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Reply #135: BNGO!!! Fascism Anyone?? Check out #11 [View All]

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #132
135. BNGO!!! Fascism Anyone?? Check out #11
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.ht...


<snip>

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the peoples attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choicerelentless propaganda and disinformationwere usually effective. Often the regimes would incite spontaneous acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and terrorists. Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting national security, and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elites behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the godless. A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of have-not citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. Normal and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or traitors was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not.

<snip>

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  -Why the disdain for math, science, numbers, quantitative statements, and cold logic? howard112211  Dec-27-10 06:10 AM   #0 
  - Anti-intellectualism  trotsky   Dec-27-10 06:16 AM   #1 
  - exactly... are society tends to treat intellects the same way  ixion   Dec-27-10 06:36 AM   #5 
  - And the most frustrating part is the cycle feeds itself.  trotsky   Dec-27-10 06:43 AM   #6 
  - Is this why it seems like no one cares about the things I have learned  Maraya1969   Dec-27-10 01:59 PM   #60 
  - Perhaps they're trying to tell you something  Cronus Protagonist   Dec-27-10 03:03 PM   #79 
  - No because if I talk about stupid shit and gossip and such there is no problem  Maraya1969   Dec-27-10 03:58 PM   #97 
  - Sounds like you just have more class and intelligence than they have.  BlueJazz   Dec-27-10 05:10 PM   #118 
  - Here's a Source for You  Demeter   Dec-28-10 05:46 AM   #191 
  - There is somethiong wrong with them - They see through the Emperors New Clothes  Grinchie   Dec-27-10 03:33 PM   #89 
  - In essence, they are. This leeway costs. And so we are allowed to push boundaries  WingDinger   Dec-27-10 05:25 PM   #125 
  - I don't know any anti-intellectuals  pintobean   Dec-27-10 06:53 AM   #10 
  - Thank you for illustrating the point. n/t  trotsky   Dec-27-10 06:54 AM   #12 
  - Ditto  pintobean   Dec-27-10 06:57 AM   #15 
  - LOL  trotsky   Dec-27-10 07:00 AM   #16 
  - +1  amyrose2712   Dec-27-10 08:38 AM   #40 
  - I know at least a couple of clueless and uneducated pompous assess..  Fumesucker   Dec-27-10 07:17 AM   #25 
  - I agree  pintobean   Dec-27-10 07:30 AM   #29 
  - It looks like "Idiocracy" is spot on:  xocet   Dec-27-10 10:27 AM   #47 
  - I view it as a documentary.  WCGreen   Dec-27-10 02:33 PM   #70 
  - Sadly, you're correct. nt  valerief   Dec-27-10 02:35 PM   #71 
  - a couple i know decided to have children AFTER seeing that film  reggie the dog   Dec-27-10 04:31 PM   #106 
  - Jeez, not too narcissistic are they?  Hello_Kitty   Dec-27-10 07:30 PM   #133 
     - they dont act like their kid is better  reggie the dog   Dec-29-10 01:44 PM   #217 
  - There is a problem with that thesis (though I enjoyed the movie)  bhikkhu   Dec-27-10 10:00 PM   #163 
  - that's usually the view of the underintelligent  mkultra   Dec-27-10 02:39 PM   #73 
  - It has nothing to do with intelligence  pintobean   Dec-27-10 03:22 PM   #87 
     - and everything to do with mutual respect.  AlbertCat   Dec-27-10 10:47 PM   #171 
     - Mutual respect? Like "jocks" show to "non-jocks"? That kind of respect?  SharonAnn   Dec-29-10 12:20 AM   #215 
     - Respect for someone's knowledge and experience...  trotsky   Dec-28-10 06:32 AM   #192 
        - Your error is thinking you're somehow special  pintobean   Dec-28-10 09:33 PM   #210 
           - And your error is in assuming I think I am.  trotsky   Dec-29-10 06:12 AM   #216 
  - That's because book-learning and common sense  Patchuli   Dec-27-10 03:03 PM   #80 
  - And common sense is no substitute for  Marr   Dec-27-10 03:20 PM   #85 
  - Common sense isn't common  Lordquinton   Dec-27-10 06:09 PM   #128 
  - Hmmph.  kenfrequed   Dec-27-10 08:34 PM   #147 
  - Oh, the sweet taste of irony.  blackspade   Dec-27-10 09:45 PM   #162 
  - You don't know ANY anti-intellectuals? Really???  Warren DeMontague   Dec-30-10 02:44 PM   #227 
  - Because of math? Let's hear all the calls here for Shakespeare, shall we?  WinkyDink   Dec-27-10 07:05 AM   #18 
  - I firmly believe exposure to and understanding of Shakespeare should be a requirement  Codeine   Dec-27-10 04:55 PM   #112 
     - Indeed. Cultural literacy is important too...  Lucky Luciano   Dec-27-10 08:49 PM   #150 
     - You might find yourself enjoying it, now that you don't "have" to read it.  gkhouston   Dec-28-10 01:14 AM   #184 
     - I firmly believe exposure to and understanding of Shakespeare should be a requirement  AlbertCat   Dec-27-10 10:45 PM   #168 
  - Know what'll cure that? Acupuncture and a healthy overdose of vitamin D  Orrex   Dec-27-10 07:35 AM   #32 
  - Absolutely....  MicaelS   Dec-27-10 03:09 PM   #81 
  - UFO???  reggie the dog   Dec-27-10 04:34 PM   #107 
  - Anti-intellectualism despises literacy, ideas, and thinking  LWolf   Dec-27-10 04:46 PM   #108 
  - Damn Skippy! Nt  MrScorpio   Dec-27-10 04:48 PM   #109 
  - Absolutely... Something people can't or won't understand & they don't think we should either  NotThisTime   Dec-27-10 05:02 PM   #115 
  - Because thinking hurts the brain.  hobbit709   Dec-27-10 06:19 AM   #2 
  - It makes so-called "average" people uncomfortable.  Dulcinea   Dec-27-10 06:21 AM   #3 
  - "Math is hard"..  Fumesucker   Dec-27-10 06:22 AM   #4 
  - So is oak  pintobean   Dec-27-10 06:44 AM   #7 
  - Interesting. Is that why students would rather take it than literature courses?  WinkyDink   Dec-27-10 07:07 AM   #20 
     - Who said anything about literature courses being easy?  Fumesucker   Dec-27-10 07:13 AM   #23 
     - While I don't support eliminating algebra, you also have to realize  Kalyke   Dec-27-10 11:18 AM   #50 
     - If you did the problem incorrectly, then you may have arrived at  Marr   Dec-27-10 03:26 PM   #88 
     - taking a different approach isn't necessarily doing it incorrectly  fishwax   Dec-27-10 07:51 PM   #140 
        - This is true, but getting the right answer for the wrong reason should get marked totally wrong.  Lucky Luciano   Dec-27-10 08:52 PM   #151 
           - I like your idea about double credit  fishwax   Dec-27-10 09:22 PM   #155 
           - I've known professors who do that, actually. n/t  gkhouston   Dec-28-10 01:10 AM   #183 
           - It happened more than once, so, I can say that it was not the wrong reason.  Kalyke   Dec-28-10 09:35 PM   #211 
     - Actually I do recognize that everyone doesn't think the same..  Fumesucker   Dec-27-10 06:35 PM   #130 
     - I like that math has one commonly accepted answer  Confusious   Dec-27-10 07:47 PM   #138 
     - Maths teaching that assumes that there is always only one correct solution method...  LeftishBrit   Dec-28-10 11:52 AM   #199 
     - It's not that literature is easy; far from it. It's that math-oriented people often scorn its study  WinkyDink   Dec-27-10 08:36 PM   #149 
        - Formulas to memorize?!?  Lucky Luciano   Dec-27-10 08:55 PM   #152 
     - Given the choice of a course with an infinite number of correct answers  lumberjack_jeff   Dec-27-10 10:17 AM   #45 
  - Because they're devices that can be used to invalidate their wild ravings.  no_hypocrisy   Dec-27-10 06:48 AM   #8 
  - Logic in its original meaning was "the ability to demonstrate or refute a claim"  earcandle   Dec-27-10 02:10 PM   #61 
  - Mike Rowe (Dirty JObs) interview here.. some points he makes are very valid  SoCalDem   Dec-27-10 06:48 AM   #9 
  - That's a great show.  trotsky   Dec-27-10 06:53 AM   #11 
  - exactly.. see how long you'll last on a jobsite  SoCalDem   Dec-27-10 06:56 AM   #14 
  - As a professional cook  pipoman   Dec-27-10 07:56 AM   #35 
     - lol  justabob   Dec-27-10 02:47 PM   #74 
  - I love it, too!  Dappleganger   Dec-27-10 02:20 PM   #67 
  - I have never, NEVER IN MY LIFE, met a stupid farmer. Not a single one.  AtheistCrusader   Dec-27-10 05:05 PM   #117 
     - Someone from Iowa once said on another listserv that in the old days  eridani   Dec-28-10 01:00 AM   #181 
  - Kudos to Mike Rowe, he has hit the proverbial nail on the head..  Fumesucker   Dec-27-10 06:55 AM   #13 
  - Doing a job well is an art form  Confusious   Dec-27-10 07:51 PM   #139 
  - +1 n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Dec-27-10 10:19 AM   #46 
  - I believe the redefining of hard work started during the Reagan  MadMaddie   Dec-27-10 12:26 PM   #57 
  - Facts are stupid things  MNBrewer   Dec-27-10 05:19 PM   #123 
  - My grandfather was brilliant at math and pretty well read for his time -- and was a farmer  JDPriestly   Dec-27-10 02:58 PM   #77 
     - That doesn't suprise me, farming is actually very math-intensive  Odin2005   Dec-27-10 04:24 PM   #105 
        - And a dirty-hands job like no other.  JDPriestly   Dec-28-10 02:04 PM   #204 
  - Your premise is completely wrong. The other OP said one law REQUIRED algebra to GRADUATE. There is a  WinkyDink   Dec-27-10 07:04 AM   #17 
  - I was looking at individual posts of the thread, rather than just the OP.  howard112211   Dec-27-10 07:06 AM   #19 
  - Where is science denigrated? If that was done, it was ignorant.  WinkyDink   Dec-27-10 07:09 AM   #21 
  - Well...  howard112211   Dec-27-10 07:27 AM   #27 
     - There is such a thing as qualitative science, often known as Naturalistic Observation, but also  patrice   Dec-30-10 03:35 PM   #229 
  - Not a single person on that thread did what you accuse  Hello_Kitty   Dec-27-10 05:14 PM   #120 
  - Thank you.  Lionel Mandrake   Dec-27-10 05:23 PM   #124 
  - Some of us DID realize it wasn't you making the accusations  GoCubsGo   Dec-28-10 06:49 AM   #194 
  - And apparently there is a problem with MINIMUM graduation requirements.  nadinbrzezinski   Dec-27-10 09:28 PM   #157 
  - self delete  Sheepshank   Dec-28-10 12:08 PM   #200 
  - "it is not practical in everyday life" Large amounts of time  retread   Dec-27-10 07:11 AM   #22 
  - Logic is too harsh for some. They would rather rely on magical thinking.  dkf   Dec-27-10 07:16 AM   #24 
  - I didn't realize how true that was until just recently  NNN0LHI   Dec-27-10 07:33 AM   #31 
  - I don't want to see kids pushed to excel in areas where their abilities and interests are lower  Still a Democrat   Dec-27-10 07:22 AM   #26 
  - I agree. Requiring Geometry and Algebra for high school  pnwmom   Dec-27-10 03:49 PM   #95 
  - Teaching students that practical application makes something important  HereSince1628   Dec-27-10 07:28 AM   #28 
  - yep  Swamp Rat   Dec-27-10 11:56 PM   #177 
  - I'm OK with it = More Money for Me  FreakinDJ   Dec-27-10 07:31 AM   #30 
  - the health forum has been revealing your topic matter for a long time as it pertains to the left. nt  xchrom   Dec-27-10 07:39 AM   #33 
  - I have to say that I believe the nature of science + media  pipoman   Dec-27-10 07:40 AM   #34 
  - Don't equate science journalism with scientific journals. (nt)  Posteritatis   Dec-27-10 09:45 AM   #41 
     - Just one example would be New England Journal of Medicine  pipoman   Dec-27-10 10:11 AM   #43 
        - Almost invariably they do it wrong  Recursion   Dec-27-10 12:11 PM   #53 
           - Yep, exactly my point  pipoman   Dec-27-10 08:18 PM   #143 
  - If they didn't denigrate it than they would feel stupid  Taitertots   Dec-27-10 08:09 AM   #36 
  - This.  Codeine   Dec-27-10 04:53 PM   #111 
  - I must have missed the anti-algebra thread ...  surrealAmerican   Dec-27-10 08:12 AM   #37 
  - Here it is. Link in message block  Obamanaut   Dec-27-10 12:20 PM   #55 
  - hell, algebra helps drug dealers too  reggie the dog   Dec-27-10 04:48 PM   #110 
  - If you don't know math  notesdev   Dec-27-10 08:27 AM   #38 
  - Without Algebra, The Banks Would Rob You Even More  Yavin4   Dec-27-10 08:30 AM   #39 
  - Science and math explain the natural universe. The arts connect us with the preternatural. There are  jody   Dec-27-10 09:59 AM   #42 
  - Self esteem. If I don't know how to do it, it must be easy.  lumberjack_jeff   Dec-27-10 10:13 AM   #44 
  - Don't mean to lower the intellectual level...  Bigmack   Dec-27-10 10:32 AM   #48 
  - "How could those two things be equivalent?"  hfojvt   Dec-27-10 10:33 AM   #49 
  - Because it's easier and more satisfying to "make up" answers  ladjf   Dec-27-10 11:52 AM   #51 
  - The great ancient geometer Euclid was teaching a child math  Recursion   Dec-27-10 12:07 PM   #52 
  - Here is the reason in a nutshell  stevenleser   Dec-27-10 12:15 PM   #54 
  - In a nutshell: Lazy  Gman   Dec-27-10 02:15 PM   #65 
  - You're talking about one tv show...  lunatica   Dec-27-10 12:26 PM   #56 
  - Thirty+ years later, still value my Algebra I class  SouthernLiberal   Dec-27-10 12:44 PM   #58 
  - I found your reply surprising.  ieoeja   Dec-27-10 03:38 PM   #91 
  - As a fellow programmer I have noticed all the programmers are forgetting  Imperialism Inc.   Dec-27-10 03:48 PM   #94 
  - I grew up in the post-Sputnik era. We all learned algebra.  mainer   Dec-27-10 12:47 PM   #59 
  - We need both math and english grammar skills, not one or the other.  earcandle   Dec-27-10 02:10 PM   #62 
  - Best reply so far. nt  eppur_se_muova   Dec-27-10 03:57 PM   #96 
  - Stupid people are easier to control. They learned that lesson a long time ago.  fatbuckel   Dec-27-10 02:11 PM   #63 
  - Just people that are too lazy to learn it and are making excuses for it  Gman   Dec-27-10 02:14 PM   #64 
  - because if the people understood math better they might be dangerous?  Hannah Bell   Dec-27-10 02:15 PM   #66 
  - I'm an advocate of requiring hard subjects in high school because  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-27-10 02:31 PM   #68 
  - The habit of thinking.  EFerrari   Dec-27-10 03:19 PM   #84 
     - I like the way you put that.  Codeine   Dec-27-10 05:00 PM   #113 
        - I actually look for things that are challenging for my kid because I'm concerned  gkhouston   Dec-27-10 08:13 PM   #141 
  - Stupid people support stupid causes. Critical thinkers can detect the BS.  valerief   Dec-27-10 02:33 PM   #69 
  - I basically agree with you mostly, but to be fair, that thread did not call for the elimination  GOPBasher   Dec-27-10 02:37 PM   #72 
  - It's our culture  onlyadream   Dec-27-10 02:48 PM   #75 
  - Maybe because writers aren't always good at math.  jobycom   Dec-27-10 02:53 PM   #76 
  - It's funny, though, because the hard sciences are full of great figures  EFerrari   Dec-27-10 03:15 PM   #83 
  - It's Palinism  dballance   Dec-27-10 03:03 PM   #78 
  - because people are intellectually lazy, i guess  pitohui   Dec-27-10 03:10 PM   #82 
  - you can't work in the social sciences these days without math.  provis99   Dec-27-10 03:22 PM   #86 
  - I think that for the most part, we minimize those things we don't understand.  LanternWaste   Dec-27-10 03:35 PM   #90 
  - Algebra is the mathematical quest for equality!  DailyGrind51   Dec-27-10 03:39 PM   #92 
  - I think people may be overreacting to the imbalance that occurs  pnwmom   Dec-27-10 03:45 PM   #93 
  - Poetry trumps science, as it is easier to manipulate  savannah43   Dec-27-10 04:07 PM   #98 
  - There is "poetry" and then there is poetry. True poetry does not manipulate:  patrice   Dec-28-10 01:40 AM   #186 
  - Know-nothings detest intellectuals -- that's pretty much where we are with rise of right ...  defendandprotect   Dec-27-10 04:11 PM   #99 
  - Plenty of it on the Left as well.  Codeine   Dec-27-10 05:02 PM   #114 
     - We "bombed the moon" .... ???  defendandprotect   Dec-27-10 10:06 PM   #164 
  - The reason is the upcoming relativism.  DetlefK   Dec-27-10 04:12 PM   #100 
  - rock and...  Duppers   Dec-28-10 08:58 PM   #205 
  - I've had conversations about the  femrap   Dec-27-10 04:13 PM   #101 
  - Hey your friends need to eat too.  Lucky Luciano   Dec-27-10 09:03 PM   #153 
  - Yes, I agree.....fuck the people,  femrap   Dec-27-10 10:09 PM   #166 
     - I guess they should share the sacrifice and be a typical outsourced IT person?  Lucky Luciano   Dec-27-10 10:30 PM   #167 
  - 'shit list' .....  Duppers   Dec-28-10 09:04 PM   #206 
  - There has been a tendency by artsy-type left-wingers to demonize the technical and logical.  Odin2005   Dec-27-10 04:14 PM   #102 
  - I detect the reverse in your post.  WinkyDink   Dec-27-10 08:35 PM   #148 
     - You haven't run into those kind of people? They are a bunch of them at my university.  Odin2005   Dec-27-10 09:31 PM   #159 
  - Why?..How can you elect the Palins of the world with a population that can think?  RagAss   Dec-27-10 04:18 PM   #103 
  - "a guy who basically did nothing but write poetry"  Prometheus Bound   Dec-27-10 04:22 PM   #104 
  - +1000  patrick t. cakes   Dec-27-10 11:54 PM   #176 
  - The underlying issue in that thread is not about mathematics.  LWolf   Dec-27-10 05:02 PM   #116 
  - Also, if you don't learn algebra in HS there are opportunities to learn it later  Hello_Kitty   Dec-27-10 05:18 PM   #122 
     - I think my gripe was that...  sofa king   Dec-27-10 05:49 PM   #127 
     - My problem is that people would rather more kids drop out of school  Hello_Kitty   Dec-27-10 06:11 PM   #129 
     - In my school Algebra was a required course in 7th and 8th grade.  Odin2005   Dec-27-10 09:44 PM   #161 
     - But people ARE dropping out because of the algebra requirement.  Hello_Kitty   Dec-27-10 10:46 PM   #169 
     - That's one of the strengths of the American system, imo.  LWolf   Dec-28-10 10:49 AM   #198 
  - Why are you being dishonest about the other OP?  Hello_Kitty   Dec-27-10 05:13 PM   #119 
  - Ironic for an OP championing "cold logic," no?  WildEyedLiberal   Dec-27-10 07:37 PM   #136 
  - I like Arthur C. Clarke's observation.  sofa king   Dec-27-10 05:17 PM   #121 
  - And even with that peer review, it's still only a probability, perhaps a STRONG one, but a  patrice   Dec-30-10 02:24 PM   #222 
  - Fox News  Turbineguy   Dec-27-10 05:28 PM   #126 
  - Why is it necessary to point out false dichotomies so often? Reality does not exclude quantitative  patrice   Dec-27-10 07:01 PM   #131 
  - The first group the Nazis went after were intellectuals and artists.  MedicalAdmin   Dec-27-10 07:02 PM   #132 
  - BNGO!!! Fascism Anyone?? Check out #11  BrklynLiberal   Dec-27-10 07:34 PM   #135 
  - Actually the intellectuals sat on their asses while the Nazis purged everyone else  NNN0LHI   Dec-28-10 06:48 AM   #193 
  - Willful ignorance .... the new religion.  BrklynLiberal   Dec-27-10 07:31 PM   #134 
  - I use algebra DAILY to calculate drug amounts for premature infants  AllyCat   Dec-27-10 07:43 PM   #137 
  - "Well, it all starts when a nulicule comes out of its nest...."  Kurovski   Dec-27-10 08:17 PM   #142 
  - The Left and the Right.  bluestate10   Dec-27-10 08:29 PM   #144 
  - Cursive writing  kenfrequed   Dec-27-10 08:29 PM   #145 
  - I find it quite insulting  Libertas1776   Dec-27-10 08:31 PM   #146 
  - I posted above that people with Dyscalculia should be exempt from the requirement.  Odin2005   Dec-28-10 09:13 PM   #207 
  - Not everyone is wired for math.  Throd   Dec-27-10 09:12 PM   #154 
  - Few people are wired for ANY subject.  bluestate10   Dec-27-10 09:40 PM   #160 
     - Exactly  bhikkhu   Dec-28-10 12:27 AM   #180 
  - Subjects like algebra and logic teach people how to think.  Marr   Dec-27-10 09:27 PM   #156 
  - Ant-intellectualism  nadinbrzezinski   Dec-27-10 09:30 PM   #158 
  - Okay, the algebra stuff is way crazy town. Algebra teaches outside of "math".  TheKentuckian   Dec-27-10 10:08 PM   #165 
  - Pff, looks like we got ourselves a reader  HEyHEY   Dec-27-10 10:46 PM   #170 
  - Should we drag 'em off an' read him chapter an verse, Vern?  Kurovski   Dec-27-10 11:13 PM   #172 
     - Ah yes the "gut" feeling, let's bring it back to caveman instinct!  HEyHEY   Dec-27-10 11:33 PM   #174 
        - Now you're talkin', buddy!  Kurovski   Dec-27-10 11:39 PM   #175 
  - The Decline of the West, Oswald Spengler (1918 & 1923)  mckara   Dec-27-10 11:14 PM   #173 
  - It allows our would be overlords to get away with their lies.  diane in sf   Dec-28-10 12:01 AM   #178 
  - Believing in virgin births doesn't help matters much, either.  Kurovski   Dec-28-10 12:12 AM   #179 
  - Think algebra's not practical in everyday life? Two words: compound interest.  caseymoz   Dec-28-10 01:03 AM   #182 
  - It's not just math under threat...  JCMach1   Dec-28-10 01:33 AM   #185 
  - The tread above says 65 BILLION Dollars is unaccounted for in Afghanistan  Mojeoux   Dec-28-10 01:42 AM   #187 
  - Is there no intrinsic value in knowing anything in and of itself? Only value acquired from income  patrice   Dec-28-10 01:43 AM   #188 
  - Thank You!!  retread   Dec-28-10 07:51 AM   #196 
  - Amazing how common that assumption is, isn't it? I must be a frakking dinosaur.  patrice   Dec-28-10 01:42 PM   #202 
  - Interesting use of the word "value" then.  caseymoz   Dec-28-10 09:38 AM   #197 
  - Value of some sort is part of what constitutes the "importance" to which OP refers. And  patrice   Dec-28-10 01:40 PM   #201 
  - Sorry, I have trouble understanding you.  caseymoz   Dec-29-10 12:00 AM   #214 
     - Please see #223 below  patrice   Dec-30-10 02:31 PM   #224 
  - It could be any of the derivative values that you cite and/or it could be an intrinsic value.  patrice   Dec-30-10 01:59 PM   #219 
  - Thomas R. Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions  patrice   Dec-30-10 02:28 PM   #223 
  - I truly DESPISE that attitude. It's a legacy of Calvinism.  Odin2005   Dec-28-10 09:19 PM   #208 
     - Honest Rationalism would recognize the NECESSITY of qualifying such a  patrice   Dec-30-10 01:22 PM   #218 
     - BTW, I pretty much DESPISE it too! nt  patrice   Dec-30-10 02:09 PM   #221 
  - I don't want to get rid of it.  Lucian   Dec-28-10 01:50 AM   #189 
  - truly not being able to do math is a learning disability, discalculia, and should allow exemption...  Odin2005   Dec-28-10 09:22 PM   #209 
  - I have to respond to this, even though I'm mostly a lurker.  prete_nero   Dec-28-10 03:16 AM   #190 
  - At least you TRIED to do it, and that's the whole point.  GoCubsGo   Dec-28-10 07:05 AM   #195 
  - Yep! Give anyone the answer book and s/he can "teach"!  patrice   Dec-28-10 01:45 PM   #203 
  - As someone in the natural sciences  XemaSab   Dec-28-10 09:48 PM   #212 
  - Where I live, people think any plural ends in 's n/t  kittykitty   Dec-28-10 10:26 PM   #213 
     - And if you say anything about it they say, "Well, we know what is meant, so it doesn't matter."  patrice   Dec-30-10 02:04 PM   #220 
  - It`s easier to control stupid people.  fatbuckel   Dec-30-10 02:41 PM   #225 
  - When it comes to Education, I think the issues you raise are best addressed by Paulo Freire  patrice   Dec-30-10 02:42 PM   #226 
  - It's less work to believe that the earth is flat, the night sky is papier mache with pin holes  Warren DeMontague   Dec-30-10 02:46 PM   #228 
 

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