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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:31 AM
Original message
Study: Teenage 'virginity pledges' are ineffective
Source: MSNBC

Study: Teenage 'virginity pledges' are ineffective
Youths who promise abstinence are also less likely to use protection

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."

<snip>

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active and most do well before marriage they don't protect themselves or their partners?"

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28415602 /
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hence the old expression
Virginia - virgin for short but not for long.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. "D'oh." - Teenagers of Every Century of Human History
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 06:48 AM by SpiralHawk
"Only a hypocritical Repubulicon Homelander Wide-Stance, Diaper-Clad, Christo-Taleban, Pretend-Holy Proto-Prude could possibly imagine that Enforced Virginity was going anywhere other than the back seat of a car.

"As far as we Human Beings are concerned, the fascist-freak republicon homelander hypocrites can shut up and sit down."

- Teenagers of Every Century of Human History
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. No big surprise here
Anyone with a brain knows that "abstinence only" education doesn't work. Just ask the Palin family.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
104. And the problems with people like the Palins is that they want everyone
Edited on Tue Dec-30-08 12:33 PM by Ilsa
to handle this the same way they did, but get better results.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. From the Files of: Research So Obvious That It Is Sorely Needed
:crazy:


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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. Another unwelcome result -
how many young women in the heat of a passionate moment think back to dear old dad and the chastity ball? That's got to screw up a few sex lives.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. I thought maybe somebody posted an Onion article!
They needed a study to find this out?
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
114. File this under studies that find that water is wet. n/t
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
121. The study only looked at religious conservative teens
It didn't look at teens as a whole--who by and large are having sex in far greater numbers than those included in this study.

The study basically looks at the effectiveness of a pledge formality within a group of teens who are all raised with the edict that premarital sex is bad.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. May I propose a new DU rule?
Any news about teen virginity pledges being ineffective, which we all know, goes in GD, not LBN.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. For anyone working on this issue
this study appears to address perceived weaknesses in similar earlier studies. It may not be LBN to you, but for anyone interested in getting abstinence only education out of their child's school, information about more refined studies that can be used to rebut the arguments that the studies were flawed is helpful. The news of a new study is less likely to disappear against the general background noise in LBN than in GD.
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Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. Very good point, Ms. Toad!
and now that we have an administration where facts will matter, it is a perfect time to get this data.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
39. Well said.
This is factual evidence (more of it) to back up the claims by those of us who think a more common sense based approach needs to be taken on this issue. The damn Fundies need to see their ridiculous notions on this important issue are, indeed, ridiculous.

Julie
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
69. We are spending MILLIONS of dollars at home and abroad on this TRIPE.
It is dangerous for children.

It is serious.
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rangersmith82 Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #69
112. I'm sorry things will never change
Educate the kids, give them free condoms and send them on their way.

Teenagers are gonna have sex, you can't stop it.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. BREAKING NEWS: Ursine mammals evacuate their bowels in sylvan environments! n/t
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rationalcalgarian Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
33. HA HA HA HA HA
Thanks, IanDB1!!! Got my day started will a good belly laugh!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. If you wanna get laid, you get a job catering for Abstinence Balls. n/t
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. They have those? Darn where were they?
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 08:08 AM by LiberalFighter
If they really want to encourage abstinence they should watch an episode of "Dirtiest Jobs". The guy was learning how to dock sheep and neuter them. Slit the sac, push the balls out, grab them with the teeth and pull. That's right they used their teeth!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. Meanwhile the fundies will deny their girls protection
Believing their girls are not going to have sex.

Why do these puritan assholes think their kids are perfect even when the rest of the world is not?


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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. As long as teens feel they are failures unless they have
boyfriends/girlfriends, there will be the probability that sex will occur. Better to let kids know about condoms and the like than to insist on chastity.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
45. As long as children are born with sexual organs attached to them
and as long as they go through things like "puberty" and have stuff like "hormones" coursing through their veins, there will be the probability that sex will occur.

Hopefully one day, science will find a way to overcome these terrible drawbacks to the human condition.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
61. Unless they have BF/GFs????
How about the raging hormone and sexually active genes that turn on when Humans reach a certain age???? All society aside....there's biology y'know. And no one can do anything about that. Except of course educate young people.

Fundies can pretend all they want we aren't effected by biology like "animals", but we are in the thick of nature and unless you are extraordinary, when nature calls, you listen. Teenagers have sex because, biologically, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!

I say, let'em! Just teach them how to not get pregnant and spread disease. It's called "sex education".
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
77. In my days, 40 years ago,
you were considered a failure if you weren't socially active. Raging hormones had nothing to do with that part--and raging hormones can be kept under control via self-stimulation, which was considered the most horrible thing to do back in the day--why I have yet to figure out.
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Moonwalk Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #61
79. Spot on! Those who gaze back longingly at the good old days of virgins....
Conveniently forget that kids usually got married at a very young age. That there was no sex before marriage was, of course, bogus. The boys had sex with prostitutes or servants, and then got married to girls kept separate and virginal. The girls had no chance at sex before marriage but it wouldn't matter if they did, they were usually married before they hit 18.

If we're not going to keep the kids locked up, and we're not going to marry them to each other before they graduate high school, then they will have sex before marriage. It's really that simple.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #79
115. Bingo
Telling someone to wait until they're 18 is one thing. Telling them to wait until they're 30 is a whole different can of worms.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #61
95. Not to be too picky, but...
Fundies can pretend all they want we aren't effected by biology like "animals", but we are in the thick of nature and unless you are extraordinary, when nature calls, you listen. Teenagers have sex because, biologically, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!

I say, let'em! Just teach them how to not get pregnant and spread disease. It's called "sex education".

...the reason that teenagers are biologically "supposed to" have sex is that they're also "supposed to" get pregnant. People in their late (and maybe even not-so-late) teens are at their most fertile, and it is in the interests of biology for the most children to be born to the healthiest parents who have the best chance of surviving long enough to get those children to a level of self-supporting maturity. Not to mention that teens who get started reproducing early also have the chance to keep doing so, and have many, many children before their fertile years end, thus assuring the survival of their particular genes.

Now, it may not be what the world needs in a time of overpopulation, and it may not be what the individual or society needs in a time where, to have the best chance in life, people need to be educated into their early 20s or beyond but, biologically, people are "supposed to" start having sex as soon as they reach puberty, with pregnancy logically following shortly thereafter. The fact is, as noted before, that in "the old days," girls would be married off as soon as they started menstruating (generally around 13-15 in those days) and would usually give birth to their first child nine or ten months after the wedding.

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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #61
101. or just pull out before you finish
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #101
116. Yeah, right
The pull-out method: Not effective.

For either pregnancy or STD's.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. Early sexualization makes it even MORE likely that they will not "wait"..
Not all that long ago, boys & girls did not routinely "date" until around 16-17..and since they married right out of high school, there was only a short window of "opportunity".and until the 60's most boys did not even have their own car, so "dating" was a different thing altogether.

These days with 7 yr olds wearing sparkly spandex, and going to hip-hop/jazz classes & what's on tv 24-7, it;s no wonder why kids "go steady" at 12...and since people no longer get married at 18-19, there is a vastly stretched out adolescence..

Maybe all the hormone laden foods kids eat, are behind the early development, and the interest in sex at ever-earlier ages.

When I was in 9th grade, not even all the girls needed or wore bras...Try to find a 10 yr old today that way..a few of my friends were devastated to be 14 and not have their periods yet.. One did not have her first one until she was almost 16..

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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
59. Todays fashion style.. women dress like little girls and little girls dress like hookers!
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
66. I don't know if that's true.
It's true that young girls are acting more sexual now, but I've heard many stories from my southern grandparents about how everyone in their rural town started boinking at the age of 12 and were married by 17 or 18. I think sexual behavior is relatively stable over the generations with minor variations from time to time.
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Hayduke Lives Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. I tend to believe that as well.
Human sexual behavior is more a function of biology than culture. There ain't no stopping a youngster's urge to boink...not hell fire nor damnation nor daddy's stern warnings.

Best we can do as adults is arm them with information. The Unitarian church has an amazing sex ed curriculum for youth. It's 20 weeks of in-depth learning about the whole spectrum of human sexuality and sexual health. I've taught it and seen a lot of kids come through the program over the years. Ain't one of 'em got knocked up yet.

I'd love to see a long term study of kids who get comprehensive sexual eduction. My hunch is they fare better than the fundies.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
86. Interesting...
Can you direct me to more info about these classes? Do all UU churches offer them?
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Hayduke Lives Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #86
100. Not all churches offer it, but I think most do.
The program is called 'Our Whole Lives' or OWL for short. Here's some info:

http://www.uua.org/religiouseducation/curricula/ourwhol... /

In our area, our church's program is more established so a few other UU churches send their kids our church. I'm not sure how it may work in your area, but I'm sure any UU church could give you more info.

It's a really fantastic curriculum. I'm more familiar with the middle school and high school programs. I have found them to be very well designed, comprehensive, age appropriate and empowering for the kids. I wish I'd had something like that when I was a lad.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #100
106. Thanks for the info
:yourock:
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #70
117. My high school had a half semester of sex ed.
Hellfire's not the only way to scare someone straight. :scared:
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #66
105. But menarche is beginning sooner. There have been reports on that. nt
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
71. IIRC, teen pregnancy rates were highest in the 1950s
than any other time. Most people don't think of this as a problem in the 50s because these teen girls got married. I personally feel sick when I think about teenagers 'forced' into marriage. A lot of people talk of this as a noble and a good thing. I disagree and am glad that this occurs less frequently now. Although the Palins were a throw back to days of old.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #71
93. They were high back then because there was no birth control to speak of
and since dating was "secretive", lots of sneaky sex went on..and the ones who got caught, ended up forced into marriage..There were a LOT of "7 lb preemies" back then :)

Once the pill came along, and marriage got postponed, it leveled off or perhaps even went down..

and remember too, that single motherhood was about the biggest scandal a person could endure..next to divorce :(

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #71
97. oops a dupe..nt
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:53 PM by SoCalDem
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
109. The real problem: sexual maturity vastly predates emotional and social maturity
These days, kids are reaching puberty at younger ages, yet they lag behind their bodies emotionally, socially, and intellectually. In other words, kids are capable of having kids even before they reach high school, much less adulthood. Their bodies might function like those of adults, but their minds still have years to finish growing.

The best approach to sex education is not "say no to sex or else", but teach kids that sex is an adult behavior that has adult consequences, and then explain in detail what those consequences are--this includes the emotional consequences!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. What clued them in...the STDs or the pregnancies?
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
15. LOL. You think?!
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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Veritas_et_Aequitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. In an unrelated story, bacon delicious. Kittens and puppies make people go "aww".
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. And just when I though nobody gave a f**k anymore..........
Silly me.
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keroro gunsou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
18. this just in...
water is wet
winter is cold

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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. "This is Captain Obvious reporting for MSNBC."
:rofl:
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warpkaurbreach Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. hate to break it to you, but...
ANY kind of sex education is ineffective if kids are conditioned to believe a) sex is frivolous, b) you're cooler if you have a partner, and c) the quicker you grow up the better. look at the united kingdom: it has the most "progressive" sex ed program in europe which begins at around 13/14 and is very condom-centric, in a virtually post-religious country with no *cough* "fundie" influence, yet has the highest teen pregnancy rates in europe. the problem is with an oversexualized, morally bankrupt society that neither abstinence or contraception have a hope in hell of controlling
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
118. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
22. Those who want to remain abstinent don't make a show of it
They just do it. The behavior and the choices are internalized.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. These dummys think that as long as the Hyman is attached they are still pure
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 08:25 AM by LynneSin
I read about this ages ago - girls were getting STD even though they were still 'virgin'. But it turns out Anal Sex doesn't count when it comes to purity so girls were doing that instead to keep their hymen intact.

Sex is sex - doesn't matter which hole is used.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
90. They'll just have oral sex or do it in the butt
and they still get to feel self righteous when they proudly boast they're still virgins.

This is nothing new. This tradition has probably been around since before the days of Roman Empire.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
24. Like Bristol Palin's "virginity pledge?"
:rofl:
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yeah Jessica Simpson took one of those too
And sorry, not buying the Jonas Brothers one either - maybe the youngest one.
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Didn't Britney Spears also say she was going to remain
a virgin until marriage? I think this was around the same time she was chomping gum in support of his chimperial majesty.
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biopowertoday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. Do you/anyone know if she actually took one?
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
111. Obama knew about the futility of such pledges long before this study came out
That is why he supports his daughters' right to choose!
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
26. I have a niece and a nephew (not from the same family)
who were raised with abstinence only education on the part of their parents. My niece ended up pregnant at 20 just months before her 21st birthday. When I asked her why she was not taking birth control she said she did not want to have "that exam" to get the pills. Oy!!!

I have a nephew who got his girlfriend pregnant right as she was entering her senior year in high school. She walked down the graduation aisle very pregnant but she wasn't the only one in her small rural high school. There were other pregnant teens in her class.

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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. It's very good for the religious fundamentalists to keep these kids ignorant and pregnant.
(and financially strapped).
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Thank God my niece has not had another kid yet.
Her son will be four in May. She would like at least one more child but her husband, who came from a VERY dysfunctional home where he basically raised and cared for his younger brothers, does not want another. I have advised her against getting pregnant again without discussing it with her husband.

My nephew has two, a daughter and a son, and he is committed to not having any additional children.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
28. Teen Virgins Are Just Going Through A Phase.
It will pass...
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
29. No Shit. Virginity is a condition that can be cured
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 08:40 AM by Phred42
:banghead:
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. LOL! My husband just said....
..."Damn! Why weren't these pledges around in when I was in high school?"

:rofl:
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
32. They needed a study for that?
That's like a study to show that water is wet.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
35. Well tie me to a fencepost
and paint me surprised.
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Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
37. I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you!
:rofl:
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Lordquinton Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #37
52. Here are your winnings sir.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
38. In other news: Water discovered to be wet.
Details at 11.

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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
40. Names, Phone numbers???
Just kidding... This runs along the same lines as to why "Catholic school" Girls are the ones to date in High School... :spank: :blush: :rofl: :rofl:
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PfcHammer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
41. Aren't these sleazyy pledges just giving permission to give it to
them in the butt?
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
43. Just show teens a video of a woman giving birth and a what happens to a man who abandon's his kid.
That will encourage both safe sex and abstinence at the same time!

Use a condom or become Republican! :D
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
44. Humans are humans alert
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Strathos Donating Member (713 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
46. Seems to me the only reason for "abstinence only" programs
Is for the parents to delude themselves into believing something that is absolutely not true and not gonna happen.

You know the majority of those folks, "conservatives", seem to live so happily in their selective ignorance and seem to be surprised when reality slaps them in the face.

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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. There's also the religious morality angle--good for fundraising and building the congregation.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
48. From the latest issue of "Fucking Obvious"
Next month: Breaking news: The Pope May Be Catholic! Read our thrilling expose!
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
49. Who would have thought that a stupid pledge would lose out to raging hormones...
:eyes:

stupid ass group think mentality pushed upon teens by perverted fathers who fantasized about their daughters, all the while using the guise of fundie religion as their excuse.

fucking weird.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
50. "Sexual abstinence" is the anti-planned parenthood campaign . . .
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 10:14 AM by defendandprotect
This is simply more religious misinformation to confuse youth and

misdirect their attention which should be on protecting themselves --

not making idiotic pledges.


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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. It's a little slice of religious indoctrination, and it shouldn't be taught in public schools,
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 10:28 AM by Heidi
_at all_, in my opinion. Better to teach critical thinking, independent living, reality-based health education (including contraception and how/where to get it). People who have been taught how to think critically and make informed choices _know_ that abstinence is a choice.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. Agree . . . wholeheartedly . . . and we're paying for this nonsense . . .
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. There's sooooooooo much wrong that self-respect and critical-thinking skills could CURE.
Girls giving blow jobs to be "popular" and get boys to "like them," girls actually happy to be pregnant and looking forward to having someone (a baby) in their lives who'll love them. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household (southern Baptist father tempered by a lapsed Catholic, agnostic mother) and it was only when I was 32 years old that I realized I could create choices for myself. What if we taught young people, both male and female, to create _choices_ for themselves, and allow them some autonomy to exercise those choices and accept the consequences for them? I suspect that if we _really_ taught critical thinking skills, kids would make healthier choices overall.

Wild idea, I know.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. Just good sense and a concern for helping youth . . .
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
51. no shit sherlock
This needs a study???
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
53. "The word 'abstinence' sounds like the words 'retirement fund' to the average teen" (nt)
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
54. Heidi
Heidi

No surprising there... The ONLY thing who work, is education, education and then some more education -

And maybe even try to educate the youth how to use a condom and birth control... Because teenagers would always be teenagers...
And maybe one thing that is pretty important.. THe parents have to _be there_ for the kids.. That is very important, if they don't the teen agers would do it their own way....

I have ALWAYS find this Virginity pledges silly, and something that never would work out so very good.. Better to educate them, and give them birth control, then they have to decide for them self, if they want to have sex or not.. And a 16 old boy, and a 16 year old girl would do what all 16 year old kids have been doing for the last millennium or two anyway what they are been teatched..

(And I am saying this as an LDS member!)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.


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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. I agree.
And you need not apologize that English is not your first language. My husband, DUer Call Me Wesley, is Swiss and English is not his first language, either. :pals:
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
98. Heidi
Heidi

If you are been educated, then you have the choice yourself. Have sex or not have sex, but also know what happened if you do.. Education have doing more good than harm even when it came to sexual eduction... I would say, when the time come,(when I get a child then) it would be somewhat difficult to tell him/her what sex is, but I would rather give them the information, then to not give them the education, and they may end up in something they can't handle them selfs.. And as some have pointed out, with some cation, teenagers who is religious tend to be more careful before they do have sex, that and, they might to have some education, of how to handle things too?.. Not just abstinence of sex, but to have it with some care... Like an condom.. Who I understand are little like a bombshell to many who believe that an 16 year old kid, with his hormone blowing can hold himself, or herself into full control.. That is as difficult as stooping the sun rising, or stop the water who is coming down the river every spring..

It is little as an warning, because my grammar are little less than pefect... Ah, you have a husband who are also here on DU ;): Interesting that people have been married by wisting DU ;).

True, the Swiss have 4 languages?.. French, Italian German, and a language I am not so sure about.. And Swiss are smaller than Norway, who just have 3... Bokml, Nynorsk and samisk. It have something with the geography, and history in the country..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.
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Spectral Music Donating Member (349 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
57. "teens who are religious tend to delay having sex,but that has nothing to do with virginity pledges"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20081229/hl_hsn/manyteensdo...

Be careful with this article. The researcher ACTUALLY tested virginity pledgers against other teens (many religious) who delay having sex without the pledge. She did not test virginity pledgers against the total population of teens or against teens more likely to have sex (less religious teens.)

What this study tells me that is that some kids who take those virginity pledges do so under pressure from their parents/church and have no intention of really keeping the pledge OR that some kids who take pledges (like other religious teens) succumb to temptation.

The truth is that religious teens, with or without pledges, tend to delay sex more than the total population of teens and certainly more than non-religious teens. All this study shows is that the pledge itself is not a guarantee against teen sexual behavior. Genuine religiosity DOES seem to have a strong effect on delaying teen sex.

This does not mean that all students shouldn't get sex education; they should. They need to know how to protect themselves if and when they decide to have sex.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #57
72. Did they have all ugly teens in the control group?
:evilgrin:
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Spectral Music Donating Member (349 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #72
94. You bad!
:evilgrin:
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
84. I think that the pledge doesn't work
because kids at that age don't undertand the expectations that go into what pledging a vow entails. They understand pleasing their parents.

I think educated teens tend to avoid behaviors that aren't in their best interests--because they understand the ramifications after being taught what they were---better than kids who aren't taught the ramifications. Religious teens, IMO, stand a far better chance of engaging in behaviors that aren't in their best interests because they weren't taught the ramifications to their lives--they were basically told to "do x because I said so" or "don't do x or you will burn in hell if you do" ---that doesn't teach anything... after a while, the teen will disregard the religious reasoning because they weren't taught what to do when prayer ain't cutting it.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
58. Yet another stellar idea
that can go on the * 'legacy' list.

Yet another rat hole as a tax dollar funnel to the pockets of cronies.
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npk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
60. What ever happened to those trendy chastity belts of the 18th century
I hear those worked quite effectively, in fact, better than any pledge.
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
62. a big DUH! throw condoms at your teenagers n/t
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SomeGuyInEagan Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
63. Well no shit. eom
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
65. Unfortunately people who go to abstinence balls don't read scientific reports
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
67. "Teenage 'virginity pledges' are ineffective"
unlike marriage vows....
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #67
85. LOL! No kidding!
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
73. water is still wet, shockingly.
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
75. Duh!
My parents are very traditional and conservative but all of my sisters and I were enrolled in sex-ed classes.

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
76. That was never going to happen to me in high school
I was much too geeky and nerdy in high school and the girls didn't like me anyway.

That's how you promote abstinence in teens: encourage them to be dorky, geeky and nerdy.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #76
120. Sex?
I'm too busy playing WOW! :o
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
78. The only thing that would work would be scare tactics
About the diseases and about pregnancy.

Young men should hear stories from their elders about child support orders. You'd think that'd give them pause.

But a pledge to a teen, including marriage vows, is hardly going to stand.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
80. What? The paper isn't an effective barrier to sperm? Who knew?n/t
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 01:42 PM by pacoyogi
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
81. Yet another one of those "No Shit, Sherlock!" studies
:eyes:



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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
82. Nothing says you love your kids more than coercing them to make false promises
just to win your favor.

These promise rings are a joke...did Bristol Palin have to give hers back when she did the nasty?
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Moonwalk Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Ouch!
"Nothing says you love your kids more than coercing them to make false promises just to win your favor."

No mercy! Way to go :toast:
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
83. Haven't these same studies been done before with the same results?
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. And they'll probably be done in another 20 years
with the same results...after the fundy shitheads have pushed abstinence only ed on another generation of kids.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
89. Lol what it does it make sex more fun as being "taboo!"
I suppose it can add to the teenage rebel mystique.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
91. When I was a teen in the late 80's, my pledge to lose my virginity
was also ineffective. And in most of my twenties, too.
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MMsteezycheeze Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
92. Teens are going to have pre_marital sex
until the end of time so IMO i think instead of teaching abstinence we should be teaching the proper safety techniques and other berth control options.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
96. Fuck that...!
:evilgrin:

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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #96
103. DUzy!!!!
:rofl: :spray:
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
99. Gasp!! OH NOES !!
I'm shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED!!! :wow:


:freak:
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
102. In other news: rain apparently wet, Pope announces Catholicism, bear discovered shitting in woods...
film at 11.

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
107. Virginity pledge
"I promise not to eat the forbidden fruit."
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
108. Geez. Could have saved them thousands and lots of time
What sane person didn't already know this?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
110. Virginity Pledges Ineffective? Shuuuuuut up! Next, they'll tell us teens ignore curfews and
Edited on Wed Dec-31-08 03:07 PM by No Elephants
laws relating to drugs and alcohol, driving without a license and who knows what all else? I, for one, am stunned. I can only hope the pinky swear is not affected by this plague.
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Zaidinit Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
113. Study: Water is wet nt
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
119. Candidate for this year's "You Call This NEWS?" award
Edited on Thu Jan-01-09 03:53 PM by rocknation
After eight years of George Bush showing how ineffective taking a pledge to protect and defend the Constitution can be, why did they NEED to do a study?

:banghead:
rocknation
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