Billionaire Soros: 'Ousting Bush central focus of my life'

[phrenzy]

       “IT IS THE central focus of my life,” Soros said, his blue eyes settled on an unseen target. The 2004 presidential race, he said in an interview, is “a matter of life and death.”

Soros, who has financed efforts to promote open societies in more than 50 countries around the world, is bringing the fight home, he said. On Monday, he and a partner committed up to $5 million to MoveOn.org, a liberal activist group, bringing to $15.5 million the total of his personal contributions to oust Bush.

Soros believes a “supremacist ideology” guides this White House. He hears echoes in its rhetoric of his childhood in occupied Hungary. “When I hear Bush say, ‘You’re either with us or against us,’ it reminds me of the Germans.” It conjures up memories, he said, of Nazi slogans on the walls, Der Feind Hort mit (“The enemy is listening”): “My experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule have sensitized me,” he said in a soft Hungarian accent.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/991865.asp?0cv=CB10

---

I hope we have our Scaife - Of course, the difference is - this guy doesn't have to MANUFACTURE and distort dirt on Shrub. He just has to be honest.

[The Zanti Regent]

1. GO SOROS GO!

Give Bush the same treatment you gave to John Major!

[Don_G]

2. I Think He's Right

It's hard to argue with a guy that's been through two dictatorships and remembers.

[Born Free]

24. Pleasantly surprised

I saw him on "NOW" with Bill Moyers a few weeks ago and I was hoping he would give to Move-On. He is limited in what he can give directly to any candidate, but he can pour money into organizations like Move-On. However, that doesn't give any of us an excuse not to donate all we can afford to Move-On, the more powerful Move-On becomes the more say we, the people have in politics

[sam sarrha]

65. maybe that is the reasoning behind the hemorrhaging of jobs .. to prevent

the working class from giving money to the DNC campaign. I'm broke.

[FrenchieCat]

3. Thank God....

For "some" Billionaires!

[Hieronymus]

4. You go

George Soros. What a man, to stand up and put his money where his mouth is. Mr. Soros

[Melinda]

5. It's been a hopeful week, and it's only looking up.

This is philanthropy and social activism at its best. Thank you George Soros, thank you on behalf of my children, my friends, our party, our world -- thank you from the bottom of my little liberal heart.

[madrchsod]

6. 5mill

to moveon! now that`s money talks and bullshit walks...

[proud patriot]

7. Be sure to rate the article at the bottom

of the page at the link .

[tedoll78]

8. 17 battleground states.

If ACT is planning to spend $75 million in those states, WOW.

I'm pretty sure that this is more than was spent for Dem GOTV in 2000. If turnout in liberal areas is even a mere 5 or 10% higher than it is in GOP areas, our chances get much, much greater for winning a state.

Soros.. thank you so very very very much!

[RamboLiberal]

9. Sweet - this is great

and recognizes the neocons agenda for what it is. And isn't it sweet that the repukes are crying foul now that we have "good" version of Rupert Murdoch and Dicky Mellon Scaife.

I'm chuckling with irony at the "Soros Doctrine". I like that he is giving to Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, and Clark, imho the guys who have the greatest chance of ousting Bush.

Asked whether he would trade his $7 billion fortune to unseat Bush, Soros opened his mouth. Then he closed it. The proposal hung in the air: Would he become poor to beat Bush?

He said, "If someone guaranteed it."

Most of us don't have $7 billion - but we feel the same. I just hope he puts a lot of that money into a media outlet ala Faux but for real "fair and balanced" news.

Also I see Rove is now scared that Dean will be able to compete by turning down matching funds - so the bastard is planning on raising even more money - he thought the Dem would be impotent after the primaries. I hope Soros gives $300 million or better to organizations like Moveon.org and just blast Whistle-ass out of the water with ads.

[JailBush]

23. Sounds like a cool guy, but one of the candidates he supports is

Gephardt! What's THAT all about???

[mouse7]

79. Gephardt is okay.

To paraphrase Al Sharpton, all the potential Dem nominees are FAR better than the Chimp. Even Holy Joe.

Seems clear Soros will support the eventual nominee. Which of the 11 Soros supports is far less critical than Soros being on board to help the eventual nominee.

[IndependantThinker]

122. Re: Sweet - this is great

Quote-Would he become poor to beat Bush?
Most of us don't have $7 billion - but we feel the same.-Unquote.


-You're definitely not speaking for me. I haven't found anyone yet who I would go penniless for just for them to be in power. Are you going to be better off with no money and Bush out of office? I don't think so. You may not like Bush's politics, which is fine. But I don't feel like any of the Dem candidates are SO much better that I should go broke just to have them in the office.

[hang a left]

124. You really need to read the whole thread. Are you really an

Independent thinker? Really? Where DID you come from, I don't recognize you. You just might be in over your head.

[IndependantThinker]

131. I read the thread, what am I missing?

I am new, so forgive if I'm missing something here. I've been reading the posts and thought I'd put my two cents in.

I do agree with you about Dean. I would hope Dean wins the Demo race, not because I agree with everything he says but because I believe him to be the best alternative to Bush. By alternative, I mean that he isn't "Bush-lite" to take a quote from one of the candidates, though I don't remember who. Probably Dean. But the best way to challenge Bush and the GOP in the ad campaign is to have equal funding. I don't believe in a ceiling in how much a candidate can spend, donors have a right to have their donations count. So Dean was smart to turn down the matching funds so he can compete with Bush if/when he has the Demo nomination.

[hang a left]

133. I am sorry, but I didn't say anything about any presidential

candidate. This thread is about something a whole lot bigger than who is gonna be president.

[IndependantThinker]

137. sounds very sinister!

I read the title "Billionaire Soros: Ousting Bush my central focus in life", or something to that effect. You quoted him as saying he'd go broke if someone guaranteed that Bush is out of office. You also said that "a lot of us feel the same way". I just don't agree with that, and I think its scary that someone does feel that way. How did the Egyptian slaves feel by being penniless just so the pharoahs could have their golden sarcaphages? (sp? - I'm not a good speller, sorry.)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hang a left]

33. Thank you No Labels. Soros associations with people like

Kissinger and the Rothschilds causes me great concern. He has an agenda, and I am not sure that it aligns itself with ours.

[truth2power]

41. Thanks, nolables.

As soon as I clicked on this thread I was trying to remember something I'd read about Soros' agenda.

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but at the same time, I'd sure be grateful if someone more in the know could give more info as to his real agenda.

[mouse7]

77. ummm... "....Soros destroyed the British pound..." Don't think so.

British Pound looks just fine. GBr's economy had been very good for quite a while after 9/92 until the world economy started going downhill at the turn of the Millenium.

Whatever damage the author thinks Soros caused eveidentally was obviously overstated by the author.

[Tinoire]

152. Soros SHATTERED the Bank of England... & now we war & thieve

In 1992 the British pound fell so sharply that Britain was forced to leave the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM). What do you think was behind this famous fall? Yes, you guessed it, professional money! The money in question was the Quantum Fund, run by the renowned speculator George Soros.

He and his analysts had spotted a potential weakness in the ERM. During the weeks before the massive sell-off of the British pound, George Soros was busy exchanging seven billion US dollars for German Deutschemarks.

When the time was right he moved in fast, selling the British pound. As the pound fell the Deutschemark rose, creating huge profits for Soros. As soon as news of this got out the other professionals followed suit. The onslaught was overwhelming and too much for Norman Lamont, the then UK Chancellor of the Exchequer.

In an attempt to halt the slide Lamont resorted to selling some of Britain's gold reserves. He put up interest rates three times during one day, but this was still no match for the professionals.

<snip>

http://www.tradetowin.com/associates/profit_trading/und...


That's because these other financiers have used their talent and capital to do well by doing good -- in troubled times they were the strong hands who turned panic into opportunity. But Soros is different: In recent times of chaos in the global markets, Soros' strong hands always seem to hold a smoking gun. He has profited not by quelling panic, but by promoting it.

Soros is best known as the man who broke the Bank of England. His bear-raid on the British pound in 1992 precipitated the collapse of the European monetary system, and resulted in the transfer of billions of pounds from Her Majesty's Treasury to Soros' coffers. He's said to have done it again in the Asian currency crises of 1996 and 1998.

His failures have been just as spectacular, and just as controversial. During the stock market crash of October 19, 1987, since known as Black Monday, Soros became intensely bearish -- he dumped S&P 500 futures on the opening the following day, thus personally contributing to its aftermath, Terrible Tuesday. Of course, the market recovered later in the day, and never again traded much lower. This year, Soros found technology stocks too hot to handle, and dumped them into the spring's Nasdaq crash -- the Composite Index now stands more than 25% above the panic lows.

<snip>
In the European monetary system crisis of 1992, the Bank of England was struggling to defend sterling's price against the German mark as part of its duties under the decades-old Bretton Woods Agreement. Soros took a very public position that the post-Cold War world had changed thanks to the inflationary effects of Germany's reunification, and that the traditional currency relationships would have to change, too.

He forecasted a chaotic break, and then put the theory of reflexivity to work: He risked billions shorting sterling, driving its price lower. He used financial markets to "affect the so-called fundamentals which they are supposed to reflect." Soros, and other speculators who piled on after him, forced sterling down in such a massive assault that the Bank of England could no longer afford to support it. Finally the Bank cried "uncle" and the monetary system was shattered.

<snip>

http://www.thestreet.com/comment/openbook/1041598.html

[Judi Lynn]

11. Fantastic! He's no Republican!

(snip)

The RNC is not the only group irked by Soros. Fred Wertheimer, president of Democracy 21, which promotes changes in campaign finance , has benefited from Soros’s grants over the years. Soros has backed altering campaign finance, an aide said, donating close to $18 million over the past seven years.
“There’s some irony, given the supporting role he played in helping to end the soft money system,” Wertheimer said. “I’m sorry that Mr. Soros has decided to put so much money into a political effort to defeat a candidate. We will be watchdogging him closely.”
An aide said Soros welcomes the scrutiny. Soros has become as rich as he has, the aide said, because he has a preternatural instinct for a good deal.
Asked whether he would trade his $7 billion fortune to unseat Bush, Soros opened his mouth. Then he closed it. The proposal hung in the air: Would he become poor to beat Bush?
He said: “If someone guaranteed it.” (snip/...)

I was startled seeing the photo MSNBC opted to run with the article, and wonder if it wasn't their passive-agressive way of striking out at him, to avenge their right-wing masters! I've seen him in interviews on tv, and he REALLY doesn't look like that.

I found a more representative photo of the guy:

[nolabels]

13. Neither was Stalin or Mao

or even quite a few other power hungry fools. If the US thought ingrandizing wealth was a good idea, don't you think it would still be part of England?

[Judi Lynn]

15. Not sure what you mean

I looked up "aggrandizing" http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary to see if I could get another take on "aggrandizing" which would make any sense in your context.

It would help if you filled in some of the missing pieces.

[nolabels]

17. The Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI)

Hey sorry, I can't spell and I am always suspicious of people with money. This guy is in the thick of it with these folks, don't be fooled by him being muddy the waters so you don't get a good look at him, he does this on purpose.

BCCI was known as the spooks bank till it collapsed; Sorros had a big hand in that helping go that way. Just because he is one of the Bag Men does not make him any cleaner. He funded a lot of things and make them like they are, but at least look at some of the results after he packed it in and took his money.

Btw spell check works okay, just forgot to use it


Click on the that link above or just check some of these threads if you need more background on BCCI

Kissinger & BCCI spells BUSH & 9-11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Connect the Dots, America!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

George W Bush connection to the BCCI scandal ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Judi Lynn]

21. Close to Kissinger, yikes

Did a fast scan of your links, and a few articles therein, saw some things I've never heard. He's had a circle of acquaintances who could seem a little creepy, like Kissinger. Who would admit even knowing him?

STILL, he advocates pitching out a true monster. If he can help, more power to him, I hope.

[lostnfound]

26. I hope some spills over into tossing the Republican congress out

for supporting Patriot Act, the war, etc.

[KittyWampus]

51. Please Don't Fall For "Guilt By Association"

It is a lowly tactic which polarizes and ultimately leaves one with little in the way of options.

[hang a left]

53. As they say "you are what you eat."

[nolabels]

56. LOL and so close to turkey day too

I still remember that long ago day when pops told me to get the turkeys out of the rain. When I asked him why, he said they would drown. When I went out and looked, there they were staring straight up into the sky, beaks spread wide. Just goes to prove turkeys and thunder storms don't mix

[haele]

61. Especially since everyone who has that sort of money

runs in the same circles - especially European money. I would be suprised if he didn't know Kissenger, any of the other BCCI types, any "Bilderburgers" - heck, Russian Mafia/KGB and CIA types, etc, etc, etc.

The world was small after WWII and the boom in transportation and communications technology, and has been getting exponetially smaller by the week, it seems.
The fact is, if you're going to do business and succeed, you do business with those who can help you succeed. Which means if you've got any bone of humanity left in you after clawing your way up, you can work to change the system from within.

Whatever Soros' business associates are by necessity, the telling point to his personal charactor is to examine how his companies do business (trustworthyness, environmental responsiblity, ethics in whatever field they are specialized in), how they treat their employees in terms of responsiblity, initiative, and benefits, and how they treat their clients as well as what particular activities Soros personally espouses.

The fact that he had a drive to make successful international businesses should not be held against him, any more than a successful medical researcher should be looked down on because he or she might have the drive towards something "frivolous" like human pattern baldness rather than burn ward dermatology.

Taint by business association went out with taint by profession. To do business nowdays, especially in contracts and international interests, you're going to do business with shady charactors and outright criminals. The trick is trying to mitigate damages to both the customer as well as any collateral interests, like the environment, or innocent neighboring towns, or the client country's poverty and education levels...

You aren't going to change your client's ethics or policies; you just have to keep true to your own.

That he wants to unseat Bush and has shown a distain for dictatorships in general is a good sign. He might personally be an prejudiced asshole, but he's generally shown himself to be a reasonably ethical one in terms of his circle of influence and causes.

Since I don't believe a literal Santa Claus can exsist in an adult world, I understand that every philanthropist has a motivation that will need to be reconciled with the direction they give their time and resources.

I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as to his current motivations. Becuase he's obviously an opinionated hard-charger type, I'd still keep an eye on him - just as I would Bill Gates or any other wealthy personality or outspoken celebrity ...

Haele

[hang a left]

63. FYI.....Soros is a Bilderburger.

[haele]

68. So is Clinton...

(shrug)
Again, I wouldn't be suprised at all - it's an international Euro-based "business" association. It has to do with the area of business Soros is in and whether or not he wants to remain doing business on that level.
Now, if you tell me he's one of the Senior Knights Marshall of the Templers and has custody of the Holy Spear, I might be a bit more impressed.

Sorry if I seem unconcerned, but either you go with the premise everyone with over a hundred million dollars worth of business wealth on the international scale is an evil bastard conspirator because of what noses need to be browned to get business done, or we realize that on that level, every businessman and political figure needs to have associations which due to the perversities in human nature will have it's share of moral thugs, ideogogs, and arrogant priviledged snots - along with those people who genuinely value human nature and acheivement and work to improve the world in general - as well as picking up a bit of "reward" for what they consider a job well done along the way. (The latter is often seen in people who are natual leaders and have been lucky enough to have the opportunity and ability to manifest their personal visions.)
From what I have seen, the "Bilderburgers" aren't very lockstep at all; seems with what is happening worldwide, are at least three, perhaps as many as five factions pulling that business association in various policy directions. Even if two possible factions (Carslyle and the basic EU/euro-economics factions) may have ascendency right now, the Bilderburger's supposed influencial actions in the past ten years have shown a marked amount of infighting and nullification of previous policies.

My take - Soros has an equal amount of philanthropy and selfishness in him - but more importantly, his savvy for his best interests are running parallel to what are best for the world in general. Right now, the shrub's policies seem bent on leading us to a Fourth Reich, and I'm perfectly willing to accept Soros' aid in combatting that.

That doesn't mean I trust him with my best interests over his all the time, but in this fight, personally, I'd cautiously welcome his support - just as I would any other successful businessman, celebrity, or politician who has both a partial investment as well as full ownership in several of "the dogs in this fight". I'm just not sure how much he values the investment he's put into my dog, even as I'm grateful he's apparently investing...

Just my observation from the years of sitting in the international policy cheap seats. I'm here to tell you - the program is still way too expensive and shows the mangegment is still playing last years games, the beer is flat, and both the popcorn and peanuts are stale, but all in all - it's still an interesting game to watch.

Haele

[hang a left]

73. Yes, and so is Kissinger. And I don't trust either of them either.

Look, it is very hard not to like Clinton, I have adored him at times.

But..........Don't trust him

[Avalon Sparks]

106. Great posts Haele~

You put it all into perspective so wonderfully.

[belle]

92. For now, his goal IS mine: unseat Bush. That is enough.

I believe him when he says he fears what Bush is doing to the world. We NEED people like this right now. We need *everybody.* And lots and lots of money, let's face it, doesn't hurt. Sure, I'm sure he's not pure as the driven snow--there are very few billionaires who don't have *something* murky in their pasts to account for all that dough (J.K. Rowling may be the one exception). With all due respect: at this point, so the fuck what? He wants the guy GONE. The CIA wants the guy GONE. Working-class people want the guy GONE. Soccer moms want the guy GONE. White collar executives want the guy GONE. Middle-of-the-road Democrats want the guy GONE. Gun-totin' libertarians want the guy GONE. Peacenik Greens want the guy GONE. Four-star generals want the guy GONE. Hell, even a good bunch of died-in-the-wool Republicans want the guy GONE. EVERYBODY and their DOG WANTS THE GUY GONE. It may not be an *easy* goal, but it damn sure is a straightforward one, and one on which we can, I think, all agree. We're going to have to, anyway.

*After* that, it may be business as usual. We can all go back to arguing bitterly about our respective ideas of what "progress" might mean, whether it's okay to trust rich people, white people, straight people, men, Northerners, Southerners, liberals, moderates, Christians, atheists, astrologers, what have you. But none of this is going to make a damn bit of difference unless and until BUSH AND EVERY DAMN ONE OF THE MURDEROUS FREAKS IN HIS CABINET ARE GONE GONE GONE FROM OFFICE.

because either he goes, baby, or we *all* do.

Soros knows that; I'm down with Soros.

that is all.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

170. Joseph Stalin was our ally against Hitler

If Soros is willing to go to the barricades against Bush, he's my kind of person. Long term relationship? We'll talk later.

[nolabels]

179. If you ask some they would say that in ...........

many ways Stalin was worse than Hitler

http://www.newsweekly.com.au/articles/2003jun28_cover.h...

COVER STORY: Counting Stalin's victims 50 years on
by John Ballantyne
Printed in Issue:28 June 2003

March 5 2003 marked the 50th anniversary of the death of one of the greatest mass-murderers of all time - the Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin.
(snip)
For many people in the former USSR, war did not end in 1945. Partisan warfare continued for some years after the war as people of Ukraine and the Baltic States resisted attempts by the Soviet Red Army and secret police to re-impose Communist tyranny on their nations.

Non-Russian casualties

After the so-called Great Patriotic War of 1941-45, Soviet propaganda glorified specifically "Russian" sacrifices, but belittled the terrible human and material losses sustained by the non-Russian nations of the former USSR, notably Belarus and Ukraine.

Yet even Soviet sources confirmed in 1987 that, although wartime military losses were mainly Russian, the civilian losses were overwhelmingly non-Russian. The Wehrmacht never occupied any substantial region of Russia for very long, but it overran and devastated Belarus and, above all, Ukraine whose wartime losses amounted to 5-6 million dead. (The Independent, December 29, 1987).

American foreign correspondent Edgar Snow who visited the USSR in 1945 said that the "whole titanic struggle, which some are apt to dismiss as 'the Russian glory', has in all truth and in many costly ways been first of all a Ukrainian war ... No single European country has suffered deeper wounds to its cities, its industry, its farmlands and its humanity." (Saturday Evening Post, January 27, 1945). Yet, as Norman Davies has commented:
(snip)

[Tinoire]

140. Soros IS a Neo-Con. More refined but a Neo-Con nonetheless

He and his friends are scurrying to minimize collateral damage. His MO now is no overt wars, a careful amassing of power through education and the control of the press, no dangerous splits in the US/UK/Israel capitalist alliance, achieving victory through financial and trade blackmail.

Beware of thieves bearing gifts.

One mafia don running out another.

Carlyle, Carlye, Carlye... There is nothing to celebrate here... These people are exploiting our anger to retain their power.

The majority of Americans want Bush out and these guys know it. They can not afford to have us place a real choice of the people in office. We do not need their money to win this election. They need to buy us with their money to run a bunch of well crafted commercials to inluence the election process and eventually push their candidate They can not afford for one of their own NOT to be in office.

This is no gift...

The horse is at the gates of Troy.

If my life depended on these elections, I would slit my wrists now.

[DrBlix]

147. Tinoire is right don't count your blessings

just yet. Swapping one devil for another.
.
FYI....read up on our new found friend Soros.
.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/TAL307A.html
.
http://www.womensgroup.org/davos_20000903.html
.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/bl-o-95.html
.
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d1207hc.htm
.
http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9...
.
http://www.ljudmila.org/nettime/zkp4/49.htm

[Tinoire]

155. Welcome to DU! Good stuff there!

Thank you. Will read these in the morning. Loved this one!

THE WAR AGAINST THE SERBS AND THE NEW AMERICAN FASCISM

<snip>
Closely related to the human rights organization are the
so-called NGO's or non-governmental organizations or
foundations. There is a massive literature that already
exists on this extraordinarily sinister phenomenon which
goes back to the early part of this century. The
Rockefellers, who played a big role in establishing so many
of these foundations spoke of foundations as being force
greater than governments for achieving the political
objectives of the super-rich elites and their corporations.
The most infamous of these in Europe today is the Soros foundation,
established by the billionaire currency trader George Soros,
reputed to be the richest man in the world. Through
foundations such as the Soros, a country can be effectively
destroyed from within. The Soros foundation has bought off
important figures throughout Eastern Europe and financed the
training and activities of tens of thousands of young people
indoctrinated in the most reactionary and totalitarian
notions of American culture. In simple terms, Soros has
created a new generation of future leaders -- a fifth column
-- prepared to take over the governments and countries of
Eastern Europe within the next several years and to govern
them like banana republics, completely according to the
dictates of Washington. Recently the Soros foundation branch
in Belgrade has been shut down for the simple reason that it
financed the most extreme pro-American and treasonous
activities imaginable for the last three years, supporting
every U.S. policy against the Serbs including sanctions and
bombings! If this isn't sabotage, destabilization and
treason on a large scale then nothing is.

Also connected to the imposition of American sponsored
foundations is the pressure on smaller countries by the
United States to allow a degree of political pluralism and
diversity of opposition parties in the country it seeks to
destabilize that is itself maintains. Thus, while in the
U.S. there are no political alternatives to the so-called
"two party system" whatsoever, the U.S. insists on and helps
to finance literally hundreds of opposition parties and
organizations in Yugoslavia today, thereby creating
political climate of extreme uncertainty, political
paralysis and near ungovernability. Many of these political
opposition organizations got their start through Soros.

Of course, one of the very most important methods of
world conquest in the New World Order is the use of the
United Nations and its deployment of so-called
"peacekeepers." With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the
UN is today completely controlled by the U.S. and its
allies. As such, the UN has been transformed into one of the
most powerful and multifaceted weapons in the American
arsenal for the establishment of the New World Order (i.e.:
U.S. global conquest). It was through the UN that the U.S.
was able to impose sanctions and a naval embargo on the
Serbs and make it binding on all nations. It is through the
UN that international foreign policy of war against the
Serbs is harmonized. And, of course, the imposition of UN
"peacekeepers" in Yugoslavia was a key turning point in the
conflict because it handcuffed Serbs militarily and
established the basis for military occupation of the region
against the Serbs. The UN acts under the false pretense of
neutrality, but they are anything but neutral in the civil
war in Yugoslavia. Their task from the outset was to militarily
weaken and handcuff first the Yugoslav army and then the
Croatian Serb and Bosnian Serb armies. In this way they
prepared the way for the military build-up of the Croatian
and Bosnian Muslim armies that were covertly financed,
armed, trained and even led by (in order of importance) the
U.S., Germany, Austria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran, and
ultimately the military defeat of the Serb forces there.
The U.N. forces provided the necessary cover and entree
through which the U.S. military collected intelligence data
on the Serb forces and installations prior to the NATO
bombings and for the covert arming of the Bosnian Muslim
army that went on throughout the sham "arms embargo."

<snip>

What is this war really about?

Having just returned from Yugoslavia I am an eyewitness
not just to a war, but to a genocide. I know very well how
this term is deliberately misused today by the media and
governments to rewrite history, denying the real crimes
while exculpating the real criminals. This is precisely what
the Bosnian Muslims, the Croats, the Germans and the
Americans have done. And why not? They are the biggest
genocidal murderers of all time! Americans don't know and
aren't told that the Croatian and Bosnian Muslim
concentration camp of Jasenovac nearly a million people
systematically murdered between 1941 and 1944, including
most of Yugoslavia's Jews. Nor that two Bosnian Muslim SS
Divisions were raised in World War II to murder the Serbs of
Bosnia. But for those of us who do know the history of the
Balkans, and who know what is happening today, the term
genocide is appropriate for describing what is being done
and being planned for the Serbs. For if genocide means the
deliberate destruction and murder of a people, this
describes exactly what this war is all about.

<snip>
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/bl-o-95.html

[Classical_Liberal]

169. Not everything that is written is true. Fox lies alot and this doesn't

look very honest either. The fact is the Serbian leadership were doing genocide on the Bosnian muslims.

[Classical_Liberal]

167. How come Soros is writing articles denouncing neocons then?

? You may not like him, but he is no neocon.

[Tinoire]

171. Bush hinmself would denounce the neo-cons if he wanted something

I don't trust these people. The company they keep and their actions speak louder than words.

Look at how Carlyle has been trying to convince us they're nothing but a harmless investment club. Soros is part of Carlyle... When trillions are at stake, economies ruined all over the world and wars raging from which you'll profit, what are a few mere words?

Like these words back in July:

Bush Must Push for Africa Oil Transparency

U.S. President George W.Bush can best help Africa by urging U.S. firms active there to reveal oil and mining rights payments, a global campaign led by billionaire George Soros said on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEd...

[Classical_Liberal]

186. How do we know what you posted is true

Look at this report.

Democracy Now Funded by Soros OSI & Carlyle Group/CIA Funds Fair Jeff Cohen

http://members.sitegadgets.com/wcoca/board/226.html I am sorry but some stories on the net are just really smelly.

[Tinoire]

192. Yeah but that's a rant. I didn't post any rants

just articles...

But I understand your concern... Just keep reading is all I can say.

Eventually you get to the point where you know enough of the facts to know how reliable the analyses and articles are.

Of course you could just choose to get a life... That would be my recommendation. Not get but keep because when you get to the point I'm talking about, it means Bush as stolen everything from you.

Happy reading... though I would prefer to wish you a happy life.

[nolabels]

177. And he also fills the vacuum made at the other end so any of........

the real people like a Castro or Chaves don't show up

He is in the thick of it with them; he might even lead the charge at them some times, but if you notice not too much comes from it. His neoliberal allegiances like the NeoCons it to the money

I pasted the end of it but its quite long and informative with footnotes. The first few paragraphs might be very interesting too

http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d1207hc.htm
George Soros, Imperial Wizard
(snip)
Sorosian innumeracy: counting to bolster and defend U.S. foreign policy.

Soros is very worried about the decline in the world capitalist system and he wants to do something about it, now. He recently said: "I can already discern the makings of the final crisis.... Indigenous political movements are likely to arise that will seek to expropriate the multinational corporations and recapture the 'national' wealth." 69

Soros is seriously suggesting a plan to circumvent the United Nations. He proposes that the "democracies of the world ought to take the lead and forge a global network of alliances that could work with or without the United Nations." If he were psychotic, one might think he was having an episode. But the fact is, Soros' assertion that "The United Nations is constitutionally incapable of fulfilling the promises contained in the preamble of its charter," reflects the thinking of such reactionary institutions as the American Enterprise Institute. 70 Though many conservatives refer to the Soros network as left-wing, on the question of U.S. affiliation with the United Nations Soros is on the same page as the likes of John R. Bolton, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs, who, with "any Republicans in Congress-believe that nothing more should be paid to the UN system." 71 There has been a decades-long rightwing campaign against the UN. Now Soros is leading it. On various Soros web sites one may read criticism of the United Nations as too rich, unwilling to share information, or flawed in ways that make it unfit for the way the world should run according to George Soros.

Even writers at The Nation, writers who clearly ought to know better, have been influenced by Soros' ideas. William Greider, for instance, recently found some validity in Soros' criticism that the United Nations should not be a venue for "tin-pot dictators and totalitarians. . treated as equal partners." 72 This kind of Eurocentric racism is at the heart of Soros' hubris. His assumption that the United States can and should run the world is a prescription for fascism on a global scale. For much too long, Western "progressives" have been giving Soros a pass. Probably Greider and others will find the reference to fascism excessive, unjustified, even outrageous.

But just listen closely to what Soros himself has to say: "In old Rome, the Romans only voted. In the modern global capitalism, the Americans only vote. The Brazilians do not vote." 73
(snip)

I don't know if anybody noticed it but was from a link in here

Kissinger & BCCI spells BUSH & 9-11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Classical_Liberal]

187. I am a liberal not a communists

Chaves maybe is the real people because he is democratic and believes in helping the poor. Castro doesn't fit that category. Sorry.

[nolabels]

198. Me either

I would consider myself leaning towards a free and sustainable market person. The problem I see is that is it being as much illusion as any Marxist state because of all the effing fascists and some authoritarian liberals want to plunk a government or state apparatus in the middle of parties to suck the life out of both.

There is obscene fraud, corruption, violence and murder going on and much of it emanating out of places some would consider the authorities. Large institutions inherently breed it.

Castro and Chaves are an effect and not something new. They have a large percentage of the people behind them only as a result of a failed authoritarian capitalist system. They filled the vacuum
My guess would be that Cuba would turn into a model Democracy overnight if the US political system, * and the Gangsters that reside in Miami went away. Just like Arafat, Castro would be a nothing without his opposition that operates on that amoral or immoral side of the fence.

The biggest problems the US has in getting rid of any of them such thorny issues resides in itself practicing real Egalitarism and not the kind it used to try and thump the rest of the world with. The rest of the world is getting hip to the tricks them marketing boys try use to deceive them with. The biggest question is when will the rest of the US people figure it out?

You might notice though, those places that have been thumbed down by the capitalist that have had to reinvent the wheel. It also seems to me that they have mostly been able to do it

SUSTAINABLE INDUSTRIALIZATION
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Page 1. SUSTAINABLE INDUSTRIALIZATION A NEW STRATEGIC TREND IN ASIAN DEVELOPING
ECONOMIES By DO DUC DINH Institute of World Economy Hanoi - Vietnam Page 2. ...
www.capi.uvic.ca/pubs/oc_papers/doducdihn.pdf - Similar pages

(snip)
SUMMARY
This paper starts from the analysis of the comparative advantages of Asian developing economies such as labor, natural resources, capital, technologies and markets, with an aim to reassess the industrialization strategies having been implemented since the 1950s to the e present time, including the import-substitution, export-orientation and heavy-industries-based strategies. Of these, the third obviously failed to succeed, while the other two resulted in miracle economic growth with too much inward-looking or vulnerable exposure to foreign capital, technologies and markets, hence less consideration for internal factors. This has led to great economic, social and environmental imbalances. One of the most serious and undeniable consequences of these biases is the current financial crisis.
As a result, Asian developing economies have now turned to a new development
trend or, may it be said, a new development strategy, that is, sustainable industrialization which is characterized by more balanced and flexible economic and social development with greater international and regional integration and better ecological environment.
(snip)

[mouse7]

80. It's impossible to get that much money and not be a litttle creepy

You simply can't generate that much money without stepping on a lot of toes and entering a lot of grey areas.

Personally, I'd rather people didn't get personal fortunes that ludicrously big. However, they have. The best we can do as progressives is hope some of that wealth goes to good causes.

[stevedeshazer]

116. Come on, you guys, get real

Do you guys have any idea who George Soros is and what he stands for?

He is part of the Carlyle Group.

<snip>
AN IMPORTANT TENET of journalism is that you should always ask, “Who benefits?”

In the case of a war, the answers to this question become of paramount importance. Suppose, for example, that profits from
military contracting were to go in the pockets of a former U.S. President whose son (and a presumed future heir) is now
President? Suppose further that such profits escalate in times of conflict. Wouldn’t this be of concern to the public? Wouldn’t
you expect the media to be all over such an important ethical (not to mention moral, and maybe legal) angle?

Though described by the Industry Standard as “the world’s largest private equity firm,” with over $12 billion under
management, chances are readers haven’t ever heard of The Carlyle Group. Isn’t that a little odd, considering it is run by
a veritable who's who of former Republican political leaders. Former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci is Carlyle’s chairman and
managing director (who, by the way, was college roommate of the current Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld). And that
partners in this mammoth venture include former U.S. Secretary of State James A. Baker III, George Soros, Fred
Malek (George H.W. Bush’s campaign manager, forced to resign when it was revealed he was Nixon’s “Jew
counter”), and—presumably—George H.W. Bush?

We say “presumably” because the privately-held Carlyle doesn’t have to reveal information about its partners or
investments to the SEC or to anyone else.

source: (from 2001) http://baltimorechronicle.com/media3_oct01.shtml

____________________________________________________________________

This can't be good. Why do you trust this guy? Why are you all rejoicing because George Soros is willing to work against his
business partner in a struggle for control of Carlyle largesse? This helps how?

[Zhade]

136. Exactly.

He's trying to wrest control away from Bush because the Stupid Texas Traitor is messing up the global business plan.

It's not about philanthropy. It's about saving the business plan.

[Tinoire]

145. Boy am I happy to see you & Zhade and all the others - RESEARCH SOROS!

to this sad celebration.

DUers please research this THIEF.

What good does it do us to throw one mafia don out only to replace it with another. CARLYLE WINS EITHER WAY!

You want to fight Carlyle? You want Democracy to win?

Quit celebrating and research this guy. Search the DU archives to see what was said about this thug before he came bearing gifts.
=====================================
(Excerpt)

Aside from Middle East autocrats and tycoons (such as the bin Laden family), Carlyle counts as among its partners George Soros, the multi-billionaire financier of right-wing NGOs in Eastern Europe and accused by Malaysian authorities as having engineered the Asian financial crisis in 1997; and Fred Malek, Bush Sr.’s campaign manager.

After only 15 years, Carlyle is now worth $13.5 billion. The private empire, which operates in the shadows of the iron triangle of government, industry and military spans three continents and includes investments in most corners of the world. It has ownership stakes in 164 companies which last year employed more than 70,000 people and generated $16 billion in revenues. About 450 institutions – mainly large pension funds and banks – are Carlyle investors. Since 1987, Carlyle has invested $5.4 billion in 233 transactions, with a rate of return of 36% on its investments.

www.bulatlat.com/news/2-13/2-13-carlyle.html

----
Eleventh hour lies mount as war approaches
by Larry Chin
www.globalresearch.ca 17 March 2003
The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/303A.html



"Go ahead and kill us"

In yet another typical example of Bush-era news, Newsweek magazine published a small article in its December 23, 2002 issue titled, "Go Invade My Space", intended to leave lazy and misinformed readers with the impression that Iraqis welcome their own slaughter.

Citing only a survey conducted conducted by the International Crisis Group, the Brussels-based think tank www.intl-crisis-group.org/about/board.cfm , Colin Soloway concluded that "almost everybody is against the war ---except the Iraqis" and "most Iraqis interviewed support the idea of an invasion, as well as a US occupation."

<snip>

To erase any doubts about the agenda of the ICG (described on its own web site as a "private advocacy organization" that "responds to crises by providing on-the-spot analysis of root causes and proposing practical solutions"), here are key members of its board of directors:

Zbigniew Brezezinski
Saud Nasir Al-Sabah. Kuwaiti Royal Family. Former ambassador to the US during the first Gulf War, former head of the Kuwaiti Ministry of Oil. As documented by UPI correspondent Morgan Strong (http://www.rense.com/general30/sdeee.htm ), the most deceptive US propaganda produced during the first Gulf War was created by the Al-Sabah regime and public relations firm (Hill & Knowlton) tied to George H.W. Bush’s administration. The woman who appeared in fake news footage (claiming the killing of Iraqi babies) starred none other than Nayirah, the daughter of Saud Nasir Al-Sabah.
El-Hassan bin Talal. Crown Prince of Jordan. Hassan has been floated as potential ruler of a portion of post-Saddam Iraq, and has met with Paul Wolfowitz. The ruling Jordanian monarchy’s close ties to Washington stretches back to the 1950s, when the CIA assisted the late Jordanian King Hussein to the throne. Jordan is also the headquarters of the CIA-linked Iraqi National Accord, one of the main Iraqi opposition groups involved over the past decade with toppling Saddam Hussein.

Stephen Solarz. Former US Congressman. Original signatory of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. (www.fcnl.org/issues/int/sup/iraq_liberation.htm ). Co-Chair (with Richard Perle) of the Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf (CPSG), and member, Project for a New American Century---neoconservative anti-Baghdad groups calling for Iraqi regime removal.
Kenneth Adelman. Former assistant to U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from 1975 to 1977 and UN ambassador under Ronald Reagan, and frequent guest on right-wing Fox news. The hawkish Adelman (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-adelman12... ) has been one of the most histrionic voices calling for Saddam’s ouster , further killing of Palestinians (he views Palestinian children as ‘homicide bombers’), and the elimination of all Islamic anti-US opposition in the Middle East (including Saudi Arabia and Egypt).

General Wesley Clark. Former NATO supreme commander.
Morton Abramowitz. Former US Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research.

George Mitchell. Former US senator. Recently resigned as a co-chair for a blue ribbon panel investigating September 11 because of "conflicts of interest".

S. Daniel Abraham. One of the 400 wealthiest people in America, privately involved with Middle East and Israel-Palestine politics for years.

Henry Luce III

Laurance Rockefeller

George Soros. Billionaire super investor, philanthropist. According to a penetrating analysis by Heather Cottin (CovertAction Quarterly, Fall 2002), Soros, a leading member of the Council on Foreign Relations as well as the Carlyle Group, plays a major role in "tightening the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain". Soros’ Open Society, which routinely funds "alternative Left groups" (http://questionsquestions.net/feldman/soros.html ) has been linked to the CIA.

Richard Allen, former US National Security Adviser. Allen recruited Oliver North to Ronald Reagan’s National Security Council, and was a participant in the arms-for-hostages Iran-Contra operation. The ultra-hawk Allen resigned from Richard Nixon’s cabinet out of disgust for Henry Kissinger’s "liberal" policies.

Fidel Ramos. Former Philippine president. Senior advisor of the Carlyle Group and the head of Carlyle’s Asian advisory board.
A large number of ICG directors are also members of the Balkan Action Counsel, American Peace in Chechnya, and other groups involved with post-USSR Central Asia. Clearly, what currently passes for news in the American corporate media is the voice of the US war lobby that has been lobbying for a "regime change" in Iraq for over a decade. (http://onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Chin110702/chi... ).

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI303A.html

--

Welcome to IESC


The International Executive Service Corps is the largest not-for-profit business development organization of its kind in the world.

IESC has been working since 1964 to increase the competitiveness of entrepreneurs and small and medium-sized firms in the developing world and in emerging democracies.
Our expertise also extends to strengthening non-governmental and business support organizations. Our public administration program engenders strong democratic practices, values and institutions among the new, emerging democracies.

IESC BOARD OF DIRECTORS

John R. Torell III
Chairman of IESC
Managing Partner
Core Capital Group

Hon. Lucy Wilson Benson
Former Under Secretary of State

Ronald L. Bornhuetter
Former Chairman and CEO
NAC RE Corporation

Hon. Nicholas F. Brady
Chairman
Darby Advisors, Inc.
Former Secretary of the Treasury

Frank Carlucci
Chairman Emeritus
The Carlyle Group
Former Secretary of Defense

Howard L. Clark, Jr.
Vice Chairman
Lehman Brothers, Inc.

Ruth M. Davis
President & CEO
The Pymatuning Group. Inc.

Fulvio V. Dobrich
Executive Director
DEPFA Bank

Kathleen Lacey Hoge
Partner
Core Capital Group

James M. Kilts
Chairman & CEO
The Gillette Company

Spencer T. King
President & CEO
IESC

Donald K. McIvor
Senior Vice President (ret.)
Exxon Corporation

David E. McKinney
President
The Metropolitan Museum of Art

Carl H. Pforzheimer III
Managing Partner
Carl H. Pforzheimer & Co.

William P. Powell
Managing Director
William Street Advisors

Richard Sabot
Chairman
eZiba
Professor of Economics, Emeritus
Williams College

George Vojta
Director
Financial Services Forum

Hon. John C. Whitehead
Former Deputy Secretary of State


Secretary & General Counsel
Richard McGrath, Esq.
Senior Partner
Cummings & Lockwood

IESC ADVISORY COUNCIL

U.S. Senator Joseph I. Lieberman
Connecticut

Robert C. Liuzzi
President & CEO
CF Industries

U.S. Senator Richard G. Lugar
Indiana

Robert C. Macauley
Founder & Chairman
AmeriCares Foundation

Congressman Christopher Shays (R)
Connecticut

George Soros
Chairman
The Soros Foundation


http://www.iesc.org/board.html

[dArKeR]

12. The last MORAL person left on Earth! Brings tears to my eyes!

The last MORAL person with money left on Earth!

[specimenfred1984]

14. Similarities Between GOP and Nazis

Republican Platform - Nazi Platform

Anti-equal rights - SAME
Anti-intellectuals - SAME
Anti-environment - SAME
Pro war - SAME
World domination - SAME
Pro capital punishment - SAME
Anti-free speech - SAME
Elite rule government - SAME
Pro "common man" rhetoric - SAME
Anti-immigration - SAME
Belief in superiority - SAME
Large propaganda office - SAME
Leadership through hatred - SAME
Citizen spy network - SAME
Not elected by majority - SAME
Secret tribunals - SAME
Political Assassinations - SAME
Invading Countries - SAME
Use Terror as Political Tool - SAME
Prison camps - SAME

GO SOROS!!!!!!!!!

[IndependantThinker]

128. Similarities? Not just because you think so...

Be careful of comparing anyone to the Nazi regime. You obviously have some hatred of the GOP, which is fine, except when you start telling lies about them. Bash the GOP with truth, please.

"Anti-equal rights" - exactly how is the GOP anti-equal rights? Does equal-rights mean special rights for some and not others? Or does equal-rights mean everyone treated the same according to the law?

"Pro war" - I do believe that MANY Dems are also Pro War, yet I don't see a post from you comparing the Dems to Nazi Germany. Also, the Nazi's had a plan to dominate the world through military conquest. Where in the GOP platform do they discuss military conquest of the world?

"Anti-immigration" - I believe you mean to say "Anti-illegal-immigration", which should be praised and not denounced. Everyone who comes to this country illegally and is coddled by the politicians is a slap in the face to EVERYONE who has every sacrificed to come here LEGALLY - which is the vast majority of anyone not born here. Think about what you're complaining about!

"Not elected by majority" - This same old tired crap from the extreme left? I'm assuming you're referring to a majority of the people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Clinton wasn't elected by a majority of the voting public was he? Even Al Gore admitted that GW won the election FAIR AND SQUARE. GW, like it or not, was elected in accordance with EVERY election law in the land. Quit spouting this crap. Why hasn't MOVEON.org rallied against people like you to MOVEON from this tired squabble?


Your list was very lame, and much of what you are trying to say could easily be argued as doctrines of the left. Come up with something better next time, please.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndependantThinker]

132. Why can't you at least answer my questions?

I just want some honest debate here. Statements should be backed up with facts. That's all I want.

[Zhade]

138. Don't expect to get far with the "get over it" mentality.

A lot of DUers - like myself, for example - don't appreciate the "Dubya won fair and square" line. Mainly because it's completely untrue:

1) 90,000+ historically-Democratic-voting people, mostly black, illegally expunged from the Florida voting rolls before the election by a private firm at the insistence of Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris (co-chair of The Traitor's election campaign in Florida), 90% of whom were legally entitled to vote and still haven't gotten that right reinstated;

2) the "Brooks Brothers" near-riot that shut down the legally-proceeding vote recount in Miami-Dade county;

3) the -16,000 votes in Volusia county that caused Bush's first cousin, on FOX News, to call Florida for Bush, thus setting up the blatantly false impression that it was Gore trying to steal the election (a clear untruth);

4) a partisan, one-time-only "special circumstances" Supreme Court ruling in favor of The Traitor, issued by so-called justices who were appointed by his own father;

And more, should you care to learn about it.

Honestly, I hope you're simply uninformed on this, because that's easier to fix. If you know all the facts and still believe the commander-in-thief belongs in the White House, well, I don't know what to say...

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

142. It's hard not to hate a traitor to the Constitution.

I'm certainly not going to apologize for calling a spade a spade. Bush is a traitor to this country, has broken federal and international laws, and should be prosecuted for war crimes.

If you want to know all about the 90,000+ voters, go to http://www.gregpalast.com - he's the one who broke the story, which aired on the BBC. Not here in America, of course.

Quite simply put, you will find out pretty rapidly that people here will see you as a "Freeper". I am not calling you that, but your rather suspect views of the credibility of established facts doesn't help.

Again, check out Palast. You'll be quite surprised - unpleasantly, I imagine.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

160. No apologies for newness needed.

You'll need to dig a little at GP's site to find the 90k voters story, so here's a direct link to the story: http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=74&row=1 . If you'd like to watch the BBC newscast, including the encounter between Palast and Clayton Roberts (Florida's Director of Elections in 2000) in which Roberts runs off camera when Palast tries to show him the contract for the voter-scrub, you can see it here.

Although you may not realize why at this point, you make a reverse point through your remarks on CNN, Rather, and Kronkite, which is that mainstream news media is not to be wholeheartedly believed. CNN is not brimming with journalistic integrity. The aforementioned Greg Palast has remarked that "Dan Rather said, on the program I work on at BBC TV, that he can't ask tough questions on US television." Here's an example of the crack journalism done by CBS:

5. Why do you think Americans and American news agencies paid little or no attention to the Harris-Bush removal of voters in Florida?

Hey, YOU tell ME. I'll give you just one story from the book. Dan Rather's CBS Evening News called me and asked for a piece of the story on purging voters. I had info that Jeb Bush's own office had, in violation of two court orders, sent out a letter telling elections supervisors to remove thousands of LEGAL voters from the roles – people with criminal records but had their voting rights restored in other states. CBS didn't run the story. Why? The producer told me, "Your story didn't stand up." How did she know that? SHE CALLED JEB BUSH'S OFFICE AND THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T DO IT. D'oh!
(Later, the Washington Post ran this story – but only after the US Civil Rights Commission endorsed my findings - in other words, once I had official endorsement.) US journalism is pompous, lazy, cowardly.

Here's a tip on the whole media thing - visit the websites below for a crash course on the state of our consolidated, corporate media. You will then understand exactly why you will never hear a negative story on, say, General Electric (a defense contrator, by the way) on NBC, because GE owns NBC. If news broadcasters own stock in a defense contractor, doesn't it seem a temptation for those broadcasters to play up the reasons for going to war? After all, this would directly benefit them economically. By the way, running a Google search on Project Mockingbird might not be a bad idea, either.

http://www.takebackthemedia
http://www.tvnewslies.com
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com
http://www.mediachannel.org

As for name-calling, I try not to engage in that. I do, however, point out the facts, one of which is that George Walker Bush is a traitor. Now, you pull out the Clinton card - which, by the way, you should expect to get savaged for here, so be prepared! - and attempt to paint Bush and Clinton as one and the same. They are not.

However, and this may shock you, I do not like Clinton either, for many reasons (the consensual, if sleazy and hurtful, blowjob involving two grown adults NOT being one of them). Kosovo, Waco, the 1996 Executive Order that set the stage for the Patriot Act, Clinton's DLC ties, his choice of coworkers (like Madeline "half a million dead Iraqis is a price worth paying" Albright, who also failed to stop 800,000 Tutis from being slaughtered in Rwanda) - the list goes on.

I do believe, incidentally, that I specified that I was NOT calling you a Freeper. That term, by the way, applies to blind followers of the traitors in the White House and the Right-Wing movement in the United States (like Rush "Illegally-Obtained Oxycontin" Limbaugh) who believe every word out of a proven liar's mouth. I went out of my way to state that I was NOT calling you a Freeper.

You should be aware, though, that many of your arguments sound Freeper-like, which is to say uninformed. That's not a sin. Hell, I supported Bush for ten months after 9/11, until I realized the truth about him, his handlers, PNAC, the whole nine yards. Ignorance is no failing. Refusing to learn is, but I am not making that judgement of you, because as you rightly state, I do not know you personally.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

16. Amazing! Thank you, Mr. Soros!

OTOH, Did you see that NewsMax bought a headline ad on msnbc with a link to a Rush poll?

Yikes! Someone making a statement or what?

[Hoppin_Mad]

18. YEAH !

The best news I've read all day.

[Myra]

19. Then donate some money to the Clark campaign Mr Soros!

The Repugs find a way around the doner limits;
I'm sure you can too.

Fight fire with fire.

[lostnfound]

25. I'm sure he will; they already have links on namebase.org

but he will be limited to $2000, anyway, of direct money.

Linked article says he's giving $18.5 million among 3 groups.

Can you imagine moveon.org's founder is just 22 years old and started a group that's now getting $5 million from one guy? One person (not just one billionaire) CAN make a difference.

I'm most impressed that Soros previously contributed big bucks to campaign finance reform. That's putting money behind the "making money less powerful" cause, and shows me he believes in democracy more than personal influence.

Thanks, George. For doing what you can.

[Myra]

93. "but he will be limited to $2000, anyway, of direct money"

Exactly. But the Rethugs sure find a million ways
around that niggling little rule.

I didn't realize he is fighting for campaign
finance reform. That is the number one issue
we're facing...'cept that if we don't successfully
fight voting fraud, aka Diebold/computerized
cheating, we'll never have the chance to tackle
campaign finance reform.

Moveon.org's founder is just 22 years old??
Really?
Wow.

[Democat]

20. A real American patriot!

This is another counterpoint for those few DUers who seem to think all rich people are evil.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

22. Notice the RUSH Banner at the top? That's NewsMax!

RW Slugs buying space on MSNBC? On this particular page? Whazzup wit that?

[Supormom]

121. Why not vote in the Rush poll?

"We will be sending the results of this poll to congress"
Say what?

[emad]

27. Soros was involved in the 1970s with Mahdi Al-Tajir

who became UAE ambassador to the UK, and was reputedly at that time the 'second wealthiest man in the UAE' after persuading the Al-Maktoum ruling family of the Emirates to be their front man for "foreign investment applications". Al-Tajir was the lynchpin between BCCI's Aga Hassan Abedi and Kissinger and was the first to offer them 'banking facilities' in the UAE.

He also bankrolled an Iraqi called Sabih Mahmoud Shukri in the early 1980s into financing a scam outfit in London that called itself Allied Arab Bank. This was initially a partnership between failed UK bankers Johnson Matthey and Barclays Bank. A series of international frauds led to its closure and revealed a network of corrupt partners from Nigeria and Pakistan who were laundering money via Channel Islands offshore accounts, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and various tax havens in the Carribean.

Previously Shukri had been the London manager of the Jordanian - based Arab Bank, whose principal shareholders and directors were the Shoman brothers. Much has been documented about their interests in facilitating the flow of Palestinian funds into the accounts of radical terrorist organisations in the late 1960s through to the 1980s.

[0007]

40. Very interesting!

Do you think Soros is making restitution now for his past behavior?

Or is there an enormous reward waiting Soros behind this motive for his madness?

Can spots on the tiger change?

[emad]

165. Restitution? More like covering his ass

Soros probably knows the offshore bank account numbers which tory and labour politicians and public figures were paid from via enron slush funds to gag them about thatcher's concealment of reagan/bush 1 scams including banco ambrosiano and bcci. His enormous reward is the rake off ken lay paid him upfront to hide junior's perfidity in the mid 80s when his blackmail number re charles and diana was about to be exposed by uk special branch.

Think this particular tiger is so acne-scarred and pitted with syphilitic blemishes no amount os scrubbing or cover-up is ever gonna eradicate or alter them zits

[nolabels]

66. Al-Maktoum seems like to be very public , can't find too many links

I also found something on the late Khalid Abdul Hameed Shoman but not too much info putting many of them together, could you help us a little more? You seem to be from that area and know things others don't

[emad]

166. Some of this is covered by the UK lawsuit:

Allied Arab Bank v Hajjar which I think is catalogued under some UK law library. The UK barrister who has dealt with all this is Richard Sheldon QC:http://www.southsquare.com/richard_sheldon.html

The fraud bank cases he's listed as having dealt with are:



Major Cases:

Recent major cases include acting for COLT in its successful defence against proceedings brought by bondholders, the liquidators of BCCI (since 1991), the administrators and liquidators of Barings, the Australian liquidator of the Bond Group of companies, the former central bank of Cuba, the purchasers of Global Crossing in connection with its restructuring.

Reported Cases:

Wight & Othrs v Eckhardt Marine (PC) The Times 6 June 03

Highberry Ltd v COLT Telecom Group plc <2003> 1 BCLC 290



Re Banco Nacional de Cuba <2001> 1 WLR 2039

Three Rivers DC v Bank of England (HL) <2001> 2 All ER 513

Re BCCI, Banque Arabe Internationale d’Investissement SA v Morris <2001> 1 BCLC 263

Bank of Credit and Commerce International (Overseas) Ltd v Akindele (CA) <2001> Ch 437



Three Rivers DC v Bank of England (HL) <2000> 2 WLR 1220

Banco Nacional de Cuba v Cosmos Trading Corp (CA) <2000> 1 BCLC 813

Morris v Bank of America National Trust (CA) <2000> 1 All ER 954

Three Rivers DC v Bank of England (CA) <2000> 2 WLR 15

Re J N Taylor Finance (Pty) Ltd <1999> BCC 197

Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA v Ali (No 2) <1999> 4 All ER 83

Bank of Credit and Commerce International (Overseas) Ltd v Akindele <1999> BCC 669

Re Parkfield Group plc <1998> 1 BCLC 451

Re Astra Holdings plc <1998> 2 BCLC 44

Credit Suisse v Waltham Forest LBC <1997> QB 362 (CA)

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No 12)

Morris v Bank of America <1997> 1 BCLC 526

Gyoury v Northern Rock Building Society <1997> EGCS 56

Re Real Meat Company <1996> BCC 254

Beverley Group plc v. McClue <1995> 2 BCLC 407

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA <1994> 1 WLR 708 (CA)

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.7), Morris v. Al Mirabi <1994> BCLC 455

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.6), Mahfouz v. Morris <1994>

BCLC 450

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.5) <1994> BCLC 429

Re SH & Co (Realisations) 1990 Ltd <1993> BCLC 1309

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.3) <1993> BCLC 106 and 1490 (CA)

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA <1993> BCC 787

Price Waterhouse v. BCCI Holdings (Luxembourg) SA <1992> BCLC 583

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.2) <1992> BCLC 579

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA <1992> BCLC 570

Paragon Group Ltd v. Burnell <1991> Ch 498 (CA)

Arab Monetary Fund v. Hashim (No.3) <1991> 2 AC 114 (CA)

Re London Iron and Steel Co Ltd <1990> BCLC 372

Re Synthetic Technology Ltd <1990> BCLC 378

Astor Chemicals Ltd v. Synthetic Technologies Ltd <1990> BCLC 1

Re Adlards Motor Group Holding Ltd <1990> BCLC 68

Re Acli Metals (London) Ltd <1989> BCLC 749

Re Embassy Art Products Ltd <1988> BCLC 1

Allied Arab Bank v. Hajjar (No.2) <1988> QB 944

Allied Arab Bank v. Hajjar <1988> QB 787

Re Brightlife Ltd <1987> Ch 200

Re International Tin Council <1987> Ch 419

Sauter Automation Ltd v. Goodman (Mechanical Services) Ltd (1986) 34 BLR 81

Re Rhine Film Corporation (UK) Ltd <1986> BCC 98, 949

Re Lowerstoft Traffic Services Ltd <1986> BCLC 81

Re Quest CAE Ltd <1985> BCLC 226

Re Potters Oils Ltd <1985> BCLC 203

Re Amalgamated Investment and Property Co Ltd <1985> Ch 349

Re Pittortou (A Bankrupt) <1985> 1 WLR 58

Insurance Officer v. Hemmant <1984> 1 WLR 857 (CA)

Doble v. Firestone Tyre and Rubber Co Ltd <1981> IRLR 28 (EAT)

Publications:

Halsbury’s Laws, Vol 7(3), Fourth Edition 1996 Reissue – Companies

Halsbury’s Laws, Vol 3(2), Fourth Edition Reissue – Bankruptcy and Insolvency

[emad]

168. OK check this: link to Mark Rich (Clinton's 2000 pardon)/Al Tajir

From:

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld...

Extract:

1. These proceedings arise out of an elaborate fraud by which the plaintiff, Dubai Aluminium Co Ltd, was induced to pay out US$50 million between September 1987 and March 1993 under a bogus consultancy agreement with Marc Rich & Co AG. The proceeds were shared out among the principal participants in the fraud under several equally bogus sub-agreements. Mr Hany Mohamed Salaam and His Excellency Mahdi Mohamed Al Tajir were found by the trial judge, Rix J, to have been dishonest participants in the scheme, together with Dubai Aluminium's chief executive, Mr Ian Livingstone. They benefited either directly or through companies controlled by them: to the extent of about $20.3 million in the case of Mr Salaam, $16.5 million in the case of Mr Al Tajir and $6.3 million in the case of Mr Livingstone.

Edit: also: http://www.namebase.org/xsup/Mahdi-Al_2D-Tajir.html

[Tinoire]

119. Interesting. I was not aware of this.

This is just getting worse.

[Zhade]

28. Guys - Soros is NOT a hero. Be very, very wary.

George Soros owned a third of Harken after Harken purchased Soros Oil, which happened after Arbusto was bailed out by Spectrum 7, which Harken later acquired. Harken, of course, had "extensive ties" with BCCI. Worth noting is that, according to Greg Palast, one of Harken's board members, Sheikh Abdullah Bakhsh, accompanied Iran-Contra weapons dealer and middleman Adnan Khashoggi to "...a meeting with Saudi billionaires and Al-Qaeda's financial arm. In essence, Palast claims the Saudis paid protection money to the terrorists."

Soros invested $100 million with the Carlyle Group.

Last December he was tried - and convicted - in a French court for insider trading.

He's financed a lot of members of what research is revealing may be a corporate-controlled "Parallel Left" media.

He sits on the board of the Council on Foreign Relations, which also includes Vin Weber (chairman for the National Endowment for Democracy, which according to the New York Times "...funnelled more than $877,000 into Venezuela opposition groups in the weeks and months before the recently aborted coup attempt..." last year), John Deutch (on the board of Citigroup, Raytheon), Robert E. Rubin (director and chairman of the executive committee of Citigroup, on the board at Ford Motors), and Andrew Young (director for Archer Daniels Midland and the CAPPS-loving Delta), among others.

For a detailed look at Soros, read George Soros: Prophet of an "Open Society". He's not the white knight some of the higher-ups would want us to believe.

[hang a left]

34. And by the way...............

Guess where Mr. Soros was on 9/11? That is right! The same underground mililtary/govermental facility that Whistle-Ass was.


And on edit, he was there before Whistle Ass was. I wonder what time he actually got there. What do you want to bet it was before the first plane struck the first tower.

[loudnclear]

36. Sounds like he has the background to fight the Bushco-neo-cons.

You didn't really expect him to be a "clean" billionire did you? You can't be a billionaire and only invest in the environment or squeaky clean enterprises (of which there are none). Grow up! We need to fight these bastarads on a more level playing field and Soros just may be the help we need. Don't tell me you are falling for the RWing brain-wash that morals and integrity count?

[hang a left]

43. No actually LNC, I don't trust ANYONE.

They are all thugs!!! They are just on different teams. Any $$$$$$ they want to give to support ABB is fine with me. But don't expect me to sing praises to them for advancing their own agendas.

[Minstrel Boy]

59. Very true. We need to stop looking for white knights among the elite and

become our own heroes.

It reminds me of the CIA/White House drama. Too many on the left are imagining the Agency is on "our" side. The CIA has its own conflicting agendas, and they have nothing to do with us.

[belle]

98. I think there's a happy medium somewhere there.

That is, to a large extent, we *are* being our own heroes. The grassroots movement has been amazing. But there's so much money and power we're up against; I really don't think it's enough. I for one am thrilled that the big bucks are coming our way.
That doesn't mean I want to go all gooey over Soros or any other one person (including Dean, who I still support); there is a danger to thinking "Yay, Daddy's home," I think. People are complicated, and no, this isn't all going to end up happily ever after even if we do get these fucks out of power. It'll be just the beginning. (or another beginning). But, I can't say it enough, we do need them out. In order to do that we do need grassroots; but we also need, eventually, a leader. (i.e. one of the candidates). And, frankly, we'll need money.

I actually have a little more goodwill for Soros than for the CIA, if only because I do believe that he's as freaked out by the specter of outright fascism as the rest of us: he has good, personal reasons for it, much older and more powerful than the drive for money that's been most of his adult life. But ultimately: he's got the green. He's willing to give it with (it *looks* like) no strings. I say take it--and him--for what it is: one more weapon in the arsenal. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Tinoire]

120. I am so with you in that sentiment. EXACTLY how I feel! n/t

[rman]

47. morals and integrity

RW rambles on about it, but they got nothing to show for it. After all it's lack of morals and integrity that enables corruption.
If anything, morals and integrity is a LW thing.

[BenFranklinUSA]

45. Read the link above....

This guys sounds more dangerous than W.

Another of his quotes,
"I contend that an open society may also be threatened... from excessive individualism."
Yikes :O

(from http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97feb/capital/capital... )

[KittyWampus]

50. Excessive Individualism is ANARCHY

Excessive Individualism is in fact the REJECTION of the Common Good.

Excessive Individualism means EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF

Get the picture?

[stevedeshazer]

100. Absolutely

Sounds to me like the reason Soros wants to donate to MoveOn is that he wants to get rid of BushCo and replace it with SorosCo.

Remember all the threads on how MoveOn.org is Marxist a couple of weeks ago? Now all these posters are happy. Can't have it both ways.

Follow the money.

[Logansquare]

55. I happen to agree with his statement

The cult of the individual is destroying this country. Civic participation has dwindled away. Americans are "bowling alone" to paraphrase the title of a great book on the trend.

[Timefortruth]

78. Excessive individualism IS killing the USA.

People only focus on what is good for them as an individual and not what is good for society or future generations. Tax cuts for example, the environment is another. Until the public views themselves as part of a whole things will get worse. With apologies to Ayn, selfishness is not always a virtue.

[sam sarrha]

189. i agree...i am willing to be someon else.

[Teaser]

46. I don't care.

The Enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Soros is a weapon, and I ain't afraid to use him.

[rman]

48. The enemy of your enemy may be your enemy tomorrow

Soros may have his own agenda.

[Zhade]

75. This is the exact kind of thinking that created bin Laden and Hussein.

NT!

[belle]

95. So what's the solution? Stop supporting MoveOn?

I don't think so.

[Zhade]

134. Ah, that's silly. I didn't suggest that.

Just be aware of where the money is coming from, and who is doing the giving.

Soros' assistance may be helpful now - the point here is to not let it come back and bite us in the ass later. See, it's time WE worked the system against THEM, however we can, while still keeping our principles in place.

I love MoveOn. Never said "stop supporting it", and wouldn't suggest that at this point. Just keep your eyes peeled. That's the crux of my point.

[CivilRightsNow]

91. They are pushing the buttons from both sides

Who does this guy support to take over Bush's presidency? Lemme guess, Wesley Clark.

Vin Webber is perhaps one of the most corrupt low down dirty people you can possibly do business with, him and Kissinger. The NED is one completely fucked up propaganda spin marketing machine disguised as a think tank.

This guy has the same a agenda as everyone pulling the current shots, he is just making sure that his interests are secure no matter how it goes.

[DrBlix]

159. Soros is exercising "Controlled Opposition"

This is nothing new to Soros or any of them for that matter. They exercise "Controlled Opposition". Soros's phony philanthropy "open Society" and all his phony foundations is nothing more than playing both sides against the middle. He's been doing it for years, in countries worldwide and in the end he picks up his chips and moves on to another country....it's our turn as far as Soros is concerned. Rockefeller's method......Philanthropy = Profit = Power. Don't kid yourselves this man isn't doing anyone any favors. He paves the way for the World Bank/IMF when that all fails they bomb the shit out of them....He is only interested in lining his pockets and globalization.

[Tinoire]

126. Soros in a Major Fight with Putin now about that Oil Scandal?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


No no, this is looking not good at all!

"Soros's foundation left 'paralysed' after raid"
Posted by Stevie D
Moscow- Fifteen years since it started work in post-Soviet Russia, US billionaire George Soros's foundation has been "paralysed" after 50 camouflage-clad men seized its Moscow offices and removed computer records and archives.

Yekaterina Geniyeva, the head of Soros's Open Society Institute in Russia, told journalists yesterday that the raid, ordered by the building's owner ostensibly because of a dispute over rent, appeared to be politically motivated.

The raid, at about midnight on Thursday, came just days after Soros publicly criticized the jailing of Russian oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky as "persecution" that would force business to submit to the state.

The organisation had lost all information on its 1,000 grant recipients.

<snip>

source: http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=565&fArtic...
_____________________________________________________________________
So is this why Soros, a prominent member of the Carlyle Group, now suddenly has it in for the Bushes? And, can a relationship be drawn regarding Poppy Bush and his recent visit to Russia to meet with Putin?

[hang a left]

127. Here is a little more information

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Tinoire]

148. Soros and Afghanistan - It just doesn't stop!

This is not a case of narcissistic personality disorder; this is how George Soros exercises the authority of United States hegemony in the world today. Soros foundations and financial machinations are partly responsible for the destruction of socialism in Eastern Europe and the former USSR. He has set his sights on China. He was part of the full court press that dismantled Yugoslavia. Calling himself a philanthropist, billionaire George Soros' role is to tighten the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain. Soros' commercial and "philanthropic" operations are clandestine, contradictory and coactive. And as far as his economic activities are concerned, by his own admission, he is without conscience; a capitalist who functions with absolute amorality.

<snip>

George Soros' activities fall into the construct developed in 1983 and enunciated by Allen Weinstein, founder of the National Endowment for Democracy. Weinstein said, "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA."32 Soros is operating exactly within the confines of the intelligence complex. He is little different from CIA drug runners in Laos in the 1960s, or the mujahedin who profited from the opium trade while carrying out CIA operations against socialist Afghanistan in the 1980s. He simply funnels (and takes home) a whole lot more money than those pawns, and he does much of his business in the light of day. His candor insofar as he expresses it is a sort of spook damage control that serves to legitimize the strategies of U.S. foreign policy.

<snip>
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d1207hc.htm

[dusty64]

29. Finally

some good news to wake up to. His $$$$$ can do a lot of excellent things here.

[rocktivity]

30. Good! He can start by investing in this liberal news network

we keep hearing rumors about. Gore is supposed to be involved in one, the BBC is supposed to be involved in one. Is is going to materialize in time for it to do any good?


rocknation

[GOPBasher]

31. I love this guy.

What first-class human being. He obviously cares much more about the state of humanity than he does about his money.

[rman]

35. cares enough about money to get invloved with Carlyle and BCCI

-

[Noordam]

32. I smell a Texas Project

[ignatius]

37. Wow, this is awesome. A person who has lived in a facist state is able to

recognize what the BFEE is trying to accomplish.

Bless you, Mr. Soros, and for God's sake, watch your back. These people are ruthless.

[Gin]

38. You go George. If there is anything these thugs in office listen to it's

money.

Prune bush!

[Beetwasher]

39. Here Comes The CAVALRY!

Wooo Hoo!

Someone send Soros a white hat!

THANK YOU GEORGE SOROS!!!

[leesa]

42. What a guy! I love this man. Come on all you other rich decent people

You must be out there. The RNC will go after him like mad dogs for doing what they do continuously and usually illegally.

[Timefortruth]

44. Someone let him know that it’s time to beef up security!

PLEASE!!!!!!

This is as dangerous an act that a man can take. Does he know the risk?

I suggested in GD that he put a few billion in a trust to be transferred to progressive causes immediately upon his death if it occurs before November ’04. That will insure his health, and that his planes stay in the air. It would be real life insurance, because they could make it look like natural causes also.

[hang a left]

49. Soros is an "Untouchable"

THAT you can take to the bank!

[nolabels]

52. Now that is true humor, should tell him to stay off even big planes too

Aircraft Downed During the Cold War and Thereafter

Last revised: September 6 2003
http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/ColdWar.html

http://www.celebratetoday.com/airdis.html
Do Not Enter
If You Are About to Fly
The following page is the complete listing from Airplane Disasters, by John Kremer. This file features more than two thousand airplane crashes, near misses, and related accidents organized by date.
(snip)

[DoYouEverWonder]

54. Hey, is his money green?

Then I say take it and use it well.

Whatever his motives are, he happens to be on our side at the moment. Who woulda thunk it?