Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

New study: You can't live on minimum wage

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:40 AM
Original message
New study: You can't live on minimum wage
Source: Detroit Free Press

New study: You can't live on minimum wage
12:23 AM, May. 31, 2011
BY L. L. BRASIER
DETROIT FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

-snip-

The Basic Economic Security Tables for Michigan, a study that analyzes the cost of essential needs for singles and families across Michigan, found the cost of providing basic necessities -- such as shelter, food and transportation -- far exceeds minimum wage and the paychecks of people working full-time in low-paying job categories.

Among the findings:

Single Michigan residents without children must earn $12.24 an hour to support themselves.

A mother with two young children -- like Thomas -- needs $24.49 an hour to house, clothe and feed her children. That's three times the minimum wage.

The report was done by Wider Opportunities for Women and the Michigan League for Human Services.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.freep.com/article/20110531/NEWS06/105310351/...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Stop the presses!
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. I can't recall a time when a person could have lived on minimum wage in my area
I had my first job in 1975 when I was a student.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Minimum wage has never been indexed to inflation, which is its major flaw.
The double digit inflation of the late 70s and early 80s has battered the minimum wage and Republicans have never allowed it to recover.

The original minimum wage was designed to support a family of four on a "thrifty" budget above the poverty line. Now it won't allow a single person adequate food, safe housing, and routine medical care.

This should be a scandal. Thanks to the corporate press, it is not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. The federal minimum wage pre-dates any official federal poverty level by decades
Edited on Tue May-31-11 01:32 PM by slackmaster
The first minimum wage was created in 1938. Official poverty-level measures date back to the early 1960s based on data (and extrapolated) back to only 1955.



http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

It's clear that minimum wage now is not as high as it was in the mid-1960s in terms of buying power, but it has NEVER been sufficient to bring a family to the official poverty level.

People have always needed GOOD jobs. Minimum wage jobs have always been useful only as supplemental income, for entry-level work, for students, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. The point is taken...but...
$22K in 1938 was very well off. (Iow, the graph is deficient)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
a2liberal Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. Looks to me like the graph is indexed already
Compared to the numbers in the link (and seeing the constant poverty level line)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Sorry, I left out the link to the page the chart is from - It's in 2010 dollars
Edited on Tue May-31-11 03:30 PM by slackmaster
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html

Buying power for minimum wage peaked in 1968 at the equivalent of $10.04 (2010 dollars), which is not a living wage in most parts of the country.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #51
186. I'd love to see a graph comparing average wages versus minimum
throughout the years as well. And it should be a weighted average... say, an average from among the bottom 80%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
106. Now I looked this up recently, and found that the minimum wage in the 30s, indexed with inflation
Edited on Tue May-31-11 07:46 PM by Tiggeroshii
...is still about 5 dollars. Is there likely something wrong with the information I received?

Edit to add: Minimum wage in '38 was $.30. According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, that's about 4.79 now.

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

I'm wondering if the min. Wage was actually ever meant to be livable...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #106
160. when the model A rolled out...
in the early 1900's, Henry Ford paid his people $5 an hour. No, minimum wage was never meant to be livable- it is something that politicians of both parties use to make themselves feel better when thye "increase" it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #160
193. Actually, that was $5 a day
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-54463_18670_18...

But the gold in a $5 gold piece from that time would be worth about $370 today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
111. I was able to live on minimum wage when I was in
Edited on Tue May-31-11 07:53 PM by Cleita
college back in the early sixties. I only worked thirty hours a week and I was paid $1.25 an hour, yet it was enough to scrimp by with. Also, rents weren't through the roof back then either. You could rent a decent one bedroom with a roommate or two, feed yourself, have enough bus fare to get around to school and job and still maybe be able to see a movie on the weekend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #111
140. I agree - it sure wasn't a great existence. . .but I was barely
making above minimum wage in the early-mid 70's. . .and I was able to make ends meet. Of course, my rent was only $90 a month (two bedrooms, one roommate); electricity share was about $18 a month. We lived on a tight budget, but still had enough to socialize on occasion. Heck, I can remember when my one big deal every month was buying a new, decorative coffee mug, which we hung proudly on the kitchen walls. Buying something as basic as a lamp was a major purchase and I'd save for a month for a good one - or for a vacuum cleaner.

Still, most of my friends were in about the same situation at the time - the only difference being that back then, we had hope and opportunities to eventually move ahead into a living wage. Of course, some of us have seen that erode over the years - I have more than one old friend who lives (again) basically the same as we did 40 years ago after layoffs and being delegated to minimum wage jobs as they grew older.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #111
156. Yep. My very first job as a nurse's aid
in 1965 was a sub-minimum wage job -- back then far fewer jobs were covered by the minimum wage laws -- and paid $1.10/hour. I still lived at home then.

About a year later I moved out and was paid minimum which was still $1.25/hour, and I could manage on it. Just barely. I lived within walking distance of work, which helped a lot. And I had a roommate. Then the minimum was raised to $1.65/hour, and I was noticeably better off. Then I went to work for Ma Bell as an information operator and I was making slightly more. I bought my first car, a '59 VW beetle convertible. Life was good.

In the many years since then my fortunes have fluctuated somewhat, but I've always been able to manage. I think it helps a lot that I grew up in a family that had very, very little, and in high school whenever I had a babysitting job I'd use the money to buy food for the family. So now that I'm once again less well off, it's not all that hard to live frugally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #111
226. me too--I found cheap places to live ($50-65/month) and $1.65/hr I made w shift differential
Edited on Thu Jun-02-11 01:18 PM by librechik
(if i watched my budget)was plenty for a student to live a comfy existence, pay for my school& car expenses, go out occasionally. That was a golden era.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
159.  "Minimum wage has never been indexed to inflation"...
Neither has the Cost of Living Index- oh, yeah, they look at a few things (energy costs not being one of them) and say "oh, inflation isn't bad". But the average Joe Schmoe feels the pinch of inflation. We feel it every f'ing day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #159
198. Nor has the Alternative Minimum Tax
:argh:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
individual rights Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
103. The cost of living varies widely from region to region...
A one-size-fits-all type of program fits some better than others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. That's why states and some localities have their own minimum wage laws
There's no way the federal government could accurately set rates everywhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #108
110. This makes sense
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #108
162. and very few of the states....
have minimum wage laws higher than the Federal government's serf wages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #162
167. 17 states have state minimum wages that are higher than the fed
Washington, Vermont and Oregon have state minimums tied to CPI for the state with automatic adjustments at the first of each calendar year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
182. Ten years befor that you could. My MIL was abandoned by her husband in 1965
She went out and got a minimum wage job and entered into a rent to buy deal for a 2 BR house.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #182
199. I'd bet a bucket of beer she didn't live in San Diego
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #199
211. No, Seattle. What she did would have been impossible 15 years later n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. No screaming puppy poop.
Thanks for the thread, Bozita.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. pretty sure i didn't need a study to tell me that. thanks though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. I read about this in No Shit Magazine. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. plenty of DUers think mcjobs are a GREAT thing. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I am not among them
If the minimum wage was $20.00 an hr. it wouldn't be enough and we're a long way from that~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wpelb Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
95. How much would a crappy cheeseburger cost . . .
. . .if the minimum wage was twenty bucks an hour?

I guarantee you it would cost a lot more than it does now. I wouldn't be able to afford it, at least not very often. Neither would most other customers at Mickey D's. There would then be far fewer people working at Mickey D's or any other place where the primary labor force works at or near minimum wage.

Of course, if everything else started costing a lot more, and wages were likewise increased in all fields of employment, that double-sawbuck hourly wage would buy no more than eight or nine bucks an hour gets now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #95
109. Cheeseburger would cost the same no matter the wage.
Business cannot charge on a cost-plus basis. They charge based on the intersection of supply and demand. The current price of crappy burgers is obviously as high as they think they can charge, or else they would charge more. Those companies are neither charitable nor kind - they go for all they can possibly get.

Same goes for taxes. Many people (not economists) think that raising taxes will raise prices. Nonsense. If they could charge more, they would.

Now, if wages were much higher, would a lot of crappy products disappear? Very likely, because workers would be able to work making better things, for instance. Would I cry if a lot of poverty-level products disappeared? Nope. Truth is, with better incomes, people buy better things - shoes that will last for years, for instance, because $400 shoes can last for decades (yes, and I have some), instead of having to buy poorly made crap at dollar stores for $12 that need replaced 6 times a year.

One last thing - business apologists always attack wages, never anything else. Oil goes up, up, up? Well, that's the market, they say? Electric rates rise? Just normal increases over time, they say. Water rates double in five years? Well, water's important. Executive bonuses jump? Well, we have to get the best people. But let some Joe Nobody on the line ask for 50 cents an hour more, and it's STOP! Communism or terrorists at work!! They're traitors to the USA and bad, greedy, awful people to boot! Far too many people are working in this country for wages, period. The extended family, a stable model, has been destroyed by making everyone old enough to work (and too old) to grub for enough money to buy crap.

There's a course attached to this, of course, that I teach twice a year to my seniors. My goal? Their financial independence and distance from squids, crooks, and leeches.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #109
169. Awesome rebuttal to that utter nonsense! n/t
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #109
187. +1.. clearest post in the thread right here. . . . .n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #109
209. One error in there
Edited on Wed Jun-01-11 04:20 PM by FBaggins
Part of "what they think they can charge" is driven by competition.

Burger King doesn't think they can charge $2 for the basic cheeseburger because McDonalds charges 99 cents for theirs and BKs isn't twice as good. Neither one will increase it much because Wendys also has a value menu... as does Taco Bell, etc.

It isn't that nobody will pay more for a basic burger... it's that nobody will pay one vendor more when the guy down the street charges less.

If costs or taxes go up such that McDonalds can't make a profit at 99 cents, they certainly will increase their prices... but people will pay it because the place down the street has raise their prices as well.


Take gas stations as an example. Gas was $3/gal not so long ago and last month is was closer to $4. $3 was not "as high as they thought they could charge or else they would charge more" because that's all that consumers would ever be willing to pay for a gallon of gas... it was "as high as they thought they could charge" because the station across the street could turn a profit at $3. If one station raised their price by .20, the guy across the street would get all the business. You can't claim that nobody would pay such a price and THAT's why the price was at $3... because it went to $4 just a few months later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #109
228. You have a point about the taxes
Politicians could raise my taxes and I wouldn't be able to raise my prices or I would lose so many customers I wouldn't be able to stay in business. So instead, I'd take home less money like I've been doing for the last 3 years until I finally got fed up enough to fire my employees and close my business.

You charge what the market can bear. When you get to the point where expenses come close to what you can reasonably charge, you can only stay in business if you sell huge volumes. If you're a small business, you close your doors. The only industries that can get away with jacking up costs on a continual basis without putting themselves out of business are energy, food producers and health care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #95
119. Bullshit.
in the 1990's McD's didn't have a dollar menu. Most of the crap there was $3 or more. The minimum wage at that point was in the $4.15 to 4.75 an hour range.

Today, the minimum wage is hovering just under the $8 an hour range, yet all the fast food co's are happy to dedicate an entire section of their menu for shit selling for a buck.

Your argument is a CLASSIC billionaire argument against raising min wage and it just doesn't hold water.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #95
144. Maybe with better wages,
we could eat something better than those crappy cheeseburgers.

:think:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #95
168. Wow...
I was going to post a rebuttal to your nonsense, but it looks like you already got your a** handed to you on a plate. lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #95
172. It would cost what the market would bear
A crappy cheeseburger is a crappy cheeseburger no matter what the employees are making.

A better question is, what is it costing us now? I'm seeing fewer and fewer high school and college age kids working the drive through these days and more and more 30, 40 and 50 somethings working there, no doubt out of desperation because of the current job market due to outsourcing etc. People with families that work those kind of low end jobs often qualify for food stamps and other assistance. I'm not knocking them for taking it, but I have to ask, what is the lifestyle of the executive class in that biz costing my working class ass whether I buy the crappy cheeseburger or not, because I'm the one subsidizing what they are failing to provide in their payroll. God knows the big time exec class can't be put upon to pony up their fair share of taxes to pay for anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. you may not know this
but even McJobs pays a little more than minimum wage. We now need a study to show us how many % of american workers earn minimum wage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. Really? Do enlighten us wise one. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PotatoChip Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
60. That is a good question
I've wondered about that too. As well as the demographics as to who is making minimum wage.

-I read somewhere several years ago that the largest demographic earning minimum wage was adult women and not the stereotypical teenager working for 'fun money'. I'd like to know if that is still true, (or if it ever was, since I don't remember the source).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #60
82. BLS has it
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2006.htm

Mostly part-time young workers in food service.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PotatoChip Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Interesting. Plenty of good info
Thanks for the link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. They are, for 16 year olds that live at home
If they just have a cell phone bill, $200 a week is enough to pay that, go out to eat here and there, get some clothes, and a PS3 game every few weeks. But for everyone else, I agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. not really.
It's those jobs that are keeping those teenagers from living in a prosperous country as adults. When I had my minimum wage job, I'd have guys a lot older than me come in asking for applications. When I told them what it paid, they'd usually just walk out - it wasn't even worth it. Those 16 year olds working for that money - when they already have food and shelter - are keeping others from having those very simple dignities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #58
96. That is a Very Good Point
There's nothing inherently wrong with having lower paid part-time jobs so teenagers can have spending money. I did it and it's good experience. But it shouldn't come at the expense of people who need to support themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #96
115. When I got my first job in 1993, I got whatever the NJ minimum wage was
I worked three days a week, and thought I was rich. Never seen so much money in my life, and didn't have a single bill. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #58
114. So what are you saying, those 16 year olds shouldn't work at all?
I hope that's not what you mean. If you are 16, 18, or even 24 and still live at home and pay only one or two small bills, that job is far better than no job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #114
204. I'm not saying that at all.
What I am saying is that arguing that it's ok for teenagers to make less money because they don't really need it only serves to drive down wages for all of us. I was making more money out of high school in the 90's than I was in 2006 with a master's degree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
101. No as in ZERO DUers think that. But plenty of folks seem to project that on other DUers. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. REAGAN BEATS MONDALE IN A LANDSLIDE!
Geez, MLHS . . . 30 years ago called, they want their obvious back . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
66. Too bad Rayguneconomics
didn't die with the man....

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rip-reaganomics-revolu...

From his lips to God/Goddess' ears.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #66
93. It's funny how that whole mess of a system has his namesake . . .
. . . when it was likely he didn't understand any of it.

And yes, Dumberica is going to pay a grave price for never having rid themselves of Freidman-on-steroids capitalism for thirty one years straight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joanbarnes Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. Duh! How much did this "study" cost?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnetteJacobs Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
147. See post #38.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
canuckledragger Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #147
165. post 38 isn't the best example
It's only recently that minimum wage in my province of Ontario was raised to $10.25/hr...for quite awhile it around $8 & change. $12.24/hr is a dream in most areas here.

..Remember that our provinces are HUGE, that minimum wage applies to ALL cities within the province, with no adjustments made for living expenses in those cities

A 1-2 bedroom apt in my home city runs around &700-800 regardless of location, often you have to pay for utilities too. Monthly bus passes are around $60, 2.25 per ride without. (buses start around 7AM, stop at 11PM..tough luck for anyone working schedules outside of that, cabs are a killer if you need to use them)

Most of the jobs advertised here are service based (cleaners, cashiers, restaurant, etc.) & most are part time (but seems to work out to just under full time hours) with no benefits.

Yes we have excellent UNIVERSAL health care but most can't afford to take time off & miss that pay..you'll feel the hurt somewhere, usually with groceries. Said healthcare has been chipped away at by conservatives here there, it no longer covers eye exams (starts somewhere around $80..glasses themselves can start around the $200 range) not sure if it ever covered dental (but hey..you can live without teeth, right? YAY Ensure.../sarcasm)

That all said..that's some of the challenges faced here..in a relatively small city. God help if you live in a big one like Toronto..one of the biggest, wealthiest cities in Canada..& a huge homeless population. No real excuse for that.

Got anything else to say? Try raising a family on minimum wage.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
livingonearth Donating Member (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. That doesn't mean the repubs won't still want to abolish it so they can pay less.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. No shit headline n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. You can't? But the Tea Party says you can live for less than minimum wage!
Then again, the Tea Party also does say that God created the Earth 6000 years ago and that Obama is simultaneously a fascist, a Marxist, a Muslim, an extremist Christian, and more.

K&R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. You can live on minimum wage, but not for long.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. That would be Muslin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. I've noticed something
The vast majority of those who say one can live on minimum wage aren't' themselves trying to live on minimum wage.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. I can live on minimum wage, but that's just me.
My living expenses are very low and a minimum wage job would pay my bills. Not much more, but it would do that and I realize I am an exception to the general rule and I am doing it right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #52
69. What gets me is that this women of twins
is providing the MOST IMPORTANT HEALTH CARE TO INDIVIDUALS, yet she is being paid SHIT! That is hard work...and caring for the sick and elderly gets you nothing in this country. Yet our Health Costs are higher than any other country.

It's a Women's Job to take care of the sick and elderly....and our sick culture won't pay her a fair wage for it. Hell, Hospice work is VOLUNTEERS.

Our priorities are so f*cked up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
84. You can live for less than Min wage in yo mamma's basement
I think thats how the Tea-partiers have it figured.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. And those on SSI, have to live on less than minimum wage n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Yep, I living on it. $1,400 a month doesn't go far.
And deducted out of that is $110 for Medicare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. Nationally SSI is only $674, SS Disability can pay better, but is a different program
Now, Social Security, Social Security Disability AND Supplemental Security Income (SSI) are all run by the Social Security Administration (SSA), Social Security taxes only pay for the first two, SSI is paid via general funds (i.e. Income Taxes). The test for disability for Social Security Disability and SSI are the same, the difference is your work record. SSI was set in the 1960s as the minimal amount you needed to survive. SSI goes to those people who are NOT eligible for Social Security Disability OR if eligible for Social Security Disability, the amount they are entitled to is less below the "Standard of Need". The "Standard of Need" was set in the 1960s and income indexed so it goes up each year (Except the last two, where we have had officially no inflation).

Just pointing out $1400 a month is NOT SSI, SSI recipients get only $671 per month.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
63. Sorry, I did not specify that I am receiving Social Security
Edited on Tue May-31-11 04:29 PM by RebelOne
and not Social Security Disability.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. I want the final results from a 20 year/300 million study from the Feds by 2050. That will settle it
Edited on Tue May-31-11 12:35 PM by Safetykitten
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. I assume they mean without government programs.
In my job, I see people get by on much less than $24.49 per hour (most of my co-workers make much less), but government programs fill the gaps. I interviewed a woman this morning who gets by on 7.25 per hour, but she has HUD, Medicaid, WIC, and food stamps. Still, she doesn't make ends meet.

The lesson here is that if you're going to allow businesses to pay less than a living wage, then the government has to provide what the employers do not. You can't demand low pay AND eliminate programs. It's another form of government subsidy to businesses. We provide benefits to their employees, to prop up their bottom line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. You nailed it right on the head
Lower wages = more reliance on government programs. But somehow I doubt you'll see any republicans making that argument as a way to reduce government spending.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I think the way Wal-mart employees depend on things
like food stamps and other such safety net programs is just an example of the way that so many major employers force the government (taxpayers) to fill in the financial gaps rather than paying their workers a livign wage--and then they refuse to pay their fair share of taxes to support those programs, so more and more of the burden gets shifted onto the middle class and working class taxpayers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
70. In states with newly elected
Repugnant Govs (MI,OH,TN and others), the money that helps fill those gaps is going to be REDUCED DRAMATICALLY. These Govs are sadists and want to see people really hurting.

Of course Wal-Mart makes their employees go the gov't to make up for they SHOULD pay in benefits. Wal-mart is the largest employer in the US now. I refuse to shop their.

We're a cruel nation.

And while I'm ranting....if a poor woman wants a damn abortion, it should be legal, safe, and federally funded. If any woman wants an abortion, she should have that right.

I'm sick of tax money going to kill people in the Middle East....let us provide abortions instead. (Of do TPTB want future cannon fodder?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. file this under the "no shit sherlock" category
at $24 an hour you can have a child or you can have a retirement, not both

at $6 an hour everything you make goes in getting to/from work
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well DUH!
...what kind of a moron can't figure this out...Oh ya, the GOBPers, RushThugs and T.HATERbagger million/billionaires.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. Much, much more in this month's issue of DUH! magazine
Edited on Tue May-31-11 12:55 PM by KamaAina
on newsstands now.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. Another gem from the no-shit-Sherlock file.
They had to do a formal study to figure this out? Oy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. No shit, why do they think I'm on SSI?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IScreamSundays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. We needed a study for this??
I added it up in my head, didn't even use a calculator.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
71. Lots of teabaggers and selfish
greedy people will deny this....please allow the Researchers to provide information to the mis-informed as well as allowing them a F*CKIING JOB.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. In other news, water is wet
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. Shaking my head in disbelief. Someone actually commissioned this study?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
72. You sound like
a freeper.....wasteful gov't spending. Why would you deny a Researcher a job?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #72
98. No. Just wondering why it takes research to learn something so damn obvious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #98
107. You must live
in a lovely progressive area....around here in the fly over states, the single mother is looked down upon. They feel she is taking from them via gov't handouts. And she doesn't know how to budget.

Where so you people live? I want to live around enlightened and intelligent people.

This study provides ammunition for me....I can show to my neighbor and maybe enlighten someone.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #107
139. I live in MA. You would starve and or freeze and or die of disease on minimum wage here.
Edited on Tue May-31-11 10:07 PM by bluerum
Maybe, just maybe, in the rural most areas in the western part of the state you could live by gardening, raising livestock and heating with wood.

Or you could work three full time minimum wage jobs and pull down $1000 a week until you die of exhaustion after two weeks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #139
163. then why are we disagreeing w/
each other?

Sorry to bother you....but why are fighting amongst ourselves?

But I see that you haven't died of disease of minimum wage there yet....now have you?

As the saying goes: The economy has created 1,000 jobs and I have 4 of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #163
202. Not disagreeing. My position is that the conclusion of the study should be obvious to a one eyed
Edited on Wed Jun-01-11 11:17 AM by bluerum
monkey. The fact this is recycled every few years simply indicates the level of neglect. It is painfully obvious to anyone trying to make a living that minimum wage is a cruel joke.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #202
206. Look what the Repugnants
in Ohio are trying to do: Eliminate the Minimum Wage for many...everyone will become an 'independent contractor' and not allowed a Minimum Wage.

http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/05/31/senate-republican... /

Hell, I've read that many people are becoming INTERNS for months and months....thinking that they will be hired someday.

It's Slavery, Stupid!

I gotta say that I appreciate the studies...gives me updated ammunition to fight the shit that Ohio greedy people believe. The hatred and greed that some people have against the Working Poor is simply jaw-dropping.

Teddy Kennedy gave a great rant on the Senate floor a few years ago...yelling: 'Why do you Republicans hate working people so much? What is it about them that makes you so hateful?' I'm bet it's on YouTube. It was a righteous rant!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
136. Just because "everybody knows that" doesnt mean an empirical study is worthless. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Luciferous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. Anyone with basic math skills could tell you that. They really needed to do a study?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
32. We should have a "GD:No Shit Sherlock" board.
I cannot believe these people are that far from the reality here on the ground.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
canuckledragger Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. as a person well used to minimum wage work let me say..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnetteJacobs Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
152. See post #38.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
canuckledragger Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #152
171. How about a constructive argument from yourself
instead of spamming about one of the few posts claiming to live comfortably on scraps?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. Well no shit.
stupid obvious study of the week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. And yet the billionaires and corporations who have bought our government don't give a shit
something has to change. drastically. even if we have to ditch our current economic system - something must change.

if nothing else we should tax the rich to the point where everyone can have a living wage - even if that means billionaires lose 90% of their money. we have been so screwed for so long by the rich - this can not continue. so sad that sooooo many people don't make enough to live. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. the study looks ridiculous to me - $12.24 an hour?
I have not made that much for most of the last decade, (and heck, probably the 1990s as well) and I have been living just fine - even with two and three dogs. That is, much more than I need. People can and do live on less than $24,000 a year, and families live on less than $40,000 a year. To say that somebody cannot flies in the face of actual experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Depends on where you live and what support system such as
family, spouse, etc. you have.

It also depends on your health, whether you have access to inexpensive public transportation and a number of other things.

So, you, hfojvt, may be able to live on less than someone with challenges you don't have. This is about averages.

If you aren't working outside your home, you can spend a lot less on things like shoes, clothing, transportation and even meals.

But if you have, for instance, a job in sales, just dressing appropriately can be a pretty big expense.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radhika Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. What are your expenses like - if you don't mind my asking...
I know lots of people making less - but:

They usually don't have to pay for healthcare, or simply do without.
They often have preferred housing situations - use of a family home, they live with a wage-earner, room mates.
No education costs...for self or children.
The have assets that come outside of wage earnings - divorce settlements, grey economy, insurance settlements

Here in LA, a single person trying to living alone in a reasonable safe neighborhood, paying their own utilities and expenses and the like won't make it without one of the above. I know, I've been there.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
68. the study said that a single, childless person needs $12 an hour
for all of Michigan. I did this for two decades in a number of states and living situations. During graduate school in Lincoln, Nebraska. Yes I had a roommate for a year, but I moved in with him to help HIM with expenses. It saved me some too, not that I needed it, but an extra $50 a month does not hurt. Otherwise I have been living on my own. Then I moved to Wisconsin and rented several places and worked several jobs.

No, I never had health insurance either, not until June of 2004. Mostly I had no medical bills, other than dental, which I covered out of pocket.

One of the great things about small towns is that there really are no 'bad' neighborhoods but lots of people also live in those unsafe neighborhoods and are mostly safe there. I don't think Michigan is like California. I understand it IS impossible to live in California on any income.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #68
166. No bad neighborhoods in small towns?
You must not know how meth smells when they're cooking it, cause I guarantee there are plenty of bad neighborhoods in small towns these days and I can't name a town that doesn't have at least two crack houses in it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. You can throw up anecdotal evidence to try to dispute anything -
but I'd love to know WHY you're disputing it. Do you really believe it's easy for families making minimum wage to survive (and don't tell me dogs cost as much as kids - I'm raising both and have a very good handle on that), or are you just intent on cutting down the argument because you're into the status quo (of the rich holding all the money and everyone else living as virtual slaves).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
75. because I think the argument is ridiculous
and my own experience proves it. It can be done.

As for families on minimum wage, that was not the question. This ridiculous study claimed that a family of three could not live on less than $24 an hour - about $48,000 a year.

I don't think you help to change the status quo when you advance ridiculous arguments like "the mininmum wage should be $15 an hour".

And heck, according to the study, even that, a $15 an hour full time job would not be enough for a single mom to live on. Even $20 an hour would not be enough. :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. It's an average - I grew up in what I used to affectionately call "bumblefuck Wisconsin" -
yes in a rural area your mortgage is $500 a month on a huge house, and your big expenses right now will be gas to get to work and any medical misfortunes that occur. This is not the same as living in New York City and trying to support your family (or even yourself) on so little money.

Also I an interested in the fact that you completely ignored my question when I asked you about the status quo. My guess - you're older, quite status quo (even if you voted for Obama), and basically ok with how things are going in this country. You've bought FAUX news hook, line and sinker.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #80
118. I would expect the average to include lots of non-urban, cheaper areas
as for "completely ignoring" your question.

I said this about it "I don't think you help to change the status quo when you advance ridiculous arguments like "the mininmum wage should be $15 an hour"."

Just because I call ridiculous arguments ridiculous, does not mean I support the status quo.

BTW, in this urban, or ex-urban area, my mortgage was $215 a month, not including insurance which was a ridiculous $600 a year. $500 a month is kinda pricey.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #118
143. How is $15 an hour a ridiculous argument? In what universe?
That's 30K a year assuming 40 hour work weeks. How is that an outrage?

As far as I'm concerned folks should be guaranteed a home, health care, and job - this business about lowering everyone to poverty while allowing the billionaires to play is the ridiculous argument.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #143
183. in this one
where the minimum wage was $5.85 and hour just four years ago, before it was increased by 23%, and you think another 100% increase is reasonable? That would make a 156% increase from 2007. Lots of people would consider a 156% increase in the minimum wage to be just as outrageous as a 156% increase in the price of gasoline.

And you can bet that the people who currently have good jobs paying $16 an hour would not like to suddenly find themselves making almost minimum wage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #183
190. Reactionary crap.
Well your true colors show. The only people who benefit from your scenario are owners (and I don't mean mom/pop stands that are suffering as much as the rest of us). The very wealthy, who control a good share of the wealth in this country, are the only ones benefiting.

So, that's fine. Hang tight and hope people don't rebel - so far you're winning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #75
145. You can live on less than $24 an hour,
but you can't retire, own your own home, send your kids to college, save up for emergencies, have the occasional modest vacation, pay your own medical bills, etc. All the things people took for granted in the 50s are being taken away from us.

You can say its "ridiculous" and point out that you can technically subsist on less than $24 an hour with two kids, but what's the point of arguing that when it remains obvious that the working and middle classes in the US have both had their standards of living significantly reduced by Reaganomics.

Whichever way you run the math, fifty years ago a family could have a very decent standard of living on one person with a high school diploma's salary. Now the same family could have both parents working three jobs and still be living pay-check to pay-check.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #145
180. well 50 years ago was a long time ago
and they had certain demographic advantages. Back in 1950 with so many more workers than retirees, it was very easy for the workers to support the retirees. The ratio for us is not nearly as favorable. However, if you go back to 1890, the labor force participation rate for men over 65 was 68.3%. By 1990 this had dropped to 17.6% compared to 80.6% for all men in 1970.

As for the good old days. In 1959, the poverty rate was 18.5% and in 1960 in was 18.1% and when I was born it was 17.2%. Then things started to improve (I am thinking there has got to be some causation there). By the next year, it was down to 15.9% and by 1966 it was only 11.8%.

Amazing what a failure that 'war on poverty' was.

Also, in 1970, 60% of American households lived on less than $40,569 in 2001 dollars. That's $51,520 in 2001 dollars according to CPI's inflation calculator. Almost 60% of the population in 1970 living on less than $24 an hour in today's money.

Also, yes, I own my own home, on less than $24,000 a year (okay, I did make $19,704 in 2004 and $24,120 in 2005 and $22,924 in 2006) and then I semi-retired in October 2006 and switched to part time work and made just $11,202 in 2007 the year I turned 45.

Admittedly, I am a freak of nature and most people do not want to live as low to the ground as I do, but they are making choices then and NOT facing some kind of inevitable necessity which cannot be defeated. And it's like I always say "I am America and you can too".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
77. As others have said, on average, people cannot live on minimum wage. Individual mileage may differ.
I can live on minimum wage because my living expenses are so ridiculously low. Personally, I would rather work a minimum wage job that I liked rather than a better paying one where I hated the thought of going to work. Fortunately for me, I can indulge myself in that area. Having not worked in nearly 8 months a minimum job would be good for me now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #77
121. the point is that one of their key findings is ridiculous
"Single Michigan residents without children must earn $12.24 an hour to support themselves"

there was no "average" given there. No "$9.50 is enough in Grayling, but you need $11.75 in Lansing and $14.50 in Kankakee"

Okay, it is apparently a pain in the butt to find state level statistics, as I scan through the first four google results and get nothing, but I am fairly sure that many households in Michigan are living on less than $48,000 a year.

It's one thing to say that "people cannot live on minimum wage" and it is another thing entirely to say "the minimum wage should be $15 an hour" which is what they seem to say here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #121
189. There is NOTHING ridiculous about $15 hr minimum wage
Where I live, considered one of the more inexpensive areas in the country, the living wage calculator tells me that a single parent with one child needs to make $17.00 per hr to meet expenses. You can look up your own area here: http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/states/36/locations

And what if a minimum wage worker - someone without children - has a few extra $$ at the end of the month? Is that so unthinkable? I assure you, no one with a child to care for is going to driving a luxury car or taking extravagant vacations on $15 per hr., and I doubt that the child-free worker is either.

How anyone can look at the inequality in this country, at the wage stagnation over - what is it? the last thirty years or so? - at the decline in living standards among workers, and not understand that there is something radically wrong with the wage structure in this country is beyond me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
78. Well, dogs don't need clothes, school fees, braces, etc., you name it. NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #78
125. neither do single people
and the study claimed that single people need to make $12 an hour to survive. Which kinda makes me wonder how I survived on $13,000 a year while owning two or three dogs and being a member of Kiwanis and paying for high speed internet and a membership on ancestry and subscribing to The Nation. How the heck did I ever pay for this laptop and two desktops, if I needed $24,000 a year just to provide the bear necessities of life?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #125
132. Single people don't need clothes? Maybe you can afford it because you live in Nowheresville, KS
and so it is incredibly cheap to live there.

Most people live in cities, the city I live in has more people than your entire state.

My metro area is the size of multiple states. These areas cost more to live in, where the people are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #132
181. they have my sympathy for that
the only reason I would want to live in an abomination like Houston was so I could make enough money to move the hell out.

But I was once an Oilers fan.

Most people live in cities because the place where I live, population 35,000, is classified as a city.

As for most people living in big cities, my own city is probably considered part of the Kansas City metro area. And actually I originally commuted to Kansas City, and paid the earnings tax, until I got fired in March (this after I had closed on a house in October of the previous year and was about to turn 40). And I had to buy a house in Kansas, because they were just too damned expensive on the Missouri side. Well, at least I thought $57,000 was too much when I could get the same thing in Kansas for $35,000. I didn't even look for houses in KCMO, because I did not want to live in the big city.

As for Michigan, looking at this study from Census 2000 (http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Hal_lm_census_Metropo... ) (so it's kinda dated, yes, but it's what google gave me, and it is perhaps still too early for 2010 to have been compiled) 44.6% of Michiganers lived in Detroit metro area and 7.5% live in Grand Rapids (about 3/4 of a million people). So 52.1% are in your idea of "somewhere" but the rest, almost 50% are living in small, little "nowhere" places, like Bay City (with the Rollers) and Kamalazoo and Battle Creek and Sturgis. I cannot believe all of those places are as high priced as 90210, although even in this town the rent is too damned high. My neighbor pays $550 a month for that little house and little yard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #181
200. LOL - Houston is an "abomination", ha, too funny. What's the matter w/Kansas, indeed.
According to the census, your "city" has a population of 3,000 - soooooo, somebody is off by a factor of ten.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #200
208. "I'm not a doctor
but I play one on TV."

Hiawatha is where I currently pretend to live, having deemed it prudent to keep my real residence hidden from those who might intend me harm.

Hiawatha is in my congressional district and it's a nice little town where I was invited to spend the day by a very pretty girl in the chamber of commerce.

Nice of you to bring up Tommy Frank considering that I usually defend Texas from its detractors here. Nothing personal about Houston, just how I define human habitations by size, here

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/64

"Probably this has been done officially, and some dictionary or geographer might correct me, but this is about how I would define them.
<100 Macbeth
<1000 Hamlet
<5000 Othello, I mean village
<15000 small town
<25000 town, small city
<75000 city
<250000 big city
>250000 city city bang bang, I mean metropolis
>1,000,000 clusterfu$%
>5,000,000 abomination"

Places that are too small, lack services and amenities, but at some point, places that are too large become highly dysfunctional. I'd rather live in a place like Hiawatha and drive to St. Joseph, Lincoln or Topeka for missing amenities than have to live in a place like Houston. I bet there are many Houstonians who agree too, but just cannot find a decent job in a place like Hiawatha.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #208
212. See, I'd rather be eaten by bears....
Edited on Wed Jun-01-11 05:26 PM by Justitia
.....than to live in a rural, unpopulated place.

And hey, you wouldn't have to pretend to live somewhere else to hide out.

I love my big city and Houston is a highly functional, well run, fun & interesting city with lots to offer.

I have lived in other large cities (London, Philadelphia, Dallas, San Antonio) and what I consider a small town (Charlotte, NC).

Big cities, diverse populations, lots going on - love it.

Hubby comes from a "town" of 300 (Nowheresville, Indiana). Love his family, but I would shrivel up & die living in a place like that.

Not to mention, I have actually seen mbrs of his family die from lack of access to nearby, quality medical care.

Houston is home to the largest medical center in the world - 10 mins from my house.

Different strokes for different folks.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OutNow Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
40. Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America
Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America is a book written by Barbara Ehrenreich over 10 years ago. It was also done as a play in 2003. I saw it when the play came to Austin Texas. The book and the play really do a great job showing how minimum wage employees in several job categories try to get by: day by day week by week. It ain't a pretty sight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
67. I almost cried when I read the section of the young Walmart worker
who was holding onto a blouse that met the dress requirements of Walmart, in hopes that it would be reduced in price, so she could afford to purchase it. This is the type of company our local towns are giving incentives to, to build their monster stores in. They promise jobs in return, but what is the value of jobs that leave employees on public assistance & without health insurance?

That was an excellent book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #67
146. I did cry at the section
with the 19 year old maid (I think she was pregnant too) who ate nothing but Doritos for lunch every day.

Nickle and Dimed should be required reading in high school life skills classes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
43. Was this printed in DUH! Magazine?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
44. It took a study to determine this?
You can't make a living on two minimum wages
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
47. No shit, really?
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
48. Oh, you CAN live on it. You just have to cram in a couple dozen
roommates to help share living expenses. There is plenty of room for them on the floor and sofa, folks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinqy Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
53. What the article fails to mention
Is that most minimum wage workers don't try to support themselves on it.

45.4% of people who earn at or below min wage are never married 16-24 year olds (most certainly students working part time and entry level workers).

24.1% are "married, spouse present." In other words, secondary earners.

And that's not even counting multiple job holders so that total earnings would be well above min wage.

Source: Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers 2010
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
msider Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
55. How true.
Before I moved to the new country, I was living in Michigan and working for minimum wage. I (with a master's degree) lived with my parents, and borrowed a car from them to get to work. Basically I only paid for gas and food, but it was still hard to save money. Some weeks I'd work 60 hours, and others I'd work 18. I have no idea how I would have lived on that if I'd also had to pay rent and make a car payment every month.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #55
74. What would have happened to you
if you didn't family to help you?

I am amazed at what I'm reading on this thread...doesn't sound like progressive people at all. Why resent the study? Why resent the people putting together the facts for the mis-informed? Don't they want the Researchers/Writers to have jobs??

This place has really changed. There is a selfish atmosphere of late.

I, too, had the master's degree and had to live with family for a while. I could have been homeless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #74
203. I would still be screwed without my family.
I moved to the UK on a three year contract that ended in September. I lived off of savings for a few months, but I've been living off of charity from my family since then (there are no jobs here either, but I'll run out my visa, because at least I've got great healthcare here).

Regarding the responses in this thread, I really think I've sorted out the difference between Democratic and Republican voters. Democrats vote against their own interests because they think there's a really slim chance that one day they'll be millionaires, so they want to hedge their bets. Republicans are certain in their hearts that they'll one day be millionaires and are just waiting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #203
205. Michael Moore said something
similar back in the 2004 Election....he came to Cincinnati to get people to vote for the Dems (Alas)...Americans can be so dense. They're not going to get rich.

Did you enjoy the UK? At least you got some good health care and a great experience (I hope).

Here in the US today...the 'markets' were expecting 175,000 new jobs in May....and less than 40,000 happened. And here in Dumfukistan (Ohio), they want to get rid of the Minimum Wage for many.

http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/05/31/senate-republican... /

I'm telling you....it's getting sadistic out there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #205
217. I love living in the UK.
Basically I'd live anywhere that would pay me to do work that I enjoy, but given the choice, I'd stay here over going most places. The biggest quality of life change is not having to drive. I know so many people here who don't drive, and I'm not in a big city. For most of the country, the infrastructure is in place to make public transit cheap and convenient, and towns are laid out in a such a way that you can walk to most anything you'd need.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 10:18 PM
Original message
I'm green
with envy. I visited Europe twice when I was in college...decades ago. I loved it....and the transportation system. But I loved the food the most. And the relaxation/quality of life.

I was born in the wrong country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
220. Well, the food here is terrible.
Basically there is English food and Indian/Pakistani food and very little else. When people ask me what I miss about home, apart from my family, the first thing I says is food. Honestly, I would love to have food here that I would have turned my nose up at in the US. I would love to just get ANY Mexican food, for instance. Pizza here is a joke, and as far as American food goes, no one even knows what corn bread is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #220
221. I loved being an expat in London (the transportation is fantastic!), but I ate a LOT of spaghetti!
and cereal.

Yeah, the food thing was a challenge. As much as I walked everywhere (and loved it!), you'd think I'd have lost some weight.
Guess it was the spaghetti every night, LOL

Enjoy your time there, I miss the UK like crazy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #221
227. Yeah, I've gained weight here.
It took me ages to figure out how the hell people ate here. Basically it's red meat and starch, and I do eat loads of pasta.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #220
225. I spent a very short time in England....
all I ate was fish and chips. I loved the malt vinegar. It's weird that the British never learned to cook while the rest of Europe has such great food.

I used to live in N. CA where there is such wonderful Mexican and Chinese food....now I'm in a 'fly over' state and what passes for Chinese and Mexican food is just plain sad. To have an El Faro Burrito....yum.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
57. Obvious study is obvious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
59. Wow, I could have told them that without all the fancy researcher
Minimum wage is for high school kids looking for extra money not a living salary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
61. If we lowered the maximum wage for all Americans ...
I think we could pay a livable wage to all Americans. Call me crazy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OverDone Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
62. Insane what is going on, Just have to look at the numbers
Edited on Tue May-31-11 04:27 PM by OverDone
Yeah this article is just one of many that shows you, there is no way to get ahead. We are current replacing good paying Engineers, Teachers, Scientist, Skilled Trades People, whatever, with theses low paying jobs that you don't even have a chance of living off of.
Sad to see what this country has become.

http://www.dailyjobcuts.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
64. Man, I gotta get me some study money!
I make over twice the minimum wage here in California, and I can't afford to live BY MYSELF!!!

:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. Then maybe you better take
a couple of classes in statistics and data management and then you, too, could be a Researcher. Why in the hell do you resent the people who wrote the study? Because it was a WOMEN'S GROUP???

Is that what is behind all of this animosity of the Study?????

I smell something...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #76
90. I don't care who the fuck put out the study.
"I gotta get me some of that study money" is a very, very common joke about how the money for a given study is obviously wasted because every body and their fucking brother knows that water is wet, the sky is blue, and bacon is delicious.

As to your other question, if you think I hate women...well, I'll be nice...you're wrong.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. And everyone and their brother knows the Earth is flat.
All you have to do is look around. It's obviously not round.

Sometimes the obvious that everybody knows to be true is false. And a study such as this one provides the valuable data of how much it does cost to live on, not that minimum wage is too low.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. Then go get yourself
some of that money.

But if you think everyone would agree w/ this study, you're living in a liberal paradise. Where is that? I'll move there. Cuz out here in 'fly over,' there is much hatred and misinformation about single mothers raising children.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
65. They needed to do a study to figure that out? Even with science on our side
the cons and corporate whores will NEVER believe it. And the media won't report it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Corruption Winz Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
73. The way they get away with minimum wage is that you technically....
won't die with minimum wage. You'll live with it. But, that's not the same thing as living comfortably. Obviously, however, this needs to change and soon. More money and most people make better choices with how they spend it, in my opinion. That helps everyone out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #73
223. You very well MIGHT die.
Edited on Thu Jun-02-11 01:43 AM by Withywindle
Most minimum-wage jobs don't come with health insurance, you sure as hell can't afford it if that's what you're making, and most people with neither insurance nor money will ignore symptoms and hope they go away rather than go to the ER and potentially rack up a huge bill over something that might well turn out to be nothing.


Lots and lots of people have died, are dying right now, and will die in the future from illnesses that could have been treated if (a) caught early (by expensive tests) and (b) treated early (requiring enough disposable income to pay for non-crisis care).

Also, most working-poor people who worry about medical bills if they're diagnosed with something awful? Aren't worried so much for themselves as for loved ones who might step in, and wind up losing their house over someone else's bills.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
electricD Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
79. if the republican business/corporate owners
had their way, we'd all be working for minimum wage. And, the more industry that leaves this country, the lower our wages will become.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
81. Why are we always focusing on how to minimize wages for our populace?
Where is the discussion about Bill Gates making more money than 1/2 the country in any given year? Why do we idolize a few billionaires, let them live like kings, while we put up with so little for everyone else?

That is the study I'd like to see funded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. The study also found that Bill Gates COULD live on his income.
They're still working on whether or not water is wet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrollBuster9090 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
83. I'll wait until that study on Bears Shitting in The Woods comes out before I get excited. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
86. Duhh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
88. Is this a joke?
Are there actually people who think you can feed, clothe and shelter yourself off of minimum wage?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
89. NO SHIT!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
91. Wow - real shocker there.
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
92. I find this unlikely
People can work here illegally for less than minimum wage and survive.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #92
102. Apples and oranges. Illegal aliens have a number of things going on that make this possible. Such as
1. Willingness to accept extremely substandard housing or arrangements where several times the recommended (and legal) number of people live in an apartment or house.

2. In the case of restaurant workers, they get free meals with their employment

3. In the case of farm workers, they get free produce and (crappy) housing with their employment in many circumstances.

4. No medical care. Their medical plan basically is, high tail it back to Mexico to get care or willingly get caught by immigration.

Now, if you think that is OK for your fellow Americans, you really dont belong on this website.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. In California, the clinics and hospitals
Cannot ask for proof of legal status for care, nor can County workers ask for proof of legal status for their care. Food stamps, government-paid insurance and often housing vouchers are available.

So although the bill for the average person buying food at the grocery is less because of how badly people are paid, the tax payers are footing the bill for this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #102
197. Yes yes, illegals get so many handouts
Edited on Wed Jun-01-11 09:44 AM by WatsonT
They live a life of splendor.

And the article said it was impossible to live at a certain wage, not that it was impossible to maintain a certain standard of living at a certain wage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arrowhead2k1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
99. Should have voted for The Rent is Too Damn High Party. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
100. So, what's your point?
People working minimum wage jobs don't contribute to political campaigns, and they certainly can't give multi-million-dollar-a-year jobs to friends and relatives, and to retired politicians.

Therefore minimum wage workers are of no importance, other than to use as cheap labor or to fleece.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
104. A person can live on minimum wage.
iff you are a single individual.

Let's do the math.

7.25 x 2080 hours a year = $15,080.
(Taking state of NC for example.)

Standard taxes:

FICA (4.2%) = $633
Medicare (1.45% = $219
State (6%) minus $3k standard deduction = $724
Fed (10%) minus $9.35k deduction = $573

Total net earnings equal $12,931.

That comes to $1,077 per month.

Typical monthly expenses for a min wager:

Rent and bills $550 (somewhat cheap apartment, no cable or home phone)
Food $250 (eat out more than cook at home)
Transportation $50 (bus pass)
Cell phone $27

Leaves $200 per month for entertainment, clothes.
---------------------------------

You can certainly get by on any given year on this salary. If you're unlucky to have to remain at this position, you'll probably get raises biannually or annually.

You can live on minimum wage. It just wouldn't be the most pleasant thing in the world.

I'm 32 years old and I've made roughly 15K in a year four times. It's doable. Not pleasant but doable.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JAnthony Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #104
112. IF, IF, IF IF.....
..............You live within walking distance of your work, or have a bicycle, and don't mind riding the bike to work on a snowy day.

....You don't have to pay for electricity in your apartment, and don't store milk, juice or any foods in refrigeration.

.....You don't have health insurance costs of $4000 to $8000 a year, depending upon your previous health conditions,


.... You don't have a cavity in your tooth, need $200-$500 to get the tooth fixed, teeth cleaned, or other dental care in that year

.....You don't want to travel on a bus, train, plane, or share costs of going 100 miles away to visit relatives, have Thanksgiving or another holiday with other family more than a few dozen blocks away.


NO, you CANNOT "live" a sensible life on that income, anyone who tries it is doomed to a horrible life!

DUH~!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #112
123. You won't be earning mim wage for ever.
I don't believe anyone is incapable of not finding a higher-wage gig within a few years.

Mim wage is extreme.

Again the argument is not that EVERY person out there is capable of living a year or so on mim wage. Just that it is doable. I've proven it.

f you have extenuating circumstances yeah you're going to struggle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #112
188. Exactly.That "budget" presumes a lot
Edited on Wed Jun-01-11 06:32 AM by theHandpuppet
Like everyone even has access to public transportation. Certainly don't have it where I live, much less places where 550 bucks would cover housing AND bills, because the vast majority of rentals do not include utilities. And yes, I live in a working class neighborhood where many of my neighbors hold minimum wage jobs. They've resorted to cramming extended family and friends into too-small dwellings to get by and sharing one car. All it takes is for one person to get sick and you're so far in the hole you'll never be able to crawl out. And when there's no public transportation you have to use a car and pay over 4.00 a gallon for gas, not to mention insurance, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #104
113. Good gosh, things are cheap in your part of the country. Here in west Texas,
rent on a 454 sq ft apartment is $550 a month, plus about $140 for electric and $50 for water. A combo meal at Jack in the Box is $7 and change, so 14 times a week for lunch and dinner with similar is $100 per week, or $400 per month. No breakfast. AT&T basic cell service $56 per month, cable with internet service $110 per month (no premium channels) or just internet service $75 per month. I'm up to $1271 per month, and I have no money for transportation, clothing, medical (even first aid), entertainment of any sort, not so much as a soft drink from a vending machine, and I'm $2400 a year over your budget.

Sweet deal where you're at.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #113
122. I lived in Austin
I'd say it's considerably more expensive than Amarillo or Odessa.

The best you can do is $550 for a 454 sq ft in Lubbock? I don't believe it.

Why would you be eating out every single day? $400 a month on food? That's obscene. Can you cook?

If you are a mim wager, you don't need cable and internet.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #122
142. I'm in Odessa. Here's some other info for you on apartments:
http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate?a=MSAAvgRentalPric...

The apartments here are $790 on average for a 1 bedroom. The $550 a month units are the ones we own and restrict to senior singles or couples.

Jack in the Box is one of the cheaper places to eat, wouldn't you agree? I just multiplied out the cost to 2 meals a day there or equivalent. Of course, if you're going to cook, you'll need to shop at the grocery store, either involving many small trips, since there is no transportation, or bumming rides from someone with a vehicle to stock up.

Local prices at Albertson's: milk, $5.60 per gallon; bread $3.40 per loaf; cheapest hamburger meat: $3.88 per pound, generic soft drink: $3.80 per 12 pack and so on. 56 meals a month if you never have breakfast and no snacks @ $4 per meal even, is $224 per month, and that still only saves $176 per month. Cable and internet are the cheapest entertainment around - or are you suggesting minimum wagers don't deserve any kind of entertainment at all?

We're talking sustainable living here. No snacks, no entertainment, no clothes, no transportation, no medical expense, not even Pepto Bismol.

Austin real estate has gone up since you were there, apparently:

http://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-austin-rent-t... /

"As of May, 2011, average apartment rent within 10 miles of Austin, TX is $991.

One bedroom apartments in Austin rent for $836 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $1068."

That means an $836 per month one bedroom apartment is a little over $10,000 per year without eating a single bite or having the electricity connected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #142
173. Again my scenario is for a single individual
In that instance, a mim wager is not bounded to any locale. Certainly he/she would not need to live in Odessa/Midland if they have nothing keeping them there. Obviously from your data they would not fare well at all. So then you move to where the cost of living is commensurate to a mim wager. You move to El Paso, or San Antonio, or Austin.

Here's what I paid when I resided in Austin from 2000-2006:

2000-2001 --> $550 for a studio. I paid through the nose due to the booming economy back then. (Please come back Bill Clinton!)
2002-2004 --> $400 for a studio in West Campus. The price was as such due to proximity to UT.
2004-2005 --> $325 for a large studio by 183/I35 area.
2005-2006 --> $481 for one bedroom in N. Austin by IBM. I got a one month free deal.

Subsequently, I've never paid more than that first $550 per month for any place, including Houston, Charlotte, and NC Triangle. These big cities have tons of cheap outlets via online sites (craigslist for example). You'll most likely be living with roommates but it is what it is.

Matter of fact I've probably averaged less than $450 in the last 5 years. I'm not speculating on whether mim wagers can get by. This is concrete data from my personal life.

Also plumbob, with all due respect your post stated what the average cost of an apt is in Austin. Mim wagers ain't gonna be looking at those spots. They will be placed in the low-rent spectrum, typically in not-the-nicest areas of the city. Austin has a ton of those. Haven't been there in 5 years but I'm sure they've not gone away.

***by the way, those grocery prices in Odessa are highway robbery. What the hell is going on there? Geez.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #173
179. Cost of living in the oilpatch is always higher than most anywhere else.
I actually saved money when I moved to College Station to attend A&M in the early 70s. I was away for 20 years, but inexplicably, like all natives, I someone ended back up here.


Well, you've got to die someplace, right?

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #122
210. HAHAHA! Don't need internet! You're funny. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #113
218. It is unfortunate that cooking at home is impossible
forcing us to eat fast food for every meal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #104
116. not sure where you live but it is impossible where I am from
Edited on Tue May-31-11 08:12 PM by fascisthunter
you need multiple jobs to get by here. Oh, it's not unpleasant, it's below the poverty line. Unpleasant was way too kind of a word to use. If the wealthy had their way, they'd make us live off of less than minimum wage. See how long most people live.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #116
124. Boston is pricey
But it looks like you guys have slightly higher mim wage at 8/hr.

I'm sure you probably would have to be more expedient.

Just curious, how much do you need to get by per month roughly?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #124
149. it depends on the area of Boston
and size of apartment or studio. It also depends on how many people you are willing to live with or should I say, can live with.

There are averages you can look up online... for a studio, single person, average $1200 in Dorchester. A bedroom could run you about $500-$600... it all depends on location and how many room mates you can have in one apartment. And that person probably has to live pay check to pay check... barely any savings at all. Without SS many people will be screwed and have nothing to ever retire on. I hope Americans remember how and who put us into this mess, as we contemplate on how little it costs to survive. I'm sure we could all live in boxes, fed scraps once a day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #104
126. Math is off
by about $2,000 per year.

"7.25 x 2080 hours a year = $15,080."

$7.25 x 1820 (35-hour work week) = $13,195

Take home would be about $200 less per month.

This is bare-bones living:

Rent and bills $550 (somewhat cheap apartment, no cable or home phone)
Food $250 (eat out more than cook at home)
Transportation $50 (bus pass)
Cell phone $27

Leaves $200 per month for entertainment, clothes.

Still, $900 per month would be tough for a single person.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #104
161. The most basic rentals in my area average at the
lowest at $800 a month and up. Insurance of various types that are mandatory eat up more than what's left, let alone paying for utilities, transportation and food. Sorry, I could not live on that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
117. Wait
aren't Republicans and the media trying to convince people that it's hard to live on nearly 19 times ($250,000) minimum wage?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #117
128. We have a WINNER!
This is what needs to be hammered home...! "oh poor us, we can't SURVIVE on $250K a year!" .....Bastards....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #117
134. Actually, isn't it the President that said no tax increases for those making 250K
or less? Wasn't the rational for that that they were having a hard enough time making ends meet without an additional federal tax obligation?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #134
138. Actually,
"Actually, isn't it the President that said no tax increases for those making 250K or less?"

...no. It was less than $200K for an individual.

Still, what exactly does not raising taxes on individuals making less than $200K, which includes minimum wage earners, have to do with arguing that people who make $250K are having a hard time making ends meet?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. I may be wrong (certainly NOT the 1st time) but I thought that the
reasoning behind not raising taxes on a certain category of income earners (200k individual/250k married filing joint) was that they could not afford the tax increase in these times of 'shared sacrifice'. If there is another reason I would be happy to hear it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RT_Fanatic Donating Member (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
120. Mind boggling.
Anyone surprised?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
127. Who the hell needs to spend money on a study to find this out?!?!?!
Talk about crazy.
Well, it may convince some rethugs that the minimum wage needs to be drastically raised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
129. No shit?
Seriously? Some genius finally figured this out?

Shit, I could have told them that years ago :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnetteJacobs Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #129
151. See post #38.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #151
201. yeah, so
an anecdote from a person I don't know. Big deal :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertDiamond Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
130. WOW!!!! THIS IS NEWS!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DesertDiamond Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. And now that I'm done with my sarcasm attack, this is awesome, awesome that a study has actually
been done. It may not be heeded immediately, but it's a step in the right direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
133. Take THAT DLC!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
135. DUH! And you can't survive on eating only rocks. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnetteJacobs Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #135
148. See post #38.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #148
150. #38 must not live in the Northeast and must depend on others to share
Edited on Tue May-31-11 10:38 PM by valerief
expenses. Or was willed property. No one can get shelter, heat, food, taxes, and other necessities on miniwage without being dependent on other people. And those people can always abandon you at will. Like our Congress and many state governors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
canuckledragger Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #150
176. Methinks we have a sock puppet here or something
Edited on Wed Jun-01-11 01:34 AM by canuckledragger
3 exact same posts from AnnetteJacobs propping up "I can do it, why can't you" kind of post..account open since Jun 05th 2010 & only 39 posts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
137. Some of the responses to this OP are pathetic. "Everybody knows that" is not evidence. THIS STUDY IS
and that is the difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #137
153. So this will convince people who have no clue what it is to survive in this economy.
Edited on Tue May-31-11 10:41 PM by valerief
The people who already know the price of survival already know you can't survive on miniwage.

And the people who have no clue won't care a whit that you can't survive on miniwage. Cuz they've got theirs and that's all that matters to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #153
154. What is difficult to get about this? It's Hard evidence vs. Supposition.
Perhaps you like to argue using only supposition. I like empirical research and data behind me when I am making a point. Particularly when arguing on the internet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #154
155. Most people LIVE the hard evidence. Duh. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #155
164. Duh - that doesnt do you any good on an internet discussion - duh
As far as anyone knows, you live in a mansion on your own island in the pacific. You can say whatever you want about your own circumstances, its unproveable.

Here we have an empirical study that is real evidence. Duh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #164
207. As I said, it's to convince people who have no clue that people can't
Edited on Wed Jun-01-11 01:20 PM by valerief
survive on miniwage, because most people already know the price of beans anyway. Duh. Unfortunately, the people who need to be convinced won't give a rat's ass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #137
219. One study, on a subjective subject, from a likely biased group is conclusive?
Sure it is, as long as they give the answer you want.

Had they said the opposite people would be calling the study worthless.

Besides which it is objectively false. People can survive on *less* than minimum wage in this country. They do it all the time, they're called illegal immigrants and they make the news all the time for working here for *less* than minimum wage.

Clearly not all 10-20 million of them have died off. So this study is on its very face incorrect.

Now if they'd specified some standard of living below which they don't consider it acceptable to live that would be different . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
157. Well, not if you live in California....
San Francisco rents, start at 1000 a month and go up.. try fitting that into your budget!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
158. New study (just a few minutes old)...
no shit, Sherlock. (not aimed at the OP but at the headline)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
170. A Modest Proposal from Adopt-A-Billionaire Charity Drive
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
174. Noooo! Really!
Something everyone except Repukes have known for years, if not decades.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
175. Remember - If somone is willing to pay you minimum wage
they're willing to pay you less!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
steelmania75 Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
177. Minimum Wage should be at least 20 bucks. There's no way anyone can live on 7 bucks an hour 40 hour
s a week. At least with 20 you make $160 on a 8 hour work day, and $800 over a 40 hour work week. Critics will say this would hurt businesses, but by putting more money into the pockets of employees to spend. We need a recovery plan for the people in this country, and that starts with a base of a wage people can live on, at least 30 days of vacation so workers can be rested and ready to work, health insurance for every American, and pension plan for when you retire. And here we are worrying about the debt. The debt would be fine if it wasn't for wars, a Medicare plan that wasn't paid for, and Bush tax cuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyFox Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #177
214. And say goodbye to the economy
$160 a 8 hour day x however many employees you have.

That proposal would crush small to medium sized businesses. You would see the death knell of youth unemployment and a permanent unemployed/underemployed class of people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
178. minimum wage is an insult... Americans have been conditioned to accept as the norm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyFox Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #178
213. They're being taught that you should make a career on minimum wage jobs
then demand a living wage instead of improving skills and moving out of those positions.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tripod Donating Member (534 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
184. Oh Shit, I'm screwed!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
185. Why is nobody talking about a living wage?
I feel like I'm eating crazy pills. A living wage would be a huge step toward solving our economic problems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #185
191. They are not talking about it because that is also reactionary -
why not talk about getting rid of capitalism for an economic system that would actually look out for people rather than profits?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yon_Yonson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
192. No .... No .... No .... Tell me it aint so!
I have always believed that if we have to get a minimum wage then you also need to be talking about maximum income! Needless to say but the more you make, the more of a percentile you pay in the form of taxation!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
194. Those wages, I assume, do not include
health care.

Lets keep those tax-breaks for the wealthy in place. They need it and we all know it creates jobs.....
:sarcasm: :yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
195. My assemblyman thinks the minimum wage is too high.
He told me so. :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
196. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
215. From the N.S. Sherlock Research institute
As they say on FARK.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
216. The no shitter award.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
222. Candidate for this year's "You Call This NEWS?" Award
the "To Figure This Out, You Had To Do A Freaking STUDY?" category.

:headbang:
rocktivity
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-11 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
224. Drive-By Truckers - "Working This Job"
http://www.onlylyrics.com/hits.php?grid=5&id=1041850

Workin' this job is a kick in the pants
Workin' this job is like a knife in the back
It ain't gettin' me further than the dump I live in
It ain't gettin' me further than the next paycheck
Workin' this job is like lightin' two fuses
Workin' this job is runnin' out of excuses
It's like a dead-end when a road map is useless
Until I'm dead and there's nothin' to show for my uses

Nobody told me it'd be easy
Or for that matter, it'd be so hard
But it's the livin' and learnin'
It makes the difference
It makes it all worthwhile
It makes it all worthwhile

Workin' this job, there's nothin' left but to hate it
I won't get as far as my daddy made it
It aint gettin' me farther for all my strivin'
In the dead-end I live or the piece of shit I'm drivin'

Nobody told me it'd be easy
Or for that matter, it'd be so hard
But it's the livin' and learnin'
It makes the difference
It makes it all worthwhile
It makes it all worthwhile

Sometimes I dream that I had aimed my life in different ways
But there was nothin' to show me a way to get me outta this place
So I just did what my daddy did before me
Only to find the only door I found was closed to me

Workin' this job, I thought it sucked when I had it
Now it is gone and I'm learnin' what that is
I'm tryin' to hang in to the worst of places
But a family can't live on these fast food wages

Nobody told me it'd be easy
Or for that matter, it'd be so hard
But it's the livin' and learnin'
It makes the difference
It makes it all worthwhile
It makes it all worthwhile

Workin' this job
Workin' this job
Workin' this job
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Nov 26th 2014, 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC