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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:39 AM
Original message
Lawyer says Senate should not probe Craig
Source: MSNBC - AP

One of Sen. Larry Craigs lawyers said Wednesday the Senate has no business looking into the conduct of one of its own following Craigs guilty plea in connection with an airport mens room sex sting.

An unbroken line of precedents dating back 220 years makes clear the Senate does not consider misdemeanor private conduct to be a fit subject of inquiry, asserted Washington attorney Stan Brand.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17152243 /



What a headline!
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Because it just encourages him?
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well... How about that!
Who'd a thunk -HIS- lawyer would be against it?

:rofl:
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. That's just like James Bopp Jr stating that his client Matt Kelty
didn't violate the law. And then later Kelty is indicted on 7 felony counts and 2 misdemeanor charges. This is the same James Bopp Jr that was involved in the 2000 Florida recount.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. That Headline Is Disgusting! Talk about the Proverbial 10 Ft. Pole!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Actually I have to agree with this
I mean, no one bothered to investigate David Vitters and he was doing something illegal (using prostitutes).

I have no problem with Craig serving in the senate and personally think that the repukes should treat him with the same enthusiasm they did with Vitters.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Absolutely. The Party of Family Values needs everyone to see them for what they are.
The GOP will be stained either way.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. They're not investigating Vitter because he would be replaced with a Dem.
It wouldn't matter if he'd confessed to being Jack the Ripper.

:headbang:
rocknation
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Nah, it's a waste of time and money.
Spend the time and money on the politicization of the DOJ, the christian fundies in the pentagon, the wrong doings of Bush and Cheney, almost anything...there's lots that absolutely screams for an investigation.

Let Craig fade.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Dems aren't wasting ANY time or energy in any of this--it's all GOP.
They're tying themselves in uncomfortable knots, and getting bad headlines. When your enemy wants to hurt himself, you get out of the way and let him.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Oh, but it's the GOP that wants the resignation, investigation, and so on.
The Dems CAN turn to other things and let the GOP slime itself on this one.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. bullshit ..didn't Pelosi say they were looking more closely at ethics? eom
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. Anybody else hear that as a veiled threat?
Maybe the GOP pols will stick forks in each other.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. sort of..look 41 other guys were arrsted prior to Craig..in same airport same thing
he admitted guilt..which is breaking a law..get his ass outta there!

haven't we all seen enough laws the repukes break with no consequences????????

the law is the law..no one is above it..and no senator should be seated in our capitol who has broken the law!

he plea bargined to a misdomeanor..if he hadn't plead it would have been for a higher crime..peeping..


fly
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. FORTY-ONE arrests! No wonder the airport called in reinforcements!
rocknation
:wow:
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. You know, really, a misdemeanor that is unrelated to Senate business
shouldn't necessarily be grounds for expulsion. However, Craig HID this from the Senate and his constituents, when he should have disclosed his arrest--people have a right to know when their elected official is arrested and charged. That was unethical of Larry. Still, I want Larry to stay. I'm enjoying this immensely. The Craig headline kind of tarnishes the GOP debate tonight, IMO.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Yeah, totally unrelated, no precedents at all for investigation.
Why, that would be like spending time and money to investigate a president for, let's say, a b.j. in the Oval Office. No way would a self-respecting Republican (sorry for the oxymoron) go for that.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. ROFLMAO!
Classic headline! :rofl:
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. Yeah, they always tee these up for us!
Too easy.
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StarryNite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. Yeah, I thought he wanted
to be probed!

:rofl:
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. Suddenly the Pervert Douche Bag Party cares about PRECENDENTS?
How conveeeeeeeeenient. Tell it Judges Roberts and Alito, you hypocritical clowns.

.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. packwood must be surprised at this
THE PACKWOOD CASE: THE OVERVIEW; PACKWOOD SAYS HE IS QUITTING AS ETHICS PANEL GIVES EVIDENCE
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
As his colleagues watched grimly, Senator Bob Packwood announced his resignation today, hours after the Ethics Committee released a 10-volume indictment, much of it in his own hand, of his personal and official conduct. But Senator Bob Dole raised the possibility tonight that Senator Packwood would not leave immediately. Mr. Packwood, an Oregon Republican, did not set an effective date for his resignation.
September 8, 1995 Front Page Biography

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/org...
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
15. BET IT LEADS DIRECTLY TO A ROVE VOTE EXTORTION AND CONTROL RING
MY BET IS THAT ROVE AND THE NEO-CHRISTIANS HAVE THE GOODS ON CRAIG AND OTHERS AND DON'T WANT IT EXPOSED
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. O come on, Clinton was impeached for a blow job.
Actually, for lying about a blow job.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
17. Keep this story going, folks! It's bigger than any of the 'thug races right now!
It's on the lips of almost all Americans, and if his lawyer starts fighting now and keeps it up for a few months, we could have another Mark Foley on our hands!
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. LOL! High fives from headline writers everywhere.
The author of "Rings Discovered Around Uranus" is smiling happily somewhere, at the continuation of a revered tradition.
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E-Z-B Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
21. Awesome! Hope it works! I don't want Craig stepping down.
It makes it a more competitive race ;-)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
22. Was "probe" your word choice or Craig's? Snicker LOL!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. Candidate for this month's "You Call This NEWS?" Award
If you value your life, don't EVER feed me a straight line like that!!!

:rofl:
rocknation
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. "An unbroken line of precedents dating back 220 years
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 01:39 PM by rocknation
makes clear the Senate does not consider misdemeanor private conduct to be a fit subject of inquiry, asserted Washington attorney Stan Brand."

Precedents are for ESTABLISHING, counselor--there's a first time for everything! No doubt Mr. Brand will be shocked--SHOCKED!!!--if the Rethugs decide to make an exception out of him!

:headbang:
rocknation
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. What an amazing sequence of do-overs.
FIrst he revises history with his "wide stance" nonsense. Next he pleads guilty and then wants it expunged (it never happened), and he resigns from the Senate and then takes back his resignation. He's running out of things to "do over."
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. Craig Moves to Block Senate Ethics Panel Complaint
Source: The New York Times

Lawyers for Senator Larry E. Craig of Idaho delivered a letter to the Senate ethics committee today asking the committee to reject a complaint relating to his guilty plea in an airport sex sting operation. The move opens a potentially ugly battle between Mr. Craig and the Republican leadership, as Mr. Craig reconsiders his plans to resign from the Senate.

Mr. Craig stunned Washington late yesterday with an announcement through his spokesman that he may return to the Senate despite announcing Saturday my intent to resign from the Senate effective September 30.

His spokesman, Dan Whiting, said Mr. Craig is fighting the ethics and misdemeanor charges and should he be cleared before then, he may, and I emphasize may, not resign.

The lawyers, Stanley M. Brand and Andrew D. Herman of The Brand Group, wrote that there is no precedent for a Senate ethics review of purely personal conduct unrelated to the performance of official Senate duties.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/washington/05cnd-crai...



That's right, Larry, stand up for your rights!
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Where's the "Help Larry Win the FIght against the Republican Leadership" fund information?
I'll donate $1K immediately!
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I pled guilty when i was innocent, I resigned when I meant to stay, i got
married when I was really gay. seems to fit.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Oh, and have you seen his defense strategy?
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 01:39 PM by Lasher
This was purely personal conduct unrelated to the performance of official Senate duties. But he was traveling to the Senate to conduct official business and therefore enjoyed special immunity from detention, as provided by the Constitution for members of Congress.
:rofl:
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. Talk About A FlipFlopper....
He makes alot of bad decisions. What about your support for the war Larry? What about your stance on pro-life Larry? What about stem cell research Larry? Where those bad decisions as well?

Isn't it nice to know that we have representatives in office that make bad decisions?
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Go, Larry!
Keep the GOP tied up in knots for the next few month. :D
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Oh this is going to get ugly
It looks more and more like Craig is so deep in the closet he'll do anything to keep up the denial. Of course, that's not terribly hard to understand when you think that virtually everyone Larry Craig called a friend or family would probably have nothing to do with him if he 'fessed up.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. on the face of it, I agree with him in several respects....
I mean, the ethics panel complaint has to do with his personal conduct, not his professional ethics, and I'm not sure I like the idea of judging his personal conduct in that context. If he was cruising a public toilet for sexual partners, well, that's unsavory, but lots of people are apparently put into the position of having few other alternatives because of the social stigma that men like Senator Craig himself have attached to gay sexuality. That makes him a hypocrite, and it also makes him a victim of his own politics, but does it make him unethical? Unethical in a context that justifies professional censure or removal from office?

I'm not ready to join the Taliban simply to seek revenge on a republican senator who needed to find a partner to get off with.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Isn't hypocrisy unethical, at least on this scale?
I believe this fits into the Senate Ethics Manual's prohibition of "...improper conduct which may reflect upon the Senate."
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. what exactly was the "improper conduct...?"
Seeking gay sex? Recruiting a sex partner in a public place? (And don't straight folks seek sexual partners in public places too? How can Craig's offense be separated from the gayness of it?) Committing a misdemeanor? All of the above? Just getting caught?

Who was harmed?
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Illegally seeking sex in a public restroom = improper conduct.
Don't try to make this out to be the same as two people meeting for drinks down at the Blue Oyster, because it's not. And he did not commit a misdemeanor. He committed a felony and pled down to a misdemeanor.

He has set himself up as (hetro) 'amily values'champion, and has supported legislation that is hostile to GLBT interests. That's where the hypocrisy comes in and so the gayness should not be downplayed.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. And I think that can (and should) be separated from sexual orientation
I believe the most serious charge he pleaded to was, "Interference With Privacy". And I think that can (and should) be separated from sexual orientation by simply changing the location--

Imagine had he been charged with Interference With Privacy while simply standing outside someone's bedroom window, then ask the same question: 'Who was harmed?'
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Yeah, you have a point
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 01:52 PM by Kagemusha
What's "unforgivable" is being caught while gay and the leadership's been going around Iowa saying how they purged teh gay from the Senate the moment they discovered it. Having gayness un-purged will not look good.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. This is going to hurt Democrats in the long run
I think Arlen Specter took a quick look at lefty blogs and realized that most of the left was on Craig's side, so there really isn't any reason for Republicans to do anything. If this gets dragged out very long, the worst thing that will happen is the left will go on record in adding toilet sex to the list of things we need to be tolerant of. Democratic candidates will be in the delightful position of having to debate toilet sex, while figuring out how to appease the gay and civil rights communities. Meet wedge issue 2008.

Yeah, this is just great. :eyes:

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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. This could be viewed as discrimination, and
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 01:44 PM by closeupready
he should defend himself. :evilgrin: (I'm being facetious, of course)
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Go Craig! Go repuke leadership!
Hit 'im! Hit 'im!
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Give me a C, give me an R, give me an A-I-G!!!!!!
GOOOOOO LARRY!
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. Yay!
Now this thing can drag out as I'd hope it would!
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. Maybe a few calls of encouragement would keep Larry fighting
202-224-2752

You can email him from here: http://craig.senate.gov/contact.cfm
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eringer Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. Show your support on Hannity.com
Hannity has a polling question on his new-fangled whether Craig should run for re-election. Is that Hannity showing his support or what! Hannity loves the spin that Craig was set up. Craig is Hannity's hero. I say yes to the polling question and promise to donate generously to the democrat that runs against Craig.
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pepperbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
50. I agree! They shouldn't probe him....
...without dinner and a movie first.

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
52. I discount all lawyers' statements about their own clients...
...or opposition clients. This is wishful thinking, not breaking news.
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
53. Craig seeks dismissal of ethics case
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 03:30 PM by brooklynite
Source: AP

WASHINGTON - Sen. Larry Craig sought the dismissal of a Senate ethics committee complaint on Wednesday and relayed word that he will resign his seat only if he fails to withdraw a guilty plea stemming from an airport men's room sex sting by Sept. 30.

"He said he is going to try and get the case in Minnesota dismissed," said Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Senate Republican leader, telling reporters he had heard from the Idaho lawmaker earlier in the day.

McConnell spoke several hours after Craig's lawyers appealed to the ethics committee to dismiss the complaint against him, saying it stemmed merely from personal conduct, and did not relate to his official duties.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070905/ap_on_go_co/craig_s...



I was framed, I tell ya!

Oh, and I'm still not gay...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Perhaps he can re-enact it for us.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. I think he should.
He pled to a disorderly charge, which is bad behavior in public like drinking in public or urinating in public. He has not done anything that is unethical unless you mean he wasn't forthcoming and didn't volunteer this information right away.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. I read in one of the Minnesota papers
that unless you can prove it was illegal or something like that, once you had plead guilty in the state of Minnesota, you could not take the plea back. So I suppose Craig can't withdraw the charge.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
57. Yep, I thought "Somebody had fun writing that headline."

The jokes make themselves sometimes. :rofl:
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Semper_FiFi Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
58. Senator Craig should count his lucky stars
that he wasn't caught in an MSNBC "To Catch A Predator" sting. At least his "tea-room" activity is not on video for ALL the world to see.

The longer he keeps this story alive the worse it is for his party of hypocrites. I am sure that he and Jeff Gannon can now both sit around and bash all the powers-that-be.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
59. Probe Craig ???
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