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havbrush Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
129. Not Hyperbolic Nonsense
Poor Vinnie from Indy still hasn't seen through the grade school, middle school and high school propaganda that's preached in America about how we are beacons of liberty and justice and stand for peace and democracy for all. It's really never been true (ask black Americans how they feel about their enslaved ancestors' liberty and justice). Or ask native Americans how they feel about peace, justice and treaty-breaking the bluecoats forcibly bought to them along with their reservation life. And then there are all these countries that we've been involved in war in over the last half century or so: Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, Lebanon, Grenada, Iraq, Panama, Colombia, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan again, and Iraq again. And that doesn't include our early military adventures like deposing the monarchy and taking over Hawaii in the late 1890s to back Samuel Dole's powerplay for expanding his pineapple plantations, and then the Teddy Roosevelt/Rough Rider excursion into Cuba (the battleship Maine was conveniently blown up in Havana's habor), which then led to the Spanish-American war which led to troops in the Philipines. We've also intervened in Haiti four times I believe, starting in the early decades of the 20th century on up to deposing Aristede most recently. Try reading "Overthrow" by Kinzer if you're still not convinced of out war mongering history. At some point you have to throw off the blinders, see through the propaganda and begin to understand that it's not about liberty or democracy, it's always about the money. Corporations in many industries that produce war materiels learned a long time ago that their profits can go up ten, twenty, even a thousand-fold when they produce things for war Look at Halliburton and their well known price-gouging. General Smedley Butler from as early as the 1930s, after finally getting wise, wrote about it in his book, "War is a Racket." Butler lays it out that even businesses as innocuous as shoe manufacturers, if they get government contracts for boots, can triple or quadruple their profits. And since we are a corporate-run country (we may as well face that fact now since it's so obvious with the Koch brothers having governors in their pockets and the middle class being decimated with job outsourcing by these very corporations), we are always going to be at war because that's where even money is. The spreading of democracy crap is just that, we've backed too many dictators (Saudi Arabia comes to mind) to espouse that convincingly with a straight face.
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  -Sometimes I think my German friends were right Taverner  Mar-22-11 01:51 PM   #0 
  - Agreed.  FiveGoodMen   Mar-22-11 01:52 PM   #1 
  - We create the terrorists that we then have to fight  Angry Dragon   Mar-22-11 01:55 PM   #2 
  - A very profitable one.  CrossChris   Mar-22-11 02:04 PM   #6 
  - Sure does keep the money flowing, though. nt  DCKit   Mar-22-11 02:04 PM   #8 
  - How true...  sad sally   Mar-23-11 01:34 PM   #125 
  - That is the very point  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 06:01 AM   #44 
  - Amen  Ricochet21   Mar-23-11 12:36 PM   #118 
  - No doubt-- we have sick people running this country  spooked911   Mar-22-11 01:58 PM   #3 
  - Rec'd n/t  Catherina   Mar-22-11 02:00 PM   #4 
  - Empire for the Few, the Proud, the Have-More Elite Sonsuvbitches.  Octafish   Mar-22-11 02:03 PM   #5 
  - Psst. And it's not our empire.  Solomon   Mar-23-11 07:36 AM   #63 
  - I was born during Viet Nam and I think it's safe to say that  alsame   Mar-22-11 02:04 PM   #7 
  - Yep - even during Carter we fought in El Salvador  Taverner   Mar-22-11 02:09 PM   #10 
  - Um, yeah...  a la izquierda   Mar-22-11 02:34 PM   #21 
  - Pretty much  Taverner   Mar-22-11 02:35 PM   #22 
  - Carter gave us -- er, I mean -- the Soviets, Afghanistan and the Mujahedin.  Octafish   Mar-22-11 03:38 PM   #31 
  - I suspect that these war decisions...  CoffeeCat   Mar-23-11 11:10 AM   #102 
  - I was born during WWII and I can safely say the same thing if we  jwirr   Mar-23-11 12:04 PM   #111 
  - We are a war-mongering country  hifiguy   Mar-22-11 02:07 PM   #9 
  - We've had a war going on consistently since Bunker Hill was attacked  KamaAina   Mar-22-11 02:13 PM   #11 
  - Very Good Point  Taverner   Mar-22-11 02:22 PM   #14 
  - Amen. I was just reading about the decades of the "Indian Wars" following the Civil War  anneboleyn   Mar-23-11 04:50 PM   #135 
  - Always seems to be a "reason" to intervene. Always seems to be in a strategic or oil rich location.  DirkGently   Mar-22-11 02:16 PM   #12 
  - yeah, an Italian friend told me:  mimitabby   Mar-22-11 02:21 PM   #13 
  - Wargasm is addicting...  Dappleganger   Mar-22-11 02:23 PM   #15 
  - Have you read John Perkins' "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man?"  in_cog_ni_to   Mar-22-11 02:25 PM   # 
  - +1000,and this is international in scope,the USA,run by the banksters,plays the role of enforcer  stockholmer   Mar-23-11 06:37 AM   #58 
  - After Perkins, Klein's Shock Doctrine.  Jackpine Radical   Mar-23-11 10:07 AM   #85 
  - I thought I was the only one who read it.  russspeakeasy   Mar-23-11 10:27 AM   #88 
     - I think it was a best-seller (NYT)  me b zola   Mar-23-11 12:56 PM   #122 
  - "And if there is one thing the USA is known for, its our war. "  Vinnie From Indy   Mar-22-11 02:25 PM   #16 
  - "the IDEA of individual liberty and a nation ruled by laws not men." seriously...  in_cog_ni_to   Mar-22-11 02:28 PM   #18 
  - Check out the Wiki page I've linked below  intaglio   Mar-23-11 05:15 AM   #41 
  - One of those is the IDEA of individual liberty and a nation ruled by laws not men.  AlbertCat   Mar-23-11 10:52 AM   #95 
  - More recently: the idea of equal rights  JDPriestly   Mar-23-11 12:34 PM   #117 
  - Starting wars IS a major definition of your nation  LiberalLovinLug   Mar-23-11 01:46 PM   #127 
  - Not Hyperbolic Nonsense  havbrush   Mar-23-11 01:52 PM   #129 
  - Only the USA is capable of Ideas..  2banon   Mar-24-11 02:43 PM   #147 
  - The facts don't lie...we can make history lie, but the facts.....  Desertrose   Mar-22-11 02:27 PM   #17 
  - You discern no differences at all in the current situation?  bobbolink   Mar-23-11 09:47 AM   #80 
     - not yet..  2banon   Mar-24-11 02:49 PM   #148 
  - It makes me sad. Always money for killing people, never money for improvement.  HughBeaumont   Mar-22-11 02:28 PM   #19 
  - The MIC grew us into an Empire  felix_numinous   Mar-22-11 02:31 PM   #20 
  - Oh yes, this empire will end, but it won't be pretty.  Quantess   Mar-23-11 12:47 AM   #37 
  - No doubt about it...  ljm2002   Mar-22-11 02:37 PM   #23 
  - There are many that say  BobbyBoring   Mar-22-11 02:50 PM   #24 
  - War Profiteers!  AnotherDreamWeaver   Mar-23-11 12:49 AM   #38 
  - Remember what happened to Paul.  MedicalAdmin   Mar-23-11 12:15 PM   #115 
  - Not to change the subject but  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 06:08 AM   #46 
  - BobbyBoring, GWB told one of the South American leaders that the way to  JDPriestly   Mar-23-11 12:44 PM   #119 
  - I can not for the life of me understand anyone that can't see the faults of their home  mrcheerful   Mar-22-11 02:55 PM   #25 
  - Everyone forgets the Flying Tigers.  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 06:18 AM   #47 
  - A country founded on a LIE.....  DeSwiss   Mar-22-11 03:00 PM   #26 
  - Yep!  Little Star   Mar-22-11 03:00 PM   #27 
  - Sometimes? n/t  hootinholler   Mar-22-11 03:07 PM   #28 
  - Somebody had to step in  JackintheGreen   Mar-22-11 03:10 PM   #29 
  - FTR It did include that  Taverner   Mar-22-11 03:41 PM   #32 
  - Then I cheerfully accept their gentle rebuke. n/t  JackintheGreen   Mar-22-11 03:51 PM   #35 
  - Even though it is true?  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 06:19 AM   #48 
  - You clearly didn't read my response  JackintheGreen   Mar-23-11 09:37 AM   #77 
  - ohh puhleeze..  2banon   Mar-24-11 03:03 PM   #149 
  - That is sadly true. It can be changed in numerous ways but unfortunately it'll  StarburstClock   Mar-22-11 03:36 PM   #30 
  - Corruption is the main factor.  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 06:22 AM   #50 
  - K'ing & R' ing a must read OP  Mimosa   Mar-22-11 03:42 PM   #33 
  - that just goes to show ya  Motown_Johnny   Mar-22-11 03:44 PM   #34 
  - Yup. We are dayum good at those two things.  AllyCat   Mar-23-11 12:26 AM   #36 
  - Since there have only been 200,000 Peace Corps members/volunteers since 1961, you are a member of a  apocalypsehow   Mar-23-11 01:10 AM   #39 
  - Have a look at this Wiki page  intaglio   Mar-23-11 05:02 AM   #40 
  - Wow, what a list.  tclambert   Mar-23-11 06:27 AM   #53 
  - thanks for that link  LittleGirl   Mar-23-11 06:57 AM   #61 
  - It's the sad truth  malaise   Mar-23-11 05:19 AM   #42 
  - There is far too much militarism  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 05:58 AM   #43 
  - We don't kill indiscriminately.  Confusious   Mar-23-11 06:02 AM   #45 
  - True.  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 06:27 AM   #52 
     - Well, to be honest....  Confusious   Mar-23-11 06:36 AM   #57 
     - Yep. How dare those brown people be sitting on OUR oil  hifiguy   Mar-23-11 09:27 AM   #74 
        - Exactly  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 10:30 AM   #89 
  - Sad but true  onlyadream   Mar-23-11 06:21 AM   #49 
  - We don't just deny, we tout our humaneness and generosity  lunatica   Mar-23-11 06:24 AM   #51 
  - Yes. It is actually hard to believe.  Enthusiast   Mar-23-11 06:31 AM   #54 
  - This is why non-violent protest can work so well.  Pacifist Patriot   Mar-23-11 09:18 AM   #72 
  - War is the Health of the State.........Randolph Bourne  stockholmer   Mar-23-11 06:31 AM   #55 
  - But when we make war, we don't hurt anybody or break anything.  tclambert   Mar-23-11 06:34 AM   #56 
  - We are. n/t  hulka38   Mar-23-11 06:37 AM   #59 
  - I'm fairly new to DU and it's people like you that keep me here. nt  Modern_Matthew   Mar-23-11 06:38 AM   #60 
  - Manifest Destiny  Citizen Worker   Mar-23-11 06:59 AM   #62 
  - Remember Ho Chi Minh?  The Wizard   Mar-23-11 08:02 AM   #64 
  - Ho begged the US for help to get the French out of Vietnam  hifiguy   Mar-23-11 09:36 AM   #76 
  - He begged Wilson, not FDR or Truman, for help.  ieoeja   Mar-23-11 10:05 AM   #84 
     - I just read McCulloch's Truman bio  hifiguy   Mar-23-11 10:42 AM   #91 
        - Yes, he did. I stopped reading when I got to the Wilson request.  ieoeja   Mar-23-11 11:03 AM   #98 
        - Ho wanted to be a US ally  The Wizard   Mar-23-11 03:53 PM   #131 
  - HoChi Minh  havbrush   Mar-24-11 02:29 PM   #146 
  - Yes, this is a sad, sad truth.  avaistheone1   Mar-23-11 08:12 AM   #65 
  - Predatory states tend to be. We have a perpetual war time economy.  mmonk   Mar-23-11 08:15 AM   #66 
  - Until people are punished for this at the ballot box it will continue.  harun   Mar-23-11 08:21 AM   #67 
  - Really?  tavalon   Mar-23-11 08:32 AM   #68 
     - We are no longer a Democracy, not even close.  harun   Mar-23-11 09:24 AM   #73 
  - Oh, we were involved in things before WWII...  Javaman   Mar-23-11 08:53 AM   #69 
  - Good post  davidthegnome   Mar-23-11 09:10 AM   #70 
  - Try teaching American history to children without feeling like it's war to war to war to war...  Pacifist Patriot   Mar-23-11 09:17 AM   #71 
  - Don't forget the drug war! it's a war "waged on their own people" too. Time for us to bomb ourselves  Gravel Democrat   Mar-23-11 10:08 AM   #86 
     - I've Been Getting Bombed In The Drug War For Years n/t  Forrest Greene   Mar-23-11 11:01 AM   #97 
     - And the war on "terrorism" which define as: We know it when we see it.  JDPriestly   Mar-23-11 12:48 PM   #120 
     - Indeed. Today I was explaining LBJ's two wars.  Pacifist Patriot   Mar-23-11 01:24 PM   #123 
  - The people of America don't control the govt and haven't for a long time.  baldguy   Mar-23-11 09:33 AM   #75 
  - A lot of Americans require an outside view  Swampguana   Mar-23-11 09:42 AM   #78 
  - Good point. Can't argue with that.  mochajava666   Mar-23-11 09:43 AM   #79 
  - The US does seem to enjoy war. nt  ZombieHorde   Mar-23-11 09:48 AM   #81 
  - "And if there is one thing the USA is known for, its our war. "  Bragi   Mar-23-11 10:00 AM   #82 
  - I had the same awakening.  The Backlash Cometh   Mar-23-11 10:00 AM   #83 
  - American exceptionalism--  Jackpine Radical   Mar-23-11 10:09 AM   #87 
  - sometimes I think Joseph Perkins was right  hfojvt   Mar-23-11 10:34 AM   #90 
  - hfpjvt. I think my country is basically good.  JDPriestly   Mar-23-11 12:52 PM   #121 
     - I think Americans are basically good. It's America I have issues with.  Pacifist Patriot   Mar-23-11 01:25 PM   #124 
  - yep  barbtries   Mar-23-11 10:42 AM   #92 
  - America IS a war-monger country.  AlbertCat   Mar-23-11 10:45 AM   #93 
  - One Small Thing That Helps  Forrest Greene   Mar-23-11 10:46 AM   #94 
  - goes waaaaay back...  Locrian   Mar-23-11 10:54 AM   #96 
  - so, the Germans were calling us warmongers? that's rich.  ReturnoftheDjedi   Mar-23-11 11:06 AM   #99 
  - Why?  Bragi   Mar-23-11 11:08 AM   #101 
  - This American is calling Amerika: War Monger - Deal with That!  2banon   Mar-24-11 03:11 PM   #150 
  - If any other country attacked as many countries as we have  Curtis   Mar-23-11 11:07 AM   #100 
  - Ever since the Vietnam War, the way that militarism is considered "patriotic"  Lydia Leftcoast   Mar-23-11 11:17 AM   #103 
  - If we were a warmongering nation would we have a nobel laureate as president?  WatsonT   Mar-23-11 11:20 AM   #104 
  - Rec  RMBEBBP   Mar-23-11 11:20 AM   #105 
  - And another one.....  femrap   Mar-23-11 11:24 AM   #106 
  - We send all of our old weapons out into the world  raouldukelives   Mar-23-11 11:29 AM   #107 
  - I'm tired of it being called Defense.  obxhead   Mar-23-11 11:30 AM   #108 
  - The British War Museum was an eye opener for me  Snoutport   Mar-23-11 11:32 AM   #109 
  - I was hoping that with President Obama in office all of this would change.  Xenotime   Mar-23-11 11:32 AM   #110 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-23-11 01:43 PM   #126 
  - Germans calling another country  liberalhistorian   Mar-23-11 12:06 PM   #112 
  - Chutzpah =/= "Full of Shit"  demwing   Mar-23-11 12:11 PM   #114 
  - Bout time you came around to the truth. Not happy that  OwnedByFerrets   Mar-23-11 12:07 PM   #113 
  - Well I grew up during the western TV craze and by my teens I realized that it  mrcheerful   Mar-23-11 12:30 PM   #116 
     - Had I know the facts about "Columbus" when in high school,  OwnedByFerrets   Mar-24-11 06:17 PM   #151 
        - Yeah should have seen my history teachers face when I pointed out the fact that ole Chris not only  mrcheerful   Mar-24-11 06:29 PM   #152 
           - Those are just fun facts. Once you learn that good ole Chris  OwnedByFerrets   Mar-25-11 06:20 PM   #153 
  - Germans calling anyone a war monger causes me to giggle.  deaniac21   Mar-23-11 01:52 PM   #128 
  - Me too. Since 1945 they have become very circumspect, but not before. For centuries  anneboleyn   Mar-23-11 04:57 PM   #137 
     - Not particularly so  WatsonT   Mar-24-11 09:17 AM   #145 
  - Call it at "empire" for that IS what it is.  RedCloud   Mar-23-11 01:56 PM   #130 
  - Seems to me the Germans know something about the outcome of war mongering.  CTyankee   Mar-23-11 03:57 PM   #132 
  - The irony is that they didn't learn it after WWI.  anneboleyn   Mar-23-11 04:58 PM   #138 
     - Well, that was a different war. WW I was fought over colonial territories.  CTyankee   Mar-23-11 06:37 PM   #140 
     - The harsh terms of their surrender explain that /nt  Bragi   Mar-24-11 07:41 AM   #143 
  - I wonder what happens when we run out of countries that have bad guys as leaders  TNLib   Mar-23-11 04:33 PM   #133 
  - This is a good question. But I don't think we need to fear any dictator of a country without oil  CTyankee   Mar-23-11 06:38 PM   #141 
  - Soo Next time your German friends talk about how America is a war monger  DFab420   Mar-23-11 04:42 PM   #134 
  - Not to mention the Germanic tribes vs. the Roman Empire  anneboleyn   Mar-23-11 05:00 PM   #139 
  - I don't automatically assume that the Germans "forgot" anything. I think they learned a brutal  CTyankee   Mar-24-11 07:39 AM   #142 
  - It is because war makes certain people really rich...  YellowRubberDuckie   Mar-23-11 04:57 PM   #136 
  - Secret societies role in cultural imperialism?  Mosaic   Mar-24-11 08:49 AM   #144 

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