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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 11:49 AM
Original message
New Patterns Restrict Hiring (NYT)
Edited on Sat Mar-06-04 12:46 PM by AP
By LOUIS UCHITELLE

While the economy has been expanding for six months, the nation's employers remain stubbornly reluctant to add jobs in the U.S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/06/business/06HIRE.html

This is a really interesting article. It tries to paint the happiest face on the job numbers by inventing the idea of "just in-time hiring" and pretending there are psychological explanations for why the economy is NOT flowing down wealth to people who work for a living through more jobs at decent wages.

The fact is that employers have no confidence that there is an economic recovery (which isn't going to happen until more economic power does flow down to people who work for a living and until business profits aren't solely due to legislating more profits in the form of weaker labor and environmental protections and lower taxes on big business).
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting quote in here, seeing how all the talking heads keep saying
that outsourcing and off-shoring has little input to this dilemma:

The same dynamic is happening now, but a growing portion of the spending is going abroad, creating jobs in other countries rather than the United States. That is because the value of imported capital goods, measured as a percentage of total expenditures, excluding cars and trucks, rose to just under 40 percent last year from just over 30 percent in 1990 and 15 percent in 1980. Similarly, spending on imported consumer goods and services as a percentage of total outlays stands at 12 percent today, up from 7 percent in 1990 and 4 percent in 1980.

"What we are looking at now is a more extreme version of the early 1990's, when we also experienced a jobless recovery but not as severe as this one," said Edward McKelvey, a senior economist at Goldman, Sachs. "We have no way of knowing when hiring will pick up; we don't have models for what is happening now."

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Other countries are trying to build up middle classes (China, Venezuela,
the EU) while in the US, the rich are trying to put a harness around the middle class and make sure that all the wealth they create flows straight to the top.

This is how the US went into the first Great Depression.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. The old models no longer apply.
The old recovery models many keep trying to use as a yardstick do not factor in the massive outsourcing that has become pervasive only in recent years. The jobless recovery of the early 1990s happened even with little outsourcing and probably is not a valid comparison for what is happening now.
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rfkrocks Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Amen!
It is amazing that the middle class even thinks about voting for the thief-in-chief! The rich classes control all 3 branches of government. Do you think the middle class will wake up? I mean even words like Greenspan gave the other week just disappeared after a few days- such as make rich tax cuts permanent but withhold social security! That was truly class warfare against the middle class on down at its finest-I hope they wake up before the american dream turns into the american scream
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Crachet2004 Donating Member (725 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who would know better if there has been an economic recovery than
business itself? By not adding jobs, business is saying it doesn't believe there has been a recovery, or if there has been some improvement, that it will not last.

Makes sense to me.

All you have to do is look at the price of fuel to see why that might be the case...

And how unstable the Bushwhacker has made many of the major fuel-producing regions around the world.

With supply as tight as it currently is, ANYTHING could drive fuel prices even further through the roof.

Business knows that. Hard to commit to longterm hiring plans with this kind of risk scenario!

For what it's worth, 'just in time hiring' works best in an employee rich environment. That means an ongoing high unemployment rate...which is why business shouldn't be allowed to call the shots!

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. "You know if we hired someone...WORK HARDER!...I'm just saying...
WORK HARDER!...well you know I am already working 60 hours a .....LOOK IF YOU DON'T LIKE HAVING A JOB MAYBE I CAN FIND SOMEONE WHO WOULD.....yes sir.

I am reminded of the documentary on building the Golden Gate bridge. Hundreds of workers would stand just outside the gates hoping to get a job and the ones on the inside were basically told that if they didn't do what they were told there were plenty of replacements available.

Same kinda thing here. Productivity is really high right now because there is no need to hire anyone just get more work out of the ones you already have.

It sounds like a conspiracy theory but "mangement" didn't like the near full employment of the 90's and "workers" making the demands and setting the terms of employment.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. seems like a good time for a refinery fire...
especially if it can be pinned Mr. Al Kayda.
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rfkrocks Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Right on
Subject: Amen!
Message:
It is amazing that the middle class even thinks about voting for the thief-in-chief! The rich classes control all 3 branches of government. Do you think the middle class will wake up? I mean even words like Greenspan gave the other week just disappeared after a few days- such as make rich tax cuts permanent but withhold social security! That was truly class warfare against the middle class on down at its finest-I hope they wake up before the american dream turns into the american scream
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Duck90MPH Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not hiring right now is a brilliant election strategy
What if all the businesses owned by Democrat leaning owners refrained from adding jobs (maybe even have voluntary layoffs until Nov) and really added some stink to the bush job market?

If my boss offered to bench me until then I would buy in. Could something like this work?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Call me when the space shuttle you're riding has landed.
Edited on Sat Mar-06-04 01:19 PM by AP
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Duck90MPH Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Why would it not work?
I could live on unemployment until November and if it insured bush was ousted it would be worth it. No? Why not?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. 90% of liberalism is making sure that economic, political and cultural
power flows down to people who work for a living. Destroying the market for labor isn't the way to achieve that.

Besides, my bullshit detector is going off the scale here.
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Duck90MPH Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. 90% of the liberals I talk to are willing to sacrifice
At least long enough to see bush sent back to his ranch.

Sorry about your detector, my is constantly pegged with half the stuff I read on the internet.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Bush wants more unemployed Americans so that the value of labor decreases
even more.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. And the subtext of this article is that businesses aren't hiring because
the economy isn't getting better.

So, like I said, call me when the shuttle has landed, because I'm wondering what planet you're on if you think businesses would even begin to think about not hiring in order to get Bush out of business, or that firing people to get Bush bad press is even an option.
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Duck90MPH Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I said DEMOCRAT business leaders
If they won't do what's needed to eject bush then they are not Democrats.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Democratic business leaders should be creating as much wealth for the
middle class as possible. Wealth is power -- it's cultural, economic, and political power.

If you want to beat Bush, EMPOWER the people who you know don't agree with his worldview.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. the word is DEMOCRATIC, Duck
nt
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. what kind of business leadres?
There's no such thing as democrat business leaders.

they're Democratic business leaders.

learn it, know it, love it.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. i'd rather see the economy take off like a rocket and Bush elected-
than to see another Great Depression settle in, just to get another Democratic President.

the point is, the repug economic plan ain't gonna work.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. as a brilliant strategy, it's a two-way street.
why couldn't some of the uber-welthy repukes pay hundreds and hundreds of people minimum wage, just to sit in a room until november, just to lower the unemployment numbers?

considering what it would cost them, versus what they have to gain in the next 4 yaers, it would be money well spent on their part.
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