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UPDATE ON MY PLAME/WILSON/CIA STORY - IMPORTANT

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:49 PM
Original message
UPDATE ON MY PLAME/WILSON/CIA STORY - IMPORTANT
I got Ray McGovern to go on the record.

===

Karl Rove, senior political advisor to George W. Bush, is a very powerful man. That is not to say he has never been in trouble. Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush Sr. campaign for trashing Robert Mosbacher, Jr., who was the chief fundraiser for the campaign and an avowed Bush loyalist. Rove accomplished this trashing of Mosbacher by planting a negative story with columnist Bob Novak. The campaign figured out that Karl had done the dirty deed, and he was given his walking papers.

Demonstrably, Rove is back in the saddle again. The January 2003 edition of Esquire magazine carried an article by Ron Suskind which quoted comments from John DiIulio, a domestic policy advisor to the White House who had just retired from his post. On October 24, DiIulio had sent a letter to Suskind describing what he had seen while working for the Bush administration. The meat of the letter described an administration far, far more interested in raw political triangulation and ruthless spin than in actual policy and government functionality. Some excerpts from DiIulio's letter:

<blockquote>"Some are inclined to blame the high political-to-policy ratios of this administration on Karl Rove...some staff members, senior and junior, are awed and cowed by Karl's real or perceived powers. They self-censor lots for fear of upsetting him, and, in turn, few of the president's top people routinely tell the president what they really think if they think that Karl will be brought up short in the bargain. Karl is enormously powerful, maybe the single most powerful person in the modern, post-Hoover era ever to occupy a political advisor post near the Oval Office."</blockquote>

Even a casual political observer would have trouble missing the fact that this is one of the sharpest political outfits ever to reside in the Oval Office. Bush's team is a unified wall, cemented to their message-of-the-day, and they have done very well for themselves because of this. All of this can be laid at the feet of Karl Rove, the senior political advisor to George W. Bush. According to DiIulio, the preeminence of political considerations within this administration is so complete that any and all policy considerations or contemplation of actual issues are not so much in the back seat as they are in the trunk below the spare tire and the jack. This, again, can be laid at the feet of Mr. Rove.

All of Washington and the country has been buzzing for the last few days over a report that the CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate the White House regarding a matter of important national security. The wife of a former ambassador named Joseph Wilson, it has been alleged, was 'outed' as an active CIA agent to columnist Robert Novak by this White House in an act of political revenge.

Joseph Wilson was the man dispatched to Niger in February of 2002 by the CIA, after Vice President Dick Cheney asked CIA to figure out whether there was any substance to the charge that Iraq was attempting to procure uranium "yellow cake" from that nation for the purpose of starting a nuclear weapons program. Ambassador Wilson went, investigated, and returned eight days later to state flatly that the evidence was garbage. He has claimed since that his analysis was one of three intelligence reports debunking the Niger story. Ambassador Wilson told this to Cheney's office, the CIA, the State Department, and the National Security Council. Despite the fact that Wilson made it clear that these allegations were untrue - it was revealed that the 'evidence' to support the Niger uranium charge was a pile of crudely forged documents - George W. Bush used the Niger uranium evidence dramatically in his 2003 State of the Union address.

In July, Ambassador Wilson went very public, criticizing the White House for using evidence to support war that they knew was patently false. One week later, Robert Novak reported that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA operative. As it turns out, two senior White House officials cold-called six different journalists and informed them of Valerie Plame's status as a CIA agent, according to an anonymous administration official quoted by the Washington Post. None of the journalists ran the story. That same administration official was quoted about these revelations as saying, "Clearly, it was meant purely and simply for revenge." Joseph Wilson likewise charges that this act was done as an act of revenge for his vocal criticism of George W. Bush and the administration's actions leading up to the Iraq war. Specifically, he views Karl Rove as being possibly involved in, or at least condoning, the cutting down of his wife.

The facts of this story are singularly grotesque. Taken at the top layer, you have a White House that appears perfectly willing to go after the family members of its critics. Valerie Plame's career is destroyed, period. The act itself displays a level of viciousness that is dangerous to the functioning of this, or any, democracy.

Peel the second layer and you discover the rank illegality of it all. Section 421 of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 reads as follows:

<blockquote>"Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."</blockquote>

The third layer is where the darkness truly lurks, and where the deadly importance of this situation lies. Valerie Plame was not simply an analyst or a data cruncher. She was an operative running a network dedicated to tracking any person or nation that might try to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorists. That sentence deserves to be written twice. She was an operative running a network dedicated to tracking any person or nation that might try to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.

The Bush administration pushed very hard the idea that America is in danger from WMDs being placed into the hands of terrorists. This was one of the central arguments behind the war in Iraq. Yet in order to protect Bush's political standing, a couple of "administration officials" blew Valerie Plame, and by proxy her network, completely out of the water in an attempt to shut her husband up. In short, in order to protect Bush from the ramifications of using fake evidence to support his war, this White House destroyed an intelligence network that was protecting us from the threat posed by chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons.

We are less safe now that Valerie Plame is no longer performing this vital task, and the members of her network are in mortal danger of being revealed and destroyed. Beyond that, we are facing a level of hypocrisy that shatters any and all previously known boundaries. This administration ginned up a war in Iraq based upon manufactured evidence and wildly overstated threats, all of which was painted over with rhetoric about defending the country from terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. The fate of Valerie Plame, and her network, shows without doubt that the moral standing of this administration is as empty as Saddam Hussein's WMD cache.

In Ambassador Wilson's words, "Naming her this way would have compromised every operation, every relationship, every network with which she had been associated in her entire career. This is the stuff of Kim Philby and Aldrich Ames."

The current spin from administration defenders within and without the mainstream media is that Valerie Plame was only an analyst, and not an operative. This, somehow, is supposed to lessen the blow of an administration willing to attack the families of its critics. Yet the characterization of Plame as an analyst is factually incorrect. For one, Robert Novak himself indicated as much in the original report that birthed this scandal. Wilson never worked for the CIA, wrote Novak, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction.

Ray McGovern, who was for 27-years a senior analyst for the CIA, further confirms the status of Plame within the CIA. I know Joseph Wilson well enough to know, said McGovern in a telephone conversation we had today, that his wife was in fact a deep cover operative running a network of informants on what is supposedly this administrations first-priority issue: Weapons of mass destruction.

McGovern further elaborated on the damage done when such an agent has their cover blown. This causes a great deal of damage, said McGovern. These kinds of networks take ten years to develop. The reason why they operate under deep cover is that the only people who have access to the kind of data we need cannot be associated in any way with the American intelligence community. Our operatives live a lie to maintain these networks, and do so out of patriotism. When they get blown, the operatives themselves are in physical danger. The people they recruit are also in physical danger, because foreign intelligence services can make the connections and find them. Operatives like Valerie Plame are real patriots.


Mr. Rove has done this kind of thing before, specifically using Robert Novak in that one notable attempt to cut down Mosbacher. Rove is a disciple of the undisputed heavyweight champion of political assassins, Lee Atwater, and has often reached into a deep bag of dirty tricks to accomplish his political ends. He knows no ideology beyond power, and has no bones about using it to wreak havoc on anyone who gets in his crosshairs. The Esquire article about DiIulio finds him recounting a singular Rove moment, as he overheard a conversation happening in another room: "Inside, Rove was talking to an aide about some political stratagem in some state that had gone awry and a political operative who had displeased him. I paid it no mind and reviewed a jotted list of questions I hoped to ask. But after a moment, it was like ignoring a tornado flinging parked cars. 'We will fuck him. Do you hear me? We will fuck him. We will ruin him. Like no one has ever fucked him!'"

Guess who was doing the cursing and threatening.

One last bit of inside baseball. When the Niger scandal erupted, the Bush administration went out of its way to blame the CIA for the mess, despite the fact that the CIA, along with the entire intelligence community, had been cut out of the loop by Don Rumsfeld's Office of Special Plans. The OSP, and its pet Iraqi Ahmad Chalabi, became the source for all of the information regarding Iraq's weapons capabilities, and a number of intelligence insiders have publicly blamed that group for the preponderance of highly erroneous data about Iraq. For the Bush administration to completely usurp the CIA by depending solely on data manufactured by the Office of Special Plans, and then to turn around and blame CIA when the OSPs data did not turn out to be true, is as insane as it is laughable. Yet this is what they have done. The CIA's calling for this investigation is nothing more or less than the Agency defending itself, proving out the oft-repeated warning that one scapegoats the CIA at their mortal peril.

Also, the fact that this data came to the Washington post from a White House official means that another Deep Throat may have just been born.

The White House has denied the allegation, and promises a full investigation. A great many people find it laughable to believe this White House is capable of investigating itself, and are demanding an independent investigation. A quick look at the White House telephone logs will reveal who called whom, and when. It may well be the case that Rove was not involved; there are several administration officials - Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rice, Card - along with a constellation of administration associates and media mouthpieces, who had a vested interest in shutting Ambassador Wilson's mouth. The White House phone logs will be revelatory. If this administration fails to hand those logs over, they will stand in taint of high treason.

J'accuse.
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. if you hold off another 2 days
you'll have enough for your next book! :)
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, wow!
Put it to them, Will Pitt. Your piece should run on all the front pages. I hope you get picked up all over the place.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Wow is right! I had questions about this affair, but
Will's article answered every one of them for me, before I even asked them!
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ignatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
92. Great work, Will. Watching this administration implode over their
pile of lies and deceit is a long awaited pleasure.

KUDOS!!!
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cool Will
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 04:54 PM by realFedUp
Send this one out now.
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MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great article, Will. On CNN Wolfie's show, CNN reporter
David Ensor was specifically asked by wolfie if Plame was an analyst or operative. Ensor said his sources confirm she is an operative with agents. Wolfie asked Ensor because on Crossfire, Novak said she was an analyst. So Wolfie and Ensor repudiated what Novak said.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
73. Yup, MoonandSun, I saw Ensor with Wolfie, too! Right after
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 09:33 PM by Gloria
"Crossfire" with Novak saying that he was hearing that she was only an "analyst" Ensor completely debunked this!! Novak kept on saying on Crossfire that he was hearing she was an analyst...trying to get off the hook.

When Ensor said his sources said she was an operative, I nearly fell off my chair. I had expected a gloss over....
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Go get 'em Will...
Mind if I send it around?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Do me a favor
and wait until it is a truthout link (few hours from now). I may tweak it again between now and then. Thanks!
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Can you update us when it's up...
I will certainly wait until that time, but I think this is important to get around.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:59 PM
Original message
Watch this thread roundabout 8pm
I'll put it here.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Even before I read...Is it Plame or Palme?
I could have been looking askew but I though it was Palme?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Google says 'Plame'
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
43. WOW, yes I see..I do not know my first source..but something
told me Palme...I guess it's that 'human brain disfunction'..if the first and last letter is the same we skip the middle letters...my first exposure was Palme? and that is what i saw everytime I looked?...saw no disconnect??? Thanks...hopefully will make me more aware in the futre...there are a few sources with Palme...??? go figure?
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J B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hey, Will...
I dunno if this came in your mind like it did to mine, but what I thought of was Rice's comment about how she didn't want a mushroom cloud in an American city (NYC?) being the first definitive proof of Saddam's WMD.

And that Plame was involved in preventing that mushroom cloud from taking place.

Other than that, I think you're doing pretty well. You're still a heck of a wordy writer, but it works for you :)
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. yeah thats prime beef
the wmd angle is a strong one, that the admin was willing to compromise ongoing investigations into wmd's to enact a little political revenge
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. admin playas are also spinning
that it was common knowledge that she was a CIA operative, a fact that your source seems to confirm(?) Did Mr McGovern give you any indication as to how well known her position was?
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J B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Two angles on that.
A) She could have been well known AMONG PEOPLE WITH THE PROPER CLEARANCE.

B) If her position was common knowledge to people who did NOT have the proper clearance, then how did that happen and who's responsible?

Oh, and...

C) If it was common knowledge who she was behind closed doors but not to the public, isn't leaking (or publishing...) her name specifically for the purpose of exposing her position as a covert operative, willfully jeopardizing national security just to knock an ex-ambassador down a few pegs?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. And another angle:
D) How the hell could she even BE an operative if she were widely known as one?
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OldSoldier Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #46
87. Well, that's the point
You can't be a covert if everyone knows who you are, and now everyone knows who Valerie Plame is.

The Soviets had a couple of ways of dealing with coverts who got blown by someone else. They'd either give them plastic surgery and retrain them for a new area, or give them jobs at headquarters or the training school. (They'd also find the person who fucked their operative over and cremate them while they were still alive. They even had a film of this being done to someone, and you got to see it before you joined up, as a motivational tool.) Ms. Plame, I fear, will have to eke out a meager existence making infomercials and appearing on very-late-night talk shows.
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huckleberry Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. one suggestion
Will -

Can you please explain in your article why the White House wanted to out Wilson's wife? I heard it was because they wanted to discount Wilson's trip to Niger by saying that his wife suggested he make the trip. I know Wilson said that it was meant to intimidate others but I think it was also to discount Wilson's credibility.

Huck
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. Keep digging Will
We have to keep this story out there. They are trying to downplay the importance of Valerie Plame's role and contacts. She was an important operative with a very important job and they blew that completely. And it was all done as political pay back.

Sonia
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Step lightly Will
this story could go anywhere...We know that Rove, tutored by Lee Atwater, will not go down easy. Novak is trying to defend the administration (see: Crossfire 9/29), and even Wilson himself has done a bit of backpeddling. So go get the fuckers but keep your eyes open. These are dangerous times. The McGovern additions are gooood.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this
what the Rosenbergs were executed for ?
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. They *supposedly* sold atom bomb secrets to the Soviet Union.
Different thing, I think.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. I think I heard that the reason they were executed rather than
life in prison was because they gave up names of our agents.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I get it. Quite possibly so. n/t
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. Awesome....
Amazing work, Will!!!

:kick:
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. Regardless of the political ramifications...
... this was a dangerous and downright shitty thing to do! The "informants" she deals with on a regular basis, as well as the people they deal with, are dangerous.

If I were Joe Wilson, I'd be tempted to smack the leaker in the nose for putting my wife in harms way!!!
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. a question Will
From your post:

"As it turns out, two senior White House officials cold-called six different journalists and informed them of Valerie Plame's status as a CIA agent, according to an anonymous administration official quoted by the Washington Post."

Do you (or anyone) know who the six journalists and two senior White House officials are?

Have any of the six journalists come forward?

(ok, two questions)
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. found this on another thread here
"We have Tom Brokaw on record as saying that Andrea Mitchell was called and that they decided not to disclose Valerie's name. So I guess that means Brokaw and Mitchell both know who at the WH was shopping the story."
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. Andrea Mitchell admits she was approached , but refuses
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 05:20 PM by Kerryfan
to say by whom. She did not go with it. She said this on Imus this morning, but I didn't see it.
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Cappurr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great job
And all of us who made suggestions want our credit :evilgrin:

And, of course, we will be expecting a check in the mail. :bounce:
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. a couple of little things
In this sentence -
I know Joseph Wilson well enough to know, said McGovern in a telephone conversation we had today, that his wife was in fact a deep cover operative running a network of informants on what is supposedly this administrations first-priority issue: Weapons of mass destruction.
- should weapons be capitalized there?

Also, the part about the White House outing her for political reasons - the whole "alleged" thing - still reads weird.

Damn fine work honey.

DV
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for the update and clarification of
a most-important breaking story. :thumbsup:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. Is Novak implicating himself
by lying about Plame? I'm not a lawyer, but it seems that if he indeed knew she was an undercover agent and he's now claiming she's just analyst, he's obstructing.. uhm.. something? or at least he's now an accessory to the cover-up of the crime.

These players are in such an obvious damage control mode, it's just laughable. Hypothetical laughter at least.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. He could very well be claiming ignorance
of the important position Plame held with the CIA because he KNOWS the caca is about to hit the fan bigtime! One has to wonder if Novak realized by naming Plame publicly, it destroyed an intelligence operation that protected Americans from WMD proliferation.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. Very nice Will,
glad you got the additional info from McGovern!! These shits have been surfing on the crest of American's fears and most still believe this admin is protecting them, like they really give a flying f*ck!! If this all comes out the way it should, with the truth, it should expose the hypocracy.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. Excellent, WillPitt! Can't wait till TruthOut gets it up on site
:yourock: It's going out to EVERYBODY!!! :yourock:


:kick: :kick: :kick:
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. No bones
No criticism here except that in the middle you refer to Rove "having no bones" about doing something nefarious, and the expression is "to make no bones" not "to have no bones."
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Okay. Three words you all finally see me type:
BUSH IS TOAST.

This time, even I believe it. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bravo!
A 27 year senior analyst with the CIA confirms Plame's undercover position within the agency. Wow! Thanks Will!
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
33. Bravo Will...
I hope Ray McGovern appears on CSPAN or another forum soon, I'd like to hear more from him.

Just one observation FWIW. Would it be better to move up in importance the fact that by compromising Plame, BushCo. has virtually abetted the "terrorists" by destroying her cover and subsequent network. This is the red meat I haven't heard anyone hop on yet.

We know that what Novak printed was damaging and the CIA wouldn't go this far if there wasn't other problems, but this story has to get to the "sexy" level where people can "feel it"...by saying Plame's work was to protect Homeland Security (buzzword)and that this regime put political expediency over YOUR safety.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
70. Good point! Are you with US, Mr. Bush, or are you with the terrorists?
Will you continue to protect the traitor in your White House?
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Loyal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. I love it
Keep up the good work Will! I love reading it!
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
37. Thanks for this, Will . . . Really puts the screws to BushCo.
One question--Is Novak under any legal threat for reporting the outing of Plame? I mean this really wasn't news; it was like Fox publishing Tucker Carlson's phone number (I love watching right wingers canniblize themselves, heh)

Obviously, the White House officials broke the law, but what about the messanger who made sure the information was widely known? Seems like he would be exposed to some degree as well . . .

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. No, he's in the clear
I forget the details, but reporters are cleared from this kind of stuff.
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TennesseeWalker Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
57. Part of me wants to believe Novak wanted the leak to be exposed.
I guess I still want to believe the best of everyone. Novak opposed the war, and exposing the Lying Liars for what they are (vicious, criminial evildoers) would be a good hit from a paleo-conservative.

However, people may have died from this info being leaked. I really am disappointed in Bob, because this seems like very poor judgement.

Good God, they want to talk poorly about Clinton! This is the worst administration we've EVER had....what next?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. If he wanted it to come to this
He'd have been a bit less of a jackass about it on Crossfire today. Then again...
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dkamin Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
96. Novak
in a normal (non-political campaign), the US attorney would subpoena Novak for any records he might have, and subpoena him for a deposition. Unless Novak took the Fifth Amendment, he would have to testify under oath. If he refused to answer, he would go to jail for contempt.

since this is a republican reporter, with important republican figures at risk, being investigated by an intensely partisan republican AG, i would guess that the above is not going to happen.

if i were a republican (and therefore, evil and hypocritical), i would absolutely not allow an independent counsel in this circumstance. this white house has done way too much shady stuff that they don't want coming out, and they know the dems are itching to get back at them for the ken starr mockery of justice.

an independent counsel investigating bush would make clinton look like a boy scout. hell, it would probably make nixon look like a boy scout.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
39. WOW...truly a story that grabs you and will not let you go...grammer..ug
"...to shut her husband up." You know the rule...never end a sentense with a proposition. "..to shut up her husband."

And I think...in the 3rd to the last paragraph when you say "...Iraqi Amhad Chalabi.."...I think you need a comma between "...Iraqi, Ahmad Chalabi.."?

I look forward to reading this article in 'Truthout'...

You are a true Patriot and I am a person that can say 'I knew him when'...and that gives me great pride!
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. WOW!
One of your best. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I'm printing this out once it's up at truthout. :yourock:
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
44. One thing-If you don't give any instances of Atwater's political
machinations, most people won't know who you are talking about. (Such is the recollection ability of Americans and many of them never followed politics until now.)So, can you either give a pithy example or leave Atwater out of it?

gotta sign up for your site again. Had to change my "handle" for e-mail because of hacking.So I have been suffering from news and opinion blackout until my computer got fixed.

GREAT JOB!!
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
45. glad you got Ray McGovern
just the right touch to make this an article that will be hard to ignore :toast:

peace
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Its a powerful refutation and debunking of Novak's sappy claims today
Good work Will! :thumbsup:
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
47. Nailed it, Will!! When does the film "All the Chimp's Men" get made?
Jaw dropping stuff!
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
48. Damn, Will!!! GREAT WORK man!!! I may disagree with you on Dean and Kerry
but this is GREAT!!!

This is national news!!!

It will BREAK and you will be there, pal.

Much as I hate to say it: I really like you sometimes
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
50. this is the best analysis i've read
and I've been reading them all! so damn good!

say hello to camus and orwell, will. you're in their class.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
51. Wow! Over the center field fence!
Get it out there fast!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
52. I'm so Thankful to the Patriots publicly speaking out
Thank You ...I'm crying ..Fuck ..When you work so
hard at something , and see it come to fruit , well

Thank You for loving America

and Thank You William
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
53. suggestion from a longtime editor
I believe you need to signal either in a title, a subtitle, or a first sentence what you have to offer that's new. It isn't until the 14th graf that you tell the reader something new -- your exclusive quote.

This is news. You're making news. And yet the nugget is buried 14 paragraphs down.

People who look at the piece have probably read a dozen articles stories on the matter already and are scanning for something that advances the story.

So you'd better hint up front that you've got news. Otherwise they read three grafs and not the rest.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Where were you when I needed you? :o)
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 06:17 PM by WilliamPitt
This one's already in the pot. :(

You're right, of course. On the other hand, the fact that she was an operative is being shot all over CNN and MSNBC. They're shooting it to pieces, so I think I might get away with it.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. funny thing timing... Noone was mentioning WHAT was compromised when
you started drafting this, this morning. THat just picked up steam after the press conference. Interesting study in the development of a story over seven hours.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. True
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. makes that scoop of yours
that much more cool. Hard for Novaks to stay on the "she was just an analyst" denial for long. Good Work.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
75. Agree, I started to snooze until I was way down in article...only because
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 09:27 PM by KoKo01
I spent this weekend and part of today reading WP and Novak article.....plus Vanity Fair article and checking CNN....so the Ray McGovern verification is a good one.....

If your readers aren't familiar it's a good history all in one place. I don't know your audience...if its TruthOut they might already know?

whatever.....it's good you wrote it...but the new stuff is buried maybe too far down. Just a suggestion.....
Peace!
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mcar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
54. The McGovern quotes are awesome, and damning
I hope this gets picked up all over the place. Great job!
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
56. keep this kicked
:kick:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
58. TRUTHOUT LINK FOR THIS ARTICLE
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 06:58 PM by WilliamPitt
http://truthout.org/docs_03/093003A.shtml

Thank you so much for the help today, everyone. I could not do this without your help.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. i am glad you are smart enough to take advantage of all this free talent
many wouldn't :toast: or at least they wouldn't admit to it ;->

peace
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
72. Graet Work. But I think its Rummie and Wolfowitz, not Rove...
They would have the CIA inside info

and they would use their ties to leak it knowing that reporters would not reveal their sources.

But under a grand jury or other investigation if they lie about it they are toast (especially if an insider knows itr was approved by Bush and lies)

This is shrubheads watergate crisis.

Somebody knows they wll not burn for JUNIOR

YAYYYY!!!!!
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
80. Jeebus, Will, I'm in tears here!
I've lost complete count of how long I've been praying for some kind of concrete evidence to be brought out. Now do us all a favor and don't suddenly drop out of sight anytime soon, 'k? What can I say, I'm a little edgy these days. :shrug:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
59. poppy Bush
called it treason when he was pres, saw the clip on ABC news tonight.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
64. Will, when it comes to Bush Admin blood in the water, you are a
great white shark.

:ear splitting applause:

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FauxNewsBlues Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
66. kick
(eom)
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
67. I hope you're right.
I'm choking with outrage, I just heard Bush on CSPAN plugging his "Do Not Call" bill. What a courageous act of self-promotion. He scurried out the back door w/o taking a question. Keep up the good work, Will.
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
68. Thank you
I've forwarded the website. Bumping.
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
69. CAUTION: Novakula claims the Rove story is a mistake
Check this--I know Marshall was reporting this story, but I don't think the piece hinges on it, and if it's a mistake you're better off without it:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn200212...
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
71. Wonderful Will!
(She said with gross bias!) I'm getting the bunker ready! :-)
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SayitAintSo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
74. Incredible work - Also - your speech at ASU was awsome !
It great meeting you and getting to listen to you live. You are indeed a treasure to all of us that love and support your work. Keep on writing and be safe !!!

Sayitaintso
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
76. Beautiful and brilliant, Will.
Every now and then I think I may want to try writing, then I read something like this and realize there are others much more capable than I could ever be.

Write for us, Will.
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
77. Will, an addition maybe?
This administration based its refusal to provide any real details about their allegations of weapons of mass destruction by insisting that it would compromise intelligence "sources and methods." How interesting that they have chosen to attack an operative upon whose sources and methods our safety really does depend.

The writing sucks but you get the idea.
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NoKingGeorge Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #77
93. Agreed . Stop the tracking of WMD and do what you want.
Maybe it was to spite Mr.Wilson or to send a message.

OR maybe it was a quick way to suspend the activities of a Network that took 10 yrs to develop.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
78. BRAVO!!
Damning stuff! Just what we've been waiting for! :bounce:
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
79. Sure Lots of Thanks to Shrub
For giving a start on the search for 5th column. It is up to the investigative journalists (if there are any left to follow up).
Unfortunately many will be punished for any kind of an association. Just think in the future that eye scans will be able to remove anyone close or associated.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
81. Excellent Work, Mr. Pitt!
My hat is off to you, Sir!

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
82. This is interesting
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
83. Will, is there an on-the-record source
for the rove-novak '92 campaign thing?
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. actually, there's a walkback to that story...
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 11:35 PM by grasswire
...and I should have posted it here sooner. I started a separate thread on it.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn200212...

From Robert Novak's column of 12/5/02

"Unfortunately, I did not escape Suskind's article, which includes these sentences: "Sources close to the former president say Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negative story with columnist Robert Novak about dissatisfaction with campaign fund-raising chief and Bush loyalist Robert Mosbacher Jr. It was smoked out, and he was summarily ousted." I was called by no fact-checker, who would have learned of multiple errors.

Suskind has confused former Secretary of Commerce Robert Mosbacher Sr., Bush's 1992 chief fund-raiser, with his son Rob, who headed the Bush campaign in Texas (Victory '92). Criticism of the younger Mosbacher, a frequent unsuccessful candidate in Texas, was not "planted" with me by Rove but was passed to me by a Bush aide whom I interviewed. Rove was indeed fired by Mosbacher from Victory '92 but continued as a national Bush-for-president operative."

On edit: I see that Dr.BB posted this link earlier up. Hope WRP saw it.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
85. You know what I keep thinking about--that Dilulio quote overheard
while sitting outside Rove's office. Rove may have been emoting about Wilson for all we know.

Anyway, Karl, how do like getting f***ed like you've never been f***ed before?

He might want to get in touch with G. Gordon Liddy for important tips on how to avoid rape WHILE IN FEDERAL PRISON . . .
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
86. Last night, the "She was just an analyst" line seemed to be...
the talking point du jour of the RW.
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
88. Great summary!
My local paper is playing up the whitewash by emphasizing the "Wilson is backing off his allegations" bit. It was a farce and completely unlike all the "Clinton is guilty by rumor" shit they ran all through the 90's, sickening.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
89. No internal investigation?
They have a much more unbreachable stonewall than Nixon or any other President I can think of.

I bet this is another lie. They are doing a big internal investigation to find the one leaking against them.

Bush is too busy fundraising by the way to bother about such piffle. Doesn't it seem to you that the CIA(at least the straight up part of the organization) uis being slapped around with impunity?

The old CIA never goes straight and public like this. I think THOSE guys are on the Bush team or maybe a more dangerous kettle is starting to boil. Amazing to watch a President essentially at war with his own country bluffing his way through.

But then he is not in reality an American or a President. Same old, same old elite tyrant.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
90. I've picked it up at truthout and passed it on.
Great work.
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dpl202 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
91. kick
.
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OilemFirchen Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
94. An important correction
Will, you state:

"Also, the fact that this data came to the Washington post from a White House official means that another Deep Throat may have just been born."

The WP info came from an Administration official. An important distiction, and one that's either negligently or (more likely) purposefully being mangled by the press.

Don't give 'em fodder.
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OilemFirchen Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
95. Also...
The "everybody knew she was an operative" angle is critically important to this story. It's the puggie spin-point du jour, though I doubt your source is aware.

As Josh Marshall put it, re: Cliff May's screed in NRO (May having made the same observation):


To this I would only say, Cliff, pursuing this line of inquiry/argument could lead to some really awkward surprises. Just heads up.

Play it up. It strongly implies a conspiracy within, at the very least, the WH and the wingnut media. 'Taint about a few rogue WH officials no mo...
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Oracle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-03 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
97. Just saw Hannity insisting Valerie Plame was NOT a CIA operative.
Edited on Tue Sep-30-03 02:50 PM by Oracle
I haven't watch TV media in over ten months as I was passing through channels I stopped (what a mistake.)

Hannity (which is going to be the rock solid republican "message-of-the-day") was saying there's no proof about Valerie Plame and the WH involvement... then he switched gears telling how great we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq that "woman are back in the classrooms, Sadamms sons are killed, Baghdad is back to normal, the Taliban has been 3/4 destroyed... and so what if we haven't caught bin Laden or Hussein they are stuck hiding in a cave somewhere."

I read here on DU where Limbaugh is saying it was Clinton appointees in the CIA who leaked the story,

I then switched over to MSNBC and Pat Buchanan saying Kovak talks to hundreds of different WH people every day, how could he be sure who gave him the story.

This I hoped cured me for at least another ten month's of watching this bullshit.

How do you guys do it?
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