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The OCTOPUS in Dallas: Poppy involved in JFK Assassination

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:19 PM
Original message
The OCTOPUS in Dallas: Poppy involved in JFK Assassination
Poppy Bush is one scary fellah. The record, as revealed by FBI documents in the National Archives show:



George Herbert Walker Bush played some role in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The FBI says George H.W. Bush was in Dallas that terrible day.

Old Octafish hasnt lost his marbles or downloaded something from Karl Roves Office of Disinformation. What I write is what the official government record shows.

FBI memos from within MINUTES of the assassination chronicle what George H.W. Bush, President of Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company called the FBI to report hearsay that someone wanted to kill President Kennedy.

The problem: Bush reported his suspicions just minutes after JFK was dead. If he cared to stop the assassination, Bush would have reported the threat immediately. Why didnt Bush say something sooner?







In the following FBI memo, by J Edgar Hoover and from a week after the assassination, states a Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency reports that the anti-Castro (and largely anti-JFK) Cuban exile community in Miami said the assassination represents a great loss to the US and Latin America. The pro-Castro community, Bush apparently, says they regret the assassination.







The information above connects George CIA Bush with the assassination. For those interested in preserving democracy in the American republic, this shadow of the Bush Octopus over the United States goes a long way toward explaining whats gone wrong in America since November 22, 1963.

Theres no indication of whether Poppy was there to supervise the triggermen, watch what happened or what. He's never explained these memos. He's never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed.

Perhaps its about time someone asked him to explain. Especially seeing how his dim son is engaged in an transnational campaign of mass murder and destroying the planet, it's vitally important that George H.W. Bush tell the Truth.

Why does any of this matter? The United States and the world haven't been the same since that terrible day in Dallas. Not one major player among the nation's mass media have thought to question the Warren Commission and the official story. The nations media also have ignored the few political leaders who have stepped up and demanded a real investigation. So, it's up to us.




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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Timing of Poppy's call is interesting. He called the FBI an hour and
fifteen minutes after the assassination from Tyler, Texas, which is about 70 miles east on Rt. 20 from Dallas. Could just be a mere coincidence, but if someone were looking to establish a weak alibi, this might be it.

Has Bush ever explained what he was doing in Tyler, and why he waited 75 minutes to ring up the FBI with what he knew?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. From what's known: Bush has never admitted publicly where he was.
Several DUers have reported Bush stated he can't recall where he was that day. These FBI memos put the lie to that one.

The first memo also seems to show that Bush had heard the threat some time before the assassination, location and time unknown.

The fact Bush waited is most suspicious. Why wouldn't he call the FBI the moment he heard there was a threat?
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Pool Hall Ace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. He can't recall where he was ??
I was just under 2 years old when JFK was assassinated, but I can't imagine anyone who was old enough to remember not being able to recall where they were then they heard about it.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #32
73. Exactly! Good Point, Poll Hall Ace!
All of us that were past toddler-age "remember" where we were when JFK was assassinated. It was all the news.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
95. I was in Europe, trying to find a TV--I remember it clearly n/t
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Especially since it was on the news by then. Was this an attempt to
deflect suspicion away from the "actual killer(s)", whom ever they were?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. More on Parrott from Tarpley and Chaitkin...




George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography

by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin

CHAPTER VIII-b - THE BAY OF PIGS AND THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION

"...JM/WAVE ...proliferated across in preparation for the Bay of Pigs invasion. A subculture of fronts, proprietaries, suppliers, transfer agents, conduits, dummy corporations, blind drops, detective agencies, law firms, electronic firms, shopping centers, airlines, radio stations, the mob and the church and the banks: a false and secret nervous system twitching to stimuli supplied by the cortex in Clandestine Services in Langley. After defeat on the beach in Cuba, JM/WAVE became a continuing and extended Miami Station, CIA's largest in the continental United States. A large sign in front of the <...> building complex reads: US GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS PROHIBIT DISCUSSION OF THIS ORGANIZATION OR FACILITY.

Donald Freed, Death in Washington (Westport, Connecticut, 1980), p. 141.


The review offered so far of George Bush's activities during the late 1950's and early 1960's is almost certainly incomplete in very important respects. There is good reason to believe that Bush was engaged in something more than just the oil business during those years. Starting about the time of the Bay of Pigs invasion in the spring of 1961, we have the first hints that Bush, in addition to working for Zapata Offshore, may also have been a participant in certain covert operations of the US intelligence community.

Such participation would certainly be coherent with George's role in the Prescott Bush, Skull and Bones, and Brown Brothers, Harriman networks. During the twentieth century, the Skull and Bones/Harriman circles have always maintained a sizable and often decisive presence inside the intelligence organizations of the State Department, the Treasury Department, the Office of Naval Intelligence, the Office of Strategic Services, and the Central Intelligence Agency. Indeed, the Harriman and related Anglophile financier factions of Wall Street have generally regarded those parts of the state apparatus dealing with intelligence and covert operations as their own very special property, property which had to be kept seeded with control networks in order to be effectively steered from above. For George Bush to interface with the intelligence community while ostensibly engaged in his business career would be coherent with that well-established pattern.

EXCERPT...

On the day of the Kennedy assassination, FBI records show George Bush as reporting a right-wing member of the Houston Young Republicans for making threatening comments about President Kennedy. According to FBI documents released under the Freedom of Information Act,

On November 22, 1963 Mr. GEORGE H.W. BUSH, 5525 Briar, Houston, Texas, telephonically advised that he wanted to relate some hear say that he had heard in recent weeks, date and source unknown. He advised that one JAMES PARROTT had been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in politics in the Houston area.

According to related FBI documentation, "a check with Secret Service at Houston, Texas revealed that agency had a report that PARROTT stated in 1961 he would kill President Kennedy if he got near him." Here Bush is described as "a reputable businessman." FBI agents were sent to interrogate Parrott's mother, and later James Milton Parrott himself. Parrott had been discharged from the US Air Force for psychiatric reasons in 1959. Parrott had an alibi for the time of the Dallas shootings; he had been in the company of another Republican activist. According to press accounts, Parrott was a member of the right-wing faction of the Houston GOP which was oriented towards the John Birch Society and which opposed Bush's chairmanship. 19 According to the San Francisco Examiner, Bush's press office in August, 1988 first said that Bush had not made any such call, and challenged the authenticity of the FBI documents. Several days later Bush's spokesman said that the candidate "does not recall" placing the call.

One day later after he reported Parrott to the FBI, Bush received a highly sensitive, high-level briefing from the Bureau:

(THE SECOND MEMO...)

CONTINUED...

http://www.tarpley.net/bush8b.htm



There was no caller ID in 1963. All we have is Bush's word he was in Tyler. Wonder what the hotel records would show...
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
64. How do we KNOW GHWB called from 70 miles away?
70 miles can be travelled in about one and a quarter hours.

But, anyone can say they are calling from somewhere distant, or hint at it.

Or, they could make a Phone Co. record by having or knowing someone else was calling from a distant phone.

I think he had enough time to drive it, fast.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
98. He waited 75 minutes because that's how long it took to drive to Tyler.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
109. That's what you refer to as
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 08:06 PM by libhill
covering your ass. Also known as "plausible deniability". "But, but, but - I tried to warn them, see, I'm a patriot - I was a few minutes too late, that's all". How could they even dare to presume Poppy was involved?
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demble Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can you paraphrase the info?
The memos are difficult to read... How does this involve G.H.W.B.? I've always been interested in the Kennedy assassination and wanted more info...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Here are transcripts...
Here are the memos, without all the tags and mimeograph blots:



TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY


At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #


From the next week...



Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #



BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, demble!
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demble Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Thank you!
That helps a lot!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
88. Octafish you are amazing!


You know how to stick to it until the TRUTH comes to light.

Now if we can all keep our eyes wide open instead of wide shut we may discover connections that we could NEVER imagine.

Now that Woodward 's clothes have been taken off we see that he easily could have weaved himself into the heart of Poppy.

Weave himself enough to be the only reporter to have aan exclusive interview whth the
Chimp!

Such access!
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting! I had heard that he was in Dallas
that day, but never saw documentation of it before ~ but, was he in the CIA back then? I know he was in the '70s but I didn't know he was then.

I have also heard that Nixon was in Dallas the day Kennedy was shot, but again, never saw it documented anywhere.

Btw, with all the assassinations and suspected assassinations, how many from the right, Republicans, have died this way? Been murdered, I mean?


Strange how the same people keep showing up on historical days, when national tragedies occur. Bush's son was connected to Reagan's (attempted) assassin, eg.

Giuliani was there on 9/11, Bush' brother was in charge of 'security' at the WTC that day.

Giuliani was in London when it was bombed on 7/7. He was involved in 'security'.

Giuliani's former police chief, Bernie Kerik was involved in 'security' in Jordan when the bombings occurred there.

Maybe it's time to take a close look at all these 'security' firms. They're beginning to look more like undertakers themselves, than people trying to prevent a need for an undertaker.

This many coincidences make me feel that if I go anywhere and find out that Giuliani, Kerik, or any member of the Bush family is in charge of 'security' ~ it's time to leave, before it's too late.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. The assassination of JFK has important answers to the corruption today.
It has the keys to the answers many Americans have been seeking for quite some time. The answers are there.



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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Why do I have it in my memory
that JFK was working on a major speech to warn American cizizens of the threat to their democracy? :freak: Ike delivered his in 1961...
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
111. 11/22/63 -
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 08:24 PM by libhill
The source from whence all subsequent atrocities floweth.
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johnnyburma Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. The Mayor of NYC was there on 911?
Get out!
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atfqn Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yeah, IIRC
I think him and several aides were just happened to be traveling the subway a few blocks away that morning.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. Yeah, he couldn't find his bunker
Edited on Sat Nov-26-05 10:28 PM by Catrina
which he brilliantly insisted on putting in the WTC, a known target of terrorists. So while to the rest of the country, he was 'there', to many people in NY the only reason anyone saw him that day, was because the bunker he built to keep himself safe in, was not available. Meantime this so-called hero, failed to recognize or acknowledge for eight years, despite the previous attack in 1993, that the WTC would most likely again be a target of terrorists.

When he appeared before the 9/11 Commission and spent his time patting himself on the back, the victims families told him in no uncertain terms what they though of him, and demanded that he stop talking about himself, and start to answer some questions.

It is my dream that the Republicans are foolish enough to make him their candidate in 2008. He has escaped serious questioning about 9/11, while making a fortune on the 'reputation' (mostly PR) given to him while the country was in shock.

He insisted that the warnings about another attack were foolish. Even when people like John O'Neill and other terror experts, along with many NYers, worried, not about whether, but when it would happen again. It's time for him to explain why NYC was so unprepared for 9/11 after seven years of trials and the amount of information that came out of those trials, all of which was ignored.

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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. He should explain why he sold the WTC rubble off BEFORE forensics...
What? Rudy never saw CSI?

Rudy should be in prison - awaiting trial for his role in this penultimate example of the "inside job"...


September 12-October 2001: Steel Debris From WTC Shipped Out of US for Recycling Complete 911 Timeline
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=wo...


Steel beams from the WTC were already being removed and recycled by September 20, 2001, when this picture was taken.

In the month following 9/11, a significant amount of the steel debris from the WTC collapses is removed from the rubble pile, cut into smaller sections, and either melted at a recycling plant or shipped out of the US. Each of the twin towers contained 78,000 tons of recyclable steel. Much of this is shipped to India, China, and other Asian countries, where it will be melted down and reprocessed into new steel products. Asian companies are able to purchase the steel for just $120 per ton, compared, for example, to a usual average price of $150 per ton in China. Industry officials estimate that selling off the steel and other metals from the WTC for recycling could net a few tens of million dollars. 9/11 victims' families and some engineers are angered at the decision to quickly discard the steel, believing it should be examined to help determine how the towers collapsed. A respected fire fighting trade magazine comments, We are literally treating the steel removed from the site like garbage, not like crucial fire scene evidence. Rep. Joseph Crowley (D) will later call the loss of this evidence borderline criminal. By March 2002, 150 pieces of steel from the WTC debris will have been identified by engineers for use in future investigations (see March 6, 2002). A study by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), which commences in August 2002 , will have 236 pieces of recovered steel available to it. Of these, 229 pieces are from WTC 1 and 2, representing roughly 0.25 percent to 0.5 percent of the 200,000 tons of structural steel used in the construction of the two towers. New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg defends the decision to quickly get rid of the WTC steel, saying, If you want to take a look at the construction methods and the design, that's in this day and age what computers do. Just looking at a piece of metal generally doesn't tell you anything. Officials in the mayor's office decline to reply to requests by the New York Times regarding who decided to have the steel recycled.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. When RFK was assassinated, the LAPD got rid of the evidence PDQ.
Thanks for the heads-up on the WTC wreckage, RBHam. These Bushfellahs sure know how to get rid of evidence quickly.

In 1968, Bobby Kennedy was a threat to the War Party...



CITIZINE RESEARCH

RFK Assassination Far From Resolved

Physical evidence and eyewitness testimony give reason to reconsider Sirhan Sirhans conviction for the 1968 murder of Robert F. Kennedy.


By Thom White

EXCERPT...

Follow the bullets

There is evidence of more than eight bullets being fired. Sirhans gun only had eight chambers, and there was no time for him to reload, so for the crazed lone gunman theory to be plausible, there could only be evidence of eight bullets fired.

As many as five or six ceiling panels were removed by the LAPD investigating team, and lead criminalogist DeWayne Wolfer is quoted as saying, Its unbelievable how many holes there are in the kitchen ceiling.

Wolfer filled his official report with magic bullets (bullets #2, 4, and 6 that supposedly struck more than one person) to stay within the eight-bullet parameters and reach the desired conclusion. Here is how the LAPD accounted for the bullets:
Bullet #1: struck Senator Robert F. Kennedy behind the right ear.
Bullet #2: passed through RFKs right shoulder pad and struck campaign aide Paul Schrade in the forehead.
Bullet #3: entered RFKs back inches below the top of the right shoulder.
Bullet #4: entered RFKs back, about one inch below bullet #3, but exited the senators body through the right front chest.
Bullet #5: struck Ira Goldstein in the right rear buttock.
Bullet #6: passed through Goldsteins pants leg, struck the cement floor, and, ricocheted onto Irwin Strolls left leg.
Bullet #7: struck William Weisel in the left abdomen.
Bullet #8: reflected off the plaster ceiling to strike Elizabeth Evans in the head.

SNIP...

Investigative reporter Jonn Christian found a Chicago Tribune article authored by Robert Weidrich. Weidrich had evidently been in the pantry as the doorjamb was being removed, for his account contained the following information:

On a low table lay an 8-foot strip of molding, torn by police from the center post of the double doors leading from the ballroom. These were the doors through which Sen. Kennedy had walked....Now the molding bore the scars of a crime laboratory technicians probe as it had removed two .22-caliber bullets that had gone wild.

The LAPD report said these holes were not from bullets and may have been caused by collisions with a food cart, but even FBI agent William Bailey said that for him and other agents, There was no questions in any of our minds as to the fact that they were bullet holes.


These bullets are not accounted for in Wolfers LAPD report. This door jamb was destroyed under a court order in 1969 soon after Sirhans conviction for murder.

CONTINUED...

http://www.citizinemag.com/politics/politics_0506_rfk_t...



Some world we live in.

Let's make it better by bringing these traitors responsible for the assassinations of the Kennedys and Dr. King (and I believe Sen. Wellstone and JFK Jr.) to justice.



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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
113. And don't forget
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 08:29 PM by libhill
9/11. The same cabal was behind all of those events. Makes you wonder what their agenda really is -?
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #113
135. Interesting. The "Fall of Communism" and the "Rise of Terrorism"
...both occurred on Poppy's watch.

The Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and the first WTC bombing occurred in 1993, although planning for it took place in 1991.

The boogieman of communism is replaced by the boogieman of terrorism.

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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. The war machine always needs an "ism" to keep fighting dont they?
Keeps the money, and the blood, flowing.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #46
137. My Plame research tied the sale of WTC rubble to the Khan Network.
The BFEE is in bed with Khan's Nuclear Walmart through Cheney and Rumsfeld. Be sure to read the whole story on my signature link to my paper American Judas. It gives more detail to the serpentine links I refer to in this post:

robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-11-05 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
63. Not exactly the Farsi trail, but a serpentine link connecting Khan & WTC.
Fellow DUer flyarm pointed out something I had not previously considered. A lot of the research into A.Q. Khan's network uncovered a lot of dirty shenanigans in Malaysia by Khan's financial officer B.S.A. Tahir. What I didn't look into was that most of the steel from the remains of the WTC was shipped to Malaysia after 9/11.

So what company was responsible for this?

I found the answer - Megasteel:

Megasteel Sdn. Bhd., a subsidiary of the Lion Group - one of Malaysia's largest conglomerates, refused to talk to The Associated Press on the record about the World Trade Center scrap at its plant, or to answer written questions.
"We do not want any undue publicity," Lion spokeswoman Quah Lee Cheng said.
Company executives and government officials confirmed, on condition of anonymity, that Megasteel took delivery last month of a 35,000-ton shipment of scrap metal that included some World Trade Center steel.

more...

http://pgoh.free.fr/wtc_steel.html

So, I wondered, is there anyone working for Lion Group connected with Khan's nuclear Walmart? I think we have a candidate - Tan Sri Asmat:

Directors' Profiles

As at 1st October 2004

Tan Sri Datuk Asmat bin Kamaludin
YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat, 61 a Malaysian, is an Independent Non-Executive Director and the Chairman of Scomi. He was appointed to the Board on 3rd March 2003. YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat holds a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from the University of Malaya, and also holds a Diploma in European Economic Integration from the University of Amsterdam. YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat has vast experience in various capacities in the public service and his last position was as the Secretary-General of the Ministry of International Trade and Industry, a position he had held from 1992 to 2001. He has served as Economic Counsellor for Malaysia in Brussels and has worked with several international bodies such as ASEAN, World Trade Organisation and the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation, representing Malaysia in relevant negotiations and agreements.

Tan Sri Asmat has also been actively involved in several national organisations such as Permodalan Nasional Berhad, Johor Corporation, the Small and Medium Scale Industries Corporation (SMIDEC) and the Malaysia External Trade Development Co-operation (MATRADE) while in the Malaysian Government service. Other Malaysian public companies in which he is a director are UMW Holdings Berhad, YTL Cement Berhad, Permodalan Nasional Bhd, Malaysian Pacific Industries Bhd, Carlsberg Brewery Malaysia Bhd, Commerce Asset-Holding Bhd, Lion Industries Corporation Bhd, Symphony House Berhad, Matsushita Electric Company (Malaysia) Berhad and Trans-Asia Shipping Corporation Bhd. YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat is a member of, and chairs both the Remuneration Committee and Nomination Committee of the Board.

more...

http://www.scomigroup.com.my/publish/Director_profiles....


So here's the serpentine link as I see it: A.Q. Khan's financial officer B.S.A. Tahir laundered money through Scomi. One of Scomi's directors is Tan Sri Asmat, who is also a director of Lion Group, which is responsible for but refuses to talk about melting down scrap metal from the remains of the World Trade Center.

Again: Khan-Tahir-Scomi-Lion Group-WTC.

The key to the Scomi-Lion Group connection is Tan Sri Asmat.

Anyone have any more avenues to explore on this trail? I find it all very interesting. :)

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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #137
143. kick
:kick:
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. "Maybe it's time to take a close look at all these 'security' firms"
You mean the ones owned by Kuwaiti's and Saudi's? Good idea. If only we had an objective way to investigate things like that. Maybe something like a NEWS MEDIA or something. I'm just saying is all...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
48. For some reason, political assassination seems to hit Liberals...
The one time I remember an assassination being directed against a Conservative was in the case of Democratic governor of Alabama George Wallace. Coincidently, removing Wallace from the 1972 race would only serve to help Nixon, also a Conservative racist kind of guy. Of course, to make sure the Presstitutes got the right idea, the Reich has its stooges show up PDQ to plant incriminating evidence at the home of the designated intended assassin. Ask E. Howard Hunt:



Richard Nixon and George Wallace

EXCERPT...

In July 1969, Nixon pressurized the IRS into forming the Special Services Staff (SSS). The role of the SSS was to target Nixons political enemies. By 1970 the SSS had compiled a list of 4,000 individuals. Most of this list were on the left. However, Nixon now added George Wallace and several of his aides to this list. This included Georges brother, Gerald Wallace, who had indeed made a fortune on local projects. This included a $2.9 million contract for asphalt that went to Gerald's company even though he charged a $2.50 per ton over the going price. By August 1970, the SSS had 75 people working on what was known as the Alabama Project.

To show he meant business, one of Wallaces closest aides, Seymore Trammell, was sent to prison for 4 years for corruption. Nixon then used Winston Blount, his Postmaster General, to begin negotiations with Wallace. A deal was eventually struck with Wallace. In return for calling off the SSS, Wallace would not become a third party candidate. On 12th January, 1972, Attorney General John Mitchell announced he was not going to prosecute Gerald Wallace. On 13th January, Wallace gave a press conference where he announced he would not be a third party candidate. The plan was that Wallace would create havoc in the Democratic Party but that eventually George McGovern would become the winner, a man that Nixon knew he could beat.

However, Wallace did much better than expected. Nixon now feared that Wallace would not keep his promise and would indeed become a third party candidate. Polls suggested that virtually all of Wallaces votes would come from Nixons potential supporters. If Wallace stood, Nixon faced the prospect of being defeated by McGovern.

On 15th May, 1972, Bremer tried to assassinate George Wallace at a presidential campaign rally in Laurel, Maryland. Mark Felt immediately took charge of the case. According to Dan T. Carter, Felt had a trusted contact in the White House: Charles Colson. Felt gave Colson the news. Within 90 minutes of the shooting Nixon and Colson are recorded discussing the case. Already they are talking about finding a way to blame George McGovern for the shooting.

Meanwhile Colson phones E. Howard Hunt and suggests he breaks in to Bremers apartment. According to Hunt, he dislikes the idea but makes preparations for the trip. He claims that later Colson calls off the operation.

CONTINUED...

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4...



Planting evidence. manipulating primaries. Rigging elections.

When it comes to the GOP, some things never change.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
67. Mark Felt was Hoover's prime operative for many COINTELPRO jobs
Felt was no innocent whistleblower. He had a leading role in carrying out a large number of political dirty-tricks operations against persons and organizations (most on the Left) who Hoover considered to be subversive or threatening to Establishment interests.

If he was indeed Deep Throat, it was because Hoover also felt threatened by Nixon.
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deminks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #67
81. Interesting that you should say "if"
I was just thinking about this this morning. Woodward is lying his ass off lately about Plame. What else has he lied about recently? Bernstein and Bradley et all only know what Woodward told them about Deep Throat. I only throw this out there because I am wondering out loud.

When did Woodward resign his Navy Intelligence job?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #81
92. That's like resigning as a Yale alumnist. Not many do.
If you're suggesting that Woodward is still a spook, of course he is, in the sense that he still has contacts with ONI people, retired and active duty. He has the same sort of friends in multiple agencies around Washington, with whom he exchanges information on a regular basis. He is a well-connected Washington journalist and a major player in his on right. That's okay, provided he doesn't break any laws and doesn't mislead the public in the process. He may have done both.

I doubt that he's received a dime from the Navy Dept. after he resigned his commission.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #67
118. Mark Felt also was good friends with Charles Colson.
Deep Throat had many sources inside the Nixon White People's House.

For Nixon and Hoover, Hunt and Felt worked to jimmy the Bremer-Wallace investigation.

Later: Felt, Hunt, Woodward all were involved with Tricky Dick getting the ziggy.

Earlier: It isn't hard to see the same pattern with Prescott and GHW Bush, Hunt, Hoover being involved with Dallas.

Today: The fact of the matter is the same organizations show up in most nefarious and treasonous activities since.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
51. Poppy was CIA at least since the late 1950's
Allen Dulles, the first director of the CIA was Prescott Bush's lawyer when he and his business partners were funding Hitler. So in other words, the same traitors who enabled the Third Reich are the ones who founded the CIA.

George HW Bush himself was in all probability in charge of the failed Bay of Pigs operation. Though neither Poppy or the agency will admit to it (due to their secretive nature) Bush's involvement can be proven by any historical record of the Bay of Pigs operation.

Three boats were involved in the plan. The names of the boats were the "Houston", the "Zapata" and the "Barbara". Or in other words, Poppy's hometown, his company name (Zapata Oil) and of course, his wife.

Richard Nixon, in tapes later heard during the Watergate investigation, could be heard discussing "that Bay of Pigs thing" and he would always refer to "the Texans" when talking about it. Those who knew Tricky Dick best, however, realized that when he said "that Bay of Pigs thing", he wasn't referring to just the Cuban invasion attempt, but the JFK assassination itself.

Coincidentally, Nixon was also in Dallas on 11/22/63. He was at a Pepsi shareholders meeting. By no small coincidence, the Pepsi corporation happenned to be one of the companies pressuring the US government to invade Cuba, so they could restore the cheap sugar supply they had under the Batista dictatorship.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #51
68. PepsiCo's President Donald M. Kendall also has an interesting
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 06:36 AM by leveymg
past. Kendall was elevated to President of the company in 1963. Like Poppy, he also served as a Navy carrier pilot during World War Two in the Pacific.

As VP in charge of PepsiCo foreign operations, he was instrumental in opening the Soviet Union to Pepsi products meeting with Krushchev in 1959, and in 1972 he engineered the first major US-USSR trade deal.

Along with Coca-Cola, PepsiCo was a major corporate ally of the CIA during the Cold War, often providing corporate cover for Agency operations abroad. (Chauncey Holt was interviewed by John Craig, Phillip Rogers and Gary Shaw for a Newsweek magazine aricle on the JFK assassination and the CIA's alledged role, in the 19th October, 1991 issue)

"I should point out of course, one name I haven't mentioned and probably the most important on the West Coast was Phillip A. Twombly. Twombly had been at one time an Executive Vice President of Coca Cola for their Caribbean operations. And along with Donald Kendall (Pepsi Cola), was considered by the CIA to be the eyes and ears of the CIA (down there). So he came to California and bought a bank in Fullerton, which was strictly for the use as a conduit of finances.

SNIP

Phillip Twombly asked us if we would be willing to fly to New Orleans and give some support to Oswald, who was a stranger to us. The only thing we knew about Oswald at the time was we had detected the address on there as being 544 Camp Street. Although we were not familiar with Oswald we certainly knew what was at 544 Camp Street because we had done that before. SNIP http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtwombly.htm



In 1970, Kendall was instrumental in convincing Henry Kissinger and Kendall's old friend, Richard Nixon, to order the CIA to overthrow the Government of Chilean President Salvador Allende, after Allende pursued a third-way policy of "socialism with a human face" that defied the Soviets as well as the Americans.http://www.gregpalast.com/printerfriendly.cfm?artid=36

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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #51
75. Wow! Remarkable...
Heard & read much of this over the years. Thanks for putting it all together for us.

It's all falling into place now. PNAC/NEO-CONS & direct lineal connections to Hitler & funding of death camps.

Other posters have something there when they state "why is it only Democrats" are assassinated, etc. Wondering what Reagan did wrong, other then get in the way of Poppy VP's agenda.

What are we to do? "They" have everything under their control now.

This sucks, badly. We need the media to pound this out daily, especially on the tube.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #75
130. "IF" Reagan had died,Poppy would have been President!!


Think about it!

Isn't that remarkable?!

And to think that the Hinkley's and the Bush family were dear friends.

Isn't that amazing!
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
122. Thank you for answering my questions re Nixon being in Dallas
that day. I'm not sure where I heard it, but was never certain whether or not it was true.

Also, thanks for information on Bush Sr.'s career in the CIA. For some reason I thought he hadn't joined until the '70s.

Nixon and Bush Sr. both in Dallas when Kennedy was shot. You would think this would be of great historical interest in this country. Two future Republican presidents! A coincidence of historical proportions, imo, considering the event itself.

Bush Sr. seems to always have had ties to the Batista Cubans, and also in Haiti, to the Papa Doc regime. This family has a history of being close to the most vicious of dictators, from the Nazis to Saddam Hussein.

If only we had a free press, the complete history of this family would be thoroughly investigated ~ and appropriate action taken against them. The fact that they name Bush has been associated with so many nefarious deeds over the past 60 years makes it very curious that not once have they ever been held accountable for anything. That leads to the question, 'who supports them?' Who are they really working for? It must be a very powerful element either here or globally.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #51
123. W Bragged Poppy was CIA in 1973... Two Years BEFORE Poppy was DCI!
The woman whose late husband, a TANG buddy of "Lt." George W Bush, said people didn't know much about the Bushes in 1973, but people did know ONE important thing:



Fear of Flying: A Duval County Woman Says Nerves Ended W's National Guard Service In Texas

by Susan Cooper Eastman

EXCERPT...

For Linke, W's auxiliary service has become a very personal flashpoint. Linke's husband died while serving in the Texas Guard in 1973 after drinking at the officer's club. He nodded off at the wheel, drove into a lake and drowned. Linke was 27 years old with a 3-year-old son. She didn't know much about who W was then; his family was not on the national radar. "We were told his father was very wealthy Texan with CIA connections."

SOURCE:

http://www.legitgov.org/essay_eastman_bush_fear_of_flyi...



So, it appears W bragged about his Daddy bein' CIA in 1973.

That would make Poppy a perjurer when he told Congress he was never in the CIA before becoming Director of Central Intelligence.

Gee. Wonder what else he's lied about?
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
89. Catrina Rocks on this post!


It is magical how much these people want to be our little security blankets at the most horrible times.

They must be some mighty BRAVE and Right Place At The Right Time men! :sarcasm:

What are the odds?


1 trillion to one that our little security blankets would be there for Amerika at exactly the right time.

I think they think we are Stuck On Stupid and we are if we don't open our eyes.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #89
114. Well -
I'm afraid we've "been stuck on stupid" since 1963. A lot of sheeple still believe the Warren Commision.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #114
120. Right -do you think the Take Over Started in 1963?


I honestly can't put my finger on it but it seemed to grow as GHWB gained more and more power and influence IMO.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. I do believe
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 11:21 PM by libhill
that 11/22/63 was the starting point, or maybe the catalyst for every thing that followed. They got away with killing Kennedy, the public was too scared or too stupid to challenge the official story (little wonder, since many doubters and key witnesses kept turning up dead), and so they continued - M.L. King, Bobby Kennedy, Malcolm X., Wallace, Lennon, even their own boy Ronnie Ray Gun - well, they tried to whack Ronnie any way. Curious and curiouser. It certainly looks as though any one who, in their warped minds, posed a threat to their agenda or their vision of a fascistic corporate owned America, had to be eliminated. They tried real hard to ruin Clinton too, as you know. But they dared not try murder, so they had to try to ruin him personally and politically. Why Clinton is so buddy buddy with the Bushistas, is beyond my comprehension.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #121
128. I believe what you believe
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 09:43 AM by goclark
and I am truly floored by the buddy buddy with Clinton.
He needs to stay as far away from Poppy as possible.
Poppy is an innocent looking snake in the grass -- He is NOT!

That is what I don't understand.


Octafish has done a magnificent job of explaining his locations, and his families locations on days and times of interest.

I wish some high powered camera could really see if that is really him in from of the Book Building in Texas on that JFK horrible day.

It sure looks like him to me but I wish we could be sure.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #128
142. It's hard to prove with a grainy picture,
but I'll bet it is him - watching his hit team do their stuff, or just co-ordinating things. How that creepy bastard lives with his concience is hard to imagine. I'd go nuts with all of those atrocities on my mind.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #142
144. It looks like him to me too and since he can't remember

where he was that day ~maybe someone should send him a copy of this photo to refresh his memory.

I wonder what he would say if a Media person that finally gets it would whip that photo out and ask him about it -- oh happy day that would be!
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #144
160. LOL
That would be fun to see, but I'm sure he'd just make another smart ass remark about "the grassy knoll society". I don't recall the exact circumstances, but I saw a media clip where a reporter once asked him about the J.F.K. conspiracy, and he blew it off with that grassy knoll comment, and another snide remark about "Yeah, some people believe in UFOs too." You should know, Georgie.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #160
161. He is a snake of the highest order nt
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Babs was with him as well
Somehow I can envision Ma Barker Bush pulling a trigger.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. They say that G Gordon Liddy was in Memphis the day ML King
was killed. We know that Ray was financed by right wing extremist.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. babs and georgie were having lunch in a hotel, poppy went away
for a couple hours if i remember it correctly
neil? had lunch with reagans assinators parents day of
george 1 having breakfast with bin ladens mornign of 9/11

and the probability is..........
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
103. seabeyond help me out

Are you saying that GHWB had breakfast with the BL family the morning of 9 -11?

That is the first time I have heard that -----

Amazing,simply amazing
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #103
112. one of the bin ladens. yup, i find it simply amazing too n/t
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #103
116. Not really
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 08:50 PM by libhill
what's really amazing is the stupidity, credulity, and gullibility of the American people. We buy into the bull shit propaganda about out great, free, wonderful country, while we live under a murderous, secretive government, controlled by bloody minded, self serving thugs.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
49. Nixon said of her: 'Now there's a woman who knows how to hate.'
Would that he was in Austin...



What Happens When George W. Bush Comes Home a Loser?

He's Coming Back


BY LOUIS DUBOSE
The Austin Chronicle
October 13, 2000:

Gore Vidal doesn't think much of the Bushes, which is no surprise. And according to Vidal, neither did Richard Nixon, who once observed that Bush the Elder was the "sort of person you appoint to office" rather than the sort of person you could envision in the White House. But Nixon admired Barbara Bush -- because "she knows how to hate."

In the lobby of the Canal Street Hotel where the Texas delegation was housed for the 1988 Republican National Convention, George W. was courting the Texas press corps. Easy and accessible, he locked on with those blue eyes, first-named reporters, and held forth in the hotel lobby for as long as anyone holding a tape recorder cared to stand and listen.

The only time he showed any sign of anger was when he was asked about then-Gov. Ann Richards' comment about his father being "born with a silver foot in his mouth." The blue eyes narrowed as he responded to the reporter who asked the question. "It was mean and uncalled-for," he said. "It didn't bother my dad. He's lived with 'Doonesbury,' so he's used to that. But it hurt my mother." Gov. Bush talks like his father, who was as prone to malapropisms and non sequiturs, but he thinks like his mother -- which is a way of saying that he believes grudges should be transgenerational and involve corruption of blood and children avenging the wrongs visited on their parents.

In 1988 in New Orleans, Bush wanted to get even. And that was just for a slight aimed at his father but felt most keenly by his mother. What if he loses the presidency? I think we all know what. If George W. Bush loses the election next month, he will come back to Austin looking to settle some scores -- Big Time. And anyone who thinks the Texas governorship is a weak office is going to learn a little something about the exercise of power by the master -- not George W. Bush, but his chief strategist Karl Rove.

They're keeping lists. Of every insult, no matter how small. Of every criticism, no matter how fair. Of every news clip. Of every joke, no matter how innocent. This reporter speaks from some experience concerning Rove and lists. In April of last year I was a panelist in Boulder, Colorado -- at the Conference on World Affairs, a wonderful liberal gabfest that longtime participant Roger Ebert refers to as "the leisure of the theory class." Having co-written with Molly Ivins a book on Bush, I was called upon to talk about Bush's record in Texas.

CONTINUED...

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2000-10-...


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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here's a link to an article that goes into this in depth
http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/112404_kennedy_insult.s...

(snip)

"But there is something else about John F. Kennedy in particular that makes the Bushes jumpy. The name "George Bush" appears much too frequently in documents, some newly released, relating to the assassination of President Kennedy. Since there is no statute of limitations on murder or accessory to murder, I can understand why Bush pere and fils may want to erase November 22, 1963 from the history books."

(snip)
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. The Bay of Pigs is surrounded by the Zapata swamps...hence Zapata Offshore
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. Yeah. I've thought about that article every day since I first read it.
Madsen tried to get in to the JFK Memorial in Arlington National Cemetery. The screws did all they could to keep him and the public away on November 22. It seems they have darn good reason to be afraid.



George Bush, Skull and Bones, and the JFK Assassination
"The Order of Skull and Bones"

Everything You Ever Wanted to Know, But Were Afraid to Ask.


By Kris Millegan

Rodney Stich's book "Defrauding America" tells of a "deep-cover CIA officer" assigned to a counter-intelligence unit, code-named Pegasus. This unit "had tape-recordings of plans to assassinate Kennedy" from a tap on the phone of J. Edgar Hoover. The people on the tapes were " Rockefeller, Allen Dulles, Johnson of Texas, George Bush and J. Edgar Hoover."

SNIP...

In 1963, Bush was living in Houston, busily carrying out his duties as president of the Zapata Offshore oil company. He denied the existence of a note sent by the FBI's J. Edgar Hoover to "Mr. George Bush of the CIA." When news of the note surfaced, the CIA first said they never commented on employment questions, but later relented said yes, a "George Bush" was mentioned in the note, but that it was "another" George Bush, not the man who took office in the White House in 1988.

Some intrepid reporters tracked down the "other" George Bush and discovered that he was just a lowly clerk who had shuffled papers for the CIA for about six months. He never received any interagency messages from anybody at the FBI, let alone the Queen Mary.

It is also worth noting that a CIA code word for Bay of Pigs was Operation Zapata, and that two of the support vessels were named Barbara and Houston.

Many say that George Bush was high up on the CIA ladder at the time, running proprietorial vehicles and placed in a position of command, responsible for many of the Cubans recruited into "service" at the time. All through the Iran-Contra affair, Felix Rodriguez, the man who captured and had Che Guevara killed for the CIA, always seemed to call Bush's office first.

SOURCE...

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/...



Thanks for giving a damn, radio4progressives!
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
91. Thank you for the link. Terrific, telling article. I thought this part
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 02:46 PM by shance
spoke volumes of those trying to "disappear" and demonize Kennedy and his true legacy.

<< Perhaps the memory of Kennedy is a bit too much for the neo-cons in the Pentagon. Just consider the differences between Bush and Kennedy. One was a bona fide war hero who was beloved by the American people and the world. The other is a draft dodger who failed to show up for his required medical exams and mandatory training and duty and is hated throughout the world. One started the Alliance for Progress to create better living conditions in Latin America.

The other permits his thuggish Secret Service agents to get into a fracas with Chilean security agents and creates a diplomatic incident by requiring Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation banquet guests in Santiago to go through a metal detector. One brought the world to peace from the edge of nuclear war. The other seeks to plunge the world into a series of never-ending wars. One was brutally murdered in Dallas. The other used Dallas as a base to feather his financial nest by making deals on money-losing oil exploration companies, a taxpayer-funded baseball stadium, and shady political accommodations with crooked politicians and terrorist-connected Saudis that would make the politicians of Tammany Hall uncomfortable.>>

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/112404_kennedy_insult.s...

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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
99. Did JFK Jr. have evidence?
Did they erase him too?
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Gee, let's name the CIA's HQ in DC after him...swell idea for posterity
Let's see, isn't offing a president like an illegal domestic operation ? He must have been reading Voltaire's quote about democracy being the best system when tempered by...something...can someone look up the exact quote ?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
58. Dallas police reported running into 'Secret Service agents' on the knoll..
Gee. Did the Warren Commission even bother to investigate that angle?



THE MAN WHO WASN'T THERE,

WAS THERE

PHONY SECRET SERVICE AGENTS IN DEALEY PLAZA


Michael T. Griffith
1996@All Rights Reserved

Some witnesses said they encountered Secret Service agent in Dealey Plaza moments after the assassination. These reports continue to be the subject of much controversy. Why? Because it has long been established that no genuine Secret Service agents on the ground in Dealey Plaza until later that afternoon. This fact suggests phony Secret Service agents were in Dealey Plaza, and that they were there to help the assassins escape. David Scheim(1) summarizes:

"After the shooting, Dallas Police officer Joe M. Smith encountered another suspicious man in the lot behind the picket fence . Smith told the Warren Commission that when he drew his pistol and approached the man, the man "showed that he was a Secret Service agent."

Another witness also reported encountering a man who displayed a badge and identified himself as a Secret Service agent. But according to Secret Service Chief James Rowley and agents at the scene, all Secret Service personnel stayed with the motorcade, as required by regulations, and none was stationed in the railroad parking lot . It thus appeared that someone was carrying fraudulent Secret Service credentials--of no perceptible use to anyone but an escaping assassin. (Scheim 30-31)

Not only were there no Secret Service (SS) agents stationed on or behind the grassy knoll, but there were no FBI or other federal agents stationed there either. Officer Smith was not the only witness who encountered an apparently phony federal agent. Malcolm Summers ran to the knoll moments after the shooting. He related the following in the 1988 documentary Who Murdered JFK?:

"I ran across the--Elm Street to right there toward the knoll. It was there --and we were stopped by a man in a suit and he had an overcoat--over his arm and he, he, I saw a gun under that overcoat. And he--his comment was, "Don't you all come up here any further, you could get shot, or killed," one of those words. A few months later, they told me they didn't have an FBI man in that area. If they didn't have anybody, it's a good question who it was. " (Anderson 14)

"Don't you all come up here any further, you could get shot, or killed..." --- the mystery SS Agent

http://www.jfklancer.com/ManWho.html



Almost forgot:

"An ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination." --- Voltaire

That sounds so BFEE...
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. A link to another more detailed article on the Assassination
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
107. Oh yeah. Paul Kangas is great.
So is Sumeria.net.

Here's a web site that's given me a lot to reflect on:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKindex.htm


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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. Plausible deniability a CIA specialty incase his role in the assassination
was discovered.

Promised the position of POTUS for his part in it no doubt.

They are Evil personified.

Writing such as yours and Historical documented facts will prove this out.

The Nazi hydra raised its head again in America willfully imported by the CIA it laid the cornerstone of its return to power with the murder of JFK.

They are Corporatist's, Fascists & Nazi's blended together to form the far right in America.

K&R

Cheers Octafish



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
108. You got that right, LibertyorDeath. Didya read this hypothesis?
Tony Frank asks some important questions and makes some piquant observations about Poppy's role in Dallas:



George H. W. Bush and Assassinating JFK, Bush's role & the importance of Houston Options

EXCERPT...

All they had to do is check their records to find a suitably threatening person, like James Parrott, who stated in 1961 he would kill President Kennedy if he got near him, then have George Herbert Walker Bush, who would become the 41st President of the United States, furnish information to the effect that James Parrott has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston, and then, after making sure that Houston went swimmingly, have the threat officially documented on November 22, 1963, which may have very well been the day that George Bush actually supplied the information. President Kennedy and the security people would then discount the possibility of a threat in Dallas as the President reaped another harvest of admiration from another throng of ardent admirers who were lining the city streets.

The belated information furnished by George Bush of Houston, where President Kennedy couldnt have felt more secure among the crowd, could have also given a Secret Service agent the opportunity to say, Just the same, we'll make sure the President stays in the car while hes in Dallas. The law says that the chief of the Secret Service is empowered to overrule the President on the question of security precautions.

Making sure President Kennedy stayed in the car while he was in Dallas would most likely have been the paramount reason for having George H. W. Bush allege that there had been a threat in Houston.

It could have occurred to them during the Houston event that it would be most inconvenient if Kennedy was not a sitting duck in Dallas, which would have been the case if he decided to work the crowd and reap the maximum benefit of the ardent admirers in Dallas like he did in Houston, or they could have decided early on when they put together the complex assassination plan that a respectable citizen, a reputable businessman, was essential to furnishing belated information that there had been a threat in Houston so that they could keep Kennedy right where they wanted him.

Whether they thought of it when they saw Kennedy working the crowd in Houston, or whether they thought of this sitting duck idea when they originally planned the assassination, the result was that President Kennedy was sitting in the car at 12:30 PM on November 22, 1963, when the information from George W. Bushs father, George H. W. Bush, officially documented on November 22, 1963, was discounted but not disregarded.

Why else would they have had George Bush do this?

CONTINUED...

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9...



Gee. No stone was left unturned.

Until Oliver, that is.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #108
117. Wow they left nothing to chance
The fact that GHWB made this call to the FBI is
mind numbing.

The fact that it is NEVER discussed or even broached in the
Corporate media is very telling.

Thanks Octafish I thought I knew a lot about American Politics and then I started reading your posts here eye opening to say the least.

Cheers !

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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Probably the guy at the grassy knoll, with a shotgun.
IMO, the blast to Kennedy's head was a slug from a shotgun, from a flanking-forward position, at close range. To blame an old, POS rifle for all the damage is ridiculous.

They covered up JFKs assassination, just like they did with 911. The Warren commission was sloppy and didn't even try to come up with valid answers. Magic bullet my ass.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
115. We[ve argued the facts for 42 years. We should ask: 'Who benefitted?'
There are so many false leads in the Warren Commission report, it is amazing we know as much as we do today. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn there was a shotgun involved, Rex.

The main thing about the assassination, to me, was who has benefitted over the past 42 years? The short answer: The War Party. Its emobodiment is the Bush dynasty.



November 22, 1963 - the coup d'etat against Kennedy - beware the military-industrial complex


42 years ago, the United States of America had a military coup d'etat -- an event that most people chose not to see (a society of "not see's").

President Kennedy was removed after changing his mind on the Cold War. He refused to invade Cuba during the Bay of Pigs debacle, refusing to start nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis (even though his military advisors were demanding it), stopped atmospheric nuclear testing and began the process to withdraw troops from Vietnam.

In his farewell address to the nation, President Eisenhower warned that we should beware the unchecked power of the military-industrial complex. This speech is one of the greatest in American history, and prescient in understanding what was coming. Now, in 2005, the future that Eisenhower warned about is the content of the daily news.

The removal of Kennedy (and later, of his brother on the threshold of his victory in the Presidential campaign) led to the escalation of the Vietnam war, Watergate, the 1980 "October Surprise," the Iran-Contra scandals, BCCI, the invasion of Panama, Desert Storm (1991 war on Iraq), allowing the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, Oklahoma City, the stolen election in Florida in 2000, 9/11 and the anthrax attacks on the Democrats and the media, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the stolen 2004 Presidential election (to cite a few of the many scandals since 1963).

If our society is going to shift course to use our resources for our survival -- instead of military dominance -- we will have to convert the military budget toward peaceful purposes. A key part of the understanding needed to shift course is an honest discussion of the events in Dallas 42 years ago today -- and how those events led to the permanent warfare national security state.



"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience ... In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic process."
-- President Dwight Eisenhower, farewell speech to the nation, January 17, 1961

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."
-- Dwight Eisenhower, April 16, 1953

"I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower in a letter to his brother Edgar, November 8, 1954

CONTINUED... (Lots o' links and resources)

http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/com/113145300.html



The people who killed President Kennedy made money off of Vietnam, the drug trade, the oil trade, the money game, the Iran-Iraq war, the Gulf War, the illegal Iraq invasion and many of the wars and scams to the present day. Their titular head is George W Bush, a dimwitted psychopath.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #115
148. Bookmarked forever Octafish!


In years to come what has been printed in this thread will be found to be TRUE, IMO.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #115
157. Just way to many holes in the lone gunman theory
Sure, the 'people' swallowed everything handed to them about the assassination, but the real mark was the 'go along-get along' fellowship that developed between Dems and Reps alike. Everyone agreed on sealed records that said 'not to open until we are all dead and can't be prosecuted'. The secrecy of all that is known by the gummit about JFK will never see the light of day. Same thing will happen to the 911 commission report.

It's always good to 'follow the money trail' and see where it leads back to. I always found it interesting that LBJ lobbied for Brown & Root and gave them first dibs in Vietnam. I still find it hard to believe.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Well some people think this is him


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toymachines Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. thanks for the pic
never seen this one before. Hard to tell if its him though...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
124. A striking likeness. E Howard Hunt may've been there, too.
It's a match for GHWB, as revealed by the CIA body slouch. In addition to the phony Secret Service agents, there may've been other Intel types running around Dealey Plaza. E Howard Hunt comes to mind.



It's weird: After the tramp pictures were taken in Dealey Plaza, Hunt underwent cosmetic ear surgery that changed the shape of his earlobes, making it more difficult to identify him photographically.

SOURCE (lots of graphics 'n' stuff my old Mac has difficulty in digesting, but it's worth the damage):

http://ajweberman.com/
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
132. Wow. That definitely looks like Bush Sr.
Amazingly so. And he can't remember where he was ... riiiiiight.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wasn't Oswald an
FBI informant?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
54. LHO's earliest association with the CIA was....
...when he was in the Marine Corps. He was trained as a radar operator and was assigned to the Atsugi Air Force Base in Atsugi, Japan, the base where the CIA operated the ultra-secret U-2 program. LHO was involved in tracking the U-2 in and out of the base, a position which required a Crypto clearance. That clearance was one of the highest clearances you could get back in the late-1950s. Additionally, he was assigned to the guard-duty rotation over the hanger in which the U-2s were kept when not flying.

Not a lot of people understand, or even know, that LHO was less than a good shot while in the Marine Corps. Combine that fact with the very bad original condition of the alleged murder weapon, the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, recovered from the Texas School Depository, and you have a situation that may have precluded LHO hitting ANYTHING from the TSBD, IF he was anywhere near the 6th floor.

LHO also had a CIA Personnel File, which meant that he was employed by the CIA at some point in time, probably during the period of time he was working in the Minsk radio factory in the old Soviet Union. The two major clues IMHO that LHO was working for U. S. Intelligence are as follows: 1. The ease with which he was able to declare that he was defecting to the Soviet Union (despite his knowledge of radar systems used to track the U-2); and 2. The ease with which he was able to return to the U. S. with a Soviet-born wife and child without having any major questions asked (at least as far as we know).

But, LHO's oddest association with the CIA was in New Orleans where he may ALSO have been used as an informant by the FBI. It was in New Orleans that LHO was filmed handing out "Fair PLay for Cuba" handbills as if he were working in support of Castro. The handbills had an address that led to a printer for the CIA.

Pretty interesting, is it not?
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Rather fishy. I do remember seeing a picture of him arriving from
the USSR. The byline said something to the effect that he returned because he was disenchanted with the Soviet System.
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Darkwingbird Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
85. Lee Harvey...you're a madman
In response to Media_Lies_Daily statement:

"The two major clues IMHO that LHO was working for U. S. Intelligence are as follows: 1. The ease with which he was able to declare that he was defecting to the Soviet Union (despite his knowledge of radar systems used to track the U-2); and 2. The ease with which he was able to return to the U. S. with a Soviet-born wife and child without having any major questions asked (at least as far as we know)."

...there is actually a much better indicator that LHO was a CIA asset. In the October 1, 1976 edition of the Washington Star, David Martin broke a FOIA document that clearly indicates the CIA "showed intelligence interest" in LHO in 1960 and recommended he be interviewed. (see: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1495 ). This article is proof positive that CIA director Helms had lied under oath to the Warren commission when he stated the CIA had never contemplated any sort of contact with Oswald prior to the JFK assassination. The story was squashed and no further articles of investigation pertaining to the matter were written. The CIA director who ordered the story squashed...George Herbert Walker Bush.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #85
133. Welcome to DU, Darkwingbird!
:hi: :toast:
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. The most venal revelation
I think was that Parrot was a political rival and the Bush mind, ever ready to personally capitalize on any tragedy(as we have seen countless times) reacted with the old dynastic reflex. At least that, which is despicable enough to bounce them from any high office aspirations whatsoever and extremely consistent with 911 behavior and everything else.

The nastier implications dealing with the Bush connections to many other details in the case- like the other nasty details we have today about Junior in relation to the exploitation(but never prevention) of terrorism
are so sordid as to make one set aside what one knows to enter the maze of secrets. Looking for just one crime to throw open the door to all those questions has been so fruitless that everything solid(the memos, the lies, the DWI, the AWOL, etc. etc.) are not only abandoned but lumped together in Alzheimer's' Land. In something is an "unthinkable" theory then ALL the accusations- and evidence- don't count.

The mystery of the most unaccountable American family in our brief history.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thom Hartmann - Ultimate Sacrifice: Plan for a Coup-and the Murder of JFK
This plan involved primarily Cirus Vance & the US Army-- NOT THE CIA
the
The Brothers planned to cover up any US deaths- say maybe --US Ambassador to Guatemala gets shot-- as they were worried about starting WW3.

The CIA had a secondary role in the plan to kill Castro--- and they brought in some mob connections-- some of the same names who were being sought by RFK AS Attorney Gen.

When the Mob found out-- they tried to shoot JFK 1st in Chicago-- which was exposed and prevented-- and then an attempt in Miami that was thwarted-- and then the DAllas shooting.

Within hours RFK realized what had happened- that the Brothers contingency plans -- See- US Ambassador to Guatemala gets shot--

Had been employed against JFK--

SOOOO RFK was running the Autopsy from a phone one floor above the autopsy room
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SmileMaker Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Just picked up a copy of Ultimate Sacrifice tonight - a very LARGE book!
Edited on Sat Nov-26-05 08:36 PM by SmileMaker
Thom had his co-author on the show for two hours on 11/18. If you log into his discussion board, go to archives - http://www.thomhartmann.com/archive.htm == you may need to log into message board. It's in the 'history' section. On Thursday's show (11/24), Thom had Lamar Waldron back in the first hour to talk about the anniversary of Oswald's assasination. Show archives are on WhiteRoseSociety.org commercial free with a reasonably priced subscription or as a podcast for free.

I don't recall them saying that Poppy played much of a role, but my theory, based on all that I've learned about this crowd is that they've operated within a fascistic, shadow network within our government for decades. It's amazing how some in the same crowd were also involved with Iran-Contra.

I'm going to skim around the book for a couple of weeks, then give it to my son's Alternative High School as a holiday gift l because his social studies teacher uses the JFK assasination mystery to engage students in learning about modern US history. Because of this teacher's approach, and others in the school who have a more relaxed proficiency-based learning approach - my son loves school!
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
65. Hartmann had Waldron on his show again on Thanksgiving day (24th).
It was the anniversary of Oswald's murder. The interview touched very briefly on GHWB. Hartmann said he didn't think Poppy was involved. Waldron spoke about Poppy's involvement with the CIA in the 1970s, when the agency was very active in trying to cover up the intelligence failures that had allowed JFK's murder.

The two authors also spoke about their material's inclusion in the series "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". They said that about 20 minutes of the last segment dealt with the information that they had uncovered.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
66. Sorry, but the people running JFK's autopsy.....
...were in the autopsy room itself and they were very senior level military officers. RFK had absolutely nothing to so with his brother's autopsy.

The only reason stuff comes out like this is to further discredit the Kennedy family.

Nothing I've read about the JFK assassination has ever stated that Cyrus Vance and/or the Army was involved.

Sounds like yet another attempt to steer the blame for JFK's assassination away from the folks who had the most to gain by JFK's death.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Just Googling around, I found this.
From this site-

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/jfk2.htm

"it states that George
Herbert Walker Bush and James Parrott, the man named by Bush as
planning to kill JFK in Houston, later that week"were political
enemies", Parrott is also described in the book above as "an active
member of Houston's Young Republicans." Another of many sources for
the Bush call to the FBI 2 hours BEFORE JFK was killed is The
July/August 1992 issue of Spy Magazine, Page 39 ISSN 0890-1759 5
Union Square West, NYC 10003 In that story, by David Robb
Parrott was already known to the Secret Service for similar threats
to JFK as of 1961, yet here was Bush reporting Parrott to the FBI,
2 hours BEFORE JFK was killed"


And from this website-

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

"Thirty years later the same James Parrott that Bush was accusing is working on Bush's presidential campaign against Bill Clinton."



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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Now that is telling.
You complain about him reporting that he has stated that he wanted to assasinate the president, but later is working on his campaign against Clinton. Wierd. Some people are in cahoots here.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. There has been a group of men who have been pulling the
strings of America... Someday they will die all men die and we shall see their legacy they left!!!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. Of course he was
Don't forget Operation Zapata (he owned an oil company named Zapata), Nixon being SO paranoid about Kennedy after he died, Poppy is the only adult who can't remember where he was (even my own mother as a little girl remembers) and he also wrote a note to some Cuban guy thanking him for his "truth telling". Definietly google Operation Northwoods for more with the Cubans.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. Great post as always Octafish. I wish that you'ld comment on "Catcher in
the Rye" if you have any info. Another recent DU thread addresses the same issues as you do in this post,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and I posed the following, without much of a response:

I wish that you might address the issue of Catcher in the Rye, as this has attracted my curiosity since I first became aware of it about a year ago (on DU, and then my own indpendent research.)

Why would copies of this book be involved in both Lennon's death and Reagan's assasination attempt? Did you know that Bush Sr. quoted Catcher in the Rye as one of his all time favorite books, and he only mentioned three? I've wondered if it is not some sort of a CIA code of some sort.

It's a wonderful book, which is part of its mystery. But IIRC, the author Salinger, who has been reclusive for years, was at one time involved in the CIA. Woodward was recently granted a very rare interview by Salinger.


I've not yet had a great deal of time to read my recent Google results on: "Operation Mockingbird" "Catcher in the Rye" and Bush, but found the following fascinating bit of info, which I had read elsewhere during a previous search. (I've searched CIA and Catcher, Bush and Catcher, and many other combos in the past.)


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22o ...

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005_02_01_rigoro ...

<snip> (found about 3/4's of the way down the page)

"John W. Hinkley Sr, the father of Ronald Reagan's would-be assassin. was president of the board for World Vision. World Vision served, in the words of John Judge's words, as a "penetration force" for the CIA. (The Hinkleys and the Bushes had known each other for decades. In the sixties, when Hinkley's oil company was failing, it was bailed out by Bush's Zapata Oil.) World Vision was financed during the Vietnam War by the Agency and given the use of military equipment. According to Judge, the mission ran the Cuban and Thai refugee camps in the United States. Reportedly there were beatings and abuses, and the camps were staffed by Alpha 66 and Omega 7 people, the virulently anti-Castro assets, who were looking for like-minded anti-communists to recruit for intelligence gathering and counter-insurgency. And as if we haven't had enough already, here's another kick in the head: Mark David Chapman, who eventually shot John Lennon, worked at World Vision's Thai refugee camps in Arkansas. (That both Hinkley and Chapman were fixated upon Catcher in the Rye has suggested to some that the book was used as a trigger for "Manchurian"-like assassin mind control programming.)" (My bold and italic emphasis)









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Athame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Wasn't "Catcher in the Rye" used as such in the Mel Gibson movie
Conspiracy? Had not heard of these other connections. Very interesting...
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Yes! I'm sure the reason was because of these Reagan Lennon
connections, and when I saw the film I wasn't aware of it. I'd love to see it again for that reason. The book that Mel kept compulsively purchasing was Catcher in the Rye, a book which has nothing to do with War or the militia or anything political, but it's just too coincidental that GHW Bush mentioned it as one of his few favorites!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
86. Thanks, WiseButAngrySara!That's fascinating stuff, there...
I agree that certain people with high access to CIA mind-control works have taken advantage of the knowledge for their own benefit. Mark David Chapman and John Hinckley come to mind. Recently, the Washington sniper seemed to call a halt when reminded of being "Like a duck in a noose." Whoa, Nellie.

Here's a good overview with names for our GOOGLEing pleasure (I'll try and find the original later this PM):



Is The Catcher in the Rye a Mechanism of Control?

by Adam Gorightly
(Note: Originally published in Paranoia Magazine 1992)

One night not long ago, while dozing off to sleep, I was stirred from hypnogogia by the radio faintly humming by my head. When I heard the name J.D. Salinger my curiosity was immediately aroused and I turned the volume up. It was a brief news item, relating the event of Salinger's home burning down in New Hampshire. The news announcer described how Salinger and his wife had watched the conflagration helplessly from a distance, as the firefighters futilely battled to save their home. Anyway, this was the last I heard of the story, which isn't surprising given the elusive nature of Salinger, dropping from view as he did in 1965 and becoming a recluse.

Curious as to what Salinger had done over the years since his disappearance from the public eye, I chanced upon the biography In Search of J. D. Salinger by Ian Hamilton. One area of interest I had was Salinger's connections with U.S. Intelligence. My reason for this line of inquiry stemmed from my suspicion that his classic novel The Catcher in the Rye had been used as a "mechanism of control" in the assassination of John Lennon, and the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. If you recall, The Catcher in the Rye was found in the possession of both Hinkley and Chapman after their respective rampages. In fact, when the New York City police apprehended Chapman in the aftermath of Lennon's assassination, he was sitting glassy-eyed and zombified, leaning against the Dakota Building, reading Salinger's book.

When I refer to The Catcher in the Rye as a "mechanism of control" I mean in the sense of a triggering device, which sets off a post-hypnotic suggestion, much like the queen of hearts in Richard Condon's Manchurian Candidate, unleashing within its mind-controlled subjects the command to kill. According to Hamilton's biography, Salinger was under the employ of Defense Intelligence during World War II, serving with the Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC), his time spent mainly in the interrogation of captured Nazis. Later on, toward the end of the war, Salinger was involved in the denazification of Germany.

Denazification could be construed as a code word alluding to the importation of high-level Nazi spies into the highest ranks of the American Intelligence Community under the auspices of Project Paperclip, the top secret operation -- which at the war's end -- smuggled hundreds of Nazis out of Germany. These "reformed" Nazis were then given new identities, in time forming the core of the new U.S. intelligence, defense and aerospace establishments.

According to the late conspiracy researcher Mae Brussell, it was this American/Nazi alliance that reformed the old Office of Strategic Services (OSS) into its new and improved Nazi-ised version: the Central Intelligence Agency. Perhaps, in this instance, Re-nazification would have been a more apropos term. From this point of reference, it would take a rather fanciful leap to entertain the notion that Salinger was part of this diabolical plot; and going even further to suggest that under the auspices of this new American/Nazi Intelligence regime he wrote The Catcher in the Rye as a "mechanism of control" to be employed in CIA mind-control experiments such as Project Artichoke and MK-Ultra.

CONTINUED...

http://www.whale.to/b/gorl.html



As noted in your post, the DUers to ask about this subject are bobthedrummer and Minstrel Boy. They've stuffed my mental library with much important information about MK/ULTRA and many other important things. An example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

PS: Thanks for the kind words, WiseButAngrySara. Sorry this is so late in reply. I've had to run around more than I want over the past few days and have been slow in piling on the subject.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #86
97. Thanks so much! This is fascinating...I had no idea that Salinger might
have been involved in Operation Paperclip. The book though, has nothing to do with anything about the military or even violence. It's a funny, sensitive novel about a young man in angst about the phonies of the adult world. It's pacifist if anything, IIRC. That this should be Bush Sr.'s favorite book is even stranger.

I can't wait to read the DU link, and many thanks for the DUers names.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #97
106. Why I feel sorry (in a way) for Poppy...
Joseph Trento, in "Prelude to Terror: The Rise of the Bush Dynasty, the Rogue CIA, and the Comprising of American Intelligence" (2005) says spymaster Allen Dulles enlisted Poppy to join the CIA in order to better manage Prescott Bush. The story goes: Poppy so hated his old man (maybe for doing business with Hitler, et al) that he thought he would do something patriotic. The reality was, he himself became ensnared in a spider's web of treason. Poppy really may've just been used by others from Harriman to Hoover to LeMay to only who knows.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #106
129. Octafish thanks for the new info on this slime ball

He may have been used but when he realized how much power he could have he coudn't stop!

He became Prescott and all the other BAD apples on the tree.

Then he had the nerve to pick Barb,and the Supreme Bad Apple Tree was complete!

Look at the Bush children, all are rotten, each one gives back nothing but trouble to our world.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
119. You have a good point there -
But, one thing I don't get, have never understood - why the hell would the Bush Cabal kill John Lennon? Reagan I understand because, as someone above stated earlier, he was probably throwing a monkey wrench into Poppy's political ambitions. But, Lennon? I'm not dissing the guy, but he was only a musician, not exactly a key player on the world stage. Very fucking bizarre.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. I just turned on the History Channel, and The JFK Conspiracy Theory
is on and was covered by Peter Jennings (sad to listen to that too).

Another :kick: and Recommended!
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Yeah, I just watched it. Don't waste your time. You'll get pissed.
Edited on Sat Nov-26-05 09:26 PM by leanin_green
Now they're trashing the Kennedy family. Trying to make it appear heroic and such. Occasionally slipping in little digs and inuendo. Another smear piece.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. A pox on America!
Edited on Sat Nov-26-05 08:50 PM by gulfcoastliberal
That's what this fucking criminal dyNASTY family is! They have fucked not only the country but the planet! They must be the evil aliens intent on destroying human life. We need someone to invent the ray-bans so we can get others to see through their patently fraudulent mind-control propaganda.

Before:



After:



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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. Yes, and this nation has been taken hostage ever since.
Poppy has been at the epicenter of death and destruction
for many years.

I have always said that he needs to be arrested and convicted and
even impeached and stripped of all honor bestowed to him in the
past.

But unfortunately this will never be done because our congress
chooses not to.

So there we have it ....the proliferation of corruption.
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Democrat and Republican alike, I'm sad to say.
It's like any murder investigation conducted by any competent police department. Who stands to gain at the removal of the victim? Murder, except those committed in a fit of passion, are always about gain in one form or another. So who stood to gain if JFK is removed. What about his policies or the manner in which he rose to power would cause anyone with the motive to remove him?
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #41
61. No doubt. It is an issue of corruption of power and classism, which
involves members of both parties.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
42. If any of you remember the Oliver Stone "JFK" movie, and I know
you do, remember the woman on the side of the road who said someone was going to kill Kennedy? Does anyone know if that was a fact, or just part of the script?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. Are you talking about the woman that was pushed out of a car that....
...had some hard looking people in it that were heading for Dallas?
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #55
62. Very much a fact. Read "A Farewell to Justice" by Joan Mellen
Incredibly accurate and valid piece of work. Confirms what you have mentioned.

I don't think anyone can contest the conclusions Mellen has made. They are too firmly founded in fact.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #62
77. So many books to read. Did she die before she could tell them
anything else? I don't remember the movie that well.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #77
90. No, Joan Mellen is a professor at Temple University. She met Garrison
in 1969 and they remained good friends until his death in 1992.

Her book was released about a week ago.

From people who are schooled about the JFK assassination and those who have done significant research, they are calling her book groundbreaking. It certainly opened my eyes to some new discoveries and also alot of what I have previously learned.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #90
104. Thanks. Sounds like a book I might like to read, although I'm
sure it will just piss me off - never have gotten over 11-22-63, but I will read it anyway.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #55
76. Yes, that's the one. I wonder if she told them anything else.
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long_green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #42
80. Rose Cheramie was her name I believe
she died just a few years after the assassination. The part where she's lying on the side of the road may have been part of the script.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #80
145. More information on Rose Cheramie
Rose Cheramie: How She Predicted the JFK Assassination

By Jim DiEugenio
On November 20, 1963, Lt. Francis Fruge of the Louisiana State Police received a phone call from Moosa Memorial Hospital in Eunice. A Mrs. Louise Guillory, the hospital administrator told him that there was an accident victim in the emergency ward. Guillory knew that Fruge worked the narcotics detail and she felt that the woman was under the influence of drugs.

Fruge immediately left for the hospital. When he got there he encountered a middle-aged white female sitting down in the waiting room outside emergency. There were no serious injuries; only bruises and abrasions. She was only partly coherent. But Moosa was a private hospital and since the woman seemed bereft of funds, Guillory had called Fruge to see what he could do to help. The woman identified herself to Fruge as Rose Cheramie.

Fruge had no choice at the time except to place Cheramie in the Eunice City Jail. He then went out to attend the Eunice Police Departments Annual Ball. About an hour later a police officer came over to the function and told Fruge that Cheramie was undergoing withdrawal symptoms. Fruge came back and, after recognizing the condition, called a local doctor, Dr. Derouin, from the coroners office. Derouin administered a sedative via syringe to calm her down. The doctor then suggested that she be removed from the jail and taken to the state facility in Jackson. After Fruge agreed, Derouin called the facility at about midnight on the 20th and made arrangements for her delivery there. Afterwards, Fruge called Charity Hospital in Lafayette and ordered an ambulance for the transport to the hospital.

Fruge accompanied Cheramie to the hospital. And, according to his House Select Committee deposition, it was at this point that Rose began to relate her fascinating and astonishing tale. Calmed by the sedative, and according to Fruge, quite lucid, she began to respond to some routine questions with some quite unusual answers. She told him that she was en route from Florida to Dallas with two men who looked Cuban or Italian. The men told her that they were going to kill the president in Dallas in just a few days. Cheramie herself was not part of the plot but apparently the men were also part of a large dope ring with Rose since Cheramies function was as a courier of funds for heroin which was to be dropped off to her by a seaman coming into the port of Galveston. She was to pick up the money for the drugs from a man who was holding her child. It seemed a quite intricate dope ring since she was then to transport the heroin to Mexico. The two men were supposed to accompany her to Mexico but the whole transaction got short-circuited on Highway 190 near Eunice. In the confines of a seedy bar called the Silver Slipper Lounge, Cheramies two friends were met by a third party. Rose left with the two men she came with. But a short distance away from the bar, an argument apparently ensued. And although some have written that she was thrown out of the vehicle and hit by an oncoming car, according to Fruge, Rose said that the argument took place inside the Silver Slipper, and that the two men and the manager, Mac Manual, threw her out. While hitchhiking on the 190, she was hit by a car driven by one Frank Odom. It was Odom who then delivered her to Moosa. As Fruge so memorably recalled to Jonathan Blackmer of the HSCA, Cheramie summed up her itinerary in Dallas in the following manner: "She said she was going to, number one, pick up some money, pick up her baby, and to kill Kennedy." (p. 9 of Fruges 4/18/78 deposition)

At the hospital, Cheramie again predicted the assassination. On November 22nd, several nurses were watching television with Cheramie. According to these witnesses, "during the telecast moments before Kennedy was shot Rose Cheramie stated to them, This is when it is going to happen and at that moment Kennedy was assassinated. The nurses, in turn, told others of Cheramies prognostication." (Memo of Frank Meloche to Louis Ivon, 5/22/67. Although the Dallas motorcade was not broadcast live on the major networks, the nurses were likely referring to the spot reports that circulated through local channels in the vicinity of the trip. Of course, the assassination itself was reported on by network television almost immediately after it happened.) Further, according to a psychiatrist there, Dr. Victor Weiss, Rose "told him that she knew both Ruby and Oswald and had seen them sitting together on occasions at Rubys club." (Ibid., 3/13/67) In fact, Fruge later confirmed the fact that she had worked as a stripper for Ruby. (Louisiana State Police report of 4/4/67.)

Fruge had discounted Cheramies earlier comments to him as drug-induced delusions. Or, as he said to Blackmer, "When she came out with the Kennedy business, I just said, wait a minute, wait a minute, something wrong here somewhere." (Fruge, HSCA deposition, p. 9) He further described her in this manner:

Now, bear in mind that she talked: shed talk for awhile, looks like the shots would have effect on her again and shed go in, you know, shed just get numb, and after awhile shed just start talking again. (Ibid.)

But apparently, at the time of the assassination Cheramie appeared fine. The word spread throughout the hospital that she had predicted Kennedys murder in advance. Dr. Wayne Owen, who had been interning from LSU at the time, later told the Madison Capital Times that he and other interns were told of the plot in advance of the assassination. Amazingly, Cheramie even predicted the role of her former boss Jack Ruby because Owen was quoted as saying that one of the interns was told "that one of the men involved in the plot was a man named Jack Rubinstein." (2/11/68) Owen said that they shrugged it off at the time. But when they learned that Rubinstein was Ruby they grew quite concerned. "We were all assured that something would be done about it by the FBI or someone. Yet we never heard anything." (Ibid.) In fact, Cheramies association with Ruby was also revealed to Dr. Weiss. For in an interview with him after the assassination, Rose revealed that she had worked as a drug courier for Jack Ruby. (Memo of Frank Meloche to Jim Garrison, 2/23/67) In the same memo, there is further elaboration on this important point:

I believe she also mentioned that she worked in the night club for Ruby and that she was forced to go to Florida with another man whom she did not name to pick up a shipment of dope to take back to Dallas, that she didnt want to do this thing but she had a young child and that they would hurt her child if she didnt.

These comments are, of course, very revealing about Rubys role in both an intricate drug smuggling scheme and, at the least, his probable acquaintance with men who either had knowledge of, or were actually involved in, the assassination. This is a major point in this story which we will return to later.

Although Fruge had discounted the Cheramie story on November 20th, the events of the 22nd made him a believer. Right after JFKs murder, Fruge "called that hospital up in Jackson and told them by no way in the world to turn her loose until I could get my hands on her." (Fruges HSCA deposition, p. 12.) So on November 25th, Fruge journeyed up to Jackson again to talk to Cheramie. This time he conducted a much more in-depth interview. Fruge found out that Cheramie had been traveling with the two men from Miami. He also found that the men seemed to be a part of the conspiracy rather than to be just aware of it. After the assassination, they were supposed to stop by a home in Dallas to pick up both around eight thousand dollars plus Roses baby. From there Cheramie was supposed to check into the Rice Hotel in Houston under an assumed name. Houston is in close proximity to Galveston, the town from which the drugs were coming in from. From Houston, once the transaction was completed, the trio were headed for Mexico.

How reliable a witness was Cheramie? Extermely. Fruge decided to have the drug deal aspect of her story checked out by the state troopers and U. S. Customs. The officers confirmed the name of the seaman on board the correct ship coming into Galveston. The Customs people checked the Rice Hotel and the reservations had been made for her under an assumed name. The contact who had the money and her baby was checked and his name showed that he was an underworld, suspected narcotics dealer. Fruge checked Cheramies baggage and found that one box had baby clothes and shoes inside.

Fruge flew Cheramie from Louisiana to Houston on Tuesday, the 26th. In the back seat of the small Sesna 180, a newspaper was lying between them. One of the headlines read to the effect that "investigators or something had not been able to establish a relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald." (Fruges HSCA deposition p. 19) When Cheramie read this headline, she started to giggle. She then added, "Them two queer sons-of-a-bitches. Theyve been shacking up for years." (Ibid.) She added that she knew this to be true from her experience of working for Ruby. Fruge then had his superior call up Captain Will Fritz of the Dallas Police to relay what an important witness Cheramie could be in his investigation. Fruge related what followed next:

Colonel Morgan called Captain Fritz up from Dallas and told him what we had, the information that we had, that we had a person that had given us this information. And of course there again it was an old friend, and there was a little conversation. But anyway, when Colonel Morgan hung up, he turned around and told us they dont want her. Theyre not interested.

Fruge then asked Cheramie if she wished to try telling her tale to the FBI. She declined. She did not wish to involve herself further. With this, the Cheramie investigation was now halted. Rose was released and Fruge went back to Louisiana. So, just four days after the assassination, with an extremely and provably credible witness alive, with her potentially explosive testimony able to be checked out, the Cheramie testimony was now escorted out to pasture. Eyewitness testimony that Ruby knew Oswald, that Ruby was somehow involved in an international drug circle, that two Latins were aware of and perhaps involved in a plot to kill Kennedy, and that Ruby probably knew the men; this incredible leadthe type investigators pine forwas being shunted aside by Fritz. It would stay offstage until Jim Garrison began to poke into the Kennedy case years later.

...

The rest of this article can be found in The Assassinations, edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease.



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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
43. If you serve a noble cause, there is no need to hide in shadows.
Truman created the Secret Police in 1947 and lived long enough to see it corrupt the nation. After JFK's death he wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post and expressed regret over ever forming the agency...

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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #43
60. Absolutely. He and Eisenhower both had been betrayed by those agencies.
They realized the monster that had been created through the secrecy that promoted corruption, and wanted to bring notice to the abuse of power.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. kick
I wonder if any of the tentacles have been cut off or are in danger?
They seem to slide by no matter what comes up.
:dem:
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
47. This site has a photo of a guy in Dallas in 1963 that looks exactly like..
Edited on Sat Nov-26-05 10:45 PM by Media_Lies_Daily
...GHWB...compare that photo to the one beside it containing GHWB.

The rest of this particular webpage is pretty interesting.

Geez...forgot the link:

<http://home.earthlink.net/~twainable/id18.html >
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #47
70. It really does look like him.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #70
74. That's the Photo!
Huh... interesting. It really does look "exactly" like Poppy now, doesn't it.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #74
79. I saw this photo a while back and couldn't get over the
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 10:06 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
resemblence. I can't say that I am 100% sure that it is him after I enlarged the photo to see this person's face, it was too blurry...but the way that person is standing, the body language and his stature really looks like Poppa Bush to me.

I a have post further down in this thread to the video JFKII: The Bush Connection, and it gives an incredibly compelling case that Bush Sr.'s hands are filthy with the blood of JFK. The Internet connection has been a bit cantakerous. I personally have the DVD and as well as access to it through Alex Jones' website, PrisonPlanet.tv. I am a subscriber and get all of his online videos through that subscription. It really is a must see.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
50. Too bad we can't convice Clinton that his new buddy is
an assassin. Or, maybe he knows. Could he be following the adage to keep your friends close and your enemies closer?
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #50
63. Or he had something on him during his stint as govenor. . .
and all those military cargo planes that kept arriving from Central America into Arkansas. Information is power is another axiom of the day. Probably traded it in for a place at the table. Just listen to Hillary now, if you have any doubt. They know what side their bread is buttered.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
52. The whole damn cabul, a bunch of serial killers!
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
57. Sure.. AND he was involved in the attempt on Ronnie Raygun's life..
.. being business friends with the Hinkleys and all.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
69. VIDEO online, JFKII: The Bush Connection, that discusses this
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 07:42 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
all in a lot of detail, and makes an excellent case for Poppa Bush's involvement.

http://www.internetbroadcasting.com/JFKII_the_bush/jfk_...

you can also right click in video and play in Real Player, directly.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
71. Isn't there a Photo Here on DU of Poppy in Dallas
Edited on Sun Nov-27-05 09:27 AM by AuntiBush
just moments after the shooting? Don't know how to search for it in DU archives, but I'm certain I seen it here some months back.

Growing-up, my family was adamant Poppy had something to do with the shooting of JRK, his brother and all the other players.

The evidence is overwhelming that there was more then 1 shooter from that "grassy knoll." Like evidence, didn't many witnesses come-up dead or missing as well? Think they did, if my history-memory is correct.

Anyone have links to online info?

Watched the History Channel's version last night. Very good, but left out a few things.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. See post #47 and/or #70
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
78. Octafish, please respond to post #31! I'm so curious as to your opinion
on the link between The Catcher in the Rye and the Hinckley's, Chapman, and World Vision. It all leads to Bush Sr. Too many coincidences.

Thanks!
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
82. The Carlyle Group
Approximately when was that little entity created? about the same time, by Poppy, perhaps? or before?

This is scary shit. Thanks Octafish for your investigation.
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doodie Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Hi
Anyone read the book "Harvey and Lee" by John Armstrong? Great research on two Oswald's.
The whole JFK thing has so many twist and turns it's crazy. You could make two more JFK movies and still have more information to give. The powers that be all wanted him dead: CIA, Mob, Fed Reserve, Big Oil, Cubans, FBI, Military Ind. Complex, the Bushes, the Right Wing, & who ever else you can think of. He was a big threat to all of their power. Don't forget about Prescott's involvement with the Nazi's during WWII. Prescott's, Poppy's, & W's membership in the "Skull & Bones" along with other Bush family members is interesting, read about the "Skull & Bones" and he says hes a man of the lord...
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #84
101. Welcome to DU, doodie!
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #82
158. Carlyle
"Carlyle was founded in 1987 by Stephen L. Norris William E. Conway, Jr., Daniel A. D'Aniello, and David M. Rubenstein..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Group

there a documentary out there: "The Iron Triagle"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.ht...

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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
83. beam me back up
Beef-eater to planet Z, photo-sensors on, ready for uplift.

He looks like one of those guys in black. Spooky.

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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
87. I shook hands with JFK and the clan in 1958 as a wee lad.
Thank U Prof. Fish for all your work.

Simply put = The rise of family bush
The fall of family Kennedy

Criminals hiding in plane sight..This should be a golden opprotunity to arrest the biggest names in international crimes...

This is the stuff that Law Enfocrment could regain their reputation and self esteeem upon..Complete corruption of 3 branches of govt by corporat interest...


"Tick tock the clock on the wall.
No wonder we're losing time." lyrics by Neal Young


http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMes...

The Kennedy curse.11/22/63 the Nazi coup's began..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JFK BK MLK
Many mysterious plane crashes and suicides.

11/00
9/11/01
3/11/04
11/02/04
7/07/05
11/09/05

All are coups by these Nazi controllers.
all designed to divide and conquer while the same criminal syndicates move on to their next crimes.
Loooting the treasury of EVERY nation on this planet and letting the US taxpayer pay for their very own demise
is their evolving agenda.

I pause to remeber cuz I will NEVER forget 11/22/63 when it began.

"The Kennedy Curse
Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. died in 1944 when his U.S. Army bomber heavily laden with explosives blew up over the English Channel.
Kathleen Kennedy died in a plane crash in 1948. (Her husband, William John Robert Cavendish, the Marquess of Hartington, was killed in World War II.
Patrick Kennedy, son of the president, was born prematurely in 1963 and died two days later.
President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas in 1963, three months after the death of Patrick.
Sen. Robert F. Kennedy of New York, former U.S. attorney general, was assassinated immediately after winning the California Democratic presidential primary in 1968.
David Kennedy, son of RFK, died of a drug overdose in 1984.
Michael Kennedy, another of RFK's sons, died in a 1997 skiing accident in Aspen, Colo.
In July 1999, John F. Kennedy Jr. dies when his Piper Saratoga aircraft crashed in the ocean near Martha's Vineyard. Also killed in the crash are his wife and sister-in-law.
The family has also suffered two serious automobile accidents: Edward Kennedy's 1969 Chappaquiddick accident, and a 1973 accident involving RFK's son Joseph that left a female passenger paralyzed for life."


www.sptimes.com/jfkjr/tragedies.shtml
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #87
125. I've even heard that Guido Fawkes was somehow involved...
(n/t)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. Isn't that what J Edgar Hoover believed?
(n/t)
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
93. From the Demopedia....Zapata
Zapata bought United Fruit had a beef with Castro....

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Za...

This goes to motive.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. "All SEC filings of Zapata between 1960 and 1966 were sadly destroyed
in 1981."

Bush sold his shares in the company in 1966.

Speaks for itself.
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
96. Surely someone should at least research James Parrot & Mss Fawley & Smith
???

I think I have seen these documents before... surely they have already been written about.

Google leads to this thread..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
100. thank you Octafish and others who contribute to this body of knowledge. I
Have been here just over a year and the information I have gained, as wel as forwarded is unbelievable. I salute your efforts in exposing the truth.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. I feel the same-a BIG THANKS from me too!
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MarsThe Cat Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
105. it's HIS world...
we just live in it.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-05 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
110. On that fateful day, the corporacrats violated a democratic nation,...
,...and took a vile leap towards a fascist one. They've been tearing down our country and exploiting the world, ever since.

When will these tyrants wrapped in "American values" be revealed for the evil scum they are? They have no honor or integrity or concern for the people of this nation or the health of democracy: NONE.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
127. A kick for the truth!
:kick:

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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
131. Is this NEW info? why is this being brought up now?
GHWB has been suspected of being in Dallas when JFK was killed for a long time.

BTW, Tylor, Texas, according to the Rand-McNally Road atlas, is 98 miles from Dallas. That usually means distance from city center to city center.

I'm also 99.9% sure I know were the fatal shot came from, and it wasn't from Oswald or the Grassy Knoll.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #131
139. "why is this being brought up now?"
I'm guessing just to try to spread awareness.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #131
140. This will be new to many people.
And we just passed the anniversary of the murder of JFK.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #131
141. The driver?
n/t
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
134. Has there ever been an investigation of the driver of the president's car?
It seems clear in the Zapruder film that he slows down to a near halt as for someone to get the best 'shot' at the president.

I have not heard much discussion on this person, although it's clear after watching the film (over and over again), he slowed the car to almost a halt AFTER Kennedy was shot as if waiting for the final and most deadly blow to happen.

???
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
138. Nixon was in Dallas the morning of the assassination
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
146. Hey Octafish, any more info on whether this document was real or a hoax?
I know you and Merlin had your doubts on this thread you started, so I was wondering if you have any more recent info on that document proving Oswald was CIA:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #146
150. I still want to believe, but I have my doubts...
Here's a NAARA document with a similar ID number (CO-2-034030 versus CO-2-34,030):

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/master_med_s...

This leads me to think someone has done a good job of tying the real to the imaginary.

OTOH: What some of the voices on the Internets are saying:

http://mccone-rowley.blogspot.com /

PS: Want to say your stuff is tops, robertpaulsen. I'm up to my ear goggles with work this week, but I promise to ive attention to the BFEE - Malaysia - Pakistan - WTC angle. I also appreciate that you give a damn.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #150
162. Thanks Octafish. Maybe it's like the W AWOL forgery Rather got.
The info seems accurate, but the absence of that seal makes me think it's propaganda designed to perpetuate the 40+ year cover-up.

Thanks for the links! :yourock:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #146
159. Hey there robertpaulsen
:hi:
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #159
163. Hi seemslikeadream!
:hi:

Let me know what you think of my research on post 137. Have you seen that before?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
147. It HAD to be an 'INSIDE JOB' by elements of the U.S. Government.
Short cut: Scroll down to the last link -- it opens a page with a Quicktime Movie taken at Love Field. The movie shows your government at work.

Who had the power to change the motorcade route from e straight out of town to pass directly in front of Texas School Book Depository?



Who had the power to get Oswald a job in the Texas School Book Depository?

Who had the power to change the motorcade route to make a 90-degree right-hand turn?

Who had the power to allow the motorcade to slow down to a crawl in front of the Texas School Book Depository?

Why was the bullet proof top left off?

Why were all the Secret Service agents on the following car?



SEE FOR YOURSELF: Why was this Secret Service ordered off the trailing vehicle at Love Field?

http://www.jfklancer.com/SSoffcar.html

Proof the SS was involved means the U.S. Government was involved, too.

PS: I want to thank everyone who has replied to this posting. Whether you agree with me or not, I appreciate you all giving a damn.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #147
149. AND, who had the power to stack the Warren Commission?
n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #149
151. Wink Wink
A conspiratorial wink if there ever was one:



Learn why that congressman is winking:

http://jameshudnall.com/archives/001569.html
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. Well that's interesting. A picture is worth 1000 words.
That could be many different things.

Could be what my initial reaction was that this was mano a mano congratulatory which is pretty sickening to comprehend.

However, considering that the execution of Kennedy was premeditatively thought out down to very significant and minute detail, a really conspiratorial mind might conclude the "photographer" and the Congressman were instructed to get that shot in. One more grenade to throw into the confusion punchbowl.

Who knows?

It does appear as if the Congressmen has made a point to get Johnson's attention.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #147
164. That Right and the Left turns are against SS rules you know
I think the rule is that they are not supposed to take a route that forces the car to sow down to below 30 MPH.

Did you ever see a close up of the POST Magazine photo of, what looks like Oswald in the doorway of the School Book depository?

It's on a site I don't think we are supposed to link to, but I could PM you with the link if interested.






This is a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald taken shortly after his arrest. Note the clear similarity in both appearance and dress to the man in the schoolbook depository doorway in the Altgen's photo.

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
152. That;s the day the RW began the takeover of the country
and pretty much when the US as a country peaked out and has been sliding away ever since.

The entire TX RW was implicated - the Hunt brothers, GHWB, Murchison, the CIA.

For me, I think that, like the hijacked elections, most Americans simply refuse to believe what's in fron tof their faces, because it's too horrible to accept.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #152
154. And if Americans cannot face the truth, than we cannot change our future.
Like the Germans, perhaps this nation will allow our apathy and arrogance to ruin us.

Thats the hard reality.

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
155. they killed 2 viable presidential candidates and 1 president Kennedy
my opinion.
i have no proof.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #155
156. Yes they did. They killed leadership which was giving a positive vision
for the future of America. The Kennedys and King and others saw trouble ahead with staying the same War driven/MIC path, and was trying to steer us away from a direction that is the same direction killing us today.

People try vehemently to silence that truth. But the proof of the positives things being done during Kennedy's term and because of individuals like MLK were unmistakable.
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