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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Yes.
Edited on Sat Feb-05-11 03:02 PM by Gregorian
Just seeing that Oregon had become a tree farm. Monoculture. as enough to send me packing.

I should share something. I just hired a "landscaper" to help me with my ranch. I bought a seriously messed up timber property. Clearcut three times in the last century. This man is from Germany. He was taught by the old school artisans who lived through WW1. We're taking areas that are completely bare, and eroding, and turning them around. It's the most amazing schooling I've had in a long time. I'm taking pieces of forest from a healthy section, and transplanting them into other more vulnerable areas. We're working to stop erosion, and rebuild the forest. At least this little piece of it. This man lives without refrigeration, I think I already mentioned in another post. That alone is pretty amazing. But he has a philosophy. To begin living properly on a personal level. And to begin turning the planet around one tiny bit at a time. I am convinced there is no way in hell we're pulling out of this without massive suffering. But this little ray of light is the first I've seen. I've never met anyone who can do this. Landscaping in the western way of thinking is just brute force. Jam a plant here and there. This man has vision. He sees what is already there. He simply follows what is already there. It's not that what he's doing will even have an impact that will do any good. But it's that I see someone doing good stuff. Being and doing good. Not stuffing a stupid CFL into a socket. It's a reversal of where we have been going. It's the direction that he's going. Rather than trying to sustain what isn't working, he is turning around and saying that we can go back, and we can survive without ruining this phenomenal place.

I don't know. It's just a good feeling. But more than that, at some point we will have to begin living in a way that has less impact. It may be just a few people left after some disaster. People trying to farm lands with limited water, and higher temperatures. Billions already gone. Somewhere along the line we will be surviving. This is just a glimpse into how that might work out.
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  -For those who don't see overpopulation as a problem... Taverner  Feb-04-11 01:24 PM   #0 
  - Yep, all true!!! n/t  RKP5637   Feb-04-11 01:28 PM   #1 
  - Very true. But we will run out of potable water before we run out of food.  loudsue   Feb-04-11 01:29 PM   #2 
  - You beat me to it!  arcane1   Feb-04-11 01:30 PM   #3 
     - I've never heard the potable water crash problem explained  Taverner   Feb-04-11 01:52 PM   #16 
        - Supposedly it's due to climate change, but I suspect it has more to  cutlassmama   Feb-04-11 02:17 PM   # 
           - Well if the rain is safe to drink  Taverner   Feb-04-11 02:21 PM   #26 
  - It's the really big elephant  texastoast   Feb-04-11 01:32 PM   #4 
  - China has taken action!  Thrustin   Feb-06-11 12:05 PM   #107 
  - Dictator!  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 01:33 PM   #5 
  - Nope, the population should be half of what it is now.  tabatha   Feb-04-11 01:37 PM   #6 
  - Or a plague will hit that reduces the population. This is a huge fear, hence swine flu pandemonium.  Pisces   Feb-04-11 01:48 PM   #11 
  - To the planet, the human race is a self-limiting problem  MH1   Feb-06-11 02:38 PM   #112 
  - This is how Idiocracy is born...  JuniperLea   Feb-04-11 01:43 PM   #8 
  - I know.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 02:02 PM   #17 
  - Anyone that's been around here for a while knows  underseasurveyor   Feb-04-11 02:07 PM   #19 
  - Wow.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 02:22 PM   #27 
     - I've seen this first hand in my short life (I'm 40)  Taverner   Feb-04-11 02:25 PM   #28 
     - I grew up in Palo Alto.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 02:44 PM   #34 
     - I have experienced and seen what you speak of.  underseasurveyor   Feb-04-11 10:45 PM   #81 
     - I'm so grateful.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 10:54 PM   #82 
        - Perhaps you've heard of OSP.  underseasurveyor   Feb-04-11 11:06 PM   #83 
     - Me too, although I confess I don't post about it much.  MH1   Feb-06-11 02:43 PM   #114 
  - Me too...  JuniperLea   Feb-04-11 02:18 PM   #25 
  - The solution to that is to  vim876   Feb-04-11 04:51 PM   #55 
  - Or some of us can opt to have none  csziggy   Feb-05-11 12:55 AM   #85 
  - Every time I hear this argument I think of this:  Hello_Kitty   Feb-04-11 05:59 PM   #69 
  - I must confess: I have 2 kids  Taverner   Feb-04-11 02:42 PM   #33 
     - In the UK, The Optimum Population Trust has "Stop at Two" as it's slogan  muriel_volestrangler   Feb-04-11 03:07 PM   #39 
        - I like the slogan.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 04:29 PM   #51 
  - Water and other utility systems are antiquated too...  JuniperLea   Feb-04-11 01:40 PM   #7 
  - You begin with "if" and that's where it collapses.  aquart   Feb-04-11 01:45 PM   #9 
  - Changed 'if' to 'as'  Taverner   Feb-04-11 01:50 PM   #14 
  - Simple math, really  HereSince1628   Feb-04-11 01:47 PM   #10 
  - That's a reasonable formula  Newest Reality   Feb-04-11 02:40 PM   #31 
     - The thing is humans have multiple impacts, pick any value to represent that  HereSince1628   Feb-04-11 02:54 PM   #36 
        - Gardening species  tama   Feb-04-11 06:00 PM   #70 
           - I think I need to know what you think gardening means.  HereSince1628   Feb-04-11 06:41 PM   #76 
              - Yup  tama   Feb-04-11 06:55 PM   #77 
  - In terms of long-term sustainability, the population should probably be around 2 billion people.  Spider Jerusalem   Feb-04-11 01:49 PM   #12 
  - There are solutions  gratuitous   Feb-04-11 01:50 PM   #13 
  - There is the The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement...  Xenotime   Feb-07-11 01:06 PM   #123 
  - Let's just cut to the bottom line. Overpopulation will cause the death of the planet and species.  sinkingfeeling   Feb-04-11 01:51 PM   #15 
  - It may. It is. But I have always thought it would be a slow agonizing crash into  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 02:08 PM   #20 
  - ditto  stuntcat   Feb-04-11 04:09 PM   #50 
  - Every institution that we've built has had,  The2ndWheel   Feb-04-11 02:02 PM   #18 
  - I agree with most of your very eloquent response  Taverner   Feb-04-11 02:13 PM   #21 
  - If you remember Thomas Malthus...  InvisibleTouch   Feb-04-11 02:14 PM   #22 
  - People are too quick to discount Malthus because of the green rev  Taverner   Feb-04-11 02:17 PM   #24 
     - The GR ended in 1980. So did exponential population growth.  GliderGuider   Feb-04-11 03:12 PM   #41 
  - The basic assumption  tama   Feb-04-11 02:15 PM   #23 
  - So let me get this right  Taverner   Feb-04-11 02:29 PM   #29 
  - You said that, not me  tama   Feb-04-11 04:42 PM   #53 
  - I would like to agree with that. But here is what I see as one of the problems.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 02:36 PM   #30 
  - Just take a look at what would happen if a city doubled its population  Taverner   Feb-04-11 02:41 PM   #32 
  - I know an engineer at the Marin sewage treatment facility.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 02:51 PM   #35 
     - So much of the bay area infrastructure is taken for granted  Taverner   Feb-04-11 03:22 PM   #44 
  - A small correction - population growth is no longer exponential, because of the food supply  GliderGuider   Feb-04-11 03:10 PM   #40 
  - It's exponential by virtue of it's biological process, no?  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 03:29 PM   #45 
  - No, actually it's not.  GliderGuider   Feb-04-11 03:46 PM   #46 
     - I think that model is called logistical growth.  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 04:40 PM   #52 
        - In logistical growth the increase diminishes more and more  GliderGuider   Feb-04-11 05:34 PM   #62 
           - Betting  tama   Feb-04-11 06:38 PM   #74 
           - Are you basing some of this upon the Bosch Haber cycle?  Gregorian   Feb-04-11 09:28 PM   #79 
              - No, my analysis isn't that detailed - it's less about the trees and more about the forest.  GliderGuider   Feb-05-11 07:39 AM   #88 
                 - That is exactly what I meant.  Gregorian   Feb-05-11 12:03 PM   #91 
                    - The effects I talk about are in addition to the ones you've noticed  GliderGuider   Feb-05-11 12:38 PM   #94 
                       - Yes.  Gregorian   Feb-05-11 02:58 PM   #97 
                          - It's wonderful to have men like that acting as examples.  GliderGuider   Feb-05-11 05:02 PM   #99 
                          - I have good friends also  tama   Feb-06-11 06:06 AM   #101 
                             - I'm amazed at the article you have posted here.  Gregorian   Feb-06-11 11:54 AM   #106 
                                - Thank you for being :)  tama   Feb-06-11 02:18 PM   #111 
                                - A poem by Cavafy  tama   Feb-07-11 05:13 AM   #117 
                                   - I have been lucky.  Gregorian   Feb-07-11 11:50 AM   #120 
                                      - By all means  tama   Feb-08-11 03:34 PM   #125 
  - Consumerisim  tama   Feb-04-11 04:56 PM   #57 
  - To put it short  tama   Feb-04-11 05:48 PM   #68 
     - Thanks  Gregorian   Feb-05-11 12:20 PM   #92 
        - Collective mental disorder  tama   Feb-05-11 01:47 PM   #95 
           - That's so good to hear.  Gregorian   Feb-05-11 03:08 PM   #98 
  - But, for the world, consumption per capita is increasing, not decreasing  muriel_volestrangler   Feb-04-11 03:54 PM   #48 
     - AFAIK (from other stats)  tama   Feb-04-11 05:04 PM   #59 
        - That data goes from 1980 (63.7m btu/person) to 2006 (72.4m)  muriel_volestrangler   Feb-04-11 05:43 PM   #65 
           - It's not a recession  tama   Feb-04-11 06:13 PM   #72 
  - Issue of the Millennium  Spyderama   Feb-04-11 02:56 PM   #37 
  - I don't disagree with most of your post.  Celeborn Skywalker   Feb-04-11 03:07 PM   #38 
  - Yes, you are correct there  Taverner   Feb-04-11 03:19 PM   #43 
     - global fertility rate = 2.5 children per woman & declining. US, with about 5% of world population,  Hannah Bell   Feb-07-11 05:49 AM   #119 
        - Great post. nt  raccoon   Feb-07-11 12:09 PM   #122 
  - If the Ruling Class stopped profiting off energy and food....  leftstreet   Feb-04-11 03:12 PM   #42 
  - I think it's a problem, but I don't think it will be a problem for much longer.  GliderGuider   Feb-04-11 03:50 PM   #47 
  - geezer here...  alterfurz   Feb-04-11 04:05 PM   #49 
  - number of children decreasing in u.s. higher educated and wealth, fewer children. you want to go  seabeyond   Feb-04-11 04:43 PM   #54 
  - That's the 800 lb gorilla in the corner, isn't it?  WildEyedLiberal   Feb-05-11 12:21 PM   #93 
     - exactly. and note, you are the first to respond, lol. better to "pretend" otherwise.  seabeyond   Feb-05-11 02:30 PM   #96 
     - Therein the eugenics discussion enters the room  AngryAmish   Feb-06-11 06:19 AM   #103 
        - I don't want to "cull" anyone  WildEyedLiberal   Feb-06-11 10:04 PM   #116 
  - It's at the base of most of our other global problems.  arbusto_baboso   Feb-04-11 04:52 PM   #56 
  - No. Without competition for profit, our resources would be just fine n/t  leftstreet   Feb-04-11 05:05 PM   #60 
  - "Without competition for profit"....  arbusto_baboso   Feb-04-11 05:36 PM   #63 
     - Every sunset, every night  tama   Feb-04-11 06:40 PM   #75 
  - For those who don't see quantitative thinking  tama   Feb-04-11 05:34 PM   #61 
     - Given that the majority of people are fear-based in their decision making...  arbusto_baboso   Feb-04-11 05:38 PM   #64 
        - Just more quantitative thinking  tama   Feb-04-11 06:35 PM   #73 
  - Somebody tell the Duggars...  DLine   Feb-04-11 04:59 PM   #58 
  - The solution to overpopulation is clear  customerserviceguy   Feb-04-11 05:44 PM   #66 
  - lol's I like it  stuntcat   Feb-05-11 07:19 AM   #87 
  - Over population is the basic problem to most all our troubles.  RC   Feb-04-11 05:47 PM   #67 
  - There should be tax incentives for not breeding, yet it's the other way around. Plus,  Shagbark Hickory   Feb-04-11 06:09 PM   #71 
  - So you think kids shouldn't get all that?  Celeborn Skywalker   Feb-04-11 07:16 PM   #78 
     - Well........  Shagbark Hickory   Feb-04-11 10:43 PM   #80 
        - Or...  vim876   Feb-06-11 06:10 AM   #102 
           - That might be a solution but obiviously that's a pretty general statement without much detail on how  Shagbark Hickory   Feb-06-11 09:00 AM   #104 
  - I'm a reluctant Malthusian myself.  TroubleMan   Feb-05-11 12:42 AM   #84 
  - Yep... I have been saying it for years... we have to stop growing... but the capitalist system  Jokinomx   Feb-05-11 02:10 AM   #86 
  - yes.  stuntcat   Feb-05-11 07:41 AM   #89 
  - The population in the US is only growing because of immigration.  lumberjack_jeff   Feb-05-11 10:14 AM   #90 
  - Look - it doesn't matter where it comes from  Taverner   Feb-05-11 05:24 PM   #100 
  - As has been said, climate change will take care of the problem.  KillCapitalism   Feb-06-11 09:31 AM   #105 
  - the planet could do with 5 billion less humans  Mudoria   Feb-06-11 12:16 PM   #108 
  - Who do you wish to kill? Or at least sterilize?  AngryAmish   Feb-07-11 05:30 AM   #118 
  - Soylent Green is people  jcboon   Feb-06-11 12:32 PM   #109 
  - We must reduce our population or Mother Nature will do it for us.  Odin2005   Feb-06-11 12:46 PM   #110 
  - Rev, Malthus, you have been proven right so many times.  AngryAmish   Feb-06-11 04:44 PM   #115 
  - Tell the Pope.  Warren DeMontague   Feb-06-11 02:41 PM   #113 
  - People in industrialized nations use a heckuva lot more resources than those in  raccoon   Feb-07-11 12:08 PM   #121 
  - Americans have the largest carbon footprint in the world.  Xenotime   Feb-07-11 01:07 PM   #124 
  - overpopulation as it pertains to reproduction rates IS a problem in certain parts of the world.  Warren DeMontague   Feb-08-11 03:37 PM   #126 

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