People: Bush is NOT Hitler.

Okay, I know he IS a bastard. I won't dispute that. I know he has done some terrible things, and probably devastated our country for years to come, and that's just the prologue.

But Bush is NOT as bad as Hitler. These comparisons do NOTHING to help our cause. It didn't help when MoveOn.org did it, and it's not helping now. It drives away moderates, and does NOT energize our base. In short: it hurts us.

Bush has NOT rounded up people into camps. He has NOT turned America into a police state.

In Hitler's Germany, if you disagreed with him, you were sent to a camp. You didn't come back.

In Bush's America, if you disagree, you have a very heated argument before you are told your sources have no credibility because they aren't Fox News.

In Hitler's Germany, if you weren't Anglo-Saxon, you, at best, were discriminated against in every way. Jews had to wear yellow stars to identify themselves. At worst, you were sent to death camps.

In Bush's America, if you aren't a white male, you are probably discriminated against, but not on the level of Hitler's Germany. Don't believe me?

When was the last time you ever heard of an American Krystalnaucht? Or perhaps you've heard of gays' and blacks' businesses being nationalized and them being forced into ghettos? Or maybe there are people who have been funneled into forced labor camps who you know?

There are similarities of course. Both use demagoguery to gain support, but Bush simply uses it to pass laws. Hitler actively KILLED SIX MILLION people based on his bigoted delusions.

What Bush has done is wrong. I emphatically agree with this. He is a bastard, and is our worst president. He deserves to be impeached.

But he is not ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL THE IRAQIS. He is not so monstrous that he kills people simply because he can.

Make no mistake. I am not endorsing this bastard. He is going to hell. He is a corrupt, egotistical fuckbrain. What he is doing in Iraq is wrong in every way. But. . .

Let me repeat this: BUSH IS NOT HITLER. HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE HITLER. HE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HITLER OR HIS AGENDA.

Bush just wants to rob this country blind. Period. No imperialistic ambitions, no grandiose crusades for Christ. He just wants to help his cronies get as much money as they can, regardless of the legality or morality of its obtainment.

He just wants to take this country's money for the rich. Period.

Every time a DU'er say's 'Bush is Hitler' or compares the two, it makes me, and A LOT of other voters, sick.

You dishonor the many millions of people killed by Hitler. You dishonor these victims as much as Bush does the 9-11 victims every time he invokes 9/11 to pass a law or gain 'political capital'. It is wrong. Bush is not the monster Hitler was.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to put on a flame proof suit.

on edit: grammar and clarity.

shrub has only been in power 4 years. it took hitler a while to escalate


The Incorrigible Democrat

Hitler was in power for 12 years, and it took him another 11 before that to obtain it.

Bush is here for 8 years, and he's gone.

And the elections are clearly a farce now.

Can you say Ahnuld? It's all part of the plan folks...gives me chills just knowing the guy is our Governor....he's ruining the state and some people here just get all whipped up for the guy when they see his starpower....scary....

i hope so, my friend...


The Incorrigible Democrat

industrialized country on the planet.

Create an emergency, and all bets are off. He owns the Congress, the Judiciary, and the Executive branches, there are no checks and balances anymore.

Personally, I wouldn't bet on that.

Hitler was only supposed to be in office for a term, too.

claiming that there would be no election in 2004 and Bush would cancel them and declare himself dictator.

Now since that turned out wrong I guess it's time to start up the no election in 2008 threads after Bush declares himself dictator.

he's a figure head just like Reagan was. The power behind the throne is what is important.

I have always believed that Reagan was the front guy just like Bush. Same people running the bush administration were also in his.
To think that they would even consider giving up their power under any curcumstances, well, people are just dreaming. What they have started they have wanted forever, and they are not about to turn over the reigns to people not of like mind.

But yes things are THAT serious folks. Don't even try to fool yourself that we are not in just as much if not more danger from these people.

There is already serious talk of Constitutional Amendments to either allow the Governator to take over, or to allow Bush more terms of office.

Adolf Hitler was all in favor of WWI and went to War in 1916 when his country called.

Asshole Bush was in favor of the Viet-Nam War, but opted out.

Other than that, there's not much difference.

...he just plays one on TV

gets to revise the Consitution. I remember hearing he tried sometime after his first election. Did anybody hear this or is it just a rumor?

his country and destroyed their freedoms. It didn't take him long to remove progressive measures and turn his country into a fascist police state.

Also, he started at the bottom.

Bush was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

but hitler had a country in depression to work with. he could upset the natural order with not as much resistance. america was in good shape (well, relatively) when shrub took over, so its not as easy to change. im not saying he WILL, god i hope not, but it is a different environment


The Incorrigible Democrat

who opposed him. Bush doesn't. He's tied up his forces in Iraq. He can't use them. And, contrary to most opinions here, most moderates and some conservatives wouldn't let him have the type of control that he'd need to implement a dictatorship.

he was popularly elected. and with corporate giants under his control, bush doesn't need a physical military force. and, imagine a terror emergency, multiple attacks on the US. decleration of martial law. no undeclaration. when people are in fear, they do not think clearly


The Incorrigible Democrat

but bush still has (relatively) legitamate power. we haven't reached a point yet where he has to do anything to keep it. four years is a long time


The Incorrigible Democrat

true with 9/11....

He only has to be a tiny bit as bad to do worse damage.

He is removing progressive measures at blinding speed: voting rights (see 2000, 2004), personal liberties (Patriot Act, among others), progressive taxation, and next up is the corporatization of Social Security. Are you paying attention?

filibuster. I'm not saying they will. But they can.

Nobody in Hitler's Germany could veto his options. No body could filibuster them.

*is not Hitler. Okay, he's not. But do you deny the fascism that has overtaken our system of government?

I'm not flaming, I don't flame anyone. I just want to be clear on your thoughts.

Up his nose.

is if people try to make the argument that he's somehow less than a Hitler.

He is not.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Hitler won an election.

But otherwise, the similarities are amazing. Bush _has_ rounded people up into death camps, and they have disappeared perhaps forever. Have you forgotten Guantanamo and Abu Graib?

Bush presents a multiracial facade, but on the ground, he actively promotes racism. Twice he has had his brother Jeb purge thousands of legitimate voters from the roles, based on database criteria which correlate to, or directly reveal, race. In Ohio his minions disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of voters on racial lines, by targeting specific neighborhoods, for example.

Bush is murdering and torturing hundreds of thousands of Iraqui men women and children, most of whom have done nothing more egregious than get in the way of a bomb or a bullet. He is not up to 6 million yet, but clearly he has no more compassion for Arabs than Hitler had for Jews.

Just yesterday, Bush's Republinazis proudly and unanimously endorsed torture, be elevating Bush's Mengele (Gonzales) to high office.

Bush has not yet caught up to Hitler's numbers, but he is "working hard" to do so.

And let us not forget the importance of the media, and their part in the propaganda machine. True, Hitler had the Dept. of propaganda, with * it is more of every Federal dept. contains and administers the information that the WH wants the public to have.

* 'Journalists' on the administration's payroll to "get out a message"

* A non-journalists (but posing to be one, no one really knows who he is) has access to WH briefings. Before he asks his 'softball questions', he makes statements criticizing any one who would question the administration.

* Items that would have been important stories 20 years ago, get maybe a 5 second statement read twice on the MSM before they disappear from American journalism forever.

* MSM that outright critisizes a dissenting line of thought or issue

* MSM simply ignoring--blackout--of major news stories.

All other political parties were outlawed. Jewish businesses were boycotted. German Trade Unions were dissovled. Thousands of anti-Nazi Jewish-authored and "degenerate" books were burned.

http://www.english.uwosh.edu/henson/TBIS/nazitimeline.h...

And that was just in his first year of power.

Redistricting Texas, privately promoting the recall in California, the longshore strike, privatizing fed jibs to further weaken unions...I see LOTS of corollaries..the Dixie Chicks..etc..things take longer in a population of over 300 million

The republicans were just doing what they could to increase their influence. It's not right, but it's politically tactful.

The Dems can still oppose Bush. They can still stand up. The opposition in Germany didn't exist four years after Hitler took power.

They 'technically' still exist here, if they'd actually do something.

that couldn't hold up to a LARGE population and our constitution. Our very form of government IS under attack by these people.

There ARE comparisons that are valid...and those have been pointed out to you ad nauseum on this thread.

when you can marginalize them?

would not exist.

Many of us would have disappeared.

Democratic legislators would have been removed from the congress.

Opposition leaders would have disappeared or been assasinated.

The very fact that you can write that Bush is Hitler proves that he is not.

www.newamericancentury.org

I don't buy for a minute that he's just some dumb guy who rose to power by relying on his family name, and that he just abrogates everything to more sinister masterminds with whom he surrounds himself. I lived in Texas when he was governor there, and he definitely has agendas and ideas. He may be working to advance the agenda of the PNAC and the Dominionists but I truly believe those are the ideas he supports as well.

Yes, Bush is not shipping people off to concentration camps (though people are "disappearing" to be held in places like Gitmo, and there have been reports that people are being murdered there). In that sense the Bush-Hitler link seems overblown. But the conditions in this country are ripe for a state like Nazi Germany to happen again (seen any of the Freeper posts about putting liberals in internment camps?) and we have a president who *knows* this. Said president also has a long family history of supporting Hitler's regime. Also, remember all the pics from the We're Not Sorry site in which people were making threats against liberals and showing off their many firearms? We've now had at least two cases of seriously mismanaged elections in which there may have been outright fraud, people are being held without access to lawyers, tortured in our prisons despite not being convicted of anything, and for the most part the American people has just rolled over and yawned. We have a way too sizable percentage of Americans that are willing to disregard their Constitutional rights for the sake of "safety from terrorism". We have a society in which people are cowed by fear and want to silence dissidents, and a president who is a megalomaniac. The potential for another Holocaust is too great.

The Ward Churchill story is being used to distract from this fact AND the war crimes charges against Rumsfeld in Germany AND the committee demanding release of CIA documents of US complicity with Nazi war crimes by March 2005.

The committee was formed in 1998 and supposed to expire in 3/05.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/hr071498/holtzman.html
(Testimony on H.R. 4007 The Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act 7/14/1998)

Since the CIA is stonewalling, Richard Ben Veniste just went public in the NYT European online edition to compel the CIA to cough up before the demise of the committee in 3/05.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/30/international/europe/...
(New York Times, CIA Rebuffs Request for Nazi War Crime Documents)

So true to Operation Mockingbird's CIA-steered media tactics, the Churchill diversionary story has been inflamed to channel outrage towards him and away from the topic of US-Nazi ties and war crimes.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MOCK/...
(Operation Mockingbird: The Subversion of the Free Press by the CIA)

In fact, Churchill himself may be intentionally distracting since academia is filled with CIA infiltration and budget reliance.
http://www.cia-on-campus.org /
(The CIA on Campus)

The US bankers at Harriman Brown Bros. including Grandpa Prescott Bush financed the rise of Hitler and then ran the Marshall Plan after the complete destruction of Europe, thereby making the US the dominant economic power on the planet. This is what was done with Saddam, too.
Prescott Bush went on to be a US Senator despite having his financial holdings confiscated in 1942. That should tell you something.


http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_acti...
(Bush-Nazi Dealings Continued Until 1951-Federal Documents)

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street /
(Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Antony Sutton)

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_amer...
(The Rise of American Fascism by Geoff Price)

http://www.padrak.com/alt/BUSHBOOK.html#BOOKPARTS
(George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography - see section 2)


(1938 Better Homes and Gardens, A William Randolph Hearst publication)

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/051601a.html
(Nazis in the US, the Consortium News)

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html
(The Nazi Hydra in America)

aka Joe Kennedy

http://clickit.go2net.com/search?pos=2&ppos=0&plnks=0&u...

real?

You summed up my feelings completely. I wish I was that eloquent.

Hats off to you.

Adolf Hitler in His Own Words:
Cruelty is impressive. Cruelty and brutal strength. The masses want it. They demand it. They need the thrill of terror to make them shudderingly submissive. -Adolf Hitler

The joy of killing brings men together. -Adolf Hitler

When I came to power, I did not want the concentration camps to become old age pensioners homes, but instruments of terror. -Adolf Hitler

Hate, hate, and more hate. There is nothing that sustains you like hate! -Adolf Hitler

My morality is that of the magnificent blond beast, roaming wantonly in seach of prey and victory. -Adolf Hitler

Yes, we are barbarians. We want to be barbarians. It is an honorable title. -Adolf Hitler

We shall not capitulate... no never. We may be destroyed, but if we are, we shall drag a world with us... a world in flames. -Adolf Hitler
HITLER'S DIARIES

Give Bush the power to do whatever he wants and you'll see wars occuring throughout the world. Since Bush will absolutely leave office in 4 years there's no way he can become a 'Hitler' so you are right, they aren't the same because Bush won't have the chance to conquer the world.

want, and leave.

Hitler went in and began exterminating the populace that wasn't Third Reich material.

But he taught valuable lessons, that if Bush follows, might save him from self immolation.

How do you know? Because the Constitution sez? Bwahahahahahahaha!!

Hitler was a world-class mass murderer and unfathomably evil. He conquered huge parts of Europe and planned to conquer the world.

Bush on the other hand is a much more small-scale mass murderer, with only 100K innocent lives under his belt, and he's only conquered one country. He has turned our country into an Orwellian dictatorship, not one as brutal as the nazis had.

He's an evil, disgusting man, though, and he deserves to be compared with killers the likes of Mussolini and Pinochet.

We still have free speech. The constitution hasn't been shredded despite Ashcroft's best attempts. And, of course, you can still think for yourself.

And "free speech" is the way the dictatorship gets away with calling itself "free".

Sure, you're free to shout from the rooftops, but corporate power will continue to control all media and squelch all MEANINGFUL dissent.

Maureen Dowd still writes her anti-Bush columns for the NY Times.

Air America sound familiar?

How about 'Rathergate'? Where was the corporate Media supressing that?

You think Hitler's Germany began the way it ended? Things change in incriments. Changes here, changes there, less freedom here, no free elections, invading country's for their resources, big lies to convince the people of their righteousness. They have to get people used to these changes before they go onto the bigger ones. You know the saying about the vat of oil. You put somebody into it when it's boiling, and it's exruciating. However, you slowly bring it up to a bowl and you become more accustomed to it as the temperature rises.

How many internment camps do you think we have in other countrys? How many people are being held there and tortured? Do we know? Do we care? How many are dying as we speak? Do we care? Or are we slowly becoming used to it? It doesn't really shock us that much anymore. A little information gets leaked out here and there and before you know it, it's no longer that big a deal.

....most clueless Americans think FEMA is just the nice agency that hands out blankets, checks and generators and water after an emergency like a flood or hurricane. Few realize that they have mass authority and property's that are "containment" camps across the country, which now being under the Homeland Security Dept include handling the population in a state of emergency......Picture another 9/11 scenario and they have to detain people for their own good and safety....

At least 90% of what you see and read in corporate media is pro-Bush.

Does that make sense when nearly half the populace is against him (and even more would be if the media were doing their job).


A few dissenting voices drowned out amid the roar of a hundred rightwing pundits is not meaningful. It's manufactured consent exactly as laid out in Chomsky's book.

Where & how?? Protesters are now placed in a "free speech zones", so that the media will not have to include them in the story of what is going on ie. the republican convention & the inauguration. Our views are not allowed to be discussed in the MSM, unless we are met with a "journalist" who marginalizes us from the get-go; these forums are only open to us when they feel as though they have an arena where they can adequately neuter us/and or our views.

On another vein of the same subject, we are just learning about the black-ball list. Some good American soul saw fit to leak a list of persons who were black-balled from an appearance that * was speaking at in Fargo. These were not people who were a danger to *, just simply people who have written letters to the editors of newspapers against the policies of this administration. Oh, but it seems to be more than a simple list, it appears as though there is investigation and dossiers compiled...does this set off ANY red flags to you??

At what point do you begin to connect the dots?

Backing out quietly, but before I go,

no, Bush isn't interested in Hitler's "styles". Bush's are much more obscure, but just as deceitful and malicious.

to them by a citizen as part of a contest for commercial clips. They NEVER used it in any of their ads. That's RW propaganda, please don't spread it here.

And in Bush's America, women and the poor are certainly headed for second-class citizenship. They don't need to construct concentration camps to accomplish this.

And if he is not actively trying to kill Iraqis, then what are we doing there? Serving tea? He may not be actively killing them using Hitler's exact motivations, but his motivation for killing them is just as base: money. He is every bit as monstrous as we declare him to be.



Period.

and Hitler. I told him to visit some progressive websites to find out about Kerry last year. That ad turned him FAR away from Kerry. It took everything I had to recover that.

The women and poor are becoing second class citizens. I won't argue that. But they have a choice. They could have voted for Bush, or voted for Kerry, or not voted at all. They made their choice.

And we're robbing the Iraqis. That's what were doing. The Iraqis who stand up to stop us are the ones getting killed, along with many innocent bystanders. He is a bastard, but not a Hitler.

submission that was deleted as soon as the admins of the site became aware of it.

I have a feeling that guy's father is lying just a little bit.

Bush has presided over the killing of over 100,000 people (so far), and got his 'trifecta' with 9-11. Maybe killing people and invading nations don't rank up there with you, but does killing your own citizens?

It's not just the Bush voters among the women and the poor who will become second-class citizens. It's ALL women and ALL poor. So their poor choice certainly affects me as well. He is on his way to being Hitler, and I frankly don't care who may be horrified by the comparison.

is what your argument is growing.

What a remarkable and splendid coinkydink about your dad! You do remember, I trust, since I am sure you visited Moveon many times yourself, that the infamous Hitler ad was one of hundreds. How amazing that your dad was able to single it out, and be so outraged!

As for what women and the poor did or did not do, that's beside the point. The issue is what Boosh is doing. For all the "Hitler was elected" stuff, the fact is that Hitler got a plurality, not a majority, and was elected because the left split its vote. That the voters might have done something else, does nothing to change the fact that the Boosh administration is dismantling the social safety net, ramping up to a more advanced police state, and waging an illegal, unjustified war.

What in the world does "we're robbing the Iraqis mean?" Hitler was doing exactly what to the Sudentenland and Poland? You might want to check your history about when Hitler started invading other countries and when he instituted the final solution. Apparently, you will be surprised if you do that. Further, your statement that it's the Iraqis who resist who are getting killed (oh! and some innocent bystanders) is fatuous. The Lancet study indicates that huge numbers of innocent bystanders are being killed, but, hey, we don't really know, because the US isn't counting. That, my friend, is the very untermenschen mentality that characterized Nazism and eventually led to the death camps.

At another point in this thread, you maintain that we still have free speech. Been to a protest lately? Free speech in zones is not free speech. Sure, right at the moment we can carp and kvetch on message boards. But there's been a drumbeat ever since the trifecta moment of "don't criticize Dear Leader." And that's growing stronger.

The point of making the comparisons to Germany in the 1930s is that there's a model for a gradual degeneration of an otherwise civilized society under the rule of a nationalistic, bigoted leader.

Saying, "It can't happen here because it hasn't happened yet," is whistling past the graveyard. Read some of the material floating around quoting Germans who talk about the gradual slide into horror, the ones who describe a situation where they kept saying, "Well, that's bad, but surely they'll stop there." Except they didn't stop because nobody stood up and identified the evil until it was too late.

The very best thing for an aspiring despot is to have an anesthetized population ready to say, "He may be a little bad, but he's sure not like <fill in name of even worse despot>."

The Patriot Act is not just some little bother. The invasion of Iraq is not some harmless prank. Gutting social security is not an effort to help out the masses. If you'd like to suggest an better approach to confronting this evil, get right after it.

But there's little point, other than enabling, in wandering about saying, "He's not Hitler yet!"

What a remarkable and splendid coinkydink about your dad! You do remember, I trust, since I am sure you visited Moveon many times yourself, that the infamous Hitler ad was one of hundreds. How amazing that your dad was able to single it out, and be so outraged!

Really? A coinkydink? I'd say that if they put that on their site WITHOUT knowing what it was, as another poster suggested, then why should they be surprised when people trying to inform themselves on the vote visit their site and find ads such as these?

As for what women and the poor did or did not do, that's beside the point. The issue is what Boosh is doing. For all the "Hitler was elected" stuff, the fact is that Hitler got a plurality, not a majority, and was elected because the left split its vote. That the voters might have done something else, does nothing to change the fact that the Boosh administration is dismantling the social safety net, ramping up to a more advanced police state, and waging an illegal, unjustified war

It's not beside the point. They could have voted for Kerry and actually changed how this country is getting screwed, but 40% of Americans decided to watch CSI and Survivor with their pork rinds in hand.

And as for what Bush is doing now, I agree it's very bad. But I don't think we're headed towards a police state when 49% of the vote was AGAINST Bush.

Remember Saddam's last 'election' before we invaded? 100% of the vote went to him. THAT'S a police state. We're just in a republic filled with idiots.

What in the world does "we're robbing the Iraqis mean?" Hitler was doing exactly what to the Sudentenland and Poland? You might want to check your history about when Hitler started invading other countries and when he instituted the final solution. Apparently, you will be surprised if you do that. Further, your statement that it's the Iraqis who resist who are getting killed (oh! and some innocent bystanders) is fatuous. The Lancet study indicates that huge numbers of innocent bystanders are being killed, but, hey, we don't really know, because the US isn't counting. That, my friend, is the very untermenschen mentality that characterized Nazism and eventually led to the death camps.

It means we're in there so we can get THEIR oil to work for US. And what was Hitler doing in those countries like Poland? Gee, why don't we ask Dick Cheney? He was just in POLAND commemorating something? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4210841.stm Hitler invaded those countries to increase his strength and to remove the 'Jewish Problem'.

Why don't YOU go read history? And this time stay away from conspiracy theorist's blogs.

At another point in this thread, you maintain that we still have free speech. Been to a protest lately? Free speech in zones is not free speech. Sure, right at the moment we can carp and kvetch on message boards. But there's been a drumbeat ever since the trifecta moment of "don't criticize Dear Leader." And that's growing stronger.

We do have free speech. I don't agree with free speech zones, but why don't YOU do some research about these zones? Kerry had free speech zones too? It isn't just the Republicans doing this.

The point of making the comparisons to Germany in the 1930s is that there's a model for a gradual degeneration of an otherwise civilized society under the rule of a nationalistic, bigoted leader.

It wasn't gradual. Once Hitler had power, it wasn't a year before he was throwing people in jail for simply rumors of disagreeing wiht him. there are A LOT of differences between the Germany of 1930 and America of 2005.

Saying, "It can't happen here because it hasn't happened yet," is whistling past the graveyard. Read some of the material floating around quoting Germans who talk about the gradual slide into horror, the ones who describe a situation where they kept saying, "Well, that's bad, but surely they'll stop there." Except they didn't stop because nobody stood up and identified the evil until it was too late.

Well, I do kind of agree with you here. We do have to stop Bush from getting involved in ANOTHER war. But we aren't headed on a collision course with despotism.

The very best thing for an aspiring despot is to have an anesthetized population ready to say, "He may be a little bad, but he's sure not like <fill in name of even worse despot>."

And the best thing for a corrupt regime like Bush's is to have legitimate charges of corruption, such as Cheney's Energy Policy meetings, fettered to and weighed down with inane claims of Bush aspiring to surpass Hitler.

The Patriot Act is not just some little bother. The invasion of Iraq is not some harmless prank. Gutting social security is not an effort to help out the masses. If you'd like to suggest an better approach to confronting this evil, get right after it.

I agree with this. My suggestion is start fighting. Light a fire under the Dems' asses. Start protesting Bush wherever he goes. Make ourselves known. And stop making asinine comparisons between Bush and one of history's most brutal and abominable monsters.

election. The ad you are talking about was only viewed by a handful of people on the Move On site. However it was played on CNN and the other networks a lot. That is where you and your father most likely got your info on the ad in question.


But My ad was finalist in that contest check it out.
http://shadowgov.info/video_bushknew.html

And I do think Bush is as dangerous as Hitler.

liked, as I recall. It wasn't a quicksurf exercise to see those submissions--you had to have a vested enough interest to go through the USERID and password drill.

And before the contest closed, MOVEON had removed the commercial in question.

that voted for it. lol.

Excellent points.

about women and the poor. You're assuming that they didn't vote for Kerry, but as we now know, the elections weren't fair. A lot of those people's votes were not counted.

As Randi Rhodes so often states, "People don't stand in line for 8, 9, 10 hours to vote for the same old thing." Speaking as a woman, I believe the poor and women of Ohio, Florida, etc had their votes stolen.

So don't state they voted for this murderer squatting in OUR White House unless you have unequivocal proof that they did.


edit: forgot to check spelling.

That ad was a submission,NOT Move Ons position
Your dad is a dork if he missed this distinction.

that "Contest Submission" for a 30 second commercial of Bush that was submitted by a private citizen (with thousands of others) was only up on the MoveOn site for a few days and your Dad must have been going to that website and checking through every "contest submission" to have found that particular one submitted by a private citizen that compared Bush to Hitler. Funny, because I went to MoveOn's site almost daily and never got to see it and MoveOn had removed it once they had gotten through some of the reviews of submissions. This "clip" never made it to the qualifying rounds for the contest even, yet MoveOn gets credited for not only having "made it" (they didn't) but also for having promoted it (they didn't).

It's more likely that your Dad heard about it on Fox News or CNN and then went to their link and downloaded it....Or maybe he saw it on the official Bush/Cheney site where they did a morphing of it with Al Gore and Kerry on their site.

And by the way - most of the women and poor did vote for Kerry, not Bush...their votes didn't matter, despite what you think.

That is CORRECT, although that was a point drowned out by the Noise Machine. But the Rove-inspired smear artists had NO problem at all in using TV ads in 2002, to link Max Cleland with Bill Laden. (Cleland was a decoratd vet who left 3 out of his 4 limbs in Viet Nam. His "super-patriot" opponent was a Chicken-Hawk. But the NOISE had the last word ... SO FAR.)

pnorman

One of the big problems with Bush is the fact that he has created structures such as the Patriot Act which can be abused, if not by him then by someone later, for creation of an extremely repressive society.

The Patriot Act, if I remember correctly, was to be used ONLY to catch terrorists. Yesterday, they showed footage of Ashcroft stating that they used the Patriot Act to find the woman who cut the baby out of the pregnant woman in Missouri a little while back. While finding the baby was an extremely desirable activity, I have to notice that the killer was neither a terrorist nor foreigner engaged in terrorist activities. They've already jumped over that barrier. What other barriers will they choose or have they already chosen to leap over and for what reasons?

there are many similarities between Hitler and Bush.

And Bush isn't just robbing the US but also other parts of the world.
No imperialistic ambitions? Surely you jest.
No grandiose crusades for Christ? Tell that to the reli fundies.

any two bad leaders, and you'll find some similarities. That doesn't merit the 'Bush=Hitler' attitude we've been seeing around here.

And I don't think Bush has an interest in Imperialist ambitions, at least not American.

His ambitions lie entirely in the business world. America is nothing more than a tool to promote the welfare of his enterprises.

And I think an atheist has more faith in God that Bush. . . Rove just frames it as a crusade to get the fundie vote.

big business wants resources and (cheap) labor.

bush is creating cheap labor in the US as we speak, but there's also a lot of cheap labor elsewhere.

needless to say there's plenty of resources elsewhere.
to get access to those resources, big business needs to have control oevr the regions where the resources are.
that's where imperialism and business interests meet.

or do you believe Bush when he says the war in Iraq is not about oil?

Bush personally probably has no religious faith. But he (his strategists) do know they need all the support from the population they can get, hence the pandering to the reli-fundie base (ask any reli-funci if they think Bush is relgious). So he pretends to be religious; he's a dishonest man - what else is new? Btw this is one of the characteristics of despots in general, that Bush has in common with Hitler: they lie to the population.

Bush invaded to get his friends more money. The US, as far as he is concerned, is to be used until it has been sucked dry of all useful resources (military, money) and left to die. He doesn't want to build the US into an empire. He wants to use the US to increase profits.

All the behind the scenes stuff smacks of setting up shop to run the KKK from the White House. The way Ohio stopped all due process on the election fraud reads like a Dukes of Hazzard episode.

I pray that you are wrong, but I'm afraid Bush will have killed far more than 11 million before he's done, unless we get him and his cronies out of there.

The torture memo everyone was so upset about as it refers to Iraq and Guantanamo is even more chilling when you realize it can be applied to us.

AND remember .... Hitler didn't have nuclear capabilities.

The US already is an empire and the neocons are expanding it - they don't even make a secret of their desire for total US domination of the world. see www.newamericancentury.org
The point of domination is to have control over all sorts of resources, which they use to their own advantage.

Kick it people

I may not be reading it right, but it's loosey goosey enought that I'm reading "martial law" if deemed necessary and Gonzales said recently there could be times when the Pres makes laws that don't have to answer to the checks and balances.

If people know more about this... I don't know maybe it won't seem so bad to me in the morning.

is part of Homeland Security and FEMA already has these powers, so not sure why they are doing this.

(which aren't really subtle at all) of his antics. He sends advance teams wherever he travels to muffle dissent. His misadministration pays propogandists and issues it prolifically to cover up his crimes against humanity--both here in America and abroad. He withholds information from the public, revises historical documents to make himself appear to be something other than he is.

And you have the gall to compare Kerry's use of free speech pens to Bush's? How is it that you leave out the fact that as part of our current police state, the DNC and RNC "security" were orchestrated by one and the same group--straight out of Bushco and Kerry got the treatment just so people like you could use that lame comparison. This is not the memory hole that you think it is.

Furthermore, your statement that comparing any two bad leaders will lead to similarities is misleading. Ever heard of degrees of truth? While two leaders may be "bad" it can be for varying reasons that they are bad and the similarities often end there. On the other hand, Bush has done a myriad of things that are unmistakably comparable to Hitler. The more able we are to compare the two, the truer it becomes that they are alike. You want to stop the comparisons because the mass killings of Bush aren't on American soil. That is not relevant since Bush believes he is responsible for the world, he has no boundaries. Hitler wanted world dominance too. He never got it and neither will Bush.

And the chimp is not going after the Iraqis, he's going after US!!!

But of course he's not Hitler. He's an evil entity in his own right.

Let's just hope there's no Article 48 in our future. That'll be the time to sell off and run like hell.

He's not Hitler, he's not as evil as Hitler.

Power is not the same as money, but money is a large part of the pursuit of power.

If you've ever been around sickening wealth you will know that money is simply an addiction, just like torture is an addiction. The real disease in people like Bush is the need to inflict pain. It relates to their inability to fill a critical void in their soul. They have no empathy. They would use any and every symbol of grace and honor and defile it in service of their objectives.

No sir, you are mistaken. The only difference between Hitler and Bush is the context of their environment. Nazism is a long-running thread in the Bush family. Yeah, some peolpe bemoan the fact that I hold the sons accountable for the deeds of their fathers. Very legitimate concern. In fact, if George W. Bush had gone into the peace corps and devoted his life to helping the residents of a leper colony, then yes, I would be mistaken in holding him accountable. Compare that with Ron Reagan; oh how well he has distanced himself from the politics of his father. The reason? It wasn't genetic with the Reagans. He was a regular guy. That's the reason he was genuinely popular.

Now Mr. Bush, he has at his disposal the most advanced forms of destruction ever known to un-natural world. So you might ask, why wouldn't he just kill off everyone he wants, right? WRONG. He's a brilliant man and he knows very well that the world is like the milky skinned teenage girl at the bottom of the well. She is there to provide him with his depraved pleasures. Killing her would be no fun, until it was necessary.

Honey, you're just wrong.

George's only deviation would be that he's sure his bunch of fascists really will have a 1000 year empire.

Just because he substitutes Muslims for Jews doesn't make him different. (And any Jew who thinks we're safe because a different group is being scapegoated? Can we talk STUPID?) He wants what's theirs. He wants them compliant or dead.

A fascist is a fascist is a fascist. Hitler is one of the famous ones and he was in charge. Who DO you think George would emulate?

My grandmother's family would have preferred to pass on being murdered by Hitler's ambitions, but, oh well. IT DOES NOT DISHONOR THEM TO POINT OUT WHEN SOME POWER-HUNGRY SON OF A BITCH IS STARTING THE WHOLE DAMN THING UP AGAIN.

It DOES dishonor them to pretend their murders were some one-off special, never to be seen again.

It has been repeated so many times over the years that sometimes we forget its meaning: "We shall never forget them." The _reason_ we must not forget the Holocaust, is to recognize the next one and stop it. If we fail to do so, we dishonor the memory of the millions who died.

i don't think anything bothers me more than that comparison, and i'm as liberal as it gets

very well said

a pompous, petty tyrant that started wars and invaded defenseless 3rd world countries ethiopia, and still amost got his ass kicked by them.

but make no mistake, this country is on the march toward fascism, and like 1930's germany and italy, the populace is way too happy to swallow the propoganda shovled their way...