There's no link between Gannon and an old pedophilia scandal

[Dookus]

I've seen the Lawrence King story from 15 years ago being brought up a lot here lately. Enough already.

There is NO link between a gay man in the press corps and an old pedophilia scandal, and I find the attempt to link them highly insulting.

An online editorial earlier this week found a link because the Gannon case "was reminiscent of..." the earlier scandal. That was the extent of the link - somebody was reminded of it.

I question why ANYBODY would be reminded of a pedophile scandal merely by the presence of a gay man in the White House Press Corps. For too long and among too many people, homosexuality and pedophilia go together. It has been proven time and time again that such a link is non-existent, but homophobes and fear-mongers continue to push it.

So please stop it. It's simply ridiculous to try to link the two based on the information currently available.

[The Whiskey Priest]

1. Christ....you want to deal with facts and truth

the right never does! Come on lets play the game...which is lies, innuendos and Coulter writes a book.

[Dookus]

3. I would prefer

that so-called liberals not perpetuate the stereotype that if you scratch a homosexual, you'll find a pedophile.

[The Whiskey Priest]

4. Didnt say that....

just said the right wing's stock and trade is lies, lies, lies.

[Dookus]

5. so

we should make up our own lies? I'd prefer not to.

[The Whiskey Priest]

8. What was it someone said.....

There you stand with the truth
and here I stand with lies
don't fool me again...but the people will vote for the lies.

Not sure if I read that somewhere, but its a good saying.....Maybe Confucius.

[The Magistrate]

46. It Was Certainly Not Master Kung, Sir, Who Said That....

[DrCorday]

112. Mr. Dookus has a point.

I'm all for the adequate and possibly excessive character assasination of Mr. Gannon (or is it Guckert? whatever the fuck...), but I'm not a fan of assuming gays are pedophiles.

However, I do think that Karl Rove is probably a pedophile, regardless of the orientation.

Seriously now, this recent thread reminds me of a certain line from the West Wing (haha):

"We know you're the good guys, so start acting like it." (a woman to the White House Democrats...)

[Warpy]

7. Same here

The average pedophile is a married man with children of his own, a heterosexual. His preference is for children, period.

Gannon's site said "barely legal." Folks, barely legal is still legal.

You know how the right picks on minutiae to discredit the whole. We need to keep this stuff strictly factual.

Gawd knows the facts are bad enough.

[jdj]

72. I think you are seeing it wrong.

it's because of his closeness to this admin and the age he would have been at the time.

Not because he's GAY now, but because he's PROSTITUTE now. Alot of people say that female prostitutes have been abused to have ended up in their profession, so it's probable that males have the same experience. Statistically they and incarcerated people have a higher incidence of past sexual abuse than the general population. And it is VERY common among survivors of child sexual abuse to change their names.

[tx_dem41]

119. From what I have read, Guckert is 47.

He was underage over 30 years ago. The scandal everyone is referring "occurred" about 15-20 yrs. ago, when Guckert was 27-32.

[Ready4Change]

2. Valid point.

Keep to the facts people.

[BuyingThyme]

6. I think you're missing the point.

There was previously an issue about gay prostitutes getting access to the White House. The scandal was covered up.

There is currently an issue about a gay prostitute getting access to the White House. The scandal is being covered up.

While I don't buy into the thread in question, there is certainly something to be explored on the gay prostitute angle.

Being that Bush Jr. has some of the same people running the White House as did Bush Sr., isn't it logical to suspect that they may similarly be using some of the same gay prostitutes?

[TrustingDog]

9. where there's 2 bushes and 2 scandals similar, there's fire I say. n/t

[Dookus]

11. but the scandals

are NOT similar!!!!

[TrustingDog]

12. we don't know exactly how far this Gannon story goes yet...

do we?

This has got Nothing to do with Jeff being gay - but everything to do with the possibility of blackmail, extortion, and god knows what else, etc.

Please consider that many of the same weasels are still about that served in Raegans government. That may be the connection, the PNACers, the souless bastard pigs may be the great connection here.

All speculation, but worth a good close look at least.

[Dookus]

14. NO

we don't know how far it goes yet. But I think even the presumption that it's linked to pedophilia is homophobic and insulting.

[Dookus]

10. Not without any

evidence linking the two.

Plus, I'm not sure what the "shelf-life" of your average gay male prostitute is, but it's probably not 15 years.

[ultraist]

13. Thank you for speaking out about this!

2/3 of child sexual abuse victims are girls
The large percentage of pedophiles are heterosexual males

Gay male= pedophile, is an ugly meme created to stir up more hatred and violence towards Gays by conservatives.

[johnaries]

15. The "link" is not gay = pedophile. The link is Bush Sr and Bush Jr and

male prostitution scandals in both administrations.

No real links have been found, YET! That doesn't mean there aren't any. The first scandal was "killed" in the media, and many people involved in the scandal and the investigation came up dead.

Prostitution, media control, and cover-up's are the issues.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

18. I think the article is bullshit

and a number of threads referencing it have been locked and deleted.

The only link is in the authors mind who finds Gannongate "reminiscent" of of the old scandal. It would only be reminiscent to people who automatically assume homosexuality and pedophilia are linked.

[Domitan]

20. For one thing

I see homosexuality and pedophilia as two very different things. If people are actually pushing for the connection between the two, that would be horrendous. I realize that too many people make the false connection too easily. I recall talking a biker gangster out of bashing homosexuals because his Little Brother committed suicide after being raped by another man. He was able to calm down enough to back out of his plans after I explained that the two were not the same at all.

However, both stories still smell of major political cover-ups involving the Bush administrations. As one poster above mentioned, that's the crux of it here...the continuing patterns of abuse of power and coverups and control of media.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flyarm]

53. why do you keep saying that..you seem to be the only one i see

making that connection..i do not see any connection of being gay and pedophelia...none..and i dont see it in any of there posts except what you keep posting...

do you see no problem with a case that was covered up by the epople in the white house who were sneaking prostitutes into the white house and children..and a prostitute in the white house now??

why do you only see a gay thing...i do not see that at all and i think you are going over board..is this not a place that we try to help each other with truth?? should we all shut up because you have a hang up about gay = pediophilia...cause i am sorry but i dont see that at all..i see people trying to figure out where and how this gannon got into the white house..and a pattern does show up from daddys administration to this administration...

me thinks you protest too much!
if you dont see the connections of a cover up with many of the same cast of characters..dont read where others are doing research and trying to figure out whats going on...
if you do not want to see people trying to uncover many of the same kind of occurances..,dont read it..but please do not impose your hang ups on the rest of us.
i see a man whos life may be in danger..and who has been used and now is being sent out to the wolves..and i for one am hoping we can figure out whats going on and perhaps save his life...

seems you are putting yourself too much into this ..or do you worry we are getting too close to the truth? are you trying to quiet us ..and stop our dialog and figuring out whats going on??

i wonder...
i hope and pray if mr ganmon is being set up by this white house someone needs to look deeply into this and can save him from himself..and if you are too selfish to see that we are all trying to save our nation and possible save this man from others as well as himself...well thats not our problem.
what went on 15 years ago..many of the same cast of characters are involved..these people take no prisoners..they kill and they harm all of us...
i for one will not be shut up..and i will not be misinterpreted ..there may be no connection to 15 years ago..but then again there very well may be ..and if we do not look at all aspects of this story ..then what are we here for?? then this is all futile and just a gossip room...

please do not infer onto others what you think we are doing..you have no idea what i think or feel about this mr gannon...

i sir fear for his life!

fly

[The Magistrate]

59. 'Many Of The Same Cast Of Characters', Ma'am?

There is no overlap between the personae of these two matters. There is, in fact, no connectionm between them at all.

What does seem to be occuring is that some persons find the report that a homosexual male, clearly working as a "ringer" for the administration in the press room, has been also prostituting himself as a "top man" provides an excuse for salivating over sharges of pedophilia involving a Republican state party figure some two decades of so ago. The kindest word that could be used to characterize the connections they claim to exist would be "strained"....

[flyarm]

86. yes many are same cast of characters!

please see article ..http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm

line 15 .."What looked like a finacial swindle, soon exploded into a hideous tale of drugs, iran -contra money- laundering, a nationwide abuse ring ,and ritual murder."




Now who in this administration was involved in iran contra..?????



http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/02/1455206

Did you Dick Cheney’s speech was a classic Dick Cheney speech. I mean there was always the joke of if you watch him closely, maybe this time the lizard will actually come out when he opens his mouth. But, the reality is that he went back to his core themes. And it's important to note those. He was mostly talking about foreign policy. He's obsessed with foreign policy. His two big messages were, there will be no break in unilateralism. This country will be hard core committed to a unilateral vision of how it operates in the world--no permission slips from any other countries. And two, a passionate defense of presidential war making.

********* It's important to remember this is the guy who was central to the defense of Ronald Reagan during the Iran contra process. He's the one who wrote the dissenting opinion that essentially shot down any possibility of an impeachment of Ronald Reagan for Iran contra.***********
Dick Cheney has been at the core of some of the darkest activities in this country over the last four years




http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/Central_America/Iran-Contra_Felons_Get_Good_Jobs_from_Bush


Another former Iran-Contra defendant is Elliott Abrams. He now serves
as Bush's special White House assistant for democracy and human
rights. An assistant secretary of state under Reagan, Abrams pleaded
guilty to withholding information from Congress, then was pardoned by
the first President Bush.

One of the most outspoken Iran-Contra figures is Otto Reich, the
State Department's top official for Latin America, who migrated to
the United States shortly after the 1959 revolution in Cuba. In his
first speech since joining the department in January, Reich said
Tuesday that the United States can speed a democratic transition in
Cuba by "not throwing a lifeline to a failed, corrupt, dictatorial,
murderous regime."

>From 1983 to 1986, Reich led a State Department office accused of a
covert domestic-propaganda effort against Nicaragua's leftist
Sandinista government.

Others given jobs by Bush:

In the 1980s it was the biggest scandal of
the Reagan administration, a covert arms-for-hostages overture to
Iran -- more popularly known as "Iran-Contra."

Today, a half-dozen alumni of that episode have found prominent jobs
in the Bush administration.

The most recent is former National Security Adviser John Poindexter,
65. The retired admiral took over a new Pentagon counterterrorism
office last month.

Poindexter was convicted in 1990 on five felony charges of
conspiracy, making false statements to Congress and obstructing
congressional inquiries. He was sentenced to six months in prison,
time he never served.



--Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Questions linger over
the former Defense Department official's 1986 contacts with Israel on
the Iran arms sales.

--U.N. Ambassador John Negroponte. His service in the 1980s as
ambassador to Honduras, which the U.S.-supported Contra rebels used
as a base, has drawn criticism.

--Budget Director Mitch Daniels. As Reagan's political director in
1986 and 1987, Daniels helped oversee a White House damage-control
effort.

[The Magistrate]

87. None Of These People, Ma'am

Were involved, by any reliable report, in that old Nebraska affair. It has no relevance, save that some people find it exciting to speak of pedophilia, and seem to feel if there is homosexuality mentioned, that constitutes liscence to indulge that forbidden thrill.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

19. I agree with you Dookus

that gay/pedo stereotype is hideous and so far from the truth

[Mabel Dodge]

21. Sorry , but I want to hear more on the 15 year old story

I don't connect pedophilia with homosexuality, but there may be a connection with the 15 year old story.

In my book, those that hire prostitutes are questionable in their behavior. They may indulge themselves in other behavior that goes past the limits like pedophilia.

I would like this story dissected and any connections found, brought to light.

[norml]

23. George H.W. Bush placed at child sex party by Alicia Owens.

snip


If they did would FBI cover it up like they did in NEBRASKA when YALE graduate GEORGE HW BUSH was accused by ALICIA OWENS of attending a party in CHICAGO where child prostitutes were provided by LARRY KING, JR.
For details of NEBRASKA case, please refer to FRANKLIN COVER UP by JOHN DE CAMP. His client, PAUL BONACCI, sued KING in civil court and judge awarded him a $1 million judgment in part for 'satanic ritual abuse' in conjunction with child prostitution run from BOYS TOWN in OMAHA.
Wall Street billionaire, WARREN BUFFETT, was on BOARD of BOYS TOWN and a close friend of L KING,JR who sang national anthem at RepublicanParty conventions in 1982 and 1986. It ismy understanding that BUFFETT is heavily invested in your state.
What is the attraction of pedophiles to your state if they are not protected by people in high places? During BO GRITZ trial prosecution was forced to release to defense the heretofore sealed and suppressed MASSAMENO REPORT which recommended that ex-husband of LINDA WIEGAND be prosecuted or complaints made by the two said boys. However, the STATE ATTORNEY's office sealed the report and announced there was no evidence to prosecute said THOMAS WILKINSON.
Why? Maybe because he was employed by UNITED TECHNOLOGIES, the largest employer in your state, and GOV ROWLAND was a former lobbyist for UT.
And, now you have MAYOR GIORDANO of WATERBURY ( ROWLAND's hometown) in jail, busted by FBI for perverse sex acts with a child. Is there a pattern here or just a series of coincidences?
How high up does this go? Is it just another coincidence that SENATOR LIEBERMAN is a close friend of conservative WILLIAM BENNETT who was named with his brother, ROBERT, as a pedophile by the authors of TRANCE-FORMATION of AMERICA?
snip http://www.yaledailynews.com/forum_popup.asp?AID=4744



Nope, nothing to see here. :eyes:

[Dr Fate]

24. It's about the Republican "sex for sale" underworld- not orientation

I think any stories that highlight GOP/media hypocrisy are fair game.

Be it hetro, gay or hard-stuff- its the secrecy & "sex for sale" aspect that ties this bizzare web together...weird, weird stuff...

[Liberal In Texas]

25. If a link between Gannon and the CIA could be proven,

then you have a link to Franklin. Andy Stephenson brought that up in post #10

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3144209#3144272

If Jeff Gannon turns out to be the lost kidnapped boy, Johnny Gosch, you have a positive link to Franklin. (I feel this is unlikely, but there's no proof either way, yet.)

If the 15 year old scandal links to dirty ops today, it's huge. It means it is still going on, probably without pause for 15 years.

And how far are the tentacles? To highest seats of power?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

27. there is no link NOW

people are inventing one out of whole cloth.

It's despicable.

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. Dookus. I was reading this PDF about Johnny Gosch's kidnapping and

the name JAMES GANNON, editor of the Des Moines Register was in this article. It's an account of Gosch's kidnapping and the aftermath. Jammes Gannon was the editor at the time. Read this. I think there IS a connection. What are the odds of Jeff Gannon/James Gannon being connected to the same story? AND, for some odd reason, James Gannon didn't want to help the Gosch family. WHY????

http://www.johnnygosch.com/chap.pdf

Our detectives advised us to find a good composite artist to do a sketch
of the kidnapper. I called the Des Moines Art Center; they were very kind and
recommended a fine young artist. He worked with each of the witness’s separately,
then all together to create and refine the composite picture of the suspect.
This is another area, which Police failed to complete in the investigation.
As soon as the composite drawing was finished, I again called another press
conference to release the picture. As soon as our sketch was released, the police
then did a composite drawing also and it resembled a “MR.
POTATOHEAD!” Even the witnesses said it did not look like the driver of the
car, the suspect. We added this picture to our missing persons posters, which
have numbered into the millions sent out with across the country.
I decided to make an appeal to the Des Moines Register editor… James
Gannon, only to make someone aware of things the police were not doing in
the investigation. I had made repeated efforts to gain cooperation between the
police and our detectives from the beginning of the case. They simply would
not.
The result of my letter pleading for help was another disaster. Mr.
Gannon published it on the front page of the paper and allowed the police to
dissect it in print and make crude remarks. The letter was never intended to be
used for publicity … only as a plea for help for my little boy. It was another
blow to our family, the impact left me shell shocked, unable to sleep, severe
loss of weight because I simply could not eat under all of the stress.
I was afraid to open up the newspaper each morning, because I didn’t
know who would be attacking us next. Nor could I understand “why!” I kept
asking this question daily how could they do this and why … what was their
motives? Why would Gannon, the editor of the Des Moines Register encourage
and assist in the attacks against parents to find their child. Today, we know
many important people in business and in government are themselves
pedophiles or for one reason or another are sympathetic to those who are.
Pedophiles can be in any walk of life, male or female teachers, coaches, scout
leaders, politicians and police at all levels.

[Dookus]

31. Are you saying

Guckert was editor of the Des Moines Register in 1982?

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Nope. James Gannon was.

Is he a pedophile father of Jeff Gannon?? Is THAT why he didn't want to help the Gosch's find out if their son had been kidnapped by the pedophile ring? Was HE a part of the ring and offered up his son to those people? Was he a part of the ring and THAT is where Guckert/Gannon got the name because he too was in the ring? Maybe they aren't related, but are connected through the Nebraska Pedophile ring? Is Gannon/Guckert really Johnny Gosch...note the same initials..(all three intials are in another thread here on DU) There's many questions to be asked. :shrug:

Really. What are the odds that James Gannon/Jeff Gannon would be connected to the same story?

[Dookus]

36. I can't calculate the odds

because the question makes no sense.

The only connection between the stories is the name "Gannon", and we know it's a pseudonym for at least one of the participants.

Is Guckert really Johnny Gosch? I doubt it. Johnny Gosch was much younger than Guckert. And to be honest, I first read this Gosch story years ago, and I believe it's the product of a paranoid schizophrenic. There is no evidence of actual satanic pedophile cults. It was a hysteria of the 1980s, and a lot of innocent people were hurt by it.

It was similar to the kind of hysteria I'm seeing here in GD on this issue.

[norml]

41. I've met some of these people. I've been to John DeCamp's Lincoln home.

I was born in Nebraska. I live here still. I've heard things from other cases, and from other people, not even mentioned in the press. You don't know. These things really happened. I'd put them out of my mind. Now I want to spread the word.

[blondeatlast]

65. "Gannon" is a pseudonym for Jim Guckert. If a solid connection can be

made, have at it.

But this is a as tenuous a link as one could find.

It doesn't advance our cause in the least, in fact it makes us look desperate, indeed; and it hurts a large number of us.

If it proves false, the entire scandal topples and makes those who've worked so hard on it look like fools with an agenda--that's the last thing we need.

[flyarm]

60. that made me cry..i cried for that mother..and i cried for her lost son!

yes i agree with this..too much of a coinsidence of the names...i read this story on the otjer post and i think you have stumbled onto something very important here...

thanks for your research...we will get an answer..i just hopeits in time for mr gannon.

fly

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

35. Yes

that's the story you have posted again and again. It is the story that *I* maintain draws no actual link between the two scandals, other than that within the author's fevered imagination.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

38. instead of spamming the same lame story over and over

why not explain how there's a logical link between them?

[norml]

39. It's not the same story. It's different links to different aspects.

And the logical link is, as I've said before, it is GOP run prostitution rings. It's a shame that you are trying to suppress the investigation of this ever growing scandal.

[Dookus]

40. sorry

neither you nor anyone else has shown ANY link between the two.

I'm not trying to suppress investigation - I'm trying to suppress homophobic and stupid insinuations.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

47. And you are mistaken

Some others HAVE objected to the focus on Gannon's sexuality. I am not one of them. I'm all for plastering the words "gay prostitute" all over this scandal.

But I think linking it to a pedophilia scandal is entirely unwarranted at this point, and is only done because people seem to automatically link homosexuality and pedophilia, and that is wrong.

I also think some of the conspiracy nuts I've seen here do damage to the story. It makes it too easy to dismiss the REAL issues uncovered when people tie it to a satanic cult that ritually and sexually abuses children. It's so extreme and unwarranted that people won't believe ANY aspect of the story, even if it's true.

It's the equivalent of the right-wingers who adamantly believe Hillary killed Vince Foster or that Bill Clinton ran a cocaine smuggling ring, and is responsible for the murders of dozens of people. It's pure lunacy.

At this point, there is NO link whatsoever between Gannon and any pedophile ring. None. Zip. Nada.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

85. Yes

but the Catholic church is not representative of pedophiles. Most pedophilia is adult man/young girl.

The linking is lunacy because nobody has offered a single piece of evidence, and jumping to such an extreme conclusion based on zero evidence is purely and simply lunacy.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

102. self-deleted

I see the previous post was deleted before I got to respond.

[norml]

28. Over 1,000 Google search results for "franklin cover up guckert"

http://www.google.com/search?q=+franklin+cover+up+guckert&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=

[Carl Brennan]

43. Only a thousand?

come on you can do better than that, hee.

[norml]

91. Well, there are 16,300 Google results for "franklin cover up gannon"

Web Images Groups News Froogle LocalNew! more »

Advanced Search
Preferences





Web Results 1 - 10 of about 16,300 for franklin cover up gannon. (0.06 seconds)
Tip: Save time by hitting the return key instead of clicking on "search"

The Franklin Coverup Scandal The Child sex ring that reached Bush ...
The Franklin Coverup Scandal. The Child sex ring that reached Bush/Reagan Whitehouse. ...
Or you can view an online copy at this page. Franklin Cover up video page. ...
www.thelawparty.com/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

TBRNews.org
... Memories Of Franklin Coverup As Jeff Gannon, Republican CIA Operative, Removed ... John
DeCamp, in The Franklin Cover-Up: ... The Gannon scandal may not be that he was ...
tbrnews.org/Archives/a1385.htm - 27k - Feb 19, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

COVER UP
... tragic death on the set of "Cover Up," an accident ... and learn that Carlos has been
buying up stock in ... Hayden Guests: Richard Jaeckel, Carl Franklin, Tracy Reed ...
www.tvofyourlife.com/COVERUP.htm - 18k - Feb 18, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

BELLACIAO - TEXT MODE : "Gannon" scandal leads to link between ...
... DON’T FORGET THE: The Franklin Coverup Scandal. ... http://www.voxfux.com/features/
bush_child_sex_coverup/franklin.htm http ... to want any media to cover her story. ...
bellaciao.org/en/article_txt.php3?id_article=5319 - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

BELLACIAO - "Gannon" scandal leads to link between high-level ...
... Gannon" scandal leads to link between high-level Republicans, high-level Democrats
16th February 2005 - 20h57. DON’T FORGET THE: The Franklin Coverup Scandal. ...
bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5319 - 65k - Cached - Similar pages

Cover Up - Episode Guide - TV Tome
... 2. Cover Up (2). ... The hitmen try to bug her aparment and Cindy shows up, there's a ...
gs: Richard Jaeckel (Joe Stanton) Carl Franklin (Paul Cooper) Tracy Reed (Anne ...
www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/EpisodeGuideSummary/ showid-5908/season-1/Cover_Up/ - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

Forums - Underage Homos Return to White House
... To The White House Memories Of Franklin Coverup As Jeff ... www.thela wparty.com/
FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm] Republicans ... good cut-out once its cover is blown. ...
engforum.pravda.ru/showthread. php3?threadid=117794&goto=nextnewest - 45k - Cached - Similar pages

We Demand a Special Prosecutor for "Jeff Gannon" | Democrats.com ...
... and turn the other way, just as they did with Franklin Coverup. ... administration is
trying to keep the cover on....don ... They paved paradise and put up a parking lot ...
democrats.com/gannon - 81k - Feb 19, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

MackWhite.com
... Flu Shots for Elderly Don't Save Lives GOP: Gay Old Party (Or, The Franklin
Cover-Up Redux?) Stirring the White House honey pot ''Jeff Gannon'': Meet Karl Rove ...
www.mackwhite.com/ - 71k - Feb 19, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

WhatReallyHappened.com: February 2005 Archives
... at Richard Perle. Washington and Canberra cover up Indonesian military ... 30 kilograms
of plutonium. The Franklin Coverup Scandal The ... Fibbing It Up at Fox by Dale ...
www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/2005_02.html - 101k - Feb 19, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=+franklin+cover+up+gannon&btnG=Search

[TrogL]

29. I realize you're being sarcastic, but there's a problem

If this does in fact become linked, it provides them the opportunity to exploit a logical fallacy - "straw man".

If we provide the link, then it proves out false, they can attempt to use this to tar the main story, John Gannon" with the same brush. Unless you understand the logical fallacy (which most people don't) it's easy to fall for.

It's a variant on crying wolf.

[Dookus]

32. I wasn't being sarcastic in the slightest

I was very serious.

And you're right, promoting these non-existent links will be used to minimize any aspect of this story that turns out to be true.

[Carl Brennan]

42. A common link between the pedophracy and

the Gannon scandal is prostitution and the profits it brings.


There may be others but that is one link

[Minstrel Boy]

44. And of course, bizarre privileged access to the White House. n/t

[Dookus]

104. So we're to believe

that the Bush family concerns itself with the $200/hour fee an internet whore charges for his time and/or favors?

[Sparkle]

48. I think it's because some thought Gannon was one of the minors at the time

That's all.

[Dookus]

49. But the question

is WHY would anyone jump to that conclusion? Because gay people MUST'VE been molested as children?

Edit: And from what I understand, Guckert was hardly a child during the Bush I administration. He would've been well into his late 20s or early 30s.

[Minstrel Boy]

50. Guckert's age

on his escort profile, his age works out to be 35 now.

[Dookus]

52. And other sources I've seen

put him at 46 or so.

Ya think maybe some people fib a little when selling themselves for sex?

But even if he WAS 35, that would put him at 19 when GHWB took office - hardly the object of pediphiliac desire.

[Sparkle]

56. Imo, Guckert doesn't look 46. He looks like he could be 30ish.

He's lied about everything else, he's probably lying about his age. Oh, and I see what you mean when you said that gay people being molested. Sorry.

[Dookus]

57. In my experience

people advertising for sex partners on the internet rarely add years to their actual age.

[Minstrel Boy]

74. There weren't only underage kids being run by Spence.

Some late teens, early twenties.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

54. awwww, Retrolounge

sorry, I'll reserve a little of my outrage for the idiocy found on the left, too.

Idiocy like asserting that Gannon might've been one of the kids used in that scandal - except for the fact that he would've been 30 years old at the time. That is idiocy, and I'll point it out at will, despite your displeasure.

There is NO link between Gannon and a 15 year-old pedophilia scandal. Instead of attacking me about it, why not produce something that shows such a link?

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

64. I hope it's enjoyable

I'm not exactly outraged. I'm asking people to stop and think about WHY they automatically link these two disparate stories. I think the reason is less-than-pretty. It has to do with misconceptions and prejudices, rather than actual evidence.

[RetroLounge]

70. I think people are just TOO excited about a scandal

and are spouting off.

It's the one we've been waiting for, and they just hope it has legs...

RL

[Dookus]

75. we agree on that

But I think jumping to the sorts of conclusions some people have is counterproductive to this story having legs. Outrageous assertions that have no basis in fact make it easy for other people and the media to just dismiss anything we have to say. There may be a real scandal here - and if there is, I hope we find it as much as you do.

But I'm disappointed that so many people, when hearing about a homosexual, immediately think of pedophilia. It's based on a long history of bigotry and misconceptions about gays.

[yardwork]

116. Real stories go away when they are linked with conspiracy theories

If I were Karl Rove, desperately trying to figure out how to make the embarrassing facts of the Gannon/Guckert story - the FACTS that the White House gave a press pass to an unqualified non-journalist clearly representing the right-wing, and repeatedly called on him so that he could ask "softball questions" of the president, while ignoring the questions and requests for press passes from better-qualified journalists - I can think of no better way to make this story go away than to link it with an outrageous conspiracy theory.

DUers, please think about this. What good does it do us to link the known FACTS about the Gannon/Guckert story with tenuous and bizarre conspiracy theories? All we do is confuse the issue.

Who does this approach really help? It helps the White House.
All this does is help the White House get rid of the Gannon story.

Please think about that.

[Sparkle]

73. For some guy that talks out of his ass, makes a lot of sense sometimes.

:-)

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

58. welcome to DU

do you have something of substance to add to the discussion?

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andy_Stephenson]

61. I sent Mrs Gosch an email.

Followed by a phone call. Here is her response

"Andy,

Thank you for taking the time to email me the photo link. I have already contacted my PI and we will be checking this out as much as possible.

If I have any questions, I will get in touch with you.

Regards,


Noreen "

[Clark2008]

66. Boom.

Thank you, Andy.

[Sparkle]

69. Wow. Good deal.

Keep us posted.

[flyarm]

88. thank you andy!!! you know how i feel..no need to explain again!! n/t

[Clark2008]

63. I think a little clearing up is necessary

No one is trying to link being gay with being a pedaphile.
I think you should read this: http://www.johnnygosch.com/gunderson_report.html specifically, because it discusses that the prostitution ring was comprised of both gay prostitutes AND children.
"Politicians, dignitaries, wealthy business people. Young people. Larry, as far as I could gather, I left when I stared putting the pieces together, you know, realizing there were two sets of books.
"There were very, various discrepancies in the credit union. And the fact that he obviously was into pimping gay prostitutes and children too, basically for influence purposes. Whether it be politicians or whatever.
As someone who posted some on the thread and (mostly) watched the thread in question unfold last night, no one suggested that there is a definitive link between being abused as a child and growing up to be gay. In fact, I think someone asked *if* there was any research in this regard and others said there wasn't.
It's not about being gay: it's about being sold to the elite for a power trip over children and young adults. Period.
Now, whether Gannon is Gosch is pure speculation based on some simliarities between the young boy and Jim Guckert. It may be hogwash, but I think the clear passageway to the "smoking gun," if you will, is the prostitution - gay, straight or in the abduction of children. It's the illegal activity.
Seriously, why would someone use the name Jim Gannon that could so easily been linked to the weird goings-on in the Gosch case? It quite possibly be pure coincidence, but why not check it out?
Besides, it's an interesting theory and brings back into the forefront the issue regarding Lawrence King, Franklin and the, guess who? Republican Party.

[Dookus]

68. I read the Johnny Gosch story years ago

as I said above. I think it's the product of a paranoid schizophrenic.

Now as to whether Gannon is Gosch, one can simply check their ages.

Do you REALLY think an evil, satanic cult that kidnaps and rapes children would take one of the more widely-known children in their possession and make him a White House reporter? It strains credulity.

[Clark2008]

71. I told you that may be hogwash

I was simply replying to the issue of whether linking the scandals is sullying gay people. I don't think anyone intended to do that.

[Dookus]

77. let's be clear here...

SOME have argued that focusing on Gannon's sexuality is insulting to gays. I am not one of them. I think it's just fine and dandy to point out he's a gay prostitute, considering the hypocrisy involved.

My concern is a little more subtle - that the automatic linking of homosexuality with a long-ago pedophile scandal, where there is absolutely NO evidence of such a link, is rooted in an ugly history of people equating gays with child molestors.

That said, if somebody brings up some evidence of this link, I'll consider it and if it's convincing, I'll accept it.

But so far I haven't seen a lick of evidence. Nothing. Not a single damned thing beyond the fact that Guckert's pseudonymous last name was the same as the editor of a Des Moines newspaper 20 years ago. That's not terribly convincing.

[Andy_Stephenson]

78. No indeed. It was not.

I'm gay. It is not about being gay...it is and always has been about the hipocracy.

[Minstrel Boy]

76. "It strains credulity."

Everything strains my credulity these days.

I'm sorry, really, but this world ain't the one you think it is.

[The Magistrate]

80. Yes, It Is, Sir

It is the same damned old world it always has been....

"There is nothing new under the sun."

[Minstrel Boy]

82. It's the same world. But we aren't the same,

once we see it.

[The Magistrate]

83. Of Course We Are, Sir

"The last and greatest illusion is belief that one has no illusions."

[progressivebydesign]

79. It's the prostitution.. not the gayness.

THAT is what people are referring to. I can't believe how many people are willing here on DU to give that prostitute a free pass because he's gay. If it were a female prostitute, there would be no end to the debate on it.

Thusly.. it's the PROSTITUTION that is driving the comparisons to the scummy episode with King. NOT the gay thing.

[The Magistrate]

81. Who Is Giving Guckert A Pass, Ma'am?

Some people are using this as an occassion for raking up old tales of pedophilia, and some are pointing out there is not a shred of evidence linking the two episodes, nor any reason to infer from the fact of a homosexual male prostitute being involved in some matter, that pedophilia is also involved.

[Dookus]

89. I'm certainly not suggesting he be given any sort of free pass....

he should be exposed for the lying shill that he is.

That's a far cry, though, from connecting him to a pedophile scandal.

[chefgirl]

92. But what if there turns out to be a connection?

I will grant you that being gay does not in any way equate to being a pedophile, but in this dirty old world, the people who are prone to traffic in one are more apt to traffic in the other.

I dont believe anyone here on DU is associating the two, except in the sense that a lot of the same duplicitous, secretive, criminal assholes that were present in the first Bush administration are again present in this one.

The link being, if they were possibly trafficing in pedophilia years ago, are they not at least a little suspect, with respect to gay prostitution, now?

But, back to my original question...What if there turns out to be a connection? Are you saying that you wouldnt want it to be exposed because as a gay man it would offend you that gay prostitution and pedophilia are both being used as tools of exploitation by this group?

More importantly, though, how are we going to find out the answer to that question if investigation is effectively stifled by people like you who feel offended at those who suspect an apparent connection?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but you keep saying there is NO connection. I don't think you can possibly be certain of that until ALL the facts have been uncovered.

Let the chips fall where they may, no matter who it offends. We must first feel free and unfettered in the unearthing of the facts.

-chef-

[Dookus]

94. if there turns out to be a connection

people will provide evidence and we'll deal with it.

But why not presume there's a connection to a drug-dealing ring, or the mafia, or the asian sex-slave trade, or any of a thousand other sordid affairs? Why pick this ONE old affair to try to forge a link that doesn't exist? Because people want to believe where there's homosexuality, there's pedophilia.

I feel I am perfectly correct in saying that as of now, there is NO connection. The only connection exists in the fevered minds of those who want to pin the most awful crimes on the Bush family, evidence be damned.

Have you even READ the lame excuses for a "link" in this thread? The fact that Guckert's pseudonym uses the same last name as that of the Editor of the Des Moines Register two decades ago is supposed to be meaningful? That Guckert is/was/might be the abducted Grosch child, despite the fact there's at least a ten year difference in their ages and that it's ludicrous to think that an evil upper-echelon pedophile ring would put its most famous victim in the White House Press pool?

There is no link.

Find one and we can talk. Until then, it's pure insanity.

[chefgirl]

97. This is my point

>>There is no link.

Find one and we can talk. Until then, it's pure insanity.<<

You tell me to find a link and we can talk, but you keep pounding it into everyones head that there IS NO LINK and we should just stop talking about the two things in the same breath.

Yes, I've read the reasons given in this thread as to why some people think there is a connection, and I happen to agree with you, some are VERY thin at best, but my question remains:

What if there is a link??? How are we to find that out if people keep running around telling everyone there isnt one and they should stop talking about it???

-chef-

[The Magistrate]

96. There Is No Link, Ma'am

There is nothing that proves any member of a previous Republican administration was involved in such traffic; there is some reason to believe a particular figure in the Nebraska state party organization was.

Your point about trafficking in persons sounds better than it actually is. First, Guckert trafficked himself, and was not put the business b anyone. A great many prostitutes are free-lance entrepeneurs; the existance of a prostitute does not imply trafficking in unwilling flesh. Second, the clientel and procurement procedures for the "top-man" and "chicken" markets are very different. There is no particular reason to suppose an overlap. A sculptor skilled in shaping marble would not be safely assumed to be a wizard at casting bronze.

[chefgirl]

100. And to you, Sir

>>Your point about trafficking in persons sounds better than it actually is. First, Guckert trafficked himself, and was not put the business b anyone<<

Do you have some way of proving that to me??

>>the existance of a prostitute does not imply trafficking in unwilling flesh.<<

It doesn't implicitly rule it out either, Sir.

>>A sculptor skilled in shaping marble would not be safely assumed to be a wizard at casting bronze.<<

But he 'could' be, and thats the whole point.


I have no dog in this fight, I would just urge you and everyone else who is just as sure there is NO link, as those who are sure that there IS, to think twice about attempting to diminish people for wanting to dig down deep until EVERY fact has been uncovered. Pretty simple, Sir.

-chef-

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[norml]

122. It's about murder. The Bush Body Count: Gary Caradori

The Bush Body Count: Gary Caradori


The Bush Body Count



HIGH SCORES

14.813 dead

OPPONENT
ASSASSINATIONS ?

CONVENIENT SUICIDE 7
CONVENIENT
PLANE CRASHES 10
DEATH
PENALTY 152
9/11
WTC 2,801
9/11
PENTAGON 190
AFGHANI
CIVILIANS 4,000
IRAQI CIVILIANS 7653



snip



Mark Lombardi

He was an accomplished conceptual artist who, while chatting on the phone with a banker friend about the Bush savings and loan scandal, started doodling a diagram and was inspired to create a complex series of drawings and sketches that charted the details of the scandal. According to the New York Times, "He was soon charting the complex matrices of personal and professional relationships, conflict of interest, malfeasance and fraud uncovered by investigations into the major financial and political scandals of the day; to keep facts and sources straight, he created a handwritten database that now includes around 12,000 3-by-5-inch cards."
On the evening of March 22, 2000, Mark Lombardi was found hanging in his loft, an apparent suicide.



Danny Casolaro

He was working on a book that tied together the scandals surrounding the presidency of George H. W. Bush. He told his friends he was going to "bring back" the head of the Octopus. Instead, his body was found in a hotel in Martinsburg, West Virginia, on August 10, 1991, an apparent suicide.
Steve Kangas

His web site, Liberalism Resurgent, was meticulously researched and presented such a problem to the "real boss" of George Bush, Richard Scaife, that he hired a private detective to look into Kangas' past. Steve Kangas was found in a 39th-floor bathroom outside of Scaife's offices at One Oxford Centre, in Pittsburgh, an apparent suicide. Mr. Kangas, a very prolific writer, left no note. He had brought a fully-packed suitcase of clothes with him to Pittsburgh. He bought a burglar alarm shortly before he left for Pittsburgh. Why did he need a burglar alarm if he was going to commit suicide? An avowed advocate of gun control, he nevertheless bought a gun. What was he afraid of? Why did he go to Pittsburgh? After his death, his computer was sold for $150 and its hard drive wiped clean. Everything in his apartment was thrown away.

snip


Gary Caradori
He was investigating Lawrence E. King, Jr., a very influential black Republican who was also a friend of George H.W. Bush. King was director of the Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska, and was suspected of embezzling $40 million. The Nebraska Senate questioned child prostitutes, who accused King of running a child prostitution ring. One of these children said that she saw George H.W. Bush at one of King's parties. "Pronto", a newspaper in Barcelona, Spain, reported that the scandal "appears to directly implicate politicos of the state of Nebraska and Washington DC who are very close to the White House and George Bush himself". Gary Caradori claimed that he had evidence that supported these allegations. On July 11, 1990, Gary Caradori was killed along with his 6-year old son in the crash of his small plane, after a mid-air explosion, the cause of which was never discovered. He had told friends repeatedly in the weeks before his death that he was afraid his plane would be sabotaged.





snip http://www.zen13351.zen.co.uk/reflect/my%20thoughts/bush%20body%20count.htm


By the way, those are some excellent points you're making chefgirl.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

95. You don't get it, do you?

the fact that people make insane assertions is no proof of the truthfulness of those assertions.

Now can you provide any actual link between Gannon and the old pedophile scandal? Or can you only quote articles from nutcases who believe there must be a link because a) where there's homos, there's child-fuckers and b) Bush must be a satanic child rapist... just cuz.

[norml]

98. Thanks once again for starting this thread.

It's brought more attention to this than all of the threads I started on this combined. And that's funny, because in all of the threads I started on The Franklin Cover Up, you were the one who brought up Gannon. I don't think he's the same kidnapped paperboy, but I am starting to think that there may be more of a connection between Gannon, and The Franklin Cover Up, than I had thought before.

[Dookus]

103. You're welcome

this way people who read your insane articles will at least have the benefit of seeing the responses of people who tend to spend a little more time dealing with reality than the authors.

[norml]

106. That's what they said about my threads on "pulsed microwave technology"

"microwave weapons" and "synthetic telepathy"

[Dookus]

107. synthetic telepathy...

thanks. I needed a good laugh.

[norml]

108. It's a Pentagon term for the hearing of pulsed microwaves.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22synthetic+telepathy%22&btnG=Search RESONANCE > > Newsletter of the Bioelectromagnetics Special ...> > --- SYNTHETIC TELEPATHY > > by Judy Wall > > BACKGROUND > > Synthetic telepathy is a term ...
www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/conspire/syn.txt - 27k - Cached - Similar pages


OAK: New Physics-Sythetic Telepathy and the Early Mind WarsFrom Synthetic Telepathy by Richard Alan Miller-The two suits held me under close arrest, while the two Army personnel went through my files, pulling anything ...
www.nwbotanicals.org/oak/ newphysics/synthtele/synthtele.html - 101k - Cached - Similar pages


Models of Synthetic Telepathy... Americans.] Models of Synthetic Telepathy. Allen Barker, July 31, 2002. This ... others. General Concepts in Synthetic Telepathy Models. Recall ...
www.datafilter.com/alb/modelsOfSyntheticTelepathy.html - 44k - Cached - Similar pages


Synthetic Telepathy: and The Early Mind Wars... of therapeutic medicine." "Synthetic Telepathy". In 1975 ... through the air). Also known as "Synthetic Telepathy.". While transmission ...
www.raven1.net/synthtel.htm - 101k - Cached - Similar pages


Moving On - Children of the Children of God... Quote for the day. re: www.MyConclusion.com. Respect yourself. Squeeze AND Jerk. Strange things are happening. SYNTHETIC TELEPATHY. Techi!! ... SYNTHETIC TELEPATHY. ...
www.movingon.org/article. asp?sID=3&Cat=39&ID=1158 - 59k - Cached - Similar pages


The Pentagon on Synthetic Telepathy... The Pentagon on Synthetic Telepathy. by "Raktizer Omheit" <cequka@ > Dec 12, 2004 at 10:58 AM. ... The Pentagon on Synthetic Telepathy. ...
www.talkaboutgovernment.com/group/ talk.politics.soviet/messages/56013.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages


Telepathy... These are the laser equivalent of microwave beams. These MASER beams have been used to develop something called synthetic telepathy. ...
www.whale.to/b/telepathy.html - 10k - Cached - Similar pages


Return to Synthetic Telepathy and the Early Mind WarsReturn to Synthetic Telepathy and the Early Mind Wars. http://www.geocities.com/ nwbotanicals1/oak/refsynthtele.html. BOOKS ON MIND CONTROL. ...
www.whale.to/b/books1.html - 61k - Cached - Similar pages
< More results from www.whale.to >


The Pentagon on Synthetic Telepathy... The Pentagon on Synthetic Telepathy. by "Raktizer Omheit" <cequka@ > Nov 18, 2004 at 09:56 AM. ... The Pentagon on Synthetic Telepathy. ...
www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/ alt.christnet.ethics/messages/29569.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages


Models of Synthetic TelepathyModels of Synthetic Telepathy. by Allen Barker Email. ... Even the open, non-secret technology related to synthetic telepathy is advancing rapidly. ...
www.heart7.net/models.html - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

[Carl Brennan]

101. See #42. nt

[ultraist]

110. This pretty much explains it...

snip from your link:

http://www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/conspire/syn.txt
But suppose the sound heard is definitely a human speech
> pattern? The Bible records the story of young Samuel, under the
> tutelage of Eli. One night Samuel is awakened from his sleep by a
> voice calling his name. He runs to Eli, saying, "Here I am." The
> priest dismisses the boy. It happens again. It happens a third time. This time Eli says to Samuel, "Go lie down; and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak Lord, for thy servant heareth."
> The voice called to Samuel again, and he answered as he had been
> directed. And the Lord spoke to Samuel.
>
> This is not the only case recorded. The Bible is replete with
> accounts of humans hearing and responding to voices in the air. But
> identifying the source of the voice is of major importance. Is it the
> voice of God, and angel, a devil, an animal (recall the story of
> Balaam being rebuked by his ass), or other humans playing tricks on
> that person?

[The Magistrate]

111. What Does This Explain, Ma'am?

[ultraist]

113. The type of "research" he/she is relying on to make this link of

Gays and pedophiles. If that is the quality of research that this person relies on, well...draw your conclusions.

I'm not surprised it's religiously oriented either to be quite frank.

I'm also not surprised to see this after the Roy Cohn info was posted and after all of this: Is Bush Gay? Is Rove Gay? Is Ari Gay? Is Scott Gay? Is Rush gay? Is Cooper Gay? Is Ann Coulter transgendered? :eyes:

I do not think the OP author is being unreasonable about this at all and I'm straight. I was sick when I saw this link being made. It is a typical homophobic link to be drawn. Gay male=pedophile.

[The Magistrate]

115. Thank You For Satisfying My Curiousity, Ma'am

[Liberal In Texas]

121. You're way out of line on this.

NOBODY is saying gay=pedophile, you're reading too much into that. And you've managed to get yourself all in a dither because of it.

If anybody is "tired of seeing this", I suggest you don't open the threads. Go to the lounge or something.

[norml]

105. I asked Hunter S. Thompson about The Franklin Cover Up.

When he came to speak at UNL, I remember asking Hunter S. Thompson what he though about The Franklin Cover Up. He said he didn't know anything about that, but he did talk about Neil Bush, Silverado Savings and Loan, and what a scandal that was.

[ultraist]

114. Fine, do your "research"

But must you post those bogus articles? You are over sensationalizing the story and that takes away creditability.

IF you find a creditable link, fine. Post that AFTER you find it. But many of us are sick of seeing this. There is NO LINK between this case or the Hoover/Cohn case and Gannon.

It is dangerous to spread the myths that Gays are pedophiles or that Gays are damaged goods because they were molested as children (ie must be healed and converted to heterosexuals). There is a lot of scholary research on this, this is not just my oppinion.

[norml]

120. I think it's the Credibility Police here who have no credibility.

There is no over sensationalizing of the Franklin Cover Up Scandal. Whatever articles that mention it, or mention different aspects of it, I will post. Nothing to see here? I don't think so. And who's spreading gay=pedophile myths? You'll find non of that in my posts. You are floating that issue. I just saw a mention of things surrounding Franklin, and I wanted to get some awareness, and some research going on that. Now I'm thinking that it may in some indirect way be connected with the Gannon story. It's not about anyone being gay. It's about robbery, kidnapping, prostitution, blackmail, and murder.

[norml]

124. "Larry King?" " You mean the talk show host?" What Hunter said...

When I briefly explained the Franklin cover up to him, as part of my question.

[deutsey]

117. I think the original story, as reported in the Washington Times,

dealt with a homosexual prostitution ring.



http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/1570946.php

Hence the connection people are making to Gannon.

Personally, I don't give a fuck who they screwing in private, as Michael Franti sings. I wanna know who they screwing in public.

However, I don't see where it's far afield to examine Gannon's ties to the White House and gay prostitution within the context of the previous "callboy" scandal from 1989.

[Ivote]

118. Good Breakdown On Franklin Cover up

With video that was to air on the Discovery Channel and then was scrubbed
http://www.thelawparty.org/Franklincoverup.htm

[norml]

123. Here are links to three other threads doing research on this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1609959&mesg_id=1609959 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3144209&mesg_id=3144209 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3144209&mesg_id=3148409&page=

[DURHAM D]

125. This story is not about the victims - its about the perps !.

If anyone wants to discuss a connection between the recent White House incident and the Bush one incident they should be discussing which adults/perpetraters were involved.

This whole thread seems like a red herring. We just get real busy discussing the wrong end of the elephant.