howard112211
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Sat Mar-26-11 08:00 AM
Response to Original message |
| 143. Other: It doesn't matter. Superpowers do what the hell they want anyway. |
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Whether it is legal or not depends on which lawyer you ask. But at the end of the day, this is an academic exercise because obviously "might makes right".
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| -Is the war in Libya legal? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 02:38 PM |
#0 |
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why such obvious negative bias for choice #4? unrec'd just for that. |
inna |
Mar-25-11 02:40 PM |
#1 |
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I called for it to happen, applaud it, and consider it legal. |
damntexdem |
Mar-25-11 02:48 PM |
#9 |
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I am only guessing here, but I think option #4 is for pacifists. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Mar-25-11 02:52 PM |
#13 |
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Not for us. Only Congress should declare war |
Cleita |
Mar-25-11 02:41 PM |
#2 |
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On the other hand, the part of the legislative branch that ratifies treaties... |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 02:44 PM |
#6 |
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Wow! A bit perturbed aren't you? |
Cleita |
Mar-25-11 03:00 PM |
#16 |
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nor did the Senate need to pass a resolution calling for a no fly zone over Libya |
Motown_Johnny |
Mar-25-11 03:33 PM |
#27 |
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Ratification of the UN treaty did not alter the enumerated powers of the legislature. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 04:07 PM |
#37 |
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Where have you been the 50+ years the UN has been around? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:10 PM |
#41 |
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Legitimate...? |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 04:29 PM |
#49 |
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Those founding principles included considering black dudes 3/5 of whites. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:32 PM |
#52 |
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That was not a founding principle. This IS the founding principle. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 04:36 PM |
#55 |
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"all men are created equal" And what about women? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:41 PM |
#60 |
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You will have to forgive the framers for not agonizing over questions of |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 05:05 PM |
#82 |
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Oh, so sorry. So that's why women couldn't vote? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:09 PM |
#87 |
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They didn't consider slaves or women people. Only white men. n/t |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:19 PM |
#96 |
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...and your point is...? |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 05:29 PM |
#108 |
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1. These are not the kind of people we should idolize. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:42 PM |
#117 |
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I don't idolize or follow men, I follow ideas. Having said that, as a political group, |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 06:14 PM |
#129 |
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So you seem to be ok with Bush's notion that the Constitution is only |
TorchTheWitch |
Mar-25-11 07:08 PM |
#138 |
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You are not interested in the rule of law. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 08:07 PM |
#140 |
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Obama has 45 days to get Congress to declare war |
walldude |
Mar-25-11 02:48 PM |
#8 |
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where did you get that from? |
Motown_Johnny |
Mar-25-11 03:31 PM |
#26 |
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And where does it say that in the US Constitution? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 03:53 PM |
#33 |
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Was Libya a threat to the international peace on March 16, 2011? |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 02:42 PM |
#3 |
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x2 |
Lucinda |
Mar-25-11 04:22 PM |
#47 |
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I'll go ahead and Rec it then. |
Quantess |
Mar-25-11 02:42 PM |
#4 |
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When the US is in volved it's legal........... |
BlueJac |
Mar-25-11 02:43 PM |
#5 |
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Depends on who you ask |
The2ndWheel |
Mar-25-11 02:46 PM |
#7 |
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Has any war we been in the last 60 plus years been legal? n/t |
doc03 |
Mar-25-11 02:48 PM |
#10 |
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No |
Cali_Democrat |
Mar-25-11 02:49 PM |
#11 |
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How is it illegal? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 02:50 PM |
#12 |
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How would you characterize the situation in Libya prior to UN S/Res 1973? |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 02:53 PM |
#14 |
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I'LL *risk* a Rwanda '2'. |
Amonester |
Mar-25-11 03:16 PM |
#19 |
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It was a genocide? |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 03:20 PM |
#21 |
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Go ahead, put a tag on human beings. |
Amonester |
Mar-25-11 03:26 PM |
#22 |
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Well, ok then |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 03:28 PM |
#23 |
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another question? |
Amonester |
Mar-25-11 03:30 PM |
#25 |
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And by the way, comparing Libya to Rwanda seriously devalues the hundreds of thousands who died |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 03:29 PM |
#24 |
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So what you're saying is like, well, thousands died there, so what? |
Amonester |
Mar-25-11 06:30 PM |
#134 |
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It was not a genocide, it would have been and was becoming quickly a MASSACRE! |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 03:56 PM |
#34 |
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There is a defined legal framework under which the Security Council can invoke Chapter VII |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:18 PM |
#45 |
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Now we love war! |
BlueJac |
Mar-25-11 02:59 PM |
#15 |
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Didn't you hear? |
moparlunatic |
Mar-25-11 03:09 PM |
#17 |
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we love saving innocent lives ! |
Motown_Johnny |
Mar-25-11 03:33 PM |
#28 |
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No, we don't |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 03:42 PM |
#30 |
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Other: Doesn't matter -- we're there, and if it turns out to be illegal, nothing will |
gateley |
Mar-25-11 03:11 PM |
#18 |
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Here's a link to a great discussion by legal experts |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 04:51 PM |
#71 |
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Thanks! nt |
gateley |
Mar-25-11 05:08 PM |
#86 |
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No. But it will be when Gadhaffi invades Poland. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Mar-25-11 03:19 PM |
#20 |
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why not ask people to read the War Powers Act before answering? |
Motown_Johnny |
Mar-25-11 03:37 PM |
#29 |
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War Powers Act has nothing to do with it |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 03:42 PM |
#31 |
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And where in the US Constitution does it give the President the power to do this? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:06 PM |
#36 |
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The only court the Constitution authorizes is the Supreme Court |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:10 PM |
#42 |
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It's called the War Power Resolution, and it's bad idea to delegate like that. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:12 PM |
#43 |
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Whether it is a good or bad idea is irrelevant, it is a Constitutional delegation |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:15 PM |
#44 |
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And where does it say in the US Constitution that the Congress may delegate its powers? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:19 PM |
#46 |
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SCOTUS decided that |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:22 PM |
#48 |
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And where does the SCOTUS get off doing that? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:30 PM |
#50 |
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SCOTUS consistently holds delegation and separation of powers...well, separate |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:34 PM |
#54 |
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As far as SCOTUS having the power to approve of delegation...they just flat out stole that one |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:38 PM |
#57 |
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What in the world are you talking about? |
Xithras |
Mar-25-11 05:20 PM |
#97 |
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Precisely. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:26 PM |
#103 |
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You are correct, of course. I misspoke. |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 05:30 PM |
#109 |
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as legal as bushes wars are. nt |
wildbilln864 |
Mar-25-11 03:43 PM |
#32 |
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Rather have the UN authorizing military action than the US congress which rarely say "NO". |
pampango |
Mar-25-11 04:03 PM |
#35 |
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I couldn't agree more. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:08 PM |
#38 |
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Either way, it is immoral and unjust. |
David__77 |
Mar-25-11 04:09 PM |
#39 |
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Maybe another major crisis will bring the world's people in line? |
sad sally |
Mar-25-11 04:30 PM |
#51 |
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Ugh Rockefeller. |
David__77 |
Mar-25-11 04:36 PM |
#56 |
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its invasion and WWIII |
lovuian |
Mar-25-11 04:09 PM |
#40 |
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The UN's no-fly zone is legal. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 04:33 PM |
#53 |
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So The UN Snaps Its FIngers, and the US Jumps? |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 04:40 PM |
#58 |
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I think it's the other way around. The U.S. Senate requested the NFZ and the UN jumped. n/t |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 04:41 PM |
#61 |
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So The UN Really Is A US Puppet? |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 04:45 PM |
#64 |
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The protesters in Libya requested the UN to impose the NFZ first. n/t |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 04:46 PM |
#67 |
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Ooops, don't tell them the truth. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:47 PM |
#68 |
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So We Are Engaged In An Illegal War Because |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 04:49 PM |
#70 |
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Protester council asked for help before Senate passed resolution... |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:53 PM |
#73 |
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Russia And China Are Part of The UN |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 04:57 PM |
#76 |
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All of the countries you cite have terrible human rights records for their own people... |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:08 PM |
#85 |
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And The US Has A Wonderful Human RIghts Record? |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:17 PM |
#95 |
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Yeah, we summarily execute people for adultery, disappear journalists... |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:24 PM |
#100 |
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+1,000,000,000 |
N_E_1 for Tennis |
Mar-25-11 05:45 PM |
#119 |
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The US surely could have told the UN that, but didn't. |
Amonester |
Mar-25-11 06:01 PM |
#126 |
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The UN is emposing the NFZ because .... |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 04:57 PM |
#75 |
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So The US Really Wanted War? |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:02 PM |
#79 |
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Don't be ridiculous... |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:05 PM |
#81 |
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No One Wants War? |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:11 PM |
#89 |
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So ,you would just let the people of Benghazi die. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:13 PM |
#91 |
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The US Is NOT The World's Policeman |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:22 PM |
#98 |
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No matter how much you'd like to see those other things done.... |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:26 PM |
#104 |
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You did not answer the question. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:28 PM |
#106 |
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How Many People Would You Have Let Saddam Kill? |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:33 PM |
#111 |
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What about Darfur? |
N_E_1 for Tennis |
Mar-25-11 06:02 PM |
#127 |
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So, you wanted Gaddafi to go into Benghazi and massacre the people of Benghazi? |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:07 PM |
#83 |
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How Many Hungry American Children Do You Want To Starve? |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:25 PM |
#101 |
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In turn, I'd say the same to you. The price of oil will rise because of such a conflicted nation... |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:28 PM |
#107 |
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So It Is All About The Oil |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:35 PM |
#114 |
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Do you drive a car? |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:46 PM |
#120 |
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Going into Libya to protect the 670,000 people of Benghazi was NOT about oil. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 06:22 PM |
#132 |
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You did not answer my question. How many dead Benghazians are okay with you? |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:39 PM |
#115 |
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I Like The People of Africa |
zorahopkins |
Mar-25-11 05:44 PM |
#118 |
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Have the people of Saudi Arabia asked the UN for intervention? |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:49 PM |
#122 |
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If someone launched a couple hundred cruise missiles into the United States |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 04:40 PM |
#59 |
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And what would you call it if our government slaughtered thousands of Americans... |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:43 PM |
#63 |
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I believe the last time that happened, the called it a civil war. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 04:46 PM |
#66 |
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And then again, when you look at our "Revolution" it met the textbook defnition of civil war as well |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:48 PM |
#69 |
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Indeed, and the Tories are still the conservatives. But there is no longer |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 04:55 PM |
#74 |
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They are .. |
N_E_1 for Tennis |
Mar-25-11 06:12 PM |
#128 |
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You are overlooking the fact that ..... |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 04:45 PM |
#65 |
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Is the same UN that appointed Libya to the Human Rights Council? |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 05:02 PM |
#80 |
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Please answer this question (no one else will) |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:42 PM |
#62 |
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This would be the textbook situation of why the UN even exists. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 04:52 PM |
#72 |
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But it is just about Libya |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 04:59 PM |
#77 |
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It is an important question and it has not been answered. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 05:13 PM |
#90 |
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There is no way ever that the GOP will have a rational contemplation and debate. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:15 PM |
#93 |
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Neither has this council of appointed and unaccountable gangsters. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 05:27 PM |
#105 |
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The actions of Libya are in that context, there is no need to do anything in other nations, yet. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:17 PM |
#94 |
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Yes, I agree. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:01 PM |
#78 |
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You are arguing for preemptive war by the UN |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 05:07 PM |
#84 |
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It is not preemptive war. It is a NFZ that is being implemented to protect Libyans. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:09 PM |
#88 |
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That sort of logic could lead one to believe that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 05:35 PM |
#113 |
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This has come to a point where you have pushed it so far a FUCK YOU is in order. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:48 PM |
#121 |
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Actually, it was said with tongue planted firmly in cheek. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 06:20 PM |
#131 |
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You comment is almost too ridiculous to respond to. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:55 PM |
#124 |
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A preemptive war is one where you are not responding to agressive actions. |
originalpckelly |
Mar-25-11 05:13 PM |
#92 |
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In that case, the answer to your original question is no. |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 05:25 PM |
#102 |
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War is wrong even when a piece of paper says it's fine. Please don't respond with sob stories. nt |
Modern_Matthew |
Mar-25-11 05:23 PM |
#99 |
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It would be wrong to allow Gaddafi to massacre the men, women, and children in Benghazi. |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 05:32 PM |
#110 |
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You're reframing the question |
MrCoffee |
Mar-25-11 05:33 PM |
#112 |
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That would depend on what sort of people they are. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 05:41 PM |
#116 |
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"What sort of people they are", |
N_E_1 for Tennis |
Mar-25-11 06:29 PM |
#133 |
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You should be more frightened by the nature of your undefined hierarchy of values. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 06:41 PM |
#136 |
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Oh, please explain |
N_E_1 for Tennis |
Mar-25-11 07:08 PM |
#137 |
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The hierarchy of values which holds that Americans are not obligated to sacrifice |
fittosurvive |
Mar-25-11 08:04 PM |
#139 |
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Fear factor then, |
N_E_1 for Tennis |
Mar-25-11 08:35 PM |
#141 |
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I have no idea what it is that you are saying. |
fittosurvive |
Mar-26-11 07:56 AM |
#142 |
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Dangerous Precedent |
Runework |
Mar-25-11 05:51 PM |
#123 |
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Go do some homework |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 06:00 PM |
#125 |
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Go read more carefully |
Runework |
Mar-25-11 06:19 PM |
#130 |
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I hate to say it but re Libya massacre, John McCain is getting the truth out on FoxNews |
Tx4obama |
Mar-25-11 06:39 PM |
#135 |
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Other: It doesn't matter. Superpowers do what the hell they want anyway. |
howard112211 |
Mar-26-11 08:00 AM |
#143 |
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