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Reply #89: Using Europe in this "argument" is apples & slingshots [View All]

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
89. Using Europe in this "argument" is apples & slingshots
not even close enough to be apples & oranges:

The cost of "petrol" in Europe is mostly TAXES..

Those taxes go to support a MASSIVE public transportation system that we DON'T have (and probably never will have)..

Taxes in Europe also fund an excellent (for now at least) PUBLIC HEALTH CARE SYSTEM that we DON'T have (and won't have until the boomers all die off)

Taxes also provide unemployment compensation there that is a LOT kinder than we have here

Taxes there provide a safety net for elders

Taxes there provide education benefits that allow young people to study & graduate without soul-crushing life-long debt like we have here.

Taxes there pay for a broad-ranging array of services that citizens deserve...there are strong unions, well-paid workers with 6-7 weeks of PAID vacation yearly, child care benefits, PAID maternity leave for BOTH parents

Europe treats their citizens with dignity and actually provides some benefits with the citizenship...unlike here.

TAXES support the whole system and people don't mind paying taxes there because they don't also have to shell out HUGE payments to already-rich (and greedy) insurance companies..

Many people here in the US would gladly switch "systems", if given the chance.

Their cars are also a LOT more efficient than the behemoth gas guzzlers we allow..
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  -My neighbor told me yesterday it is getting too expensive for her to work. $40 each day for gas. Horse with no Name  Apr-18-11 09:08 AM   #0 
  - So why isn't her elected Republican Governor doing something?  Historic NY   Apr-18-11 09:11 AM   #1 
  - So...this is HER fault?  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:13 AM   #3 
     - Thats the way it works  madokie   Apr-18-11 09:20 AM   #15 
     - The was my point.........all while he is looking for handouts .  Historic NY   Apr-18-11 09:38 AM   #27 
     - Seriously not be argumentative  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:49 AM   #33 
        - You're right about that. Everyone is hurting.  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 03:06 PM   #97 
        - That was my experience regarding advertising one's progressive and Democratic ideas.  freshwest   Apr-19-11 01:49 AM   #140 
        - AMERICANS are vehicle dependent.  maxsolomon   Apr-19-11 04:07 PM   #177 
           - I know that. My area has so much public transportation many people don't bother with owning one.  freshwest   Apr-19-11 05:14 PM   #179 
        - New York CITY may have better mass transit  Autumn Colors   Apr-19-11 06:28 AM   #155 
     - My friends down there are simply enduring. In fact, they say that in their minds,  freshwest   Apr-19-11 01:46 AM   #139 
  - $40/day in an economy car?  dkf   Apr-18-11 09:11 AM   #2 
  - About 250 miles a day, round trip. n/t  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:14 AM   #5 
  - wow. that's some drive  Liberal_in_LA   Apr-18-11 02:52 PM   #93 
  - Been there, done that.  freshwest   Apr-19-11 01:50 AM   #141 
  - she said she drives two hours each way  Mason Dixon   Apr-19-11 08:40 AM   #163 
  - That would only be about 10 gallons of gas  madokie   Apr-18-11 09:17 AM   #9 
  - 10 x $4 = 40  Shagbark Hickory   Apr-18-11 11:57 AM   #70 
  - It says 'economical car' not economy car  Bluenorthwest   Apr-18-11 09:18 AM   #11 
  - +1. I was too late for the birfer thread, but very well done, BN!  blondeatlast   Apr-18-11 09:34 AM   #25 
  - Funny...if you google economical car they tend to give you a list of economy cars.  dkf   Apr-18-11 09:53 AM   #34 
     - quite a bit more economical than buying four $2000 economy cars...  LanternWaste   Apr-18-11 11:43 AM   #63 
     - Many states besides Hawaii have simple computerized print-outs.  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 01:22 PM   #86 
     - self edit  Quantess   Apr-18-11 11:39 PM   #135 
     - So you blame Hawaii??!??  JTFrog   Apr-19-11 06:36 AM   #156 
  - $4 a gal x 8 gal (240 mi. total per day, divided by 30 mpg.)  Davis_X_Machina   Apr-18-11 09:19 AM   #14 
  - If you live in rural America and don't farm , quite often the  Skidmore   Apr-18-11 09:23 AM   #17 
  - Exactly.  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:32 AM   #20 
  - I should have also mentioned that most small farmers have a second job  Skidmore   Apr-18-11 10:11 AM   #39 
     - Before we got out of the farming business  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 10:47 AM   #47 
  - I talk on the radio...  Davis_X_Machina   Apr-18-11 09:34 AM   #24 
  - I've always been puzzled by people who don't move in that situation.  Gormy Cuss   Apr-18-11 10:55 AM   #51 
     - It's his house. The back woods of New England..  Davis_X_Machina   Apr-18-11 11:16 AM   #55 
        - That's even more puzzling since it sounds like it's not his ancestral home.  Gormy Cuss   Apr-18-11 11:40 AM   #62 
           - Yeah, I drive from near Portland up to Long Lake, our commutes cross...  Davis_X_Machina   Apr-18-11 11:53 AM   #68 
  - Forgive my ignorance but then why live in a rural area then?  Shagbark Hickory   Apr-18-11 12:02 PM   #73 
  - Because it's expensive to live in the cities and suburbs.  readmoreoften   Apr-18-11 12:14 PM   #76 
     - Well you can't use the reason "because cities are too expensive" and complain about it being  Shagbark Hickory   Apr-18-11 03:34 PM   #99 
        - Yes you can. If you live in the country because you have been priced out  truedelphi   Apr-18-11 06:03 PM   #106 
           - And such urban areas don't have community support of affordable housing, either.  freshwest   Apr-19-11 01:51 AM   #142 
              - Sadly, that is very very true. n/t  truedelphi   Apr-19-11 03:38 PM   #171 
                 - Until the rural poor end up in the city, dispossessed of their land. That's the intent.  freshwest   Apr-19-11 03:50 PM   #173 
  - I can understand that if a person has a spouse with a local job  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 02:58 PM   #94 
  - And who buys your house  rpannier   Apr-19-11 01:11 AM   #136 
     - Cheap gas pushes up the prices of rural properties  customerserviceguy   Apr-19-11 06:23 AM   #154 
        - another option, at that price, stay over night close to your job  dixiegrrrrl   Apr-20-11 06:07 PM   #182 
  - Yes, this is partly why we end up sounding "elitist"  Quantess   Apr-18-11 10:59 PM   #133 
  - yep  datasuspect   Apr-19-11 04:08 AM   #150 
  - Amazing isn't it  madokie   Apr-18-11 09:13 AM   #4 
  - Yep. I think the time is nearing that we will see something happening  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:18 AM   #10 
     - Thats what worries me too  madokie   Apr-18-11 09:34 AM   #23 
     - You're going to see the REAL class war... between poor and middleclass.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 02:22 PM   #92 
  - as long as we are slaves to the oil companies, then we are going to get soaked at the pump.  ejpoeta   Apr-18-11 09:15 AM   #6 
  - Oh we see it, but that brick wall doesn't have a lobbyist group. n/t  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:17 AM   #7 
  - Sorry but cheap gas is not the solution to 250-mile commutes.  AtheistCrusader   Apr-19-11 08:34 AM   #161 
  - Is there a reason she doesn't move to the other city?  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 09:17 AM   #8 
  - Did you read the OP?  madokie   Apr-18-11 09:18 AM   #12 
  - I did read it but apparently you didn't.  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 12:39 PM   #77 
     - It's expensive to move. It takes time to move.  haele   Apr-18-11 08:35 PM   #119 
  - She is a single woman who can afford her house where she is.  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:19 AM   #13 
  - When the gas price gets to the point where she is paying even more than presently,  Obamanaut   Apr-18-11 10:20 AM   #42 
  - Respectfully - Where in the hell does she move to? Germany? And does anyone  jtuck004   Apr-19-11 04:22 AM   #152 
     - She moves to where her job is so she doesn't spend all that $ on gas. Is her  Obamanaut   Apr-19-11 01:00 PM   #170 
        - You didn't read the part about her home - and not being able to sell it.  jtuck004   Apr-19-11 03:41 PM   #172 
           - By not spending 200 dollars a week on gas, some of that money can go  Obamanaut   Apr-19-11 03:56 PM   #174 
              - The problem exists for millions of unemployed and under-employed of our  jtuck004   Apr-19-11 04:04 PM   #176 
              - Interestingly, I knew several people that would live where their job is (NYC area)  madinmaryland   Apr-20-11 06:15 PM   #184 
  - It might be better to live in the other town and visit her parents.  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 12:43 PM   #78 
  - This Is Not A Personal Problem, This Is A Societal Problem.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 06:22 PM   #109 
     - Thank you, excellent response  libmom74   Apr-19-11 02:00 AM   #143 
     - So true  tavalon   Apr-19-11 03:58 AM   #149 
     - It IS a personal problem, and there have been many reasonable  Obamanaut   Apr-19-11 04:00 PM   #175 
  - Maybe she could try to find other people to share the expense.  undeterred   Apr-18-11 09:22 AM   #16 
  - You said don't say it, but...  Jazz Ambassador   Apr-18-11 09:25 AM   #18 
  - Ahhh nice of you to join the conversation  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:30 AM   #19 
  - This suggestion always rankles me.  Pacifist Patriot   Apr-18-11 09:33 AM   #21 
  - I know the feeling.  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:40 AM   #28 
  - I agree- I live "Rural", and the DISD is goiing to suffer way worse than we are  w8liftinglady   Apr-18-11 10:26 AM   # 
     - Yep. Luckily for us, in the entire second grade in our school  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 10:44 AM   #46 
  - +1000  guitar man   Apr-18-11 09:57 AM   #36 
     - So that's a valid choice for you. My problem with the OP  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 03:05 PM   #95 
  - Look, I'm sympathetic.  Jazz Ambassador   Apr-18-11 09:44 AM   #31 
  - I agree with you, she needs to move  sammytko   Apr-18-11 10:08 AM   #38 
     - Yes, Judge.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 06:22 PM   #110 
        - yes i judge thanks  sammytko   Apr-18-11 07:02 PM   #112 
           - Please tell us your problems, so we can fix you, also.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 07:18 PM   #114 
              - i have no problems, but thanks anyway - u are such a love!  sammytko   Apr-18-11 10:40 PM   #131 
  - People need to remember ,Texas has almost NO public transportation  w8liftinglady   Apr-18-11 10:25 AM   #43 
  - The transportation system there really is awful.  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 12:49 PM   #80 
  - when i lived there they had some of the best roads i have ever driven  datasuspect   Apr-19-11 04:10 AM   #151 
  - Look, the economy sucks, and we know who to blame. But as a practical matter  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 12:47 PM   #79 
  - but the only practical solution is either move or find a job closer.  alarimer   Apr-18-11 12:58 PM   #83 
  - It does make sense though  Veruca Salt   Apr-18-11 04:12 PM   #102 
     - It would be less than 1200, since she probably doesn't work every day,  sammytko   Apr-18-11 07:04 PM   #113 
        - She's also losing 3 hours a day commuting.  AtheistCrusader   Apr-19-11 08:39 AM   #162 
  - Using Europe in this "argument" is apples & slingshots  SoCalDem   Apr-18-11 02:12 PM   #89 
  - One more thing.  JVS   Apr-19-11 02:21 AM   #145 
  - Let's say she moves (or wants to move)  rpannier   Apr-19-11 01:15 AM   #137 
  - 40.00 a day x 5 days a week =200.00 x 4 weeks = 800.00 a month.  dixiegrrrrl   Apr-20-11 06:12 PM   #183 
  - It's beyond sad to see our family, friends, and neighbors..  Search4Justice   Apr-18-11 09:33 AM   #22 
  - has she even considered finding riders to share the cost?  Donnachaidh   Apr-18-11 09:37 AM   #26 
  - She is the only person that I know from here that drives that far West to work  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 09:42 AM   #29 
     - she needs to research to see if others drive that way  Donnachaidh   Apr-18-11 10:02 AM   #37 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-18-11 06:24 PM   #111 
        - oh come on Bobbie -- talk about a kneejerk answer  Donnachaidh   Apr-18-11 08:55 PM   #120 
           - NOBODY here is called on to "find solutions" for complete strangers.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 09:03 PM   #123 
        - Maybe she isn't good at problem-solving.  Quantess   Apr-18-11 08:18 PM   #117 
           - yes, that's a possibility too  Donnachaidh   Apr-18-11 08:56 PM   #121 
           - Amazing. Unsolicited advice to strangers. Such an enlightened "progressive" trait.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 09:31 PM   #125 
              - Notice I'm not advocating unsolicited advice to strangers, because,  Quantess   Apr-18-11 10:18 PM   #129 
                 - It doesn't occur to you that maybe your "advice" is faulty, or that the person, who you don't know,  bobbolink   Apr-20-11 05:33 PM   #181 
  - She made a bad choice. That's one hell of a commute. Now get this...  Atman   Apr-18-11 09:42 AM   #30 
  - People were told they should leave the city and find homes in the suburb  LynneSin   Apr-18-11 09:47 AM   #32 
  - Clearly she lives too far away from her workplace.  tuckessee   Apr-18-11 09:57 AM   #35 
  - I'm wondering the same thing.  Quantess   Apr-18-11 08:14 PM   #116 
  - Yet, so many "progressives" want a huge raise in the federal gas tax.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 10:14 AM   #40 
  - Those taxes are supposed to help people, not fund war  Mulhane   Apr-18-11 10:49 AM   #48 
  - Well, it sure didn't take long to get here, huh? Losing jobs, not being able to get food.... all  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 02:16 PM   #90 
  - But "deadly" doesn't bother you when its poor people who suffer and die.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 02:18 PM   #91 
  - Are you sure it would have that effect? It might force speculation down, instead, due to lessened  w4rma   Apr-18-11 10:53 AM   #50 
     - I wish it really worked that way  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 11:06 AM   #53 
  - I'm not clear about why someone would live 125 miles from where they work.  kestrel91316   Apr-18-11 10:17 AM   #41 
  - Because as the jobs kept leaving  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 10:37 AM   #45 
  - But for $1200 a month she's paying in gas, she could rent a nice place  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 12:56 PM   #82 
  - Good post, Horse with no name. n/t  truedelphi   Apr-18-11 06:08 PM   #107 
  - Amen. Texas is massive.  Manifestor_of_Light   Apr-18-11 10:34 PM   #130 
  - I think you make a couple very misinformed ..  Search4Justice   Apr-18-11 10:50 AM   #49 
     - S/he's not assuming there is mass transit there in Texas.  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 01:13 PM   #84 
     - You are right.. this is just more of the "personal problem" rather than "SOCIETAL problem"  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 09:33 PM   #126 
  - There are only two ways to lower prices  badtoworse   Apr-18-11 10:26 AM   #44 
  - Can she rent a room in town for five nights and drive home on weekends?  PADemD   Apr-18-11 11:02 AM   #52 
  - I don't know  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 11:07 AM   #54 
     - It would be hard on a family, but she's single.  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 01:16 PM   #85 
  - It seems both of those women need to be educated as to  and-justice-for-all   Apr-18-11 11:16 AM   #56 
  - Can she telecommute instead?  kentauros   Apr-18-11 11:16 AM   #57 
  - She works at a production type job  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 11:25 AM   #59 
     - The last time gasoline went up this high,  kentauros   Apr-18-11 11:32 AM   #60 
        - There are a lot of service jobs that depend on the worker bees.  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 11:36 AM   #61 
           - That's true.  kentauros   Apr-18-11 11:43 AM   #64 
  - She should buy a Prius  taught_me_patience   Apr-18-11 11:25 AM   #58 
  - There is a lack of understanding  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 11:55 AM   #69 
  - Buy American - get a Chevy Volt  Obamanaut   Apr-19-11 01:19 AM   #138 
  - old hippie  mountainlion55   Apr-19-11 07:41 AM   #159 
  - My penny thought and you can keep the change...  whistler162   Apr-19-11 04:49 PM   #178 
  - How nice that you are offering that to her.  bobbolink   Apr-18-11 09:36 PM   #127 
     - She's already spending $800/mo (at least) on gas  taught_me_patience   Apr-18-11 11:30 PM   #134 
  - I can relate.....  Wounded Bear   Apr-18-11 11:44 AM   #65 
  - Texas oil clan at it again....  Zax2me   Apr-18-11 11:45 AM   #66 
  - "Little Bush" was the symptom, not the disease. nt  Wounded Bear   Apr-18-11 11:46 AM   #67 
  - A few practical things that could actually help her  jeff47   Apr-18-11 11:59 AM   #71 
  - Thanks. I'll pass these on to her.  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 12:09 PM   #74 
  - So she doesn't get paid more than about $40 per day, you're saying?  Shagbark Hickory   Apr-18-11 12:00 PM   #72 
  - I don't know what she makes.  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 12:11 PM   #75 
     - Then it sounds like she's bad at numbers. Most republicans are. nt  Shagbark Hickory   Apr-18-11 03:36 PM   #100 
  - Wow! That's a lot of gas.  leftyladyfrommo   Apr-18-11 12:50 PM   #81 
  - Perhaps she could rent a room in someone's home for the weekday nights  eleny   Apr-18-11 02:06 PM   #87 
  - She could rent an apartment for much less than the $1200 per month  pnwmom   Apr-18-11 03:09 PM   #98 
     - It appears that she needs to be near her parents  eleny   Apr-18-11 04:21 PM   #104 
  - A 2 hour commute each way every day is insane.  Electric Monk   Apr-18-11 02:12 PM   #88 
  - American society is designed around the automobile.  Gregorian   Apr-18-11 04:04 PM   #101 
     - No flames here. It's the truth!  Quantess   Apr-18-11 08:25 PM   #118 
  - kr  Hannah Bell   Apr-18-11 03:06 PM   #96 
  - Car-pooling  Vanje   Apr-18-11 04:15 PM   #103 
  - I feel for her...  Capitalocracy   Apr-18-11 04:24 PM   #105 
  - How horrible for her  etherealtruth   Apr-18-11 06:18 PM   #108 
  - Tell your neighbor she has plenty of company.  Brigid   Apr-18-11 07:20 PM   #115 
  - WTF IS WRONG with some of you in this thread??  lildreamer316   Apr-18-11 09:01 PM   #122 
  - Thank you. I am appalled at some of the responses here.  Horse with no Name   Apr-18-11 10:00 PM   #128 
  - +1  readmoreoften   Apr-19-11 02:06 AM   #144 
  - She consumes too much gas.  FooshIt   Apr-18-11 09:29 PM   #124 
  - I pity anyone who has to spend that much time in a car.  roody   Apr-18-11 10:47 PM   #132 
  - Take time to explain to her that this is the result of 30+ years  Sherman A1   Apr-19-11 02:46 AM   #146 
  - WHERE MY JOBS AT MR BONER???????????????  upi402   Apr-19-11 02:58 AM   #147 
  - KNR! n/t  indimuse   Apr-19-11 03:08 AM   #148 
  - Your last sentence, says it all!  bobburgster   Apr-19-11 06:10 AM   #153 
  - dying town, being priced into oblivion. sounds like she has no choice but to move.  NuttyFluffers   Apr-19-11 06:52 AM   #157 
  - thank you! These towns have been on life support for years  sammytko   Apr-19-11 09:41 AM   #168 
  - I'd like to offer one solution. >>  BlueJazz   Apr-19-11 06:55 AM   #158 
  - This is one more reason why we need a National high speed rail system with light  Lorien   Apr-19-11 08:23 AM   #160 
  - Monorail! Monorail!  Mason Dixon   Apr-19-11 08:47 AM   #164 
  - This won't help - she'll always find some reason to complain.  cbdo2007   Apr-19-11 12:12 PM   #169 
     - That doesn't seem fair. You assume a bit too much for me. nt  yeswecanandwedid   Apr-20-11 10:35 AM   #180 
  - Up hill Right? Both Ways  Mason Dixon   Apr-19-11 08:59 AM   #165 
  - A belated BIG THANK YOU, HWNN...  MrMickeysMom   Apr-19-11 09:05 AM   #166 
  - They ALL taking the money and running. Jobs aren't the only thing exiting this country. nt  valerief   Apr-19-11 09:14 AM   #167 
 

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