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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:18 PM
Original message
BUSH in Iraq now...Made surprise visit...
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 12:22 PM by PaDUer
On Faux news now..
My husband just came and asked me if I knew where he was today...Told him Tex..he said no, is on the news now...You know he went there because Hillary is there..What a puke!

Edit for link..
http://www.foxnews.com /
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. 1st campaign stop
You've got to admit...political genius. Faux, et al will be falling all over themselves with Bush-love over this.
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L.A.dweller Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Yup. They are comparing this to Lincoln
visiting Confederate troops and Reagen at the Berlin Wall.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
113. Yep, have to make a name for himself...
however, when it's all said and done, he's going down in history as a total jerk, and don't think people will forget..They can have the jerk at all the photo-ops and whatever, but in every country, they know the truth of what a fu*kup he is and what he's done to innocents and mankind worldwide while he's in prison along with the rest of the goons.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
218. Fucking, spare me.
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #218
248. No Vet's benefits, but you can have extra gravy.
* will get his money back from the free turkey he shelled out. You still get billed for meals if you are hospitalized for injuries incurred during the war.

Bend over and have some turkey...
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
233. G DUHbya is no Abraham Lincoln.
Nor is the war on Iraq the moral equivilant of the American civil war.

About the only similarity between then and now is that the country was and is in a mess thanks largely to controversial Supreme Court decisions.

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Adamocrat Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
98. He's such a coward!
He's a wimp just like his dad. All secrecy and lies. All spin and PR. He has NO GUTS. He's a WIMP!
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
112. Exactly.
This stunt has Karl Rove written all over it.
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SteveG Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #112
225. Hillery was already there, he had no choice
With Hillery there, what choice did he have, staying put in Crawford, while that minion of Satan (te he) Senator Clinton was putting herself on the line to visit and celebrate Thanksgiving with the troops...emphasised what a total chickenhawk he is. Yet by having his hand forced, he looks impotent and indecisive. This was a no win situation for him.....
Thank you Hillary!!!!!!!
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jerryster Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #112
232. I absolutely agree (n/t)
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
114. And next he'll be visiting the wounded troops
whose dinner today will be a new IV unit, and then he'll have a slice of pumpkin pie with all the families who will never have another Thanksgiving with their son, father, daughter, brother, sister, because they were killed in this useless war.

Screw you, Bush.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
200. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #200
212. I'm as calm as a balmy day in summer...
but W. is still a warmongering, chicken-shit coward, but then, some things never change!
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jerryster Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
231. Agree
It's unquestionably a Rove move. The guy is a sleazeball, but I wish we had someone half as smart on our side.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do you think he'd announce his visit to a war zone?
Actually, I really can't fault him for not announcing ahead of time. I wouldn't expect a target as big as him to give his enemies a chance to plan.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Jealous
He had to go because Hillary's there..He needed another photo-op..He's a disgrace..
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impeach the gop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Damn right
he's a coward and a pussy
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Yet he won't honor the dead comming home!!!
GI's should all turn their backs on him.

He doesn't deserve a salute.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
68. Soldiers should ARREST him. He's a traitor and a deserter.
NT!

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Big_Mike Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
183. While the man may not (ever) deserve a salute
the position he fills does.

It is the same thing regarding a salute to any superior. It is respect to the RANK, never the person holding it.

When I served, it helped me many times to remember that when I was reporting to a total idiot who was only concerned about his carreer, not the soldiers serving under him.

(BTW, I knew this guy was going to be trouble because the first picture he put up in the office was his West Point Ring).
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #183
254. I had to reread your post...
Thought you were referring to monkey boy with a West Point ring but then realized it was total idiot you had to report to.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. I would have to agree
Hillary offering support to our troops on thanksgiving while * is extending deployments and activating more reservists.


It's not that Sen. Clinton was in Afghanistan, It's that she was getting press coverage on a day that entire generations of families were gathered around their TV's watching the parade.

Rove probably stroked out! I can't imagine a single non-political reason for him to be there.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. freeps creaming their jeans..lol
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RadioFlyer Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
135. Just heard on CBS
that this was planned a few months ago when he was in Asia. as someone said upthread, you can't fault the security measures. Any president would take the same precautions.
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agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #135
237. You just never know,
When the donkeys and their carts might show up.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
44. "War zone"?? Oh, no...please call it the "mission accomplished" zone.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
63. Hehe...you have a point there...
.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. It's nothing but a 4th Quarter desperation play
trying to stay equal with Hillary...what a fucking maroon Bush is :eyes:
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. could be that hillary found out he was going there, and went there first..
who knows. 8^)
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I'll bet
he'll be back before the sun sets in Texas.

So the fuck what he's in Iraq. Like the military likes him anymore than we do. He'll have selected personal to greet and hug him, not the ones who hate his fucking guts. May he rots when he goes to hell.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Very unlikely that Hillary knew
he was going there. MUCH more likely that Rove planned this trip AFTER learning that Hillary would be in Iraq
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
121. you're probably right. at least she's going there for more than 2 hours.
and visiting Afghanistan as well, if memory serves.
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Crawford, the Turkey has landed...
No one else is covering it but Fox. I hope Karl Rove is sitting in front of his multi-bank TV station choking on his turkey.

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. on CNN International now n/t
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. CNN has it now..nt
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
65. puke
CNN is on a real Bush love-fest. I can't imagine that even Faux could be more fawning right now.

A campaign stunt, nothing more. A pathetic hanger-on because Hillary is over there. Just nauseating.

The only thing of interest is Walt Rogers of CNN right now. When he was first embedded he was Mr. War, all afire to extol the troops and he obviously was lovin' the invasion. His reporting lately, especially today, seems rather pessimistic. No doubt he'll be called back to the states by CNN, stat, for not following the Company line.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #65
78. Tired old platitudes and bs....
nothing new... could be a set on the pig ranch.
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
101. "Bush eats turkey in Baghdad layover"
That's how the fair and balanced media should report it.

How many liberated IWaqis were in that cheering horde?
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monobrau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #101
130. 2.5 hours
The fucking networks are being good whores today. I am fucking disgusted.
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jerryster Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
230. coverage
Sorry, but I've seen reports on it on every channel I've surfed.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. shocked
but then again, not. Bet there is another memo about troops not talking to the press.

score one for Bush*
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. Faux and others were covering W's T-day meal all morning
"Funny" how Faux got the "scoop", yes?


"I will be a uniter" - G W Bush
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Faux is the only one who knows that he's on his way back home
at the moment.

Faux said that their Jim Engle was the only TV reporter to go with him.

What a joke.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Damn right its a joke.
He touches his Bruno Magli's on the run(a)way, and heads back to a golf game. :puke:



"Freedom is messy" - Rummy
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Pale_Rider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bush has been out-Clintoned ....
... and now needs to save face! Hah! What the Democratic leadership should do is now forced Bush to make appearances everywhere. Take Bush off the campaign trail. Make him cancel fund-raising. Put well-known Democrats in photo-ops shots that will drive Rove crazy!
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. just heard
he's all ready on the plane for texas....fucking chicken...

This will backfire on him. Once the troops find out that he's gone before they even knew he was there.

Great move KKkarl.
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Pale_Rider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
126. Clinton and Reed are on their war tour ...
... visited troops in Afghanistan for Thanksgiving and on their way to Iraq. I guess Bush forgot about those troops in Afghanistan.


Bush serving himself up!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #126
202. another thread tells how they held up fifty guys trying to leave and get
back through the roads before the bombs planted there
go off. They were HOT, HOT, HOT with anger over this.
Having to wait for Air Force Chickenshit One to leave
and putting their lives at risk to do it. If there are
any deaths by roadside implanted bombs today in Baghdad
it would be worth checking out who was killed and if
they were among the fifty held up.

Those fifty guys will carp to fifty more and that
fifty will carp to fifty more. 2.5 hours? Please.
It will blow up in his drunken little face.

Was I the only one who saw the fear on his face and
thought he had a few before showing up to lean on the
bar-, the lecturn to warble about how WE aren't going
to run away?
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #126
234. Geez!!! Bush in an Army jacket.
It's about as disgusting as his "Top Gun" photo op on the USS Abraham Lincoln.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Bill Clionton should go to England
imagine the contrast b/w his reception there and Bush's.
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
85. yes
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. Being reported on CNN however, they don't know anything.
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 12:33 PM by Cleita
Says he is extraordinarily intrepid. He is moving around on a helicopter so is in great danger. Jeez, gimme a break. He hasn't met with any troops except a few in the airport.

Isn't this the closest he got to a war? Oh, I forgot he announced the war was over.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Great danger..
Look what they did when he went to the queen's place..This guy is an embarrassment to all everywhere he goes..
Don't worry about him being in great danger..look how he scadaddled around on 911...that says it all.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. maybe they just flew a look-a-like in there. why would he risk going
to iraq when he didn't feel safe in london?
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sneaking off To Baghdad
to have turkey with Hillary -
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. And out of there...
He was on the ground for two hours then hauled his sorry ass the hell out. Just long enough for a photo-op and the usual Faux News adulation.

Serve the little shit a big bowl of pretzels for Thansgiving...
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. He'd run like hell
if anything went down today...
And of course, he has his special Fox reporter with him..Fox knew..
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. No Turkey in Crawford this Thanksgiving?
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. just Pickles...
Guess he didn't want to be w/ her..
CNN saying it's a "big deal" whenever a high ranking official shows up such as * or Rummy...What the hell do they consider Hillary and the other guy?
May he rot in hell..
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
127. oh, there's a turkey in crawford
he'll be a little later for dinner tho, ctfu! ;-)
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lefty_mcduff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. Flame me at will - but I think this is a brilliant move
by Rove and Co. Last minute announcement (due to security - appears that he's not doing it for publicity) and 'selfless' act. Very, very shrewd. As much as I detest the guy, I think he managed to pull off a good one here.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. You're Probably Right - Looks To Me Like He Chased After
Hillary Rodham Clinton
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. You mean like "Mission Accomplished"?
These stunts always seem so wow at first and then, after everyone realizes how fake they are, backfire it their face.
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
145. Exactly.
And that's just how this is going to end up too-Bush playing soldier while real soldiers are getting killed.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
241. Maybe the mindless public has forgotten about "mission accomplished"
It won't be long before they forget everything about the reasons this asshole started this war. He really does have a mindless, memoryless, boob tube population to manipulate. People have a twisted perspective on the hidden agenda for this war like they did for the first Iraq War.

If I wasnt' a recipient of the shit coming down on this country for what Bush is doing I'd sit back and laugh at the US publics stupidity. Those who refuse to look at the facts of what is going on need to pay for their primitive patriotism.

And they will when tens of thousands of mentally and physically wounded young people return to the US. Many will be drug addicts that will further fuel crime, many will lose it do some violent act when they realize nobody gave or gives a shit, others still will be on disability.

Most people don't realize that approximately 158,000 GIs from the first Gulf war are on disability.


America really deserves this, but I don't.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. He's probably in the California desert with a movie set
of Iraq in the background. Wag the war.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. Did anyone else notice the stories when you click on the
Fox news link? One story is that the French now think they were wrong about Iraq. The basis for this assertion is that there are books on this subject being sold in France. Why do I think that some one is paying for these books to be written and then buying them up in bulk? Why do wonder why there are no results of polls being included in the story? Why do I believe that many Fox watchers will accept this story as fact?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Nuts, this desperate act by a pathetically desperate little man is as
transparent as a plate glass window. I bet that they just freaked to find out that Hillary Clinton was going to Iraq. I can just here Karl squeaking out in a high soprano voice "You gotta go, I don't care what you think, you gotta go. You want to keep pretending that you're in charge here, you better show up in that damn sand dune or else you'll be looking for somewhere else to squat after the next election. Get your damn bags packed, NOW."
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. I'm hoping your confusing shrewd with desperate.
As political moves go, it seems a bit frantic, extreme and reckless.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. I'm sorry, but most people will see this as a defensive political move...
...on the part of Coke-N-Smoke and his handlers. These people don't make a move to go anywhere unless they announce it in their usual obnoxious fashion well before they go. And the last place they wanted to have to go was the Middle East in the middle of the "mission accomplished" zone...they have to know that he's become pretty unpopular among the troops, particularly the National Guard.

Nope, the more I think about this, the more confident I feel that they're responding to a brilliant political move by Hillary and her tease about the possibility of running in 2008. That tells me that the Bushies are getting increasingly more nervous about the 2004 election (if they ever get held) because of the struggling war effort, and the flailing economy. If I were a hunter using a turkey-call, this couldn't have worked any better.
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brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
72. My immediate reaction...
once I realized this wasn't a joke...was that this was a reactive endeavor by Rove to try and keep his boy afloat. I don't think Karl's all that confident that *'s a shoe-in in 2004 anymore. Two and a half hours "in country" does not a leader make though...and I like the idea that they're having to scramble in reaction to the public discussions surrounding their failures.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
53. You are right.
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 01:09 PM by Timefortruth
he has taken so much heat for treating veterans like sh*t; dishonoring the war dead, ignoring the wounded that this will keep him above the fray for six months or more.

It was brilliant, no doubt about it. No one will even notice that there isnt substance. After all who really cares if a soldier who lost a limb in Iraq doesnt get to see a doctor for months? The brave and fearless leader snuck into an airport in cover of darkness, had his picture taken then left. What a leader!
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
79. This was nothing but blatant PR spurred by Hillary's visit
he wouldn't have done it otherwise
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
83. I saw it your way when I first heard of it
but when I found out he only stayed a couple hours I thought it made it look like a cheap visit, done reluctantly. A real man would have had the balls to stay and talk to the soldiers until they said all they needed or wanted to say. And a real man would have stayed so that the soldiers could get on camera and send greetings home to their families. He is nothing more than a gutless wonder and a self-serving brat.
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coralrf Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
102. Last minute notice..
no way to organize a protest. No need to confront your obvious distain for the whole thing by giving it a one night stand. The majority of Americans will see this not as clever but as unnecessary and a bit childish, as it is. There is no reason not to tell the world of your plans if you are the POTUS and the president has set another precedent and not a good one. This was childish and certainly done to allow him to get in and out if Iraq without confronting difficulty. Wolfowitz damn near got zapped, the UN has lost high ranking figures and I think in the end this childish cowardly act will be seen as such. Remember the trip to Nebraska right after 9/11? This is the same coward. He does not give a shit if the troops have to face danger but he sure as shit isnt going to do it. Rove will exhaust his spin here. Hillary let the folks know she was going and gave them what they needed to prepare an attack on her if that was their plan. In a sense Hillary said bring em on and Bush hid. How can you see this as clever?

Watch what the press is forced to do with this. Bush is an interminable coward and I cannot see the media trying after this groaner to defend him.

There was nothing imaginative or creative here. It was just a secret..and Bush will be fighting the secrecy issue soon. I see this as another Rovian goof..like many in the past.

This shit will ,in the end, not fly. It never has. Rove is too STUPID to see that. Rove will never admit that the only weapon he has in outmoded and soon to blow up in his face.
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Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
137. Brilliant My Ass Bush Is Pulling His Own Dick Here...Not Shrewd Just Crude
Is my blow torch burning your ass yet mcduff? You're fucking 17 holes short of a course on this one.

And fuck your idea about security v publicity. Bush does EVERYTHING for publicity.

I think Bush just pulled the wool over your one good eye. Is it sticky?
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #137
146. He's obviously just another rube
right? and whether you like it or not, Bush will succeed in pulling wool over a lot of eyes with this PR move.
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Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #146
155. Bush is a fraud. Stop believing that people have bought this shit.
Corporate media is fucking spinning their wheels off. Waving a fucking flag in Iraq is great propaganda but people can't afford to buy diapers and that is the reality.

Bush is fucking beyond lost.
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ldf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
211. not doing it for publicity?
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 08:16 PM by ldf
did he not take a fox news reporter with him? of course it is for publicity. plus with fox, he'll get nothing but fawning praise. this will show up in his campaign comercials.

edit to correct punctuation
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:25 PM
Original message
Deleted - Dupe
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 09:26 PM by Tinoire
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #211
217. Not just the Fox reporter but there was a leak to Free Republic
with a 2 hour tease until Fox broke the news but they had an inside lead:

President Bush is eating in my undisclosed location

Posted on 11/27/2003 7:37 AM PST by ChiefKujo

President Bush secretly landed an hour ago and is currently eating Thanksgiving dinner at my undisclosed location. Anticipate a press release after he takes off.

ChiefKujo



Admin moderator bumps mysteriously at 9:17 AM PST
To: ChiefKujo

BUMP!!!

41 posted on 11/27/2003 9:17 AM PST by Admin Moderator



Next post is:

Way cool...just announced on Fox.


and then

Hillary has just been upstaged hehehehehehe


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1029949/posts
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. Will he give his "Ich bin ein Baghdader" speech?
Why the secrecy? Maybe he and Saddam will tangle in a Celebrity Deathmatch. Mano e Mano. Let's get ready to ruuumble!
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
255. Bush slips into, out of Iraq safely
1st visit by a U.S. president was done to boost troops' morale, demonstrate improved security.

Isn't that a contradiction?? Bush slips in and out safely under secrecy to say that security in Iraq is good? If security is tops shouldn't anyone be able to enter the country without worrying about being attacked? At least if he had the security that he had for the British trip he wouldn't have anything to worry about. And considering there are how many US troops in Iraq? Wouldn't they be guilt ridden if the chimp had been injured or killed while they were occupying the country?

I was surprised to see this article in the Indianapolis Star considering how conservative it is.

THE REASON FOR SECRECY. To prove that their security is working in Iraq.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
30. How Much Did This Political Trip Cost - 10 Million?
eom
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Good Question
KKK Karl says it was worth every million
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
34. Probably a lookalike
n/t
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
41. This will accomplish something for PR, no doubt.
But it was so pathetically cowardly that it is genuinely meaningless. Now he can say he was there, but its like saying you were in Chicago yesterday because you changed planes there. Its true, but why say it?


How will the troops feel about this? It seems so silly.

What time was it there when he arrived, and left shortly thereafter?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
43. Jeez!
I can't believe the propoganda

The Commander-in-Chief came and put himself in harm's way.... a big morale booster... :puke:



What I want to see is Bush being driven around in an open HumVee.

Brilliant move on his part for the Right Wing but how obscene. Couldn't get a photo op in the UK so he went to Iraq.

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SEAburb Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
45. Operation: Iron Election PR
Time for football.
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flama Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
46. Think I just lost my apetite
Thanks for the news, though. It's more important to stay informed than to eat way too much today.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Want to lose your lunch? Read this:
Without hinting of the enormous surprise to come, Iraq's U.S. civil administrator Paul Bremer told the soldiers he was supposed to read the president's Thanksgiving proclamation to them but would instead defer to the most senior person on the premises.

At that point, Bush emerged wearing a military jacket and loud cheering began. "I was just looking for a warm meal somewhere," Bush said. "Thanks for inviting me to dinner ... I can't think of a finer group of folks to have Thanksgiving dinner with than you all."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/27/international/27WIRE-...
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. 3 hours in country. Reporters sworn to secrecy
From start to finish, Bush's trip took about 30 hours, 27 of them spent in the air. Accompanying him were a handful of top aides, a contingent of U.S. Secret Service agents and a small group of reporters, all sworn to secrecy.


I thought that they had been sworn in from 9-11? :shrug:
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baby_bear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. You got that right, Mika. Reporters sworn to secrecy since 9/11.
And here's another snip from that emetic NYTimes article:

"We did not charge hundreds of miles through the heart of Iraq, pay a bitter cost of casualties, defeat a ruthless dictator and liberate 25 million people only to retreat before a band of thugs and assassins," the U.S. president said to a standing ovation.

"We will prevail. We will win because our cause is just. We will win because we will stay on the offensive," Bush declared.


Well, he's offensive, all right.

s_m




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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
76. An obscene act but perfectly choreographed n/t
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
120. Thanks for inviting him to dinner??
that SOB doesn't get invites..He pushes his way allover because he's playing the pres., and the only way he's greeted anywhere is by select-invites..I'd puke in his face! Oh, can't forget those campaign stops where he's taking megabucks/plate..They've got a scam going from here to hell and back again!
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nismochick Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #120
197. geez
I don't think he was trying to "outshine" Hillary. I think it was a gesture of goodwill during the holidays. Boy, some of you are really bitter about this.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #197
250. why should we believe anything he says?
He is a known pathological liar.
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TexasPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
48. there' s no way this was a last minute thing
too much involved in getting the president out of the country... too many t's to cross.

I think its a good move - it's smart. Dont "misunderestimate" bush* - this guy is not a pushover. Going and having Thanksgiving with the troops in Iraq is a good thing - its good for the troops morale - and that's a good thing period. Those are our boys over there - and if this makes em feel better then i'm all for it.

Now, the fact that he had to sneak in, only stayed 2 hours, never left the airport, and booked it before the news broke - well, it's going to highlight the fact that Iraq may be a lot of things but safe isnt one of them.

Let's hope that Bush* spends next Thanksgiving, and every Thanksgiving going forward, in Crawford.
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lefty_mcduff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. I agree.
(see my post from above). We can never underestimate Bush and Co. This will play *very* well on TV - not just Faux - it's breaking on all the networks. They're playing it up that Bush risked a great deal by flying into a hot zone (they're rehasing the SAM attack on the DHL plane from the weekend). All sounds very Bruce Willis (puke) ballsy. We can wail and gnash our teeth about how pathetic this is, but Bush scored some major points here. It's quite different that the aircraft carrier fiasco (where there was NO danger at all) - there actually was some danger here. It's high time that dems realize exactly what we're up against and act accordingly.
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Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #58
148. Stop The BullShit For Bush
"Bush scored some major points here" WTF does this mean? And the shit about "there actually was some danger here. It's high time that dems realize exactly what we're up against and act accordingly." WTF does that mean?

Bush=Major Points and Bush=Up Against Danger

You sound like the fat cheerleader on the other side asking fans to feel sorry. FUCK YOU.

Bush didn't score any fucking points and if he is in danger well fuck him. He asked for it.

You really have an stench about you that makes me shake my head. No it isn't the Carolina Herrera I'm sure you're not wearing it is something just not so lovely.
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
49. where hilary goes, i go first
he must feel some sort of threat coming from her if he had to beat her to it.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #49
71. I thought Hillary was in Afghanistan?
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #71
115. i dont know where she is now
but she is going to go to iraq- announced the same time the afghanistan trip was announced.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
50. CNN mentioned Nixon's visit to Vietnam in 1969
I'm sure that's a comparison the Bush mob would rather not emphasize.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
80. How long was Nixon in VietNam
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
52. hows he gonna make it home now that people know hes there?
"and White House officials went to extraordinary lengths to keep the trip a secret, fearing its disclosure would prompt terrorist attempts to kill him."
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Because he left before the new got out.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. would look pretty bad to have the
people of Iraq insist on their democracy, huh?

the toppling of the newly installed dick-tater would appear as a "terrist" act :evilgrin:
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. A real man woulda spent more time with the troops, even go up to Mogsul
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 01:12 PM by opihimoimoi
eat some bird with the local folk. Stay a couple of days. Thats what a reeal man woulda done.

The woosey neo cons will luv this 2 hour shit cause thats what their wimpy asses woulda done.

And he would pitched in looking for the WMD and also the LMD.(Leaders of Mass Destruction)

Come to think of it: Bush himself is a Leader of Mass Destruction. Only diff is he got people to rebuild and pay for the distruction he causes.
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
55. This is a good idea...
FOR ME TO POOP ON!

Seriously, I bet Chimpy is crapping in his pants from fear right now.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
56. The Rovian truth comes out.
Soldiers always admire any companions that share risks with them. So this is a calculated move to get support from the troops.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
57. The Rovian truth comes out.
Soldiers always admire any companions that share risks with them. So this is a calculated move to get support from the troops.
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
236. Risks?!?
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 11:07 PM by latebloomer
I would think it would backfire if you're talking about risks. Surely a badly demoralized and beleaguered group of soldiers would be very upset and pissed that he just pretended to put his ass on the line for thirty seconds and then hightailed it out to safety. What percentage of the troops there actually got a chance to see his sorry mug?
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imax2268 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
60. I wonder
how much this trip is going to cost us...?

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Panda1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
141. The cost was my first thought
How much are WE shelling out for this waste of our money? 2 hours in a hangar at the Baghdad Airport, with hand picked loyal Merkin soldiers, photo ops galore, back in Crawford by sundown. Fucker.
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drb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
62. I wonder if they could hear his ass whistling as the plane landed?
nt
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dand Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
66. Embarrasing little bastard,
skulks into Iraq like he skulked into London, the only time he speaks is in front of the military, they have to listen and salute.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
67. Political Stunt.
A clever one, but a political stunt nonetheless. Using troops as props.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
69. if his handlers know what is good for him,
he'll avoid the al-Rasheed hotel tonight. :eyes:
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joe1991 Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
70. David Assman is so giddy he's drooling.
He can't believe King George took time out of screwing America to do a drive-by of Iraq.

This is a Karl Rove engineered publicity stunt.
Shrub's poll numbers must really be low.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
73. Are you guys listening to the soldiers cheer him?@!
As an old soldier, I am so sad! How blind can they be those poor young men and women?

OMG.
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Paschall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #73
152. French media of course ran the footage of the turkey in Baghdad
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 03:39 PM by Paschall
...this evening. But also a long report on one American unit outside the capital. One trooper, a French-speaking African immigrant, got interviewed extensively (no doubt because of the language). He said morale was not good now that the rains have started.

"We're losing soldiers every week... I don't know if I have the right to tell you this," he said, "but this morning one of our soldiers tried to kill himself. He may be dead now for all I know."

:-(
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #152
172. Argh... They, of course, didn't interview that soldier on US News
I just watched about 5 of them (Fox news likes to run those little message snippets every few minutes). The Fox news soldiers exude confidence in their country and mission! It is so sad to see!

Have you seen this documentary? http://www.cndp.fr/tice/teledoc/dossiers/dossier_fusill...
Madfloridian exposed me to it and I'm dying to see it. Have you any idea how I can get a copy of it?

Peace :hi:
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LastTime2BeFree Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
165. Not too much you can do if they cheer him
Anything that you could say or do against the soldiers would be a backlash. Let them cheer.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #165
174. That's the worst part of it
that there's nothing you can do.

Welcome to DU btw :toast:
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LastTime2BeFree Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #174
184. Thanks - been here a while
We can do one thing...elect someone else to visit the troops.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #73
204. Yup they are cheering their AWOL commander in chief
and we are expected to "support the troops" and if we do not, well then we, that is WE, the dissenters, are attacking the troops! Somehow that is very very bad and is considered a sin beyond all sins.

We are supposed to support the troops no matter how much they CHEER for Bush! Why? Why? because we are fed the meme that they, the troops who CHEER for 'Bush, are "defending" us and our country! Therfore they are unassailable and we are traitors!

That there is really no threat to anyone invading our country is beside the point--"defending" our country, even though it's policies are barbaric, is , indeed, very commendable and is expected.

There are some on DU who cannot seem to get this straight and are conflicted--the troops are cheering Bush for Christ's sake.

The are CHEERING Bush!

Does that not make at least some who are capable of seeing through the hype, on DU angry? It certainly makes me angry and I think that anger is justified. I do not think I must support the troops who CHEER Bush!



The godamm troops are CHEERING the warmonger Bush for christ's sake!

What else are we to assume other than that these troops love and adore Bush and agree with him and his politics and are willing to kill anyone, anywhere,using whatever means they see fit, on anyone including children and babies, if Bush tells them they are the enemy and commands them to do so in order to expand empire ?

They are CHEERING Bush, for christ's sake!

They are supporting a fascist, serial killer and murderer of innocent human beings.

How much leeway are we going to give these cheering troops in the face of this evidence and be willing to take being called traitors because we cannot "support the cheering troops"?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #204
219. I'm afraid we're going to have to give an awful lot- as much as we can
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 09:36 PM by Tinoire
because I've noticed an awful lot of DUers have sons, brothers, sisters, nephews over there and I know how much it hurts them when we say something without thinking. You must know there are some damn good kids over there. Hell, I could have been over there. Irate Citizen, one of our finest and most liberal DUers is headed over there soon and we have to think of them...

I hate that cheering- it GALLS me to no end but I try to put myself in their shoes. They don't know 1/10th of the things we do and most have been so brain-washed and indoctrinated that their reaction is so normal- so human for soldiers.

Also, consider that they were hand-picked. The Army doesn't just send anyone to meet politicians... imagine how much they scrutinized who would get to meet Bush. This photo op was too important to let any unhappy soldiers attend.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #219
251. sure there are
Edited on Fri Nov-28-03 10:50 AM by Marianne
there are lots of DU'ers who have lots of things--do I shut up because I will hurt their feelings? It hurts MY feelings to see these troops cheering for Bush. Do I count? The truth hurts--the troops were cheering Bush madly--I voiced my angst and wondered how I could possibly support that and hate Bush at the same time.

I am sorry if I offended anyone on DU who has someone serving Bush and I appear to be tactless.

Those troops offended me greatly too.

They are not deaf, blind and dumb and certainly old enough to understand what and who they are cheering. I am sorry, I cannot fall for the meme to "support these troops" I send them my tax money and need not approve of this behavior for the sake of avoiding hurting someone's feelings who posts here.

Report me to the mods if I am such a thorn in the side for telling the truth and for pointing out the very large elephant in the living room.

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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #251
256. It is more than that
When US troops are involved in atrocities that should not be occuring.
When US troops kidnap Iraqi citizens because they are related to suspects.
When US troops stand by and allow looters to pillage museums and buildings but will protect anything that is oil related.
When US troops arrest Iraqi citizens for crimes committed and I am sure that they don't know what the laws are in Iraq.
When US troops interrogate prisoners that end up dying.
When US troops invade homes in the middle of the night and destroy their belongings in the process of questioning the residents.

That is just the beginning.

And those are the tactics used by the Nazis during WWII.
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jason_sanchez Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #73
226. Where can I find a video clip of the cheering?
Sorry, I missed the TV footage. Where is it available? I didn't see it on CNN. Thanks.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #226
229. There's something here
http://news.yahoo.com/iraq under audio/video

and I'll bet if you have the fortitude to go to Fox you'll find it... Or the re-elect Bush page?

Be warned, it really will make you ill.
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #229
247. They are ORDERED to cheer by the officers.
(Either that or they tought * was choking on a turkey bone.) Those guys feel used by the Chimp. Secret's out and if you read any of the soldiers message boards it's painfully obvious.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #247
252. What message boards?
if there is someplace that says they are ordered to cheer wildly that I can access, then I will apologize to anyone who I may have offended by being upset and venting about it.
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joe1991 Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
74. And the Academy Award goes to ....
Karl Rove!!

jeebus, the tape is on now.

could this be any more staged??
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
75. Astounding, PaDuer - MY husband just did the same thing.
He asked "do you know where Codpiece One is today?" And I guessed the same thing you did.

UNBELIEVABLE! We now have it officially: This man knows NO SHAME.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
81. Bet they set this up when Bremer was in town.
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TexasPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. According to the NYTimes article
(linked above) this has been in the works for 5 or 6 weeks.

You know...
that's just about the time they realized they weren't going to be able to use the carrier landing piece

they needed a photo-op to replace it, and this was a good one

however, having just seen the video, i'd have to say they overplayed the speech. it should have been shorter, focused more on the troops and been a little less formal. all that 'and we have to talk about so and so being free' stuff makes people switch back to Favre.

They're missing Hughes and company. They really need some better communications people - even though this one is a home run on edit, it could have been a 500ft play of the day.

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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
82. Have any photos been shown?
Photos that would prove he was in Iraq?
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Jane Eyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #82
92. Showing the tape now
Did I hear some boos in the audience? Mostly white audience, at that.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
84. Karl Rove is a fucking genius.
That's all I really have to say.
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msanger Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. as smart as landing on the Lincoln
Just wait till tomorrow, when 50 soldiers are killed. But its a small price to pay for another Photo-op.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #90
147. Exactly! But 50 ANGRY soldiers over Bush's visit in this story today
50 troops pissed AWOL's departure put them in danger-read this


But other soldiers grew angry that their departure from the airport was delayed for an hour, while they waited for Air Force One to depart. Finding the door barred, about 50 troops got into a shouting match with the soldier blocking their exit. The streets of Baghdad were too dangerous to delay their departure any longer, they shouted.

"Do you have any idea how many IEDs are on this road?" one soldier shouted, referring to improvised explosive devices or roadside bombs. "I have to get back to my base. I don't want to lose a soldier because the president wants us to sit here."

http://highmarkfunds.stockpoint.com/highmarkfunds/newsp...


With thanks to Rmpalmer! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #147
235. Does he do nothing without Kinda-sleezy-Rice?
Bush served mashed potatoes in the chow line for 10 minutes and then said he had to leave. He ducked into a meeting with National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice, Bremer, Sanchez and four members of the Iraqi Governing Council. Then he was off.

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coralrf Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. A Genius?
The man that thought up the Aircraft Carrier fiasco? The guy that flopped on the debate tape fiasco?

Give credit where it is due and Rove aint do it. Let this thing play out in the press...secrecy..message controlwhy not tell the troops..why such a quick flush..and so on. Faux can do as they like but look around...
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msanger Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
86. is he wearing his flight suit?
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. His eyes were glazed and red
Looked bad, imo.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
88. Acting bold and courageous after it's easy and safe
Typical. This is how Bush bluffed his way out of Vietnam. Pretend you're a top gun flyboy -- as long as you're safe at home in Texas and jump ship as soon as things get hot.

Watching Bush glad-handing with the troops on TV. They look a lot less enthusiastic than the Bushbots on FOX who're trying to convince us this dope is god.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
89. CNN Seems Kinda, How You Say, Skeptical?
I was shocked. Funny how they present themselves when they don't get prepped with Rove's talking points beforehand.
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Jane Eyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #89
99. Reporter compared him to LBJ and Nixon
I can't remember the reporter's name, but he was an older guy. Mentioned that LBJ did the same thing in Nam, and look how that turned out. Miles Davis then chimed in that Nixon did the same thing. They also talked about how Bush probably did it because he wanted to upstage Hillary and had been getting criticized for not attending military funerals. Not a bad job from the CNN hacks...these must be the second string filling in on the holiday, probably no promotions for them in the CNN Corporation!
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IggleDoer Donating Member (601 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
91. Done in secrecy in the dark of night ...
... much like the energy and medicare bills
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coralrf Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #91
104. Like a theif in the night
they do it to keep from being caught..so did Bush. The man was afraid of an attack on him. That is all that need be said.
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mix68 Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #104
214. yes indeed
a thief in the night

this will not go over well among Iraqis
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #91
190. and any other
thing they want done so the people might miss it..Gee, think they qualify for sneaky rats!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
94. F*cking weasel!!!
Its MY stepson that will be facing HELL over there and the Son of a Bitch ONCE AGAIN uses the Murders of OUR children as a photo op..and he is the One who is Murdering our kids over there! Hes their enemy!! Just like he stood on the ground at the WTC and photo opped on the dead bodies of everyone from 9/11...
He is so low he cant GET any lower....
God damn Bush and God DAMN his administration.
The ONLY terrorist in the world is Bush and this administration.
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Catt03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
96. well
It is difficult to imagine that anyone would put the country at risk with a political/public relations move like this. That plane could have been shot down and we would have Cheney for president. What an irresponsible trick.

Also, talking to the 101st airborn in a mess hall is not visiting the troops in Iraq. What about the guys who are out in the field, sleeping in fox holes and abandoned buildings? A few hundred elite troops cheering you on is not courage...it is ignorant.

Furthermore, someone should really stop Bush from playing "dress up" in military garb, particularly with his backgound.

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #96
244. The little chickenshit never left the hanger.
Probably didn't see a single Iraqi. Too bad he came on such short notice. I'm sure the grateful Iraqi people would have prepared a special welcome for him -- particularly families of Iraqi war dead.

You would think that after the Mission Accomplished fiasco, Rove would have learned his lesson. I think he just stepped into another cow pie.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
97. Some comments from the Dark Side- Warning- Obscene content
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 02:09 PM by Tinoire


Which one's the turkey? :shrug:


  • first he lands on a flight deck and then he goes into hostile fire zone. this is a president unlike any in a long time, maybe ever.

  • President Bush has a noteworthy difference with most politicians: he thinks of others in spite of hazards to himself. It is a great day to be a Republican!

  • True.. No more accusations of cowardous.

  • This news brought tears to my eyes. God bless this wonderful man.
    (lots of teary eyed people in that thread)

  • I am so proud today of our president and ever so grateful that Al Gore was not allowed to steal Florida in 2000!
    This man is a true leader in every positive sense of the word!


  • Talked to my bro this morning in Baghdad... Mentioned something about special VIPs coming to visit but wouldn't tell me any more. Whodda thunk it, way to go GW!! This is really going to get the libs into a tizzy.

  • I LOVE THIS PRESIDENT! GOD BLESS GEORGE AND LAURA TODAY AND ALWAYS!

  • This is a wonderful thing for Bush to do. He proves he IS compassionate and cares about our troops. God Bless the troops, The President, and God Bless America!!! By the way, Eleanor Clift from Newsweek is on FOX right now saying "none of this footage had better show up in Bush campaign videos - or the Democraps will protest in a hugh way. TOO BAD!

  • On this day I am thankful that our president has the convictions to honor the men & women in uniform right at the FRONT LINES! This is better than Pecan Pie! ((They've got this thing about pies today... First pumpkin now pecan... Is this a colloquial expression?))

  • The footage will show him serving food to the troops. It will be powerful stuff. ((Yep and sure enough, FOX is GUSHING about how he SERVED the food to the troops :puke:))

  • We have an INCREDIBLE, President. Thank SIR for representing me here and in Iraq!!

  • You should read what those idiots at Democratic Underground are saying. They're practically foaming at the mouth with anger.

    Thank you, Mr. President. Not only did you visit the troops, but you've really screwed up Thanksgiving for a lot of left-wing morons.

  • THIS is so like the man who is our President. HE CARES AND HE SHOWS IT!

    GOD BLESS YOU PRESIDENT BUSH AND GOD BLESS OUR BEAUTIFUL FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH!


  • I hope he was wearing his leather flight jacket! Kerry'll have a hissy fit and Dean will explode!

  • It's shrewd...It's smart...Bush took the utmost care in security and caution, not just for himself, but for the troops who would be a bigger target for terrorists HAD THEY KNOWN A WEEK AHEAD OF TIME LIKE THEY DID WITH THAT SHREWISH PUBLICITY HOUND HITLERY!

  • A quick review of DU shows that they are practically foaming at the mouth (even more so than usual) about this.

    I need a Dramamine and an Alka Selzer after visiting that site. They have a lot of gall accusing conservatives of hate speech when they participate in a site like that. They actually accuse him of cowardice for going in under high security!!

  • God bless George Bush, and damn the 22nd Amendment. We need this guy for about 15 more years......

  • Today is Thanksgiving Day...a day for eating. And you visited DU...a site that's sop filled with hate for everything American that it can turn your stomache? <snip> Fortunately..not all dems are like that. I'm sitting here with the wife who votes dem and we're watching the video of the president adddressing the crowd in Iraq. It brought tears to her eyes to see his warm reception. It did me too.

  • What an AWESOME act of love!
    Happy Thanksgiving
    President George W. Bush!




I had to stop. Couldn't take it anymore. And this of course was brilliantly timed to coincide with everyone's main meal of Thanksgiving for the year. Oh the masters of deceit.

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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. Thanks for taking the edge off my appetite......
:-(
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. I'm sorry. Think I should delete it?
It is kind of depressing to watch people get hooked in like that with a meaningless gesture.

How about Veterans' benefits Mr President? How about combat pay? Hell how about some equipment for the Reservists who are lucky to get Vietnam-era flak jackets? HOW ABOUT SOMETHING MORE REAL than an oppotunstic photo op?

I'm sorry Pfitz :( Look on the bright side, I waded through the filth for you :) until I just couldn't anymore.
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #108
210. If you do, at least leave the picture
Why are so many people around him ignoring him? None look particularly impressed.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #210
220. It's ok...
I alerted on it and the mods left it so it's not over the line.

I think those soldiers with their backs turned are seated and were probably given very strict instructions on how to behave. There are more photos... I'll go wade through the filth to find them for you... My bet is that many of the people in that room are secret servicemen because I noticed the same ones with their backs constantly turned. One even looked like he was frisking a soldier before letting him get too close to Bush.

All their holsters are empty too (the soldiers with holsters that is).
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #210
227. Here are more PICTURES
for those of us who are gluttons for punishment. Note if these JPGs are too large for dial-ups, I'll delete but someone tell me. They're about 23980 bytes each. I have no idea if that's too large or not :shrug: Thanks
























Notice the Secret Service even put tank on their collars. I'd say a good 1/3rd of the people in that room are SS.











You can view the entire slide show here

There's even a video :puke:
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #227
246. Wow, that pic of the SS in BDU is telling
How many of these "soldiers" are actually Secret Service?

I hate the fact that I've come to doubt EVERYTHING that this administration does.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #97
106. PUKE
He has ruined the whole Thanksgiving for the entire nation.
Tommorrow, I am making Thanksgiving Dinner because thats when my kids get here. Therefore, I feel somewhat glad I didnt eat today.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. He totally ruined mine. I just cancelled out on Thanksgiving
with my friend's family. After seeing that, I can't bear the thought of watching her family beam about what a grand and beautiful thing this was. They're nice people but too many Republicans in that family. I can't risk saying something snarky or less than complimentary about that inarticulate frat boy, the Idiot-In-Chief which I once read was Nancy Reagan's nick-name for him.

Peace
& Have a great Thanksgiving with your family & may your kids all stay safe!
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blackcat77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #106
116. He sure wrecked it for me
I was screaming and cussing at the tv and I'm so upset I'm about half-sick from it. He just STOLE the holiday from me as far as I'm concerned.

Every single meaningful occasion is reduced to a publicity stunt.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. I just alerted on my own post. If the result is garbage like #110
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 02:48 PM by Tinoire

I was really mad too but in a very sad and discouraged way. Is there no cheap trick Bush won't pull? Is there no cheap trick your average Republican won't believe?
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #106
157. Hey, he hasn't ruined my Thanksgiving. This whole thing
is a big "so what?" to me.

Presidents do this kind of thing all the time. It's a non-event.

I'm getting ready to have a wee glass of wine and enjoy some Liptauer spread. Bird's in the oven, roasting away juicily.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving, Mari!
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #97
107. Chickenhawk holding a turkey!
Foghorn Leghorn would be proud!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #97
110. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #110
123. So long, farewell, auf widersehen, adieu
:dem:
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #110
142. wow
it would be really nice if a republican came in here and actually made intelligent conversation.
all they are doing is reaffirming our beliefs that republicans are imbeciles- someone should tell this to your master who controls you.
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #97
117. idiots in freeperville
im not foaming at the mouth. i think it is a stupid publicity play that he went there and i think most soldiers over there agree. im sure bush had plenty of security to keep away those soldiers who REALLY wanted to tell them what they thought. good thing they have orders to never speak bad about the president otherwise i dont think he wouldve received a warm welcome.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #97
133. Where did that first one come from?
? Which thread and what #?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #133
140. Locked thread (dupe) but here's the link
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 03:14 PM by Tinoire
post 2


and here's the second link

Somehow I feel dirty for posting the links here which was why I left them out... Urgh... The skin crawls...
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #140
158. Thanks. I want to have a look.
Have a Happy TNXgiving!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #158
175. But remember
don't look behind you when you leave that evil place! You could turn into a pillar of salt.

Be strong my friend! Courage!

Happy Thanksgiving to you! :)
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
100. This Will Enrage The Iraqi Resistance Movement!
The blowback could be extreme.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
105. president numbskull takes a trip
big fuckin deal -- he still let 9-11 happen, he still let osama bin laden get away, he let sadam hussein get away, he's driving the country bankrupt with his deficits, he had to steal an election to get where he is, he has to take away rights from the people to get to stay there, etc need i say more?
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
111. Who cares?
He should have been over there a long time ago. Why is this such a surprise?

Sorry, I know the cable TV news is orgasmic over this, but I really don't think it's any big deal.

It's all part of the campaign.
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. gee you sound like you are foaming at the mouth with anger
you should really get a grip. : :eyes::
/sarcasm off
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #119
131. HA! I dunno. I just don't see it as being any Big Deal.
And I'm glad at least one other person feels the same way. ;-)
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
118. I wonder how the troops enjoyed being used like scenery?
This was NOT about them or their mission or even Thanksgiving. It's about Re-election, pure and simple. Very pukeworthy.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #118
125. They enjoyed it immensely
This is their Commander-In-Chief after all and they have been indoctrinated to worship him. remember you're talking about troops who for the most part call the Iraqis 'rag-heads' & 'sand-niggers' (they have a new term now but I can't remember what it is).

It was their cheering and hollering that really made me sick- their reaction went waaaay beyond polite applause.

These soldiers were hand-picked but I don't know how huge of a difference it would have made if they hadn't been.

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drscm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
124. Do you suppose he is going to a campaign fundraiser in Saudi Arabia?
This man does nothing unless there are big bucks in it for him somewhere.
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Manix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
128. This lying coward makes me want to puke!!
nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #128
136. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #136
143. real campaigning pres in action
wow- what a real hero- going over there to campaign and try to make good with the soldiers who hate him.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #136
151. Here just for you - 50 soldiers Dems don't want to see dead
over a stupid publicity stunt. If your President really cares about the troops, do you think he can get the Reservists some decent equipment so they don't have to rely on Vietnam-era flack jackets?

Maybe for Christmas he could return and distribute that equipment instead of scurrying in and out in under 2 hours like the rat he is.


Bush appearance stuns troops gathered at airport for Thanksgiving

<snip>

But other soldiers grew angry that their departure from the airport was delayed for an hour, while they waited for Air Force One to depart. Finding the door barred, about 50 troops got into a shouting match with the soldier blocking their exit. The streets of Baghdad were too dangerous to delay their departure any longer, they shouted.

"Do you have any idea how many IEDs are on this road?" one soldier shouted, referring to improvised explosive devices or roadside bombs. "I have to get back to my base. I don't want to lose a soldier because the president wants us to sit here."

http://highmarkfunds.stockpoint.com/highmarkfunds/newsp...


With thanks to Rmpalmer! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #151
193. He's the same old
fucking bastard that thinks the sun shines out of his ass!--my ass!! He doesn't care about anyone or anything, and as far as holding up those troops so they couldn't get back to their base, he doesn't give a shit! He's NFG!!
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drscm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #136
167. While you wave your f*ing flag for your f*ing leader..
I pray daily that my two nephews return alive from a war that never should have taken place - and which continues unabated to this day.

This man sent our children into harms way to kill the children of another sovreign nation for no reason except revenge. First, it was the non-existent WMDs. Second, it was that we were going to be treated as liberators. Now, it is to fight the terrorists on their own ground, although there was and is no evidence that the terrorists had any connection to *Bush's daddy's enemy.

If you want to believe what this evil man says is the latest excuse for this unjust "preemptive" war, fine. However, you are the one reflecting a puerile inability to think and reason.

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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #167
169. we are the real patriots
think about it- we are on the positive path to helping change this country- and you republican patriots are on the destructive path.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #167
180. A little late
since you're already up to 399 posts but welcome to DU :toast:

I pray your nephews stay safe!
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #136
182. who ?? a bunch of Right Wing NUTS
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 05:23 PM by number6
"You don't seem to understand that there is this very large and dangerous group of people who if had the chance, would kill you and your family without hesitating".

"Liberals need to know they can be killed." Ann Coulter

"Timy should have Blown up the New York Times Bldg." Ann Coulter


"America Deserved it" Jerry Falwell

"Nuke the State Department" Pat Roberston

Mess with Bush Familie YOUR Dead. Barb "Ma Barker" Bush

Larry King Interview


Pull your head otta your ass !!!!!!!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #136
186. Bush isnt the pResident. and my stepson might die
in Iraq..Bush is a
LYING SACK OF SHIT, ILLEGAL THUG, BASTARD, LOWLIFE , SNIVELLING FRATBOY TOADY, IGNORANT COKEHEAD SLEAZY LIZARD FILTHY WEALTHY PROSTITUTE OF CORPORATIONS AND GREED AND MAY HE ROT IN HELL FOR ETERNITY AND MAY ALL HIS LACKEYS AND CRONIES WHO ARE MURDERING OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS ROT IN HELL FOR ETERNITY...GOD DAMN ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR THE SOB AND GODDAMN HIM AND HIS ADMINISTRATION.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #186
191. I don't know who your candidate is
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 05:56 PM by Tinoire
but your post alone makes me re-think my aversion to ABB.
Sorry for your pain Mari333.

I'm with you 100%. Wish I had writen that because it sums up what I feel for him perfectly- even that last sentence unfortunately.

PM me if you ever need a shoulder ok?
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #136
188. Toumbstoned after one post.
You could have saved yourself the effort if that's the best you could do.
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tedzbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
129. Damn! Score one for the Republicans.
Even though I hate his policies, I am glad he did this because our troops deserve this visit. It shows proper respect for our fighting men and women who have been placed in a hopeless quagmire. Damn Bush! No matter how we slice it, his surprise visit was a smart PR move that will put many of the undecided voters back in the Bush camp (including my 86 year old mother who loved it).
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #129
132. first of all, it is UNBELIEVABLE that a sitting president of the US...
...would be allowed in a hostile war zone. This only goes to prove the lengths the dark side will go to ensure their puppet wins in 2004. Think about it, they are willing to sacrifice their golden goose to be able to further their ends.

Secondly, chimpy has proven sooooooooooo easy to manipulate. His handlers only have to whisper that he's doing the lord's work or some bullshit like that and he can be talked into doing just about anything. Talk about the Peter Principle coming true with a vengance.

Thirdly, and make no mistake, the cabal which selected $hrub and then shepherded him to the white house will stop at NOTHING, repeat NOTHING, to further their nefarious plans and schemes. This means we have to do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to ensure $hrub does not win in 2004.
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Blitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #132
178. ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING
How about some examples of "ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING?" I'm curious about what you mean, exactly.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #178
222. to begin with, let's ditch some of the infighting between the dems...
...secondly, let's start pressuring the press and media to stop giving the repugs a pass on everything. ORGANIZE, ORGANIZE, ORGANIZE.

Thirdly, increase pressure on dem members of congress to fight back and toughen their stance. We're in Iraq because they chose to roll over.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
134. Best move of Bush's presidency
Those calling this an act of shameless political exploitation are both right and wrong.

Exploitation is in the eye of the beholder. So is patriotism.

Bush Amurrica will warm to this trip and gulp it down like another heapin' plateful of holiday food - its perfectly calibrated symbolism, its raw sentimentality. Rationality, remember, isn't driving public support of the Iraq invasion or love of Bush (and never did). Iraq is the ultimate 21st century American spectacle, possible only from a people so tenuously tethered to mediated reality that they will swallow lies transparent to 9/10 of the rest of the planet. Bush is a creature of our culture's medievalism - an almost supernatural presence made flesh for believers in hosannas and hobgoblins.

I see Bush's trip as a vile compact with death: he is sentencing many of those poor slobs stationed illegally in Iraq to die, and he is helping Amurricans to feel good about it. But that is a minority view. To say the least.

Happy Thanksgiving, DUers! Let's be thankful for what's left of democracy and see if we can keep that paltry remainder from being lost, too.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #134
154. "Photo Op Accomplished"
agree with your post. Happy T-day
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
138. The F*cking stunt put some of the troops in danger
Get a load of this.

http://highmarkfunds.stockpoint.com/highmarkfunds/newsp...

But other soldiers grew angry that their departure from the airport was delayed for an hour, while they waited for Air Force One to depart. Finding the door barred, about 50 troops got into a shouting match with the soldier blocking their exit. The streets of Baghdad were too dangerous to delay their departure any longer, they shouted.

"Do you have any idea how many IEDs are on this road?" one soldier shouted, referring to improvised explosive devices or roadside bombs. "I have to get back to my base. I don't want to lose a soldier because the president wants us to sit here."

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #138
153. Lol- My apologies!
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 03:40 PM by Tinoire
I posted it in this thread because I didn't work my way down enough and see your post. Thank God I gave you credit lol ;) Thanks for having posted it in the first place.
Peace
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monobrau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
139. Not all soldiers buying it!
CNN just reported that some of the soldiers are privately commenting that everything isn't love and smiles. Good for them; we have to be grateful for anything that looks beneath the surface of this disgusting Rove production. It's sad to see how freepers and other dim-wits eat this up like a dog lapping vomit off the sidewalk.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
144. Why does he address the troops as "you the Iraqi people"?
Bush's address to the troops is really full of more bu**sh** than usual. Half the time he's looking at the American soldiers but obviously talking to the people of Iraq who "have been terrorized for centuries". And to the troops, he justifies their sacrifice by saying we didn't come this far to back out now. This was the old rationale of last resort during Vietnam: we can't quit because we're not quitters.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
149. He was just there to wear the cute outfit for the ad campaign
That's the problem with playing dress-up, it looked too big for him.
Yet another shark jump, IMO. Only the freeps will buy it.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #149
194. He should be put
back in uniform and put on the frontline since he still has time to do!!
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #149
195. He should be put
back in uniform and put on the frontline since he still has time to do since he likes wearing those uniforms, give him what he wants!!
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peterh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
150. 
Arrives in Baghdad in secrecy and ultra-tight security to give best wishes to a group of hand-picked soldiers and a big neener-neener to his criticswhom are increasing in numberdaily.

This two and half photo-op will be presented to the sheeple (after careful editing and removal of drool) to show that this idiot-in-chief is the consummate warmonger..err..war residenterrwar-time presid.damn, cant type it. Faux will be given the exclusive before copies are widely distributed of a twit arriving and speaking under a charade that is completely devoid of reality. And sadly, fitting for a public equally devoid of reality for the most part.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
156. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #156
160. turning back on soldiers??
i am pretty sure we dont want this war because we dont want innocent soldiers (who joined the military to help actually defend the country) to have to help make bush rich and his ego fed, while they die.
get your facts straight and stop listening to the people that are brainwashing you- republicans dont care about people, and that includes you, soldier.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #160
161. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. Bush's handlers are willing to see thousands of troops killed or maimed...
and tens of thousands of Iraqis killed so that they can control Iraqi oil. Why give him a pass??
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #161
164. you are wrong
that is not true- nowhere in this thread did anyone say anything about fuck the troops or we hate the troops. seriously, i know they would like you to believe that anti war people are anti troops, but we are not- i promise you. my sister is on her way to iraq. she is against the war and so am i. i am absolutely not against the troops.
i am against the president for sending them over there when there was no need.
have there been any WMD found over there? well that was the reasoning for the war. so, now that we know it was a lie, are we going to allow him to wage another war?
i could care less if a republican or a democrat was in office- they just need to do the responsible thing for the citizens of this country while they are in office.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #164
179. Good luck to your sister! Hope she stays safe & sound
Let us know if she ever needs anything... support... letters...

Do you know if anyone is keeping track of DU-related people over there?

Peace
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #179
185. thank you
my parents are flying me home to see her (she has to come to the states to drop her 2 kids off before she leaves)- so we will be able to celebrate christmas early together- which is more than a lot of those poor soldiers over there are able to do.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
159. Once again, Rove proves the pResident is expendable...
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 04:02 PM by Junkdrawer
I guess figureheads are a dime-a-dozen. And martyred figureheads are even more valuable.
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savistocate Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #159
208. Troops B*sh is calling ignorant ..fall-guys.
These posters are NOT. These posters have a keen taste for truth a strong recognition respect for justice .
Only the sadly brain-washed are this disconnected to conclude
the posts are against the troops. This self-serving history] corporate serving aberration cares zero for our military
in combat--while we get LESS security..troops families..less
security as he/they fuel hostilities . Bush & Co are swelling the
profiteering to the max. getting billion
$$dollar contracts; Helliburton Bechtel; all Bush backers.

Being this unaware as your statements reflect, this, Mr. demonstrates howlittle value you give these human lives.
We see individuals you see some symbol reflection of brain-wash fantasies. You are no mainstream yourself.
Grow up excercise some degree of skepticism ..real motivations
that could not be more neon flashing before your eyes.



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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
163. My nana the freeper at turkey dinner
Said "The troops in Iraq must have been so happy to see President Bush" So of course I Couldn't keep my mouth shut and said "I'm sure they would have been happier if they had been at home eating with their families or if that idiot hadn't cut their combat pay, death benefits for their families or danger zone pay" Dead, uncomfortable silence at the table and move on to the next topic. I can't believe I felt good making a 75 year old woman look like a fool.

I see some people get indignant when the media protrays us as "hating" bush. I don't get angry I tell them flat out that they are right I hate the stupid bastard who is ruining this country in record time.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #163
177. Yikes- Sorry for the uncomfortable silence and your own discomfort
Precisely why I skipped out on Thanksgiving dinner today. Your poor grandma... People just don't know- especially the non-internet crowd.
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CSI Willows Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
166. Ads ads ads.....then finally, again, on CNN Bush Coverage!
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 04:30 PM by CSI Willows
God dangit. "First time a US Pres. has traveled to Iraq". They think that this "follow in Hillary's footsteps" can make us forget about his lies and his never welcoming back deceased servicemen? Hell no. Hell No. This stunt ain't changing my mind. And I wish that the troops wouldn't have welcomed him. They should be booing him.

Edit:

Watching the full speeech now. ARMY JACKET!? ARMY JACKET!???? Who the hell does he think he is? Well, apparently he thinks he's not only the president, but a "serviceman" as well.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #166
171. The man is a PHONEY. Where was his courage on 9/11? That was the defining
moment of truth.

The Nation that lives by Photo Ops will surely die by Photo Ops. They are an extension of DELUSION, meant to decieve from the real truth. Bush will be the death of us soon enough.
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moderateindependent Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
168. Don't Miss This Quote From His Trip!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031...

Yahoo news (above) includes a quote from a soldier saying ""He's got to win in '04. No one else can prosecute this war like he can," said Capt. John Morrison of Butler County, Pa.

Remember, just three days ago the President banned reporters from interviewing troops here on American soil during his trip to Ft. Carson (see story here http://moderateindependent.com/v1i15mediaassault.htm ) Now, he let just his one hand-picked person get a pure campaign commercial quote. If the Dem 04 hopefuls don't nail him with this, they don't deserve to win.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
170. The 2 hour coward
This is snooze news, just proves the point of what a chickenshit Bush is.
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sweettater Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #170
173. I can't help but wonder
what the retaliation for this stunt will be.......... :scared:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #173
176. Good question
For once wouldn't it be nice if it didn't involve people losing their lives? I'm so sick of hearing about people getting killed, I wish they would all sit down at the same table and eat some dam turkey together!
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sweettater Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #176
181. I know what you are saying
I don't think the Iraqis are going to take this, as the saying goes, lying down. They are filled with hatred towards bush and his "war" and with him actually putting this feet on Iraqi soil.....I hate to think of the consequences. Look for something "big" in the days to come. They will not let this stand.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
187. cool, will the Great Helmsman also be swimming the Potomac?
this is so damned funny that i cant believe that bush would even try such nonsense.

the best way to support the troops is to get them the hell out of iraq.

anyone think that having bush serve our troops turkey for one day will wipe away the taste from their mouths of having been feed bullshit for two years?
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #187
189. freepers bought it
they sure think he is great for doing this.
it just blows my mind that they dont understand that we are against the war and bush, but not the troops. it blows my mind that they can be fooled into believing whatever is told to them without questioning.
it blows my mind that they think they are supporting the troops by supporting bush.
my mom supports bush "1000 percent" yet wants my sister to get out of the army. WTF is that about??
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CSI Willows Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #189
192. Of course they did
Yeah, that is confusing.

In fact, Freepers not only bought it, they ate it with a side of stuffing for Thanksgiving Dinner!
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #192
196. The freepers also think
Coulter is a she so what does that tell you!? They've got the intelligence of dipshits!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
198. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
199. Gotta get those poll numbers up ya know....
..and can't be out staged by Hillary, 'eh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #199
201. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #201
203. not for long
speak your mind somewhere else.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #203
205. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #205
207. yes
you are. i agree. point taken.
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drscm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #201
206. WWII may have had to happen for you to remain free,
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 06:59 PM by drscm
but you'll be happy to know that *Bush's granddaddy made a fortune financing the Germans that the rest of the nation - including my father and three uncles - was fighting.

I also wish that *Bush had as much concern for the living as he does for the unborn, but that is not politically expedient.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
209. Gag
This ruined my thanksgiving.
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mix68 Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
213. thief in the night
looks cowardly
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davhill Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
215. Like most dictators
Bush does have a flare for the theatrical gesture.
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I left the building Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
216. ????? Why
Why is it that whenever someone post a message that does not agree with all the other voices it gets deleted?

I think this forum is not exactly a "forum" in the true sense of the word which is defined:

"A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation"

I think that any oposing views should be left for debate not just deleted. When the moderators delete messages it makes all look as if they are unable to defend their convictions. It seems that most all here do nothing but call names and consistently attack all opposing veiwpoints.

I thought that democracy was were everyone had a voice? by the people for the people anyone remeber that????
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #216
228. You must remember this is Democratic Underground.
We don't need no stinking freepers. But of course you knew that when you signed up way back when.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #216
242. This website does not exist to appease conservatives
There are many that do. By all means, use them.

I'm holding the door open for you now...
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monobrau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #216
245. I would tend to agree, but...
When someone who joined less than 24 hours ago has to ask that question, I can't help but wonder what brought this banning about. I have made no secret of my disgust with a few democratic heavyweights around here on occasion including our last president and have never been called out or banned. And if you are a freeper, then don't come around with that innocent "Gee what did I do" crap. You know the routine over there.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
221. I truly do not know what to say
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 09:50 PM by Marianne
If the troops support Bush--applaud and adore him and yell their support for Bush, well then, I certainly cannot support the troops. If they are really fighting for Bush and seem to have no difficulty in doing so, then how can I support them?

It is inconsistent to do so. I would like to think they are all innocent pawns, but, if they are cheering and giving such unconditonal support--well hey--that's fine, but do not expect me to "support the troops" who do that. Won't and can't.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
223. When Cheney made the decision to send Bush to Iraq...
he figured it was a win-win situation. If everything goes o.k., it's a great photo-op. If Bush gets whacked...

What's the big deal anyway? Didn't Bush cut the troops hazardous pay because Iraq was no longer a dangerous place?
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
224. They couldn't use the carrier landing for campaign ads, so
they needed a new photo-op.

It was a very adroit political move, though. I'm sure it'll play very well with the cable news and Sunday talk shows.

I can't imagine these sorts of stunts will buoy his numbers once he restarts the draft, of course- but then again, that'll be after the election anyway.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
238. He got great campaign pics without touching his 182 million campaign
war chest funds. WE taxpayers foot the bill for this photos that will no doubt end up in his campaign ads.
How much did this trip cost?
What was the reason for the trip? Moral booster? How do you measure the success of the trip for moral? I want to see the Return On Investment!
If the reason was for a photo-op for his campaign, he should have to pay for it!
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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
239. So, now Bush is willing to fly into a warzone?
Edited on Thu Nov-27-03 11:46 PM by The Night Owl
Sure, now that Bush has the secret service and practically the entire U.S. military protecting him, he is more than willing to fly into a warzone. Of course, when Bush had nothing but his father's influence to protect him, he used that influence to avoid a certain warzone while another man went to war in his place. Ballsy.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #239
249. If you want insight into his courage.
Remember that he couldn't travel around London.
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drscm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
240. Letterman's Take on *Bush in Baghdad: "It was a $1000 a plate."
eom
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shamanstar Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-03 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #240
243. that is HILARIOUS!!!!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
253. Not To Be Shamed Nor Upstaged By An Uppity Senator Clinton....
who stated to the medialast week that she and another democratic senator were flying to Iraq to spend Thanksgiving with the troops. president bush springs into "top secert" action and goes to Bagdad to spend Thanksgiving dinner with the troops. Even the First Lady, his daughters and his parents didn't know he was going to Bagdad as they waited at the table for goerge to carve the turkey. It was such a top secert plan that even Mr Card and the president's sercert service agents were shaken up by his absence at the Crawford celebration feast.

what a farse



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