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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:38 PM
Original message
Poppy Bush Involved in JFK Assassination -- BFEE's Spooked!
Poppy Bush is one scary fellah. He played some role in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

That's what the historical record shows: Official FBI memos from within MINUTES of the assassination chronicle what George H.W. Bush, President of Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company called the FBI to report hearsay that someone wanted to kill President Kennedy. The problem was, Bush reported his suspicions just minutes after JFK was dead. Why didnt Bush say something sooner?

In the second memo, a Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency reports that the anti-Castro (and largely anti-JFK) Cuban exile community in Miami say the assassination represents a great loss to the US and Latin America. The pro-Castro community, Bush apparently, says they regret the assassination.

Now I don't know if Poppy was a trigger man or only there to watch what happened or what. He's never explained these memos. He's never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed. The FBI says Bush Sr was in Dallas. Seeing how his dim son is destroying the planet, it's vitally important that he tell the Truth. Why? The United States and the world haven't been the same since November 22, 1963. And not a single major player in the nation's mass media have stepped up and demanded a real investigation. So, it's up to us.

The information below connects George CIA Bush with the assassination. It helps explain a LOT of whats gone wrong in America since that day to the present. And the Truth it represents is why someone from Jeb's office was checking out at Minstrel Boy's blog.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Hey, DU! We got the BFEE spooked. We need to spread this information far and wide. Our world's future, and our individual lives and liberty, depend on it.



This is from the same week as the assassination to J Edgar Hoover:



SOURCE: www.internetpirate.com/bush.htm
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is very disturbing after 42 years to have these finally...
...come to light. There is something very wrong with a government system that conceals from the public vital facts and information about an unsolved murder of a president.

Have these documents been verified as authentic?
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yes. They were released in 1977 and 1978.
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 10:12 PM by Zen Democrat
The Hoover memo was buried among 98,755 pages of FBI documents released as a result of Freedom of Information lawsuits.

There was a George William Bush who worked for the CIA briefly in 1963-64, but he was a low level night clerk, who worked in the photo lab as I recall. He was interviewed by "The Nation" and when asked about the Hoover memo said "That must be the other George Bush." His job was not one that would have called for him to be briefed or to do any briefings with the FBI.

BTW, when Gerald Ford (of the Warren Commission) appointed Bush as DCI in 1975, it was during the Church Committee investigations into CIA assassinations, and Frank Church charged that Bush was appointed director after the firing of Colby in order to impede the committee's investigation. Colby had been cooperating with the committee, and Ford was trying desperately to thwart it. He brough Bush back from China ... and Bush did the job.

In his autobiography, Bush states, "I'd come to the CIA with some general knowledge of how it operated."
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Something I'm wondering
Was there another George Bush??
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. See below...it's been discussed.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. Yeppers.. DU covers this every few months.. There was even a picture
posted once of a guy who looks eerily like a young GHWB..that's soomehow connected to the assassination.. I did not save it, and forget just now..
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
49. GHWB?
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 05:27 AM by HR_Pufnstuf



"A photograph exists of the Texas School Book Depository while the Dallas Police is sealing off the building. Among the bystanders is a civilian that could be a twin brother of George H.W. Bush."

Source:
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush2.htm
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Photo enlarged.
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #51
184. Doesn't look like him
..at all.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #184
201. agreed
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #49
154. I believe that is Poppy
Edited on Wed Mar-16-05 12:04 AM by FreedomAngel82
Compare that to this photo:



Look how he's standing and everything and the hair style. Short and slicked back. Now look at this photo.

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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
50. See post 44. n/t
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
87. That looks like GHW Bush's posture, but the features of the head
...and face are too blurred to really tell for sure. Also, can a height be determined say against the building of that individual? Pappy Bush is a tall man, perhaps 6'2" or 6'3" I seem to recall.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #87
112. I guess someone would have to get the measurements of the building
using the concrete?work as a guide.

In an earlier post there is a supposed photo of him on an oil rig (?). The posture reminds me of this person.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #112
123. Right, but the head and face are too blurred in the Dallas photo
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. They are from the National Archives.
Here's a link to the assassination records from the NA:

http://merrimack.nara.gov:80/cgi-bin/starfinder/9656/jf...

Enter the ID number: 62-2115-6. It won't display the document itself, but will confirm that it exists there.

I can't find an ID number on the second. The folks at InternetPirate indicates he found it at the assassination records in the National Archives, as well.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Got the thing to kick out the particulars...
Once the resuls from a single, original query are displayed, one can click to get more info. Here's Poppy!

http://merrimack.nara.gov:80/cgi-bin/starfinder/9656/jf...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
131. JFK's car in the motorcade.
LBJ's car in the motorcade, I remember had Secret Service agents protecting the veep. The follow-up car had ONE agent jump up and try to protect the President. I remember reading the driver actually slowed down and stopped the car during the shooting (5.6 sec. later) because he thought the bullets were coming from the front.



JFK's car in the motorcade.

There is a noticable difference. Here's more from JFK Lancer:

http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html

And a short Quicktime movie showing an agent getting "ordered" off JFK's limousine. No kidding.

http://www.jfklancer.com/SSoffcar.html
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #131
181. Wow, that video is something.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. This was in KKelley's book, fwiw... n/t
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
79. Soooo you didn't know he was also involved in the attempt on REAGAN?
Please. Why do you think Reagan rolled over and played golf for the rest of his term and let Poppy run the show?
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Didn't Ford appoint Bush DCI because he testified he wasn't part of CIA ?
And running interference for Operation Mockingbird stuff, etc, that came out in the Church and Pike commissions ?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Bush had been employed by the CIA since the mid-1950s at least....
...and Ford, being the consummate insider, knew that for a fact. It was convenient at the time of his appointment as CIA Director that he be thought of as an outsider by those unfamiliar with the CIA's operations.

Here's three clues....the Bay of Pigs was codenamed "Operation Zapata" by the CIA. Two of the landing craft were named the "Houston" and the "Barbara". If you read the memo in this thread, you'll see that Bush was the owner of the Zapata Oil Company.

Some of Bush's contemporaries in the CIA at the time of the JFK assassination were people that later appeared during the Watergate break-in. Still others were CIA execs fired by JFK following the Bay of Pigs fiasco were among Bush's friends...men like Dulles. Still more were currently at manager levels within the Agency.

Bush also knew the Big Oil community in Texas very well, and knew a fellow by the name of DeMohrenschildt who was an important figure in the JFK case because of his friendship with Oswald.

The Bay of Pigs operation was part of something called the Cuban Task Force that was headquartered in Miami, FL, with units operating all along the Gulf Coast. As VP for Ike, Nixon was one of the major planners of the Bay of Pigs operation, but couldn't carry it out when he lost the 1960 election to JFK. Units in cities like Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Tampa, Miami, and the Florida keys played a major role in running guns, supplies, money and other items into Cuba to keep the anti-Castro Cuban resistance going.

Oh, by the Nixon was also in Dallas the day of the assassination. He at forst claimed he was never there, but some diligent researcher tracked down his travel plans that day. He then claimed that he was in Dallas for a Coca-Cola board meeting...but no such meeting took place in Dallas during the four days Nixon was in town.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I remember reading
they asked Nixon another time where he was on that day and he claimed he was in NYC for a party or some type of function event. Did anything ever get discovered about that?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. He was definitely in Dallas....plane tickets to, and plane tickets from...
...covering a four day period until his plane left at just about the exact time JFK was being shot to death on November 22, 1963. Nixon lied about being in NYC.

When Tricky was being cornered by the Watergate mess, he told one of his aides to go talk to Helms of the CIA to see if the CIA would help him get the FBI off his back. Nixon stated to an aide that he wanted the aide to tell Helms the CIA didn't want that old Bay of Pigs thing brought up. Haldeman stated later that he believed that Nixon was talking code about what he knew about the JFK assassination and what he might say if the CIA didn't help him. Helms went absolutely ballistic about that comment. Needless to say, Nixon kept quiet.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. I remember that
I remember that from the JFK II- Bush Connection video. Talking about keeping the Bay of Pigs quiet. It could've been code for that situation and the whole JFK thing. :argh:
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sffreeways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
77. The Tapes
supposedly, and I believe this of course. The Watergate tapes with the 40 or some minutes that were mysteriously erased covered a discussion about Nixons involvement in the murder.

"Only the tip of the iceburg"
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #77
152. I never thought about that
Good point. Since they're recorded over of course we'll never know.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
56. Both Bush Sr. and Nixon seem to be the only two people
on the planet who continuously claim not to remember where they were when Kennedy was assassinated.

I was a brand new sixth-grade school teacher and had just walked into the principal's office for a short conference when the clerk told us what had happened. I can see that day as clear as if it just happened.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
114. Bush, Nixon and E. Howard Hunt don't know where they were
on 11/22/63.

But we know that Bush and Nixon were in Dallas. Hunt? He's rumored to be one the tramps arrested and released that day.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #56
174. good point! I was six years old and just walked in the door from school
(that was later renamed to JFK Elementary) and my mom told me and I remember going upstairs to the bathroom, shutting the door and falling to the floor and crying with my head on the toilet seat lid that was down. I loved JFK. I even wrote him a letter and he wrote back to all of us in our 1st grade class...

so how come these fuckers didn't remember? And how can Clinton hang out with them when he tried to restore Camelot to the White House too?
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mrbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. Nixon was in Dallas on the evening of 21 Nov 1963
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 11:54 PM by mrbill
He was at the Empire Room of the Statler Hilton with a group of Pepsi-Cola (not Coke) directors and Joan Crawford.

This was reported in the next morning's editions of the Dallas Morning News by Don Safron and the Dallas Times Herald by Tony Zoppi.

Nixon caught an early flight back to New York on the 22nd and arrived at LaGuardia about noon and heard of the events in Dallas from a cab driver.

on edit: spell check harpy
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
63. I believe he testified to Congress after the Ford nomination that
he had no prior CIA employment...please correct me if I'm mistaken. This is why the "must be some other George Bush" during the JFK assassination...
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
64. Also the mayor of Dallas was brother of Cabell...fired with Dulles
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
76. "the Cuban thing"
In the transcript of the Nixon tapes, Nixon refers repeatedly to "the Cuban thing". The first time I read that I thought he was probably talking about something to do with the Kennedy assassination.

I think Nixon was terrified of info about the "Cuban thing" coming out, more than anything. IMO he was one of the principals involved in the Kennedy assassination. GHWB also.
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #76
182. I thought he also mentions "the Texans"
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #182
205. The Texans" were Mosbacher, Baker and Bush -- Nixon's Real Plumbers
The Kennedy Assassination:
The Nixon-Bush Connection


by Paul Kangas

EXCERPT...

On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book The Ends of Power, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs."

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

After Nixon's landslide victory in 1972, he knew he had to centralize all power into the White House to keep his faction in power, not only to hold power, but to prevent the media from digging into how he secretly shot his way into the White House, just like Hitler shot his way into control of Germany. The first thing Nixon did was to demand signed resignations of his entire government. "Eliminate everyone," he told John Ehrlichman about reappointment, "except George Bush. Bush will do anything for our cause." (Source: Pledging Allegiance, Sidney Blumenthal.)

The reason why Bush will 'do anything" is because his hands have as much of Kennedy's blood on them as do Nixon's, Hunt's, Sturgis's, Felix Rodriguez's and Gerald Ford's. This White House gang fears that if the public ever realizes how they shot their way into power it could set off a spark that would destroy their fragile fraud and land them in jail.

CONTINUED...

http://www.sumeria.net/politics/kennedy.html

Don't ya just love the Internets?

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
203. DCI Richard McGarrah Helms said a CIA officer would LIE under oath...
...so George Herbert Walker Bush lying about his CV should have been a matter of business as usual.

Oh well. Like father like dim son...

Bush (Jr) Sends Money to Taliban While Planning War

EXCERPT...

Family Ties: Taliban and Former CIA Director Richard Helms

At hand is a low-profile briefing on international narcotics by a top State Department official, who has recently returned from a United Nations trip to inspect the poppy fields of Afghanistan, source of 80 percent of the world's opium and target of a recent eradication campaign by the fundamentalist Taliban. The lecture begins as every other in Washington: The speaker politely informs the crowd he has nothing to do with policymaking. And, by the way, it's all off the record. Lecture over, the chairman asks for questions. One man after another rises to describe his own observations while in the foreign service. The moderator pauses, looks to the back of the room, and says in a scarcely audible voice: 'Laili Helms.' The room goes silent.

Note: Richard Helms and George Bush were key CIA managers involved in the Bay of Pigs matter according to Mark Lane in his book, Plausible Denial, and thus, both tied to the assassination of JFK as mentioned earlier. Both would eventually become directors of CIA. In CIA, there are axioms seldom left unapplied: Once CIA, always CIA. The son of CIA becomes CIA. The wife of CIA is from CIA. Considering these axioms, it is most curious that the son of former CIA Director George Bush does business with the Brother of Osama bin Laden in the setting up of businesses which seems very tied to CIA - while at the same time, a woman with CIA ties and who is married into the family of former CIA Director Richard Helms represents the Taliban, protector of Osama bin Laden, who has CIA ties. This coziness among the CIA and bin Laden families all suggests to me that perhaps Osama bin Laden may still very much be a CIA protected operative, and makes me very nervous about who really orchestrated the 911 attacks.

Laili Helms, his niece by marriage, is an operative, too - but of a different kind...

In 1999, Helms says, she got a message from the Taliban leadership that they were willing to turn over all of bin Laden's communications equipment, which they had seized, to the U.S. When she called the State Department with this offer, officials were at first interested, but later said, 'No. We want him.'

Note: Convenient answer. Rather than take away the capability of bin Laden to direct his people abroad (and perhaps, to communicate with his CIA overseers), a line is drawn in the sand demanding that which was not possible. Why not take the gear and still seek the man, having weakened his ability to avoid capture and engage in terrorism in the process? Perhaps because getting the man is NOT the actual goal. Perhaps he is more useful where he is, doing what he does?

CONTINUED...

http://www.prophecyclub.com/article_2002_january-februa...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Michael Beschloss says Barb and Georgie were in Dallas
that day.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
197. There's a "personal" reason Poppy doesn't want to remember...
"Bush broke out in assholes and shit himself to death."

From The Unauthorized Biography of George H.W. Bush

On August 5, 1974, the White House released the transcript of the celebrated "smoking gun" taped conversation of June 23, 1972 in which Nixon discussed ways to frustrate the investigation of the Watergate break-ins. Chairman George was one of the leading Nixon Administration figures consulting with Al Haig in the course of the morning. When Bush heard the news, he was very upset, undoubtedly concerned about all the very negative publicity that he himself was destined to receive in the blowback of Nixon's now imminent downfall. Then after a while he calmed down somewhat. One account describes Bush as "somewhat relieved" by the news that the coup de grace tape was going to be made public, "an act probably fatal," as Haig had said. "Finally there was some one thing the national chairman could see clearly. The ambiguities in the evidence had been tearing the party apart, Bush thought." At this point Bush became the most outspoken and militant organizer of Nixon's resignation, a Cassius of the Imperial Presidency.

A little later White House Congressional liaison William Timmons wanted to make sure that everyone had been fully briefed about the transcripts going out, and he turned to Nixon's political counselor Dean Burch. "Dean, does Bush know about the transcript yet?", Timmons asked. Burch replied, "Yes." "Well, what did he do?", Timmons asked.

"He broke out in assholes and shit himself to death," was Burch's answer.

But why, it may be asked, the dermal diahhrea? Why should Bush be so distraught over the release to the press of the transcript of the notorious White House meeting of June 23, 1972, whose exhcanges between Nixon and Haldeman were to prove the coup de grace to the agony of the Nixon regime? As we have seen, there is plenty of evidence that the final fall of Nixon was just the denouement that Bush wanted. The answer is that Bush was upset about the fabulous "smoking gun" tape because his friend Mosbacher, his business partner Bill Liedtke, and himself were referred to in the most sensitive passages. Yes, a generation of Americans has grown up recalling something about a "smoking gun" tape, but not many now recall that when Nixon referred to "the Texans," he meant George Bush. ("Das Bekannte ueberhaupt ist darum, weil es bekannt ist, nicht erkannt," as even old Hegel knew.)

CONTINUED, including a transcript of Nixon and Co's White House conversation on the subject...

http://www.tarpley.net/bush12.htm
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #197
210. Maybe he could have used the Rimmington Repeater
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #210
212. Garbage In. Garbage out.
Shit-for-brains: The Little Turd from Crawford.

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intensitymedia Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. The CIA claimed it was a "different" George Bush
Yes, these documents have been around for a while and they're certainly suggestive, and they're not the end of the Bush/JFK assassination story by a long shot.

Without documenting it clearly however I seem to recall that these were brushed aside as reflecting the reports of a "different" George Bush. Yeah right. But that's where it rests.

Check Lisa Pease's superb Real History Archives

http://www.realhistoryarchives.com/index2.htm

for authoritative research on the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK and a lot of other great stuff. She also has a blog that's well worth the attention of all those interested.

peace - but never give up the struggle -

che

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. heh
this is weird, since the one document says George H W Bush. Maybe it's another one of those. Maybe it's a different John Edgar Hoover too.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yeah, the "other" George Bush - that's it!
The "other" George Bush denied it. And the clerical position he held ruled such a communication out of the question.

And Lisa Pease most definitely rocks!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
199. George William Bush
What a "coincidence" that he should be transferred to do photo-recon at CIA for just that, uh, awkward six-month moment in time. Lucky for George Herbert Walker Bush, though. Oh well.

The Unauthorized Biography of George H W Bush

EXCERPT...

This FBI document identifying George Bush as a CIA agent in November, 1963 was first published by Joseph McBride in The Nation in July, 1988, just before Bush received the Republican nomination for president. McBride's source observed: "I know was involved in the Caribbean. I know he was involved in the suppression of things after the Kennedy assassination. There was a very definite worry that some Cuban groups were going to move against Castro and attempt to blame it on the CIA." 20 When pressed for confirmation or denial, Bush's spokesman Stephen Hart commented: "Must be another George Bush." Within a short time the CIA itself would peddle the same damage control line. On July 19, 1988 in the wake of wide public attention to the report published in The Nation, CIA spokeswoman Sharron Basso departed from the normal CIA policy of refusing to confirm or deny reports that any person is or was a CIA employee. CIA spokeswoman Basso told the Associated press that the CIA believed that "the record should be clarified." She said that the FBI document "apparently" referred to a George William Bush who had worked in 1963 on the night shift at CIA headquarters, and that "would have been the appropriate place to have received such an FBI report." According to her account, the George William Bush in question had left the CIA to join the Defense Intelligence Agency in 1964.

For the CIA to volunteer the name of one of its former employees to the press was a shocking violation of traditional methods, which are supposedly designed to keep such names a closely guarded secret. This revelation may have constituted a violation of federal law. But no exertions were too great when it came to damage control for George Bush.

George William Bush had indeed worked for the CIA, the DIA, and the Alexandria, Virginia Department of Public Welfare before joining the Social Security Administration, in whose Arlington, Virginia office he was employed as a claims representative in 1988. George William Bush told The Nation that while at the CIA he was "just a lowly researcher and analyst" who worked with documents and photos and never received interagency briefings. He had never met Forsyth of the FBI or Captain Edwards of the DIA. "So it wasn't me," said George William Bush. 21

Later, George William Bush formalized his denial in a sworn statement to a federal court in Washington, DC. The affidavit acknowledges that while working at CIA headquarters between September 1963 and February 1964, George William Bush was the junior person on a three to four man watch shift which was on duty when Kennedy was shot. But, as George William Bush goes on to say,

I have carefully reviewed the FBI memorandum to the Director, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Department of State dated November 29, 1963 which mentions a Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency....I do not recognize the contents of the memorandum as information furnished to me orally or otherwise during the time I was at the CIA. In fact, during my time at the CIA. I did not receive any oral communications from any government agency of any nature whatsoever. I did not receive any information relating to the Kennedy assassination during my time at the CIA from the FBI.

Based on the above, it is my conclusion that I am not the Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency referred to in the memorandum. 22


So we are left with the strong suspicion that the "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" referred to by the FBI is our own George Herbert Walker Bush, who, in addition to his possible contact with Lee Harvey Oswald's controller, may thus also join the ranks of the Kennedy assassination cover-up. It makes perfect sense for George Bush to be called in on a matter involving the Cuban community in Miami, since that is a place where George has traditionally had a constituency. George inherited it from his father, Prescott Bush of Jupiter Island, and later passed it on to his own son, Jeb.

CONTINUED ...

http://davidicke.www.50megs.com/icke/magazine/vol5/bush...

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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Actually, there WAS another George Bush in the CIA at the time.
He was an analyst, apparently, not involved in field work, and is documented as being at his desk in (Virginia or DC, can't remember which) on 22 November '63, so it wasn't him.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. With me I believe
that the people who shot JFK also shot MLK and RFK. They saw them as a "threat" to their power and had to get them out of the way. It is now known that if Robert hadn't died he would've been president and had Martin has his vp. Couldn't have a black man as a vice president who was fighting for civil rights. So they had to get rid of Robert (and other reasons I'm sure).
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Heard about this recently.
Elderly relative says, "but SR seems so nice..."

My response, "They said the same thing about Jeffrey Damer." (Pardon the spelling). If you recall, all his neighbors and fellow co-workers said this dec'd mass sicko murder was "so nice." No one could belive it. He was even noted as being very likeable by the courts and law enforcers.

I'm still finding it "really" odd seeing Senior and Clinton together so much publicly. What's up with that :wtf:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. I really don't know myself
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 11:10 PM by FreedomAngel82
I wonder really. It is strange. Maybe he's just doing that to be a nice guy and junior asked Poppy and Clinton to help with the tsunami thing. Maybe junior is trying to win some democrats over. Remember shortly before the election he asked us to vote for him? (yeah right) Like a: "See? Your man and my old man hanging out together. Isn't it nice? So c'mon over and have a hot dog and some beer..."
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. the tin foil hatter in me says that Clinton and shrubs have worked out a
deal. Would it be possible for the pugs to allow Hillary to win? It would allow the elections to appear safe after all if a Dem won. And I like Clinton a lot, but I don't doubt for a moment that he's in just as deep as the shrubs are.

just my opinion
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
41. I know what you mean
Some part of me wonders too because of some strange things. And I do keep that tinfoilhat handy now days.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
175. and then I remember the threat that JFK Jr. posed to Ms. Clinton in NY
before his plane crashed into the sea ...
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hickman1937 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #31
45. Nope. They deal with Clinton because they are trying to
contain him. He still polls in the upper 60's. He is indestructable. I'm waiting for the Big Jerk to throw the glove down. I love that man, but he better have a plan, because I'm getting impatient.
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #45
167. I too like Clinton alot. He has more charisma in his anal hair then shrub
has in his entire administration. I hope that Clinton is being so cozy for a good and moral reason, but I'm afraid that he too, has things he wouldn't want out. I mean, you don't get the name :slick Willy" for being moral and stand upish.
Though, I believe that whatever mess Clinton may be tied up in, it's financial and not murderous, maniacal world domination like shrubbery.

I would love if you were right and Clinton even comes out to be superman and saves the day. Unfortunatly when I look at him with the shrubs, I see a man trapped, regretful, maybe a little embarrased. I'm sure that's just me though.

Here's hoping for Superman
:toast:
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
46. Agreed
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
214. Recently I have thought that myself. n/t
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
110. I think the Bushes knew
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 03:13 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
that wherever they went in the world, they were not exactly going to be known for "corporal works of mercy" (other than to their "base"...), or "spiritual" for that matter, and might even frighten the people without the accompaniment of a universally-loved humanitarian. It wouldn't have looked good or perhaps even have been safe.
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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
53. I was thinking that myself
the whole time I was reading. Is it just me, or did they hold hands at one point??
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #53
69. I think
Clinton holds hands with anybody and is a nice guy even if he knows the truth about the Bush crime family. I also think with poppy he probably holds his tounge when around Clinton since we know they really dislike him.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
94. Maybe that's where Bill gets his best-doctor-for-x advice.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 01:21 PM by Festivito
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

EDIT: Mispelled Bill as Bull...
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. George H. W. Bush has had associations with the RIGHT-WING Cuban "exiles"
since before the Bay of Pigs. They are violently ANTI-Castro.

Here's a photo taken of George H. W. Bush sitting with his friend, Felix Rodriguez (A.K.A. Max Gomez) who was involved in both the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, and Iran-Contra.



Here's a copy of his Christmas note to the creep. Rodriguez was the Cuban American "exile" who stole the watch from Che Guevara's dead body after he was murdered by the Bolivian group Felix Rodriguez was with who tracked him down.



Felix Rodriguez is the man behind Che Guevara,on the left side of the page. His autograph is at the bottom of the photo. What class, NOT.



Bush is VERY deeply involved with the REPUBLICAN part of the Cuban "exiles."
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. How Poppys Goon Got Ches Watch
Seeing it on a discount table over a decade ago, I picked up and read Felix I. Rodriguezs autobiography, Shadow Warrior. Talk about a self-aggrandizing mind. Gee. He wouldve singlehandedly saved Cuba, sacrificing his own life if need be, if he only had a clear shot at Fidel. Right.

Regarding the stuff with Che: In the book, Rodriguez makes out like he had no choice in killing Che Guevara. It was up to the Bolivian Army and the guys in the field took orders from La Paz. And, anyway, Felix was just along for the helicopter ride that day as an advisor. Right.

From Shadow Warriorpp. 161-162.

Che was lying on his side on the floor, his arms tied behind his back and his feet bound together. Near Che lay the corpses of two guerrillas. One Antonio was his nom de guerre was in fact a Cuban officer named Orlando Pantojas who had served with Che going back to the guerrilla days in the Sierra Maestra. The other, Arturo, had been a Cuban army intelligence captain. His real name was Rene Martinez Tamayo. In the adjoining rooms to our right similarly bound, was a Bolivian guerrilla named Willy, a fomer mine-workers union leader from Pacos hometown of Oruro, whose real name was Simon Cuba Saravia.

Ches leg wound was slightly, but visibly, oozing blood. He was a mess. Hair matted, clothes ragged and torn.

(Bolivian Army Colonel) Zenteno spoke. I stood behind him, silent, completely absorbed the moment. Why did you chose to come to Bolivia? he asked Che.

There was no reply.

CONTINUED

Rodriguez spends the next few pages making out how the Agency wanted Che alive, but those Bolivians gave the go-ahead for Operation Five Hundred (Che) and Six Hundred (dead).

Thanks for the information, Judi Lynn. Max Gomez-Felix Rodriguez has proven a most useful turd for the BFEE. The same murderous tactics patriots like Rodriguez has applied to commies like Che, Im sad to write, have been applied to to Liberal Democrats like John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jr., Robert F. Kennedy, Frank Church, Paul Wellstone and many other truly good men and women real patriots.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. I've often thought of that murder. I think it would be so likely that the
right-wing Cuban "exile" Felix Rodriguez would have taken special enjoyment in shooting that wounded Cuban Revolutionary guy to death.
Cubans threw over the brutal, corrupt government people like Rodriguez supported.

I did read testimonies from several different witnesses to that event that Che Guevara didn't grovel, but met his fate very calmly, and stayed completely composed.

No doubt you've heard he keeps it with him all the time, for bragging purposes. I was going to look for more on Felix and his stolen watch, when I ran across this interesting site:


George on one of his Zapata oil platforms
+ George H.W. Bush is provably lying about his CIA career. He claims that his CIA directorship in 1976 was his first job for the CIA. Difficult to believe? Page 3 will show the proof for this lie. The truth is that he was actively involved in the preparation and financing of the ill faithed Bay of Pigs invasion, as a high ranking CIA official, at which time he made acquaintance with the now notorious CIA agent and Iran Contra operative Felix Rodriguez, a veteran of the Bay of Pigs and Operation 40.



Felix Rodriguez and Luis Posada Carrilles:
Veterans of the Bay of Pigs, members of Operation 40, friends, anti-Castro Cuban exiles,
CIA assets, trained assassins and operatives for Iran Contra.


http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush2.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


There may be something in this article worth reading.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. That explains a lot
Now we know why Nixon mentioned the whole Bay of Pigs thing and why he didn't want people looking in it. Wow. Thanks for posting this info and this thread.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Wow
I didn't know this. I knew he probably had something to do with that though. Also notice what's in the letter. "Yes the truth is powerful. You tell the truth faithfully- and we have won a lot of respect in the process." Oh wow. That's really telling. And who's truth? THE truth or George H. W. Bush's truth?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. The Bushes seem to have their own unique view of the "truth," don't they?
I'm sure you saw this ridiculous "impromtu" note Condi Rice scribbled and handed to George W. Bush, upon which he scrawled a response, and apparently they called someone to rush out of the room with it to hand off to one of the puppet reporters to get into the next edition of the paper!



This could make a maggot gag. Apparently they think we are all as stupid as W. is.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. Some other contemporaries of GHWB from that time....
...E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, Bernard Barker, and others too numerous to list.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Right! Those guys also helped in the Watergate burglary
when they broke into the Democratic National Committee's office. Real heroes, weren't they?

Some of them also went to Viet Nam and helped interrogate prisoners, and also worked on projects like Operation Condor, tracking down and murdering "leftists" all over Latin American and beyond.

Bush has some odd friends, if people like that can be considered friends by anyone.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #38
153. I don't think they're Bush's friends anyway
I just think he probably butters them up and say they're friends and whenever he needs someone to do his dirty work then he knows who to call who will do anything for him.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #153
243. Business Acquaintances?
The Kennedy Assasination:

The Nixon-Bush Connection


EXCERPT...

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

After Nixon's landslide victory in 1972, he knew he had to centralize all power into the White House to keep his faction in power, not only to hold power, but to prevent the media from digging into how he secretly shot his way into the White House, just like Hitler shot his way into control of Germany. The first thing Nixon did was to demand signed resignations of his entire government. "Eliminate everyone," he told John Ehrlichman about reappointment, "except George Bush. Bush will do anything for our cause." (Source: Pledging Allegiance, Sidney Blumenthal.)

The reason why Bush will 'do anything" is because his hands have as much of Kennedy's blood on them as do Nixon's, Hunt's, Sturgis's, Felix Rodriguez's and Gerald Ford's. This White House gang fears that if the public ever realizes how they shot their way into power it could set off a spark that would destroy their fragile fraud and land them in jail.

CONTINUED...

http://raenergy.igc.org/kennedy.html

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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
228. Bush family/Oswald's mutual friend George de Mohrenschildt
This may already be in this huge thread already but here are other links about it....hmmmmph.. Bush connections w/ this guy and then friends w/ Hinkley family.


http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/33rd_I...


More recently, California-based assassination historian Bruce Campbell Adamson published a ten-volume biography of the late CIA-connected Dallas petro-geologist George de Mohrenschildt. Adamson argues strongly that a relationship existed between the senior Bush and the shady international playboy de Mohrenschildt, who was widely regarded as Lee Harvey Oswald's best friend in Dallas during 1962 and '63.

"Former President George Bush has admitted to me that he had known George de Mohrenschildt since 1942," Adamson said, and that relationship continued into the mid-1970s. In addition, "Dimitri Von Mohrenschildt has written to me that Bush had employed George de Mohrenschildt during the 1950s in the oil industry."

After penning an unfinished study of Oswald called Patsy, DeMohrenshildt committed suicide in the spring of 1977, shortly before he was slated to testify before the House Select Committee on Assassinations.


http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKdemohrenschildt...


In 1939 he went to work for Humble Oil, a company founded by Prescott Bush. In October, 1962 De Mohrenschildt became friends with Lee Harvey Oswald in Fort Worth. He suggested that Oswald should move to Dallas. In February, 1963 he introduced Marina Oswald and Lee Harvey Oswald to Ruth Paine. On 24th April, 1963, Marina and her daughter went to live with Paine. Oswald rented a room in Dallas but stored some of his possessions in Ruth Paines garage. Ruth also helped Oswald to get a job at the Texas Book Depository



In 1963 De Mohrenschildt moved to Haiti. After the assassination of John F. Kennedy De Mohrenschildt was recalled to America to testify before the Warren Commission. He was asked about the claim of Marina Oswald that he knew about Oswald's attempt to kill General Edwin Walker. After giving evidence he returned to Haiti.

De Mohrenschildt returned to the United States in 1977. He approached Edward Jay Epstein complaining that he was short of money. Epstein offered him $4,000 for an interview. During their talks De Mohrenschildt admitted that in 1962 he had been contacted by J. Walton Moore, who was employed by the Central Intelligence Agency in Dallas. De Mohrenschildt was asked by Moore to find out about Oswald's time in the Soviet Union. In return he was given help with an oil deal he was negotiating with Papa Doc Duvalier, the Haitian dictator. In March 1963, De Mohrenschildt got the contract from the Haitian government. He had assumed that this was because of the help he had given to the CIA.

On 29th March, 1977, Epstein and De Mohrenschildt, broke for lunch and decided to meet again at 3 p.m. George De Mohrenschildt returned to his room where he found a card from Gaeton Fonzi, an investigator working for the Select House Committee on Assassinations. George De Mohrenschildt's body was found later that day. He had apparently committed suicide by shooting himself in the mouth.




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SpaceBuddy008 Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. ships in Cuban Crisis were named the "Barbara" and the "Houston"
Forming a nonviolent resistance movement, on the other hand, might mean forsaking some middle class comfort, and it would doubtless require a lot of work. It would mean educating ourselves and others about the nature of the truly apocalyptic beast we face. It would mean organizing at the most basic neighborhood level, face to face. (We cannot put our trust in the empire's technology.) It would mean reaching across turf lines and transcending single-issue politics, forming coalitions and sharing data and names and strategies, and applying energy at every level of government, local to global. It would also probably mean civil disobedience, at a time when the Bush regime is starting to classify that action as "terrorism." In the end, it may mean organizing a progressive confederacy to govern ourselves, just as our revolutionary founders formed the Continental Congress. It would mean being wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A paradigm shift.

But as a paranoid, I'm ready to join the resistance. And the main reason is I no longer think that the "conspiracy" is much of a "theory."

That the US House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that the murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy was "probably" the result of "a conspiracy," and that 70 percent of Americans agree with this conclusion, is not a "theory." It's fact.

That the Bay of Pigs fiasco, "Operation Zapata," was organized by members of Skull and Bones, the ghoulish and powerful secret society at Yale University whose membership also included Prescott, George Herbert Walker and George W Bush; that two of the ships that carried the Cuban counterrevolutionaries to their appointment with absurdity were named the "Barbara" and the "Houston"George HW Bush's city of residence at the timeand that the oil company Bush owned, then operating in the Caribbean area, was named "Zapata," is not "theory." It's fact.

That George Bush was the CIA director who kept the names of what were estimated to be hundreds of American journalists, considered to be CIA "assets," from the Church Committee, the US Senate Intelligence Committe chaired by Senator Frank Church that investigated the CIA in the 1970s; that a 1971 University of Michigan study concluded that, in America, the more TV you watched, the less you knew; and that a recent survey by international scholars found that Americans were the most "ignorant" of world affairs out of all the populations they studied, is not a "theory." It's fact.

Full Alert @

Paranoid shift

By Michael Hasty

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011...


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
235. Agree with what you so eloquently wrote, SpaceBuddy008!
We've got to stick together if we're going to do anything about these bed-wetting traitors who hijacked our country in 1963. Let's do what we can and work toward the day we get these murderers and traitors on trial.

Regarding Hasty's essay: It's a must-read.

Here's another, from the editor of Salon:


The Mother of All Cover-Ups

Forty years after the Warren Report, the official verdict on the Kennedy assassination, we now know the country's high and mighty were secretly among its biggest critics


by David Talbot
September 15, 2004
Salon.com

Once again, we find ourselves in the season of the Official Report: the 9/11 Commission Report, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Report, the Schlesinger inquiry on Abu Ghraib, among others. And once again the official version is under fire.

The 9/11 Report has been attacked for leaning over backwards, in the spirit of bipartisan unanimity, to avoid pinning blame on the Bush administration for its casual attitude toward terrorist alerts before the calamity and for sidestepping the issue of Saudi involvement. But at least it's won a measure of public respect, due in large part to the vigilance of 9/11 victims' families.

The Senate report on the intelligence failures leading to the Iraq catastrophe has not fared as well, undoubtedly because it lacked the same public oversight. This report went to even greater extremes to keep Bush out of the crosshairs. As Thomas Powers wrote in the New York Review of Books, "No tyrannical father presiding over an intimidated household was ever tiptoed around with greater caution than is the figure of President George W. Bush in the (committee's) fat report."

And the Schlesinger Report on Abu Ghraib has quickly earned itself an utterly contemptuous response, eliciting widespread outrage for giving Defense Secetary Rumsfeld and the Pentagon a sweeping pass on the reign of torture at the prison. While the world shuddered in horror at descriptions of the Abu Ghraib mayhem, James Schlesinger, the former defense secretary picked by Rumsfeld to chair the civilian commission, was considerably less agitated in his response. "Animal house," he blithely called the prison's chambers of violent perversity, a casual assessment which mirrored the forgiving views of Rush Limbaugh, who dismissed the scandal as a frat party gone wild.

So it is only appropriate, in this stormy season of the official version and its discontents, that we observe the 40th anniversary of the Warren Report -- the mother of all such controversies. The vast, 26-volume report was delivered by commission chairman, Chief Justice Earl Warren, to President Johnson on Sept. 24, 1964. The Warren Report concluded that President Kennedy was the victim of a lone, unstable assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald -- as was, conveniently, Oswald himself just two days later, when he was gunned down in the Dallas police station by mob-connected hustler Jack Ruby. The Warren Commission -- itself the victim of massive fraud and manipulation by the FBI and CIA -- came under immediate fire from critics, with its report being denounced as a government cover-up by a growing army of independent researchers. History has not been any kinder to the Warren Report, which has been derided and condemned by everyone from the House Select Committee on Assassinations -- the only other federal panel to exhaustively probe Kennedy's murder, and which found in 1979 that the president was the probable target of a conspiracy -- to Oliver Stone in his explosive 1991 film "JFK" to the History Channel, which routinely airs even the outer limits of conspiracy theories.

CONTINUED...

http://home.earthlink.net/~jkelin1/talbot.html

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. George de Mohrenschildt
Did you know George Herbert Walker Bush's friend George de Mohrenschildt is the only man known to have been friends with both Bush and Lee Harvey Oswald?


http://www.lizmichael.com/bushykno.htm

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
83. How come Jeff Gannon or Corporate McPravda never ask about that?
Most would find it odd to learn that ex-CIA director and president George Herbert Walker Bush was a friend with George de Mohrenschildt, the man known as the friend of Lee Harvey Oswald. Should I get the chance, I know I'll ask about that.

http://www.lizmichael.com/bushykno.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/ohwhy/Bush.html
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #83
144. You are a very curious person Mr. Octafish


in one way and another
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #144
148. The Kennedy Assassination: The Nixon-Bush Connection
Glad I'm not alone on this.



The Kennedy Assassination: The Nixon-Bush Connection

by Paul Kangas

Note: All references to "George Bush" refer to George Herbert Walker Bush, Father of George "Dubya" Bush who was "elected" pResident by a 5 to 4 vote of the Supreme Court.

A newly discovered FBI document reveals that George Bush was directly involved in the 1963 murder of President John Kennedy. The document places Bush working with the now-famous CIA agent, Felix Rodriguez, recruiting right-wing Cuban exiles for the invasion of Cuba. It was Bush's CIA job to organize the Cuban community in Miami for the invasion. The Cubans were trained as marksmen by the CIA. Bush at that time lived in Texas. Hopping from Houston to Miami weekly, Bush spent 1960 and '61 recruiting Cubans in Miami for the invasion. That is how he met Felix Rodriguez.

You may remember Rodriguez as the Iran-contra CIA agent who received the first phone call telling the world the CIA plane flown by Gene Hasenfus had crashed in Nicaragua. As soon as Rodriguez heard that the plane crashed, he called his long-time CIA supervisor, George Bush. Bush denied being in the contra loop, but investigators recently obtained copies of Oliver North's diary, which documents Bush's role as a CIA supervisor of the contra supply network.

SNIP...

That is exactly how evidence was uncovered placing George Bush working with Felix Rodriguez when JFK was killed. A memo from FBI head J. Edgar Hoover was found, stating that, "Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. (Source: The Nation, 8/13/88).

On the day of the assassination Bush was in Texas, but he denies knowing exactly where he was. Since he had been the supervisor for the secret Cuban teams, headed by former Cuban police commander Felix Rodriguez, since 1960, it is likely Bush was also in Dallas in 1963. Several of the Cubans he was supervising as dirty-tricks teams for Nixon, were photographed in the Zagruder film.

In 1959 Rodriguez was a top cop in the Cuban government under Batista. When Batista was overthrown and fled to Miami, Rodriguez went with him, along with Frank Sturgis and Rafael Quintero. Officially, Rodriguez didn't join the CIA until 1967, after the CIA invasion of Cuba, in which he participated, and the assassination of JFK. But records recently uncovered show he actually joined the CIA in 1961 for the invasion of Cuba when he was recruited by George Bush. That is how Rodriguez claims he became a "close personal friend of Bush."

CONTINUED...

http://www.anti-sheep.com/articles/030114-Kennedy-Nixon...

Hey, seemslikeadream! That's a steel box! And my Greek roomie! Where'd you find 'em?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm obsessed with the JFK assisination
and am pretty sure Bush41 was involved. Why? Basically all you mentioned. If you haven't seen the new video JFK II- The Bush Connection from PrisonPlanet.tv you should. It's really good and goes in much detail about the Bush connection leading up to Prescott who was a Nixon supporter and we all know he funded the Nazi's. It is quite telling how he "can't remember" where he was on that day. Even my mother (she's fifty now so she was quite young) remembers that day. She's told me about it before. I don't think Bush41 did any of the direct shooting. We all know how he is with keeping his "hands clean" and having other people do his dirty work. Even today with PNAC. I'm sure he's involved with that as well just his name is nowhere to be found on anything probably. He's been running this country, I think, since that time. In the movie from Alex Jones/PrisonPlanet it shows even Lyndon Johnson was in on it. It is strange how Bush41 called moments after it happened. Probably did to cover his tail. Why else would they lock the documents up till 2025? So he'd never have to pay for his crime(s). I wish we could get this crime family. Poppy and junior.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
138. Nation hasn't been the same since November 22, 1963.
Your mom and I and everyone who can remember life before and after that awful day agree -- There's something terribly wrong and no one with power has been willing to do anything about it. Here's something from the 41st anniversary...



November 22, 1963 is the day President John F. Kennedy died. He was proud to be a Liberal Democrat in the tradition of the Democratic Party of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and President Harry S Truman.

These leaders were statesmen, who believed in using the powers of government to make ours a better nation for ALL Americans. Liberal Democrats believe in the Constitution where it says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

There were 1,036 days from Jan. 20, 1961 to November 22, 1963. Thats 24,864 hours or 1,491,840 minutes or 89,510,400 seconds.

The periods been called the thousand days of Camelot. Really just a blink of an eye, for America it means more than that. It truly was a legendary time and America truly was a magical place a place where anything was possible.

Consider what President Kennedy worked to achieve: He raised the minimum wage, cut taxes, kept America from nuclear annihilation twice, maintained world peace, set about to bring equal rights for all Americans, got the country to invest in the arts and education, and set out to do the impossible land an American on the Moon and return him safely to the Earth. He did all that in a thousand days.

A thousand days. That is not much time considering how much JFK accomplished. And President Kennedy used each day to make ours a better nation for ALL Americans.
My, how things have changed. Heres a bit of reality programming whats happened in the 14,869 days since November 22, 1963:

Vietnam
Guatemala
Chile
Watergate
October Surprise
El Salvador
Reagan Survives Hinckley and Bush
Voodoo Economics
INSLAW/Promis
Haiti
Iraq-gate / Banca Nazionale del Lavoro arms
BCCI International Money Laundering for Terrorists & Intelligence Community
Savings & Loan scandal in general and Silverado in particular
Iran-contra Guns/Drugs/Martial Law
Gulf War I Glaspie Gives Go-Ahead
Selection 2000 Shreds US Constitution
Tax Cuts for UltraRich
Criminal Justice Department
Suicidal Environmental Policy
ENRON Energy Policy
9-11 Criminal Negligence, at best; Treason, most likely
Illegal Iraq Invasion

Its interesting in reviewing the above list, just how much conservative neo-con corrupt Republican leadership has really been a Contract On America. The list demonstrates there have been puhlenty of business opportunities in the finance, energy, and defense industries; But, that brief listing doesnt sound like its been a good deal for the average American for the past four decades.

And while there have been occasional flashes of the old Democratic magic in the administrations of James Earl Carter and William Jefferson Clinton, the fact of the matter is things havent really been the same since JFKs leadership.
While times may change, one name runs through all the history, the four decades since the JFK administration. Since the very hour of President Kennedys death, and through the list of sinister events and unrelenting nefarity noted above a record of infamy stretching back 40 years, 8 months and 16 days appears the name George Herbert Walker Bush.

Octafish

Original thread's a doozy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #138
156. Even though I wasn't a live then
Kennedy has been an inspiration to me as a person and a fellow democrat. He was such an amazing person and all his policies and what he did. Now we know why "they" wanted him gone. He was very progressive. Think of what would've happened if he wasn't killed. I just hope and wish we could get those who were involved in the asssisination no matter who was involved. :argh: :cry:
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. I always figured our fucking government had JFK killed
He was too popular, too insightful and wanted too much done. Somebody didn't like that.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Exactly
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 11:19 PM by FreedomAngel82
And the whole Kennedy family they want out of the way I'm sure (I'm surprised some are still left). Even John junior's plane crash. I remember that. I remember feeling something not right with that "crash." :argh:
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Me too
The info that was given to the whore media was sparce, and what was there just didn't fit. Little John wasn't a threat to anybody. He had no intentions of running for public office and I believe he just wanted to be left alone.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
67. Right
There was this whole hype about him though I think and being a great politician like his father and I think he did some things before he died. But why kill a whole plane of people including John junior and his wife?
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
176. wrong, he was contemplating running for office in New York ...gee ...
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
70. John Newman's work on JFK and Vietnam. He WAS going to pull
us troops out. Vietnam wasn't as important as Berlin ferchrisssakes. But the drug running ops from Golden Triangle set up with Wild Bill Donovan in the mid 50's (Donovan was amb to Thailand then and later, as the Cuban revolution came about and Castro came in in '59) and SEAsia became the forefront of an 'off record', non-congressional funding enterprise ...

As JFK manuvered to pull us out of there, the CIA was manuvering to pull us in.

The Knights of Malta connections to Donovan, Angleton, and Cardinal Cody of Chicago play heavily into this along with Clay Shaw's KOM and Trade Mart setup. Where were the drugs being processed and what role was Turkey playing at the time ? Hmmm.

And Oswald's military background.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #70
135. IMO, Professor John Newman saved our country.
The guy stood up and said he wanted to find out the Truth. Most of the officer corps in the Pentagon may be Republicans, but the vast majority of them are good Americans first and formost. They swear allegiance to the Constitution.

Professor Newman, while a US Army major teaching history at West Point, discovered that there was a big gap in the historical record of the US's involvement in Vietnam in the period around the assassination of President Kennedy.

In short, Newman uncovered National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) 263, which stated the US would pull all troops out of Vietnam after the US election in 1964. The war there was unwinnable Kennedy knew, from CIA reports and what Gen. Douglas MacArthur told him.

Within days of his murder, new president Lyndon B Johnson issued NSAM 273, which stated the US would extend to the government of South Vietnam whatever level of support was needed to fight the commies. This directly countermanded JFK's previous orders.

Of course, we know the rest of the story, in a way. Johnson (or the bosses at the Pentagon and CIA) lied to the American public, stating the North Vietnamese attacked US warships in the Gulf of Tonkin. That was a lie, as has been most of official US history since November 22, 1963.

PS: Contrast Newman's search for truth with the "work" of Nixon plumber and "ex" CIA fellah E Howard Hunt, who was ordered to create phony cables implicating JFK in the murders of President Diem of South Vietnam during the coup there in November 1963. Gee. Who'd that benefit? The War Party? The BFEE? The world's ultra-rich?
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
99. Try: destabilize and reap war profits.
That's what the Bush's did for WWI, then again with the Nazis.

Cuba needed a good botched Bay of Pigs or successful Nortwoods start and fast war profits would follow.

Perhaps Korea only needed a Chinese ambassador to hint around. Vietnam, only needed a few advisors -- but, who advised on the need for advisors -- I don't know.

Republicans did leave Afghanistan without funds after they helped us fight Russians. This conservative approach left them with binladen and us with an unwatched binladen.

Republicans were too conservative to fund a new light-water reactor for North Korea. Now they have nukes.

Support upstart knee-jerk antagonistic Sharon in Isreal. Remove Aristide from Haiti. Push around Chavez in Venezuela. Thatcher's son runs around, not knowing(ahem), that his plane carries mercenaries.

DESTABILIZE AND REAP FAST WAR PROFITS.

Sell arms to Iran and Iraq. Sell angle drilling equipment to Kuwait for their Iraq border drilling, then send a message saying the US does not care about border disputes, then have a Kuwaiti royal say Saddam threw babies out of incubators.

and on and on and on.

Well, the world is full of plans made to justify the plans made by people who are planning for a living. Solutions is a game taught by men with changing names who are charging very high for what they're giving. Well, just accept that we've gone mad, or just accept that we've gone bad, and go on numbly through the day. But, there are times when it's just too much too quiet. When it's foolish to accept the price you pay. So, I step out of the line and say what's on my mind. Found posting DU is just my way, of communicating what I have to say.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. Has anyone considered why the Chimp is so unbelievably paranoid?
He knows how easy it is for people to get away with murdering political figures. He knows the role his father played.

How bizarre the assassination attempt on Reagan, eh? I guess George H.W. Bush was in a wee bit of a hurry. That "trying to impress Jodi Foster" story always stunk.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #33
65. Remember
the "pretzel" incident?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
141. Typical mocking response to Octafish's hard work and honest efforts.
Typical for you, anyway.

The rest of us appreciate his National Security Archives discoveries.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #141
185. Thanks, blm! Here's the 'Simple Country Truth'
This was written a while ago. Before Iraq and WMDs and so forth. Still, it's pertinent...

The Assassination of John F. Kennedy as Coup D'Etat

by Christopher Sharrett

EXCERPT...

Let me make it country simple. The evidence in the assassination of John Kennedy was taken control of and represented to the public by those sectors of state and private power that despised Kennedy and his policies, and who saw them as representative of a long-term trend within the state to avoid the direct military interventionism that would be a great boon to many components of American capital. It is true that Mafia types and various exile groupings appear within the assassination scenario. These same groups appear within Watergate and Iran/Contra. Does appreciating the presence of these groups go very far in aiding our understanding of these events as state crimes, in fact as crimes against the Constitution and the people of the U.S. carried out by state authority? Does the presence of these groups make these crimes other than state crimes? More important, would the American media and much of officialdom continue to attempt to bolster the various official narratives as a favor to the Mafia and some Cuban exiles? Would they do this to prevent a member of the Kennedy clan, or Allen Dulles or J. Edgar Hoover, from being "embarrassed"? Would they do this to prevent hostile relations with other lands, even years after the collapse of the Soviet Union? Many critics suggest that data long in the hands of researchers, such as the Joseph Milteer tapes, point to the source of the plot within crazed rightist groupings. Did not the federal authorities have access to these tapes many years ago? Were they attempting to assist a southern racist group by hiding Milteer's connections to the assassination? I suggest that these provocative tapes, which have been ensconced in the public imagination as symbols of the plot, were another small attempt to divert public attention from the state's implication in the assassination.

I would hope that eventually we would have no more talk of Shadow Governments and Cabals. The invisible government discussed by various researchers is no more invisible than our political-economic system. This system is synonymous with the postwar national security state. Kennedy was killed when he became a flashpoint for a debate that began immediately with the creation of this state. The Great Depression brought U.S. capitalism to its knees; this terrible economic collapse was halted only by the wartime military build-up. The collapse threatened an immediate return after the war, and was prevented by the government's hooking the economy to military production. The public was forced to subsidize the biggest military expansion in history as corporations began to depend on public revenue for their survival. Many within state power saw the potential problems of the new "Pentagon system." Senator Arthur Vandenberg told President Harry Truman: "You are going to have to scare the hell out of the public" in order for them to accept a huge increase in taxes, and an economic system that would give extraordinary authority to the military and the intelligence agencies, who soon became essentially lobbyists for sectors of capital involved in military production. Indeed, fear became the currency of the national security state. Although the Soviet Union suffered twenty-seven million dead in World War II, with most of its major cities and industrial plant destroyed, the American public coughed up billions of dollars to support the U.S. "free enterprise" system and its expansionist aims, as public programs soon went begging.

Cold War propaganda gave legitimacy to the national security state, although debate raged on within state and private power against the backdrop of the sleepy fifties.22 Many felt that the creation of the "garrison state" would bring about an enormous deficit and weaken us in relation to our Western capitalist rivals. Kennedy was not the first victim of the fierce internecine battles that began almost immediately with the creation of the national security state. Secretary of Defense James V. Forrestal became a victim in 1949 of what was referred to as "the revolt of the admirals." As each sector of the military fought over their share of public revenues, with the Joint Chiefs "at each other's throat" in a climate of unbridled avarice, Forrestal attempted at least to inject a note of civility as the military sensed its unprecedented authority. Forrestal was eventually "ground down by the bickering and backstabbing in the Pentagon." He was "under constant attack from the admirals and generals he supposedly commanded." The national security state's lapdogs in the press, including Walter Winchell and Drew Pearson, ridiculed Forrestal, terming him a "liar and a coward."23 Forrestal suffered a nervous breakdown and eventually committed suicide.

Like many in the previous administration, Eisenhower faced problems in reigning in the national security state. Long before he spoke of the "military-industrial complex," Eisenhower warned America and the world "humanity was hanging from a cross of iron." He stated that "every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired," represented "a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."24

Into this arena entered John Kennedy, at first arguing that the U.S. faced a bogus "missile gap" in its competition with the Soviets, but soon arguing against the plans of the Joint Chiefs and the CIA for massive military incursions into Southeast Asia and the Caribbean. The body of John Kennedy, and all evidence related to his murder, was commandeered and represented to the public by the military and the intelligence agencies. After the assassination, Cuba was placed on the back burner (under a terrible economic blackmail), as the state undertook a massive incursion into Southeast Asia that was a major boondoggle for corporate America. This incursion proved ultimately disastrous both to America's economy and its credibility with its own people and those of the world. In the administrations of the 1970s, the temptation toward such severe military adventure was avoided. During the Reagan years, the state began testing the waters of public opinion as it propagandized this public with new Cold War rhetoric. The Reagan crowd undertook murderous counterinsurgency against socialist movements in Central America --- but with a huge military strikeforce waiting in the wings. Again, the other side of the imperialist table --- the side that demanded an immediate financial payoff from overwhelming military contracts --- began to show its clout. The Reagan/Bush years saw the shift within the state toward massive military intervention, first on the small scale blitzkrieg level (Libya, Grenada, Panama), then larger adventures (the Gulf War) with the advance of the new Rambo mindset within the American public. Over these many years, intelligence satraps in the heavily corporatized "liberal" (can there be a bigger red herring than public acquiescence to this notion?) mass media, have lauded these adventures as they continue to present the official stories of the assassination. They are the same people and organizations who advocate for the new supranational corporate state that guarantees the immiseration of millions.

CONTINUED...

http://home.earthlink.net/~jkelin1/coup.html
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. Kick for truth!
:kick:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
145. Thanks, Swampus Rattiticus! Didja hear Rehnquist was asked to investigate?
I kid you not! One brave fellow wrote to him and sent copies of these FBI memos, asking the drugged out turd to look into Poppy's shenanigans. He also CC'd the rest of the Supreme Court. Hope he BCC'd his attorneys...


Letter To Chief
Justice Rehnquist
From Stephen M. St. John


2-10-5

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist
Supreme Court of the United States
1 First Street, N. E. Washington, DC 20543

January 31, 2005

Dear Chief Justice Rehnquist,

I write to you as a concerned citizen of the United States who is a Federal employee under oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I am asking you to focus on a very grave matter fraught with serious implications touching on the conduct of former President George Herbert Walker Bush. Primary documentary evidence, as set forth below and in attachments to this letter, shows that George H. W. Bush was in Dallas, Texas on the day of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and that on the next day he served as a conduit of disinformation so as to promote a misleading public perception of the person accused of the crime, Lee Harvey Oswald.

My doubts about former President Bush emanate from careful consideration of two memos of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, one written by the Director John Edgar Hoover and dated 29 November 1963, and the other by Special Agent Graham W. Kitchel and dated 22 November 1963, the very day of the JFK assassination. (I became aware of the Hoover memo in 1990 and obtained a copy of it directly from FBI Headquarters in Washington, DC on a visit there in June of 1991. This Hoover memo was published the same year in Mark Lane's Plausible Denial and a year later in Robert Morrow's Firsthand Knowledge. I became aware of the Kitchel memo in 2003 and that same year obtained a copy of it by mail from the National Archives. The Kitchel memo is not as well known to researchers as the Hoover memo and as far as I know it has never been published.)

As I will explain below, the Hoover and Kitchel memos help interpret each other. Perhaps by coincidence only and certainly unbeknownst to me at the time, the Kitchel memo was declassified on 15 October 1993, exactly two days after I had hand-delivered complaints of judicial misconduct (93-8533 and 93-8534), which are relevant to the topic of this letter, to the Clerk of the United States Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit, according to provisions set forth in the Judicial Conduct and Disability Act of 1980 (28 U.S.C.372(c)). Whatever the case, the Kitchel memo establishes George H. W. Bush's whereabouts in Dallas the day Kennedy died and the next day, 23 November 1963, the day before the assassination of the accused, Lee Harvey Oswald.

After perusal of the Kitchel memo (see attached) obvious questions arise, which I believe explain why this memo remained hidden from certain investigators for three decades and from me for four decades. Why did George H. W. Bush wait until after JFK was pronounced dead to inform on a Houston resident who allegedly was making threats against the president? Why did Bush wait a day, until after JFK had visited Houston on 21 November, to pass this information to the FBI? Why did Bush withhold potentially useful information known to him for weeks before JFK's trip to Texas and then reveal it to the FBI when it was too late to act upon? Why did Bush fail to give a timely warning? Will George H. W. Bush take the answers to these questions to the grave? I hope not!

Bearing in mind that the Kitchel memo reveals Bush's need for confidentiality with respect to his untimely reporting of hearsay from a "source unknown" as well as his advice to the FBI to contact his colleagues at the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters for further information, I have concluded that Bush was establishing in his telephone contact with Kitchel a pretext for being in Dallas on the 22nd and 23rd of November 1963 so as to disguise a purpose entirely different than simply giving what we now know with benefit of hindsight to be useless information. That entirely different purpose is revealed in the Hoover memo (see attached).

CONTINUED...

http://www.rense.com/general62/letter.htm
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #145
155. That's like writing Satan to tell him to investigate the Anti-Christ
or vice versa. x(




:kick:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #155
168. Same people.
Small world. And very, very bad.



16 Questions on the Assassination

By Bertrand Russell
The Minority of One, 6 September 1964, pp. 6-8.

The official version of the assassination of President Kennedy has been so riddled with contradictions that it is been abandoned and rewritten no less than three times. Blatant fabrications have received very widespread coverage by the mass media, but denials of these same lies have gone unpublished. Photographs, evidence and affidavits have been doctored out of recognition. Some of the most important aspects of the case against Lee Harvey Oswald have been completely blacked out. Meanwhile, the F.B.I., the police and the Secret Service have tried to silence key witnesses or instruct them what evidence to give. Others involved have disappeared or died in extraordinary circumstances.

It is facts such as these that demand attention, and which the Warren Commission should have regarded as vital. Although I am writing before the publication of the Warren Commissions report, leaks to the press have made much of its contents predictable. Because of the high office of its members and the fact of its establishment by President Johnson, the Commission has been widely regarded as a body of holy men appointed to pronounce the truth. An impartial examination of the composition and conduct of the Commission suggests quite otherwise.

The Warren Commission has been utterly unrepresentative of the American people. It consisted of two Democrats, Senator Russell of Georgia and Congressman Boggs of Louisiana, both of whose racist views have brought shame on the United States; two Republicans, Senator Cooper of Kentucky and Congressman Gerald R. Ford of Michigan, the latter of whom is a leader of his local Goldwater movement and an associate of the F.B.I.; Allen Dulles, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and Mr. McCloy, who has been referred to as the spokesman for the business community. Leadership of the filibuster in the Senate against the Civil Rights Bill prevented Senator Russell from attending hearings during the period. The Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, Earl Warren, who rightly commands respect, was finally persuaded, much against his will, to preside over the Commission, and it was his involvement above all else that helped lend the Commission an aura of legality and authority. Yet many of its members were also members of those very groups which have done so much to distort and suppress the facts about the assassination. Because of their connection with the Government, not one member would have been permitted under U.S. law to serve on a jury had Oswald faced trial. It is small wonder that the Chief Justice himself remarked that the release of some of the Commissions information might not be in your lifetime Here, then, is my first question: Why were all the members of the Warren Commission closely connected with the U.S. Government?

If the composition of the Commission was suspect, its conduct confirmed ones worst fears. No counsel was permitted to act for Oswald, so that cross-examination was barred. Later, under pressure, the Commission appointed the President of the American Bar Association, Walter Craig, one of the supporters of the Goldwater movement in Arizona, to represent Oswald. To my knowledge, he did not attend hearings, but satisfied himself with representation by observers.

CONTINUED MUST READ FOR THOSE CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO DEMOCRACY...

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/russell/Sixtee...




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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. Great photo of Klaus Kinski
My grandfather and grandmother knew Bertrand Russell (W. W. Norton, etc.) and worked with him in the 1930s for the peace movement. I wish I could post the photos (my grandfather, who was a writer/biographer, also knew Brandeis and Holmes, Firestone, Einstein, and others).
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #169
186. I knew I was in the presence of greatness, Rattie!
Your family shines through in you and your work. As they, you helped build America into greatness. As they, you are helping build a better world for all people.

I am honored to know you and, through you, your family.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #145
177. would love to see the real killer responsible for the murder of JFK
brought to justice while I am still alive ...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #177
189. Me, too, NVMojo! There were a LOT of Them.
There are still a LOT of Them alive. Plus their bureaucratic descendants in the Secret Service, CIA, Pentagon, Corporate McPravda, etc etc etc.

Here's a good start for those new to the subject: Check out the motorcade route. Don't think a lone nut would have the power to suggest changing the course to make the turn toward the Book Depository. That, like what's below, should open a few eyes and minds...



The Assassination of John F. Kennedy as Coup D'Etat

by Christopher Sharrett

It occurs to me that two lines of discourse currently affect public understanding of the John Kennedy assassination. Both narratives obscure the reality of the assassination as a state crime carried out by the official enforcement apparatus, a coup d'etat.

One narrative that informs numerous conspiracy books details a plot to kill Kennedy consisting of some small, marginal grouping, usually including the Mafia and anti-Castro Cubans (although at times including pro-Castro Cubans), occasionally with support of one or two "renegade" CIA agents. This narrative, which has been in circulation at least since the 1970s, seems to me to have a particular function in shaping our perception of the assassination and events surrounding it. The second narrative, which is becoming steadily more dominant, acknowledges that there was indeed an official cover-up of the assassination, but that this cover-up was "benign," in the interests of the American people, and spontaneously constructed in order to avoid a confrontation with the Soviet Union or Cuba, who were suspected by some in state power of being the real assassins. One recent variation of this narrative argues that this cover-up was put in place largely to protect the public from the consequences of the Kennedy brothers' depraved foreign policy. This narrative also argues that while Oswald was the lone assassin, Castro perhaps influenced him. But the whole affair comes down to the ruthless prosecution of the Cold War by the Kennedys, often against the sober counsel of others within state power.

The small-scale conspiracy model indeed dates to the post-Vietnam, post-Watergate period, when state power suffered one of many profound legitimation crises. The cover-ups of the assassinations of the 1960s had already unraveled; an issue for many who wished to relegitimate the state was the most efficient way to acknowledge the public's skepticism, and in so doing reconstruct the state's authority and credibility. The small-scale cabal is most efficient at the task, even as it defies reason. It offers a conspiracy that addresses many concerns, at least for those people who do not wish to look at the particulars of the assassination, its historical moment, and its context within similar acts known to history. The exposure of a conspiracy of the Mafia and some Cubans would have only further legitimated the state, since it offered a conspiracy that is an unfortunate, arcane aberration unrepresentative of true state interests. The CIA agents involved are described as "renegade" and "rogue elephants" for the same reasons. These agents are portrayed not as functionaries of the state, not as representatives of policy interests held by others in authority, but as loners working out of personal, pathological impulse or overzealous ideology. This is often suggested to be the case in the matter of David Atlee Phillips --- whose involvement in the assassination has been incontrovertibly demonstrated by Gaeton Fonzi --- even when we know that Phillips, the renegade, was given a major promotion within the executive ranks of the CIA. Another function of this form of narrative is the erasure of the historical moment and the presentation of the Kennedy period as ideologically seamless. The historical record tells us that the period leading up to the assassination was filled with conflict within the halls of state.

This conflict was actually reflected in contemporary press accounts of the period. One account is Harry S.Truman's Washington Post article, published exactly one month after the assassination (and not mentioned by anyone since) in which Truman expressed profound concern about the CIA's violation of its initial mandate. Another piece is Arthur Krock's Oct. 3, 1963 New York Times article, published just over a month before the assassination, detailing an "intra-administration war" directed at Kennedy from the CIA. These articles articulate real, material conditions of the Kennedy Administration that any reasonable person must examine if interested in motivations within the state to remove Kennedy from office. Kennedy himself spoke to the importance of these matters. After reading the novel Seven Days in May in the wake of the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy confided to his friend Red Fay that after one or two more such episodes (and we know about the Missile Crisis --- about which more in a moment --- the Test Ban Treaty, and the American University speech), he could be perceived as weak and "soft on Communism" by others in state authority, and a coup d'etat was conceivable.1 Kennedy encouraged director John Frankenheimer to film the novel in order to further sensitize the public to the political dynamics of the period.

Many critics argue that the leading and intimidation of witnesses during the investigation by governmental authorities may merely reflect the typical bullying by Hoover's FBI. But much of the investigation, and certainly its presentation to the public, was accomplished not by crude bullies but by sophisticated, erudite men learned and respectful of the law. Many critics also suggest that emotionalism and the panic of the moment could have motivated the prompt removal of Kennedy's body from the jurisdiction of the murder. Did emotionalism also motivate the removal and reconstruction of the presidential limousine, and subsequent destruction of forensic evidence? Did the panic of that afternoon motivate continued obfuscation about the smallest details of the assassination even thirty years after the crime?

CONTINUED...

http://home.earthlink.net/~jkelin1/coup.html

I brought this up above, in thanks to blm. While it's not a perfect analysis, and there's a lot of new stuff to add, and I don't agree with everything...yadayada... I think you'll agree it's worth spreading about...

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. Truth is our most powerful weapon!
Those evil madmen have many enemies but the TRUTH is what will ultimately destroy them.

Peace!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
146. Thanks, Fuji! The pen is mightier than the sword for a reason.
...And that is the Truth.

If we keep spreading the word on these bed-wetting bastids and what they've done to America, perhaps sooner, rather than later, they will be where they belong -- making little rocks out of big rocks by day and sharing a bunk with fevered memories of lives mis-spent at night.

Perhaps in the mercy of great justice, once their bodies and minds break down a bit, they can get easier jobs...

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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
43. I've always wondered about Poppy's claim he could not remember
where he was when he heard the news? Who amongst us old enough to remember that day do not know where we were when we heard the news? I was only six, I remember it vividly and will never forget it. Many other things I have since forgotten. Never that day and never that moment. So, back to the question, why can't Poppy remember, he was much older than I?
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FDU Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #43
60. That is so true.
I've often wondered that myself. Something's just not right.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
68. Right
It is quite strange. I remember everything on the day of 9/11 so it is quite telling. My mother was young (she's fifty now) and has told me that she remembers that day and watching the news and everything.
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StaggerLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #68
84. My mom is 59
She says she was ironing clothes when she heard the breaking news on the radio.

Everyone seems to remember where they were, what they were doing etc.

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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #84
88. I was 12 years old, I remember everything about that day.
I can go back to my elementary classroom and show you where I was sitting.

My cousin was two blocks away in Dallas and they heard shots.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. I was just 12 by 5 days and it will always be etched in my mind.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 11:40 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
I was in my JHS Social Studies class and the principal came into the room and whispered something to my teacher. My teacher blanched, and quietly told us that the President was shot. At that point it hadn't been announced that he died. We were immediately sent home from school (getting the chills here remembering). I remember the kids on the bus not understanding the seriousness of this, thinking that shot was actually wounded, and some were even kidding about it. When I reached home I turned on the tv immediately and from thoughts that he was just wounded, learned that he was dead.

I don't think I moved from the television set until after his funeral, and even saw Oswald shot by Ruby live.

My sister was on her honeymoon in Puerto Rico and she saw a woman walking on the beach, crying hysterically. That's how she found out.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #90
98. Ommmm, I'm curious about seeing Oswald shot, live.
Everyone talks about their reaction to hearing JFK was killed, but I've seen very little talking about the reaction to Oswald's murder. How did you feel when you saw it? I would think it could be traumatizing to see anyone killed, much less under these horrific circumstances, coming so close to JFK's death. At the time, would you say there was any doubt for the average person that Oswald did it? Or was seeing him shot like, "oh no, now we'll never know the full truth!"
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
106.  seeing Oswald shot, live....I remember it, I was 8 was watching it as
all three networks were covering it. I remember how shocked I was, not by it, but my parents reaction to it..I was but a youngin...It tramatized the nation. It felt like, we will never know WHY. And we don't offically. The Warren Commission did little to bring out the why...Lone nut gunman. Never added up.


Why 9/11 was so affective, it tramatized the nation to see those buildings fall like that, to see that jetliner crash into that building....and the Public is still easily led when tramatized.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. nice avatar, Dear Abby (grin)! And yes,
Public trauma does have an odd effect on people in the aggregate, as well as on the individual. I wasn't born yet when JFK was shot, so I can't speak to that, but I can say that immediately after 9/11 I found myself thinking that perhaps "they" DID "hate us for our freedoms." Egad, I even remember seeing Bush choke up at one point, saying, "I'm a loving man, you know; this affects me, too," and thinking maybe I was all wrong about the guy. Within a matter of days I regained my sanity, though. Whew!
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #98
113. When I saw Oswald killed I was pretty detached from it.
Seeing it happen on tv was like watching a movie, so there was no trauma. It all happened so fast too and lots of confusion if you have ever seen film of it. Did I say to myself "oh no, we'll never know the truth now", definitely not. Those were different times. The talking heads were saying that Oswald did it, and you just believed it, especially when you're a kid.

It took me until I was 15 to start question all of the garbage being fed to us.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #113
129. Yes, I've seen the footage, and I know what you mean.
It's just of a scuffle, people rushing around... it's not really until you see it in slow motion that you can tell what really happened. Whenever I see it, I'm struck by the quality of the video, as compared to some other contemporary footage, but even slowed down it's confusing. Ruby just seems to come out of nowhere.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #113
132. I saw it on TV live and I assumed that Ruby loved JFK and flipped out.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 08:49 PM by higher class
The entire weekend was traumatic and the trauma lingers to this day.

We all believed Oswald did it...but then we heard about Ruby and his connections and that ultra-magical bullet that took all those 45 degre turns and that was it for me.

I was a little indifferent to JFK because I came from a Republican family (though I was happy that a Catholic was able to get elected), but I kept my ears open and little things came out that made me think and I was able to learn more about him in death than I knew the day before he died. I was converted by the idealism that he spread throughout the world. I would love to have the articles that appeared in newspapers and magazines about the devotion and mourning in every little tent and mudhouse all over the world. I remember seeing photos of some of the places - a little hut up in the Himalayas of Nepal. And I actually saw his picture still hanging in many little stores in places I travelled to in later years.

I figured that these people 'knew heart'.

I now adore him for standing up to the war brass, but we didn't have him to continue to inspire us.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #113
133. I was watching Oswald being shot and had no idea what was happening.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 09:01 PM by gordianot
I am convinced there must be a whole generation who have traumatic stress. For me all of the emotions have never gone away, it was my first real experience with death.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #113
158. I think on that day
it's the day we all died. Even those of us like myself who weren't even a live yet. Everything with the media and the government cover ups etc.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #158
166. Yes, that was the defining moment when the thugs knew that they
could do just about anything, and get away with it. I believe that the seeds started even before I was born.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #98
116. Seeing Oswald shot was like this: Oh my God, this IS a conspiracy!
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 04:22 PM by Zen Democrat
People had been talking about conspiracy. I remember my dad saying, "Well, if there is a conspiracy, they'll get rid of Oswald." Two hours later that Sunday morning, he was shot dead.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #116
130. Whoa, Zen, that's pretty wild.
That must have really affected your viewpoint of not only this particular event but of the government in general. Did that shape your political beliefs?
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #98
151. I was only 17 at the time...
...but I remember absolute shock and disbelief at seeing Oswald gunned down and a horrible sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. I cried more during that week than I ever had before or since.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #90
157. Something that's really amazing with Kennedy
is how everyone loved him. Republicans and democrats a like. Texas went blue for crying out loud. And people are still effected with their memories of his death. It's truly amazing personally.
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Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #88
122. Wow, I was 12 yrs old, too
I recall walking home from school on that day, confused over what had happened.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #122
134. Frankly I am still confused.
Bush II has convinced me there is little or no justice.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
150. Believe me, he remembers...
Everybody who was alive that day remembers. I was in English class my senior year of high school. It was very shocking to us because JFK had just been in our city a day or two before. EVERYBODY remembers where they were. GHW Bush is a liar.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #150
159. I agree with you
If my Mom was a little kid then and remembers watching it on the tv surely Poppy does as an adult.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #43
163. I was only 5
but I still remember it. My grandmother and I were watching television and saw it. And the funeral is burned into my memory...I still can see Jackie, Carolyn and John-John (as he was called) standing so bravely as the casket rolled by. It still makes me cry. Sometimes I think the real America died with JFK. It seemed to get so ugly after wards. Alas, for the dream of Camelot.

Then later I saw RFK killed and knew something was wrong.

What a childhood, assinations, riots and body bags. No wonder I have an odd view of the world.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #163
179. ...and don't forget Malcolm X and Martin Luther King!!
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
246. Duh! I was FOUR and I remember hearing my mom screaming
and crying in the living room and running in there to find out what was wrong. I remember crying too because I was about the same age as John Jr and Caroline was not much older, and I was so sad that they could lose their daddy.
FOUR.
What a bunch of BuSHIT.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
44. Operation Zapata..the code name for the Bay of Pigs invasion and
Papa Bush's company was Zapata Oil. I don't think there is a coincidence in that.

There is a fascinating video out there JFKII: The Bush Connection that really does make one wonder. http://www.jfkii.com /

I was wondering way before seeing the video.

As to the Other George Bush: From George Bush's Unauthorized Biography
by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin

http://www.tarpley.net/bush8b.htm
George William Bush had indeed worked for the CIA, the DIA, and the Alexandria, Virginia Department of Public Welfare before joining the Social Security Administration, in whose Arlington, Virginia office he was employed as a claims representative in 1988. George William Bush told The Nation that while at the CIA he was "just a lowly researcher and analyst" who worked with documents and photos and never received interagency briefings. He had never met Forsyth of the FBI or Captain Edwards of the DIA. "So it wasn't me," said George William Bush. 21

The rest of this link is real great reading.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #44
54. How long and how many connections in the CIA....
Do you have to have to become it's director....

As GHWB became in 1976...

To be named director. He was very entrenched in the CIA for many years.



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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. I believe his involvement must have been from the get go through
his father. I have read that Grandpa Bush was involved with Operation Paperclip which brought Nazis into the country from Germany. Many were put in the newly formed CIA which was also founded by an "ex-Nazi".
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #54
73. Just me wondering
He wasn't part of the CIA before he became director was he?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #44
71. That's a really good video
and gives you a LOT to think about and they show the connections and based on facts. Here's a link with the video if you all want to download it before buying. Please note that there is some graphic stuff on there. I watched it before going to bed one night and a no-no if you're like me and can't stomach some stuff. http://server2.reasonablehosting.com/jfkbush /

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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #71
78. Thank You Freedom Angel! Everyone please see above posts link!
I was looking for a free link online to share and you have it! I have access to it at Prisonplanet.tv but that's by subscription only.

Everyone should watch it!

Thank you again and peace!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #78
160. You're welcome
I remember seeing it somewhere and just googled for it and found it. ;) Of course I saved it.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #71
81. I would like to add about one thing I found fascinating about
the video is how it claims that Oswald was acting as an informer for J. Edgar Hoover as a spy on the covert activities of the CIA.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #71
105. Holy shit!! Without a doubt, this is one of the best video I've watched...
...on the JFK murder and it is in the style of Michael Moore's F9-11.

Thanks
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #71
120. The video and the audio interview were both terrific, question
...since the audio interview was conducted on Feb 3, 2005 and the author John, who was being interviewed briefly touched on his new video of the JFK Jr plane crash circumstances, is that video and follow up interview available now on the net? If so, does anyone have a link?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #120
161. Is there any video's
Edited on Wed Mar-16-05 12:26 AM by FreedomAngel82
on JFK junior's plane crash? I remember that day and when it happened. I was home and down here on the computer and it came on national news about his "crash." I've always been very intune with my intuition and stuff and remember thinking how something wasn't right with the plane crash. Wasn't junior flying it? I thought I read about that on a Kennedy site earlier this morning. I think he was just getting started in politics and hadn't been married too long. Everybody, I remember, had high hopes from him and hoping he'd one day be like his dad. Maybe someone saw him as a threat. I'm surprised any Kennedy is left personally.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #44
72. Bay of Pigs is surrounded by the Zapata swamps in southern Cuba n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #44
209. Much obliged about www.JFKII.com.
"Murder will out" has kept so many going forward. The suspicion was always there -- very much appreciate that someone put together facts on John F. Kennedy, Jr.'s plane crash was no accident. The fascist bastards (ultra-conservative falangist corporatist warmongers) who killed his father need to brought to justice. The more people who learn the Truth; the faster that day will come.

Regarding Tarpley and Chaitkin: They put down on paper what's missing from television, news and talk radio, the newspapers, news magazines and history books. The Truth.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
47. Here's more
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #47
74. Nice site
Never seen this one before. I bookedmarked it to come by later after class.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
91. That is a very good site, has a lot to digest, I don't completely...
...accept the conclusion that the mafia was the brainchild of the Kennedy murder, but could have most definitely had a role at setting up and contracting the actual hit-men/shooters. Thanks for that link.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #91
162. Oh right I'm with you
Maybe Poppy and those involved got them to get some good shooters. Wasn't Oswald a part of that?
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #47
208. Scariest photo on that website is Prescott Bush grooming Richard Nixon.

(Prescott Bush and Richard Nixon, ca. 1950?)

Fascism Sr. preparing Fascism Jr. for the next generation of fun and games with weapons...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #47
211. Lots of stuff at http://jfkmurdersolved.com
Much great information in a handy-to-find form. I hadn't heard the David Atlee Phillips "confession." DAP was identified by HSCA investigator Gaeton Fonzi as being the CIA's man on the scene with the anti-Castro Cuban shooting community. Wow!!!

Email from Shawn Phillips

The "Confession", you refer to was not in so many words as such. I cannot remember the time frames involved, but this was what was told to me by my father, James Atlee Phillips, who is deceased. He said that David had called him with reference to his (Davids), invitation to a dinner, by a man who was purportedly writing a book on the CIA. At this dinner, was also present a man who was identified only as the "Driver". David told Jim that he knew the man was there to identify him as Raul Salcedo, whose name you should be familiar with, if your research is accurate in this matter. David then told Jim that he had written a letter to the various media, as a "Preemptive Strike" , against any and all allegations about his involvement in the JFK assassination. Jim knew that David was the head of the "Retired Intelligence Officers of the CIA", or some such organization, and that he was extremely critical of JFK, and his policies. Jim knew at that point, that David was in some way, seriously involved in this matter and he and David argued rather vehemently, resulting in a silent hiatus between them that lasted almost six years according to Jim. Finally, as David was dying of irreversible lung cancer, he called Jim and there was apparently no reconciliation between them, as Jim asked David pointedly, "Were you in Dallas on that day"? David said, "Yes", and Jim hung the phone up.
Shawn Phillips is a musician. This is his website:

http://www.shawnphillips.com

His family tie to David Atlee Phillips is explained here:

http://www.shawnphillips.com/james.html

SOURCE: http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phillips.htm

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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
48. Kick. Or maybe it only LOOKS like a kick.
Yeah, that's it. Just a coincidence.

;-)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #48
193. Goebbels: Give me control of the media and I'll control the volk.
It's no coincidence: That NAZI could tell a big lie from a conspiracy any day.

Uncommon Sense

Conspiracy and other theories


By Michael Hasty
Online Journal Columnist

September 24, 2004In his eyewitness account of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," author William Shirer, who lived in Nazi Germany throughout most of the 1930s, described a phenomenon that will, in 2004, seem disturbingly familiar to Americans who dissent from the policies of the Bush regime.

"I myself was to experience how easily one is taken in by a lying and censored press and radio in a totalitarian state," Shirer wrote. "Though unlike most Germans I had daily access to foreign newspapers . . . and though I listened regularly to the BBC and other foreign broadcasts, my job necessitated the spending of many hours a day in combing the German press, checking the German radio, conferring with Nazi officials and going to party meetings. It was surprising and sometimes consternating to find that notwithstanding the opportunities I had to learn the facts and despite one's inherent distrust of what one learned from Nazi sources, a steady diet over the years of falsifications and distortions made a certain impression on one's mind and often misled it."

Shirer then recounted how, in conversations with his German friends and strangers he would meet in cafes and beer halls, "I would meet with the most outlandish assertions from seemingly educated and intelligent persons. It was obvious they were parroting some piece of nonsense they had heard on the radio or read in the newspapers.

"Sometimes one was tempted to say as much, but on such occasions one was met with such a stare of incredulity, such a shock of silence, as if one had blasphemed the Almighty, that one realized how useless it was even to try to make contact with a mind which had become warped and for whom the facts of life had become what Hitler and Goebbels, with their cynical disregard for truth, said they were."

I will never forget the shock of recognition I felt when I first read those words several years ago, nor my first thought when I looked up from the page: "This happens to me all the time." It wouldn't be surprising if many of you reading this now have just had the same thought.

CONTINUED...

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/092404Hasty/092...

PS: Really dig the pic of Jim Morrison and the Johnny Cash lyrics, dbt. Wheel of fire.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
52. I was 4 and I remember
:dem:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #52
194. I, too, remember. I was six.
The country has not been the same since that awful day. We the People have been used as cannon fodder for the MI-Complex and as mopes for the Mafia-KKK-BFEE-axis of evil.

Here's a REAL patriot, Professor John Newman, a retired US Army major and West Point instructor, who decided to make public what he learned about the events leading up to Dallas and Vietnam. Here's a bit on how treasonous agents of the US government made it look like Oswald was a commie working with Cuba and the Soviets:

Mexico City-A New Analysis

John Newman
at the "November in Dallas" JFK Lancer Conference

Friday, November 19, 1999

EXCERPT...

"I'm John Newman, as I said I'm a conspiracy theorist. I also do other things for a living. I'm trying to get to be conspiracy theorist first class, I don't know if I've gotten there yet but I'm going to make myself a button that has a rank, so I can refer to myself appropriately. I don't know if I canget through everything I have, and if I don't I'll try and squeeze in somewhere else, where's there's a hole this weekend. What I have for you is basically a two part presentation today. The first part of it deals with the tapes from Mexico City. It is a very controversial issue, a lot of stuff has been released on it in the archives. The House Select Committee chased that story very vigorously and so did the Review Board.

"Then at the end of that section I am going to present a hypothesis to you, for three or four minutes, then I'm going to go back, and I am going to take you through the case, pre-assassination, a couple of weeks between Mexico City and the assassination, and then through the first 24 to 48 hours and watch the panic set in in Washington, D.C. and see what happens everywhere.

"In all of that you will see, I think, more clearly than before, the hand of Lyndon Johnson directing a lot of the cover-up, it's pretty interesting to watch this. But it is clear that the Mexico City story is driving all of that, so that's my plan today. And a lot of this stuff is brand new. And I thought you would appreciate actually seeing the documents. I'm going to do my best to go through this. As it turns out if it's taking too long, well, I'll cut it off and maybe come back later to see how we do.

"This schematic over here on the overhead, 'The tale of the Mexico City tapes,' Debby is going to put it up every once in a while will help orient you for the first part of this presentation. There are really two competing stories here. One is that the tapes survived the assassination and were listened to, in fact listened to in Dallas, Texas, by FBI agents while Oswald was alive. And then they got a surprise when they listened to thosetapes, and listened to that voice.

"There is another story, the tapes had been destroyed before the assassination, had been 'routinely erased.' You will find on the right hand side of that, the graphic there, all the references, the contemporaneous references, in the record, to the actual tapes having survived, having been listened to, which call it was, and so on and so forth, and on the left hand side you will find the contemporaneous reflections in the record of the erasure story. It goes through three stages. The first 24 hours from the time Kennedy is killed on 11/22 till noon the following day there is no story of erasure, then from noon till about 6:00 p.m. on 11/23 the story is that one tape was erased, the 9/28 call, the call on the 28th of September from the Cuban consulate to the Soviet embassy by Lee Harvey Oswald. For those of you who are not conversant in all of this I will say a little something about it in a second. And then the final phase, from about 6:00 p.m. on Saturday till today, the story is that all of the tapes have been erased.

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfklancer.com/backes/newman/newman_1.html

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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
55. It was discussed in the missing 18 1/2 minutes...
I'm sure Bush was meeting with Nixon that morning, planning what the new U.S.A. was going to look like.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
92. Oh, any evidence such as WH visitor logs, eye-witness accounts
....etc and any links to support that claim? The missing 18 1/2 minutes from the Nixon tapes has certainly been swept under the carpet and insulated from investigation and public debate. I'd like to see any credible souses of what may be out there on this aspect of the JFK assassination.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #92
195. How about the missing LBJ-Hoover tape "14-minute gap"?
LBJ and the Hoove discussed how somebody impersonated Oswald in Mexico City. The conversation has been erased from LBJ's taped archives. Gee. Another coincidence.

The Fourteen Minute Gap

Rex E. Bradford

April 10, 2000

During Watergate, one of the more important events was the discovery of an eighteen minute gap on one of the Nixon tapes. This erasure, reportedly performed by Presidential secretary Rose Mary Woods on Nixons orders, created quite a stir when revealed. It was never determined what in fact had been erased, which added to the mystery of the affair.

This article presents my discovery of a second such tape erasure, this one of a phone conversation conducted between President Johnson and FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover less than 24 hours after the assassination of President Kennedy. The erasure in this case is about 14 minutes in length, somewhat shorter than the Nixon gap. The Johnson tape is different in one other significant respecta transcript of the conversation survived the erasure. It is in my view the true smoking gun tape of modern American history.

First, some background. At last Novembers JFK Lancer conference in Dallas, former military intelligence officer and history professor John Newman gave an electrifying presentation. In this talk, he discussed in detail the existence, post-assassination, of the famous Oswald Mexico City tapes. One of the most astonishing documents to surface in this regard was a transcript of a phone call between FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and the new President Lyndon Johnson. This call occurred at 10:01 AM on the morning of November 23, 1963, less than 24 hours after the assassination, while Oswald was still alive in a jail cell in Dallas. The most explosive portion of this transcript is reproduced below:

LBJ: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

Hoover: No, thats one angle thats very confusing, for this reasonwe have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet embassy, using Oswalds name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this mans voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet embassy down there.<1>


CONTINUED...

http://www.historymatters.com/essays/frameup/FourteenMi...



The nice man Allen Dulles told the Warren Commission he HEARD this was Oswald and that was that...

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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
57. May God damn to hell every fucking Bush that
has ever been born or ever will be born. bush is a cancer upon humanity.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #57
89. Not God...but WE THE PEOPLE needed to do that long ago.....
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 11:44 AM by jus_the_facts
...or suffer the consequences...seems the latter is our reality. :nopity:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #89
187. Masden seems to have hit a raw nerve in the House of Bush...
22 November: Remembering JFK

Another Insult From Bush


by Wayne Madsen

From the Wilderness, 29 November 2004
www.globalresearch.ca 30 November 2004
The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD411A.html

EXCERPT FROM A MUST-READ...

Perhaps the memory of Kennedy is a bit too much for the neo-cons in the Pentagon. Just consider the differences between Bush and Kennedy. One was a bona fide war hero who was beloved by the American people and the world. The other is a draft dodger who failed to show up for his required medical exams and mandatory training and duty and is hated throughout the world. One started the Alliance for Progress to create better living conditions in Latin America. The other permits his thuggish Secret Service agents to get into a fracas with Chilean security agents and creates a diplomatic incident by requiring Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation banquet guests in Santiago to go through a metal detector. One brought the world to peace from the edge of nuclear war. The other seeks to plunge the world into a series of never-ending wars. One was brutally murdered in Dallas. The other used Dallas as a base to feather his financial nest by making deals on money-losing oil exploration companies, a taxpayer-funded baseball stadium, and shady political accommodations with crooked politicians and terrorist-connected Saudis that would make the politicians of Tammany Hall uncomfortable.

There is something about the name "Kennedy" that seems to make the Bushes quite upset. The USS John F. Kennedy was even dispatched on a dangerous deployment in the Persian Gulf as part of an exercise aimed primarily at future military action against Iran. Morale on board the Kennedy is at an all-time low, and in recent months its Commanding Officer and a fighter squadron commander have been relieved for cause. E-mails from Navy personnel on the ship confirm that tempers against the Pentagon and Bush are running high.

But there is something else about John F. Kennedy in particular that makes the Bushes jumpy. The name "George Bush" appears much too frequently in documents, some newly released, relating to the assassination of President Kennedy. Since there is no statute of limitations on murder or accessory to murder, I can understand why Bush pere and fils may want to erase November 22, 1963 from the history books.

SNIP...

Bush always had a keen interest in what files the government had on Kennedy's assassination. When he was CIA Director in 1976, Bush wanted to see all the agency's files on the Kennedy assassination. His memos specifically requested information on Oswald, Jack Ruby, and others linked to the assassination. In her book The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty, author Kitty Kelley writes that "Years later, when became president of the United States, he would deny making any attempt to review the agency files on the JFK assassination when he made this claim, he did not realize that the agency would release 18 documents that showed he had indeed, as CIA director, requested information-not once, but several times-on a wide range of questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination."


SNIP...

Not only was George H. W. Bush, a known CIA operative, in Dallas on November 22 but he was also keeping track of the stance of pro-Castroites in Miami. That would have been important because Lee Harvey Oswald, Kennedy's accused assassin was supposed to be a pro-Communist member of the "Fair Play for Cuba Committee." But he was also associated with the "Anti-Communist League of the Caribbean" and "Friends of Democratic Cuba." And his apparent control officer was FBI agent Guy Bannister, formerly of the Chicago FBI office and a former Naval Intelligence officer, whose office "Guy Bannister Associates, Inc." a CIA cut-out for training anti-Castro Cubans, was located at 544 Camp Street in New Orleans. 544 Camp was also the address used by Oswald's "pro-Communist" "Fair Play for Cuba Committee." The local Office of Naval Intelligence was across the street from 544 Camp.

CONTINUED...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD411C.html
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nascarblue Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
58. A Documentary is out linking Bush to JKF shooting...
Documentary on how George Bush Senior played an integral part in the JFK assasination.

http://www.kpfk.org/pledge/catalog/product_info.php?pro...


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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #58
80. It's available to view for free online. See post #71 for the link! n/t
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golden voyages Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
103. kick
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
61. delete
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 08:49 AM by Andy_Stephenson
same info up thread.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
62. History matters.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 08:58 AM by gordianot
These types of investigations is why the CIA is going through old archived papers such as Scoop Jackson. There are scores of revelations out there for researchers on a variety of topics. NPR did a very interesting piece this morning with archivist of Jackson's papers. I would love to know what was removed. Better look now it sounds like they are going fast.

see link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=45...

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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #62
75. The Operation Northwoods papers out because of JFK FOIA....
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 09:22 AM by EVDebs
apparently by 'mistake'. Maybe freedom loving people still exist within the CIA.

BTW, the current administration put a lot of the blame for 9-11 on the agency's hands; but Bush supposedly read the Aug 6 pdb and according to the 9-11 report only 33 FAA air marshals as of that date. Today there are thousands.

This is why the Bush admin is cracking down on releasing any classified material and pushing 'police state' tactics. CYA.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #75
82. Remember the Bay of Pigs Thing?
The thinking in 1960 was that the Cuban exiles would retake their island and that they might need some help from the Pentagon. The guy in the White House, the CIA action officer as Oliver Stone called him, was Vice President Richard M. Nixon. At that time, the thinking was that Nixon would beat JFK in the fall. Things didn't turn out that way, so the tables were turned on JFK.

The CIA told the young President their plan for a Cuban exile victory would work WITHOUT American air cover and military support. The thing was the plan was already compromised. Fidel and the Soviets knew the invasion was coming. The only thing was, Allen Dulles didn't warn Kennedy.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/02/980223_pigs.htm

Well that's odd. The CIA head is telling the President to go ahead with an illegal invasion, apparently in the know that it's doomed to failure, but hoping to get the US involved in a war.

Gee. I can only guess what went through JFK's mind when Lemnitzer brought the Operation NORTHWOODS plan. That operation called for staging terrorist attacks on American civilians and military facilities in Guantanamo Bay in order to rally public support for ... an invasion of Cuba. Kennedy said, "No" and fired Lemnitzer.

But, wait. There's more treason.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis of October, 1962, hen the Joint Chiefs of Staff, almost the entire cabinet, and most of Congress that had been briefed wanted JFK to launch a nuclear strike against the Soviet Union, even if it meant global nuclear war.

Thanks to Adlai Stevenson and Bobby Kennedy, the President ordered the government agencies to work out an alternative. That was the embargo. For his trouble keeping the world from ending, JFK was branded "soft" on communism and worse.

After the JFK assassination comes much more evidence indicating government duplicity in the killing. Chief among these is the concerted efforts to paint Oswald as being a communist sympathizer who wanted to shoot the President and then flee to Cuba.

Now THAT leads me to think the President's murder was a conspiracy.

PS: Odd how Kennedy's successor ignored JFK's plans to withdraw from Vietnam. Instead, LBJ used the staged Gulf of Tonkin incident to escalate US involvment, giving more power to the Military-Industrial Complex. These are the bedwetting bastids we call the BFEE.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. I have read about this for years.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 10:59 AM by gordianot
There is literally a cast of thousands involved to some degree. False Oswald's, Cuban connections, mob connections, intelligence agencies, political connections on and on some probably credible others are covers. However the media types such as Walter Cronkite claim that it was not a conspiracy because no one has come forward with the full story. It reminds me of the Orient Express many were involved involved so no one single element could be blamed. To keep people quiet take a picture of all the key participants in the same room. Just hide in plain sight and discredit researchers over a period of years as they uncover the anomalies of the cover story.

Look who and what is in power today. After all of these years they still are working on dismantling Roosevelt and Social Security. Why wouldn't they have the same patience for a political assassination?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #85
192. The powers-that-be used Dallas to build support for Cuba invasion...
During the Cuban Missile Crisis of October, 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, almost the entire cabinet, and most of Congress that had been briefed wanted JFK to launch a nuclear strike against the Soviet Union, even if it meant global nuclear war.

Thanks to Adlai Stevenson and Bobby Kennedy, the President ordered the government agencies to work out an alternative. That was the embargo. For his trouble keeping the world from ending, JFK was branded "soft" on communism and worse.

One of the things that has most troubled me about the JFK assassination is that there is so much evidence indicating government duplicity in the killing. Chief among these is the concerted efforts to paint Oswald as being a communist sympathizer who wanted to shoot the President and then flee to Cuba.

(This is in addition to the trail created before the assassination: One man purchased trucks in Oswald's name. Another took a car dealer on a harrowing "test drive" and said he'd be "coming into money" soon.)

A man impersonating Oswald appeared at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City. The CIA, for decades, stated the man was Oswald only to later recant and state they don't know who the man was. Well that, to me, shows SOMEONE went to a lot of trouble to point the finger at Castro. I think these high-ups are the ones who today want to overthrow Castro. Their cheerleader-in-chief, Smirk Bush.




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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #62
104. And another important tidbit, RFK's murder site Ambassador Hotel
in LA scheduled for demolition. Owners at time of assassination were the family of G. David Schine (connections and Schine was with the Roy Cohn thing...).

CIA with Knights of Malta connections are very interesting.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. True.
The greater outrages you perpetrate the easier it is to hide just do it in the open. Involve so many no will ever believe you. A few leaks are no problem when the act is so outrageous it strains credibility.

Conspiracy is another word for planning. Humans have conspired/planned/cooperated since they evolved which is what makes them so successful. Our ability to organize and cooperate for a common purpose is a survival strategy that works well.

Even if the same persons were not involved directly both Kennedy assassinations there was a common purpose and motive. Just look at the results today.

Notice this, how the Kennedy family never speculates in public about both events? For me that is a strong argument for a broad ranged conspiracy and suggests to me that it is ongoing.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
115. didn't Wolfowitz and many of the PNAC people work for Jackson???
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Yes he was a protege of Jackson.
He would be a logical candidate for the person to have asked the CIA to look at the papers. The CIA man took a sample (don't know if they were random) of papers found several that were marked classified. He apparently returned with a team to review the rest of the papers.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
66. Someone needs to send this to Bush 1, he insists he doesn't
remember where he was that day. Might refresh his memory. This criminal has had a full, rich life when he should have been rotting in jail.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #66
86. To think some people actually believe Kerry lost the election


John Kerry, left, sails with President John F. Kennedy
aboard the 62-foot Coast Guard yawl Manitou
in Narragansett Bay on Aug. 26, 1962.

A Corrupted Election

Despite what you may have heard, the exit polls were right


By Steve Freeman and Josh Mitteldorf

Recall the Election Day exit polls that suggested John Kerry had won a convincing victory? The media readily dismissed those polls and little has been heard about them since.

Many Americans, however, were suspicious. Although President Bush prevailed by 3 million votes in the official, tallied vote count, exit polls had projected a margin of victory of 5 million votes for Kerry. This unexplained 8 million vote discrepancy between the election night exit polls and the official count should raise a Chinese May Day of red flags.

The U.S. voting system is more vulnerable to manipulation than most Americans realize. Technologies such as electronic voting machines provide no confirmation that votes are counted as cast, and highly partisan election officials have the power to suppress votes and otherwise distort the count.

Exit polls are highly accurate. They remove most of the sources of potential polling error by identifying actual voters and asking them immediately afterward who they had voted for.

The reliability of exit polls is so generally accepted that the Bush administration helped pay for them during recent elections in Georgia, Belarus and Ukraine. Testifying before the House Committee on International Relations Dec. 7, John Tefft, deputy assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, explained that the Bush administration funded exit polls because they were one of the "ways that would help to expose large-scale fraud." Tefft pointed to the discrepancy between exit polls and the official vote count to argue that the Nov. 22 Ukraine election was stolen.

CONTINUED

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1970
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #86
164. I've never seen that photo before
Wow. I knew he was friends with the Kennedy's for a long time and John was his hero. It makes sense why the Bush administration dislikes Kerry so much and put so much effort into the SBV people and everything. Do you all think if Kerry ever was president he would unlock those documents they have locked up?
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SpaceBuddy008 Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
93. What is the Agenda? Laundry List of Deceit and Misery
whatever it is?..it is keeping the people DOWN and UNamurkan !

as an old-wives tale pronounces: IT WILL all come OUT in the wash...

FROM GREAT ARTICLE:

Nor, finally, is it in any way a "theory" that the one, single name that can be directly linked to the Third Reich, the US military industrial complex, Skull and Bones, Eastern Establishment good ol' boys, the Illuminati, Big Texas Oil, the Bay of Pigs, the Miami Cubans, the Mafia, the FBI, the JFK assassination, the New World Order, Watergate, the Republican National Committee, Eastern European fascists, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the United Nations, CIA headquarters, the October Surprise, the Iran/Contra scandal, Inslaw, the Christic Institute, Manuel Noriega, drug-running "freedom fighters" and death squads, Iraqgate, Saddam Hussein, weapons of mass destruction, the blood of innocents, the savings and loan crash, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, the "Octopus," the "Enterprise," the Afghan mujaheddin, the War on Drugs, Mena (Arkansas), Whitewater, Sun Myung Moon, the Carlyle Group, Osama bin Laden and the Saudi royal family, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, and the presidency and vice-presidency of the United States, is: George Herbert Walker Bush.

"Theory?" To the contrary.

It is a well-documented, tragic andespecially if you're paranoidterrifying fact.

Commentary

Paranoid shift

By Michael Hasty
Online Journal Contributing Writer

view rest @ http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011...

Michael Hasty is a writer, activist, musician, carpenter and farmer.


Bonaparte, Napoleon; History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon.

Eban, Abba; History teaches us that men and nations only behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #93
248. Power. Profit. Position.
Great article from Hasty, SpaceBuddy008! Can't tell if I read him years ago or he reads DU, but we are on the same side. Orwell called freethinkers "The Brotherhood." Big diff -- we are real.

The Bush Empire

How four generations of arms, oil, fascism, and US Govt.
defiance made America's First Family


by Charles Shaw

"Almost everybody knows that George W. is the son of the 41st President. But fewer know that the family has wielded power in corporate boardrooms and capital corridors for a century and a half. On his mom's side, he's related to Franklin Pierce, the 14th President (1853-57). His dad's paternal grandfather, Samuel P. Bush, was an Ohio steel executive and the first president of the National Association of Manufacturers. Samuel's son, Prescott, became a Connecticut senator. Prescott's wife, Dorothy, was the daughter of George Herbert Walker, a co-founder of Brown Brothers Harriman, the oldest and largest private investment house on Wall Street. The Walker family helped finance the construction of Madison Square Garden and the Belmont Park racetrack--and later owned a big chunk of the New York Mets" --Business Week, Nov 15, 1999

The previous quote embodies the public face of the Bush family, one of the richest and most influential American political dynasties in all our history. But it is almost shocking how little people actually know about the Bush family, particularly the history of the Bush men. I thought we might look beneath the veneer at the true face of America's political dynasty.

I am going to open with a story that is guaranteed to blow your hair back. This is a story that has been impossible to confirm in the mainstream press. Of course, this is part of the whole story, and why curiously the story keeps surfacing and disappearing all over the Internet. At the very least, this story is referred to enough to qualify as a modern legend. This is the extraordinary story of a dinner date that was scheduled to happen on March 31st 1981, the day of the strange assassination attempt on the life of former President Ronald Reagan. What should have been the biggest story of the 1980's seems to have been wiped clean from history, systematically prevented from ever again being mentioned by corporate media.

Held at the home of Neil Bush, the son of George Herbert Walker Bush, who himself was the very ambitious former CIA director and current Vice President, the guest of honor at the dinner party (which was quickly cancelled after news of the failed attempt on the life of the President), was Scott Hinckley, the brother of John Hinckley, the man who just that afternoon shot President Ronald Reagan, coming one half-inch from killing him.

A half-inch from putting George H.W. Bush, into the White House.

CONTINUED...

http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/content/issue12/feature...

Sorry it took so long to respond, SpaceBuddy008! I've been a-searchin' for the above in answer to your question: EMPIRE.
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clem_c_rock Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
95. You didn't see anything here, just coincidence, please move along
I can't wait until the day (probably 40-50 years from now) when people start coming forth w/ evidence how 911 was an inside, Neocon job.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. My bet is the next Democratic administration.
However that could be 40 or 50 years from now if ever. It is also why I suspect Democrats will have to fight(literally) to return to the Whitehouse.


Somewhere in an undisclosed hanger are the parts/evidence of 4 planes reconstructed by the FAA that could settle that controversy forever. (No one has ever released any FAA forensic reconstruction photo's) Somewhere in the hands of the FBI is the Gas station surveillance tape that could settle the Pentagon plane speculation forever. Forget about the WTC it was shipped to China for scrap.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #97
165. Right
Speaking of the whole Pentagon thing they never show any video's of that but they surely do play the hell out of the WTC. They do have video's too because a local gas station had security cameras facing the Pentagon at the time and the FBI took the video tape away ASAP. I remember reading with the Pentagon they were planning on reconstructing certain parts. Does anybody know about that? Then I also read Cheney was hiding in the basement of the White House and Bush was up in the air on Air Force One and they claimed to had "terror threats." :eyes: Yeah right.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #165
171. FAA crashed aircraft reconstruction is standard operating procedure..
NASA and the FAA even managed to reconstruct a substantial part of the Space Shuttle.

Every major air crash crash is laid out for forensic evidence by the FAA. Not ONE of the aircraft involved in the 911 crash to the best I can determine has been shown laid out. Professionals have looked without any answers. If someone could show these parts it has the potential to silence conspiracy theorist. The problem is too many pictures of parts that do not match the aircraft have already been released at the crash site. A swap of crash parts would validate the worst suspicions there are enough pictures now to create doubts. I am willing to bet there are thousands of pictures of the Pentagon crash site.

Every day that this information does not come forward feeds the speculation. The speculation on the Pentagon crash should be very easy to dispel. On this one I will retain my tin foil hat until someone comes forward with real evidence.
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #95
173. Sorry, but thanks to Bush Sr, none of us probably have 40-50 years.
We're lucky if we even have 4-5 years, the way this looming crisis with Peak Oil is going to pan out, if these monsters remain in power for very much longer. America really has been sold up a river, and the swindler behind it is still among us, hiding in plain sight.

Bush Sr is a very evil monster. He is the "Anti-Christ" if ever there was one.
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HEIL PRESIDENT GOD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
96. Okay, why was his drilling company
named after a Mexican communist leader?
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Perhaps after operation Zapata, from zapata swamps around bay of pigs.
Zapata is Spanish for shoe, I recall. I imagine that swamp ate a lot of shoes. Just guessing. Also, Zapata is a common surname.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
100. Part of the Bush family's wealth was derived from the Jewish Holocaust.
Goldteeth, Auschwitz and George Bush
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushies.htm

They are partners of a culture of Death in the world.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #100
149. Before the Auschwitz death camp became a household word
Before the Auschwitz death camp became a household word, these British-American-European groups called openly for the elimination of the `` unfit '' by means including force and violence.@s1@s2

Ten months later, in June 1933, Hitler's interior minister Wilhelm Frick spoke to a eugenics meeting in the new Third Reich. Frick called the Germans a `` degenerate '' race, denouncing one-fifth of Germany's parents for producing `` feeble-minded '' and `` defective '' children. The following month, on a commission by Frick, Dr. Ernst Ru@audin wrote the `` Law for the Prevention of Hereditary Diseases in Posterity, '' the sterilization law modeled on previous U.S. statutes in Virginia and other states.

Special courts were soon established for the sterilization of German mental patients, the blind, the deaf and alcoholics. A quarter million people in these categories were sterilized. Ru@audin, Plo@autz and their colleagues trained a whole generation of physicians and psychiatrists--as sterilizers and as killers.

When the war started, the eugenicists, doctors and psychiatrists staffed the new `` T4 '' agency, which planned and supervised the mass killings: first at `` euthanasia centers, '' where the same categories which had first been subject to sterilization were now to be murdered, their brains sent in lots of 200 to experimental psychiatrists; then at slave camps such as Auschwitz; and finally, for Jews and other race victims, at straight extermination camps in Poland, such as Treblinka and Belsen.@s1@s3

In 1933, as what Hitler called his `` New Order '' appeared, John D. Rockefeller, Jr. appointed William S. Farish the chairman of Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey (in 1937 he was made president and chief executive). Farish moved his offices to Rockefeller Center, New York, where he spent a good deal of time with Hermann Schmitz, chairman of I.G. Farben; his company paid a publicity man, Ivy Lee, to write pro-I.G. Farben and pro-Nazi propaganda and get it into the U.S. press.

Now that he was outside of Texas, Farish found himself in the shipping business--like the Bush family. He hired Nazi German crews for Standard Oil tankers. And he hired Emil Helfferich, chairman of the Walker/Bush/Harriman Hamburg-Amerika Line, as chairman also of the Standard Oil Company subsidiary in Germany. Karl Lindemann, board member of Hamburg-Amerika, also became a top Farish-Standard executive in Germany.@s1@s4

This interlock between their Nazi German operations put Farish together with Prescott Bush in a small, select group of men operating from abroad through Hitler's `` revolution, '' and calculating that they would never be punished.

http://www.tarpley.net/bush3.htm


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #149
249. Gen. MacArthur's "Little Fascist" would fit right in.
NAZI Connection to the John F. Kennedy Assassination

Evidence of link between Nazis still in operation after World War II to the still unsolved murder of John F. Kennedy


by Mae Brussell

EXCERPT...

When the nazis occupied Europe, the banking exchanges between Britain and the U.S. on the one hand and Germany on the other carried on as usual. In Trading With the Enemy, Charles Higham documents the role of Standard Oil of New Jersey, owned by the Chase Manhattan Bank, and I.G. Farben's Sterling Products with the Bank for International Settlements. Standard Oil tankers plied the sea lanes with fuel for the nazi war machine. Prior to the war McCloy was legal counsel to Farben, the German chemical monopoly.

As an assistant secretary in the War Department during the war:
* McCloy blocked the executions of nazi war criminals
* Forged a pact with the Vichy Regime of pro-nazi Admiral Darlan.
* Displaced Japanese-Americans in California to internment camps.
* Refused to recommend the bombing of nazi concentration camps to spare the inmates on grounds "the cost would be out of proportion to any possible benefits."
* Refused Jewish refugees entry to the U.S.

When the curtain fell on the war, McCloy helped shield Klaus Barbie, the "butcher of Lyons," from the French. Barbie and other vicious dogs from Hitler's kennel were hidden out with the 370th Counter Intelligence Corps at Obergamergau. One of their keepers was Private Henry Kissinger, soon to enter Harvard as a McCloy protege.

SNIP...

Major General Charles A. Willoughby, "Our own Junker general."

SNIP...

Sen. Joe McCarthy, Charles Willoughby, Gen. Edwin Walker, and Robert Morris' links to the German nazis converged when Dr. Walter Becher set up offices in Washington, D.C. in 1950.

By July 16, 1957, Becher, praised by American Opinion and other extreme right publications, started his policy of liberation. General Douglas MacArthur, Senator Joe McCarthy, General Willoughby, members of the U.S. Congress or public officials then started openly to meet with and cooperate with the nazi resurgence.

CONTINUED...

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Na...

Fine bunch of people -- all of the highest class, like the Bushes.
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moof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
102.  Truth to the Top
Ironic that the current state of the justice system in America
would allow an honest Real President to send most of the criminals mentioned in this thread to Gitmo just on the evidence readily available to anyone wishing to have it these days.

To one of the best

" Octafish "

who loves ya & stay off small aircraft.

Your always Loyal moof
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #102
196. Thanks, moof! Thanks to You and all good DUers we will win...
...and see the day when Truth wins out. Until then, to pass the time, an important story which helps explain the true nature of the situation we find ourselves in -- our government is controlled by traitors, warmongers and insane criminals...

Bad Faith Again: An Open Letter to The Nation Magazine

by Jamey Hecht

I've been clearing out my basement, and I came on a boxful of The Nation. It was raining, and I settled in for a few back issues, reading by the window. I found a rather striking pattern of intellectual behavior, and I've chosen one article out of many examples; this one is perhaps the clearest.

David Corns "Impaired Intelligence" <9-23-02> <1>uses the rhetoric of error to discuss FBI and CIA obstructionism. Nearly all the print journalism in the U.S. since 9/11 has done the same, cocking an eyebrow at "mistakes," "failures," "screw-ups, miscalculations and oversights." To do so is to appear critical of these agencies while continuing to goose-step down the corridors of the Ministry of Truth. When Mr. Corn observes that House and Senate Intelligence Oversight Committees are "traditionally cozy with" the intelligence agencies, can he possibly be ignorant of the continuous presence of intelligence agents and former agents on those committees? This is better called obstruction of justice, not mere coziness.

The bad faith here is all too familiar. Most 9-11 coverage eerily evokes the reams of utterly forgettable journalism produced in the wake of 11-22-63, that taboo subject whose cultural radioactivity has kept one otherwise excellent journal semi-toothless for decades <2>. Back then, writers in your pages spoke of "discrepancies, inconsistencies, gaps" and "minor flaws" in the Warren Report (editorial, 12-28-63); they praised the Report, calling it "admirable" and "an at times brilliant job" (Herbert Packer,11-2-64). Another Nation editorial of that era laments that "the American public was gradually coming to the conclusion that the CIA was a self-perpetuating, ever-growing, tax-eating organization of spies, schemers and bunglers, with a few murderers thrown in."

We now know that the pre-assassination "intelligence failures" described by the post-assassination press were absolutely deliberate falsifications and planted, false leads pointing in directions agreeable to Langley and Washington. Though Oswald the patsy had a bulky file in the cabinets of the CIA and FBI several years before 11-63, those agencies "failed" to use the information therein for any legitimate purpose. For example: in October '63, a balding, middle-aged, heavy-set man identifying himself as Lee Harvey Oswald contacts an assassinations specialist named Kostikov in the KGB at the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City. This "mystery man" appears in a CIA-MEXI surveillance photo looking absolutely nothing like Oswald. When the Mexico City Station rather urgently requests a file photo any file photo of Oswald, CIA HQ "fails" to send one. Instead it says it will ask the Navy for photos (Oswalds career begins in the Office of Naval Intelligence). Five weeks later, the President of the United States is murdered, and CIA HQ has the wit to tell CIA-MEXI that "We have asked Navy for photos again, but Mexi can see Oswald's picture sooner on the press wire."<3>.

Had CIA-HQ (or the ONI, which never responded) sent a file photo of the young Oswald in a timely fashion i.e. prior to the assassination it would have been immediately clear to the Mexico City Station (and its Chief, Winston Scott) that a fraud was in progress. The whole point is that over a month before the murder of the President, somebody used LHO's name in an impersonation in order to create an incriminating paper trail linking the eventual patsy to the Soviets and to Castro. It was this framing of Oswald with a false link to the KGB that allowed Hoover and his allies to crush any genuine investigation, since, as Johnson told Earl Warren and everyone else at the time, the "truth" could precipitate a nuclear war. Without the impersonation and its phony LHO-KGB link, the successful cover-up would never have been possible. I owe this story and my understanding of it to John Newman, whose lucid account is at: http://www.jfklancer.com/backes/newman/newman_1.html

CONTINUED...

http://www.mediamonitors.net/jameyhecht1.html



Unidentified Oswald impostor entering Mexico City Cuban Embassy October 1, 1963

BTW: Same back at ya, moof! If it weren't for you and the good folk on DU, I'd be feeling mighty low about our nation's future. Because we are so many and so caring and so UNITED -- we just might live to see our side win and these treasonous bed-wetters who stalk our nation and subert its Constitution tossed behind bars where they should spend the rest of their days making little rocks out of big rocks ... the lucky ones, that is.
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golden voyages Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
108. kick
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #108
200. Thanks, 4 more pretzels! Didja hear about NAZI Connection?
Along with Edward Lansdale, this is a fellah who should be feeling some heat about now...

The NAZI Connection to the John F. Kennedy Assassination

By Mae Brussell

EXCERPT...

"Sir" Charles Willoughby -- a Franco-German-American

He was a bull of a man who spoke with a German accent, wore a custom-tailored general's uniform and affected a monocle. A fellow officer in the U.S. army under his true name of Adolph Charles Weidenbach, born in Heidelberg, March 8, 1892. But by the time he became Douglas MacArthur's chief of intelligence for the war in the Pacific, he was Major General Charles A. Willoughby. Behind his back he was derisively tagged "Sir Charles."

For a man of such Teutonic traits it was odd that Willoughby preferred his fascism with a Spanish accent. But this was an accident of geography. While serving as a military attache in Ecuador, he had received a decoration from Mussolini's government -- the Order of Saints Maurizio and Lazzaro. After delivering an impassioned paean to Spanish dictator Generalissimo Francisco Franco at a lunch in Madrid, he was toasted by the secretary general of the Falangist Party, "I am happy to know a fellow Falangist and reactionary.

MacArthur's pre-war headquarters were in the Philippines, whose commerce was dominated by resident Spaniards. The Daddy Warbucks of this crowd was Andres Soriano, who owned an early-day conglomerate of airlines, mines, breweries ("Of course!") and American distributorships. During the Spanish Civil War Soriano was one of Franco's principal money-bags. When the Rising Sun flag was raised over the Philippines Soriano fled to Washington to become finance minister of the government-in-exile. But there was such a fuss over his fascist reputation that he flew off to Australia to become a colonel on MacArthurs staff.

Willoughby accompanied the Supreme Commander to Tokyo for the occupation of Japan. His preferences remained the same; when military police shook down his hotel looking for a fugitive, they found Willoughby at dinner with the stranded Italian fascist ambassador to Japan and members of his staff.He became a heavy-handed censor, suppressing unfavorable news to the States. He delighted in falsely labeling correspondents who defied him as "Communists," a tactic Senator McCarthy would adopt with enthusiasm. But the general's priority project was a dressed-up history of the Pacific War in which MacArthur would be the towering hero. Willoughby brought in Japanese military brass for a view from the enemy side, a move that may have had an ulterior motive. The possibility existed that Willoughby was down-playing Japanese war crimes so that the perpetrators could be protected for use against the Soviets later. This was happening in Germany where the top nazis were writing the history of Malmedy. The tight security in which Willoughby wrapped the project only adds to this impression. One woman had a passkey, the wife of Dr. Mitsutaro Araki, a former exchange lecturer in Germany, who was closely tied in with high nazis in Tokyo and the Tojo clique.

Willoughby harbored another secret that only came to light last year. During the war, the Japanese conducted germ warfare experiments with human beings as guinea pigs (at least 3,000 died, including an undetermined number of captured U.S. military). The Pentagon decided that the biological research might prove handy against the Russians, and the Japanese responsible for the experiments were granted immunity from prosecution in return for their laboratory records. On December 12, 1947 the Pentagon acknowledged the "wholehearted cooperation" of Willoughby in arranging the examination of the "human pathological material which had been transferred to Japan from the biological warfare installations."

As his final public gesture to Franco, Willoughby lobbied the U.S. Congress in August, 1952 to authorize $100 million for the anti-Communist dictator's needs. Then he settled down in the U.S. to do battle with the domestic enemy. As Sir Charles and his right-wing allies saw it, Marxism wasn't the real enemy, the Liberals were.

CONTINUED...

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Na...

Most importantly: A hearty welcome to DU! Really love the moniker! Is there any symbolic significance?
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blueheeler Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
111. Reagan shooting
He has also been linked to the attempted assasination of Reagan. Neil Bush was scheduled to have dinner with the shooters brother and there are other ties between the families as well. I have been putting together the CIA, Bush, Cuba, and Kennedy for a while now, too much opportunity and look where the family is now. Grandpa was trading with the Nazis, they all want to do anything to combat communism and Kennedy still gets crap for not doing more to combat it. He is the one who stopped the cold war with the Cuban Missle crisis and Reagan gets the credit, the first move set it in motion, he was only there when they fell apart! Too many loose ends that all loop back around and around and around!

HMMMMM!!! :tinfoilhat:
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #111
121. The links and tenacles of this whole Bush conspiracy thing are...
...just amazing.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
118. Because Bush was a repub who, now as with then, wanted all Non-Repubs dead
Simple as that.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #118
215. What Prescott Bush wrote Mrs. Dulles after RFK was killed
Gee. Prescott sounds oh-so-social. (My transcription -- ?s denote ambiguities in the photocopy)...

Dear Clover:

I have waited to write you, knowing that you
must have been swamped with mail immediately after.
My heart was very full when I heard the news, although (sic) I
had been troubled about Allen for sometime (sic) before he
was taken.

Such a dear fellow, and such a good friend to us,
always. We went back a long time together. I remember asking
him over to 59 Wall for lunch back in 1946 ? after his re-
turn from the long vigil overseas, and he entertained us
beautifully, as he only could. We thought afterwards how
much fun it was to get on the inside of things from
the great man himself. And yet when he had gone, we dis-
covered that really he had told us nothing. but nothing!

I recall in the summer of 1961, after the ill-fated
Bay of Pigs affair, you were away and we called Allen to
come for supper, and he accepted. That afternoon he called
and asked if he could bring a friend, and we said surely.
So he brought John McCone, whom we had known well but had
not thought of as a particular friend of Allens. But Allen
broke the ice promptly, and said, in good spirit, that he
wanted us to meet his successor. The announcement came next day.

We tried to make a pleasant evening of it, but I was
rather sick at heart, and angry too, for it was the Kennedy's
that brought about the fiasco. And here they were making Allen
to be the goat, which he wasn't and did not deserve.
I have never forgiven them.

Well, it was about time for him to step down anyway,
So we should not dwell upon it. But they did make me mad.


I have heard that you have gone to Switzerland, and may
not be back for some time. But when you do, you will find this
letter carrying ith it assurance of my affections in
which Dotty (joins ?) heartily. We shall miss dear Allen.
But we do not want to lose touch with you. Help us not to.

Faithfully, PB




SOURCE:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/prescott.htm
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
119. No time for research but
in the spirit of Texas politics Bush was implicating his opponent in the House race in typical Bush style. The repeated strategy of projection however makes this even worse and more suspicious as conspirator becomes finger pointer.

This nation needs the truth. There is more resistance to the "news" and the "truth" than ever. Small wonder.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #119
220. You're spot-on, PATRICK!
We the People know that something's rotten in Washington, that the TV lies, that the newspapers miss the big story and pummel the small-fry, that the fat cats and the corporations they own and control get away with murder, and the poor get poorer and the middle class gets squeezed until there's nothing left.

What we need to do is spread the word. Not that help is on the way, but that help is already here. People just need to wake up and listen. It was inside them all the time. The Truth.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
124. If 9215 was here still he would have posted this - de Mohrenschildt
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 06:40 PM by seemslikeadream
Here is info on de Mohrenschildt


I've posted this before. Most of it taken from Richard Russell's "The Man Who Knew Too Much".

Did Poppy Bush know Lee Harvey Oswald?


By the early autumn of 1962, Lee and Marina Oswald's relationship was already devolving into constant bickering. Thirteen days before Nagell's arrival in Dallas from Mexico to make some inquiries about him, on Oct. 10 Oswald had suddenly left his job at a Fort Worth metal factory, bid a temporary farewell to his family, and traveled alone the thirty miles to Dallas. Staying for a few days at a YMCA, opened his first of several post office boxes, Box 2915. On October 12 he suddenly found new employment with the Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall (JCS) photo-lithography firm for $1.35/hour. ...

JCS was an interesting place for a 'redefector' from the USSR to find a job. One of the company's contracts was doing classified work for the U.S. Army Map Service. In this context, employees set type for place names on maps of Cuba. Just days after Oswald arrived JCS, pictures taken by an American U2 spy plane would confirm the existence of Soviet missile launching pads.....

....Hundreds of dollars worth of photographic equipment were discovered by the Dallas police in Oswald's apartment ....

Oswald himself was never known to have been fond of taking long cross-country camera hikes in foreign lands. But someone else was. This was a well-connected Russian e'migre' some thirty years Oswald's senior,....Both the wife and daughter would tell the Warren Commission that it was he who had arranged for Oswald's employment at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall. Not the Texas Employment Commission, as official records would have us believe.....

George Sergei de Mohrenschildt is another of those remarkablely enigmatic characters whom we find permeating the assassination's landscape. He was born in Czarist Russia in 1911, his father a "marshal of nobility" who served as director of Nobel oil interests--hence his own title of "baron." He was a world traveler who spoke six languages and boasted membership in both the exclusive Dallas Petroleum Club and the World Affairs Council....

..."He was traveling extensively ..." one of his friends Mrs. Igor Voshinin, would tell the Warren Commission.
The commission took notice that de Mohrenschildt was acquainted with several powerful people in Houston.....Lyndon Johnson: oil millionaire John Mecom...Another friend of de Mohrenschildt was Jean De Menil of Schlumberger Wells Services Company, who in 1961 permitted his New Orleans branch to be used as an ammunition conduit for the CIA.

The baron's affinity for people in high places even extended as far as LBJ and another future American president, George Bush....

De Mohrenschildt's personal telephone book, discovered after his alleged suicide in 1977, contained this entry: "Bush, George. H. W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland." (Footnote: "Bush name in de Mohrenschildt notebook: Mark Lane, Plausible Denial p. 332. Lane also notes odd similarities among Bush's Zapata Offshore oil company, the "Operation Zapata" code name given to the Bay of Pigs invasion, and the names of the invasions ships "Barbara" (Bush's wife's name) and "Houston" (Bush's business abode).

....deMohrenschildt later told his wife Jeanne, he was "playing a double game". (pp.273)

...In the summer of 1962, de Mohrenschildt maintained that an associate of J. Walton Moore provided him Oswald's address in Fort Worth, suggesting he might want to meet him. De Mohrenschildt called Moore, noting that in exchange for his services with Oswald, the State Department might assist him with an oil exploration deal he was trying to make in Haiti. (pp.274)

...As de Mohrenschildt eventually wrote in a manuscript about Oswald (reprinted in entirety by the House Assassinations Committee in 1979), his wife, Jeanne, particularly hit it off with the returning defector....(pp.275)

When I told de Mohrenschildt I was a writer, his response was quick. "And I'll bet you want to talk about Lee Harvy Oswald."..."It is all in the Warren Commission. All this new talk is so much lies and bullshit. Nothing will ever be solved, unless somebody comes up with a confession."

"Whatever you write ," he said abruptly, "Lee Harvey Oswald was smart as hell. They make a moron out of him."..."Lee was the most honest many I knew. He was--what?"--deMohrenschildt raised his hand dramatically--"he was ahead of his time really, a kind of hippie of those days....I'll tell you this he did not shoot the President". ..."You hear the way I speak English. I've been here thirty-five years and still I have a foreign accent. And Lee hardly had a foreign accent in Russian, a much more difficult language than English. (pp.278)

I explained I had heard a rumor about twelve hours of taped interviews that George (de Mohrenschidlt) was suppose to have given a Dutch journalist friend named Willem Oltmans.....Jeanne was adamant that she didn't want them out....they decided to write their journalist friend and tell them not to release them under any circumstances.... .

In 1974 de Mohrenschidlt had written the journalist a letter that said in part: "In case of my removal from the scene--by assassination or otherwise--you will be able to sell the tapes.....According to Oltmans, in 1975 the finished film would mysteriously disappear from the Dutch Broadcasting Corporation's archives..... (279)

A few days after de Mohrenschildt's death, Oltmans told newsmen in Washington that de Mohrenschildt had revealed to him: (1) Cubans "who thought that President Kennedy had betrayed them at the Bay of Pigs" had fired at the same time as Oswald and (2) deMohrenschildt had served as a middleman between Oswald and Dallas's wealthy H.L. Hunt oil family . " Mr. deMohrenschildt indicated to me very strongly that his ties upward were toward H. L. Hunt and dowstairs to Lee Harvey Oswald." (pp281)

"Billionaire Texas oilman H.L. Hunt, said by ex-employees to have purchased first copy of the Zapruder film and ordered a check on security surrounding Oswald in custody..... (pp.410)


...via the Oltman's account, de Mohrenschidlt was murdered by two men. They first offered him safe passage to Mexico, and they also asked him to sign a false document draw on up by the CIA. ...these experts know only too well how to make it look like a suicide." pp.282


After I alerted Nagell to the impending publication of Morrow's book, in mid-May of 1976 he sent a certified letter to then CIA director George Bush. Nagell wrote: "I am now advised by a 'most reliable source' that while Mr. Morrow claims to have received much of his information about me from people in the Cuban exile community, a substantial portion of his account actually is based on an unsupported allegations furnished to him by a CIA official who retired in 1974. (pp.409)

Five hours after the assassination, Ily Mamantov, who had never seen Oswald, received a phone call from Jack Crichton asking him to serve as interpreter for the interrogation of Marina. Crichton was in 1963 the president of Nafco Oil & Gas, Inc., and a former head of Military Intelligence. According to information uncovered by the Garrison investigations, Crichton had been among a small group of Army Intelligence officials who met with H.L. Hunt soon after the assassination.


.....George de Mohrenschildt, in his Warren Commission testimony, would describe Mamantov as the one "excessive rightist" of the Dallas's Russian e'migre' community.
Interestingly Mrs. Igor Voshinin told me in 1992 that Mamantov "knew George Bush very well". Bush was president of Zapata Oil in Houston in 1963. "Mamantov died recently," said Voshinin, "but he told me that he had received a very charming letter from President Bush. I remember one line: 'You and I did it'." (She could not recall the context.) pp680

.....After the Watergate break-in where several ex -CIA men and Cuban exiles were caught in 1972, Richard Nixon expressed worry on the White House tape-recording system that this might open up "the whole Bay of Pigs thing." Nixon's chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman later wrote of his belief that the president was really talking about the Kennedy assassination.

George Bush, a Texas oilman in 1963, is also found on the periphery of the assassination. As noted earlier in this book, his name appeared in George de Mohrenschildt's personal notebook and
bush was a friend of Marina Oswald's translator, Ilya Mamantov. When George Bush became CIA director (1976-78), Nagell is on record as having written to him about Robert Morrow's book "Betrayal"

The White House has denied that the president was the "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" idntified in a Novermber 1963, FBI memorandum as having been briefed by the FBI on the reacton of Miam's Cuban exiles. But ther is no denying the existence of another recently released FBI memo, which begins:

"On Novermber 22, 1963, Mr. George H.W. Bush, 5525 Briar, Houston, Texas, telephonically advised tha he wanted to relate some hearsay that he had heard in recent week, date and source unknown. He advised that on James Parrott had been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston."

An FBI investigation into Bush's charge failed to turn up any connection whatsoever tying James Parrott to the assassination. Parrott was then an active member of Houston's Young Republicans, who had been involved in picketing members of the Kennedy administration. Bush was then serving as campaign manager for future Republican senator John Tower. Since Parrott's group had come out strongly against a then nascent alliance between Texas Republicans and representatives of the petroleum industry, Bush and Parrott were political enemies..... (pp. 709-10)

KGB file on Oswald: http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0824/p11s1-cods.html

Halliburton link to Permindex and "Operation Zapata".
http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/coverups/bronfman...

Hale Boggs
He sat on the Warren Commission, which concluded that President Kennedy was slain by a lone assassin. Later, in 1971 and '72, Boggs said that the Warren Report was false and that J. Edgar Hoover's FBI not only helped cover up the JFK murder but blackmailed Congress with massive wire-tapping and spying. He named Warren Commission staff member Arlen Specter as a major cover-up artist. Congressman Boggs' plane disappeared on a flight to Alaska in 1972. The press, the military, and the CIA publicly proclaimed the plane could not be located. Investigators later said that was a lie, that the plane had been found. On the plane were Nick Begich, a very popular Democratic Congressman, and Don Jonz, an aide to Mr. Boggs. All were killed.


I miss you 9215 :hi: :hug:
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
125. Excuse my ignorance, but what does "BFEE" stand for?
Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 06:40 PM by BigBearJohn
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. Here ya go
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. thanks!
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
127. Here is the (((( ULTIMATE ))) TRUTH behind JFD's assasination
Kennedy decided that by returning to the constitution, which states that only Congress shall coin and regulate money, the soaring national debt could be reduced by not paying interest to the bankers of the Federal Reserve System, who print paper money then loan it to the government at interest. This was the reason he signed Executive Order 11110 which called for the issuance of $4,292,893,815 in United States Notes through the U.S. Treasury rather than the traditional Federal Reserve System.

John F. Kennedy's United States Note.

That same day, Kennedy signed a bill changing the backing of one and two dollar bills from silver to gold, adding strength to the weakened U.S. currency.

Kennedy's comptroller of the currency, James J. Saxon, had been at odds with the powerful Federal Reserve Board for some time, encouraging broader investment and lending powers for banks that were not part of the Federal Reserve system. Saxon also had decided that non-Reserve banks could underwrite state and local general obligation bonds, again weakening the dominant Federal Reserve banks".

Kennedy's E.O. was never implemented following his assassination, and shortly afterwards, United States silver coins were taken out of circulation and replaced with the copper clad slugs in use today. These two events, the failure to print new silver certificates, and the substitution of worthless slugs for our silver coins, may explain why the Warren Commission included on its panel John J. McCloy, a man with no experience in crime, law enforcement, or national security, but who had been the President of the Chase Manhattan Bank.


Read more: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE2/doodoo.html
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #127
217. Kennedy scared the sacred FED Reserve crowd.
Your analysis, BigBearJohn, shines the spotlight on some of the culprits. These turds don't like anyone messing with their Swiss bank accounts.

They're the ones who make money off the money. Today they (their affiliates and the wealthy global elite) enjoy the benefits of enormous federal outlays and deficit spending.

The historically repeating pattern is clear: The CIA says the Commies are coming. The Pentagon says they need more weapons systems. War Industries say they need cash now.

Keeping things under the aegis of a private bank makes it easier to make sure the profits go to the "right" people.

They're tied with the rest of those behind Dallas -- the CIA, mafia, MI-complex, Wall Street, drug-dealing Octopus that is the BFEE.

Gee. Pretty soon the only money left to steal in the USA will be the IOUs Uncle Sam wrote the Social Security Administration.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
136. He did Kennedy and his son did 911
The only thing that surprises me about the BFEE is that none of the Bush sons went into the CIA. Scary shit.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #136
242. Dallas to 9-11
JFK, 911 & The Real America -

Tying US History Together


By John Phelan
11-23-3

An organic reconsideration of US history and major "conspiracy theories" of the past 40 years, including those pertaining to the 9-11 attack, and how they shed light on America's present drift into fascism.

Hijackers?

What makes you think you actually KNOW what happened on those planes? All four were obliterated, along with everyone on board, remember? No crime scene, no direct evidence, no recognizable remains, no witnesses whatsoever -- it's a blank canvas. How convenient for any party intent on launching a new era of global imperialism, and willing to spin this tragedy into a viable excuse. Indeed, all of the attack's consequences are far better explained by this agenda than by Bin Laden's purported death wish. Those presuming to examine this matter, i.e. ALL OF US, need to recognize that such trickery is a timeless specialty of governments.

And yet from that very day we have allowed the government-media complex to focus all attention on one rather thin explanation: Crazy Arabs did it! George W. Bush and his cabinet have made it known to us, in the most arrogant terms, that they will brook no discussion of other possibilities -- an edict most Americans, in their desperation to believe in this man, seem to have embraced. The Bush Administration even withholds its "proof" of Al Qa'eda's guilt; clearly, it considers mere citizens too unimportant to require full explanations, and once again, we're just rolling over and taking it.

The phrases 'spiritually broken' and 'morally adrift' come to mind...

Until the full case against Al Qa'eda is made available for public review, we have absolutely no assurance that this "proof" isn't exactly like the "proof" of Iraq's weapons programs -- i.e., a big fat lie from top to bottom. On these terms, wholesale acceptance of the hijacker scenario will continue to be what it has always been: a pathetic display of blind faith in this administration's utterances, and in those of its media accomplices. At present, it is astonishing that anyone places faith of any kind in either party: by means of the "WMD" debacle, both have proven themselves amoral, duplicitous, and utterly devoidof humanity. Indeed, why do we give them so much as a moment of our attention? No one with a lick of sense would do this.

A rigorous civilian investigation of 9-11 would help resolve such doubts. If Bush and the rest were standing on firm ground, they would fully support such a thing. Instead, they have worked to thwart both its formation and its progress, using every resource within their reach. Some time last year, they seem to have realized they were only fueling suspicions this way, so Bush grudgingly approved an "independent" investigation. The arrogance of this bunch is so disabling, however, that they actually damaged their credibility even further by naming Henry Kissinger to lead it. This is a man whose dedication to "US interests" verges on homicidal psychosis (see his treatment of Cambodians 1970, Chileans 1973, East Timorese and Kurds 1975, MUCH more). He could only be expected to skew this investigation accordingly, i. e., to omit and cover up any issue not conducive to empire building. Ironically, even Henry had the sense to admit he was an inappropriate choice, thus resigning from this duty, whereupon Bush immediately returned to his original tactic of stonewalling (1). Could the man possibly have something to hide?

CONTINUED...

http://www.rense.com/general45/usus.htm

PS: I agree about the father-son turdiness. They and the other Bush boys are too crooked to be regular CIA. They must be bosses.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
137. BFEE?
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #137
139. Bush Family Evil Empire
not makin' the news, just reportin' it
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
140. Typewriters....
I'll admit that I haven't read the content, but in the light of the TANG memos that forced Dan Rather's retirement, I am looking at the type. The first memo looks like it could have been typed on a manual typewriter, with courier script, maybe a Smith-Corona, still very much in use in 1963. I know. I used one.

I am questioning the last two paragraphs that seem to be more aligned than the first two, which shows the strikes for "S" are weaker than the last two paragraphs in the word BUSH. From personal experience I now that some of the keys struck by the finger next to the middle finger were not as strong as the other finger and could make the strike a little above the the other letters.

Usually, this would be constant unless another person with a stronger strike pattern took over and finished the memo.???

The second memo appears to be typed on an electric typewriter. The strikes are consistent. I will read the content, when I get a minute. I just thought I would comment on this.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #140
143. Bush-JFK Assassination FBI memo transcriptions...
Thanks for the great information on the typography, Cleita! Much obliged for helping us to better read between the lines. From what I know (which is from personal memories that date the second one from the late 80s and the first in the late 90s), they are legit, from the National Archives.

Here are the memos, without all the tags and mimeograph blots:


TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY


At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #


Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #

I'm searching for more information on the background of these two documents. I promise to post it as soon as I can.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #143
170. Has this Parrott fella been identified?
I just wonder if there ever was such a person, and if there was, was he ever questioned? If Bush was just making some bogus report about the guy, it really could ruin Parrott's life. Or how about the other two people mentioned, Ms. Fawley and Arlene Smith? I wonder why they would have been able to furnish I.D. on Parrott? interesting that they're mentioned as being Republican Party functionaries. Or could the whole thing have been some sort of code?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #170
188. Yes. Parrott's a real conservative sort...
Tarpley and Chaitkin wrote about him. Bruce Campbell Adamson tracked him down as did Dick Russell in his "The Man Who Knew Too Much" about Richard Case Nagell and all that. I'm away from library at present, but will try to post more this weekend.

Seems Mr. Parrott was on the opposite side of the GOP from Poppy, yet they breathed together and later in life they worked together. Small world.

From Tarpley and Chaitkins Unauthorized Biography of George Bush

CHAPTER VIII-b - THE BAY OF PIGS AND THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION

EXCERPT

According to related FBI documentation, "a check with Secret Service at Houston, Texas revealed that agency had a report that PARROTT stated in 1961 he would kill President Kennedy if he got near him." Here Bush is described as "a reputable businessman." FBI agents were sent to interrogate Parrott's mother, and later James Milton Parrott himself. Parrott had been discharged from the US Air Force for psychiatric reasons in 1959. Parrott had an alibi for the time of the Dallas shootings; he had been in the company of another Republican activist. According to press accounts, Parrott was a member of the right-wing faction of the Houston GOP which was oriented towards the John Birch Society and which opposed Bush's chairmanship. 19 According to the San Francisco Examiner, Bush's press office in August, 1988 first said that Bush had not made any such call, and challenged the authenticity of the FBI documents. Several days later Bush's spokesman said that the candidate "does not recall" placing the call.

One day later after he reported Parrott to the FBI, Bush received a highly sensitive, high-level briefing from the Bureau:

SNIP

This FBI document identifying George Bush as a CIA agent in November, 1963 was first published by Joseph McBride in The Nation in July, 1988, just before Bush received the Republican nomination for president. McBride's source observed: "I know was involved in the Caribbean. I know he was involved in the suppression of things after the Kennedy assassination. There was a very definite worry that some Cuban groups were going to move against Castro and attempt to blame it on the CIA." 20 When pressed for confirmation or denial, Bush's spokesman Stephen Hart commented: "Must be another George Bush." Within a short time the CIA itself would peddle the same damage control line. On July 19, 1988 in the wake of wide public attention to the report published in The Nation, CIA spokeswoman Sharron Basso departed from the normal CIA policy of refusing to confirm or deny reports that any person is or was a CIA employee. CIA spokeswoman Basso told the Associated press that the CIA believed that "the record should be clarified." She said that the FBI document "apparently" referred to a George William Bush who had worked in 1963 on the night shift at CIA headquarters, and that "would have been the appropriate place to have received such an FBI report." According to her account, the George William Bush in question had left the CIA to join the Defense Intelligence Agency in 1964.

CONTINUED...

http://www.tarpley.net/bush8b.htm

If you find more on this fella, Ms. Arline Smith or Ms. Pawley, please chip in kk897. In fact, feel free to pile on. More the merrier -- and there's safety in numbers.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #188
207. Parrott worked on Poppy's campaign against Clinton 30 years later.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
142. Kick...simply because everyone should get to know the Bush crimes
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #142
213. Thanks, leesa! AM/LASH links Bush to a smoking gun...
As in am-BUSH of Castro. That Oh-So-Social crowd hired to bump off Fidel worked out of JM/WAVE -- the CIA base at the University of Miami. Or was it Harriman's buddies from Wall Street? Or was that the NAZIs fighting the Commies? Or the Mafia trying to kill Fidel? Or the Big Texas Oil folk who don't like Civil Rights 'n' stuff? Or the CIA types and their weird agenda? Or the Military Industrual Complex and their nice war in Vietnam? One name was involved with ALL of these, George Herbert Walker Bush.

Zum beispiel:

"Smoking Guns" in the Death of JFK

James H. Fetzer, Ph.D.

EXCERPT...

Smoking Gun *13: The motorcade route was changed at the last minute and yet the assassination occurred on the part that had been changed.

Think about it. As Chief of Police Jesse Curry confirmed in his JFK Assassination File (1969), which I discuss elsewhere in this volume, it was not until 18 November 1963 that the final motorcade route was settled at a meeting between representatives of the Police Department and the Secret Service, when it was agreed that the motorcade would take a right off Main Street onto Houston and a very sharp left onto Urn en route to the Trade Mart, where JFK~ was scheduled to present a luncheon speech. At the turn from Houston onto Elm, remarkably, the motorcade was considered over and local security was no longer provided. This appears to be such a transparent pretext for disavowing responsibility for the President's security by the Dallas Police as to be indicative of what is known in the law as "consciousness of guilt" in failing to take or in taking measures that ordinarily would or would not be taken--save for knowledge of the circumstances of a crime
Indeed, the revised motorcade route was never published in the newspapers, which raises a fascinating question, namely: How did the alleged assassin even know that the President would pass by the Texas School Book Depository in order for him to shoot him? In an interesting study, "The Mathematical Improbability of the Kennedy Assassination," The Dealey Plaza Echo (November 1999), pp. 2-6, Ed Dorsch, Jr., has calculated that the probability of Oswald and JFK coming within 100 yards of each other at random during his Presidency is approximately 1 in 1 hundred billion! This suggests an encounter by the two was almost certainly no accident, yet Oswald had no reason to know he would only have to show up for work to have the chance to shoot JFK -- and his wife even said that he had overslept! A more plausible explanation is that their proximity was not a matter of chance but was coordinated by plans about which Oswald had no knowledge and over which he had no control

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfkresearch.com/prologue.htm

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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
147. Not just Kennedy, he was involved in Reagan's shooting

Just do a google search on:

Hinckley Bush dinner
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #147
221. Hinckley's old man actually SUPPORTED Poppy's "election" campaigns...
... theywerelikethis in Houston. VoxFux does a great job of pulling together info on this interesting, um, coincidence:

Scott Hinckley, brother of John W. Hinckley Jr., who allegedly shot Reagan, was to have dined tonight in Denver at the home of Neil Bush, one of the vice president's sons.

Bush Son Had Dinner Plans With Hinckley Brother Before Shooting

The Associated Press
Domestic News
March 31, 1981, Tuesday, PM cycle

HOUSTON -- The family of the man charged with trying to assassinate President Reagan is acquainted with the family of Vice President George Bush and had made large contributions to his political campaign, the Houston Post reported today.

The newspaper said in a copyright story, Scott Hinckley, brother of John W. Hinckley Jr., who allegedly shot Reagan, was to have dined tonight in Denver at the home of Neil Bush, one of the vice president's sons.

The newspaper said it was unable to reach Scott Hinckley, vice president of his father's Denver-based firm, Vanderbilt Energy Corp., for comment. Neil Bush lives in Denver, where he works for Standard Oil Co. of Indiana.

In 1978, Neil served as campaign manager for his brother, George W. Bush, the vice president's oldest son, who made an unsuccessful bid for Congress. Neil lived in Lubbock throughout much of 1978, where John Hinckley lived from 1974 through 1980.

On Monday, Neil Bush said he did not know if he had ever met 25-year-old John Hinckley.

CONTINUED... Lots o' articles...

http://www.voxfux.com/features/hinckley_bush_connection...
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moof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
172. What else is there better to do than kick this thread ?
That was rhetorical BTW.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #172
222. Thanks, moof! Hey! Didjahear Jack and Bobby FEARED a Coup?
Robert McNamara, Cuban Missiles & the Absurd

Tuesday, August 3, 2004
By Rand Fishkin

"(I)n the middle of that crisis (the Cuban Missile Crisis), Bobby Kennedy told the Soviet ambassador, Anatoly Dobrynin, that Moscow had to understand that if there is not some kind of resolution quickly to this, there is a risk of a coup in the U.S. The military will topple JFK."

In doing some research, I discovered that this was not an idle threat of Bobby's. He truly believed it and McNamara alludes to this in the documentary.

Just think for a moment about Halloween of 1962 becoming the day America was taken over by a coup of military leaders - the Joint Chiefs - and the beginning of a massive nuclear war with China & the USSR. The most ludicrous part is that the CIA told Kennedy that Cuba had no nuclear warheads. We later found out that between 60 and 90 million Americans would have been killed by warheads on Cuba that the CIA never knew about. The end of modern civilization was avoided by a little empathy & a lot of luck.

Despite the lessons of history and the film, we have learned nothing. To this day, 25,000 nuclear missiles are ready to launch at worldwide targets within 15 minutes. These weapons have the potential to reduce the world's population to 1/2 of its current level... all at the disgression of one man. You might remember him as the former cokehead and alcoholic of Kennebunkport, Maine.

SOURCE:

http://www.etalkinghead.com/archives/robert-mcnamara-cu...

The interview in question:

The fog around Robert McNamara

Director Errol Morris discusses how his Oscar-nominated "The Fog of War" resonates with George W. Bush's foreign policy in Iraq, and the complicated morality of his film's star.


EXCERPT...

But perhaps not as frightening as the Cuban missile crisis, when the entire world was on the brink.

Yes. And you don't know whether it was a ploy, of course, a way to wring concessions from the Soviets. But in the middle of that crisis, Bobby Kennedy told the Soviet ambassador, Anatoly Dobrynin, that Moscow had to understand that if there is not some kind of resolution quickly to this, there is a risk of a coup in the U.S. The military will topple JFK. I like to say that we have come to realize that "Dr. Strangelove" is not a drama, it's a documentary.

McNamara speaks most clearly about himself when he's speaking about others. There's a moment in my movie when Johnson gives McNamara the Medal of Freedom at his farewell ceremony and he's unable to speak. And then in the movie he says what he would've said to Johnson if he had been able to speak. He would have said that people should understand that he had reasons for what he did. That there were people who wished for a war with the Soviet Union and Red China, and he was determined to prevent it. And if you like McNamara, if you're sympathetic to him, it's a key moment. If you hate him, if you dislike him, it is seen as one more pathetic excuse among many. But there's a reason why General LeMay is in this movie so prominently, because he represents a dark part of American history that was there, it was real. This was not a figment of McNamara's imagination. He knew all too well what he was dealing with.

CONTINUED (need registration or watch a commercial -- well worth it, IMO)...

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2004/02/28/morris /


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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
178. KICK
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #178
224. Thanks, chlamor! Hey! Wanna know how Poppy felt about Wellstone?
Pappy Bush on Paul Wellstone:

"Who Is This Chickenshit?"


by WAYNE MADSEN
October 25, 2002

Before we all get sucked into George W. Bush's eulogies of the late Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone let us not forget what his father, Bush 41, called the Senator at a White House reception for newly-elected members of Congress in 1991.

Wellstone, who ran on a progressive platform, did not think Bush 41 cared one wit about education, health care, and workers' safety issues.

So when Wellstone met Bush in a typical White House pro forma reception line, he used the occasion to urge Bush on three different occasions to spend more time on issues like education and cautioning him against the Persian Gulf War. Of course, Bush was more concerned about fighting the war against Iraq (sound familiar?) and could care less about Wellstone's issues.

After Wellstone violated Bush 41's sanctimonious White House protocol, Bush was overheard saying, "Who is this chicken shit?"

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen1025.html

Appears to me Poppy has something against Liberals, in general. Odd, for someone who has never really had to work a day in his life -- excepting the time he bailed out of his "burning" TBM...


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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
180. Kitty Kelley book(p. 212-13)-On 11-22-63 George I and Barfara headed
to Tyler,Texas to do luncheon speech to Kiwanis Club group of 100 men at Blackstone Hotel,he'd just started speech(he'd announced his candidacy for U.S. Senate in 9/63)when head bellhop tapped Kiwanis vice pres. Aubrey Irby on shoulder,said Kennedy was shot,Irby told Wendell Cherry,pres. of the club,he leaned over and told Bullsh that wire reports from Dallas confirmed Kennedy was dead.Bullsh stopped speech,saying he considered it inappropriate to continue a political speech at that time and sat down,the luncheon adjourned,George I hurried across street to meet Barfara at beauty salon for their scheduled flight to Dallas("nut country"-JFK).Before leaving Tyler Bullsh called FBI in Houston,stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent days that one James Milton Parrott had been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston...Parrot was an unemployed 24-year-old honorably discharged from Air Force on recommendation of a shrink.He was a John Bircher who had vigorously opposed Bullsh when he ran for GOP chairman of Harris County(Houston)...Years later when he was running for President,George I would claim he never made the call.Documents were then produced to refresh his memory.He also claimed he did not remember where he was that day,"somewhere in Texas" he said.Barfara clearly remembers being in Tyler.She said she was writing a letter in the beauty parlor and they left shortly after they heard news.They flew to DALLAS en route to Houston,and in Dallas they had to circle Love Field several times while the second presidential plane was taking off to return to Washington,D.C.






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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #180
233. Thanks, Algorem! Understood that Barfara and Smirko were in Dallas...
... to see "the parade" at the time. That's according to Michael Beschloss who related the story on Imus on 22 November 2004. seemslikeadream and another DUer reported hearing it that day.

Thank you very much for taking the time to transcribe Kitty Kelley's report. It is news to me. I'll have to get to her book sooner than I had planned...

The fact that Bush would be giving a political speech at that time seems to fit a "plausible" rationale for being near Dallas. Like his daddy, Dim son had a plausible reason for being in a grade school on 9-11... away from the action, but not too far away.

Bush's behavior regarding the assassination has been most odd. I know Kitty Kelley reported he had an interest in learning about what the CIA had in its files when he was DCI under Ford. He must've been satisfied there was nothing incriminating-I mean, politically sensitive in them because as president, Poppy did nothing to investigate the assassination of President Kennedy, let alone actually help apprehend those responsible.

Back in 1992, when Oliver Stone's film, "JFK" got the public to think about things, Bush sat on his, um, hands.

Blows Against the Empire:
A Breach in the Wall of Government Secrecy


by Martin Shackelford (mshack@juno.com )
Part One of Seven in a Series
Special to Review Magazine

EXCERPT...

The Act was passed in October, calling for appointment of an Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB), and a two year life. Unlike the 1967 and 1976 Freedom of Information Acts, it established a clear bias in favor of full disclosure, but it specifically excluded the JFK autopsy photos and X-rays, which are controlled by the Kennedy family. Very shortly after, President George Bush lost his bid for re-election. He received recommendations for nominations to the Board, but took no action, and even took the list of proposed Board members with him when he left office. It was a few months into 1993 before President Clinton was able to acquire another copy of the list, and a new administration has other priorities in its early days.

Some agencies soon released records in compliance with the Act. In August 1993, the media announced that over 800,000 pages (one reporter said 1.5 million pages; and this was still only half of the total number of documents on the case) of CIA and FBI documents were opened by the National Archives, the largest record release in history. Oddly, the CIA had released only 90,000 pages, and the FBI and other agencies released none.

The major media, which apparently included in their total all records previously released, claimed to instantly analyze their contents ("no new evidence," as usual). They reported only 10,000 pages of CIA documents remained classified (actually, the volume was closer to 160,000 pages; in 29 years, the CIA had previously released only 11,000 pages), and accepted G. Robert Blakey's claim that "95%" of House Select Committee on Assassinations records were already public (414,000 pages remained closed). Less than half of FBI records had been previously released.

A new media campaign, with Gerald Posner and his book Case Closed in the vanguard, sought to discredit conspiracy theories on the assassination. The year's 37 critical books on the case were ignored or dismissed. After relatively brief research, Posner claimed to be "completely familiar with the public record in the case." President Clinton was heard to say good things about Mr. Posner, who suddenly appeared on every TV program about the case, and testified before Congress that November. In December, the FBI released 21,000 pages of files; they later released another 115,000 pages. Some had been released previously. Attorney General Janet Reno quietly established a policy of fuller cooperation with Freedom of Information Act requests.

Finally, after a year, President Clinton nominated five ARRB board members, but only after Congress recessed. In 1994, the Senate confirmed them, and the Board was sworn in April. In May, it held its first meeting in the room where the Warren Commission had convened; only one reporter attended.

CONTINUED...

http://www.assassinationweb.com/shack3a.htm

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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
183. Bless the Beasts and the Children
WASHINGTON -- March 13, 2005 -- TomFlocco.com -- Photographer Russell E. "Rusty" Nelson was recently arrested two days after journalist Hunter Thompson reportedly committed suicide four weeks ago on February 10, according to two phone interviews with attorney John DeCamp last week.

Nelson was allegedly employed by a former Republican Party activist to take pictures of current or retired U.S. House-Senate members and other prominent government officials engaging in sexual criminality by receiving or committing sodomy and other sex acts on children during the Reagan-Bush 41 administrations.
http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #183
234. Ray, that's the most disturbing thing about the Bush Gang.
Calling them monsters, gets them off the hook. It appears they are nothing more than a bunch of greedy, perverted, Satan-worshipping NAZIs.



Until the checks cleared, it was a puzzler why Poppy would say the Washington Times was his favorite newspaper...

Voxfux does a bang-up job on this:

http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/f...
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
190. kick-because everyone should read this n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #190
236. Thanks, JennasLiver! It's why I sound like a broken record...
... when it comes to the terrible day in Dallas in 1963. And posting and discussing and disseminating what we know is how we'll spread the Truth and beat these bed-wetting traitors, murderers and gangsters.

Here's a bit more about...

The Man Who Wasn't There

EXCERPT...

Bush's duties with the C.I.A. in 1963 -- whether he was an agent, for example, or merely an "asset" -- cannot be determined from Hoover's memo. However, the intelligence source (who worked with the agency in the late 1950s and through the 1960s) said of the Vice President: "I know he was involved in the Caribbean. I know he was involved in the suppression of things after the Kennedy assassination: There was a very definite worry that some Cuban groups were going to move against Castro and attempt to blame it on the C.I.A."

The initial reaction of Senator Frank Church, chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, to the firing of William Colby and the naming of Bush as Director of Central Intelligence in 1975 was to complain that it was part of a pattern of attempts by President Gerald Ford (a former member of the Warren Commission) to impede the Church committee's nearly concluded investigation into C.I.A. assassination plots, with which Colby was cooperating but which Ford was trying vainly to keep secret.

Asked recently about Bush's early C.I.A. connections, (former Texas Democratic Senator Ralph) Yarborough said, "I never heard anything about it. It doesn't surprise me. What surprised me was that they picked him for Director of Central Intelligence -- how in hell he was appointed head of the C.I.A. without any experience of knowledge." Hoover's memo "explains something to me that I've wondered about. It does make sense to have a trained C.I.A. man, with experience, appointed to the job."

Bush's C.I.A. connections might throw new light on his knowledge of the *contra* funding and supply operation, and his alleged knowledge of *contra* drug smuggling and the activities of General Noriega. It is worth noting in this context that, as Leslie Cockburn writes in "Out of Control," "The anti-Castro C.I.A. team in Florida were already drawing attention to their drug-smuggling activities by 1963," and that it was Felix Rodriguez, the C.I.A., "alumnus who wore Che Guevara's watch and counted George Bush among his friends," who allegedly coordinated a $10 million payment to the *contras* by the Colombian cocaine cartel.

CONTINUED...

http://www.macha.idps.co.uk/bush_story.html
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
191. Posting for later reading. n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #191
237. Hi, slor! Thanks! Didjahearabout
Gerry Patrick Hemming is a soldier-of-fortune type who's now, uh, retired. Here's what he had to say regarding the "other problem" faced by so many enemies... JFK:

Gerry Patrick Hemming on JFK, etc.

ARGOSY: You've told Senate investigators that 1963 marked a startling change in your liaisons with certain groups and certain wealthy American citizens. And this change finally led to the dissolution of your group, the International Penetration Force. Could you elaborate on what happened then?

HEMMING: There were a helluva lot of weird things going on. We'd begun to encounter more and more organizations of people in different cities with one thing on their mind-initially, taking care of Castro and then doing something about the other "problem", that "guy" in the White House. You couldn't walk down the street without running into some kind of conspiracy. I don't doubt that there are a dozen people out there that are sure they are the ones who financed the Dallas job on Kennedy.

SNIP...

ARGOSY: Do you think it's possible that the Kennedy killing involved some of the Cuban exile community?

HEMMING: Yes, very possible, It wasn't that hard a job. I've seen and been on the scene for harder jobs than what happened in Dealey Plaza. You had a hard core of characters in the Dallas Police and County Sheriff's Department that would blow somebody's head off at a whisper. When you've got people running around who have friendships with organized crime, Federal agencies, and have been in bed with so many people-well, when the assassination goes down, everybody's covering their tracks.

SNIP...

ARGOSY: It seems we're getting back to the Kennedy assassination. One final thing that's surfaced in recent weeks -- the Exner woman who had relationships with both Kennedy and Mobsters Sam Giancana and John Roselli.

HEMMING: Yes, this was the Mob penetrating the White House. When you talk about the Mob, you're not talking about a homogeneous unit. The only homogeneous part is Lansky's, but the Mob is mostly feudal warlords in major cities. Quite a few have developed their own CIAs. This is right in line with their penetration of law-enforcement agencies, which gives them access to things like judges and FBI documents. They've learned how to wire-tap the FBI just like the FBI wire taps them. Their program has always been, naturally, to penetrate at the highest level. And they did. They did it very well. There were Cubans up in the White House, too-select Cubans kept on government retainers, who knew everything going on and at some point made Mob connections. Some stayed at Bobby Kennedy's house, and one dated Jackie's social secretary. They have since gravitated to good political positions in the U.S. and elsewhere. They became part of the political family up there. We (Interpen) monitored them, and used them like the Mob used them.

CONTINUED...

http://www.abidemiracles.com/876543.htm

There are a few Hemming interviews online where he elaborates. This thread's getting so unwieldy that it won't last long. I wanted to get in as many names as possible for GOOGLEing, etc.

Take care, slor! Thanks for caring!
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
198. Octafish, I love how you're so good at bringing this up again
because there are many newer DUers who need to see this.

Look and learn, people.

(Qualifies as a :kick: )
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #198
202. Thanks, catzies! There's no statute of limitations on murder...
... or treason.

And thanks for understanding why I am a broken record: This stuff is news to a big chunk o' DU and 99-percent of America. The one percent know who They are.

Speaking of treason: They shoot Liberals, don't they?...

ON THE ORIGINS OF THE ASSASSINATION OF JFK

James H. Fetzer

(Editor's Note: Perhaps without appreciating the importance of his discoveries for understanding the origins of the conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy, James Bamford's BODY OF SECRETS (2001) reveals the preoccupation of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, especially its chairman, Lyman Lemnitzer, with invading Cuba and removing Castro, an approach to which President Kennedy proved an obstacle.)

James Bamford's BODY OF SECRETS (2001) appears to clarify and illuminate the origins of the conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy. Take a good look at pages 78 (bottom) to 91 (top), which discusses President Eisenhower's preoccupation with Cuba and his suggestion that, if no actual pretext for an attack were available, then a pretext (a phony event) might be created that could be used to justify an invasion of the island. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Army General Lyman Lemnitzer, took this message to heart and became obsessed with the Communist threat and the destruction of Castro. Everyone who cares about our country needs to understand this development. It looks like a large piece of a very complex puzzle.

A report from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to the President warned of the major problem with right-wing extremism running through the military. "Among the key targets of the extremists, the committee said, was the Kennedy administration's domestic social program, which many ultraconservatives accused of being communistic. The 'thesis of the nature of the Communist threat', the report warned, 'often is developed by equating social legislation with socialism, and the latter with Communism . . .

" . . . much of the administration's domestic legislative program, including continuation of the graduated income tax, expansion of social security (particularly medical care under social security), Federal aid to education, etc., under this philosophy would be characterized as steps toward Communism'. Thus, 'This view of the Communist menace renders foreign aid, cultural exchanges, disarmament negotiations, and other international programs as extremely wasteful if not actually subversive'."

He and Air Force General Edward Lansdale viewed Operation Mongoose, set up to take out Castro, as "a golden opportunity" for the military to show that it could succeed where the CIA (at the Bay of Pigs) had failed. Lemnitzer "was raging at the new and youthful Kennedy White House. He felt out of place and out of time in a culture that seemed suddenly to have turned its back on military traditions. Almost immediately he became, in the clinical sense, paranoid; he began secretly expressing his worries to other senior officers . . . "Lemnitzer had no respect for the civilians he reported to. He believed they interfered with the proper role of the military. The 'civilian' hierarchy was crippled not only by inexperience', he would later say, 'but also by arrogance arisnig from failure to recognize its own limitations. . . . The problem was simply that the civilians would not accept military judgments.'

In Lemnitzer's views, the country would be far better off if the generals would take over. "For those military officers who were sitting on the fence, the Kennedy administration's botched Pay of Pigs invasion was the last straw. "The Bay of Pigs fiasco broke the dike', said one report at the time. 'President Kennedy was pilloried by the superpatriots as a "no win" chief. . . . The Far Right became a fount of proposals born of frustration and put forward in the name of anti-Communism. . . . Active duty commandesr played host to anti-Communist seminars on their bases and attended or addressed Right-wing meetings elsewhere. "Although no one in Congress coud have known it at the time, Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge."

CONTINUED...

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/articles/bodyofsec...
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
204. Wow, Octafish....
"Since the very hour of President Kennedys death, and through the list of sinister events and unrelenting nefarity noted above a record of infamy stretching back 40 years, 8 months and 16 days appears the name George Herbert Walker Bush."

Very eerie summary - eerie because it rings so true.

And to think that Clinton gave up his bed on the tsunami-relief plane and slept on the floor to accomodate this bastard!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #204
219. Very symbolic... Big Dog didn't want to lie with mangey flea-bittened dog.
Sleep with dogs, don't be surprised to get bitten by fleas.

Plus, who would want to share a bed with a person who appears so, um, dangerous?

Can you imagine the nightmares that the fellah must experience? Old Scrooge on that one Christmas Eve would have it easy compared to him.
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ocean girl Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-05 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
206. Thank you Octafish, for teaching me so much
I was 13 years old when JFK was killed and I don't think I've gotten over it yet. I was confused and ignorant about what it meant, but I remember my Mother and our housekeeper crying together and watching the funeral.

Since then, I continue to seek the truth about that day and you have helped me tremendously to understand it better.

Of course, with knowledge, comes disgust, rage and disillusionment.

I don't know if I took the red pill or the blue pill.

At any rate, thanks again for your important work.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #206
218. November 22, 1963
You're welcome, ocean girl! I'm just relaying what I found online and in the library. And there are lots of people who work to get the Truth out. Many are on DU.

Most importantly: Your words are most kind and appreciated. So are the memories you bring back for me, I was six then.

People who were alive and remember what the United States of America was like during President Kennedy's administration know that something has been very wrong since November 22, 1963 -- and that "Thing" has only gotten worse.

Before I forget: Here's one I discovered while trying answer a question regarding the two FBI-Bush-JFK assassination documents' history, a person who goes by the name of Winterboy:

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu.html

The following is something I posted on DU in November 2004, and am particular proud to claim as my own:


November 22, 1963

November 22, 1963 is the day President John F. Kennedy died. He was proud to be a Liberal Democrat in the tradition of the Democratic Party of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and President Harry S Truman.

These leaders were statesmen, who believed in using the powers of government to make ours a better nation for ALL Americans. Liberals believe ALL men are created equal and thus have the right to equal Rights and equal Justice under the law.

Liberal Democrats also believe in the Constitution where it says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Whats more, Liberal Democrats arent afraid of working to make that a reality. Liberal Democrats also are willing to take on the job, personally. Even when it means sacrificing more than their hard-earned tax dollars. JFK sacrificed his time, and was willing to give his life, to serve his country from the time he led his crew aboard PT-109 to the time he drove through Dallas, on the way to give a speech on the importance of public education he never delivered.

President Kennedy used his time wisely. From the time he was inaugurated on January 20, 1961, to the day he died, November 22, 1963, just 1,036 days passed. Thats 24,864 hours or 1,491,840 minutes or 89,510,400 seconds.

The periods been called the thousand days of Camelot. Really just a blink of an eye, for America it means more than that. It truly was a legendary time and America truly was a magical place a place where anything was possible.

Consider what President Kennedy worked to achieve: He raised the minimum wage, cut taxes, kept America from nuclear annihilation at least twice, fired the general who brought him plans to kill Americans and blame it on a foreign government (Operation NORTHWOODS), maintained world peace, set about to bring equal rights for all Americans, got the country to invest in the arts and education, and set out to do the impossible land an American on the Moon and return him safely to the Earth. JFK did all that in a thousand days.

One thousand days is not much time considering how much JFK accomplished. And President Kennedy used each day to make ours a better nation for ALL Americans.

Heres a bit of reality programming whats happened in the 14,869 days since November 22, 1963:

Vietnam
Guatemala
Chile
Watergate
October Surprise
El Salvador
Reagan Survives Hinckley and Bush
Voodoo Economics
INSLAW/Promis
Haiti
Iraq-gate / Banca Nazionale del Lavoro arms
BCCI International Money Laundering for Terrorists & Intelligence Community
Savings & Loan scandal in general and Silverado in particular
Iran-contra Guns/Drugs/Martial Law
Gulf War I Glaspie Gives Go-Ahead
Selection 2000 Shreds US Constitution
Tax Cuts for UltraRich
Criminal Justice Department
Suicidal Environmental Policy
ENRON Energy Policy
9-11 Criminal Negligence, at best; Treason, most likely
Illegal Iraq Invasion

Its interesting in reviewing the above list, just how much ultra-right, conservative Republican leadership has really been. More than a listing of criminality, the list demonstrates there have been many treasonous activites against We the People through business opportunities in the finance, energy, and defense industries. That brief listing doesnt sound like its been a good deal for the average American for the past four decades and each has never been adequately explained to the American people.

And while there have been occasional flashes of the old Democratic magic in the administrations of James Earl Carter and William Jefferson Clinton, the fact of the matter is things havent really been the same since JFKs leadership. Its as if the Liberal leadership in the White House happened long, long ago.

There is one name that runs through all the history, the four decades since the JFK administration. Since the very hour of President Kennedys death, and through the list of sinister events and unrelenting criminality noted above a record of infamy stretching back 41 years today appears the name George Herbert Walker Bush, a tradition continued by his son, George Walker Bush.

Octafish
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ocean girl Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #218
238. Octafish - this is my favorite quote of yours:
There is one name that runs through all the history, the four decades since the JFK administration. Since the very hour of President Kennedys death, and through the list of sinister events and unrelenting criminality noted above a record of infamy stretching back 41 years today appears the name George Herbert Walker Bush, a tradition continued by his son, George Walker Bush.

So well said. It gave me a chill. A scary chill.

I wish this country would WAKE UP!

Also, I found the Winterboy site some time ago, but I forgot to read it! I even copied the whole thing into Word, so I could print it and read. Thanks for reminding me, I gotta go look on my hard drive for it. There are no coincidences, huh?

Thanks again - keep this thread kicked!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #238
247. Thanks, OG! Here's how I really feel...


A Dream Still Matters

When President Kennedy died, a whole lot more than a man died, didn't it? JFK was the guy who said, "Let's go to the moon and do the other thing, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." The guy knew some things were worth doing. Like making what had been considered an impossible dream into a reality.

JFK wanted the nation to do something that had been dreamed about for as long as there had been human dreams, but had been impossible except in the most fevered of imaginations. As you are able, think about it: For millions of years, man and his ancestors stared at the moon in wonder. JFK did something about it. He ordered the Apollo program to demonstrate to the world that a free America was where dreams could come true.

More than demonstrating to the world the superiority of free market capitalism: In getting the nation to accomplish what had theretofore been impossible, the late President also gave us an idea of what the future might have been. If we could do the impossible go to the moon and back imagine what our nation could do on earth, where things would be relatively easier? Challenges conservative Republicans like George Weve got more will than wallet Bush shrink from like poverty, disease, ignorance, WAR would be, perhaps not completely solved, but at least we would be working on solving them.

When JFK died, the U.S. Constitution as a Liberal idea was mortally wounded. It was only a matter of time before the Nazis or fascists or right-wing kooks the owners of the MI-complex, not the American People of We the People fame came forward and took over openly, as in the subsequent assassinations and character assassinations of the Liberal leadership over the next 41 years, not to mention Selection 2000, Selection 2004 or the other stolen elections, make so ridiculously clear, to my shame and that of our great nation.

Those of us who know what we lost November 22, 1963 will not forget. It's up to us to make certain those new to that American learn and remember. Dreams can come True.

-- Octafish
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golden voyages Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
216. Just to keep this thread alive and add a relevant tidbit
Check out the photo at http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKoperation40.htm particularly the guy near the bottom left wearing glasses.

Kind of makes you wonder if Porter Goss was appointed as DCI simply to further sanitize what went on, along with last year's appointment of the Archivist http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0423-03.htm

One thing is certain...history ain't what it used to be.


KICK

KICK

KICK


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #216
232. Porter Goss has a killer smile, eh?
Thanks for the heads-up, 4 more pretzels! That's a nice picture.

Daniel Hopsicker got the word out on the Mexican nightclub photo when Smirko named the Operation 40 veteran and "US Congressman" to head CIA.

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc6512004.html

Apart from the questions surrounding the identity of individuals in the picture, here's a nice summary from

Neurobrger

11-16-2004, 02:20 PM

The journalist, Daniel Hopsicker, (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=dani... ) has received a photograph in the post. It came from Debbie Seal, the widow of CIA operative, Barry Seal. The person claimed that the photograph was taken in a Mexico City nightclub of members of the CIAs secret assassination squad known as Operation 40".

On 11th December, 1959, Colonel J. C. King, chief of CIA's Western Hemisphere Division, sent a confidential memorandum to Allen W. Dulles, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency. King argued that in Cuba there existed a "far-left dictatorship, which if allowed to remain will encourage similar actions against U.S. holdings in other Latin American countries."

As a result of this memorandum Dulles established Operation 40. The group was presided over by Richard Nixon. Tracy Barnes became operating officer of what was also called the Cuban Task Force. The first meeting chaired by Barnes took place in his office on 18th January, 1960, and was attended by David Atlee Phillips, E. Howard Hunt, Jack Esterline, and Frank Bender.
On 4th March, 1960, La Coubre, a ship flying a Belgian flag, exploded in Havana Bay. It was loaded with arms and ammunition that had been sent to help defend Cuba's revolution from its enemies. The explosion killed 75 people and over 200 were injured. Fabian Escalante, an officer of the Department of State Security (G-2), later claimed that this was the first successful act carried out by Operation 40.

Over the next few years Operation 40 worked closely with several anti-Castro Cuban organizations including Alpha 66. Bernard L. Barker, Frank Sturgis, William C. Bishop and David Morales also joined the project. Cuban figures used by the Operation 40 included Antonio Veciana, Roland Masferrer and Eladio del Valle.

SNIP...

It is now known that Porter Goss was based at the JM/WAVE, the CIA station in Miami where he worked with people such as Ted Shackley, David Sanchez Morales, Edward Lansdale, William Harvey and Tracy Barnes. Members of Operation 40 have been associated with the assassination of JFK. Does this mean that Goss is now a suspect? Can anyone help with identifying the men in the photograph.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKoperation40.htm

CONTINUED...

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/archive/index.php/t...
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golden voyages Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #232
240. I don't know the other folks in the picture, but I do know who should be
Check out this little bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley

I stumbled upon it after reading a review by Buckley where he slammed the Oliver Stone JFK movie, dismissed the whole "conspiracy" thing as nonsense, and spouted old the "Oswald acted alone" party line.

Who else in the media has been in on this charade?

With this stuff all over the Internet, I can't help but wonder ~ how have they been able to hide in plain sight for four decades?





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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
223. i have a question....
Octafish-thanks so much for posting this. I was 8 years old and I remember EVERYTHING-I will never get over it. I came across most of this info a few months ago and when I tried to tell people about it
they thought I was crazy and that my hatred for ** had made me lose it. When I told my mom, she told my sister "she's really gone" LOL!!
My question is-does anyone remember when Oliver Stone was making JFK
(I think GHWB was pres) that there was some controversy over using bush 41's name in the movie -possibly a lawsuit or something, and Stone had to go back and remove all traces of GHWB? I feel like I heard something about this at the time (I wasn't very political then) but I can't really remember. I tried some google searches, like Bush+Oliver Stone,etc. but couldn't find anything. If anyone else recalls this, please post Thanks!
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #223
226. FYI, JFK is on TNT tomorrow night
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #226
230. thanks!
I've seen it so many times, but whenever it's on I always have to watch the scene with Donald Sutherland-it so rocks!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #223
227. Bush-Nixon-Dulles-NAZI were replaced by MI-Complex-did-it.
Wow! That's most interesting. I'll see if I can dig up something on Bush trying to keep his name out of "JFK." I remember at the time before the movie came out, TIME magazine and the rest of Corporate McPravda did all they could to discredit Oliver Stone as a conspiracy nut. Covert Action Information Quarterly did a bang-up job on the smear. At present, their web site won't work for me.

Going from memory: Oliver Stone based his JFK on Jim Marrs' excellent book "Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy." Other writers and researchers had input, including Col. Fletcher Prouty who posits the role of the MI-Complex being the force behind the assassination.

Others whose work were shut out from the film think that Stone did a disservice ignoring the three alleged "tramps" arrested in the trainyard next to Dealey Plaza that day in Dallas. In particular, A. J. Weberman feels that Stone should have included more details about the three, because he feels these three are CIA employees and associates of Richard Nixon. Weberman's excellent work, "Coup d'Etat in America," contains photo overlays that show how the tramps are likely E Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis and a CIA technical specialist last name of Christ.

here's his website: www.AJWeberman.com .

To me, there's not much difference between Bush-Nixon-Dulles and the MI-Complex. They all are owned by the same people: NAZIs.
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #227
229. thanks!
I could be wrong-but when I first heard that Poppy might have something to do with JFK's death that was the first thing that came to mind-that there had been some trouble between him and Stone about the movie. I could just be thinking of all the spin and disinformation that came out at the time. I agree that there's not much difference between bush and the MI-complex, etc. but I do often wonder what the country (and the world) would be like if the BFEE had never existed.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
225. Dallas native who saw Oswald shortly after JFK's slaying dies
Kicking thread/sharing recent article....


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/obituari...


On Nov. 22, 1963, Ted Callaway was standing on the front porch of Harris Bros. Auto Sales when he heard five gunshots.

His subsequent experience with Lee Harvey Oswald soon after Dallas police Officer J.D. Tippit was killed turned Mr. Callaway into a participant in the Warren Commission hearings.

Police captured Mr. Oswald at the theater 45 minutes after he shot the officer. Mr. Callaway picked him out of a police lineup that night.

A few days before the assassination, Mr. Callaway sold an old car to a clean-cut, well-dressed businessman, said his daughter Katy Callaway of Dallas. Mr. Callaway discovered it was bought under a bogus name, and the Secret Service found the vehicle next door to where Oswald lived, Ms. Callaway said. Two days after the assassination, someone fired on the car lot, she said. Police never found the gunman. Secret Service agents kept watch on the family for two weeks.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #225
231. Sorry to hear the news. Mr. Callaway ID'd Oswald in a DPD line-up.
From The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy: People, Places, People by James P. Duffy and Vincent L. Ricci:

Ted Callaway

Callaway, the manager of a used-car lot on the corner of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Boulevard in Dallas, heard the sound of the gunshots that killed Police Officer J.D. Tippit. He and another employee, Sam Guinyard, ran toward the sounds, encountering a man who was leaving the scene holding a handgun. Callaway shouted, "Hey, man, what the hell is going on?" The man slowed down briefly, muttered a response, and rounded a corner heading west on Jefferson.

Arriving on the scene and finding Tippit dead, Callaway used the patrol car's radio to call for help and was told police were on the way. He then picked up the officer's gun, and he and a cabdriver, William Scoggins, cruised the neighborhood in an unsuccessful attempt to locate the murderer. Callaway later picked Lee Harvey Oswald out of a police lineup whose fairness has since been questioned for including men who bore not even the slightest resemblance to Oswald. Callaway was one of several witnesses who reported they did not see Helen Louise Markham at the Tippit murder scene. (Warren Report).
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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
239. something i find odd about oswald's shooting
why was the car not parked directly in front of the area where

oswald came out? when oswald came out, the driver of the car beeped the

horn and everyone turned to their right to look and ruby came in from

their left and shot him. anyone know who was driving the car?

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #239
244. Lots of people involved...even cops.
Thanks for the heads-up on the beep. I'd forgotten the beep, which I now remember was the signal to bring out Oswald. The beeper was the police drive, whose name I can't find at present. But there may've been more than one beep and, hence, distraction. That's how professionals work -- get people to focus on what they want people to see, while they perform their "magic" elsewhere.

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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
241. Sunday Morning Kick!! n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #241
245. Thanks, JL! Here's what the late Col. Fletcher Prouty wrote in 1975...
How was the Warren Commission kept
from investigating and seeing evidence?
This is the real issue.
This is a crime to top the crime.




THE GUNS OF DALLAS
(c) 1975 by L. Fletcher Prouty
Photographic Research by Richard E. Sprague
Reprinted with permission of the author

EXCERPT...

As we prepare now to celebrate the beginning of the third century of the founding of this country, we wonder if we live in the land of the free. We wonder if at least we still have a government of the people and by the people. Certainly, it is no longer a government for the people. The sound throughout the land is ugly: there is frustration, hate, and fear. We must act while there may still be time.

There is a grave conspiracy over the land. The people have come alive because of Vietnam and Watergate; but they have scarcely scratched the surface. A President and a Vice-President have been forced to resign. A President has been shot to death. Two Presidential candidates have been shot, one of them killed. Many of the President's men have been forced to leave, some have gone to jail; others are still under indictment.

Yes, history has been made by a series of murders, but not enough has been done to solve them. The trial of Watergate was the trial of the cover-up. There has been no trial about the real crime of Watergate. There has been no trial of the big power behind Watergate. The Hunts, Liddys, McCords, and the Cubans were not drawn into that drama solely for their own interests. They were working for someone much higher up. They were all pawns, just like Nixon was. This is a game for the biggest stake of all -- absolute control of the government of the United States of America; and, with control of this government, control of the world. And yet the real crime underlying all of this has not even been identified, stated, and charged. The real criminals still walk the streets, run their corporations, control their banks, and pull strings throughout their political and financial machines.

This control mechanism did not start in 1972 with Watergate. It began, in a tentative way, in the Korean War era, when the military and the executive branch found out how easy it was to fool the Congress and the American public. And with that recognition, power-hungry and money-mad industrialists began to usurp more and more power. And when those rifles crackled over Dealey Plaza, in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963 and John F. Kennedy's brain was splattered across the road, they had made their move into the big time. They took over control of the President and of the Presidency. The man they had killed was no longer a problem and they had made certain that his successor, Lyndon Johnson, heard and remembered the sound of those guns. It is the sound of those guns in Dallas, and their ever-present threat, which is the real mechanism of control over the American government.

SNIP...

Almost everyone who has taken the time to do any reading and thinking about that crime knows by now that John Kennedy was killed not by a lone assassin, but by a group of hired "mechanics." Let's look at some of the hard facts of this murder and put to rest once and for all the "cover-up" report of the Warren Commission.

CONTINUED...

http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/GoD.html
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
250. .
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