Democrats Bash Bush Social Security Plan (AP) (WH violated the law?)

[cthrumatrix]

Democrats Bash Bush Social Security Plan

1 hour, 19 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By LAURA MECKLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Senate Democrats lashed out Friday against President Bush (news - web sites)'s plan to add personal accounts to Social Security (news - web sites) and accused his administration of improperly using the Social Security Administration (news - web sites) to promote the plan.

A pair of Social Security employees told the Democratic Policy Committee that they objected to internal agency documents that directs employees to talk about the system's problems and the need for reform.


"That is a political message and it's not my job as an agency employee to project a political message," said Debbie Fredericksen, who works in the Minneapolis field office and is a union representative.

snip

Specifically:


_The agency's communications plan directs workers to spread this message: "In order for Social Security to be there for future generations, necessary reforms must take place."


_Talking points distributed internally reflect Bush's political messages about Social Security and the need for personal accounts. It includes Bush's principles for reform, including that "modernization must include individually controlled, voluntary personal retirement accounts to augment Social Security."


_Mailings to Americans detailing the benefits they can expect to receive also warn that "the Social Security system is facing serious financial problems, and action is needed soon to make sure that the system is sound."

snip

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20050128/ap_on_go_pr_wh/social_security_12

This testimony was covered live on CSPAN. Two agents testified how the SSA was pressured into "selling a crisis and privitization solution"...with OUR TAX dollars.

They said this is ion violation of section 503 during the hearing.

We may have something that can be "pinned on the WH"...this is a clear violation.

[cthrumatrix]

1. it should also be noted - the WH and Repugs refused invitation to attend

[paineinthearse]

6. It should be noted that the dems did this because

the repug-controlled oversight committees have not called hearings.

[cthrumatrix]

8. that has zero to do with expressing opinions - since they have been

sharing them non-stop on soc security.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberal N proud]

2. Will the MSM cover this?

Most likely NOT!

[cthrumatrix]

4. I did watch the testimony -- here's the DU thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3019822

I hope it's replayed soon... I think Lautenberg says how "brave these people must be to come out and tell the truth"

[displacedtexan]

3. When they put those gems in the US Mail, wasn't that Mail Fraud?

Mailings to Americans detailing the benefits they can expect to receive also warn that "the Social Security system is facing serious financial problems, and action is needed soon to make sure that the system is sound."

Hm.

[cthrumatrix]

5. violation of section 503 - propaganda (where's a lawyer?)

[Just Me]

15. In my previous life, practiced law.

The anti-lobbying and appropriations violations are soft-balls with little punch.

Lautenberg's suggestion of fraud and an investigation by the justice department has much more gravity because such behavior by a leadership is so appalling.

NO (I repeat) NO leadership should EVER engage in a pattern of deception which effectively demonstrates an aim to defraud the American people. Such behavior is an egregious abuse of office/power, a breach of the oath of office, and falls squarely within the meaning of "high crimes and misdemeanors" because it is so repugnant to an average person.

[cthrumatrix]

17. is this impeachable?

[Just Me]

22. Oh, for sure, a valid argument could be made it's impeachable!

A fellow by the name of Charles L. Black, Jr. (Yale law professor) published a treatise in 1974. This piece of work was re-published during the Clinton impeachment proceedings (which were based upon something far less egregious than the actions of this corrupt regime) and is called "Impeachment: A Handbook".

This well-written, highly respected treatis makes it quite clear to me that, a pattern of deception funded with taxpayer monies and intended to manipulate the public for personal/political interest is repulsive enough to fall within the meaning of "high crimes and misdemeanors".

[Megahurtz]

23. Someone has to contact the Postal Inspectors

It may be worth a try.

[cthrumatrix]

7. here is section 503 that they could be in violation of:

(2) Anti-Lobbying (Section 503)

"(a) No part of any appropriation contained in this Act shall be used, other than for normal and recognized executive-legislative relationships, for publicity or propaganda purposes, for the preparation, distribution, or use of any kit, pamphlet, booklet, publication, radio, television, or video presentation designed to support or defeat legislation pending before the Congress or any State legislature, except in presentation to the Congress or any State legislature itself. (b) No part of any appropriation contained in this Act shall be used to pay the salary or expenses of any grant or contract recipient, or agent acting for such recipient, related to any activity designed to influence legislation or appropriations pending before the Congress or any State legislature. "

http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-05-023.html

[paineinthearse]

10. Special prosecutor

Why aren't the dems calling for the appointment of a special prosecutor?

[cthrumatrix]

12. the senators actually said this during the hearing (about a violation)

this should be "huge news"

maybe they need to caucus and see how to proceed with such an obvious violation of the law.

The testimony of the witness's said this was going on for 3 Years. They should message flowcharts and tremendous detail.

[driver8]

18. I have a feeling they know it would be pointless...

They know that nothing will happen to these crooks anyway...they always seem to "work" things to go their way. I cannot believe that the dems will let them get away with this without at least drawing attention to it in the MSM.

These m'fers have got to be stopped somehow. Why are they so bent on destroying SS anyway??

[cthrumatrix]

20. America with it's safety net is a strong country. One World Govt

would require a much weaker US (in every way) in order for us to

"throw up our hands"... the next several years is going to be rough

The combination of reduced soc sec, higher taxes, higher personal debt, jobs lost overseas, falling stock market, spiraling healthcare costs, education out of reach for many would bring us down to 3rd world country.

The cycnic in me says this was planned and this is why an idiot like bush was "selected"

[justiceischeap]

34. The ultimate division of the classes

Why are they so bent on destroying SS anyway??

To me it seems they are trying to create something of a caste system. As it stands now, the divide between the haves and the have-nots is growing greatly. When the majority of the citizenry is more concerned about where their next meal is coming from there is no time to concern yourself with politics. It's, IMO, a tool to divide the rich and poor to make us more controllable. A visual if you will:

Have you ever seen animals lined up for slaughter? They look confused and frightened. They see their little animal friends having horrible things done to them. Now imagine that look on the faces of millions of Americans. Who will be their saviour? G-d? Nope, the US government when it's handing out food in bread lines just like in Communist Russia.

But hey, I could just be paranoid...

[sunnystarr]

19. Didn't the GAO rep cite 2 laws?

One was the anti-lobbying and the other the anti-propaganda. In light of Lautenberg's bill it seems that neither carry much punch. His bill would make the agency head personally liable among other things. Now let's see which Repugs will vote for it.

[Just Me]

9. I view the neoCONimperialists' fraud against the American people,...

,...as far more egregious than merely a section 503 violation.

It is becoming increasingly clear that this administration has engaged in intentional misinformation/deception campaigns (about the war, medicare, terrorism, taxes, economy, social security, environmental legislation, etc.) to trick the American people into doing that which they would not otherwise do given all the facts.

That pattern of conduct constitutes a fraud, a crime against the people and this country, and falls within the realm of "high crimes and misdemeanors" in addition to a breach of their oath of office.

These neoCONimperialists MUST GO!!!

[Neecy]

11. just a quick aside...

Whenever, during the course of this administration, you use the sentence "WH violated the law", never end it with a question mark. These days, it's a clear statement of fact on any number of items.

[cthrumatrix]

13. point well taken

[Straight Shooter]

14. Notice the terminology, "personal accounts" vs. "private accounts"

WaPo is bowing before the emperor and his wishes to rewrite the public argument and define it in his terms.

AFAIC, it's neither private nor personal. It should be described as a controlled account.

[tsuki]

27. It should be referred to as a speculative account. Maybe it'll be there

when you retire, maybe it won't.

[Up2Late]

16. God, How they DO SUCK!!!!! Must see Daily Show Replay @7pm tonight

Look for it in the Mail soon.

Pinning this on * could be tough though.

Must see Daily Show Replay at 7:00pm EST tonight (Comedy Central)

They have some AWESOME, * caught in "Red-handed Lies," edited version of * first of the year "news conference":freak: (Steno Pool moments).

It's Great, ya just gotta see it!:bounce:

[buzzard]

30. Do you know what time the daily show is on in florida? n/t

[Up2Late]

31. It depends on what part of Florida

Most of Florida, it's 7:00pm EST, but if you're South of Alabama (FL Pan Handle) it's 6:00pm CST

[buzzard]

32. Venice Florida is where I was wondering about, my parents are there and

my Dad said it isn't on at 11:00pm which is when we usually watch it at home.

[Up2Late]

35. It would be 7:00pm then

Call now, Eh?

How's Canada? Cold?

Please tell all your Friends in Canada, that not ALL Americans are Stupid Bush Supporters, for me.

Thanks:hug:

[buzzard]

60. Thanks for the info and we know not all Americans are Bush supporters.

Many of us really feel for you with your current administration and their seeming plans for endless war.

[Demeter]

21. What's One Little Broken Law

to a bunch of international war and human rights criminals and traitors?

[cthrumatrix]

24. this could be the proverbial "straw"

[TahitiNut]

25. M$M Whoring Headline: "Bash Bush"

No ... they criticized a Bush Social Security (demolition) plan, guys.

[Just Me]

26. Yup. Should read: "Bush Propaganda Being Bashed"!!!

Of course, feeding the people lots of sugar and honey makes the money GROW!!!

Seriously, ethics in journalism has been murdered by "capitalism".

And, it appears that "capitalism" is imposing a sure death sentence upon "democracy".

Amazing how "corporatism" was re-named "capitalism" and how we are just falling, falling, falling into yet another black-hole of fascism.

[TahitiNut]

29. "capitalism" was ORIGINALLY the stance that ...

... individuals should be (easily) able to own the means of their own production. In the days of monarchies, the means of all production belonged to the 'aristocracy' and workers were forced to 'share' the value of their labor with the baron/lord/duke/prince/king/queen/emperor. All lands were owned by the Monarch ("divine rights") and 'granted' to the titled "nobility" - even lands not yet even explored.

Well, we have a 'new aristocracy': the entitled corporatists. Noble they're not.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

33. RATE THE STORY! Only 2.9? This is important.

[rodeodance]

36. the headline is terrible!! says business as usual--dems bashing bush

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

37. IMO, the content speaks more loudly than the headline...

But that's just me.

:toast:

[bluedog]

38. Political Activity (Hatch Act)

Political Activity (Hatch Act)

The following is a discussion of restrictions on political activity by federal government employees, and by employees of certain state and local government agencies, under the Hatch Act. You will find information on:

Hatch Act for Federal Employees

* Permitted/Prohibited Activities for Employees Who May Participate in Partisan Political Activity
* Agencies/Employees Who Are Prohibited From Engaging in Partisan Political Activity
* Permitted/Prohibited Activities for Employees Who May Not Participate in Partisan Political Activity
* Hatch Act Regulations
* Penalties for Violating the Hatch Act
* Advisories for Federal Employees
* Frequently Asked Questions and Answers for Employees Who May Engage in Partisan Political Activity


http://www.osc.gov/hatchact.htm

[NNN0LHI]

39. Social Security Employees' Union Blows Whistle on Agency Propaganda Efforts

http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_17540.shtml

Presents Evidence Bush Administration Used Trust Fund Dollars to Promote Social Security Private Investment Accounts

Today, officers of the National Social Security Council, which represents workers of the Social Security Administration (SSA), testified before the Democratic Senate Policy Committee regarding reports in the media that employees have been instructed to hype negative projections for Social Security and to promote privatizing Social Security.

Union testimony exposed ways in which SSA employees were instructed to promote the idea that Social Security is in a crisis and that private investment accounts are the solution to this financial situation. The testimony suggests that SSA may have violated federal law prohibiting agencies from using funds for propaganda purposes unless those funds are specifically designated for such use by act of Congress. Additionally, the testimony refuted recent White House assertions and a statement that SSA employees are now required to read, on behalf of Social Security Commissioner Jo Anne B. Barnhart, in the event that they are questioned about the recent media reports.

"Previously, our employees had shared information with the public about Social Security's financial condition, but had never been encouraged to support any particular 'reform' proposal. In fact, they were always expected to remain neutral on political and legislative matters," testified Steve Kofahl, regional vice president of the Council and president of AFGE Local 3937.

"Over the years, through Republican Administrations and Democratic Administrations, there was one constant: the work of the Social Security Administration should not be politicized," testified Debbie Fredericksen, Council executive vice president, now, "frontline Agency employees are being instructed to provide the American public with information that is designed to promote the idea that Social Security is in crisis and that Social Security privatization is the answer."

more

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. Impeachment anyone?

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

[Langis]

41. We won't be anywhere close to that until '06

And only if we can win back the house and senate.

[renaissanceguy]

50. Not if Barbara Boxer and Ted Kennedy speak out NOW.

It takes one voice to get the ball rolling. Dems need to get a backbone, and moderate Repugs need to have a conscience.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/472476

[Just Me]

57. You underestimate the "will" against tyranny. You do.

The pattern of deceit/fraud by this administration is GROSS.

NO HUMAN BEING SWALLOWS BETRAYAL WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!!!

This proof of a pattern of deceit WILL bring the neoCONimperialists DOWN!!!

They deserve it,...underestimating the power of both our people and democracy,...and attempting to manipulate without shame to their ideological GAME.

What those assholes didn't, don't, apparently will never GET is that,...this world, our human race, is NOT A GAME FOR "THEM" TO WIN!!!! Either they advance the whole race or they destroy for themselves.

They just can't pull their heads out of their power-mongering asses!

Maybe, tomorrow,...they will join the rest of us,...maybe.

[uppityperson]

43. It's coming, need more bad stuff first.

be patient grasshopper

[Cobalt Violet]

47. We must be up to reason # 2,490,876,988,373,989,648,769,348 to impeach.

[Megahurtz]

42. Right On!!

Keep going!!!:bounce:

[Smirking_Chimp]

44. Whistleblowers-sweet music to my ears!

Love it! Keep 'em coming! The more whistling, the better. Great news!

[rodeodance]

48. anyone hear any reporting of this on the broadcast news?

[truthpusher]

45. I think this story was already posted....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1192211

[Robbien]

49. The other story is the GOP viewpoint of this only being a Dems "bashing"

Bush story. This article says out right that Social Security Trust monies were used by the Bush propaganda machine to push propaganda.

Now we have four times that Bush used our money to push bad policies on the public by dressing them up in a glittery PR package.

[renaissanceguy]

51. Like Nixon, the scandals are finally surfacing.

What will we call ALL these scandals, in one word? Bushgate?

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/472476

[deacon2]

46. New bumper sticker

A "thought bubble" above the Emperor's smirking visage:

Who do I have to blow to get impeached around here?

[tlcandie]

55. How about just ....

Bush Blows ?! Works for me!!

[Robbien]

52. BushCo tries to take away the Federal Union from the workers and also

uses the very same workers to push closing down their workplace.

It sure did take these guys long enough to start speaking out.

[Virginian]

53. Isn't that a violation of the Hatch act?

The person instructing them to do that, shouldn't they be brought up on federal charges for messing with a federal employee?

Oh, I forgot. They are Republicans so it must be the fault of the Clinton's.

[gratuitous]

56. IOKIYAR

It's okay if you're a Republican.

Golly, and just a couple of days after I got an email message quoting Social Security Commissioner Joann Barnhart that they agency was not, would not and would never spend its money to promote one political viewpoint or another!

What will I tell my children? A government agency lied to me! And during Moral George's tenure as commander in thief.

[Virginian]

63. IANAR

I am not a Republican.
I suppose I should have indicated Sarcasm on my previous post.

The only thing I have in common with Republicans is that I have never been in jail.
In my case I haven't done anything to get incarcerated; in their cases, they always get off. It is important for them not to get locked up. Incarceration could turn them into liberals. That must be why it is so important in Florida to make sure felons don't vote.

I did vote for one once for Governor, then he eliminated my job. I never voted for one again.
Every time there is a Bush in the White House I get laid off.
It's a Republican thing, I guess.

[gratuitous]

65. Whoops sorry; not what I meant

I probably should have indicated that the response is "It's okay if you're a Republican." That is, I wasn't calling you a Republican -- that's too mean even for me!

See, when Democrats give even the appearance of a conflict of interest, the yammering classes are all up in arms, demanding apologies and resignations. But see Dick Cheney and Halliburton up to his pacemaker in a real conflict of interest, and suddenly it's just all so, oooh, complicated and business-y and no one can really unravel it all, and just because Dick received $175,000 from Halliburton in 2003, it's not really a conflict of interest because . . . because, uh . . . Hey look! Iraq's having an election!

[indepat]

54. Only the tip of one of many monstrous icebergs

[Just Me]

58. kick

neoCONimperialists' ass.

[retnavyliberal]

59. Someone explain to me the logic

of telling people to promote the outsourcing of their jobs?

[Up2Late]

61. I'm having trouble following this too

So, What does your Ribbon represent, Korea? :hi:

[Carolab]

62. It's on again right now on C-Span (12:45 p.m. ET) n/t

[cthrumatrix]

64. call your sen/congressman .... if they violated the law .... let's take

action