The Myth Of Al Qaeda

[RBHam]

When George W Bush spoke before Congress after 9-11, and officially blamed a shadowy, nebulous terrorist organization called Al Qaeda for 9-11 - he was using information that was basically concocted by Western intel agencies all in on the game of setting up a fake terror threat that we could all rally behind. "Al Qaeda" is actually a division of the Western intel agencies that perpetrates their terrorist bombings in co-ordination with the New World Order operatives in the Black Ops world. "Al Qaeda" is a political convenience for the Fascist fiends now consolidating power in every major political party in the West, save an enlightened few (The US Greens, the Canadian NDP). Every overt act that this Black Ops spin off perpetrates benefits the Fascist war mongers. Indeed, if Al Qaeda didn't exist, the Fascists would have to invent it. Which, of course, they did.

How to destroy Al Qaeda? Open up the records of the Western Intel agencies, not just the crap they spew out to manipulate an ever more cowed and terrified citizenry, but all of their historic dealings dating back to when the CIA and others first founded and financed the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan. Make it known to the people who live in Islamic countries that Osama bin Laden is nothing more than an incredibly valuable CIA asset, which many Muslims already suspect (remember the anti-Osama bin Laden rallies in 2001? They held up a picture of bin Laden paired with the Sesame Street puppet Bert - the message? These people knew that bin Laden is/was an American puppet).

Y'all have to wake up. This so called "War On Terror" is nothing more than an Orwellian ploy to gradually condition citizens in the West to accept a police state and complete authoritarian control.
It is so obvious, its painful. But the neo-con Fascists know their demographics well. They know that years of anti-Muslim propaganda has taken root in the psyches of the average Westerner, and the fact that these Muslims are brown skinned, dress differently and have an unfamiliar belief system makes it easy for the neo-cons to use racism and bigotry as tools to sow the myth deeply into the culture of the West.

Yes, there are legitimate Muslim-led terrorist groups out there. But they are spread far and wide, are nationalistic, and are easily infiltrated by the agents provocateurs of "Al Qaeda" to lead them down the path of destruction and mayhem. These local groups are used and then discarded after the deed, and the terrorists the authorities then round up are usually clueless, brainwashed, local criminals who are effectively cut off from the true leadership of "Al Qaeda".

The truth is out there. It can be found. And the truth of the Myth Of Al Qaeda MUST be disseminated before its too late. With the anti-Americanism that Bushco has worked so hard to promote in the middle east, it won't be long before we have a conflagration in that region of the world. Which is exactly what the Fascists want - they can then move in and secure the oil interests while claiming their just fighting the "War On Terror". They can also help set up civil wars between warring Islamic factions (e.g. Sunnis vs. Shiites in Iraq) and then sell weapons to both sides. This is the Hegelian Dialectic. The oldest trick in the book.

When you think Al Qaeda, you should also think CIA and MI5.
Then you'll start to get it. Think about all those convenient terrorist attacks that continued to bolster the neo-con plans for world domination. Exactly when will you finally realize that nothing happens by accident in politics. There are no coincidences.

For the Love of our Western Democratic values, please research the following sites thoroughly.

http://www.geocities.com/revolution4u2000/noalqaeda.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0523/p11s02-coop.html
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000006DFED.htm
http://161.58.193.170/pubs/view/chw_004_035_001.htm
http://www.livejournal.com/users/amp23/476950.html
http://theunjustmedia.com/Al-Qaeda/Homepage%20of%20Al-Qaeda.htm
http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/05-government/H-war/03-terrorism-war/2003/05H3-12-17-03-does-al-qaeda-exist.html
http://globalresearch.ca/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO301B.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/archives/ARC308.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI303A.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI211A.html

[wysimdnwyg]

1. Um

:tinfoilhat:

[RBHam]

3. Good comeback

Obviously born yesterday

[DuctapeFatwa]

28. As you put your butane lighter back in your pocket and get on the plane

What right-thinking American isn't concerned about Terror in the Skies?

[RBHam]

35. One man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

Love your blog ductape!

Do you ever ponder how Ronald Reagan's freedon fighterts morphed into George W Bush's evildoers?

[pnziii]

2. Quote from General Franks

General Franks said the following.
"If another terrorist attack happens on American soil the people of the US would accept Martial Law and a military government"

That's as scary as they come.

[outinforce]

60. Which is More Scary.......??

"General Franks said the following.
"If another terrorist attack happens on American soil the people of the US would accept Martial Law and a military government"

That's as scary as they come."

Which is more scary ----

The thought the General Franks may be correct in his estimation of the USAmerican populace's view toward surrending our freedom for "safety"?

or

The apparent willingness of our Government to meet the supposed desire of the American population for "safety"??

[pnziii]

80. Both

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. Once in a while a post on here makes me want to stand up and cheer

This is one. Let's keep it kicked.

[JohnLocke]

7. Says a lot about the stance of some on the I/P issue, eh?

[radwriter0555]

24. When the BUSH WH tells ME & YOU what to be SKEERED of

I'm smart enough to start laughing my ASS off at them.


Since when has the bush white house been right, OR told the truth?

And these fools BELIEVE there is an al queda because BUSH told them there is?

They're the ones who need to step back and check the veracity of the bullshit they're being fed.

I've said since 9/11 that al queda is a MYTH and doesn't exist.

[Zhade]

45. Indeed.

By the way, you have probably the coolest screen name I've ever seen.

[radwriter0555]

94. "FBI: Just 200 hard-core Al-Qaeda" from July 27, 2002

Those of you who wish to disparage those of us who KNOW what's going on? Read this: I saved this from 1.5 years ago....

http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/saturday/news_d324f12b6139910500ad.html


By Rebecca Carr, Palm Beach Post Washington Bureau
Saturday, July 27, 2002


WASHINGTON -- Senior FBI officials believe there are now no more than 200 hard-core Al-Qaeda members worldwide.

"Al-Qaeda itself, we know, is less than 200," said an FBI official, referring to those who have sworn allegiance to Osama bin Laden, the alleged mastermind behind the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

That figure -- far fewer than recent press reports have suggested are in the U. S. alone -- is based on evidence gathered by the FBI and CIA. It includes Al-Qaeda members who are now in custody at Guantanamo Bay.

"Everyone tries to tie everything into 9-11 and Al-Qaeda," said one of the two FBI officials interviewed Friday on condition of anonymity. "There was a recent report suggesting that Al-Qaeda is about 5,000 strong. It is nowhere near 5,000 strong."

Although thousands of Islamic extremists and future terrorists have passed through bin Laden's training camps, it does not mean they are actual Al-Qaeda operatives, the officials said.

The war in Afghanistan has dispersed, killed or captured Al-Qaeda leaders, leaving the terror network fractured and diffused.

As a result, the FBI's counterterrorism division is closely examining Iranian-backed Hezbollah and other radical Shiite Islamic groups. These groups have men, money and safe havens to elude authorities and could strengthen Al-Qaeda.

"Now we are concerned that he (bin Laden) might be reaching out to the Shia side, which we have never seen before," a senior FBI official said. "We are concerned they might start focusing on trying to utilize each other's support networks."

Sunni and Shia Muslims have long been rivals. Historically, an ideological division between the two branches has kept Al-Qaeda and Shiite groups such as Hezbollah from combining resources.

The FBI has launched a new International Terrorism Operations Center within the counterterrorism division in an effort to keep better track of terror groups outside of Al-Qaeda.

"If we don't keep our focus on Hezbollah, Iran, Iraq, Hamas, the Shia side of the house, we are putting ourselves in a very deep hole because if they decide to join the fray with Al-Qaeda, with the Sunni side, Sunni extremists, this country is in very serious trouble," the senior FBI official said.

Although Al-Qaeda's forces have been reduced, the FBI is concerned that there are still a number of mid-level followers who could strike at the United States.

"There are people out there at mid-level that have come up in previous terrorist acts that we are focusing on that are the operators that could still conduct various terrorist attacks in the United States," one official said.

Some of these mid-level operators concern the FBI more than others. Some planned the 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Some planned the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000. Some planned the Sept. 11 attacks.

"We believe there is a functional arm out there that we're still extremely concerned about that we are aggressively with the agency (CIA) going after," the official said.

Asked about recent comments of another FBI official suggesting that bin Laden might be dead, the officials said there is information that would substantiate that claim.

"There is some information out there that somebody could take a look at and come up with a theory that he might be dead," one official said.

For example, U.S. forces have captured members of bin Laden's senior security detail. If bin Laden were alive, wouldn't his security detail be by his side?

If bin Laden is alive, why has he not made an appearance or produced another videotape, an official asked. The tapes that have been released so far are dated before the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan.

"It's curious that you would think that he would want to demonstrate to us all worldwide that he was still in charge, still alive," the official said.

The FBI officials also said the bureau has created a plan to "substantially enhance our ability to detect, investigate and prevent terrorist attacks."

The plan, which was revealed to members of the House and Senate intelligence committees in a closed-door session on Thursday, calls for dramatically improving the bureau's analytical capabilities.

The goal is to ensure that FBI information on terrorist threats rapidly moves from the bureau's 56 field offices to the counterterrorism division at headquarters in Washington.

A new group of FBI "report officers" will take raw intelligence and information from the field and put it into a format that can be sent to local, state and federal agencies trying to prevent the next terrorist attack.

A senior CIA official is training FBI agents to create these reports.


[email protected]

[Karenina]

123. But it's a useful designation

Here we go again, kids. Fasten your seatbelts!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=334852

[hang a left]

112. Here Freakin Here!!!!!!

"Today Americans would be outraged if U. N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government." - Henry Kissinger, in an address to the Bilderberg meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.


Wake Up!

[Wonco_the_Sane]

5. DU needs "tinfoil hat" message board!!

:)

:)

:)

I will defend to the death, your right to be a goofball. More power to ya!

[PsychoDad]

15. Today's Tin Foil Idea...

Sometimes is proven right.
Consider something like Operation Northwoods. Before the docs were declassified, a lot would have called it Tin foil material....

[info being]

55. Right...where all the non-brainwashed people can hang-out

Great idea.

[lovedems]

6. I have heard repeatedly that the biggest lie this administration

has told the American people is that terrorist hate us because of our freedoms.

So many people want to gag on that statement! They hate us because we support Isreal (who the middle east thinks are terrorists) and they don't like our presence in Saudi Arabia. Hence, and in simple terms, it is geo-political AND NOT because we are "freedom loving people". If the American public knew the reasons we were "hated", they would demand some debate on solutions to the problems. However, since we are being spoon fed that it is because of our freedom, then that leaves no solution except to endure our loss of liberties as a sacrifice of war.

I heard the former Ambassador to Iraq give a speech and he said that "one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter". I am not showing sympathy to terrorists, it is all about perception and how our perception in the rest of the world could continue to cost us. It will cost us unless we are told the truth about the true reasons terrorists hate us.

BTW, The former Ambassador pointed out that Arafat was duly elected by a democratic process and the US refuses to consider him a leader. He questions what would happen in Iraq if there were elections and SOMEONE THE ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T LIKE won. He thinks it is highly dangerous to self appointment governments around the world in the name of democracy.

[bryant69]

8. I take it you are trying to get on the Rush Limbaugh Show?

I don't blame you. I mean now that he's reading out posts on his show, the temptation to get on national radio must be overwhelming.

And of course he's only going to read out your post if you make sure it totally lacks credibility, and makes Democrats look like paranoid delusionals. This certainly qualifies. So who knows, maybe today is your day.

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[dpibel]

96. Help me find your degree of certitude

Obviously, you have some really strong evidence that Al Qaeda exists in pretty much the form its being sold to the American public (i.e., a vast, shadowy, powerful, conspiratorial network of crazed Islamic terrorists).

Would you be so kind as to direct me to some evidence of that which does not come from administration sources or their media mouthpieces?

Thanks in advance.

[san antonio]

98. lol

"Would you be so kind as to direct me to some evidence of that which does not come from administration sources or their media mouthpieces?"

Translated...

"I don't believe anything that doesn't come from a conspiracy theorist who has an agenda to push. Gosh darn it, I want to believe this so I'm going to ignore 99% of the sources in the world because they don't agree with me."

[dpibel]

99. Oh, ouchie

Lemme see now.

Of course you are free to disagree, but many of us believe that the Bushies told a multitude of lies to flog folk into supporting their invasion of Iraq. Tinfoil or truth?

The Bushies lied about the source of the California energy crisis. True or tin?

The Bushies lied about their intentions as to the Social Security trust fund ("I gotta lock box, too!!"). Fact or foil?

No Child Left Behind is a pack of lies. Actual or Alcoa?

There's no shortage of lists of Bush lies, and they tend to run pretty long.

For all I know, you may believe that the Bush regime is pretty much a font of true, straight, and righteous information. I'd love to hear about that.

But if you accept that the Bush regime is founded on lies, and uses lies as policy tools, and is not in the least embarrassed about lying, how is it that, on this one particular issue, they're telling the gawd's own truth, and anyone who doubts it is a crazed conspiracy theorist.

Sort this out for me, woncha?

[san antonio]

103. bush Isn't the Only Source

Since when is the bush admin the only source claiming AQ exists? Or are you claiming all of the media in every nation around the world is controlled by bushie?

[hang a left]

114. No one said they didn't exist, they just blew their cover....

that's all.

[bryant69]

118. I'm not going to do your homework for you

But like others have said, all the stuff i could bring forward you'd deny. Particuarly if I'm not allowed to use either government or media sources.

[Solomon]

9. Finally. Someone else who knows what I know.

We created Al Qaeda. One thing that has always bothered me is this. Further terrorist attacks on US soil do not have to rival 9-11. Just a restaurant bombing or two would send this country in absolute panic. But it hasn't happened. Why? It's one of the simplest forms of terrorism, doesn't take the resources or planning of a 9-11, and could be carried out on a moment's notice. This more than anything is a clue that AlQaeda is a myth (or was a myth). The american public has been conditioned to believe that they only attack big style once every ten years or so. If they were real, would they overlook the extreme havoc they could cause this country by very simple terrorist acts? I don't think so. I think all of it, all of it, was made up, including the 9-11 debacle.

Can you imagine how bad they could have screwed us by continuing little things after 9-11? Our economy was teetering, but they gave us time to recover. Why?

And I don't care how many of you tell me to put on a tinfoil hat.

[DuctapeFatwa]

16. The "tinfoil hat" meme has gotten to where it is downright suspicious

when applied to plain old facts about government activities.

I have heard people call PNAC a "tinfoil hat conspiracy theory," despite the fact that it is a publicly available document signed by the entire bush regime A-list.

It is hard not to wonder what is the real motivation of those who burn with such zeal to dismiss anyone who presents not theories, not wild speculations, but facts. Demonstrable, documented, unclassified, public record facts.

One does not see the same assiduousness and concerted effort when the topic is alien abductions or chemtrails or microscopic brainchips implanted in nano-second by microscopic guns hidden in the cardswiper at the Wal-Mart.

[Solomon]

20. I proudly wear my tinfoiln hat as a

badge of honor. I think people are so vociferous in their condemnation of connecting the dots because it challenges the world view they have invested so heavily in. They are afraid. It's safer to believe in the good ole gummit.

[Jose Diablo]

23. My wife made me a tinfoil hat

She made it by sewing a piece of aluminum foil between 2 pieces of cloth, with an elastic band. Even has a button on top. I am wearing it now.

I am definitely MIHOP. It really concerns me not 1 iota what others think.

That 9-11 was just too handy to allow PNAC's agenda to be bought by the American people.

[Solomon]

25. Im so jealous I'm going to show my wife your

post. I want a real tin foil hat too! In fact, maybe some of us can draw attention by actually wearing them about. When people ask why we are wearing 'em, we can unload four years worth of frustration on 'em. Ha Ha! :evilgrin:

[NoKingGeorge]

30. Does this mean you do not know that Al Queda was

designed and funded by the intelligence agencies of the West. Please research. Does this mean you beleive that someone who could barely fly a cessna could dive a 757 from 4,000 feet ,in two minutes, with a 210 degree bank and then hold level at 12 feet off the ground? (Pentagon attack). Hard to beleive...

[Solomon]

38. No No. You miss my point. I'm a MIHOP guy.

I don't care if people tell me to wear a tinfoil hat. I'll proudly wear it. You took my posts the wrong way. Don't even get me started on all the reasons why it was MIHOP, it would take a book.

[NoKingGeorge]

54. I apologize. Your posts have been very informative. nt

[Jose Diablo]

39. Yes, that is some fancy flying

Its not easy to make a coordinated descending turn, believe me.

To maintain a constant speed during descent requires a lot of actual flying experience, even in a Cessna. Now throw-in a coordinated turn keeping the ball in the center and make the plane a 757.

I don't see how someone with only flight simulator training experience could do it first time out.

But hey, I am a guy that wears a tinfoil hat, with drool hanging on my chin. Right?

[reprehensor]

46. Does the tinfoil hat work?

That's the question of the day.

[Jose Diablo]

47. My brain has stopped melting

:D

[Jose Diablo]

50. Actually, thinking about it

It requires a tinfoil hat to believe the 'official' explanation of what happened on 9-11.

[Solomon]

58. Exactly. Jellybean. I still can't believe that so many can

fall for such crap. I think they have tinfoil glasses on.

[info being]

72. No, a Tinfoil Blindfold...as in

"I'd rather have a tinfoil hat than a tinfoil blindfold."

[0007]

119. I would hope that this fact is brought out in the 911 investigation...

or whitewash of the 911 -

[info being]

71. You're not alone :)

[hang a left]

115. Or they are here at DU for a reason.

To shut down and shun away others from conversation that needs to be engaged in.

[mmm]

21. You are exactly correct

the proof is in the pudding. If there actually were terrorists
there would be continual... terrorism. And there is none.
While there are plenty of would-be terrorists with sufficient education and facility to whip up a dynamo of destruction--
any Chemist or Biologist worth their salt --terrorism need not be high-tech or complex in design to be deadly.
Terrorists need not even die or get caught in the commission of the act.
Are these guys on holiday, or what? No, of course not.
These guys only go to work when called to force by GW Bush.
(Actually, I would expect he will be placing an order pretty soon now.)

[info being]

59. Be carefull...if too many of us figure this out they'll have to...

orchestrate another incident.

[Solomon]

67. Ah they're not worried about us. We're the

nuts. Why would anyone take us seriously? We don't count.

[Astarho]

104. Very true

The american public has been conditioned to believe that they only attack big style once every ten years or so. If they were real, would they overlook the extreme havoc they could cause this country by very simple terrorist acts? I don't think so. I think all of it, all of it, was made up, including the 9-11 debacle.

All they do is make videos threatening us rather than actually doing anything to create terror.

[reprehensor]

10. Whoa there!

"They held up a picture of bin Laden paired with the Sesame Street puppet Bert - the message? These people knew that bin Laden is/was an American puppet)."

Although that is the meta-message, that was an accident. The Bert-is-Evil website, which used to have the graphic you mention, posted the graphic online for free.

It was downloaded globally, and printed off by people who were in on the joke, and obviously, people who weren't.

Sorry, gotta call you on that one.

Do you believe Chossoudovsky's assertion that Al Qaeda is a CIA creation and remains an asset? Do any other serious researchers into 911 believe that specific claim?

[RBHam]

13. Chossoduvsky's connected the CIA-ISA-KLA axis of provacation

That's who "Al Qaeda" is - an extension of the New World Order's Black Ops program.

Osama bin Laden used to be in the CIA. He travelled throught ther US, as a guest of the American Government, and met with high ranking military officials. He used the name Tim Osman.

You know what they say. Once CIA, always CIA.

http://www.orlingrabbe.com/binladin_timosman.htm

[reprehensor]

17. Thanks.

[reprehensor]

18. CIA.

"You know what they say. Once CIA, always CIA."

Then is it safe to trust Ray McGovern? He really seems honest to me. What is your opinion?

[RBHam]

22. Depends, actually.

They say there's only one way out of the CIA - in a pine box.

But, there have been cases of high profile CIA whistleblowers being left alone, as long as the media downplays their stories.

Yes, I trust McGovern when it comes to his criticism of Bush and the Iraq War. But I'd like to know where he stands on the War Of Terror and the links between the CIA, the Mujahadeen, the Pakistani ISI, the Taliban and the now infamous "Al Qaeda"...

[mmm]

11. "We were attacked by our government on 9/11/01"

Excellent Excellent post. This ties up all those lose ends
and puts all the ducks in a row.

[lovedems]

12. RBHam,

I posted this link yesterday, but you should consider reading it. This is from the Former Iraqi Ambassador, Edward Peck. He has lived alot of his adult life in the Middle East and knows the region.

When I saw him talk on PBS, he came out and said "the pResident is a liar". He quickly corrected himself and said he is misleading. It is more about Iraq then the "war on terror" which I think are 2 seperate wars, but it good nonetheless.

snip
Let me back away for three steps—can you honestly accept as a thinking, rational human being that there are people out there who are prepared to kill and die because we have freedoms? What a ridiculous concept. Somebody is going to blow themselves up and kill a lot of people because we are capable of screwing up elections in Florida and California? Or because Brittany Spears has a belly button? Nobody is going to kill and die for that. A lot of people may resent our successes, or our excesses, but they’re not going to kill and die for that. Some of them, thank God it’s a small number, are prepared to consider killing and dying because they see their people being killed and dying because of us. That’s their perception—indirectly because of our support for Israel and its 37 years of suppression of the Palestinian people, and directly in Iraq where for 12 years we imposed the embargo and flew over and bombed and now we’ve occupied the country and they don’t like that. That doesn’t make them right. But it’s not a question of right or wrong. But their perception is that we’re doing nasty, miserable things to their people and some of them are going to try to even the score and this is kind of tough stuff to think about because there are ways you could do it better. Maybe.

http://www.lawac.org/speech/peck%202003.htm

[PsychoDad]

14. Wasn't there a Brit PM

Who claimed the Al-Q was as fictional as WMD?

[DrWeird]

19. No. No. No.

For the last time, it's chemtrails.

God, how many times do I have to keep telling people that?

[Solomon]

26. The chemtrails are leading us to

mars and the moon. They've got to be somewhere in the solar system.

[RBHam]

27. You are insulting an award winning journalist...

http://www.willthomas.net/

After concerned citizens in Campbell River, BC, raised enpough of a stink, they finally got the Canadian defence minister to acknowledge that the chem-trail phenomenon is real, but that they are not at liberty to tell us what's going on.

They even admitted that it's a top secret joint Canadian-American military operation, and we Canadians are nothing if not co-operative with the American military.

http://www.willthomas.net/invest/investsky.htm

By the way, I'm a truck driver and I've seen these unmarked military transports laying down these chem trails. They fill up the horizon with a checkerboard pattern and these trails slowly dissipate into a clouds and then slowly drift earthward. They are not normal contrails, which are ice particles formed off the metallic wings of fast flying jets and dissipate within minutes. These chem trails last for hours and hours. Besides, I've personally seen two planes laying down these trails pass within 100 meters of ech other as they "cross the T" - and everyone knows commercial airlines NEVER fly that close to each other.

I have no answers to this bizarre military operation. There has been speculation about it being a way to try and reverse global warming,
or about a population control program to spread viruses to cull out the weak, old and infirmed, or something to do with electo-magnetic experiments carried out in conjunction with the HAARP project in Alaska...

But I really don't know why. But I do know they exist.

My momma didn't raise no dummies - and the Chemtrail phenomenon is real, because I DO believe my own eyes.

[Minstrel Boy]

29. CIA, ISI and al Qaeda

It's a dirty little triangle.

For decades the CIA's covert arm in Central Asia has been Pakistani intelligence. It was the ISI which nurtured al Qaeda on behalf of the US.

In the Fall of 2001 it was learned that Mahmood Ahmed, head of Pakistani ISI, had authorized a $100,000 payment to Mohammed Atta. Ahmed, coincidentally, had been in Washington for a week of meetings with senior US Intelligence officials at the time of the attacks. Ahmed resigns, but has since landed a job as the head of Fauji Fertilizer, a huge business run by ex-army men. Do US officials even question him? It would seem not. The story vanishes.

None of al Qaeda's alledgedly captured "masterminds" have been produced for the public, or even for foreign agencies who wish to question them. The US refuses to allow them to testify as witnesses in 9/11 court cases, even if that means the cases are thrown out. And all of them have demonstrable links to the ISI, suggesting they were double agents. (Much evidence to support this can be found at http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/index2.html. And the book "Who Killed Daniel Pearl?" has a lot to say about the ISI's relationship with al Qaeda, and its complicity in Pearl's murder.

And let's not forget Michael Shipman, who complained himself out of a 20-year job in the State Department before 9/11, when he objected to the CIA's using the Jeddah visa bureau to approve the entry of al Qaeda operatives into the United States. Fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers entered the US through Jeddah.

Create the crisis, then provide the "solution" the crisis was triggered to enable. There's no great mystery here.

[Minstrel Boy]

65. That should be Michael Springman, not Shipman n/t

[Old and In the Way]

31. 16 ga, aluminum plate hat here RBHam

Who are the only 2 groups benefiting on the "War on Terror"?
The RNC and Al Qaeda. A mutually, co-enabling dysfunctional couple here....they fight like hell, but one couldn't survive without the other.

Certainly no one can doubt our CIA under Reagan/Bush created the Islamic resistance to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, just like that administration gave Hussein the financial aid and Chemical/Biological building blocks to fight Iran.

And, if you don't believe me that this adminstration does want to kill Al Qaeda (otherwise, how can you justify a $400BB/year Defense budget if there are no enemies?), read this rather odd accounting as to how we seemed to do everything we could to help get the AQ out of Afghanistan before doing the bombing groundwork for the pipeline-

"Escape From Afganistan" www.cooperativeresearch.org

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RBHam]

33. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was insane.

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.".

-FDR, insane President

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[info being]

63. If you don't see that you are being PLAYED by...

our government and rich and powerful who control them...you will in time. The seed has been planted and it won't be long before you see through the lies.

[Honesthumanbeing]

64. What the hell do you know about me?

How do you know I'm being played by the government? What the hell does that even mean? All I said was that it's unreasonable to think that everything in politics is intentional. That point is seperate from any specific theory someone might have about the government and what its intentions are.
This is the first time I've been told I'm brainwashed before actually stating an opinion.

[info being]

69. Your opinion is that the post "is insane"

You see things through the lense of our media...as that is the same way they discredit "unapproved ideas." Like I said, in time...

[info being]

74. I don't agree with deleting this posters message...

His / her reaction is natural when someone has never been exposed to these kinds of ideas. We can handle it.

[Solomon]

75. I agree. At the risk of getting a warning, I think it's getting a little

stifling around here lately. Loosen up a little please.

[Honesthumanbeing]

78. No actually

My comment, which I probably should not repeat because apparently it is not acceptable here, did not say that--if it had said that, rather than what it did say, it probably wouldn't have been removed.
I don't see how you know so much about how I see things without having any experience with how I see things. If you think I trust the media and believe everything they say, you are wrong. On the other hand, I'm not inclined to trust every conspiracy theory rant that gets posted on a message board. These sort of people have agendas too (you should look out for those even if their conclusions support your worldview), and I'm not for one second going to ignore the twisted logic that comes from that.

[info being]

82. I was wrong to use language that suggests I understand you..

because, like you said, I don't know you and have no right to judge. It is wrong to put people in a box and I apologize.

[Solomon]

36. So what if some accidents do happen in politics?

What's your take on Al Qaeda? Was this an accident in your world view? Tell us if your "world view" is the same as our government's view. Get down and dirty with the issue at hand, not with abstract propositions. Just what the heck are you saying here, hunh?

Oh. I'm sorry on edit I see that your "world view" is the same as the government's since you call RB insane. Nevermind.

[Honesthumanbeing]

43. What?

You've infered that since I disagree with being a blatent conspiracy theorist, I support whatever your conception of "the government's view" is.

[Zhade]

53. You are willfully blind to the facts.

Try reading the relevant material. If you still don't agree - read it again.

[info being]

62. I would modify the statement slightly...

"99% of what happens in politics is not an accident. With the other 1%...somehow the people manage to get their way."

Just take the example of the Florida 2000 election. It was planned so well:

- Rig the election in favor of Bush
- Blame the troubles on punch-card ballots
- Use this as a justification for electronic voting, which is the end of free and fair elections.

You see these patterns everywhere. I'd highly recommend a book called "Rule by Secrecy" by Jim Marr. There are endless examples of this...and it also explains the "Hegelian" idea reference above.

[Loonman]

34. Twaddle

:tinfoilhat:

[Terwilliger]

37. oooo, what a substantive retort!

:eyes:

[Solomon]

40. Hey T!

Our most famous wit. :hi:

[Terwilliger]

42. well...

your most famous NIT-wit...but I'll take what I can :freak:

[undergroundpanther]

48. Tin foil hat?

Hey,I was at my local super fresh and I found this HOLOGRAPHIC tin foil,seriously, it is Reynolds wrap with a holographic design and it's functional tin foil too,it can go in the oven and everything and not lose the pretty colors. It's the coolest stuff..so, if you are going to wear a Tinfoil hat anyways why not make it a glittery pretty Tin foil hat!
Onto alqueda.
I feel they were "manufactured" too. I think the bush coup has been in the works for a long time.The 60's scared the shit out of some of these 'reactionary'people. It's the reactionaries who are the bullies,greedy elitists and some truly think the poor or different people than they are their sheep born to follow them to be herded,sheared,and slaughtered.And they can do it with honey or vinegar as long as they get the wealth and the obedience and control over people. I say FUCK all of the rich,fuck all of the career politicians they are a bunch of thieves,I don't trust ANYONE ,like a politician on TV I cannot talk to when I have problem with the way they behave.

I think all people would be better off without resorting to leaders.If people are too scared to do that,than maybe I think our society is too big,it gives power to much space away from people's scrutiny,civilization needs to be broken into manageable groups where those who would be leaders are held accountable because they must live close to the people they allegedly govern.

Only if people can begin to heal their psychological wounds and illnesses, and learn how to become mature, and develop enough of a sense of empathy for others who suffer as they do,and an develop enough consciences and personal responsibility about how we all are in these situations in the society we all participate in together..Than I think a society might work without'leaders'.

I know folks need to be more emotionally capable of relating to each other and develop this ability soon,and start negotiating,and decide to not bully and tear each other apart to dominate others they don't agree with,like or understand.There needs to be solidarity if people wanna try to live together in peace without corrupt politics and 'leaders' telling them who they are,what to think and how to live..they gotta work at their own freedom..and do it soon because apparently the corrupted leaders we have now are destroying and hurting everything in our name and this will not stop until the people of America have a change of heart and grow some balls and stand up for what is right instead of what is pragmatic,expedient or easy..

[Zhade]

56. Amen, UP.

BTW, are you the same who has written for Unknown News?

[undergroundpanther]

106. Yep!

I be the same old feline pawing around here that you see on unknown...
Merf!
My wramblings might not always make "sense" to the general public *yet*..So guess I ain't ready for prime time..but hey,you can always hope..and keep up the good fight for a change of heart, and damn those torpedoes. Who might you be,hun?
Purrs to you!
Underground Panther in the Sky

[hang a left]

117. A little too late for this world.....

But we will try in the next.

[VOX]

41. Tend to agree. Al Qaeda makes the "perfect" enemy for perpetual warfare..

It has no country per se, no fixed set of faces, no broad ideology (other than the fabricated "they hate our freedom").

Al Qaeda is the "perfect" expedient enemy for a fascist regime bent upon waging a perpetual warefare of policital need and convenience.

The enemy is here; the enemy is there, the enemy is wherever he is needed to be. Al Qaeda did this, Al Qaeda did that. It's like smoke -- it's not really there.

However, from a strictly pragmatic perspective, because of the way the U.S. has behaved so agressively in world matters, there are no doubt many individuals out there who would like to see us taken down.

[GringoTex]

49. This thread is a DU senior members practical joke

The only users claiming they agree with this have 1000+ posts.

[Jose Diablo]

51. Hmm, I don't have a 1000 posts

and I agree with the basic premise here. That elements of the US government made it happen on purpose.

[GringoTex]

52. *wink wink nudge nudge*

Say no more, say no more!

[RapidCreek]

110. Well I am curious...aside from claims of

..."because it wouldn't be nice" or "that's just crazy" what exactly do you find to be incredible about the post which began this thread? You know, keeping in mind the documented CIA operations in in Nicaragua, Iran and Afghanistan and the complicity of many of Bush's senior staff and confidants in all.

Here's betting you don't write a word.

RC

[Honesthumanbeing]

66. I think that this

Is more likely evidence of what prolonged exposure to this place does to a person's reasoning ability.

[GringoTex]

70. I guess there's just so many times you can post about

lack of healthcare for children before growing bored and moving on to more exciting prospects.

[info being]

77. Haha. Yes, root causes are more interesting than...

describing and complaining about symptoms constantly.

[Jose Diablo]

73. Well you walk in so you know where the door is n/t

[Solomon]

76. Stick around a while and get corrupted. We're used to people

with low counts being shocked at what they read here, and we love to see the growth that happens after a while. It's heartwarming to see someone's eyes awakened. You may be shocked now, but you can never go back to the way you were. You took the red pill and can't go back. Our questions will be floating around in your head and the next time you hear someone else spouting the official line, you'll have plenty of "buts" to talk about.

Welcome to DU. :thumbsup:

[info being]

79. Great post. That is how it works

It always frustrates me to see progressives back off and beat themselves up when they don't get the reaction they want from people. What kind of reaction do we want when we undermine someone's propaganda-driven worldview? "Oh, thanks."

No, we plant seeds that grow in time. We give person a clearer lense with which to see through...but the sad part is that so many times we don't know that we actually do influence people...because it takes time and it takes courage and thick skin.

This is how it happened to me. I'm thoroughly indoctrinated (years of TV, BS in Marketing, MBA), but the truth doesn't care about any of that. After a few heated arguments with Progressives, it was only a matter of time before I figured things out for myself.

[Honesthumanbeing]

81. lol

"the way you were"--I guess you guys are pretty goddamn special. You know, the attitude here is a lot like a cult--a sort of exclusive grasp of the truth, and a rationalization for the ignorance of the masses that simultaneously advances your own egos. The sad part is that I agree with a lot of the general concerns of this board, but you guys are so childish about it.

[info being]

83. Its a discussion forum..we're allowed to be childlishly foolish..

from time to time:)

Yes, some of us do belong to the truth-seeking cult. I think we should actually start a religion called "truth-seekers"...but that's a side note.

The fact of the matter is we are so marginalized by 99% of the people we know and 99.9% of the media we consume, that maybe its okay if we act a little cultish when we "get together".

[Solomon]

85. My tinfoil hat is firmly in place so your insults have no effect.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when someone else tries to fly the bullshit at you that the propaganda machine has been spewing forth.
There's nothing you can do about it. You can try and stick your head in the sand, but its too late now. The questions will float around your head.

You make the same mistake that a lot of "conspiracy" bebunkers make. That because someone believes one element of a theory, you write 'em off as believing any and every conspiracy which comes down the pike. Not so. Not by a long shot. Especially when you understand that even the government's story is a "conspiracy" since the government states that Bin Laden didn't actually fly the planes and there were at least 19 hijackers. That's a conspiracy if I ever saw one.

Please please stick around. You'll see.

[Honesthumanbeing]

86. I've tried to be concise

And I think that has gotten me misunderstood. Too much has been infered about me that is incorrect and I don't really feel like going back and figuring out how I managed to let this happen.

I'm not saying that the government doesn't engage in what some might call "conspiracy." Frankly I find it almost inconcievable that they do not. What I'm bothered by is the level of certainty, the zealousness of those that claim to have figured out the whole conspiracy. Some aspects of deception are obvious. It's pretty obvious bush was deceptive about the reasons for the war. You can see this no matter what the media's slant is. There is a claim beyond this level, however, that bothers me: the claim that a very sophisticated sort of brainwashing is taking place to suit the ends of some grand plan. Even if this WERE the case I don't believe it would be in anyone's capacity to realize it and comprehend how it is occuring. Don't get me wrong--propaganda exists. It is amazing that 70 percent of the american public believed at one point that saddam was responsible for 911. But when people come to me and tell me that they hope to open my eyes to the grand scheme of things--how my thinking has been manipulated and "what's really going on" I can't help but feel a bit insulted. Personally I don't think any of you have the capacity to decipher, from the available evidence, what is really going on behind the scenes, nor do I. What is really happening may be bad, but it is probably not WHAT you think is really happening. I think all we can really do is recongize negative trends and eliminate them. Bush is one such negative trend, and I intend to work towards this end with my vote. This is all I can do.

[info being]

87. What purpose does propaganda serve if not a grand scheme?

You are arguing that propaganda exists...but it doesn't exist to "shape things" or support a grand scheme? Then its not propaganda...just bias. I respectfully disagree.

Read the PNAC website and you'll see one example of a Grand Scheme to shape things. Propaganda is one of the tactics they use...the other, as they mentioned in documents on the site, is to "shape events."

I don't argue necessarily that Al Qaieda is fake...just that the powers that be in this country helped shape what happened to some degree. Did you know they had plans to attack Afghanistan in October 2001...as early as in July 2001. I'd be happy to produce evidence if needed.

[info being]

89. Have you been exposed much to Chomsky or Palast?

You might find it interesting.

[Solomon]

90. Look. You were the one who started with the insults. Calling someone

insane. No one has insulted you, but you feel insulted some way. Nobody here has stated how the whole thing went down contrary to your statement. The only issue posed by this thread is whether Al Qaeda is a myth or not. Now you seem insulted by the fact that some of us believe that it's bullshit. You insult people here without giving any fucking opinion whatsoever on the point yourself, except to call someone insane and childish. Give us your reasons why you think different, rather than attack people.

So what, you don't believe in a "very sophisticated sort of brainwashing is taking place to suit the ends of some grand plan". Keep on believing that. That's your prerogative. But a lot of us have spent a lot of time and effort studying what is happening to us. We have read the PNAC papers and we have learned about Operation Northwood, and we are connecting a lot of dots. So what, you're late. That's okay. Stick around. If you can manage to get rid of that attitude, you might learn something. I guess you still think Bush was elected.

[Old and In the Way]

100. "a very sophisticated sort of brainwashing

to suit the ends of some grand plan"....we think that's exactly the case...here's why-


March 3, 1999: Andrew Krepinevich, Executive Director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, before the Senate Armed Services Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities: "There appears to be general agreement concerning the need to transform the US military into a significantly different kind of force from that which emerged victorious from the Cold and Gulf Wars. Yet this verbal support has not been translated into a defense program supporting transformation ... the "critical mass" needed to effect it has not yet been achieved. One may conclude that, in the absence of a strong external shock to the United States - a latter-day "Pearl Harbor" of sorts - surmounting the barriers to transformation will likely prove a long, arduous process.
September, 2000: The neo-conservative think-tank Project for the New American Century writes a "blueprint" for the "creation of a 'global Pax Americana.'" The document, entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century, was written for the Bush team even before the election for President took place. It was commissioned by future Vice President Cheney, future Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, future Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Florida Governor and President Bush's brother Jeb Bush, and future Chief of Staff for Cheney Lewis Libby. The report calls itself a "blueprint for maintaining global US preeminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests." The plan shows Bush intended to take military control of Persian Gulf oil whether or not Saddam Hussein was in power and should retain control of the region even if there is no threat. It says: "The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein." The report calls for the control of space through a new "US Space Forces," the political control of the internet, the subversion of any growth in political power of even close allies, and advocates "regime change" in China, North Korea, Libya, Syria, Iran and others. It also mentions that "advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool." A British Member of Parliament says of the report, "This is a blueprint for US world domination -- a new world order of their making. These are the thought processes of fantasist Americans who want to control the world."

excerpted from www.cooperativeresearch.org

[Karenina]

113. Back to school with you! Maybe you've come to the right place.

There has been a massive failure (intentional? :tinfoilhat:) in the American educational system.

"There is a claim beyond this level, however, that bothers me: the claim that a very sophisticated sort of brainwashing is taking place to suit the ends of some grand plan. Even if this WERE the case I don't believe it would be in anyone's capacity to realize it and comprehend how it is occuring."

With this statement, the ignorance that appalls so many of us is revealed. Everyone who plops himself down on the couch in front of American TV is exposed to a STEADY DIET of brainwashing by advertising and marketing. Their tactics are, in fact, quite sophisticated, well-researched and tested. They spend wagon loads of dough it. It's actually quite simple to comprehend if one has worked in the "industry" or takes the time to STUDY THE AVAILABLE INFORMATION critically and carefully. :think:

[hang a left]

120. There are other threads.

n/t

[info being]

57. Great post! I totally agree.

The only terrorists we have to fear are those occupying the White House (and their buddies).

[Minstrel Boy]

61. This post calls for a Bushflash moment:

Ahmed is buddy buddy with George Tenet,
Ahmed is buddy buddy with Mohammed Atta.

http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html

There must have been a military order.

[Jose Diablo]

68. Norad had to have been ordered to stand down

Do you suppose Myers issued that order, or was the order a result of the war game simulation underway at that time simulating the very thing that happened?

I wonder if the simulation had the remote fly by wire through the aircraft transponders engaged?

Edit spelling

[Old and In the Way]

101. OK.....that's it.

That's what I was missing. I've always figured the RC/Stand-down was the way it went down. But I couldn't figure how...I thought it was a false flag, but they never played that card...and it's too late now to say they were confused. I often wondered why. They really don't want us to go there....I've seen very little about that. But that association is brilliant....that is how they coordinated the whole goddam thing.

A "coincidental" simulation about a plane crash emergency on the same day.....of course.

If I recall, Cheney went nuts when some info on this was leaked. The specific leak was a sigintel that talked about this training simulation happening on 9/11. I think he wanted the Senate Intelligence committee to take a lie detector test because of this leak.

Thank you....I think we need to start a thread focused on that exercise and get serious about that exercise.

[Jose Diablo]

116. If the RC is active

The cockpit voice recorder in the black box will be blanked out. Not sure but I think the recording channel is switched to the autopilot controls-transponder channel in the event a remote override is active.

Have the black boxes been recovered? Has the cockpit voice recordings been made public?

[YNGW]

84. This is Tin-foil Hat Lite

You wanna walk on the wild side of "Tin Foil Hat" world, pay a visit to Indymedia sometime.

[info being]

88. And if you want the tin foil blindfold...turn on the TV sometime.

[YNGW]

91. You Win The Grand Prize!

Talk like that will win you HUGE celebrity status here:

http://indymedia.org/en/index.shtml

They'll anoint you KING. Oh, no they won't. That would be a hierarchy. OK. They'll take you into their collective and feed you organic food (well, they'll tell you that's what it is) and send you out to black bloc and tree sit and pass out literature on Noam Chomsky, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and Castro. Make sure you remind everyone how both political parties are really corporate whores serving the same master. Bush, Cheney, Kerry, Edwards, Dean, Clark, Clinton, Reagan, etc..., corporate fascists all of them. You must preach the beauty of Anarchy. You need to tell people that Anarchy doesn't mean "out of control", it means "out of THEIR control". Sharpen up on your knowledge of 1936 Spain, you'll need to quote that a lot. And make sure you can explain you don't hate Jews, just some Jews. Oh, there's so much more, but you'll figure it out.

You'll love it! Go have fun!

[info being]

92. Good summary

Go on paying no attention to the men behind the curtain. All I'm doing is connecting the obvious dots rather than being labotomized by the corporate media. It doesn't require that I do all the things you suggested.

I guess you're confusing the actual ideas with the fashion of progressive thought? You'll be happy to knew that I'm well-dressed and work in a cube.

[YNGW]

93. Thank You

I know the men behind the curtain. The only people concerned by them are those who don't know how to control the situation. I do. I always have. Others don't believe me when I tell them this. But, that's their problem, not mine.

[info being]

95. Haha...please do tell us how you "control the situation"

Do you mean that as long as your life is ok then everything's ok? I got my life under control too, but that doesn't mean that I'm unconcerned with the destruction of the human race and this planet we depend upon.

[LoneStarLiberal]

97. Where To Start?

When George W Bush spoke before Congress after 9-11, and officially blamed a shadowy, nebulous terrorist organization called Al Qaeda for 9-11 - he was using information that was basically concocted by Western intel agencies all in on the game of setting up a fake terror threat that we could all rally behind. "Al Qaeda" is actually a division of the Western intel agencies that perpetrates their terrorist bombings in co-ordination with the New World Order operatives in the Black Ops world. "Al Qaeda" is a political convenience for the Fascist fiends now consolidating power in every major political party in the West, save an enlightened few (The US Greens, the Canadian NDP). Every overt act that this Black Ops spin off perpetrates benefits the Fascist war mongers. Indeed, if Al Qaeda didn't exist, the Fascists would have to invent it. Which, of course, they did.

I dislike Bush just like everyone else here. But where to begin with such an outlandish opening salvo?

Al-Qaeda has many causes and many concerns, but it is most certainly NOT a "fake terror threat." Did our government, working to bolster the Afghan muj, train and equip the first generation of al-Qaeda leaders? You bet we did.

While we are responsible for Al-Qaeda's success (we would probably still have al-Qaeda's existence without our massive Afghan aid program), and while the CIA and certain military units were most definitely involved in training and logistics for the Afghan muj that would staff the first generation of al-Qaeda leadership, simply because those things are true and the fingerprints of many Republican figures are happily all over the early origins of al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein during the 1980s doesn't make it an ongoing conspiracy.

This is some typical Western arrogance. I guess the angry, redemptive message posited by such radical Islamic scholars as Sayyid Qutb that informed the radical philosophy and militant plans of al-Qaeda doesn't play a part. I guess the radicals of the Islamic world can't tie their own shoes without it being part of a Western conspiracy theory.

[paulthompson]

102. People forget some history

Up until 1989, bin Laden was the number two man in the organization later to be known as al-Qaeda. The number one man was Abdullah Azzam, the mentor of bin Laden, and just as hard line as him.

In 1989, Azzam died mysteriously, after a falling out with bin Laden. It was widely suspected bin Laden had him killed and took over the organization. Interestingly enough, bin Laden (and Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda's number two) privately claimed that Azzam had to go because he was too close to the CIA.

Is this true? Had Azzam not died, would al-Qaeda have been led by a firebreathing radical calling for the destruction of the West while secretly working with the CIA? Or was it perhaps the pot calling the kettle black, and bin Laden really one with the secret CIA ties?

We just don't know. The fact is, the intelligence and criminal worlds are filled with intrigue and double and even triple agents. People who call this idea "tin foil" are laughably naive, because it's happened so many times before. There are numerous examples of Third World dictators denoucing the US while secretly being on the CIA payroll, including some of our favorites like Noriega and Hussein (at least in his early days).

So why should it be so different with al-Qaeda? I don't doubt al-Qaeda exists, and that the rank and file members generally believe in the group's rhetoric. But could the direction of the organization be steered by one or more leaders secretly working with other groups?

Take Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the purported 9/11 mastermind. According to Robert Fisk, probably the most respected journalist covering the Muslim world, and others, Mohammed is at least as much working for Pakistan's ISI as al-Qaeda. If that's true, that means the entire 9/11 operation was organized by an agent of a close US ally. Think about that.

See for instance this article by Fisk:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035778519658&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154%20

Or this essay I wrote (esp. near the end):

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayksmcapture.html

There's a lot more going on in the murky worlds of intelligence than meets the eye. Another example: before 9/11 the Indian government captured an al-Qaeda cell working in Bangladesh that turned out to actually be Mossad agents pretending to be al-Qaeda.

Yet another example: it was widely reported in the front pages of Europe that bin Laden met with CIA officers as late as July 2001. That information came from French intelligence. Is it a confirmed fact? No. But is there a reason to believe US intelligence over French intelligence about this? US intelligence is sure proving reliable and trustworthy lately, isn't it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,584444,00.html

[Solomon]

121. To further bring home your point, It has long been my

belief that the secret ops world is so murky that no one really knows who is working for who, except at the very top of course. This means that operatives are really nothing but patsys in that they may think they are working for one thing, but actually working for someone else. Take the so-called hijackers for example. How difficult would it have been for the CIA to recruit some arabs under the illusion that they were working for Al Qaeda. It's easy to hire some guys. tell them where to go and what to do. Rent a room here, rent a car there, go to flight school, etc. I bet that none of those guys even knew they were going to crash those plans into buildings.
It fits because everytime someone not in the loop reported on these guys, they were ignored. I'll even bet there is no love lost between the competing intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Can you imagine how the CIA must look down on local law enforcement? Those guys do nothing but get in the way of special ops.

It's gotten to the point where CIA, Mossad, M5, Pakistani Intell are all one big fucking family. With rivalries to be sure, but still one damn family.

[Snappy]

105. Interesting

It is not impossible that Osama is a deep cover CIA agent provacotuer. That the members of his network have no idea that he is with the CIA. Someone here wrote that it is mighty strange that zero strikes, even small scale ones, have not been taken within the USA. I feel that this is strange, as well.

Saudi Arabia has now been on the "hit" list of Perle's agenda. Strange that the Kingdom is also on Osama's hit list, as well. There are many dots to connect.

Of course, even if a solid case was made for this theory it is seriously doubtful that more than a handful of Americans would believe it. It goes against the ingrained loyalty factor of being an "American".

[undergroundpanther]

107. Huh?

When did NOT trusting a 'leader who's in power who by all appearances is corrupt,nuts,out of touch with the citizens surrounded by manipulative religious fruitcake bullies make someone not an American?
One does not have to trust a selected president to be loyal to thier fellow citizens.

Being loyal to ones country isn't the same as follow the leader of said country.Bush is not america nor does he care about the welfare of 99% of americans.
I will defend my family,freinds,neighbors and whatever people who can prove by thier actions they share with me,a true distaste for corruption and prove they are not a sell out,to 'power' or money,
before I will offer any of my support trust.I will not defend a P.R. crafted political 'image'that coveres up a history of corruption dressed in a human suit waving a flag to screw the poor and enrich the rich planning to take over the world and remake it in his own utopian grande society.

If my disagreeing with corruption in high places makes me unpatriotic,well ..So BFD? What I'm saying here is this countries leadership isn't worth trusting at all because it hasen't proven to be trust-worthy enough to me.Bush hasen't earned my trust so he gets none of my support.My trust dosen't come cheap.It's earned.

Not trusting bush or this administration does NOT mean I would refuse to help my neighbors and fellow citizens in need.It simply means I will not aid and abet agents or politicians of political corruption even if it's colored red,white or blue,or whatever,If it helps foster corruption in others or is corrupt itself those people can kiss my ass.

I don't care what these kinds of power hungry creeps call themselves,to me they are creeps and that discounts anything they say,about themselves,others and thier excuses for thier bad behavior.
I know politicians by thier fruit and most of thier fruit is rotten.
I see the effects of what they do for thier self interested greed That's all I need to know about thier sickening characters to not trust them at all.

U.p.

[paulthompson]

108. bump

bump

[KG]

109. bravo.

[Indiana Democrat]

111. Yeah...THIS is helpful.

Good God!

[Karenina]

122. Too much fer ya?

GOOD. :kick:

[Indiana Democrat]

126. So...

You're stalking me now?

Want to just get it over with and Cyber?

[gandalf]

124. Great post

Some of these issues should be addressed by the Democratic candidates (however, I am afraid that would cost poll performance, being unpatriotic).

I just watched the media coverage of the Hutton report. BBC was the evil, Blair didn't make any mistake. BBC's claim that the WMD stories were exaggerated was false. Hey, after all, they found tons of WMDs...

It's really incredible how this Lord Hutton, representative of the old British establishment, spins the facts.

[9215]

125. I said about the same thing in the Summer of 2002

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1141&forum=DCForumID60#2