Yale, Skull and Bones, and the CIA
I'm not sure at this point where I got it, but I have a snippet of text in my files, saying:

Yale Professor of History, Gaddis Smith, said, "Yale has influenced the Central Intelligence Agency more than any other university, giving the CIA the atmosphere of a class reunion." And "Bonesman" have been foremost among the "spooks", virtually building the CIA into a "haunted house."

F. Trubee Davison (Skull and Bones '18), was Director of Personnel at the CIA in the early years.


I also find, among a list of Skull and Bones members, "Hugh Wilson, foreign service officer, Counsellor to Japan (1911- 1921), U.S. Minister to Switzerland (1924-1927), Assistant Secretary of State (1937-1938). Ambassador to Germany 1938), Special Assistant to the Secretary of State (1939-1941), Office of Strategic Services (1941-1945)."
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #64
120. And the hierarchy uses those below them, viz. Ferrie and Oswald
It's important to keep caring. Thanks for the heads-up, starroute! Here's something that may be of interest, a photo recording David Ferrie and LH Oswald.



EXCERPT...

6. The House Select Committee also developed information linking Banister employee Ferrie, Oswald and Clay Shaw. Credible eyewitness testimony places these individuals at a Clinton (Louisiana) voter registration drive in August of 1963. The chairman of the Clinton chapter of CORE , Corrie Collins, was monitoring the drive outside the Registrars office, when at approximately 10:00a.m. he noticed the arrival of the car. Thinking they might be FBI, Collins studied the car and its occupants closely. As the car came to a stop, he observed a young white male exit the rear of the car and enter the registration line, while the driver and the other passenger remained in the car. Later, under oath, at the trial of Clay Shaw in 1969 and in his testimony to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1978, Collins would identify the driver of the car as Clay Shaw, the passenger as David Ferrie, and the person in the registration line as Lee Harvey Oswald. (Ibid.; pp. 103-104.)

7. A mere four years later, Congress would conclude that was inclined to believe that Oswald was in Clinton La., in late August, early September 1963, and that he was in the company of David Ferrie, if not Clay Shaw. . . established an association of an undetermined nature between Ferrie, Shaw, and Oswald less than 3 months before the assassination. The committee added that they also found that there was at least a possibility that Oswald and Guy Banister were acquainted. They further concluded that the CIA-Mafia-Cuban plots had all the elements necessary for a successful assassination conspiracy. It is probably the ultimate irony that the U.S. governments conclusions echoed those of Jim Garrison a decade earlier. (Ibid.; p. 189.)

8. Banisters New Orleans office also served as the headquarters of the Anti-Communist League of the Caribbean, part of what would formally coalesce as the World Anti-Communist League in 1967. (For more on WACL, see also: RFA#s 14, 15, 18, 19, 21, 27, 29, 30, 36, 37.)

9. While investigating Eladio del Valle, Ferries associate in covert operations against Cuba, Garrisons investigating team was infiltrated by an anti-Castro Cuban with strong ties to the intelligence community. This operative, Bernardo de Torres, may well have been involved with the assassination itself. His name later cropped up in connection with the assassination of Orlando Letelier. (For more on the assassination of Letelier, see also: RFA#s 4, 19, 20, 22, 30, 37, as well as FTR#s 259, 268, 284.)

CONTINUED...

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f288.html
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knowledgeispower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
49. I just can't believe this
Three boats used in the Bay of Pigs operation were named the "Houston", the "Zapata" and the "Barbara".

No fuckin' way. It makes no sense. If Bush was behind the Bay of Pigs, why in God's name would he spell it out for anyone who wants to take a look? It is illogical.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Who would have cared, then?
In retrospect, it contradicts GHWB's assertion is was never CIA and puts him squarely in the middle of the Bay of Pig's scenario. His sharp shooting Cuban lieutenants (Rodriguez and Sturgis) also happened to be in Dallas that fateful day. Check out those pics of the guy standing in front of the Texas Book Depository....it sure looks like it could be a young George Bush. IIRC, Kennedy was starting to consider disbanding the CIA after the Bay of Pigs fiasco....
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
86. Felix Rodriquez/Max Gomez was in Dallas
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 03:42 PM by 9215
on Nov. 22,1963???

Man, I will polish and apple for you if you provide a link.


Kennedy said he would break the CIA into a "thousand pieces" after the Bay of Pigs treason.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #49
96. If you take a moment to look closely
They spell EVERYTHING OUT. The publish the plan (PNAC) and are so deep into denial about the humanity of those not within their elite circle, they DON'T CARE. Look at the monikers for policy, legislation, environment, weapons systems- they shove it in your faces DAILY and think you're to DUMB to get it. Give it a cute name. See if those "sub-humans" get it. :shrug:
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
58. Bay of Pigs also known as Operation Zapata
Google it.
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Don't forget the 18 missing minutes on the Nixon tape!!
What on earth could possibly be so horrible on that tape that 18 minutes of it had to be erased?

The Kennedy Assassination

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
41. It must have been "worth" resigning over.
Along with the Saturday Night Massacre, the 18-minute gap was one of the seminal moments in geting Dick out of the Oval Office. Aong with all the expletive deleteds and racist commentary, what could have been so damning that it was worth resigning in disgace? Their original Treason.

GOOGLE: Nixon + Bay of Pigs Thing + JFK + Texans and a treasure trove of links are revealed. Here's a juicy tidbit from the June 23 tape:

Nixon: He didn't know how it was going to be handled though, with Dahlberg and the Texans and so forth? Well who was the asshole that did? (Unintelligible) Is it Liddy? Is that the fellow? He must be a little nuts.

Haldeman: He is.

http://www.ku.edu/carrie/docs/texts/nixon061972.html
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
32. Sorry, this just sounds too far-fetched.
I haven't had a chance to read the information, yet, but my gut instinct tells me that focusing on what Bush the first may or may not have done during WWII and the Kennedy years isn't going to affect Bush the second. I believe that Prescott and Herbert Walker Bush may have had a business deal with the Nazis, but it's immaterial at this point.

Maybe after I investigate this story I will find it has some substance, but it, too, is immaterial because it focuses on the wrong president.

We have to focus on W's crimes, not those of his father.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Information about what happened in the past...
Sheds light on how this sort of criminal activity runs in the family.
Cracks made at a * family barbeque in '59 have a direct bearing on why we have what now squats in the WH.

11/22/63
11/7/00
9/11/01

Why do these three dates all have the same look and feel to them?
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
72. 11
eom
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. People have to understand what they're dealing with when discussing...
...the Bush family. They are utterly ruthless and will do anything for money and power. Knowing how this family operated in the past, and the people with whom they've done business, tells you a great deal about how they operate today.

Believe me, NONE of this information is "immaterial"
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
74. None of this information is immaterial
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 02:34 PM by seemslikeadream
History has recorded the horrors of ethnic cleaning, but until now, America's own efforts to create a master race have been largely overlooked. In War Against the Weak, investigative journalist and author of the New York Times bestseller IBM and the Holocaust Edwin Black reveals that eugenics-sham science made up to justify ethnic cleansing-had an incredible foothold in America in the early twentieth century, and was in fact championed and funded by America's social, political, and academic elite. Even more shocking, Black traces the flow of ideas, reesearch, and money from Cold Spring Harbor (Long Island)to Germany, in the process proving that it was America's eugenics program that gave Hitler the scientific justification to escalate his virulent anti-Semitism into all-out genocide.
Black's team of dozens of researchers scoured scores of archives in four countries, unearthing some 50,000 documents, which collectively prove that the eugenics agenda was funded by esteemed philanthropies such as the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Institution, taught at Yale, Harvard and Princeton, lauded by leading progressive thinkers such as Margaret Sanger, Oliver Wendell Holmes and Woodrow Wilson, and even sactioned by the U.S. Supreme Court. With this kind of backing, American eugenics was quickly able to move beyond the theoritical in its quest to eliminate social"undesirables," getting cruel and racist laws enacted in 27 U.S. states. Utimately, more than 60,000 Americans were sterilized against their will, and tens of thousnands of others were institutionalized and/or denied the right to marry whom they choose. In the last year or so, governors from five states- Virginia, Oregon, California, North Carolina, and South Carolina have apologized for their states offical effords to wipe out their unwanted citizens.
Surprisingly, the victims of eugenics weren't limited to the groups that have regularly suffered from prejudice in the U.S. they were also the poor, epileptics, alcoholics, people who wore glasses, petty criminals, the mentally ill, and those deemed "shiftless." War Against the Week details how those at the forefront of the movement worked tirelessly to establish the biological rationales for persecution, with the goa; of continuously eradicating the "lower tenth" until only pure Nordic super race remained. To achieve that end, eugenics contaminated many otherwise worthy causes, from the birth control movement to the development of psychology and IQ testing, and beyond.

After Nuremberg declared eugenics to be genocide and a crime against humanity the American eugenics movement did not disappear, it simply went underground, changed its name, and reappeared as "human gentics." War Against the Weak closes by bringing its analysis into the present day, pointing out that our increasing knowledge in the realm of gentics selection and gene-mapping is rife with opportunity for misuse. ---Mother Jones

We must learn our history
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #74
95. And then there's this
A central focus of the Harriman security regime in Washington (1950-53) was the organization of covert operations, and "psychological warfare." Harriman, together with his lawyers and business partners, Allen and John Foster Dulles, wanted the government's secret services to conduct extensive propaganda campaigns and mass-psychology experiments within the U.S.A., and paramilitary campaigns abroad. This would supposedly ensure a stable world-wide environment favorable to Anglo-American financial and political interests.

The Harriman security regime created the Psychological Strategy Board (PSB) in 1951. The man appointed director of the PSB, Gordon Gray, is familiar to the reader as the sponsor of the child sterilization experiments, carried out by the Harrimanite eugenics movement in North Carolina following World War II.

Gordon Gray was an avid Anglophile, whose father had gotten controlling ownership of the R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company through alliance with the British Imperial tobacco cartel's U.S. representatives, the Duke family of North Carolina. Gordon's brother, R.J. Reynolds chairman Bowman Gray Jr., was also a naval intelligence officer, known around Washington as the "founder of operational intelligence." Gordon Gray became a close friend and political ally of Prescott Bush; and Gray's son became for Prescott's son, George, his lawyer and the shield of his covert policy.



(From "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography." Quoted in many places online.)
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #95
118. This is what makes DU a great place for learning
Puting it together. Nice work.
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mbali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Agree
Whether it's true or not, this stuff has been floating around in the atmosphere for decades and just ain't got legs. People aren't going to buy into into it and continuing to push it will just make us look and sound like the "Clinton is a murdering, drug-pushing, rapist" accusations we've been hearing from the Arkansas crowd.

We need to stick to the current issues - which are more than enough to run this guy out of office - and not go off onto a futile effort to prove a Bush family connection to the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy assissination, Holocaust, etc. We won't get anywhere and just risk distracting attention from what we should be focusing on and looking like a bunch of conspiracy kooks.
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knowledgeispower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #37
50. I agree with you, BUT I would point out...
that the whole point of this thread, as far as I understand it, is that the CIA may now have cause to expose the BFEE for what they are. Coming from the CIA, it would be much more credible (and much better done) than from a bunch of left wing internet loons.

But I don't think the CIA will expose the BFEE. They'll just do what it takes to get Shrub out of office and leave it at that. In fact, I think the idea that the BFEE is merely trying to get rid of a liability (Shrub) is worth a second look.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #37
53. You've just used another method used to discourage finding the truth...
...and that's the old "conspiracy kook" routine.

It's funny how other countries have an excellent concept of conspiracies and how they really work, particularly in regards to assassinating heads of state. But Americans continue to believe that assassinations in our country are the work of "lone nut" gunmen. The propaganda boys have done their work very well.

Amazing.

What's even more amazing are the people that are slapped hard in the face with documented evidence and still choose to ignore it. The reason the stories about Clinton never "had legs" is because they were never based on anything remotely close to documented evidence. The Bush family is a different story, and despite what people like you have to say, the facts are there and well-documented.

The Nazi connections to the Bush family, and quite a few other wel-known American family names, are part of a much bigger picture that spans the last 60 years of U. S. history. Those connections have not only impacted our foreign policy over the years, they have actually formed the foundations of the current rightwing GOP organization.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
36. Hey!
http://www.lizmichael.com/bushykno.htm >The Bushy Knoll at lizmichael.com is taken verbatim from the JFK section of the Bush Body Count and credited to someone who contributed a page last year, a page I have since replaced, not because I didn't like it, it was a nice intro, but because I was adding a writers blog and wanted the list info to be mine.) The credit reads, "to David Blomstrom, who created a significant portion of the Bushy Knoll". David, if you're reading this, what's up with that? ;)

I guess imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but how about a link back, liz? ;) http://bushbodycount.com
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
38. Kick This Thread Forever n/t
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
40. Bigfoot had dinner with Bush, Oswald and Jack Ruby in October '63
And, of course, the corporate media has covered that up.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Didn't know that. But a BUSH was supposed to dine with a HINCKLEY
... on the same day Reagan was shot by a Hinckley. Then again, you probably knew that. If you didn't, here's a nice overview:

The Bush Crime Family: Three Generations of Treason

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lavello_041403_bus...

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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. Thanks! Excellent summary!
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
59. It's discouraging to think of how
willfully ignorant many liberals and leftists seem of the high crimes perpetrated against their greatest leaders. Reminds me of lobsters preferring to accomodate to the climate, rather than wondering why the water's boiling.

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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #59
76. Oh please
This conspiratorial nutball stuff shows up here at least once a week
and we read how famed investigators (professional nutcakes like
Fletcher Prouty or Michael Ruppert) have the truth about how
the Bush family actually killed :

JFK
RFK
MLK
Wellstone
JFK Jr.
John Heinz
Mel Carnahan
John Tower
Jimi Hendrix
Bob Marley

I'm not making the last two up that's actually been posted here.

There isn't a shred of real evidence to support any of these contentions, of course. Hell, one of the sites cited as "evidence"
in the original post implies that the Bushes whacked Barbara Olson
on 9/11.

This stuff is ridiculous and the only way to deal with it to laugh at it.

The BFEE has my strawberries.


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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #76
102. Why would the BCE kill Jimi Hendrix??
I guess I missed that one :shrug:
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #102
129. He was increasingly influential as an antiwar artist and a veteran
and he was sleeping with Euro-american women.

What more motivation did the BFEE need?

COINTELPRO had targeted him for "neutralization" as an antiwar activist and "dangerous" influence and...

REMEMBER what Hitler did to those artists and writers who oppoosed him.

Same routing, different day for the same crime family.
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
45. This information is not "secret" why hasn't the press picked it up before?
We all know the reasons which is why I don't see this going anywhere. It should, but it won't.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. This story, and others, will go places now...the goal is to remove...
...Dubya from power because the powers-that-be now believe him to be a liability.
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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
48. I just printed and read the geocities link. It is unbelievable!
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. Here is info on de Mohrenschildt
I've posted this before. Most of it taken from Richard Russell's "The Man Who Knew Too Much".

Did Poppy Bush know Lee Harvey Oswald?


By the early autumn of 1962, Lee and Marina Oswald's relationship was already devolving into constant bickering. Thirteen days before Nagell's arrival in Dallas from Mexico to make some inquiries about him, on Oct. 10 Oswald had suddenly left his job at a Fort Worth metal factory, bid a temporary farewell to his family, and traveled alone the thirty miles to Dallas. Staying for a few days at a YMCA, opened his first of several post office boxes, Box 2915. On October 12 he suddenly found new employment with the Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall (JCS) photo-lithography firm for $1.35/hour. ...

JCS was an interesting place for a 'redefector' from the USSR to find a job. One of the company's contracts was doing classified work for the U.S. Army Map Service. In this context, employees set type for place names on maps of Cuba. Just days after Oswald arrived JCS, pictures taken by an American U2 spy plane would confirm the existence of Soviet missile launching pads.....

....Hundreds of dollars worth of photographic equipment were discovered by the Dallas police in Oswald's apartment ....

Oswald himself was never known to have been fond of taking long cross-country camera hikes in foreign lands. But someone else was. This was a well-connected Russian e'migre' some thirty years Oswald's senior,....Both the wife and daughter would tell the Warren Commission that it was he who had arranged for Oswald's employment at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall. Not the Texas Employment Commission, as official records would have us believe.....

George Sergei de Mohrenschildt is another of those remarkablely enigmatic characters whom we find permeating the assassination's landscape. He was born in Czarist Russia in 1911, his father a "marshal of nobility" who served as director of Nobel oil interests--hence his own title of "baron." He was a world traveler who spoke six languages and boasted membership in both the exclusive Dallas Petroleum Club and the World Affairs Council....

..."He was traveling extensively ..." one of his friends Mrs. Igor Voshinin, would tell the Warren Commission.
The commission took notice that de Mohrenschildt was acquainted with several powerful people in Houston.....Lyndon Johnson: oil millionaire John Mecom...Another friend of de Mohrenschildt was Jean De Menil of Schlumberger Wells Services Company, who in 1961 permitted his New Orleans branch to be used as an ammunition conduit for the CIA.

The baron's affinity for people in high places even extended as far as LBJ and another future American president, George Bush....

De Mohrenschildt's personal telephone book, discovered after his alleged suicide in 1977, contained this entry: "Bush, George. H. W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland." (Footnote: "Bush name in de Mohrenschildt notebook: Mark Lane, Plausible Denial p. 332. Lane also notes odd similarities among Bush's Zapata Offshore oil company, the "Operation Zapata" code name given to the Bay of Pigs invasion, and the names of the invasions ships "Barbara" (Bush's wife's name) and "Houston" (Bush's business abode).

....deMohrenschildt later told his wife Jeanne, he was "playing a double game". (pp.273)

...In the summer of 1962, de Mohrenschildt maintained that an associate of J. Walton Moore provided him Oswald's address in Fort Worth, suggesting he might want to meet him. De Mohrenschildt called Moore, noting that in exchange for his services with Oswald, the State Department might assist him with an oil exploration deal he was trying to make in Haiti. (pp.274)

...As de Mohrenschildt eventually wrote in a manuscript about Oswald (reprinted in entirety by the House Assassinations Committee in 1979), his wife, Jeanne, particularly hit it off with the returning defector....(pp.275)

When I told de Mohrenschildt I was a writer, his response was quick. "And I'll bet you want to talk about Lee Harvy Oswald."..."It is all in the Warren Commission. All this new talk is so much lies and bullshit. Nothing will ever be solved, unless somebody comes up with a confession."

"Whatever you write ," he said abruptly, "Lee Harvey Oswald was smart as hell. They make a moron out of him."..."Lee was the most honest many I knew. He was--what?"--deMohrenschildt raised his hand dramatically--"he was ahead of his time really, a kind of hippie of those days....I'll tell you this he did not shoot the President". ..."You hear the way I speak English. I've been here thirty-five years and still I have a foreign accent. And Lee hardly had a foreign accent in Russian, a much more difficult language than English. (pp.278)

I explained I had heard a rumor about twelve hours of taped interviews that George (de Mohrenschidlt) was suppose to have given a Dutch journalist friend named Willem Oltmans.....Jeanne was adamant that she didn't want them out....they decided to write their journalist friend and tell them not to release them under any circumstances.... .

In 1974 de Mohrenschidlt had written the journalist a letter that said in part: "In case of my removal from the scene--by assassination or otherwise--you will be able to sell the tapes.....According to Oltmans, in 1975 the finished film would mysteriously disappear from the Dutch Broadcasting Corporation's archives..... (279)

A few days after de Mohrenschildt's death, Oltmans told newsmen in Washington that de Mohrenschildt had revealed to him: (1) Cubans "who thought that President Kennedy had betrayed them at the Bay of Pigs" had fired at the same time as Oswald and (2) deMohrenschildt had served as a middleman between Oswald and Dallas's wealthy H.L. Hunt oil family . " Mr. deMohrenschildt indicated to me very strongly that his ties upward were toward H. L. Hunt and dowstairs to Lee Harvey Oswald." (pp281)

"Billionaire Texas oilman H.L. Hunt, said by ex-employees to have purchased first copy of the Zapruder film and ordered a check on security surrounding Oswald in custody..... (pp.410)


...via the Oltman's account, de Mohrenschidlt was murdered by two men. They first offered him safe passage to Mexico, and they also asked him to sign a false document draw on up by the CIA. ...these experts know only too well how to make it look like a suicide." pp.282


After I alerted Nagell to the impending publication of Morrow's book, in mid-May of 1976 he sent a certified letter to then CIA director George Bush. Nagell wrote: "I am now advised by a 'most reliable source' that while Mr. Morrow claims to have received much of his information about me from people in the Cuban exile community, a substantial portion of his account actually is based on an unsupported allegations furnished to him by a CIA official who retired in 1974. (pp.409)

Five hours after the assassination, Ily Mamantov, who had never seen Oswald, received a phone call from Jack Crichton asking him to serve as interpreter for the interrogation of Marina. Crichton was in 1963 the president of Nafco Oil & Gas, Inc., and a former head of Military Intelligence. According to information uncovered by the Garrison investigations, Crichton had been among a small group of Army Intelligence officials who met with H.L. Hunt soon after the assassination.


.....George de Mohrenschildt, in his Warren Commission testimony, would describe Mamantov as the one "excessive rightist" of the Dallas's Russian e'migre' community.
Interestingly Mrs. Igor Voshinin told me in 1992 that Mamantov "knew George Bush very well". Bush was president of Zapata Oil in Houston in 1963. "Mamantov died recently," said Voshinin, "but he told me that he had received a very charming letter from President Bush. I remember one line: 'You and I did it'." (She could not recall the context.) pp680

.....After the Watergate break-in where several ex -CIA men and Cuban exiles were caught in 1972, Richard Nixon expressed worry on the White House tape-recording system that this might open up "the whole Bay of Pigs thing." Nixon's chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman later wrote of his belief that the president was really talking about the Kennedy assassination.

George Bush, a Texas oilman in 1963, is also found on the periphery of the assassination. As noted earlier in this book, his name appeared in George de Mohrenschildt's personal notebook and
bush was a friend of Marina Oswald's translator, Ilya Mamantov. When George Bush became CIA director (1976-78), Nagell is on record as having written to him about Robert Morrow's book "Betrayal"

The White House has denied that the president was the "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" idntified in a Novermber 1963, FBI memorandum as having been briefed by the FBI on the reacton of Miam's Cuban exiles. But ther is no denying the existence of another recently released FBI memo, which begins:

"On Novermber 22, 1963, Mr. George H.W. Bush, 5525 Briar, Houston, Texas, telephonically advised tha he wanted to relate some hearsay that he had heard in recent week, date and source unknown. He advised that on James Parrott had been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston."

An FBI investigation into Bush's charge failed to turn up any connection whatsoever tying James Parrott to the assassination. Parrott was then an active member of Houston's Young Republicans, who had been involved in picketing members of the Kennedy administration. Bush was then serving as campaign manager for future Republican senator John Tower. Since Parrott's group had come out strongly against a then nascent alliance between Texas Republicans and representatives of the petroleum industry, Bush and Parrott were political enemies..... (pp. 709-10)





KGB file on Oswald: http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0824/p11s1-cods.html


Halliburton link to Permindex and "Operation Zapata". http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/coverups/bronfman...

Hale Boggs
He sat on the Warren Commission, which concluded that President Kennedy was slain by a lone assassin. Later, in 1971 and '72, Boggs said that the Warren Report was false and that J. Edgar Hoover's FBI not only helped cover up the JFK murder but blackmailed Congress with massive wire-tapping and spying. He named Warren Commission staff member Arlen Specter as a major cover-up artist. Congressman Boggs' plane disappeared on a flight to Alaska in 1972. The press, the military, and the CIA publicly proclaimed the plane could not be located. Investigators later said that was a lie, that the plane had been found. On the plane were Nick Begich, a very popular Democratic Congressman, and Don Jonz, an aide to Mr. Boggs. All were killed.
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. That is too difficult to read....
I can't make much of it. I don't expect the average person would be able to either.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #68
89. Thanks for the feed back
I've been researching this stuff for years off and on.

Please feel free to ask questions about the confusing parts. I'd really like to make it as clear as possible. :)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #68
121. This photo says it all. LBJ's car had Secret Service protection...
... JFK's car had NONE. Then the bullets rained down.



JFK is in the open car, the one without ANY Secret Service men riding along side to shield the President. LBJ, OTOH, had at least four, and perhaps as many as six, SS agents literally surroundng him. All but one (not in picture) police motorcycle riders are alongside LBJ's car, as well. Notice the background. That is the famous Grassy Knoll. About a half second after this picture is taken, JFK is dead.

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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. That's not LBJ's Car
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 11:16 PM by maine_raptor
It the SS detail's car. Clint Hill is the SS agent standing front left on the side rail. He jumps off the car, runs forward and leaps into JFK's limo (just ahead in this photo), and helps Jackie back into the passenger compartment (she's trying catch a section of JFK's skull that was blown off by the 2 fatal head shots) as the limo speeds up.

This phot was taken by Frank Willis, a retired USAF Col. He testified befor the Warren Commission that the sound of the first shot caused him to press the shutter button. This is abount 5.6 seconds prior to the fatal head shots.


And I noticed in the main post (3 or 4 above, the big one LOL) the statement that H.L. Hunt bought the first copy of Zapruder film. This is not true. The Secret Service had 2 copies made of the negative. One went back to Abraham Zapruder, the other was flown to Washington DC that night, where it was analysed by the NRO.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. I stand corrected. Do you have a picture of LBJ's car?
LBJ's car in the motorcade, I remember, did have Secret Service agents protecting the veep. Like you said, the follow-up car had ONE agent jump up and try to protect the President. I remember reading the driver actually slowed down and stopped the car during the shooting (5.6 sec. later) because he thought the bullets were coming from the front. Please chip in what you know, maine_raptor. I want the truth, even if it shows I'm wrong.



JFK's car in the motorcade.

There is a noticable difference. Here's more from JFK Lancer:

http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html

And a short Quicktime movie showing an agent getting "ordered" off JFK's limousine. No kidding.

http://www.jfklancer.com/SSoffcar.html
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
63. Could the Kennedy's file a civil suit against
the Bushies like Nicole Brown's family did against OJ?

Wouldn't that get this info out into the public!
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #63
78. So your contention is that the Kennedy family
knows that Bush killed JFK but has done nothing about it
for whatever reason. And Ted is accepting an award from Bush I
at Texas A&M next week.

Planet Earth calling.



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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. Hee, Hee, Hee
How can they "do" anything about it.... they dies to fast?

The Texas A&M manuever was another audacious, cruel Bush tactic. Can you imagine the pain Ted Kennedy feels if he revisits Texas and remembers? The fear and anguish his loved ones have not knowing when/if Ted will be next. His every walking day, and waking moment leaves him wondering if he will be next. Put yourself in his shoes and imagine.

Hang around birdman, I likes talking to ya'.
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #82
105. So Bush is giving Ted the award to make him relive Dallas
and remind him of how Bush killed his brother.

Stop it you're making my sides hurt.


Here's your award, Ted, it's a bowl of strawberries.





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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #105
115. Do you have an alternative theory?
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #115
133. Here's one
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #133
135. I ask for a theory and I get
Edited on Sun Oct-19-03 10:46 AM by 9215
gossip from a columnist without a clue.

Idiotic, Geyer purports to know that Poppy and Son are at odds with each other over Iraq. She doesn't say they MAY BE at odds, or APPEAR to be at odds she says they ARE at odds. She doesn't even consider the possibility that this father--son disagreement is just a stage act for public consumption, doesn't even consider it.

Do you really think that the Bushies respect and admire Kennedy? Remember, somebody said to JFK shortly before his brains were blown out: "Dallas loves you".

The Bushistas call no quarter for their arch nemesises, they are fascists to the core and anybody that takes an act by them like this ostensible fig leaf they offer Kennedy at face value is a fool.

Kennedy calls Bush a fraud and they offer him an award, ha! If I was Kennedy I'd refuse the award and return the "favor" with a civil suit for the murder of his brother (s?).
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. Any civil suit would be laughed out of court
For a lawsuit you have to something called evidence and
there isn't any.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #136
137. Like the 9-11 suit?
As for evidence linking Dallas to the BFEE, there's not much, but there is some. For instance there is what Nixon said on the tapes about "The Bay of Pigs Thing," which Haldeman said was his code for the JFK assassination, and the role played by "The Texans," Robert Mosbacher, James Baker, and George Bush, who Nixon once said "would do anything for our cause."

http://www.watergate.info/tapes/72-06-23_smoking-gun.sh...

Some additional links with evidence of Nixon/Bush connections:

http://dirtypolitics.50megs.com/dirty.htm

http://pw1.netcom.com/~fubar4/jfk4.html
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #137
138. or the MLK Jr civil suit?
A jury in 1999 found that King's assassination was the result of a conspiracy involving agencies of the federal government. That ought to have been "the trial of the century." Where was the media? How many Americans know that a jury found their government implicated in King's murder?
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #137
139. Your articles don't even mention Bush
Of course Bush had ties to Nixon. Bush was head of the
RNC when Nixon was President but that in no way indicates that
he had any involvement at all with the JFK asssasination.

This is the wackiest of conspiracy theories and there isn't
a shred of evidence to support it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #139
140. Here ya go. Sorry if it seems like a wacky conspiracy theory to you...
... that alone is my fault. If I had time, I'd present it in a more, um, academic fashion for you.

Paul Kangas does a better job than I:

The Kennedy-Nixon-Bush Connection

EXCERPT...

ost of the CIA leadership around the invasion of Cuba seems to have been people from Texas. A whole Texan branch of the CIA is based in the oil business. If we trace Bush's background in the Texas oil business we discover his two partners in the oil-barge leasing business: Texan Robert Mosbacher and Texan James Baker. Mosbacher is now Secretary of Commerce and Baker is Secretary of State, the same job Dulles held when JFK was killed. (Source: Common Cause magazine, 3-4/90).

On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book The Ends of Power, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs."

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

CONTINUED...

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/dead_kennedys/161963...
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #63
101. re: the Kennedy's response to Dallas
Peter Lawford said that "shortly after JFK's funeral the family got together, and Bobby told them it was a high-level military/CIA plot and that he felt powerless to do anything about it... The family always felt that JFK's refusal to commit to Vietnam was one of the reasons for the assassination... The kids were all told the truth as they grew up but it was Teddy who insisted that the family put the thing to rest."
The Assassinations, pg 372
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. Let's see now
Bobby felt powerless ? He was the attorney-general. Hello.

Refusal to commit to Vietnam ? He had the government overthrown
because Diem wasn't fighting the war to his satisfaction.

The family all knew the CIA whacked JFK but they all decided to let it slide.


Sheesh.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. What could Bobby do under the circumstances?
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 08:06 PM by Octafish
You always say the nicest things. Yet you are still wrong when it comes to the JFK assassination.

On behalf of Lyndon Johnson, J Edgar Hoover did all he could to impede the investigation of the assassination. Figure in the Warren Commission and the input from ex-CIA head Dulles and FBI stooge Ford, and it would seem the AG wasn't in command of the entire DoJ investigation anymore, was he?

http://www.sumeria.net/politics/Jfk-0001.html

http://www.ctrl.org/essay1/ESB7.html

Read NSAM 263, where JFK ORDERED the withdrawal of all US armed forces from Vietnam after 1964. Days after the assassination, LBJ signed NSAM 273 where he committed the United States to provide whatever level of support was needed to preserve the government of South Vietnam. Big difference, there. That must be why E Howard Hunt testified under oath he PLANTED forged state department documents in the White House safe implicating JFK in the Diem assassination.

http://hnn.us/articles/1553.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/waterga...


A heartbroken RFK did all he could to keep his family together in the monts after the assassination. One 1968 campaign aid said RFK told him he needed to become President to discover the truth about what happened to his brother. A few days later, RFK was dead.

Question for you: If you think the subject of the JFK assassination is so unproductive, why do you always show up to post and denigrate anyone who wants to learn about it?

EDIT: Dropped snippy tone. Added some links.
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #109
132. NSAM 263
OCTOBER 11,1963

NATIONAL SECURITY ACTION MEMORANDUM NO. 263

TO:

Secretary of State

Secretary of Defense

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff



SUBJECT: South Vietnam



At a meeting on October 5, 1963, the President considered the recommendations contained in the report of Secretary McNamara and General Taylor on their mission to South Vietnam.

The President approved the military recommendations contained in Section I B (1-3) of the report, but directed that no formal announcement be made of the implementation of plans to withdraw 1,000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963.

After discussion of the remaining recommendations of the report, the President approved the instruction to Ambassador Lodge which is set forth in State Department telegram No. 534 to Saigon.

McGeorge Bundy

***************************************
This is hardly the earth-shaking document that the "Kennedy was a peacenik" crowd have made it out to be. It isn't even signed by Kennedy but by Best and Brightest Vietnam hawk McGeorge Bundy and does not advocate a withdrawal from Vietnam at all. The report from Vietnam by Taylor and McNamara in fact does not recommend a withdrawal at all but concludes that if everything went well troops could
leave Vietnam by the end of 1965 (another in a long line of "light at the end of the tunnel" scenarios).

Kennedy was a Cold War warrior. His entire career is consistent on that issue. The idea that he was on the verge of leaving Vietnam and was killed by rogue government elements angered by his peace policies was invented long after the fact by conspiracy theorists.

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #132
134. If NSAM 263 is insignificant,
what accounts for Johnston's reversal with NSAM 273 immediately after Dallas?

Daniel Ellsberg heard from his Pentagon boss John McNaughton of a Kennedy-McNamara plan to get out of Vietnam after the 1964 election. McNaughton said the two had an understanding to get out of Vietnam in 1965 regardless of how the war was going. And lots of Kennedy intimates say the same.

Have you read Deep Politics and the Death of JFK by Peter Dale Scott? Or is that too :tinfoilhat: for you?
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #104
114. You really don't understand do you.
The Octopus can take down any single person. They just killed his brother, the President of the United States, they certainly weren't going to stop after that. You have no idea of the awesome power of the CIA at that time, or you are just trying to derail intelligent discourse on the topic with these inane comments.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
65. KICK. No end to bad news about Bush family history and US history.
Make it finally stop in '04.
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corarose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. JFK is dead Bush isn't but it could effect Arnold
He is married to a Kennedy.

I can't wait for the Bush Crime Dynasty to be taken down.

TWO WORDS THAT DESCRIBES THE BUSH CRIME FAMILY.

WHITE TRASH!
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HalfManHalfBiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
67. Kennedy Assassination Dorks
Apparently are still around.

Rent the movie "Slacker" (not "Slackers"). Great flick with a very funny JFK Dork scene.

"Every action is a positive action, even if it has a negative result."
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. So which "Half" is speaking now?
duh doggy biscuit, or duh man part? hee, hee, hee.
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Good stuff on de Mohrenschidlt, 9215
Such an important figure in the assassination, and yet most people have never heard of him.

And, yes, the quote I wrote from "Manchurian Candidate" was from the film. And Lawrence Harvey's delivery of it in his pretentious British accent makes it sublime! This film ranks right up there with "Dr. Strangelove" - both should be put in time capsules as being most representative of the paranoia and fascism in America during the Cold War.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #73
85. That is amazing
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 03:33 PM by 9215
Like Nagell, the Baron, was very important. Jim Garrison, the main character in Stone's movie "JFK" said that Nagell was the single most important material witness in the JFK assasination. Ain't it odd that he isn't mentioned in the movie? :wtf:...OVER.
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KFC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
79. Your Spock ears are on too tight
I think that Kennedy prefered the tight gold unis. Do not be duped by the facist mainstream media.

Keep the phaser on stun!
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HalfManHalfBiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. STOP THAT!
We are trying to have a serious discussion.

JFK obviously preferred the maroon uniforms - they were much tighter and displayed his package well.

JFK had a monster package compared to that commie Oswald.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #79
108. Mr. KFC Your AgoniZer, please!
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 07:25 PM by Octafish


Don't make me order you to the Agony Booth.

EDIT: nicer picture n typo.
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KFC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. I GIVE UP!
I prefer the Pleasurizer. Although I can go lefty in a pinch.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
84. We have friends in the press?(nt)
.
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
88. Was George Herbert Walker Bush a NOC?
Like Valerie Plame? Was he was set up in a business (Zapata)by the Company similar to Plame's situation? Many have speculated that this is the case. That Zapata although doing some actual dealings in oil, was a money-laundering operation.

Poppy always denied he was an agent, but this would be expected if he was as deep cover as a NOC and many have stated that there is no way anyone would be put at the head of CIA unless they had worked for the agency in some capacity or another. If he had worked as an analyst, he probably wouldn't deny that, but his denial of ever having worked for the CIA makes me convinced that his status, considering his situation when he moved to Midland, was just that - a NOC.

Perhaps this is why he spoke so vehemently against anyone outing an agent.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #88
103. Zapata was set up as a cover.
...for smuggling drugs via the offshore drilling operations, the proceeds from the drug sales going to fund black ops. Similar to the way the Contras were funded in the 80's through cocaine sales. (three guesses who set that up)
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Character Assassin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
91. Rense.com = TILT!
Game over.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. How profound.
While Rense posts whacko stuff, it also posts legitimate information. Some DUers get their articles posted there, as well.

BTW: Did you bother to go to the Rense.com? If you had, you'd have seen that's where the original article from the New Hampshire Gazette can be read.

Thanks for playing. Thanks more for contributing.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. Rense simply had the New Hampshire Gazette article
online before the New Hampshire Gazette did. But it's up there now:

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_acti...
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
94. ....and
Edited on Sat Oct-18-03 05:08 PM by number6
:smoke:

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?ChannelID=3...

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s, personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion of democratic principle and German law

snip

other articles at that site...

Bush Family Business: The Clear Channel Connection by AL MARTIN
Lying Pays Off: Neo-Cons Learn from Nazi Leaders by WAYNE MADSEN
Grassroots 'Impeach Bush' Movement Grows Quickly by RAMSAY CLARK (VOTETOIMPEACH.ORG)
Mr. Bush, You Are A Liar by WILLIAM RIVERS PITT (TRUTHOUT.ORG)
Unindicted CIA Criminal - Judge Stanley Sporkin by CONSPIRACY

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?ChannelID=9...

If I were a dick - tater ....

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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
110. kick
eom
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Kucinich04 Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
127. I Think "Dude Where's My Country" will be Bush's downfall..
Sorry if I end up threadjacking here, or if this has been covered already ad-nauseum. You see, I can't start a thread at this time, and I just HAVE TO TELL THIS TO EVERYONE! "Dude Where's My Country" absolutely ROCKS ASS!

Everybody needs to seriously buy and distribute this book! You are going to want to get a copy for everyone you know. Or at least the people who you've been arguing with over the past two years about what a freaking EVIL-doer this pRetzeldent really is.

Moore absolutely burns the Osama Did It WH BS story to the GROUND in this book. I say if we can really create a buzz and shoot this book to #1, it truly could be the man's downfall.

This is a MAINSTREAM publication, and you know A LOT of people could end up reading this if we can create a buzz about the book. And NO I am not MM, nor related in any way :) To tell the truth, I think if Moore manages to not get knocked off by the BFEE after this stunning expose, I am sure going to feel alot safer for myself. Cause this book is gonna PISS THEM OFF. Major league. Big time.

Savage, Hannity and O'Reilly have got to be just FOAMING at the mouth over this book. Imagine what will happen when one of them gets the balls up to put Moore on his show to discuss this book?!? Man, I would buy pay per view to see Moore and Savage go at it.

It kinda seems as though with the left's release of SO many blockbusters just blowing the wingnuts OUT OF THE WATER - Franken, Krugman, and this book, we are engaging in our own version Shock and Awe. I think it spells the END of bush's defacto control over the media in this country. The stories are too juicy to pass up, and people who read this are gonna start ASKING QUESTIONS that the media could provide 'answer$' to. I believe that the whores simply cannot ignore this book if it really starts to sell. In other words: bushco are SHITTING over this book. They simply HAVE to be.

BTW, the first chapter "7 Questions for Bush" is all I've actually read so far. But it is seriously worth the price of the entire book. Man, it is not only a TOUR De FORCE of persuasive bush butt kicking, but is footnoted brilliantly - there are almost no "lefty-propaganda" sites used - the consumers of primarily mainstream (i.e. "Disconnect the Dots, Inc") media are going to be absolutely BLOWN AWAY by this chapter, and I honestly think that if ENOUGH Americans read it, it could spell the end of the political careers of Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney (at the very least).

NICE WORK MICHAEL. YOU HAVE GIVEN ME HOPE FOR OUR SIDE IN 2004!!!

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Kucinich04 Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
128. I Think "Dude Where's My Country" will be Bush's downfall..
Sorry if I end up threadjacking here, or if this has been covered already ad-nauseum. You see, I can't start a thread at this time, and I just HAVE TO TELL THIS TO EVERYONE! "Dude Where's My Country" absolutely ROCKS ASS!

Everybody needs to seriously buy and distribute this book! You are going to want to get a copy for everyone you know. Or at least the people who you've been arguing with over the past two years about what a freaking EVIL-doer this pRetzeldent really is.

Moore absolutely burns the Osama Did It WH BS story to the GROUND in this book. I say if we can really create a buzz and shoot this book to #1, it truly could be the man's downfall.

This is a MAINSTREAM publication, and you know A LOT of people could end up reading this if we can create a buzz about the book. And NO I am not MM, nor related in any way :) To tell the truth, I think if Moore manages to not get knocked off by the BFEE after this stunning expose, I am sure going to feel alot safer for myself. Cause this book is gonna PISS THEM OFF. Major league. Big time.

Savage, Hannity and O'Reilly have got to be just FOAMING at the mouth over this book. Imagine what will happen when one of them gets the balls up to put Moore on his show to discuss this book?!? Man, I would buy pay per view to see Moore and Savage go at it.

It kinda seems as though with the left's release of SO many blockbusters just blowing the wingnuts OUT OF THE WATER - Franken, Krugman, and this book, we are engaging in our own version Shock and Awe. I think it spells the END of bush's defacto control over the media in this country. The stories are too juicy to pass up, and people who read this are gonna start ASKING QUESTIONS that the media could provide 'answer$' to. I believe that the whores simply cannot ignore this book if it really starts to sell. In other words: bushco are SHITTING over this book. They simply HAVE to be.

BTW, the first chapter "7 Questions for Bush" is all I've actually read so far. But it is seriously worth the price of the entire book. Man, it is not only a TOUR De FORCE of persuasive bush butt kicking, but is footnoted brilliantly - there are almost no "lefty-propaganda" sites used - the consumers of primarily mainstream (i.e. "Disconnect the Dots, Inc") media are going to be absolutely BLOWN AWAY by this chapter, and I honestly think that if ENOUGH Americans read it, it could spell the end of the political careers of Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney (at the very least).

NICE WORK MICHAEL. YOU HAVE GIVEN ME HOPE FOR OUR SIDE IN 2004!!!

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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
130. Do you know that
To most of America, this seems like extremist, wacko, psychotic conspiracy theory bullshit?

I'm not saying that is what I think it is.
I am just saying that, until the media starts discussing this (which they won't, because without sufficient evidence they won't bother showing it) and stops discussing dumb stories like the Kobe Bryant and Scott Peterson trials all the time, then the public will never know.

Besides, even if you mention any of this to people, they won't be smart enough to make the connection.

Take PNAC...

Some people, when they see it, think its a good idea.
They can't connect the dots.
They totally miss the part about imperialism.
The miss the part about wars and controlling assets in the Middle East.
They can't realize that attacking Afganistan was crucial to the PNAC objectives.
They won't understand that the attack on Afganistan was planned out in the summer of 2001.
They never consider how the events of 9/11 helped put the PNAC goals in motion.


People cannot, and will not, connect dots or attempt critical thinking on their own.

Not when TV can do it for them...
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EV1Ltimm Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-03 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
131. you honestly think we'll see any of that in the report?
It'll probably be in there, just covered in several lines of permanent marker and photo-copied.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
141. That's why Bush is giving Ted Kennedy that award. To make it seem more
improbable that such a "nice guy" like Bush would have killed the man's brother. Longtime BFEE watchers know that is EXACTLY how Bushes work.
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