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Bush-Nazi Link Confirmed (J. Buchanan/New Hampshire Gazette)

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:00 AM
Original message
Bush-Nazi Link Confirmed (J. Buchanan/New Hampshire Gazette)

Bush-Nazi Link Confirmed
Documents in National Archives Prove
George W. Bush's Grandfather Traded
with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor

By John Buchanan
Exclusive to The New Hampshire Gazette
10-10-3

WASHINGTON -- After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush and his "enemy national" partners.

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s, personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion of democratic principle and German law.

Furthermore, the declassified records demonstrate that Bush and his associates, who included E. Roland Harriman, younger brother of American icon W. Averell Harriman, and George Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather, continued their dealings with the German industrial tycoon for nearly a year after the U.S. entered the war.

No Story?

For six decades these historical facts have gone unreported by the mainstream U.S. media. The essential facts have appeared on the Internet and in relatively obscure books, but were dismissed by the media and Bush family as undocumented diatribes. This story has also escaped the attention of "official" Bush biographers, Presidential historians and publishers of U.S. history books covering World War II and its aftermath.

The White House did not respond to phone calls seeking comment.


Much more of interest in full text of article on rense.com:
http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm

The New Hampshire Gazette web site (article not yet posted there, apparently):
http://www.nhgazette.com /

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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Like father, like son and grandson...
The Bushies are still doing business with the bin Ladens and the Saudi royal family, even after 9-11. Some things just never change.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. and great-grandfather too
old Samuel Prescott Bush made a good chunk of change selling firearms during WW one-

to both sides...

it's genetic with these people
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Where's the money?
The BFEE pocketed a lot of Nazi gold for what they did. Where is it now? Financing political campaigns? Buying media moguls and airtime? Buying recall signatures? Buying voting machines? Developing propaganda factories? Where is it George?
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. two words- blind trust
poppy put all the money in a blind trust for George back when he was a chimplet
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Who is the fiduciary?
And what have they chosen to do with it?
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. no idea...
I'm sure the info is out there, but I don't recall where I heard it..
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
45. Farrish - see below in my last post
nt
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. It's the base of their fortune....
It was put into oil and poppy Bush's political career. It was small potatoes compared to what they've been pulling in since the 1960's.

But the fact is: The Bush Political "Dynasty" was built on Nazi Income.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Shouldn't this "fact"
have disqualified the BFEE from public service, been grounds for confiscation of their loot, and/or worse? How would Al Gore been affected if his father had made a fortune selling drugs (a far lesser crime)?
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Um .... "American icon Averill Harriman" was Prescott's bidness partner.
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
8. "about George W. Bush, Adolph Hitler, and Abraham Lincoln.
Hmmm - interesting post from "ex-Libertarian "


"Now, I must warn all people about George W. Bush, Adolph Hitler, and Abraham Lincoln.

<snip>


"They came to power over their nations near the dates of 2001, 1930, and 1859, which are the first three dates in the "zero" column of the "moon matrix" that I have derived. (Hitler became Chancellor in 1933, and Lincoln took office as President in 1861.)

I believe that all three men are designed to destroy their nations.

Lincoln and Hitler succeeded. Bush now appears to be operating very energetically to do the same. I believe that the mission of these men is to progressively create a nest for the sons of Satan.

Lincoln and Hitler both died in office at the age of 56. Bush is now in his 56th year but is not yet 56. Lincoln died 62 days after his 56th birthday, and Hitler died 10 or 11 days after his 56th birthday."

<snip>

LINK to above post - MORE

Hmmm - sumthing to think about !!

Lessee

Hitler died in the latter part of April 1945

GeeDubya was Born July 1946

So if Hitlers "soul" was floating around in pergatory for a few months - it was available for Geedubya's "conception" -

SCARY !!
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. Well, I'm convinced. n/t
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lightbulb Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
116. LOL
BullGooseLoony! :toast:
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
40. the moon matrix?
*snarf*
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PatrickBSF Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
51. Nation Needing Destroying?
Unfortunate for your equating Lincoln with Hitler.

If anything, the disparate elements of the US in pre-1860 NEEDED dissolution -- perhaps destroying is too strong a word.

The country that emerged from the Civil War was better in many ways, but worse in countless others. Not unlike today's.

But Lincoln was not remotely like Hitler.

Lincoln was a president who took the job under the worst circumstances possible and worked all day, every day, to find solutions. He was killed just as the chance to pursue his centrist reconstruction ideas was presenting itself.

Moon or no moon, Lincoln resembles Hitler or Dubya and clan in NO WAY. He was a Republican back when the word actually meant something.

It might feel good to bash him (trendy or cool) but there's a core dishonesty to your critique.
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saskatoon Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
69. What's your name again?
Screwloose
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
90. That sounds like a lot of ...
HORSE HOCKEY! :crazy:
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. drip drip drip
i think the water is starting to simmer.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. BFEE is only part of worldwide Third Reich profiteer underground
that started with Hitler and the Nazi inner circle and today produces clones and terminator seeds, particle beam weapons parked in space and lots of other 21st Century stuff.

Here in America the original intelligence failure was the inclusion of real Nazis {PAPERCLIP cases} into the formation of the CIA and other national security organs in 1947.

Back to Prescott and Co.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ROG309A.html

Many Hitler admirers were captains of industry and world class folk like Henry Ford and Mr. Wallace of IBM.
IBM and Auschwitz.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0241/black.php

Corporate Traitors
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/waryearsp5.html

Banks
http://www.archives.gov/research_room/holocaust_era_ass...

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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. Your thread was one of the best
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
66. Yes it was
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
54. The vanquished are often footnotes
How are they all connected, somebody asks. Follow the money. Here is a nice long one that connnects a lot of them also. A new name to add to my list for people to look for is the "Rothschilds"


(snip)
1895 - Rothschilds begin to finance American business.They do so primarily
through the Warburgs of Germany who were partners of Kuhn, Loeb and Company
of New York. Both Warburgs and Kuhn/Loeb would be principals of Federal
Reserve Board. Rothschilds would finance Rockefeller's Standard Oil,
Carnegie Steel, and the Harriman Railroad system.



1896 - McKinley elected president. Marcus Alonzo Hannah from Standard Oil
of Ohio raised 16 Million dollars for campaign, otherwise unheard of until
1960's.

(snip)

(snip)
1922 - Benito Mussolini takes power in Italy, furthers Fascism. Pope Pius
XI takes over. Tries more middle of the road approach to dealing with
Soviet Union, but hopes for collapse of revolution so Vatican can regain
power in Eastern Europe. Federal Narcotics Control Board formed. Military
intelligence targets organizations like the International Workers, (IWW),
World War Veterans, Communist Party, American Federation of Labor, and
others for anti-subversion surveillance and action. Efforts are possibly
influenced by the National Association of Manufacturers, a known fascist
anti-labor organization. W. Avrell Harriman of the firm W.A. Harriman & Co.
meets with Fritz Thyssen, German industrialist to discuss setting up a bank
for Thyssen in America. By Personal agreement between Harriman and Thyssen,
the plan for Union Banking Corp. Was agreed to. Sometime before 1924 a
Thyssen representative, H.J. Kouwehnoven came to the United States for
talks with Harriman. By 1924, Union Banking was a quiet part of W.A.
Harriman & Co., who would be joint owner and manager of Thyssen's banking
business outside of Germany.
(snip)

http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=341305&g...
(snip)
. ARNOLD, BUFFET AND THE ROTHSCHILDS IN A SECRET MEETING IN 2002 IN ENGLAND!

XI. ARNOLD'S CAMPAIGN DECIDED IN THE AMERICAN FASHION--ENTIRELY IN SECRET, AT BOHEMIAN GROVE.

XII. DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS BOTH WANT TO REMOVE CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATIONS ON THE FOREIGN BORN FOR THE PRESIDENCY--SETTING UP UNREPENTANT NAZI ARNOLD FOR THE NEXT G.H.W. BUSH PRESIDENCY
(snip)

I listened to another story on the radio Saturday morning on how the ROTHSCHILDS own voting machine manufactures in europe and have also have a lot of money into the few others. Also a few stories about how Arnold boasted about he was going to be the governor of California way before it ever got put in the mill and such. These are just rumors but it would fit the MO of Arnold and the ROTHSCHILDS are real people.

Does anyone have any stuff on ROTHSCHILDS and voting machines?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. WOW.
eom
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. I don't have anything on the Rothschilds but
Richard Soudrettie is the international equalivant of our own R Doug Lewis. Google him and the first thing that comes up is some connection to the CIA and Nicaragua in 1989-90. Peace Corp 1988. Now he travels all over the world pushing these machines, that's all he's about, President of the Foundation for Election Systems. Born June 28, 1953 and graduated from University of Tulsa 1975 and University of Oklahoma 1976. Staff director for James Inhofe. Some involvement with the American Enterprise Institute.
That's all I know so far but its 7 times more that I know about Lewis.
He has no bio. Soudrettie and Lewis, salesmen of touchscreens to the world! Such dedication to their product. Who are these guys, who hired them?
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. All roads lead to Tulsa
//Who are these guys, who hired them?//

for what its worth .....here's my guess

WARREN BUFFET


remember the Arnie, Rothchild, Buffett pic

Diebold is one of Warren's stock pics

Urosevich brothers lead back to Tulsa
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. And from Tulsa is where I think they picked up the embryo of Enron
I thought I heard something about where some of the double dealers picked up their tactics with natural gas and trading with some natural gas pipeline company

Anyway to answer another question I had I found this stuff

http://www.rense.com/general31/roth.htm
(snip)
Rense.com



Rothschilds Famliy Part Owner
Largest Voting Machine Company
Posted at SF Indymedia.org
11-11-2
The Rothschilds are part owners of voting machines.

These infamous international private bankers are only by chance involved in this?
Just like they were by chance involved in Enron?

http://www.talion.com/voting-machines.html

Charter Oak Partners, an affiliate of Rothschild Realty Inc., which is an affiliate of Rothschild, Inc.

Rothschilds Inc is the same as The Rothschild family bank

Take a look at this court document -
http://www.state.vt.us/psd/6107/6107wlr.pdf

Here is the qoute:

Q. What is your occupation?

A. I am a Senior Managing Director at Rothschild Inc., the United States affiliate of the 200 year old worldwide Rothschild Group.


Want to know more about the Rothschilds?
See their website http://www.nmrothschild.com

About Election Systems & Software
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

ES&S

Q: What does ES&S do?

A: Election Systems & Software, Inc. (ES&S) is the world's largest election management company. Headquartered in Omaha, Nebraska with over 400 employees located in eight regional U.S. offices and agents on five continents, ES&S has supported more than 40,000 elections worldwide for over 30 years. In the 2000 U.S. elections alone, ES&S systems counted over 100 million ballots. ES&S' hardware and software solutions support the entire election process to include voter registration, ballot production, voting, vote tabulation, and results reporting.

Electronic Ballot, Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) Voting Systems - The iVotronic, Votronic and V-2000 are decentralized touch screen / touch-panel voting systems that count and tabulate electronic ballots at the polling place, as votes are cast.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

They were also behind the whole Enron debacle.
Now they will be in charge of the software that runs the voting machines.
The other owners have simular NWO backgrounds as well.

Some related article links -

How will we survive without Lord Fixit?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/...36,00.html
(snip)

Here is a nice little link with a thousand more attached to it.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/votefraud.html
(snip)
ELECTION FRAUD 2002
It's all here, too much to read in one day. I suggest you get a cup of coffee and start out by reading Votescam. Votescam lays out the blueprint that everything else is essentially built apon. Save for future reference and send out to everyone!

"The concept is clear, simple, and it works. Computerized voting gives the power of selection, without fear of discovery, to whomever controls the computer," - James & Kenneth Collier, authors of VoteScam (1992)
"There are no documented cases of electronic vote-rigging occurring anywhere in the country, but only because it's nearly impossible to prove."
"Hand counting is the gold standard against which we check machine counting efficiency." - James Baker
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything."
- Joseph Stalin
"I think it is safe to say at this point that the election of 2002 lacks any credibility at this point. Too many "mistakes", too many malfunctions, too many missing documents, too many dirty tricks, all combine to destroy the illusion that the results to be announced have any basis other than in wishful thinking by those in control of the vote counting process. Certainly the sudden abandonment of the VNS exit polls suggests that the actual polling results are so far out of alignment with the desired results that the media predictions had to be shut down."
(snip)
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. And a flight path too?
Didn't georgie end up with Warren on 9-11?

You've gotta take that road from Tulsa to California, where the bagman for the Urosevich brothers lives, billionaire Howard Ahmanson.
Mr. Theonomic Reconstructionist, himself. Now there's a scary crowd. Biblical law TRUMPS civil law! He built a nice bank for his money in Santa Monica, Italian Fascist architecture was the style, one of 60 some Home Savings buildings designed and decorated for Howard by Millard Sheets.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. Richard McGarrah Helms family was also very close to Third Reich
just like Lalia Helms was spokesperson and PR for pro-Taleban faction in U.S.

Gates McGarrah {Helms maternal gramps} became the first President of the Bank of International Settlements/BIS in 1930. The BIS was originally the dream of future Nazi Economic Minister Hljmar Schact.

Richard Helms drew attention as a young UPI reporter that had a world exclusive interview with Adolph Hitler in 1936. I don't doubt the clout Gates had with that.

I could go on and on about Richard McGarrah Helms but it's late and a bit off-topic.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. Highlight:
In 1926, after Prescott Bush had married Walker's daughter, Dorothy, Walker brought Bush in as a vice president of the private banking and investment firm of W.A. Harriman & Co., also located in New York. Bush became a partner in the firm that later became Brown Brothers Harriman and the largest private investment bank in the world. Eventually, Bush became a director of and stockholder in UBC.

However, the government documents note that Bush, Harriman, Lievense and the other UBC stockholders were in fact "nominees," or phantom shareholders, for Thyssen and his Holland bank, meaning that they acted at the direct behest of their German client.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. It's in the National Archives
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. By the way, notice that the media only reports this AFTER CA proves that
America is willing to give a fascist nazi-sympathizer enough votes to become governor.

I think we're going to see efforts by the right to make America comfortable with fascism before they try to bring it on fully.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Bread and Circus time-American style
eom
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Gold teeth, Auschwitz and George Bush
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. The Mother of all Bush/Nazi links
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
20. I.G. Farben link
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. After Pearl harbor, and after 9/11
The Bush family makes millions.

What's wrong with this picture?

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. And let's not forget the Dulles brothers
Wasn't it Allen who was the first CIA head? They brought a lot of Nazis into the CIA, and then they also populated various RNC organizations. Remember that ole GHW had to let go of one of his campaign people because his Nazi ties were revealed I vaguely remember that episode from the news -- we all shoulda been paying MUCH more attention.

So, basically, we defeated Nazi fascism in Germany, only to import it here and keep it quite alive, tho mostly subterranean, but this fascist stuff is in their blood.

GHWB also has quite a few ties with the whole eugenics scene as well. And frankly the kinds of experiments on human beings that the Nazi scientists and medical doctors used to do. There's actually quite a bit of evidence that our troops have been used for experiments, including some of the vaccines they've been forced to take (esp. Gulf War I vets).

Once upon a time had a lot of links on these subjects, til my hard disk crashed a few weeks ago (probably from the weight of the sheer horror I was collecting in all those bookmarks! Toxic overload!)

But the point is that the U.S. has endured an unbroken line of heavy-duty fascist influence and infiltration, tho a good bit of it went quite subterranean, thanks greatly to the Bush Crime Family. And that's no tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, either. We just let them get away with it because we weren't willing to look at what was really going on. "It can't happen here," and all that jazz.

Eloriel
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. MY What a Tangled Web we Weave (Bush/Dulles/Arnold/vandamm)
When we practice to deceive!

While serving as chairman of the Republican National Committee, the elder George Bush shepherded the Nazi migr community into position as a permanent branch of the Republican Party. It was Bush who fulfilled Nixons promise to make the ethnic emigres a permanent part of Republican politics. In 1972, Nixons State Department spokesman confirmed to his Australian counterpart that the ethnic groups were very useful to get out the vote in several key states. Bushs tenure as head of the Republican National Committee exactly coincided with Laszlo Pasztors 1972 drive to transform the Heritage Groups Council into the partys official ethnic arm. The groups Pasztor chose as Bushs campaign allies were the migr Fascists whom Dulles had brought to the United States.(Ibid.; pp. 369-370.)
. Nearly twenty years later, and after exposes in several respectable newspapers, Bush continued to recruit most of the same ethnic Fascists, including Pasztor, for his own 1988 ethnic outreach program when he first ran for president. (Ibid.; pp. 370-371.)
Of interest in this context is the fact that it was the Dulles milieu that vetted Arnold Schwarzeneggers Nazi war criminal friend Kurt Waldheim for his first job in the Austrian government. The background check on Waldheim was performed by Dulles son-in-law Fritz Molden. Both Gruber and Molden had strong ties to U.S. intelligence. Molden actually wound up marrying the daughter of OSS (later CIA) chief Allen Dulles, for whom he had worked during the war . . . Gruber turned the background investigation over to Molden. In turn, Molden asked his friends in American intelligence to check Waldheim out. This was, of course, redundant. Eventually, Molden reported to Gruber that his contacts had investigated and found no material on him, nothing, nothing. (Waldheim: The Missing Years; by Robert Edwin Hertzstein; Copyright 1988 by Robert Edwin Herzstein; Arbor House/William Morrow ; ISBN 0-87795-959-5; pp. 168-169.)
Among the Nazis brought into the country by Dulles & co. was Otto von Bolschwing. Von Bolschwings protg Helene Van Damm selected all of the personnel from which Ronald Reagan made his appointments when he was Governor of California. She performed the same function when he became President. Note in this context the above discussion about the Third Reichs plans to have young girls establish sexual liaisons with Allied troops. (For more about the Van Damm/von Bolschwing connection, seeamong other programsFTR#s 180, 332, 399, as well as RFAs 3, 32, available from Spitfire.) Eichmann was replaced on the Middle Eastern scene by a far more skilled intelligence officer, Otto von Bolschwing. Before World War II, von Bolschwing set up an import-export business in Palestine as a cover for his espionage activities. He was an educated man from a good family and an enthusiastic supporter of Hitler. After the war, von Bolschwing became one of Allen Dulless senior agents in the CIA. (Ibid.; p. 46.)
Eventually, Van Damm became U.S. ambassador to Austria. (She married a hotelier and divorced him. He later committed suicide. Her second husband was Christian Van Damm. He became head of the Bank of Americas La Paz, Bolivia Branch at the time that Klaus Barbies cocafascisti were holding forth in that country. For more about Barbie, seeamong other programsRFA#s 3, 17, 19, available from Spitfire.) Dulles helped von Bolschwing emigrate to California, where he established a business association with Helen van Damm, later Ronald Reagans ambassador to Austria. In later years, his business went bankrupt and he was forced to surrender his American citizenship on the grounds that he was a Nazi war criminal. (Idem.)
Van Damm and Schwarzenegger are not strangers. Arnolds business partner and mentor, Jim Lorimer, whether by accident or design, was in Vienna, and, cautious for a moment, Arnold left Brigitte behind at the Hilton while he and Jim had Sunday brunch with the American ambassador to Austria, Helene Van Damm. (Arnold: The Education of a Bodybuilder; p. 216.)
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Oh, makes the head swim
Do you have links for this? What is the first ibid referring to?

I think I'm going to throw up now.

Eloriel
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. yes
//Do you have links for this?//

Pump This: The Schwarzenegger File

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f421.html

www.wfmu.org/playlists/dx
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suegeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
64. Russ Bellant's book
Edited on Sun Oct-12-03 02:43 PM by suegeo
Bellant wrote a book, first published in late 80s, early 90s, about the Nazis and Nazi supporters, and how they were brought into the Republican party. The book also touches on the fact that Poppy Bush had former (former??? Isn't it, once a Nazi, always a Nazi?) nazis working on his campaign.

I'm off to Amazon to look up the title, and exact spelling of the author's name. Then I will post it here

The book is worth is read.

ON EDIT
Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party by Russ Bellant
Publisher: South End Press; 3rd edition (June 1998)
ISBN: 0896084191
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
24. HS Weathernet Swastika
Uh George , is that why those pesky swastikas are in my Homeland security logo?

These guy's are a PR mans nightmare

http://www.submunition.com/mtype/archives/000284.php
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. You know, I feel certain
that whoever designed that was doing a sytlized iris or even camera lens -- but I'm of the firm belief that artists pick up "from the ethers" (for want of a better term) the zeitgeist and represent it for all to see, all who can see. IOW: ain't exactly a coincidence, tho it's also IMO not a conscious fascist representation.

Other examples have included movies that ended up being prophetic (Wag the Dog), or even the work of Jules Verne and that cartoonist from the 40s, both of whom represented technological advances which could barely be imagined in their time. Or the "hallucinatory" art of the 60s.

Eloriel
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. i agree
These #$$%^% are so in your face, they want to telegragh their moves .....so we can watch the horror unfold in slow motion.

symbology and Hollywood is their twisted little game

Hollywood is the opiate, symbology and numeralogy are your slap in the face.
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rawtribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
72. fake logo (but funny!)
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic /

That's not the logo on the DHS web site.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. and if your Real brave
and care to listen to a few thousand hours of recorded REAL player files....you'll find out how the islamofascists tie into all this.

Start with the file on Martin Bormann and the underground Reich
FTR305?....and buy a couple pair of undies

www.spitfirelist.com
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
26. Want REALLY cheap labor to make arms to fire at the Allies? Auschwitz
In the 1990s, former U.S. Justice Department Nazi war crimes prosecutor John Loftus, now honorary president of the Florida Holocaust Museum, wrote a book and launched a web site (<>www.john-loftus.com ) which did breakthrough reporting, including establishing the link between Prescott Bush, Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and forced labor at Auschwitz. Although the widely-respected Loftus established a successful international speaking career with his information, no U.S. newspaper or major TV news program acknowledged his decade of work, nor did he ever see many of the recently released documents.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
27. Hardly a current event
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 09:16 AM by Jack Rabbit
This may show that the Bush family trait of dealing with unsavory characters and concealing it has a long and inglorious history. This makes interesting reading, but is not an immediate concern.

The immediate concern is the Frat Boy's dealings with unsavory types who run multinational corporations, not his grandfather's dealings with Nazis.

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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. It's a concern because they HONOR this man
Jeb was just off a month or so ago to an event honoring this traitor. The fact that they think he was a good man and that his treason against the US is honored should be cause for concern.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Then you're missing the whole damn point, Jack Rabbit
The POINT is this: there is an unbroken line of fascism in U.S. government and politics from before WW2. I'll say it again: we defeated fascism in Germany and Italy, but we didn't defeat it totally or forever. If anything, we drove it ever so slightly underground.

The primary (remaining) nexus of all this fascism can be found in the Bush Family. Or perhaps you hadn't noticed we've become a fascist state? It's NOT an accident.

Is it a grand conspiracy? Perhaps not. I rather think "it's just the way they naturally are." And that wouldn't take any conspiracy at all, would it?

Eloriel
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MaryBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. I agree.
Family is family. I'm pretty sure my ancestors were at least peripherally involved in genocide against California natives, and I am ashamed of that, but I still am proud of their survival as pioneers. We need to focus on chimpy's current misdeeds. There are plenty!
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. The point is they ARE NOT ashamed of it!
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MaryBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. How do you know that?
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. The Nazis did not go away, Jack. They are an uninterrupted event for years
.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. Did you ever wonder what happened to all those NAZI spys after the war?
They got invited over here to help us give the business to the Commies. Then, thanks to Operation PAPERCLIP, they settled here to live nice, normal lives. Nice huh?

Behold a nice reader, courtesy of some real journalist at Consortium News:

CIA at 50: Still Hiding Its 'Original' Nazi Sin

By Martin A. Lee

For U.S. policy-makers, the 50th anniversary of the founding of the Central Intelligence Agency on Sept. 8 provides yet another opportunity for congratulatory pronouncements about "winning the Cold War." But the American public would be better served if U.S. officials marked the occasion by owning up to the CIA's "original sin," which dates back to the spy agency's earliest days: its covert use of a Nazi spy network brimming with war criminals.

U.S. spy chiefs protected this cast of killers so they ostensibly could help counter the Soviet threat. But for the next five decades, this decision -- the ultimate practice of situational ethics -- loosened up Washington's tolerance for human rights abuses and a variety of other crimes in the name of anti-communism. The consequences continue to this day, with a resurgent neo-fascist movement in Europe that can trace its ideological lineage back to Adolf Hitler's Third Reich, through some of the men who served the CIA.

The key player on the German side of this unholy alliance was Gen. Reinhard Gehlen, a thin, bespectacled espionage prodigy who was Hitler's top anti-Soviet spy. Gehlen oversaw all of Germany's military-intelligence capabilities throughout Eastern Europe and the U.S.S.R.

As the war drew to a close, the crafty Gehlen surmised that the grand anti-fascist coalition -- led by the United States, Great Britain and the Soviet Union -- would not survive the peace. Gehlen also recognized that U.S. intelligence operations, largely an anti-Nazi improvisation, would be ill-prepared to wage a sustained shadow struggle against the U.S.S.R.

So, at war's end, Gehlen opted to surrender to the Americans. He offered to turn over the vast espionage archive on the U.S.S.R. that he had accumulated for Hitler. Plus, he said he could activate an underground army of battle-hardened anti-communists in Eastern Europe for Cold War duty.

CONTINUED...

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story41.html
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. The American Nazis, too.
Lots were rounded up and put in internment centers where they became even more Nazified. These folks weren't sent out of the US when the war was over; they stayed right here.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #42
52. Some US towns became enclaves of Nazis and their families
like White Sands NM. It wasn't just the CIA, it was DoD too. Many of these Nazis were war criminals, sentenced to die.

SS General Walter Dornberger was in charge of construction and production at the terrorist rocket center of Peenemunde which was dug out of a mountain by the hands of slaves from the Dora camp. When production lagged slaves would be hung by the dozens their bodies left hanging for days as an incentive to produce. General Dornberger was in charge of that. He became VP of Bell Aircraft and sold a lot of Hueys in Vietnam also came up with charming designation V-22 {so like V-2} as a PAPERCLIP US nazi.

Werner von Braun was SS. The former head of the WWII Luftwaffe Institute for Aviation Dr. Hubertus Strughold who oversaw the infamous human experimentation using Auschwitz inmates became NASA's "father of space medicine" and taught at Brooks AFB, Texas School of Aviation Medicine.

Nazis. I hate Nazis. I will never forget.

DoD nazis
http://www.goordnance.apg.army.mil/OPpaperclip.htm

http://www.infoage.org/paperclip.html
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morebunk Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
28. No wonder Bush will support Arnie and vice versa.
Birds of a feather. They know each other.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
120. The Triumph of the shill
new material from Dave...outlines the Arnold coup for California and puts some very interesting choices and proposals by Schwarxenegger into contoxt.The moniker is a play on "the Triumph of the will"- The nazi propagada film that helped place Hitler into power

http://spitfirelist.com/ftr.html scroll down -2 real audio files

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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hot Damn! This
will be getting into the mainstream soon. :bounce:

:toast: to you all and those who sought for so many years to expose this.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. E-Mail this to a newsroom near you!
Hee haw! Hee haw! HA HA HA HA (maniacal DemoDonkey laugh)!!!!

Here's to ya, 9215!

:toast:



Need to keep it up to make sure this Turd's toast, too.

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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
43. Farrish, Bush the Nazis and What's Happ'nin' now
Edited on Sat Oct-11-03 10:27 PM by seventhson
From this:
http://home.att.net/~m.standridge/hera.htm :


One other very important Far Right connection for George Bush must be brought out. William Stamps Farrish had been a top head of the Standard Oil Company going into World War II. He was indicted for treason, after it was discovered by Congressional investigators that he had not only withheld important new rubber technologies from the U.S. Navy, he had given those same technologies to the Nazis. He also sold oil and gasoline to the Nazis at a time when this was definitely illegal. He also encouraged Standard Oil's tankers to refuel Nazi u-boats in the Atlantic in 1941 and '42, when they were engaged in warfare against American shipping. He also worked with the Nazis to help them fly spies and propaganda into South America and, from there, into the U.S. He also helped them fly in illegal drugs.

In November, 1942, at the same time that Prescott Bush was being indicted for violating the Trading With the Enemy Act, Farrish was called before the Congress by then-Senator Harry S. Truman. Truman afterwards affirmed that Farrish had engaged in treason against the U.S. A few days later, Farrish died, possibly a suicide, possibly a heart attack, possibly something else. In 1948, George Bush became a business associate of Farrish's grandson, William Stamps Farrish III. Farrish had made several million dollars off the patents he sold the Nazis. His grandson inherited this money and used it to finance George Bush's congressional and presidential campaigns. Bush also used money from William Draper, a founder of the Auschwitz concentration camp who made millions off the sale of chemicals used to make poison gas to kill Jews in the camps. Draper stashed this money away in various banks around the world. After the war, Bush used it to finance his campaign

Why is this significant? Because George Bush was financially in hoc to the Far Right in any political endeavor he undertook, due to this money. Allen Dulles, Bush's father's attorney, had also illegally sneaked millions of dollars out of Nazi Germany that he had made off the operations of Hitler's Third Reich in various capacities, all illegal. Dulles gave much of this money to Prescott Bush. Prescott in turn saw that some of it made it to George's campaigns, adding to his obligation to eugenicists, such as his own father, and Nazi-sympathizers like Dulles, Farrish, Draper, Pasztor and Stesko.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. So it's true.
Edited on Sun Oct-12-03 12:23 AM by Buzzz
By this account the Farrish grandson has already used the Nazi loot to help finance Old George's campaigns. If he is indeed the fiduciary of the Bush blind trust then one might easily conclude that he's used some of it to help finance Little George's campaigns as well. And God knows what else.

Sobering stuff. Thorough independent investigation warranted IMO.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Let's not forget Karl Rove...
KARL ROVERER AKA CARL ROVE DUAL CITIZEN OF GERMANY AND U.S/
<http://www.wiolawapress.com/karl.htm >

"The leaker, it turns out, was none other than the notorious Karl H. Rove, Bushs so-called White House advisor. Ambassador Wilson identified him as Karl Roverer, with the umlaut over the "o."

According to reliable sources, as well as our own Al Martin Raw.com investigation, Karl Rove is, in fact, the grandson of Karl Heinz Roverer, the gauleiter of Mecklenburg, who was also a partner and senior engineer of Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurbro AG. They built Birchenau, the concentration camp in Nazi Germany."
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Rove is not forgotten
n/t
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Hasn't this been proven incorrect?
Don't get me wrong - I HATE the traitor Rove - but I think this story turned up bogus?

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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. I heard
that the Mecklenburg part was incorrect....there are others still working on this. The line about him being adopted by a nice Mormon family could be cover though. Details are murky..so no conclusions can be drawn.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-11-03 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
47. Extra! Extra! Read all about it HERE!
"George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography"
By Tarpley

http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

It's all there, Poppy's "Bonesman" year,how he bailed out of a perfectly good airplane and killed his crew, Why possibly Prescott "got away" with his "Trading with The Enemy" (the Fed prosecuted one old bastard who up and died on them during the trial. Very Messy.)

And....The interest of the BFEE in Eugenics.
Just read it.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
50. Kick it up for the Sunday-Morning Coffee Bunch...
This is too important to let die, IMO....
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Nottingham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
53. I am not surprised at all!
:bounce:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
55. Kick.
:dem:
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
59. Don't like being scooped by Rense
We don't have flying saucer stories at Take Back the Media.. and we DID post this story before anyone else (even the New Hampshire Gazette) :)

What we DO have is the flash movie that inspired this writer to GO to the National Archives and look this stuff up..

"Bush is not a Nazi - so stop saying that.."

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

We're gonna have more goodies at TBTM about this..
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
81. SYMBOLMAN!
You do great work, and I and everyone here appreciate it. Looking forward to following anything you can give us to bring this subject to a wider audience--sans UFOs and all.

I'm an ol' fart and I'm sometimes appalled at how undereducated the 20 somethings I know are. I understand their medium is not the printed word (as it was my generation). Everyone, regardless of their age, needs to understand that whether you call it Nazi-ism, Fascism, Far Right Ultra-conservatism, Elitist Corporat Capitalism, New World Order Globalism... in a way it doesn't matter. The up-shot is THERE ARE A VERY FEW INDIVIDUALS ON THIS PLANET WHO ARE SELECTIVELY MAKING DECISIONS THAT EFFECT THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE. Whether out of pig-headed ignorance or greed or both, I don't know but, if I'm reading the mid to long-range tea leaves right, THE MAJORITY OF THE HUMAN RACE IS BEING DRIVEN TOWARD A CATASTROPHIC NEAR EXTINCTION EVENT THAT, IF THEY HAVE THEIR WAY, WILL BE IMPROPERLY ATTRIBUTED BY FUTURE HISTORIANS.

Some say I am paranoid. I don't think so. I've been watching this movement my whole life. The events of 9/11 were not a surprise to me. I'd been expecting 'something' like this to happen--an event that would further justify the erosion of the Constitution.

Now we hear our (so called) vice president say (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8205-200... ) "Instead of losing thousands of lives, we might lose tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of lives in a single day of horror." Other people, Warren Buffett (the second wealthiest man in the world, I'm told, at Offutt AFB with * on 9/11), for example, has been saying the same thing to corporate heads for over a year:

Warren Buffett, the stock market guru known as the Sage of Omaha, says that businesses and insurers should prepare themselves for a nuclear attack by terrorists.

Mr Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway investment vehicle and other insurers absorbed $70bn (48bn) of losses from the destruction of the World Trade Centre towers and he believes worse could come.

"The capability to strike using nuclear, chemical or biological devices isn't there yet but it will be," he said at his three-day annual meeting for investors, which has been dubbed Woodstock for Capitalists.
"People are working on it. It could make the World Trade Centre loss look like nothing." - Guardian (5/06/02)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,710...


I appreciate the HEADS UP, Warren.

When these people speak, I listen. They know what they are talking about, even if they are simultaneously talking out of their collectively hemorrhoidal asses.

Their aim is to create a social situation where the American people will PLEAD for the dismantling of ANY PRETENSE of Constitutional government. JESUS H HOSIWATCHA LOOK WHAT THEY JUST DID TO US OUT HERE IN CALIFORNIA!

I sincerely believe another "major event" is coming. And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it happened here in California--especially Alameda County which voted the most heavily against the recall and TERMINATOR. If I'm right, it will be 'spectacular' with plenty of opportunities for the TERMINATOR to look like he is in charge of the catastrophy.

I would not be the least bit surprised if this happened before the next presidential election. I hope to God I'm wrong, but just in case we must do everything in OUR collective power TO BRING AN END TO THIS MADNESS.


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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. I think this part of your post says it all really..
THERE ARE A VERY FEW INDIVIDUALS ON THIS PLANET WHO ARE SELECTIVELY MAKING DECISIONS THAT EFFECT THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE.

Nice and simple.

Answer.. Don't give them money, they'll just screw you with it :)

20 somethings?

Veal. Altho some are waking up, they'll never have the power we did in the 60's with a real media that gave two shits.

me, I'm moving. I'll throw stones at glass houses from a little farther away :)

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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Hell you don't even need to read
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 12:58 AM by slaveplanet
Anymore

These Pompous Fokkers are so blatant it's right out in the open now.
Many 20 somethings do realize it.

I think many on the right wing push the agenda because they feel they'll be somehow included- a literal deal with the devil.

They fail to see the REAL agenda. Massive population control followed by total enslavement of those unlucky enough to survive.

They need to bring the crowd down to controlable levels first.
And guess what ..they want to start here first, because we're the most unruly bunch on the planet.

you can run, but you can't hide this time round
it will be worldwide

Boy will the wingnuts be in for a big suprise when they see their loving heros show their fangs....

the more people that wake up and raise their voice. The more we can back em off ...but it's probaly inevetable at this point....they already got their War. so the pregame festivities(polarization) have already begun....people hate taking on the Good guy so it's in their best interest to make us the bad guy.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
61. Kick.
Kick.
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obietiger Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
62. Good post
Thanks for the link
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
71. a very wise activist...
Edited on Sun Oct-12-03 04:57 PM by grasswire
...now deceased, told me that the two most important books I should read were "Votescam" and a book titled "The Nazis Go Underground" by Curt Riess. I've never found a copy of that book, although I think a few are available from used booksellers if you're lucky enough to find a copy. Published in 1944.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
73. The extreme Republican RW became home politically for Nazis
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. So much there, I wonder how come they never teach that stuff in school?
Edited on Sun Oct-12-03 07:07 PM by nolabels
I took a long time for the article to finally get to Bill Casey, but he, Bush 1 and Kissinger are some pretty main characters that connect up to the present day through different links, wouldn't you say?

Here try this little snip, (about halfway down in red)
http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm
(snip)
.(6) Via Civica claims to be nonpartisan but is closely associated with the Nicaraguan National Opposition Union (UNO), the U.S. backed coalition opposing the Sandinista government.(2) In a recent interview, Henry Quintero said that in addition to Nicaragua, IFES has election projects in Hungary, Namibia, India, USSR, and Paraguay.(28)F. Clifton White worked with CIA director William Casey on the Reagan administration's pro-contra propaganda network.(2) According to a November 1986 memo from Walter Raymond to National Security Adviser John Poindexter, White was to be in charge of the formation of a group modeled after the bipartisan cold war champion, Committee on the Present Danger, but focusing on Central America.(2) White and Richard Scammon of IFES lunched with the Soviet Central Election Commission to the U.S. during their November 1989 visit.(10)"
William J. Hybl, Chairman - Bush appointee and senior adviser to the 56th UNITED NATIONS
(snip)
on edit, title syntax
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. MIAMI STATION again
Edited on Sun Oct-12-03 07:30 PM by bobthedrummer
they always have ongoing Operations there. Reminds me of the flight school the 19 hijackers trained at in Florida.

http://www.madcowprod.com/
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. International Foundation for Election Systems
Richard Soudriette current President of IFES(CIA Nicaragua 1989)must have been havin' lunch with the boys then too.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Thanks, seemslikeadream
eom
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Fight_n_back Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
77. This isn't new
its just astounding that it doesn't matter.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. What do you think should be news then?
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&q=Bush+%2B...
Searched news for Bush + Nazi. Results 1 - 50 of about 431. Search took 0.26 seconds
(snip)
we are not writing this stuff, other people are, were just comparing notes

http://www.thedailystar.net/2003/10/13/d31013020327.htm
Comitted to PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO KNOW

Vol. 4 Num 138 Mon. October 13, 2003

Israeli adventurism against Syria
Kazi Anwarul Masud

On Sunday morning of 5th October the Israeli air force violated the airspace of Lebanon and Syria and launched missile attacks on a civilian site near Damascus. A day earlier a Palestinian suicide bomber blew herself up along with nineteen other people at a Haifa restaurant. Speaking at the UNSC emergency session following the Israeli attack Israeli ambassador claimed that the air attacks were on a training camp of Islamic Jihad, a terrorist organisation, and not on a civilian site and was in retaliation of the Haifa bombing for which Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Israel further claimed that Islamic Jihad operated freely both in the Palestinian territory and in Syria which provided the terrorists with money, training, safe haven, and logistical support. UN Secretary General Kofi Anan strongly deplored the Israeli attacks and warned that it could inflame violence in the troubled region. He called upon all the parties to respect international laws and to exercise restraint. Predictably the Bush administration did not criticise Israel for the attacks. On the other hand the US served notice on Syria for being on the 'wrong side' in the war on terror. Ambassador Negroponte informed the UNSC emergency session of the telephonic conversation between President Bush and Prime Minister Sharon in which President Bush condoled the death of the victims of Haifa bombing and of the two leaders' agreement on the need to continue fighting terrorism but also on the need to avoid heighten tension in the region
(snip)
(snip)
Israel's orgiastic display of force against Syria has the distinct possibility of encouraging increased recruitment of terrorists from among the Arab youth who are disenchanted with the impotence of their rulers to react to Israeli violence committed with impunity. They are convinced that Israel's imitation of the Bush doctrine of preemptive attack would not have been possible without the total backing of the US. This conviction is further strengthened by the certainty of the Congress passing the Syrian Accountability Act next month which would ban a number of exports to Syria, freeze Syrian assets in the US, and reduce diplomatic and business ties. Indeed the labeling of the Congress as 'Our Vichy Congress' by Congressional staff George Sunderland reflecting the Vichyite subservience to Nazi regime may not be off the mark. Sunderland quotes EU Commissioner Chris Patten's writing in the Washington Post of being told by a ranking Democratic Senator that 'all of us here are members of Likud now'. Madeline Albright reflecting on the frustration of the Arabs admitted that for years Arab population have received a distorted message from Washington: that US stands for democracy, freedom and human rights everywhere except in the Middle East and for every one except for the Arabs (Bridges, Bombs and Bluster-Foreign Affairs-2003).
(snip)

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2... /
(snip)
Proposals for loans to Iraq draw fire
Plan could raise mistrust, critics say
By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff, 10/12/2003

WASHINGTON -- As a deficit-wary Senate takes up a series of proposals this week to force Iraq to pay back money used for the nation's reconstruction, a wide array of foreign policy analysts and economists are warning that such a demand would alienate allies as well as Iraqis already suspicious of American plans for the country's oil fields.

The concerns, from both supporters and opponents of the war, are serious enough to merit comparisons with the debts imposed on Germany after World War I that helped fuel the rise of Nazism, some said.

The Senate, under pressure from constituents who resent giving direct aid to postwar Iraq, will consider plans to force Iraq to repay at least some of the $20.3 billion that President Bush is seeking for the country's rebuilding. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, Republican of Texas, is pushing a plan to provide half the aid in the form of loans, while Senator Byron Dorgan, Democrat of North Dakota, wants the international community to provide the entire amount in loans.
(snip)

This last one was a real trick comparing Iraq to Germany's old republic, damn I love corporate media
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. The National Archive CONFIRMATION *is* NEW
Yes, this has been "known" and reported and discussed in certain non-mainstream circles for some time. However, the confirmation via the National Archives is NEW and is what makes this story news worthy.

WHAT COULD BE MORE NEWS WORTHY THAN THE VERY REAL BUT UNBELIEVABLE POSSIBILITY THAT THE WHITE HOUSE IS OCCUPIED BY NAZIS HELL BENT ON THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC?

HELLO! The * is NOT the president of the United States. He is an installed SOCK PUPPET for an elite who are at their core Nazi Fascists. How could this have happened without the use of blackmail against both the Supreme Court of the United States AND the Congress AND whatever mainstream news sources they do not control from the inside?

H E L L O !!! These traitorous, murderers and criminals will do ANYTHING and have the wealth and power to do ANYTHING to advance their agenda. They are telling us flat out that the next event--to be blamed on 'terrorists', to create sufficient havoc to institute martial law in some quarters, to further justify the invasion of our privacy and the ersosion of our liberties-- will make 9/11 look like a Sunday picnic. Cheney and his ilk are talking of "hundreds of thousands" of deaths. Not in Iraq. Not in Afganistan. Right here--with SPECTACULAR full 24/7 media coverage that will TERRORIZE not only every man woman and child in this country, but around the world.

H E L L O !!! Answer this question:

Do those who have the ability to install an unelected president and murder 3,000 American citizens in broad day light AND GET AWAY WITH IT also have the means to plant nuclear or other weapons of mass distruction in cities throughout the United States and in other cities around the world?


If you do not believe that "they" have this capacity then you are not paying attention. IF THEY DO HAVE THIS CAPACITY then it is clear that they have the capacity to BLACKMAIL any civic leader in any city or state or at the federal level--and very likely, many foreign leaders as well.

ARE WE PAYING ATTENTION YET, FOLKS?

HOW MANY MORE OF US ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DIE???

SCOTTY! PLEASE BEAM ME UP !!!

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Fight_n_back Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #87
103. I think I have been misunderstood
I didn't say it SHOULDN"T be discussed I said it isn't.

People in this country aren't all that uncomfprtable with Nazis, per se, just some of the seamier aspects.

We give every indication of a nation that is tired of the responsibility of democracy.

When will a visigoth sit on the throne of the American Empire?
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. Why would the Corporate - Fascists debate what their predecessors did?
The Term "Nazi" would occur to me more of subset of the Corporate - Fascist. Really the egregious nature, documentation, and maybe the numbers are the things that set them out. If you look around and use the definition rather than the words you will find a quite a bit more


http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide4.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide2.htm

A LIST OF ATROCITIES
1450 CE TO WORLD WAR II
(snip)
Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims
1940 to 1945 Poland, mainly German army volunteers Jews, Roma, etc. 11 million

This has been called the Shoah in Hebrew or the Holocaust in English. Some 11 million people were first declared sub-human and then murdered. Some were killed when the towns and cities in which they lived were captured by German troops. Others were rounded up, and transported to extermination camps, mainly in Poland where the gas ovens waited.

Jews: About 6 million were killed, mostly in death camps. Hitler's goal was to completely clear all Europe of Jews.
Poles: About 3 million were killed. This represented about 10% of the population, and one third of the Catholic priests in the country. 7,8
Roma: (These are commonly called by the derogatory term, Gypsies). At first, the Nazis thought that they could be "re-educated." About 1940, the Nazis decided to exterminate them. Approximately 400,000 Roma were killed. Roma survivors refer to this tragedy as "the devouring."
Homosexuals: Estimates of the number executed or worked to death range from 50,000 to half a million. 9.10,11
Jehovah's Witnesses: About 10,000 Witnesses were imprisoned in concentration camps during the Nazi period, mainly because they were conscientious objectors. An estimated 2,500 to 5,000 died. 12
Disabled persons: About 150,000 Germans who were crippled or mentally ill were murdered. They were considered "life not worthy of life."
Others: This included millions of Slavs, Russians, socialists, and various types of dissenters.
(snip)
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
79. RW Cubans comprise much of the assets of MIAMI STATION
as does the DoD. The FBI is full of moles from the company. A legacy of the war between the FBI under Hoover and the CIA. Batista reminds me of *. A fascist chickenhawk neo-conjob. :puke: :argh:
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
84. Another conspiracy theory thread
You don't see that term much anymore, but a year ago or two anybody talking about this stuff was labeled a conspiracy whacko.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. Since November 22, 1963..."conspiracy theorist = whacko"
Denigrating those who question the "official" story is how these crooks have gotten away with murder and treason.

For those new to the subject, an excellent essay by the late Mae Brussell:

The Nazi Connection to the JFK Assassination

Evidence of link between Nazis still in operation after World War II to the still unsolved murder of John F. Kennedy

by Mae Brussell

(from the short-lived Larry Flynt publication The Rebel, Nov. 22, 1983)

EXCERPT...

J. Edgar Hoover and Interpol

FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover "mistrusted and disliked all three Kennedy brothers. President Johnson and Hoover had mutual fear and hatred for the Kennedys," wrote the late William Sullivan, for many years an assistant FBI director. Hoover hated Robert Kennedy, who as Attorney General was his boss, and feared John. In turn the President distrusted Allen Dulles, easing him out as CIA director after the 1961 Bay of Pigs debacle. When JFK moved to lower the oil depletion allowance, he incurred the displeasure of John McCloy, whose clients' profits would be trimmed.

Hoover, Dulles and McCloy did not belong to the Kennedy fan club. When the president was shot, Hoover controlled the field investigation, and Dulles and McCloy helped mold the final verdict of the Warren Commission.

As America stood on the threshold of World War II Hoover continued a friendly relationship with the nazis who dominated Interpol, the Berlin-based international secret police. He had been obsessed with the "Red menace" since 1919 when he became head of the Bureau's General Intelligence Division. Heinrich Himmler, Reinhard Heydrich, Arthur Nebe and other fanatical nazis were active in Interpol. Even after Hitler occupied Czechoslovakia, Hoover ignored all evidence of nazi death squads and atrocities and cooperated with the boys in Berlin. As France fell, Hoover exchanged lists of wanted criminals, enclosing autographed photographs of himself. It was not until three days before Pearl Harbor that he called a haltand then only because he feared his image might be tarnished.

When the war had been imminent Roosevelt charged Hoover with ferreting out nazi spies in the Western Hemisphere. Two escaped his notice. As early as 1933 Gestapo agent Dr. Hermann Friedrick Erban recruited Errol Flynn as an intelligence source. Erban went on to become a naturalized American citizen, but never abandoned his loyalty to Hitler. Flynn went on to make "Santa Fe Trail" in 1940, co-starring with Ronald Reagan, and the two paired up for "Desperate Journey" in 1942.

CONTINUED... (Not to say Reagan knew he was a NAZI enabler, but he was)

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/brussell/Nazi_...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Lee Harvey Oswald's last words by Mae Brussell
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #88
105. The notes of Capt. Will "This Case Is Closed" Fritz.
The Dallas police honcho told the Warren Commission and claimed for years after that no one took notes while interviewing Oswald. Gee. I wonder why he forgot that? Could it be the FIRST THING Oswald told his jailers was to contact FBI Agent James Hosty?

http://www.jfk-info.com/fritztit.htm


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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. "Imagine, if you can, that in the mid 1980s, at the height
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 06:54 PM by Minstrel Boy
of the GOP Revolution, Ronald Reagan, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich, and George Bush Sr, had all been assassinated in the space of five years. Would the Republicans and the media not suspect something more than coincidence and happenstance? Would their party and their causes have been able to sustain the loss? Would Dan Quayle and Bob Dole have been able to pick up the baton? Would history not have been quite different? Certainly, the Democrats were not able to sustain the loss. Nothing comparable filled the gap, nothing even came close. So the constellation fell from the sky and without any pressure from the left, our public debate shifted slowly, inexorably to the right."

This is from the conclusion of The Assassinations, a recent anothology of research on the killings of JFK, MLK, RFK and Malcolm X. It ought to be on the shelf of every Democrat, of every leftist, and of everyone, everywhere who believes Justice is more than the title of John Ashcroft's office. (http://www.theassassinations.com /)

Carnahan, Wellstone. Will there be more "tragic misfortune" in 2004?

Don't kid yourself. Assassination is a fascist tool, and they're killing us. And have been for a long time.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #91
106. No way were the deaths of the Liberal leadership an "accident."
You got it Minstrel Boy!

JFK wanted peace in Vietnam and throughout the world, Civil Rights, and a domestic policy based on using government to create a better life for ALL Americans.

RFK wanted peace in Vietnam and throughout the world, Civil Rights, and a domestic policy based on using government to create a better life for ALL Americans.

MLK wanted peace in Vietnam and throughout the world, Civil Rights, and a domestic policy based on using government to create a better life for ALL Americans.

So the conservatives over the past 22 years have done all they can to have a perpetual war, first against communism then against drugs now against terror; roll back civil rights to the point where the rich have the right to get away with murder, and a domestic policy which has seen the bulk of the nation's treasure go from the middle class to the rich and the bulk of the debt burden fall on the children of the middle class and poor.

It's a good bet none of that would have happened if John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. were alive.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #84
104. Solid reality conspiracies.
n/t
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
85. Can someone please tell this to the Freepers!
Maybe this would put a crack in their armour?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
89. Militarism is a big $ell today
so is The Crusade. Big Daddy Warbucks is alive and well.
Trading with the enemy is a Bush Tradition.
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Chin111402...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/index.htm
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machiventa Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
92. The Nazi were Socialist
Having said that, I think that most of us here wouldn't find it to hard to uncover corporate dealings with the Nazi war machine during that era. It doesn't excuse the current Bush's policy decisions. Sometimes I wish we didn't sound like a bunch of tin-foil hat Micheal Moore hate spewing idiots trying to get our point across. Flaim retardent suit <on>.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Myth: Hitler was a leftist.
Fact: Nearly all of Hitler's beliefs placed him on the far right.

Summary

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.

more...
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm

lefties were the first to raise the alarm :hi:

peace
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machiventa Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #93
111. Marxist???
BS. If you knew the real history behind the German Worker's Party which was the original party Hitler joined via Anton Drexler you wouldn't say this. Hitler wanted to rename GWP to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) to exclude the non-Germans (ie Jews). True he was hostile to certain socialist ideas of equality especially sex and race, but he still used the populist notions of socialism to recruit. This is well documented. The only people who really calls Nazi's right wing anymore are the ardent communist left-wingers and everyone is right of them. Sounds like you are a Marxist??
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. sounds like you are a
nevermind.
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Jon Thompson Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
94. Yes!
This is true, I've said it for some time. But, at the same time, you should realize that Kennedy had just as strong a link to Nazis, and through his father, in the same way. This doesn't make them Nazis. It means their dads traded with the wrong people. I guess Geore H.W. Bush fought in WWII to obfuscate the truth, huh?
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
95. This is straight out of the "Unauthorized Biography: G.H.W. Bush"
This book has been banned here in the US.
You can read it off a Web site that I'm sure alot of DUrs already have.

These guys are nothing but BAD to the BONE type of guys!!!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. THE CABAL is capable of anything.
Even assassinations.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
97. Did Poppy Bush know Lee Harvey Oswald?
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 11:32 PM by 9215
As the Roman playwright Seneca warns us, "Cui prodest scelus, is fecit"-- the one who derives advantage from the crime is the one most likely to have committed it.


About Richard Case Nagell: "The late Bernard Fensterwald, Jr. a prominent Washington, D.C., Attorney and founder of the Assassination Archives Research Center, served for a time as Nagell's attorney. "Despite the fact that he was ignored by both the Warren Commission and the House Assassinations Committee," Fensterwald believed, "Nagell is probably the only vital individual who knew the details of the assassination and is still alive." Jim Garrison, the former New Orleans district attorney whose 1967 investigation was among the first to raise the specter of a conspiracy, said simply: "Richard Nagell is the most important witness there is." (pp.47)

Here is an excerpt from the first few pages largely taken from police records of the incident:

Late on the afternoon of Sept. 20th 1963, in the West Texas city of El Paso, a man parked his yellow and cream-collored Ford Fairlane in an alley between Oregon and El Paso streets. He opened his trunk and took out a .45 Colt automatic pistol, tucking it inside his belt. he was tall and rangy, well dressed in a blue suit, white shirt, and red tie. He walked over to a nearby post office and took five crisp hundred-dollar bills from his pocket. Folding them inside a piece of paper, he slipped the package into an envelope and mailed it to an address in Mexico City.

At the counter, he registered another letter to an official of the Central Intelligence Agency. He carefully placed the receipt in his wallet and momentarily scrutinizing the circular-shaped ceiling, placed his hand on the pistol. Then, fearing a ricochet that might injure one of the customers, he changed his mind.

It was a sweltering ninety-one degrees as the man walked across the street toward an old gray stone building with a facade of roman columns with eagles above the doors. His mind raced; he was being followed, of this he was certain. Inside the State National Bank, it was now half our before closing time. He observed a young police officer standing guard beside a Treasury Department currency display, chatting with a woman. The man approached a teller's window and politely asked for one hundred dollars in American Express traveler's checks.

But as the teller laid the traveler's checks on the counter, the man made no move to pick them up . Instead, he reached inside his suit jacked, drew the pistol, turned, and deliberately aimed two shots into a plaster wall just below the bank's ceiling. Then he returned the revolver to his belt and, as calmly as he had entered, he walked out onto the street.

He stopped at the corner, looking back to see a few bank employees staring at him from the doorway. He headed down the alley, got into his car, and, for a moment, simply sat there. As he finally pulled out halfway into the street, antoher driver was motioning for him to pass when the man saw the young policeman, with the gun in his hand, looking for him in the traffic. He backed his car up onto the sidewalk. When the policeman came over to his window, he said, "I guess you've got me, I surrender." and raised his hands.

Nervously Jim Bundren put on the handcuffs and marched him back to the bank. As he led his prisoner up some stairs toward a set of offices, the man suddenly turned his head and cried out: "Capitalist swine!" The policeman frisked him in the upstairs office, finding a mere twenty-seven cents remaining in his pocket.
Bundren examined the contents of his wallet: a California driver's license, some kind of U.S. military certificate. There was also a mimeographed newsletter. It was addressed to Richard Case Nagell from something called the Fair Play for Cuiba Committee.

Bundren picked up a telephone. Because a firearm had been discharged inside a federally insured building, the FBI would have jurisdiction. Two El Paso special agents arrived at the bank within ten minutes. when they asked what his intentions had been, Richard Case Nagel refused to respond. Then, as he was being led to a waiting FBI car, he turned to Officer Bundren and said: "Why don't yo check my car and get the machine gun out of there?"

On the way to the El Paso Federal Building for further questioning. Richard Case Nagell issued only one statement to the FBI: "I would rather be arrested than committ murder and treason." 1

Many years later, Jim Bundren, retired from the police force and teaching a course in criminal justice at an El Paso college, would look back and remember: "I was sitting next to Nagell at one of his preliminary hearings. I don't remember the exact date, but I know it was before the Kennedy assassination. Nagell looked over at me and said. "You're a pretty good cop, arent' you? You know, if I didn't want you to, you'd never have caught me."

"I said. 'I saw the shots you fired in the bank. With your Army training and everything, I just felt like maybe it was some kind of diversionary tactic.'

"Nagell just smiled and said, 'Well, I'm glad you caught me. I really don't want to be in Dallas'

"I said, 'What do you mean by that?'
"'You'll see soon enough,' he said"......





Did ex-president Bush know Lee Harvey Oswald?


By the early autumn of 1962, Lee and Marina Oswald's relationship was already devolving into constant bickering. Thirteen days before Nagell's arrival in Dallas from Mexico to make some inquiries about him, on Oct. 10 Oswald had suddenly left his job at a Fort Worth metal factory, bid a temporary farewell to his family, and traveled alone the thirty miles to Dallas. Staying for a few days at a YMCA, opened his first of several post office boxes, Box 2915. On October 12 he suddenly found new employment with the Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall (JCS) photo-lithography firm for $1.35/hour. ...

JCS was an interesting place for a 'redefector' from the USSR to find a job. One of the company's contracts was doing classified work for the U.S. Army Map Service. In this context, employees set type for place names on maps of Cuba. Just days after Oswald arrived JCS, pictures taken by an American U2 spy plane would confirm the existence of Soviet missile launching pads.....

....Hundreds of dollars worth of photographic equipment were discovered by the Dallas police in Oswald's apartment ....

Oswald himself was never known to have been fond of taking long cross-country camera hikes in foreign lands. But someone else was. This was a well-connected Russian e'migre' some thirty years Oswald's senior,....Both the wife and daughter would tell the Warren Commission that it was he who had arranged for Oswald's employment at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall. Not the Texas Employment Commission, as official records would have us believe.....

George Sergei de Mohrenschildt is another of those remarkablely enigmatic characters whom we find permeating the assassination's landscape. He was born in Czarist Russia in 1911, his father a "marshal of nobility" who served as director of Nobel oil interests--hence his own title of "baron." He was a world traveler who spoke six languages and boasted membership in both the exclusive Dallas Petroleum Club and the World Affairs Council....

..."He was traveling extensively ..." one of his friends Mrs. Igor Voshinin, would tell the Warren Commission.
The commission took notice that de Mohrenschildt was acquainted with several powerful people in Houston.....Lyndon Johnson: oil millionaire John Mecom...Another friend of de Mohrenschildt was Jean De Menil of Schlumberger Wells Services Company, who in 1961 permitted his New Orleans branch to be used as an ammunition conduit for the CIA.

The baron's affinity for people in high places even extended as far as LBJ and another future American president, George Bush....

De Mohrenschildt's personal telephone book, discovered after his alleged suicide in 1977, contained this entry: "Bush, George. H. W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland." (Footnote: "Bush name in de Mohrenschildt notebook: Mark Lane, Plausible Denial p. 332. Lane also notes odd similarities among Bush's Zapata Offshore oil company, the "Operation Zapata" code name given to the Bay of Pigs invasion, and the names of the invasions ships "Barbara" (Bush's wife's name) and "Houston" (Bush's business abode).

....deMohrenschildt later told his wife Jeanne, he was "playing a double game". (pp.273)

...In the summer of 1962, de Mohrenschildt maintained that an associate of J. Walton Moore provided him Oswald's address in Fort Worth, suggesting he might want to meet him. De Mohrenschildt called Moore, noting that in exchange for his services with Oswald, the State Department might assist him with an oil exploration deal he was trying to make in Haiti. (pp.274)

...As de Mohrenschildt eventually wrote in a manuscript about Oswald (reprinted in entirety by the House Assassinations Committee in 1979), his wife, Jeanne, particularly hit it off with the returning defector....(pp.275)

When I told de Mohrenschildt I was a writer, his response was quick. "And I'll bet you want to talk about Lee Harvy Oswald."..."It is all in the Warren Commission. All this new talk is so much lies and bullshit. Nothing will ever be solved, unless somebody comes up with a confession."

"Whatever you write ," he said abruptly, "Lee Harvey Oswald was smart as hell. They make a moron out of him."..."Lee was the most honest many I knew. He was--what?"--deMohrenschildt raised his hand dramatically--"he was ahead of his time really, a kind of hippie of those days....I'll tell you this he did not shoot the President". ..."You hear the way I speak English. I've been here thirty-five years and still I have a foreign accent. And Lee hardly had a foreign accent in Russian, a much more difficult language than English. (pp.278)

I explained I had heard a rumor about twelve hours of taped interviews that George (de Mohrenschidlt) was suppose to have given a Dutch journalist friend named Willem Oltmans.....Jeanne was adamant that she didn't want them out....they decided to write their journalist friend and tell them not to release them under any circumstances.... .

In 1974 de Mohrenschidlt had written the journalist a letter that said in part: "In case of my removal from the scene--by assassination or otherwise--you will be able to sell the tapes.....According to Oltmans, in 1975 the finished film would mysteriously disappear from the Dutch Broadcasting Corporation's archives..... (279)

A few days after de Mohrenschildt's death, Oltmans told newsmen in Washington that de Mohrenschildt had revealed to him: (1) Cubans "who thought that President Kennedy had betrayed them at the Bay of Pigs" had fired at the same time as Oswald and (2) deMohrenschildt had served as a middleman between Oswald and Dallas's wealthy H.L. Hunt oil family . " Mr. deMohrenschildt indicated to me very strongly that his ties upward were toward H. L. Hunt and dowstairs to Lee Harvey Oswald." (pp281)

"Billionaire Texas oilman H.L. Hunt, said by ex-employees to have purchased first copy of the Zapruder film and ordered a check on security surrounding Oswald in custody..... (pp.410)


...via the Oltman's account, de Mohrenschidlt was murdered by two men. They first offered him safe passage to Mexico, and they also asked him to sign a false document draw on up by the CIA. ...these experts know only too well how to make it look like a suicide." pp.282


After I alerted Nagell to the impending publication of Morrow's book, in mid-May of 1976 he sent a certified letter to then CIA director George Bush. Nagell wrote: "I am now advised by a 'most reliable source' that while Mr. Morrow claims to have received much of his information about me from people in the Cuban exile community, a substantial portion of his account actually is based on an unsupported allegations furnished to him by a CIA official who retired in 1974. (pp.409)

Five hours after the assassination, Ily Mamantov, who had never seen Oswald, received a phone call from Jack Crichton asking him to serve as interpreter for the interrogation of Marina. Crichton was in 1963 the president of Nafco Oil & Gas, Inc., and a former head of Military Intelligence. According to information uncovered by the Garrison investigations, Crichton had been among a small group of Army Intelligence officials who met with H.L. Hunt soon after the assassination.


.....George de Mohrenschildt, in his Warren Commission testimony, would describe Mamantov as the one "excessive rightist" of the Dallas's Russian e'migre' community.
Interestingly Mrs. Igor Voshinin told me in 1992 that Mamantov "knew George Bush very well". Bush was president of Zapata Oil in Houston in 1963. "Mamantov died recently," said Voshinin, "but he told me that he had received a very charming letter from President Bush. I remember one line: 'You and I did it'." (She could not recall the context.) pp680

.....After the Watergate break-in where several ex -CIA men and Cuban exiles were caught in 1972, Richard Nixon expressed worry on the White House tape-recording system that this might open up "the whole Bay of Pigs thing." Nixon's chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman later wrote of his belief that the president was really talking about the Kennedy assassination.

George Bush, a Texas oilman in 1963, is also found on the periphery of the assassination. As noted earlier in this book, his name appeared in George de Mohrenschildt's personal notebook and
bush was a friend of Marina Oswald's translator, Ilya Mamantov. When George Bush became CIA director (1976-78), Nagell is on record as having written to him about Robert Morrow's book "Betrayal"

The White House has denied that the president was the "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" idntified in a Novermber 1963, FBI memorandum as having been briefed by the FBI on the reacton of Miam's Cuban exiles. But ther is no denying the existence of another recently released FBI memo, which begins:

"On Novermber 22, 1963, Mr. George H.W. Bush, 5525 Briar, Houston, Texas, telephonically advised tha he wanted to relate some hearsay that he had heard in recent week, date and source unknown. He advised that on James Parrott had been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston."

An FBI investigation into Bush's charge failed to turn up any connection whatsoever tying James Parrott to the assassination. Parrott was then an active member of Houston's Young Republicans, who had been involved in picketing members of the Kennedy administration. Bush was then serving as campaign manager for future Republican senator John Tower. Since Parrott's group had come out strongly against a then nascent alliance between Texas Republicans and representatives of the petroleum industry, Bush and Parrott were political enemies.....
(pp. 709-10)

Do you remember where you were when Kennedy was shot? George H. Bush doesn't, he has never been able to answer that question.


KGB file on Oswald: http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0824/p11s1-cods.html


Halliburton link to Permindex and "Operation Zapata". http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/coverups/bronfman...

Hale Boggs
He sat on the Warren Commission, which concluded that President Kennedy was slain by a lone assassin. Later, in 1971 and '72, Boggs said that the Warren Report was false and that J. Edgar Hoover's FBI not only helped cover up the JFK murder but blackmailed Congress with massive wire-tapping and spying. He named Warren Commission staff member Arlen Specter as a major cover-up artist. Congressman Boggs' plane disappeared on a flight to Alaska in 1972. The press, the military, and the CIA publicly proclaimed the plane could not be located. Investigators later said that was a lie, that the plane had been found. On the plane were Nick Begich, a very popular Democratic Congressman, and Don Jonz, an aide to Mr. Boggs. All were killed.


http://www.bushnews.com/family.htm
1961 According to the Realist, CIA official Fletcher Prouty delivers three Navy ships to agents in Guatemala to be used in the Bay of Pigs invasion. Prouty claims he delivered the ships to a CIA agent named George Bush. Agent Bush named the ships the Barbara, Houston and Zapata.
Bay of Pigs invasion fails. Right-wingers blame Kennedy for failure to provide air cover. CIA loses 15 men, another 1100 are imprisoned.
George Bush invites Rep. TL. Ashley -- a fellow Skull & Boner -- down to Texas for a party in order to meet "an attractive girl." Bush writes that "she may be accompanied by an Austrian ski instructor but I think we can probably flush him at the local dance hall." Bush notes that he's had to unlist his phone because "Jane Morgan keeps calling me all the time."
Zapata annual report boasts that the company has paid no taxes since it was founded.



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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. cnn "flyboy story"
Is CNN trying to counteract this by running a Paula Zahn special Sunday, Oct. 19, about Poppy Bush's World War II heroism? (... it's called "A Flyboy's Story.")

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #98
100. "Heroism?" He bailed out & left his crew to die.
"Former President George Bush, who bailed out of a crippled Navy Avenger bomber 53 years ago, jumped again in March of this year. His World War II jump is historic. It made Bush the only president to ever bail out of an airplane and the only president whose crew mates were sent careening into the ocean because their pilot had abandoned the aircraft. "

www.usvetdsp.com/story46.htm

{Google "Bush" + "bail out" and you'll get an amazing array of articles. They've been bailing out or having others bail them out for a long time.}


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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Such imperial heights he bailed from
eom
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
99. Kick.
:dem:
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. I'm as disgusted by the Bush family
Edited on Tue Oct-14-03 01:12 PM by gauguin57
as the rest of you, believe me. But I'm not going to "go there" about Poppy's service in the war. He may stand for everything I CAN'T stand, but he DID enlist as a young man, and he DID keep bombing the enemy after his plane was already hit. Now, obviously if he'd said to himself, well, I'm just going to go into the drink with my two crew members, then we wouldn't have George W. on our hands right now. But would we think better of him for not trying to save himself in an impossible situation? Frankly, if I'd been in his situation -- which I wouldn't have been because I probably wouldn't have had the courage to sign up to fly planes and bomb the Japanese and risk death that way -- I probably would have tried to bail out myself, and hope my comrades made it, too. Perhaps there was some way to save the crew members, as his "buddy" said. Perhaps there wasn't. I wasn't there. And I wouldn't have been there if I could have helped it.

I can cast aspersions for a lot of OTHER stuff George H.W. Bush did LATER in life, for sure. But not for risking his ass in war, just as my father did in the European Theater.

But doesn't that make what Prescott Bush did all the more HEINOUS? His son was risking his life in the Pacific Theater, and this a-hole was doing business with the Nazis. Unbelievable. And doesn't it make George W. Bush's going AWOL from the Guard even more HEINOUS, as well, when compared with his father's service?
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #102
113. Good post
Lots of unanswered questions.
I think, but I'm not sure, that the elites don't really know about the true nature of their "inheritance" until they are older. There is a long grooming period where they become dependent on their privilege, then they are called to pay the piper. They are faced with the prospect of being an outcast, poverty, etc. or maintaining the family status quo. By the time they are faced with the decision they are so dependent on the benefits of their lifestyle, drug habit, or whatever that many opt to continue in the family tradition--tow the line.

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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #113
117. I would not be so sure about the getting "older" part
My guess is many of these folks (that inherited it) only shutter them selves away when they see controversy or send out others to take care of it. They have been set up by minions whose continued employment depends on fending off all affronts or any marginalization of the status quo.

Many of the others get there trough cut throat tactics. There are very few innovators that get to make big and keep it together for very long in the US. They get killed, jailed, bankrupted or discredited and the things they invented get stolen by the Corporations and others like Bill Gates.

I don't think it will pan out for them in the long run. In fact I think many of the new innovators are the ones that are figuring out how to help make a level playing field for all of us. Maybe some of it will help enable us to short circuit them others who operate in their degenerate and uncivilized ways.

Many eyes are on these people and the more we get on them the better off we will all be.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
108. Start by Controlling the Discourse
Memes evolve.

If the Nazi experiment was edifying and enriching to those who currently have designs on world empire, that is not the same thing as "being a Nazi".

IMO if an awareness of the dangers of fascism in our current polity is to be brought to the mainstream, it's important the discourse be introduced in a careful manner.

Coming at this thing in a manner that makes it sound like a 007 plot won't be helpful. Credibility will not be earned by sweeping generalities and hysterical claims of diabolical plans and massive die-outs a la Dave Icke and his unsophisticated psychism.

We must understand our audience and develop persuasive arguments based of verifiable facts, and then the case must be built and presented in such a way that the mainstream starts asking the hard questions.

We need to prompt the questioning -- after that, the truth will take care of itself.

That's the desired outcome isn't it?

Just a thought.


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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
109. kick
:kick:
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
110. kick
:kick:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
114. Has anyone ever wondered who inspired Hitler?
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 12:07 PM by seemslikeadream
Before discovering the book WAR AGAINST THE WEAK by Edwin Black, I never really thought much about it. But now I realize fascism didn't come from Germany it started right here in America. Well the idea of eugenics may have gotten its start in England it really took off in the US in the early 1900's way before Hitler's run at it. From ideas about gas chambers to legislation to forced surgical sterilizations in 27 states of 60,000 people, no wonder we have fasicm here now it never left only lived underground for all these years.
The US Department of Agriculture was in charge
Carnige and Rockefeller foundations funded ethic cleasing.
Oliver Wendell Holmes opened the floodgates with his decision in the State of Virginia vs. Carrie Buck.

The Elite were backing this up. Harvard, Yale, Princeton were pushing Eugenics.

State hospitals like in Lincoln Illinois feeding patients milk from cows that had TB. Doctors leaving babies to die that weren't perfect, one doctor getting the nick name Black Death, hero of the Eugenic Movement. US Optimoligist were actually looking for people with a vision problem so they could round up the entire family and put them in concentration camps to be sterilized.

An American named Bershure(sp)sent Mengla into concentration camps to finish the programs started here with money from Rockefeller. Mengela would send reports 2-3 times a week back to his boss Bershure. After the holocaust Bershure was welcomed back into the fold by his fellow of scienists of California.

Hitler wrote fan mail to Bershure "your book is my Bible"

After the holocaust at Nuremberg Eugenics was deemed an act of genocide, crime against humanity, Americans went underground and the Germans on trail qouted the words of Oliver Wendell Holmes in their own defence they entered the California statutes at all times, the state were 1/2 to 1/3 of all sterilization took place and they were found guilty and then the Americans changed the name of American Eugenics to Human Genetics same guys, same buildings, same philanthropic funds, same labs. It has evolved to what we have today.

The video of Edwin Black speaking of his book is on C-SPAN booktv. It's worth watching.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. Charles Murray {The Bell Curve} is a eugenicist and great pal of
Tommy the man who sold the world Thompson and his bio-terrorism obsessed HHS. What about the anthrax attacks Tommy?
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2001/printer_1062....
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. Though I don't think there is an exact cause for anything, one might......
Postulate about the different circumstances. I had watched a television show the other day (to see how much propaganda would be spewed about it). It was about Hitler and Stalin and some of their childhoods encounters. According to the story AH was beaten badly many times by his father. At one time he was beat so bad that he was in a coma for a couple weeks.

From what I have noticed about them type of people that suffered such abuse as they go through their lives is that it makes them numb to other's suffering, or even worse they like to make others suffer as much or even more. Not in visceral or short term way but in a long and planed or projected way that many times they are not even aware of themselves. In other words they believe it's an okay or needed thing because happened to them.

In another part of the story they went on how about AH took to fighting and killing in WWI like a fish to water. These results would seem consistent or normal for an abused person trying to make sense of the world that surrounded him that was full of unexplained violence.

Some of the rest of the story went into how AH and Stalin went to very elaborate means to try and hide their past which might explain some of the secretiveness along with mistrust of most others. The show was quite informative, but I take it with a grain of salt because one must realize riff-raff and lawless abandon often is a result of the circumstances that surround it. It happens in context
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Kick.
:dem:
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Liberator_Rev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #114
122. Sadly he was ALSO inspired by
his Christian roots in both the Catholic and Lutheran traditions, both of which were virulently anti-semitic, see
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/RCscandal ,
and he also got some inspiration for the idea of killing off lots of people from the "American Holocaust" of native Americans. See http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/AmericanHolocaust .
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Liberator_Rev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
121. Great to get help promoting this story.
We've been trying to publicize it for about a year at our
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/BushFamily site.
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