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Reply #150: I'd rather fly out of Tel Aviv than Atlanta right now. [View All]

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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-11 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
150. I'd rather fly out of Tel Aviv than Atlanta right now.
Edited on Fri Apr-29-11 03:17 AM by crickets
A Story We Somehow Knew Was Coming (TSA Dept) - Full Body Scanners are a Waste of Money, Isreali Expert Says
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2010/04/a... /
"I don't know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747," Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada.

"That's why we haven't put them in our airport," Sela said, referring to Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport, which has some of the toughest security in the world.
Hijackings and plane bombs are not new. Governments have dealt with the problem pretty well before now by using intelligence and keeping an eye on the people they thought might actually be a risk. That doesn't mean they've always been successful, obviously, but it is a hallmark of a truly free society that you do your damnedest to safeguard your people without treating the citizenry exactly the way you would the criminals you wish to catch.

An attack like Sept 11th happened partly because the intelligence apparatus hamstrung itself with interdepartmental rivalries and largely because the people at the top ignored the warnings that got through, warnings which might have been enough to prevent the attacks if they'd bothered to listen. Without having to remove shoes or virtually drop trou, there are at least two things we could do as a country to be safe: beef up intelligence abilities to augment the pre-Sept 11 security that worked just fine aside from a rather lax rule on long sharp things, and most important, stop being international assholes.

Broad Coalition Urges Homeland Security to Suspend Airport Body Scanner Program
http://bordc.org/press/pr-2010-04-21.php
The groups contend that body scanner systems are "uniquely intrusive" and subject all travelers to an unreasonable search in violation of the Fourth Amendment. They also say that the Department of Homeland Security failed to comply with the Privacy Act when it did not inform the public about this new system that would collect personal information. And they say that the Chief Privacy Officer violated the law when she approved the program.

Chip Pitts, President of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee (BORDC), said The program should be suspended. The body scanners don't work for the purposes claimed and actually harm true security by diverting scarce resources and offending allies and populations critical for genuine intelligence."

Shahid Buttar, executive director of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, said, The government's use of invasive imaging technologies strays beyond both the limits of what is constitutionally permissible and the agencies' representation of their own capacity.
As for the gropedown, it's far worse than any random "papers, please!" nightmare that might be used to stifle free travel. All I can say is, sabrina 1 is my heroine for expressing every ounce of my rage and frustration, both toward the people who've perpetrated this travesty as well as those willing to put up with it, far more eloquently than I ever could.
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  -Former Miss USA winner: TSA agent touched my vagina kpete  Apr-28-11 05:18 PM   #0 
  - Her vagina? Really?  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 05:21 PM   #1 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-28-11 05:37 PM   #6 
  - +1 n/t  demmiblue   Apr-28-11 05:40 PM   #10 
  - Very creepy ~  sabrina 1   Apr-28-11 05:47 PM   #12 
  - What nonsense...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 05:48 PM   #14 
  - Some of us aren't so willing to give up our liberty for a false sense of security  Ghost in the Machine   Apr-28-11 05:58 PM   #21 
     - Ben Franklin I believe  MiniMe   Apr-28-11 06:10 PM   #30 
     - Thank you, sad that you have to even say that.  sabrina 1   Apr-28-11 06:20 PM   #39 
     - No one had to remind me of that quote or that fact...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:28 PM   #45 
     - Where did I ever say this action was OK?  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:22 PM   #41 
     - Ummm...  Ghost in the Machine   Apr-28-11 08:35 PM   #113 
     - I don't see how being patted down is giving up liberty  adigal   Apr-28-11 07:02 PM   #61 
        - People can hide lots of things in their body cavities.  LisaL   Apr-28-11 07:22 PM   #72 
        - A snook? In her Snizz?  Fuzz   Apr-28-11 08:15 PM   #96 
        - Trading flying for being pat down is giving up liberty.  jp11   Apr-28-11 07:31 PM   #78 
        - There is no inalienable right to get on a plane  adigal   Apr-28-11 07:38 PM   #79 
        - Never said it was.  jp11   Apr-28-11 08:08 PM   #92 
        - Wrong, and I am getting tired of correcting this rightwing  sabrina 1   Apr-28-11 11:59 PM   #125 
           - +1000 I'm sick of people who are passive as we lose our rights. n/t  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 01:29 AM   #135 
        - You don't have to pat down, or be scanned to fly....  boppers   Apr-28-11 08:21 PM   #101 
        - Wow, the brainwashing is almost complete!  Ghost in the Machine   Apr-28-11 09:06 PM   #117 
        - yes, so long as you stay in your house you are "free". if you actually want to do something, that's  Hannah Bell   Apr-30-11 03:31 AM   #179 
  - If it is 'molestation' when done to women and children it is also 'molestation' when done to men or  jp11   Apr-28-11 08:03 PM   #90 
  - Durrrrrr......  Maru Kitteh   Apr-29-11 12:02 AM   #126 
  - When one uses the phrase women and children it by design excludes those that don't fall in those  jp11   Apr-29-11 01:44 PM   #174 
  - Yes, it is, I completely agree. And it has been done to men.  sabrina 1   Apr-29-11 01:31 AM   #136 
  - A-freakin'-men!!! nt  U4ikLefty   Apr-29-11 01:13 AM   #129 
  - 'Go, Team' hypocrisy is despicable  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 01:24 AM   #132 
     - Yes, these searches began last year, and people should go to  sabrina 1   Apr-29-11 01:41 AM   #141 
        - Ah, But that "miniscule threat" is from brown people that don't speak english  Yavin4   Apr-29-11 12:59 PM   #170 
  - I was referring to a pat down in general...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 05:47 PM   #13 
  - Read your words I quoted. Explicit and gross.  PufPuf23   Apr-28-11 06:03 PM   #25 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-28-11 06:15 PM   #35 
     - OFFS... please read what I wrote...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:17 PM   #38 
     - JuniperLea... I can't believe what you wrote either...  hlthe2b   Apr-28-11 06:21 PM   #40 
        - How does this mean that I approve of these actions?  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:24 PM   #43 
           - You explicitly call out this woman on her complaints...  hlthe2b   Apr-28-11 06:28 PM   #46 
              - Bullshit  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:36 PM   #49 
              - So because this woman misspoke with repsect to the term for her  hlthe2b   Apr-28-11 06:42 PM   #50 
                 - My post is very clear if you don't try to put words into it that are not there.  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:48 PM   #52 
                    - I doubt very seriously that  hlthe2b   Apr-28-11 07:54 PM   #84 
                    - ...  hlthe2b   Apr-28-11 07:58 PM   #86 
                    - What an insult to 'poor, destitute women'  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 01:45 AM   #143 
              - Med prof pal says such TSA searches could be spreading Herpes simplex  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 01:36 AM   #138 
     - agree +1000  guardian   Apr-29-11 10:55 AM   #158 
  - "The TSA is an entirely unnecessary agency at airports."  TheWraith   Apr-28-11 06:06 PM   #26 
  - There was airline security and going through screening and  PufPuf23   Apr-28-11 06:16 PM   #37 
  - So, airport screening on 9/11 was good enough?  TheWraith   Apr-28-11 06:30 PM   #48 
     - Back then boxcutters were allowed onto the plane.  LisaL   Apr-28-11 07:21 PM   #71 
     - No they were not.  TheWraith   Apr-28-11 07:29 PM   #76 
        - According to wikipedia, knifes with blades up to 4 inches were  LisaL   Apr-28-11 07:38 PM   #80 
        - FAA regs permitted them. But the FAA didn't run airport security.  TheWraith   Apr-29-11 01:40 AM   #140 
        - I travelled with a little one for years that was part of a little tool kit  Sen. Walter Sobchak   Apr-28-11 08:27 PM   #103 
           - Then yours was a case of the airlines not enforcing their own rules.  TheWraith   Apr-29-11 01:42 AM   #142 
           - So every major airport in the US, Western Europe and Asia were all wrong?  Sen. Walter Sobchak   Apr-29-11 03:24 AM   #151 
           - They used to let my on board witha 4 inch switcblade.  aikoaiko   Apr-29-11 09:46 AM   #152 
     - The 9/11 hijackers didn't need boxcutters.  Eric J in MN   Apr-29-11 09:53 AM   #154 
  - I'm not happy with the level of scrutiny either...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:29 PM   #47 
     - I apologize if I hurt your feelings but was blown away by your post.  PufPuf23   Apr-28-11 06:54 PM   #55 
     - You seriously fucked my mind... and I don't know how to get over this...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:59 PM   #60 
        - Your hurt and insult at WORDS on DU are nothing compared to the hurt and insult of this woman  woo me with science   Apr-28-11 07:38 PM   #81 
           - I am hurt for that woman and for the children and the men  sabrina 1   Apr-29-11 01:10 AM   #128 
           - Woo Me with Science, great post ^^ I've another issue  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 02:25 AM   #147 
           - Damn right and thank you.  pecwae   Apr-29-11 03:44 PM   #175 
     - Then oppose it rather than wiping and dangling.  TheKentuckian   Apr-28-11 06:55 PM   #57 
        - OFFS... please read what I wrote...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 07:06 PM   #63 
           - I think you need to re-read your first reply to this thread.  chrisa   Apr-28-11 08:21 PM   #102 
  - Homeland Security is the unnecessary agency, not the TSA n/t  leftstreet   Apr-28-11 06:09 PM   #29 
  - +1,0000000000000 I think I am in shock just reading that...  hlthe2b   Apr-28-11 06:12 PM   #33 
  - Oh yeah, she deserved it!  chrisa   Apr-28-11 08:15 PM   #95 
  - And YOU are being stupidly insensitive.  Matariki   Apr-28-11 08:27 PM   #106 
  - Well since she is pretty and successful she deserves it right?  Cid_B   Apr-28-11 08:30 PM   #109 
  - Yuk. Maybe they can make a separate line for those who expect crotch buggery,  Maru Kitteh   Apr-28-11 11:42 PM   #122 
  - LOL - I would expect that you would freely submit to whatever  TBF   Apr-29-11 10:57 AM   #159 
  - The pat down means must that, you get patted, felt, all over, including your "private area"  uppityperson   Apr-29-11 11:32 AM   #162 
  - Sexually being assaulted while traveling.... Being beaten at the I Hop.  midnight   Apr-28-11 05:24 PM   #2 
  - Perhaps she means vulva?  Uncle Joe   Apr-28-11 05:25 PM   #3 
  - Yes, there have been other threads here at DU about this mistake.  spooky3   Apr-28-11 05:46 PM   #11 
  - When one feels they have been violated - it is a distinction without a difference.  Maru Kitteh   Apr-29-11 12:06 AM   #127 
  - if you read my first sentence, I think it's clear that  spooky3   Apr-29-11 01:18 AM   #130 
  - I've given up.  Pacifist Patriot   Apr-29-11 04:49 PM   #177 
  - That's what I was inferring with my post...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 05:52 PM   #18 
  - I think you meant "imply"  REP   Apr-28-11 06:22 PM   #42 
     - You are right...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:42 PM   #51 
     - But which is it?  Doremus   Apr-28-11 07:06 PM   #64 
     - It's a pick your poison situation...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 07:10 PM   #66 
        - How? By flying out of a terminal where the scanners aren't installed yet.  Gormy Cuss   Apr-28-11 08:05 PM   #91 
        - Get on a private plane instead.  boppers   Apr-28-11 08:27 PM   #105 
        - But I think you are, despite the denials.  Doremus   Apr-28-11 09:36 PM   #118 
     - Just funny - joking about use of an inexact word, then making a worse error  REP   Apr-28-11 07:57 PM   #85 
        - Most women don't use the terms 'vulva' or 'labia'; SO WHAT? n/t  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 01:39 AM   #139 
           - I wasn't the one complaining about the use of 'vagina;' I was replying to someone who was  REP   Apr-29-11 02:01 AM   #144 
              - I see that now. *smile*  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 02:15 AM   #146 
     - regardless, no one else's hands belong in that area uninvited...no one n/t  TK421   Apr-28-11 07:05 PM   #62 
        - That is the point...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 07:12 PM   #67 
        - Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and we are even patting down children  TK421   Apr-28-11 07:18 PM   #68 
        - Oh, I completely agree  REP   Apr-28-11 07:23 PM   #73 
           - The whole vagina, vulva thing is really fucking irritating....folks, that is just like  TK421   Apr-28-11 07:28 PM   #75 
              - I understand "vagina" is used to mean labia, vulva, pudendum, etc - I think most people do, really  REP   Apr-28-11 07:44 PM   #82 
                 - I know, and it is still your private area...that is what I find irritating  TK421   Apr-28-11 07:51 PM   #83 
                    - We agree; additionally, mocking her for her word choice is assinine  REP   Apr-28-11 08:01 PM   #88 
                    - absolutely...and yeah, you were clear :)  TK421   Apr-28-11 08:17 PM   #97 
                    - The most depressing part is seeing DUers here defending such actions...  hlthe2b   Apr-28-11 08:01 PM   #89 
                       - You say cowardly, and I'll raise you one....I say accepting of it  TK421   Apr-28-11 08:18 PM   #98 
                       - whoever it is  shanti   Apr-28-11 08:18 PM   #99 
  - I'm glad others notice this also  uppityperson   Apr-28-11 06:11 PM   #31 
  - HEY! I drive a Volva ... it has a spoiler too  underpants   Apr-28-11 06:12 PM   #32 
  - Who cares what kind of car she drives?  Blue-Jay   Apr-28-11 08:00 PM   #87 
  - I'm glad that the TSA is protecting us from exploding vagina's.  L0oniX   Apr-28-11 05:27 PM   #4 
  - Similar attacks have already happened.  boppers   Apr-28-11 08:30 PM   #108 
     - While over 40,000 people die every year I think there are other more likely ways to die.  L0oniX   Apr-29-11 10:09 AM   #157 
  - There is only one way to stop this, and that is for the American public to stop flying  MadHound   Apr-28-11 05:32 PM   #5 
  - That's what the boys want.  formercia   Apr-28-11 05:37 PM   #7 
  - No, I don't think so  MadHound   Apr-28-11 05:51 PM   #17 
  - Loosen your tin foil hat.  TheWraith   Apr-28-11 06:07 PM   #27 
  - Travelers need to ease up!  chbrad2   Apr-28-11 05:37 PM   #8 
  - 'Scuse me, have you worked with back scatter scanners?  MadHound   Apr-28-11 05:50 PM   #16 
     - Don't forget to *send* the dosimeter off between the checkpoint and the plane.  boppers   Apr-28-11 08:36 PM   #114 
     - Right on  chbrad2   Apr-30-11 01:45 PM   #180 
  - Agreed  Sherman A1   Apr-28-11 05:48 PM   #15 
  - Exactly right.  TheWraith   Apr-28-11 06:08 PM   #28 
  - i am there. i refuse. i have turned down trips and driven across country  seabeyond   Apr-28-11 06:16 PM   #36 
  - My daughter gave up the opportunity for a scholarship at an  LibDemAlways   May-01-11 12:43 AM   #188 
  - Aren't Miss USA winners Trump employees?  Bad Thoughts   Apr-28-11 05:39 PM   #9 
  - Are the children who have been molested by the TSA Trump  sabrina 1   Apr-28-11 05:54 PM   #19 
     - It's a question of politicization  Bad Thoughts   Apr-28-11 06:25 PM   #44 
        - Oh bullshit, sorry to be so blunt.  sabrina 1   Apr-28-11 06:49 PM   #54 
           - You're naive, sorry to be blunt  Bad Thoughts   Apr-28-11 06:56 PM   #58 
              - Did you read what has been to little children? To men,  sabrina 1   Apr-28-11 11:52 PM   #124 
  - I think anyone planning to ask for a pat-down should wear slacks.  pnwmom   Apr-28-11 05:54 PM   #20 
  - So we should just now resign ourselves to the abuse,  MadHound   Apr-28-11 06:02 PM   #24 
  - I didn't say you couldn't protest as well.  pnwmom   Apr-28-11 06:13 PM   #34 
     - ...or the gov't could not have flyers molested. nt  U4ikLefty   Apr-29-11 01:18 AM   #131 
  - I wonder what happens when a woman is patted down and she wearing a maxi pad?  notadmblnd   Apr-28-11 06:48 PM   #53 
  - The police would do a strip search...  JuniperLea   Apr-28-11 06:56 PM   #59 
     - Why would they do that? My daughter had a pat-down while wearing a pad  pnwmom   Apr-28-11 07:07 PM   #65 
        - Then WTF is the point of these patdowns anyway?  LisaL   Apr-28-11 07:20 PM   #70 
           - Would a pad feel like a bomb? n/t  pnwmom   Apr-28-11 07:26 PM   #74 
              - Plastic explosives can be molded into any shape.  LisaL   Apr-28-11 07:30 PM   #77 
                 - What I've read is that some women who were wearing pads  pnwmom   Apr-28-11 11:33 PM   #121 
                    - How disgusting, that people are even talking about this.  sabrina 1   Apr-29-11 01:27 AM   #134 
  - She had JEANS on.  Matariki   Apr-28-11 08:33 PM   #111 
     - If she was wearing jeans, how could they  pnwmom   Apr-28-11 11:43 PM   #123 
        - I don't think there is anyone here who doesn't understand what  LisaL   Apr-29-11 02:04 AM   #145 
        - I guess after having gone through countless exams and the birth  pnwmom   Apr-29-11 02:53 AM   #148 
           - It always amazes me that people can so completely fail to put themselves in another's place.  Matariki   Apr-29-11 12:54 PM   #168 
        - I think you are unnecessarily nitpicking words. The point remains.  Matariki   Apr-29-11 12:46 PM   #166 
  - Such a high profile person should denounce Homeland Security policies n/t  leftstreet   Apr-28-11 05:59 PM   #22 
  - I've been convinced for a while that some of these people think...  AngryOldDem   Apr-28-11 06:00 PM   #23 
  - lots of jobs  shanti   Apr-28-11 08:27 PM   #104 
  - Whiny child. Doesn't she understand being molested is necessary to protect her from terra?  BlueIris   Apr-28-11 06:55 PM   #56 
  - I'm really beginning to think some of these agents get off on this shit n.t  TK421   Apr-28-11 07:19 PM   #69 
  - ya think? other than the opportunity to steal iShit...  Sen. Walter Sobchak   Apr-28-11 08:28 PM   #107 
     - from what I'm told, the pay is pretty decent  TK421   Apr-28-11 08:44 PM   #116 
  - This thread is worthless without pictures....  aikoaiko   Apr-28-11 08:10 PM   #93 
  - This is a good reason not to fly w/your kids these days.  ClarkUSA   Apr-28-11 08:13 PM   #94 
  - Next ... strip searches -- !! Body cavity searches -- !!  defendandprotect   Apr-28-11 08:20 PM   #100 
  - Someone should do a study on whether young women are being disproportionately targeted  Matariki   Apr-28-11 08:31 PM   #110 
  - Clearly it's a case of sex-crazed Lesbians being paid to run amock at our nation's airports  Johnny Morales   Apr-28-11 08:35 PM   #112 
  - Reading what she wrote, yes, a "pat down" includes "grazing private area".I don't think it is right  uppityperson   Apr-28-11 08:36 PM   #115 
  - Pics or it didn't happen.  Nailzberg   Apr-28-11 10:19 PM   #119 
  - You really want to see a woman in a situation that is obviously distressing to her? Creepy. n/t  demmiblue   Apr-28-11 10:24 PM   #120 
  - Many males think it's 'funny'.  Mimosa   Apr-29-11 01:27 AM   #133 
     - Perverts, these tactics were thought up by perverts, just like the  sabrina 1   Apr-29-11 03:03 AM   #149 
  - I kind of feel like slapping you with a book written by Judith Butler.  Paradoxical   Apr-29-11 01:32 AM   #137 
  - sexual molestation turns you on? a woman crying excites you? nt  seabeyond   Apr-29-11 09:55 AM   #155 
  - I'd rather fly out of Tel Aviv than Atlanta right now.  crickets   Apr-29-11 03:10 AM   #150 
  - Abolish the TSA.  Eric J in MN   Apr-29-11 09:49 AM   #153 
  - I know I'll be flamed or put on ignore but...  ecstatic   Apr-29-11 10:08 AM   #156 
  - yes you are correct  StarburstClock   Apr-29-11 11:21 AM   #160 
  - No flames here. For you or Juniper. If you are getting pat down, yes, your "private area" gets  uppityperson   Apr-29-11 11:25 AM   #161 
  - Exactly. I don't see the need for pat downs either  ecstatic   Apr-29-11 11:44 AM   #163 
  - so she deserved it for not taking the x-ray?  CreekDog   Apr-30-11 02:13 PM   #182 
     - deserved what? a standard pat down?  ecstatic   Apr-30-11 06:39 PM   #184 
        - i trust science and doctors on vaccines  CreekDog   Apr-30-11 06:57 PM   #185 
  - Hate to nit-pick, but the word I think she wants is 'vulva'  Taverner   Apr-29-11 12:28 PM   #164 
  - so so many sheep and shill comments on this thread, shame on the anti-liberty posters  stockholmer   Apr-29-11 12:38 PM   #165 
  - Where? Link to one that says this is ok. Link or quit the insults  uppityperson   Apr-29-11 12:49 PM   #167 
     - do not patronize me, please, I know you have read the strand, starting w/ reply #1  stockholmer   Apr-30-11 03:28 AM   #178 
        - I do not think that word means what you think it means. You can read minds? wow.  uppityperson   May-01-11 12:13 AM   #186 
  - Has anyone seen the word "vagina" appear on a newspaper front page over this?  flamingdem   Apr-29-11 12:57 PM   #169 
  - She said she's been patted down before and it was no problem  Catherine Vincent   Apr-29-11 01:03 PM   #171 
  - Uh...she touched your vagina?  Aerows   Apr-29-11 01:05 PM   #172 
  - oh...this is the Susie Castillo from MTV?  alp227   Apr-29-11 01:24 PM   #173 
  - Infuckingcredible  pecwae   Apr-29-11 03:51 PM   #176 
  - Sorry. We know what she meant  Taverner   Apr-30-11 02:19 PM   #183 
  - It would be very difficult to touch a vagina on a clothed body.  Vinca   Apr-30-11 02:09 PM   #181 
  - I do a lot of travleing for work. Just this past week, I went through  johnaries   May-01-11 12:31 AM   #187 
 

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