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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:03 PM
Original message
Savings Rate Is Dropping, and Experts Are Puzzled
Source: NYTimes

When the recession began, Americans began to save more of their money, prompting predictions that their financial habits might be changing permanently.

But the surge has not been sustained. In September, the nations savings rate dropped for the third consecutive month, the Commerce Department said Friday. It is now at 3.6 percent of personal disposable income, its lowest level since the month the recession began.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/29/business/americans-sa...



Duhhhh. If you're in the 99 percent, you 're raiding the savings to just make ends meet.

Class warefare or fighting back class opression begun by Reagan?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Skyrocketing food prices? Plummeting family incomes??? Do any of these things
even register for these geniuses????

NYT is written and published by 1%ers. Completely clueless or completely uncaring - take your pick.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. CPI and inflation are flat, or at target levels.
I also have a very nice bridge on the moon I would like to sell you.
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Didn't they pull food costs out of the CPI?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
87. I've seen that posted here a lot. But, I've also seen posts that say that it not true.
So, basically, I have to say, I don't know for sure, but I know there is controversy at DU about that.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. CPI now does not measure food or energy costs,which is why no Soc.Sec. COLAs.
despite the increase in prices for those necessities.

I could not afford your bridge if you gave it to me.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Cost of Living Adjustments for SS have been based on CPI-W,...
which includes food and energy prices, since they began in 1975.

You may be thinking of what is known as Core Inflation figures.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. mmfllpkht
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. The algorithms they use are so insane I pale for words. It's absolutely
outrageous, much as with how unemployment is touted IMO at a fake low rate because again of the ridiculous algorithms used. This society has become outrageous. Anyone in the US not understanding OWS is a damn fool IMO or part of the 1%.

And those doing well right now had best hold onto what they have as best they can, because we are taking on water. When the failure of the infrastructure takes hold more and more we're going to be really in a pickle.

Never, ever, in my long lifetime did I ever imagine I would see this country become what it has become.

I really can't even listen to any of the politicians anymore, most are total BS, as with most of the financial world.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
89. Well, if you haven't got anything nice to say about any elected official,
come sit next to me.

(Apologies to Alice Rooseveelt Longworth)
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #89
95. Yep, OK, save me a seat! n/t
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #89
99. +1
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Laluchacontinua Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
59. According to the BLS FAQ, it covers food & energy (gas, fuel oil, utilities)
Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 01:58 AM by Laluchacontinua
What goods and services does the CPI cover?

The CPI represents all goods and services purchased for consumption by the reference population (U or W) BLS has classified all expenditure items into more than 200 categories, arranged into eight major groups. Major groups and examples of categories in each are as follows:

* FOOD AND BEVERAGES (breakfast cereal, milk, coffee, chicken, wine, full service meals, snacks)
* HOUSING (rent of primary residence, owners' equivalent rent, fuel oil, bedroom furniture)
* APPAREL (men's shirts and sweaters, women's dresses, jewelry)
* TRANSPORTATION (new vehicles, airline fares, gasoline, motor vehicle insurance)
* MEDICAL CARE (prescription drugs and medical supplies, physicians' services, eyeglasses and eye care, hospital services)
* RECREATION (televisions, toys, pets and pet products, sports equipment, admissions);
* EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION (college tuition, postage, telephone services, computer software and accessories);
* OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES (tobacco and smoking products, haircuts and other personal services, funeral expenses).

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm#Question_6

oops, sorry, i didn't see the other correction. i'll leave this up for the link.
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. Those categories are also all weighted differently.
Housing is the largest at ~40%, next is transport at ~20%, followed by food at ~16% and then Education and Rec are both at ~6%, Medical is ~5%, Apparel and 'Other' is ~4%. per CPI-W, rates are a bit different with -U.

So changes to housing prices create a much larger impact than changes to health care. Gasoline is weighted at ~6% (almost a third of the transport category), but it spiked up 33.3% in the last 12 months.

The problem with BLS calcs is in the weighting of the categories, not the base data.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. Another critical point to remember...
The CORE CPI does not measure the rise/drop in the prices of food and gas. However
the standard CPI measure does include food and gas.

But here is the key---When the media touts their, "Inflation holding steady with only
a one-percent rise in consumer goods, as measured by the CPI..." they are using the
CPI measure. This does not include food and gas.

So really, it's a sham and a lie.

And also, as you so astutely pointed out--the goods and services in all variances of the
CPI--are weighted. It's so ridiculously misleading.

All of these measures seem to exist--to hide problems from us. They've got their formulas
to hide real unemployment, food inflation, etc. Can't let the peasants see the reality,
now can we? Just let them feel it and live it--and let the CNN talking head tell them
that everything is fine.

I'm one of those crazy couponers--and I've kept a notebook of food prices--on many items--for
the past decade. Food prices on most items is up 30 percent. On many items, prices have
doubled. It's shocking. It's certainly not the "1-3 percent" that the overlords are touting.
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. Well if you take Dec2009-Dec 2010, the rate was 1.5% (CPI-U).
A lot of this was due to the housing crash. Also as far as I know it's not clear which figure the media uses, my guess is that they're using Urban (CPI-U), not core, since Urban is the one the BLS pushes the most.

As for prices, up 30% since when? Even according to the charts, apples are up 14.6% while bananas are up 6.0% and citrus fruits are up 9.6%, this is for the Sep2010-Sep2011 period. Unless you're tracking everything, and also know in what proportions everyone is buying everything they buy, it's impossible to truly know the real value. Hence why they send people to grocery stores with clip boards, but I'm not sure how they figure out weighting.

apples are .071, bananas .066 and citrus .084 weighted. The assumption being that Americans are consuming more citrus than apples and more apples than bananas, but how do they actually derive that? According to them all of the current weights are derived from the "1993-1995 Consumer Expenditure Survey". Did people change their purchasing habits in the last 20 years? There have been calls to create both a CPI-E and -P for the Elderly and the poor, but we haven't seen movement there, and all of them would still use the same base data, just change the weighting to more accurately impart spending habits. Over the last year alone per U food went up 4.7%. Food at home went up 6.3%. Just need to look at the categories, the data is there. So transport went up by 11.8% while gas went up 33.3%, but since vehicle purchases take up 1/3 the category (almost equal to fuel purchases) and those only went up 3.6% it depresses the numbers. This is OK if overall the society has spent more on cars than on fuel for them in the year, and it's certainly possible, cars are quite pricey and they do need to be replaced at times.

If they're hiding the data, they're doing a very poor job of it, either that or the average reporter is simply to damned lazy to look for it (or bought out).
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #80
91. No cost of living increase at all for recipients of OADI that year though.
And, when you are trying to live on $1000 a month, every 1.5% helps.

No increase for two years, 2010 or 2011. And the increases are a year in arrears--and I believe it is the federal fiscal year, tho' I can't swear to it.

If am correct, then recipients today are trying to live on amounts based on the cost of living for August 1, 2007-July 31, 2008, which yielded a most increase for recipients in calendar 2009.

Does your food cost you what it did August 1, 2007-July 31, 2008? Mine costs, at the very least, 25% more.

OASDI increase in 2012 will be something like 3.5%, based on the prior year. So that will be 3.5% more than 2007=08.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #59
90. There are many cost of living indices. Your link is, I believe, to the one the Social Security Ad-
ministration does use, namely, spending patterns for each of two population groups: all urban consumers and urban wage earners and clerical workers.

It is a near insane standard to use elderly or disabled people who are also very poor, as many of them tend to be.

People struggling to live on $1,000 a month, more or less (but not much more).

Jewelry, vehicles, airline tickets, tickets to sports events, wine, full service meals?

Please, Louise!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #22
88. Don't be silly! The whole point of owning a bridge is all that income from tolls.
So, if someone wants to give you one, jump on that sucker!

;-)
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
74. The CPI doesn't include FOOD or FUEL. For most folks, that's where all their money
goes other than rent and utilities and TAXES.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
86. Actually, this fall, they finally admitted the cost of living rose last year.
Not the prior two years, though.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Some fucking experts
:rofl: Let's see put 100 bucks in savings or pay the light bill.

"Scott Hoyt, an economist at Moodys Analytics who specializes in consumer spending, said there were two competing hypotheses as to why the savings rate had dropped. One is that consumers have just decided that they need to spend they need to replace the car, the appliance, they want a new wardrobe. The other, he said, is that the data, which is often revised months down the road, is simply incorrect.

Fucking idiot.
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Marazinia Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That's so stupid it has to be deliberate
Decided they need to replace the car? Well yeah, bozo, if your car dies and you can't get to work, I guess you're going to decide to replace it. Sheesh. The way they word these things, you know they're just con artists. Anyone could have told them why we aren't saving. It's because we don't have any income above our basic needs to save. You gotta have a car, a stove, a fridge, a washer and dryer (coin laundry will cost more in the end). You gotta take the kid to the doctor when he has strep even if you don't have insurance for the visit and medicine. Never mind that minimum wage workers, even in states where costs are relatively low, can't afford those things even if they're not saving.

Our society is a slave society of debtors who can't keep up with the prices at the company store. And these guys can't figure out why we aren't saving money?

Right. Sure they can't.
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. The car died and so did the washing machine; the wardrobe can keep going
Edited on Sat Oct-29-11 06:40 PM by ShockediSay
with the stray cats and dogs in the neighborhood, and maybe Donald Trump's wig. Gave up on the insurance long ago, except for Medicare {OOOPPPPS!}
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:41 PM
Original message
When I crack wind, I'm not "puzzled" by the smell. I don't get it. nt
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I was looking at one online savings outfit recently pushing their incredible
high interest savings account ... an incredible .6%/yr. WTF are these jerks smoking.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. Not bad. Three year treasuries yield around 0.5%.
:shrug:
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. One can get about 1% online. That's about the highest I've seen. n/t
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. almost 3% w/ a couple of reliable stox nt
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. Exactly..
.. with ZIRP TPTB don't WANT you to save, they want you to spend yourself into pauperhood.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Yep, and ZIRP is working so well to improve the economy. It would be
Edited on Sat Oct-29-11 09:38 PM by RKP5637
laughable as a fix for the economy if soooooo many millions of people in the US were not suffering. What's next Negative ZIRP.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
92. In response to questioning from a Senate Committee, Bernanke recently
testified that banks are cuttently sitting on about $2 trillion. Why the hell would they pay high interest to attract more deposits when scaring people poopless about their financial futures drives money into banks for free?

And who needs it, anyway? They're not lending, excdept maybe overnight to each other.
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Another thing
If you are lucky you could get 1% on a savings account, more like .05% at most banks. I think a lot of people figure that's not even worth it, and with hard times for most of the country, there isn't really much left to save at the end of the month.

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S_B_Jackson Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Shouldn't come as a surprise....
Consumers have a choice - save their money and get a whopping 0.5% - 1.5% return; or they can pay down their debt and save on absorbing interest charges of betweein 12.5% - 25.0%.

Where's the bigger savings? Paying off accumulated debt of course. I've got about 13 months to go before I get to send the last payment out to my credit cards and give them the big "FUCK OFF" send off. We'll keep one credit card at 10.5% from our Credit union and pay cash for everything else.
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. CREDIT UNIONS are a big salvation. They must be.
The big banks hate them and so do their 1% lobbyists.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. Are debt rates
dropping?
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. ''Duhhhh. If you're in the 99 percent, you 're raiding the savings to just make ends meet.''
- Geeze. So now everyone can see. With idiots like this in-charge, it's no wonder we're in this mess.

K&R
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. We are falling off the cliff experts...things are to expensive
health care insurance
car insurance house insurance insurance etc...

everything

and why save when your money makes 0 %
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hey, "expert"
Nobody has a fucking job. They are eating their savings like starving animals with no fat start burning muscle.
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. or vital organs nt
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hmmm, save money or pay a bill. Save money or eat. Save money or clothe my children.
Tough one.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. How stupid does an "expert" have to be to understand that people are out of money?
Of course they're raiding their savings. They're unemployed.
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. I saw Apple Cider today for $ 8.99 a gallon
Shock & Awe is taking place at local grocery stores across Amerika.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. Have you seen the price of Halloween candy? I decided to wait until Monday afternoon
to see if they might have discounted the price by then.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
71. We're not participating this year
We have no children. We do not know how many kids will be making their way to our house each year. If we prepare for the worst case scenario, it's about $30 or so. Last year, we ran out of candy and were berated by one of the neighbors with kids as a result: "Don't you know our kids wait all year for this? How could you be unprepared?"

First year we lived here: 300 kids.

Year before last: 30

Last year: 75

While I enjoy seeing the little ones in their costumes, frankly, there are other things in our budget we could spend the money on. I'm not interested in another encounter with a neighbor because we bought the wrong candy, didn't buy enough, etcetera.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Your neighbor was very brutish. You are under no obligation to give candy to his children
or anyone else's. With today's economy it is understandable that some people simply can't afford to give out candy this year. I have seen an increase in trick or treaters coming to my door the last two years. It might be parents who can't afford to buy candy for their children taking them out on Halloween to get some candy they otherwise wouldn't get. It's so sad.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. Because I don't have as much money that I can put aside in my savings acct, duh.
I just had to drain my savings acct down to its $300 daily minimum to pay out-of-pocket for dental work earlier this week, and still need more work done so won't be re-upping that acct for a while. Amazing how that works: Having less money = having less money, but I'm just a lowly stupid pleb so what do I know?



These "experts" of which the NYT speaks of apparently aren't.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is a giant DUH to me. All I see around here are prices going up and income flat. Savings,
no, not so much. Anyway, the stock market is a rigged casino ... CDs, savings, etc. Forget it. The interest is SH**.


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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Stock market rigged? Not if you have inside info or hi speed computers nt
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yep, let me correct that to say rigged against most ... yep, nano-trading / proprietary
sw trading algorithms + "inside info or hi speed computers," doing just fine.


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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. If you'd like to hear the sound of your jaw bouncing off the floor, watch this.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/kevin_slavin_how_algo...

We are cutting up the planet to better accomodate those algorithms.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Thanks!!! Excellent talk! Thanks again!!! n/t
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. In a way I found it cool, in a way, I found it flat out horrifying.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. We need less 'puzzled' people.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. These must be the same experts who are "puzzled" by OWS.
:eyes:
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. These are like the experts wanting to raise SS and Medicare age eligibility
requirements up and up, like there are thousands upon thousands of jobs available for people in their 60's (or even in their 50's and younger.) Eventually in the US there will be a significant decrease in the population due to starvation, no housing and illness. This will be another example of a failed civilization in the history books. It's happened for eons, no reason why it can't happen here. We're already in a race to the bottom.

These guys use complex algorithms to come up with their preposterous questions, theories and remarks. This is the stuff that can be calculated on the back of a napkin. The problem is these individuals are insular and also part of the problem. They need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Exactly, even OWS is one huge WTF to them. Which leads me to conclude, these so called experts are failures masquerading as experts.


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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. One of the most fucked up headlines I've read all year...n/t
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Paulie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. My brother was a 99er. So I was helping him all that time with housing and food
Edited on Sat Oct-29-11 07:09 PM by Paulie
Now after 3 years he has a 10/hr job, and I'm still helping. So here's another way savings are disappearing, helping family just survive.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
76. I know what you mean. The wife's brother lost his job and his new one pays him 1/2 take home of the
old job. We help out the 8 year old niece, buying her clothes and school lunches and what ever else she needs.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. Not to mention the .5% interest rate you get on savings these days.
Costs more in gas to take your money to the bank than you'll ever get back.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Where do you get .5%?
It's more like .1% here in Michigan.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
78. That's how long ago I thought about putting money in a savings account.
My bad.
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jkappy Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
70. ..05 % you mean. Might as well hide it under a rock!
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
34. Ugh. Maybe people are having to go through their
savings to survive?

This would be my guess.

People, move your money (if you have any) to credit unions and local banks. This benefits your area and works to defund these large banks.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
37. "...its lowest level since the month the recession began."
....this can easily be explained: People have no money to save when after three years the economy is as bad as when the depression began.

....where are all those corporate 'tax-break' jobs????....do we have to give more free money to the corporations to create us some jobs????

....better hurry up Dems, get on that Socialist band-wagon and find us some government jobs or there will be more than just a few Dems unemployed next year....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftyohiolib Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
40. because banks dont need your money anymore. they have
more than they know what to do with
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. The "experts" are clueless.
Where do they get these "experts?" :eyes:
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. They're either clueless or soulless
Either way, they don't give a damn about the 99.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. Since they are puzzled they are in no way experts.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. Disposable income?
What is this disposable income they speak of? I don't get it.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
49. Huh??? Save it where???
...no interest on savings.

...the stock market is a joke.

So, I guess, the safest place is under the matress...draw out the cash and just stash it away.

Guess the NY Times and author are a bit OUT of touch with reality / the 99%!
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
51. The people who are hording all the money wonder why those that don't have
the money aren't saving. Can you say "out of touch"?
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
52. Please remember, paying off debt is "Savings" as that term is used for this calculation
Thus if you paid off your Credit Card in anticipation of losing your job, you were increasing your "savings".

What seems to be happening is in 2008 many banks cut back in Credit card limits to their credit card holders. As a result of this reduction in Credit people then had to spend down to the new limits to be able to use that card. This lead to people increasing "Savings" as they adjusted to the new Credit Card limits, but then return to normal usage when they had made those adjustments.

For example, I had one Credit Card cancelled on me, another Credit Card reduced its limit from $5000 to $4200 (The amount I had paid it down to, in anticipation of using the card the rest of the Month). Between the two cards lower limits I "Saved" Over $1000, but I am no longer doing such "savings" for I have adjusted my spending to pay down the current limit each month, and then run it back up the rest of the month (i.e. what I was doing pre-2008, but with higher limits).

People like me who saw their credit Limit slashed and adjusted to the new limits, would explain the "savings" at the start of the Recession and the decline in "savings" since. i.e no real savings or increase in savings, just adjustments around new lower Credit Limits.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
53. Puzzled???? Are you just that fucking stupid? Sheesh
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TheOther95Percent Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
54. Paying for the damage from Irene torpedoed our savings.
Add in rising food and fuel costs and we put nothing into savings last month or this month. Next month isn't looking good either.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
56. I Think This is Good Sign in the Short Term
since it will provide an economic stimulus at a time when the government is reluctant to offer enough to get the economy growing again by itself.

I also think the economists are misunderstanding the higher savings rate over the last three years. It has been due to less to thrift and more to panic and fear of financial ruin. Maybe that's starting to subside, and the paradox of savings is changing course. Plus, there's only so long you can put off major purchases.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
57. Ha Ha . . . .
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
58. We're in the 2nd Great Depression,
with 30.5% unemployment; what the fsck do they think is going to happen to the savings rate? :eyes:

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Laluchacontinua Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
60. This economist says it's a statistical anomaly.
The Mysterious Drop in the Saving Rate Print
Saturday, 29 October 2011 09:36

The NYT told readers that the saving rate has fallen sharply in recent months, registering just 3.6 percent in September, down from rates of more than 5.0 percent earlier in the year. (In the pre-bubble era, the saving rate averaged more than 8.0 percent.)

The main reason for this decline was likely erratic income data. There are often erratic movements in these numbers that cannot be explained by actual developments in the economy. In the four months from January to May, a period in which the GDP data show the economy was barely growing, wage earnings reportedly increased at a 3.9 percent annual rate. By contrast, in the four months from May to September the data show that wage earnings rose at just a 0.4 percent annual rate even though the economy grew at a 2.5 percent rate in the third quarter.

This sort of sharp slowdown in wage earnings is not plausible in an economy where growth was actually accelerating. It is more likely that wages were understated in September and indeed the whole third quarter, which means that income growth would be stronger and that the savings rate would be higher.

It is also worth noting that some of the story here reflects the timing of car purchases. Car sales were depressed in the second quarter because os shortages related to the earthquake/tsunami in Japan. The third quarter sales were strong as manufacturers had big sales incentives to make up for lost ground.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/beat-the-press/
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Maybe an economist who actually knows what he or she is talking about is an anomaly.
Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 03:06 AM by No Elephants
Sure seems that way sometimes to us ordinary folk.

(I hate it when I generalize, but sometimes the temptation is beyond my ability to resist. In my defense, I qualified it.)

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
61. Jaysus!
Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 03:22 AM by No Elephants
When the economy and the immediate future of the economy seems as utterly scary as it did in 2008, you pull back on spending as far as you can (if at all possible) and save whatever you can.

Hello, here's that rainy day, though--and it's been that rainy day for years now. Sooner or later, you HAVE to both stop saving and raid your savings to survive. You are simply out of other options.

Also, there comes a point where you just can't put off a purchase any longer, can't make that refrigerator or second hand car or your tires or your winter coat last for another day--and as Republicans have pointed out, even most poor people have the gall to use refrigators.

This is my theory on why consumer spending rose recently. People have put off purchases as long as they can, in the hopes of a turnaround and now cannot put them off any longer, or see no point in putting them off because they don't believe prosperity is just around the corner anymore.

Don't these people even read books about how people who make under 100K a year, maybe under 20K a year, actually live? Even if not, do they have any common sense AT ALL? Or are they only pretending to be befuddled about why people are stashing stacks of bills in the bank?

And these are the so-called experts in this country.

I'll retire to Bedlam.
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Celefin Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #61
67. Spot on.
Since a lot of 'consumer goods' aren't designed to last much longer than two or three years, about now would be the time where you can't make the cheap crap do any longer, especially true for clothing and shoes. Same goes for tires, or used spare parts for your necrotic car. Or your laptop with cooling issues and funny sounds from the harddrive. Or repairs to your house after all those storms and general maintenance that will turn into costly repairs if you don't finally do it now, before the winter hits.

Problem is, high quality stuff lasting ten years or more is difficult to get and by now un-affordable for many people. So you end up buying the cheap crap again, knowing full well that you end up paying more for it in the end. So you're paying more for your boots than those who can afford the quality stuff and in the end still have wet feet.
Being poor is expensive.

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
63. Then what puzzles me is why they're considered experts
:wtf:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
81. they seem EXTREMELY out of touch
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #63
83. Seems like you can take what they say, and
BELIEVE THE OPPOSITE! :rofl:
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #63
96. +1000 +++ n/t
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
65. These idiots.
.. are the same ones who, back in 2008, said the "recession" would last 12-18 months. They will point to the GDP numbers and claim they were correct, even though the only gains in the GDP were government stimulus spending.

Basically, only the better economists have a handle on what is happening now, and none of them are even talking about a recovery.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
66. My savings go into the gas tank!
Hahahahahaha! Savings?! Hahahahaha! If you think of a deficit as savings then I'm doing great.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
69. stupid freaks
Being savings accounts are paying as little as .05% what do they expect? :dunce:

:kick:

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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
72. We're spending it on food and putting the rest in a coffee can.
You keep your pennies in a coffee can? I do.

Besides, at current interest rates of less than 1/2 a percent, I'd lose money driving to the bank to deposit it.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
75. Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because people HAVE NO FUCKING MONEY TO SAVE???
These "experts" are morans.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
77. evidently these *experts* haven't shopped for groceries lately
Prices are SKYROCKETING, and packages are getting smaller. How does one save when you are getting price-gouged EVERYWHERE you look?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
79. As Bill O'Reilly would say, "People out of work, savings going down...you can't explain that!"
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #79
97. Yep, and this gives an example of why we're so F'ed up as a country when the
supposed experts (often self-acclaimed) can't understand what you just said in a short simple sentence.

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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
82. had to get a new roof
winter is coming, and mold developed from a roof leak, so had to raid the savings. pretty much depleted it. :( guess that's what a "rainy day" means....
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
84. ShadowStats has CPI at about 12%. Plus consumers were deleveraging (paying down debt)
but they'll just be running that right back up at Christmas or the next medical event.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
85. "Experts' Intelligence is Dropping, and the Public is Puzzled." n/t
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tawadi Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
93. These reports are diving me crazy. IT'S JOBS, STUPID!!
:banghead:
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
94. Candidate for this year's "You Call This NEWS?" Award
Maybe it has something to do with people MAKING LESS and having to SPEND MORE -- even if it means DIPPING INTO THEIR SAVINGS!!!

:eyes:
rocktivity
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Islandlife Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
98. Just how "expert" are these experts
Why are they called experts anyway? My savings goes down when my income drops and cost cutting measures become exhausted.
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