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Reply #145: Awww, my friend there are so many famous nudes of men in Europe.... [View All]

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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #139
145. Awww, my friend there are so many famous nudes of men in Europe....
Michealangelo's "David", "The Thinker", that famous Greek discus statue (yummy), the nude known as "Hector" (love that painting), the statue of Adam, or Davinci's Vetruvian man....

I do think Europe is far less hung up on nudity than the US. Of course I'm Irish which is probably as religiously uptight and repressed society as there ever was... so take my perspective with a grain of salt. But that certainly means my eyes pop out at the lovely nudes in Europe that seem (to me! heh) to be everywhere.
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  -Can someone explain how posing half-naked for a magazine "liberates" a woman? closeupready  Apr-20-11 09:58 AM   #0 
  - "My body, my choice."  Le Taz Hot   Apr-20-11 10:00 AM   #1 
  - Ok, but was she being coerced into keeping her clothes on?  closeupready   Apr-20-11 10:02 AM   #5 
  - Yes, she was being coerced from birth to be "modest"  snooper2   Apr-20-11 10:04 AM   #7 
  - +1  Deep13   Apr-20-11 10:14 AM   #15 
  - Yes, coerced by birth probably due to religious reasons  BoWanZi   Apr-20-11 10:35 AM   #22 
  - +1. Seems simple enough. nt  blondeatlast   Apr-20-11 02:00 PM   #44 
  - If you were raised to believe that your body was shameful and had to be completely covered, to  sinkingfeeling   Apr-20-11 10:01 AM   #2 
  - Her family is apparently Western-oriented and moderate, given  closeupready   Apr-20-11 10:03 AM   #6 
     - "...deliberate message to her conservative Turkish family."  sinkingfeeling   Apr-20-11 10:06 AM   #8 
        - so go to the other extreme, strip down for a bunch of males to objectify you....  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 02:17 PM   #53 
           - She got to choose  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 02:27 PM   #59 
           - not at all. that has nothing ot do with what i said. nt  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 02:58 PM   #74 
              - In her culture women are the private property of their husbands  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 04:53 PM   #94 
           - Speaking as a person who  Ninjaneer   Apr-20-11 11:03 PM   #116 
           - she can do whatever she wants  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 11:06 PM   #117 
              - I understand the purpose of a discussion board.  Ninjaneer   Apr-20-11 11:28 PM   #121 
              - She's not feeding a patriarchy.  LetTimmySmoke   Apr-21-11 01:07 AM   #128 
              - Many here seem not to understand the purpose of discussion.  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:07 AM   #133 
                 - such simple words, yet still, they are ignored, lol. nt  seabeyond   Apr-21-11 09:17 AM   #138 
                    - I think some here really WANT to see a conservative boogeyman -  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:26 AM   #141 
                       - i laughed  seabeyond   Apr-21-11 09:27 AM   #142 
           - Yeah, how *dare* she not share your militant opinions!  DutchLiberal   Apr-21-11 01:12 PM   #165 
              - I'll share your opinions on upbringing and  truedelphi   Apr-24-11 03:17 PM   #172 
  - Liberation is the ability to do what you want.  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-20-11 10:01 AM   #3 
  - Her fake boobs at that.  cliffordu   Apr-20-11 10:14 AM   #16 
     - meow hiss nt  sudopod   Apr-20-11 10:26 AM   #18 
     - And how are you so sure about that?  ProgressiveProfessor   Apr-20-11 10:33 AM   #21 
     - Let's go contribute to her liberation by ogling the photos and speculating about that question. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-20-11 01:38 PM   #41 
     - Exactly. Treating women as sex objects is 'respectful' in just a handful of scenarios, IMO.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 02:03 PM   #46 
     - So to prevent her from being treated as an object  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 02:28 PM   #60 
     - Nonresponsive to my post.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 02:33 PM   #64 
     - You equate nudity with objectification  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 02:35 PM   #66 
     - no one is forcing anyone to do anything watson. because the hypocrisy is called out and discussed  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 03:00 PM   #75 
        - I'm thinking that many here who assert that we are 'forcing' her to wear a burqa (or  closeupready   Apr-20-11 03:02 PM   #77 
        - ya  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 06:01 PM   #102 
           - There was a time it'd bother me; now, it doesn't - as much.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 09:45 PM   #103 
        - From the article, the Turkish actress who posed, says she did it so other girls can break free  riderinthestorm   Apr-20-11 03:07 PM   #80 
        - so she strips to feed that very patriarchy that uses sexual objectification of women  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 03:10 PM   #83 
        - She's taking the ultimate western icon of female porn  riderinthestorm   Apr-20-11 03:18 PM   #84 
        - it is like when iranian pres says, cleavage cause earthquakes  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 03:27 PM   #85 
        - What if she stripped naked in a closet  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 04:51 PM   #92 
        - If you think one extreme is the same as the other, you have my sympathy.  cliffordu   Apr-20-11 10:11 PM   #110 
           - it is about repression and control, not about burqas and nipples. nt  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 10:42 PM   #112 
              - Sorry.  cliffordu   Apr-20-11 10:49 PM   #114 
        - But don't you see? This girl can't decide for herself what's liberating for her. She needs feminists  DutchLiberal   Apr-21-11 01:18 PM   #167 
        - Stating without any doubt that  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 04:47 PM   #90 
        - "Those that insist others shut up & not discuss cause they dont agree with you & others."  DutchLiberal   Apr-21-11 01:16 PM   #166 
     - So not only is she not capable of making the decision, she's not capable of having an opinion?  Warren DeMontague   Apr-20-11 05:11 PM   #98 
     - Yep.  cliffordu   Apr-20-11 10:11 PM   #111 
     - So: she's obviousy too stupid to have made her own decision in the matter?  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 09:46 AM   #148 
        - Yet, if she decided she wanted to wear a burka, you'd be telling us she'd been brainwashed.  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:55 AM   #150 
        - If wearing a burka meant the difference between life and death??  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 10:05 AM   #152 
           - Now you employ the term Patriarchy. I guess it's only patriarchal oppression when you say so,  closeupready   Apr-21-11 10:07 AM   #153 
              - Where do you get that? When did I refuse to employ the term?  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 10:10 AM   #154 
                 - Post 114.  closeupready   Apr-21-11 10:19 AM   #156 
                    - ....Annnnnnnnddddddd  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 10:28 AM   #157 
        - Luckily, we have militant anti-sex feminists to guide her!  DutchLiberal   Apr-21-11 01:19 PM   #168 
           - Yep.  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 01:43 PM   #169 
     - The prior poster was seemed so sure about it, so it seemed fair to ask why  ProgressiveProfessor   Apr-20-11 10:45 PM   #113 
        - I have a little difficulty with the concept of blaming those who view the pictures...  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-21-11 11:53 AM   #160 
     - It should be obvious  TorchTheWitch   Apr-21-11 12:43 AM   #125 
     - Have you seen the picture? n/t  burrfoot   Apr-21-11 12:59 PM   #163 
     - you can tell they're fake...  Maine-ah   Apr-20-11 09:56 PM   #105 
        - LOL.....  cliffordu   Apr-20-11 10:00 PM   #106 
        - Oh damn  snooper2   Apr-21-11 09:49 AM   #149 
  - Well, it does liberate her from her 'foundation garments.'  msanthrope   Apr-20-11 10:02 AM   #4 
  - People tell us our bodies and our sexuality are bad.  ZombieHorde   Apr-20-11 10:10 AM   #9 
  - You know what?  JustAnotherGen   Apr-20-11 10:11 AM   #10 
  - LOL, I think you nailed it.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 10:13 AM   #12 
  - The restrictive Islamic dress code and other rules it imposes on women...  Deep13   Apr-20-11 10:13 AM   #11 
  - A feeling of being liberated is a subjective thing, not something that can be objectively measured.  Speck Tater   Apr-20-11 10:13 AM   #13 
  - +1. nt  blondeatlast   Apr-20-11 02:02 PM   #45 
  - Well said...nt  SidDithers   Apr-20-11 05:10 PM   #97 
  - Because she is choosing instead of submitting to her family's religion.  Dappleganger   Apr-20-11 10:14 AM   #14 
  - Sure, if she were to make enough money from this, it could liberate her from  Cal33   Apr-20-11 10:16 AM   #17 
  - If she says it felt liberating, then thats all the explanation you need.  phleshdef   Apr-20-11 10:27 AM   #19 
  - If she told me doing somersaults made her angry, I might still seek explanation.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 10:51 AM   #25 
  - Your tone came across as being critical towards her.  phleshdef   Apr-20-11 01:36 PM   #40 
     - Perhaps. Yesterday, though, there was a thread about allowing children to dress 'inappropriately'  closeupready   Apr-20-11 01:52 PM   #42 
        - No! The thread yesterday was about children, this Turkish actress is a woman  riderinthestorm   Apr-20-11 01:59 PM   #43 
        - "Nudity is and can be dignified." Especially when I do it in the Library.  AngryAmish   Apr-20-11 02:12 PM   #50 
        - Um, these aren't "childhood restrictions". WTF are you talking about?  phleshdef   Apr-20-11 02:09 PM   #49 
           - They are. Did you even read the article???  closeupready   Apr-20-11 02:13 PM   #51 
  - Exactly! nt  thereismore   Apr-20-11 10:52 AM   #26 
  - +1  Vinnie From Indy   Apr-20-11 11:23 AM   #36 
  - Nail, meet hammer.  Ninjaneer   Apr-20-11 11:15 PM   #119 
  - Because it is her choice  ProgressiveProfessor   Apr-20-11 10:32 AM   #20 
  - Oh why can't they just expose the left half or the right half?  RedCloud   Apr-20-11 10:39 AM   #23 
  - I respect that she's chosen to do this  Dorian Gray   Apr-20-11 10:44 AM   #24 
  - There was a video I rented, with a short docu. on an English Muslim female porn star -  closeupready   Apr-20-11 10:55 AM   #27 
  - +1  Poll_Blind   Apr-20-11 10:57 AM   #29 
     - That is really an excellent point! I was an art student in college (initially)  closeupready   Apr-20-11 11:03 AM   #32 
        - There's the rub, of course: The difference is all in our eyes. And in that regards, we....  Poll_Blind   Apr-20-11 11:13 AM   #34 
        - And yet, it's her own name that is known. The model for the VdM is unknown  muriel_volestrangler   Apr-20-11 11:34 AM   #37 
        - What's the difference?  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 02:31 PM   #61 
           - That question is a subject of study without a clear answer whatsoever.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 02:34 PM   #65 
           - The definition of art is simple  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 02:37 PM   #67 
              - I disagree with you.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 02:44 PM   #70 
                 - Uh "Piss Christ" actually IS a pile of crap, and actually IS art.  riderinthestorm   Apr-20-11 02:50 PM   #72 
                 - So there is no objective standard for art  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 04:46 PM   #89 
           - That's a very interesting question. I like it.  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 09:20 AM   #140 
  - The irony is, of course......  Wounded Bear   Apr-20-11 10:56 AM   #28 
  - +1  sinkingfeeling   Apr-20-11 11:17 AM   #35 
  - Why doesn't that work the same way for men?  leftstreet   Apr-20-11 02:06 PM   #47 
     - Because generally if a woman wanted to see male genitals  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 02:32 PM   #63 
        - True.  U4ikLefty   Apr-20-11 11:35 PM   #122 
  - Rebelling Against a Culture That Requires Her Whole Body to be Covered  AndyTiedye   Apr-20-11 10:59 AM   #30 
  - She may find she has traded one restriction for another.  DevonRex   Apr-20-11 11:00 AM   #31 
  - Liberation is in the mind of the person who wants to feel  MineralMan   Apr-20-11 11:10 AM   #33 
  - No  elleng   Apr-20-11 11:35 AM   #38 
  - In this country I can't  eowyn_of_rohan   Apr-20-11 11:40 AM   #39 
  - Sometimes I have to make sure I'm not at conservativeunderground. nt  Modern_Matthew   Apr-20-11 02:08 PM   #48 
  - I don't doubt that for a moment. nt  blondeatlast   Apr-20-11 10:08 PM   #108 
  - Because those who want their daughters to grow up to be rocket scientists and prime ministers,  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:12 AM   #136 
  - I took an advanced post-grad class on the subject (Madonna among the examples)  librechik   Apr-20-11 02:15 PM   #52 
  - You don't get it because you are a conservative/disrespect women's choices/yadda yadda.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 02:19 PM   #54 
  - There's been plenty of reasonable discussion on this thread.  EOTE   Apr-20-11 02:55 PM   #73 
  - Boy you could have come down to my local women's shelter and had this convo for free  riderinthestorm   Apr-20-11 02:32 PM   #62 
  - I'm with you  Keith Bee   Apr-20-11 02:48 PM   #71 
  - I thoroughly approve her take-that against the fundies. Fuck them all.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Apr-20-11 02:19 PM   #55 
  - Having and making choices is liberating  lunatica   Apr-20-11 02:20 PM   #56 
  - That makes sense, yes.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 02:22 PM   #57 
  - Well from a muslim background it means she is rejected notions forced on her  WatsonT   Apr-20-11 02:26 PM   #58 
  - I have an idea.. How about we don't talk about  walldude   Apr-20-11 02:41 PM   #68 
  - yet in france they hide apollo. nt  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 03:03 PM   #78 
     - Not any more, putting his explicit self back up.  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 09:09 AM   #135 
        - yes... i know. wehre i got info. in the oh so sexually sophisticated france  seabeyond   Apr-21-11 09:19 AM   #139 
           - I don't pretend any such thing.  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 09:34 AM   #144 
           - Awww, my friend there are so many famous nudes of men in Europe....  riderinthestorm   Apr-21-11 09:41 AM   #145 
  - It would be the same for you if you were forced to live like your parents  county worker   Apr-20-11 02:43 PM   #69 
  - You don't have to understand why things make people feel any specific way.  PeaceNikki   Apr-20-11 03:02 PM   #76 
  - I don't have to understand why tides ebb and flow, or why people fall in love.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 03:05 PM   #79 
     - Threatens me? What on earth gave you such a ridiculous idea?  PeaceNikki   Apr-20-11 03:29 PM   #86 
        - Your suggestion that a lack of need-to-know renders discussion rude and/or pointless.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 03:39 PM   #87 
  - choice is choice....  spanone   Apr-20-11 03:07 PM   #81 
  - But that is a tautology, and doesn't shed light on her reasoning. As  closeupready   Apr-20-11 03:43 PM   #88 
  - If she feels liberated, then she is - it is her feeling, not ours. nt  Obamanaut   Apr-20-11 03:09 PM   #82 
  - Fuckk SS and Medicare ! This is an issue we really need to be addressing.  RagAss   Apr-20-11 04:49 PM   #91 
  - Germany is a lot less uptight about that kind of thing.  InvisibleTouch   Apr-20-11 04:52 PM   #93 
  - I sort of understand it. When I first wore a  Cleita   Apr-20-11 04:56 PM   #95 
  - There we go. I can totally cheer you on there.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 05:58 PM   #100 
  - It liberates her because she feels that it liberates her.  Warren DeMontague   Apr-20-11 05:09 PM   #96 
  - Tautologies are, by definition, irrational.  closeupready   Apr-20-11 05:58 PM   #101 
     - Not in this case, when you're dealing with a subjective phenomena. Liberation is subjective.  Warren DeMontague   Apr-20-11 11:47 PM   #123 
        - Liberation is not subjective.  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:00 AM   #130 
           - There's nothing so liberating as letting others define liberation for you, huh?  Warren DeMontague   Apr-22-11 07:40 PM   #170 
  - Because she wanted to and didn't let her fundie family values stop her  TNLib   Apr-20-11 05:26 PM   #99 
  - Spend 10 years in a Burka and then come ask again  Motown_Johnny   Apr-20-11 09:47 PM   #104 
  - Nudity in general is liberating.  themadstork   Apr-20-11 10:02 PM   #107 
  - Probably, lol.  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:16 AM   #137 
  - You're right. Half naked wouldn't make a lot of sense to me. But fully naked, that's a whole  Guy Whitey Corngood   Apr-20-11 10:09 PM   #109 
  - Read an article about a parapalegic female athlete who posed nude for a sports magazine  pinkkillersheep   Apr-20-11 10:49 PM   #115 
  - because she could not have gotten that across to you with all her accomplishments, only in getting  seabeyond   Apr-20-11 11:07 PM   #118 
     - I more meant how I view the physically disabled sexually  pinkkillersheep   Apr-21-11 09:56 AM   #151 
  - Haven't read this but how about females going bare-breasted on beaches?  defendandprotect   Apr-20-11 11:18 PM   #120 
  - That makes sense to me. Some women will march bare-breasted in the Gay Pride Parade.  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:03 AM   #131 
  - there are nude works of art and there is exploitation. that's  okieinpain   Apr-21-11 12:13 AM   #124 
  - It's not the posing that's liberating.  LetTimmySmoke   Apr-21-11 01:04 AM   #126 
  - Americans are way too hung up about nudity.  grahamhgreen   Apr-21-11 01:06 AM   #127 
  - voluntarily shedding of one's clothes is classic symbolic liberation  TorchTheWitch   Apr-21-11 01:50 AM   #129 
  - The commercial taint to the act is an important part of the context to the question.  closeupready   Apr-21-11 09:06 AM   #132 
     - Except this woman possibly stands to lose as much money as she gains  riderinthestorm   Apr-21-11 09:33 AM   #143 
        - Her awareness of the risks of the loss of career choices and, possibly  cliffordu   Apr-21-11 09:44 AM   #147 
  - Independence from social mores.  no_hypocrisy   Apr-21-11 09:08 AM   #134 
  - Money is liberating  JustABozoOnThisBus   Apr-21-11 09:43 AM   #146 
  - If the restriction is that you can't do something...  Iggo   Apr-21-11 10:13 AM   #155 
  - eh...Miss Turkey from the Hardee's commercial looks about 10x better...  Blue_Tires   Apr-21-11 10:51 AM   #158 
  - Shame on you!!!!  closeupready   Apr-21-11 12:37 PM   #161 
  - The odd thing is. I've never seen a fat chick "liberate herself" in such a way.  cottonseed   Apr-21-11 11:00 AM   #159 
  - Plenty of BBW nudity out there.  Forkboy   Apr-21-11 12:44 PM   #162 
  - Because she's the one making the decision. End of discussion.  DutchLiberal   Apr-21-11 01:10 PM   #164 
  - It's never been done before!  ismnotwasm   Apr-22-11 07:53 PM   #171 
  - many western parents would be upset with their daughters doing this also  JI7   Apr-24-11 04:25 PM   #173 
  - If it has to be explained to you..  sendero   Apr-24-11 04:28 PM   #174 
  - So here's a shocker: A man writes that he approves of her posing,  closeupready   Apr-25-11 01:42 PM   #175 
     - She wants to be objectified, and she's an attractive object.  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-25-11 01:50 PM   #176 

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